Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Amrun]

I exist. Let me catch up. Fair warning I am entirely canon ignorant.

[Amrun]

Posts that jumped out at me and why.

VOTE: MattP

Nope not doing theory discussion today

I already have my lynchlist. You guys are so transparent.

-o

Selkies elaborate. Also I really want to keep my vote on Matt right now but youir 30 is making it hard for me.

VOTE: Demon

Better?

This exchange makes me suspicious of Selkies. Selkies is trying to shut down discussion for no valid reason. Plus, like Demon, I am immediately suspicious of them promising a "lynch list" and then not delivering or mentioning it again.

Later on, in reading, Selkies does elaborate a bit on why they didn't like the theory post, but it doesn't put me off from my original gut reaction. His stance, while more clearly stated, still makes little sense.

I already have my lynchlist. You guys are so transparent.

LYNCH ALL LIARS!!!!

vote: selkies

This is a bad try at RVS when there's already plenty of content to discuss. Later on, Nero emphasises this by saying he actually has a town read on Selkie, but offers no more content because "it's RVS." This strikes me as odd, especially for Nero who tends to be an aggressive player.

Wake me up when RVS is over

- f

This is a useless post in the same way that Nero's was useless; it doesn't even attempt to move the game along. I am not familiar with this player, though, so I can't draw any conclusions from this post alone.

Can you take a fucking stance wow, is your vote on Matt right now random or because what?

You and Matt are my scummiest reads (as I have been stating basically this whole game so far).

Stance on what?

Matt is null but I think I can figure him out.

Why are we a scumread again

This post pinged my scumdar hard. Demon is right on the money that Selkies is saying a lot without having any firm opinions, and this post (while it gets points for being unapologetic about it) only makes matters worse.

Matt is null, but I'm voting him while criticizing others for not voting scum reads, "but I think we can figure him out."

Tell me, HOW is making a vote and then declaring that you only read him as null going to help you "figure him out?" You haven't engaged Matt in any way. You are NOT trying to figure him out.

And early image consciousness.

Yup, definitely liking Selkie for scum at this point.

eh, Matt's vt claim is prob some sort of gambit as he supposedly does them as either alignment.

I tend to treat such tactics as townish, since attention whoring reaction tests, while can be done by scum, don't usually get done because they attract attention and require an amount of...sticking your neck out and misinterpretation.

That said, could you link me to some scum meta where he's pulled off this gambit?

This is a HUGELY waffling post. "I tend to treat such tactics as townISH, but quick, give me an excuse not to!"

As far as scum go, I'm not liking Nero Cain too much for town. And milkshake's entrance was a little unsettling as well.

This Milkshake wagon is going a bit fast and its making me worry...

(while fery murders bolivian children...)

Nero, if Milkshake flips town, who's scum?

I actually really like this response by Selkies. It's exactly what I would have asked.

Nero's original question pings my gut as scum with the combination of arrogance and distancing himself from a wagon he's on (which scum tend to do when they're on town wagons). That being said, arrogance can also be town indigence, and town are more likely to take a post by an opponent that names themselves and someone else as scum and poo-poo the other person's leading wagon.

Which brings me to the wagon itself.

I don't agree with the majority, it seems. Milkshake strikes me as town, and I absolutely followed her reasoning. She 'sa little hesitant and awkward but I think that's just posting style.

She was picking up on some things from Nero that I also picked up on (hesitance to commit to an opinion) and while she seemed to view this less negatively than me, she was harrying Nero to commit just the same, which is what I would have done in her shoes.

And how Nero only voted milkshake after Matt struck me as a bit disingenuous, though I'm still on the fence about him.

This Milkshake wagon is going a bit fast and its making me worry...

The odds of one scum being on that wagon are good. Probably Milk's buddies if she's scum are treating her like a toxic asset hoping for a later deflection off the wagon, and if she does unlikely flip town...well, then at least one or two scum are making that push. SOO's vote seems to be a follow the leader vote--I've got my eyes on him and Nic next for scum.

If milk is town, then Ghostlin is a good bet for scum. Notice the casual cognitive dissonance in this post. Milk is "unlikely" to flip town, but SOO's "follow the leader" vote is suspect? Treating her as town while calling her scum.

I dont' understand this, and I would have asked the same question. It's not protown to sit on your ass like you were, leaving your vote on a person you think is *town*. It seems a legitimate question, and I don't see why it's scummy at all. It didn't seem to me like milk was trying to bait you into voting Matt, rather it was an honest question as to why your posts seemed contradictory

So I should have just switched my vote over and over like you did? Why are you so upset over a RVS vote? This also looks like mad backtracking here. In 97 you guys did vote for Milk, so if you thought it was a legit question and not scummy at why, what were you guys doing voting Milk?

As per 115, you joined this Milkshake wagon to "get information" which I don't exactly buy. This also makes 115 look like a lie since you claimed that I was NOT your #1 suspect and yet you are now claiming that what Milk did in 75, 79 and 81 was not scummy. So you're basing your entire Milkshake scum read on 72? Ok but if you actually believed that Milk was scum why then do you not think that 75, 79, 81 were not from a scum perspective?

But then on page 6

milkshake's page 4 posts ping pretty hard.

So to the other head does think 75, 79 and 81 were scummy....

Hydra dis is more annoying than scummy but could deff be used as a scum tactic.

The was no contradiction in my post. I have no reason to consider a Matt P lynch (other than utility) today and me claiming that I might consider him a viable lynch candidate down the road has nothing to do with today.

I like this post by Nero, conflicting me further.

My gut right now says town, but I don't listen to it.

Even on D1? Whyever not?

These were addressed while I was reading through but after I popped them into notepad, but I'll leave 'em in for emphasis.

Also see a scum-mentality from 87.

Looks neutral to me, and I play scum a lot. How is that scum-thinking?

This is dumb as hell considering it was, y'know, nero cain that had his vote sitting on a townread.

Nero went from an RVS read to a stated scum read. I don't see him voting a town read ever.

Actually, he said Selkies was a townread and then continued to keep his RVS vote on them for a while. So he did. Just correcting.

I don't mind Ghostlin's last post. I find it somewhat good. I still think Ghostlin is scum. I think it is quite telling that all he/she summons all of his/her resources NOW, when someone has voted him/her. Also, although the post contained good logic on points unrelated to Ghostlin's alignment, the parts pertaining to my points about alignment were not good arguments.

From this perspective, literally every discussion with two viewpoints is a schoolyard argument. This point from Ghostlin, intended to refute my reasons for thinking that he is scum, is vaporous.

I like this larger post by milkshake a lot, and it goes a long way to demonstrate why I think milkshake is being genuine and therefore town. Ghostlin is milkshake's top suspect at a time when milkshake is leading in votes, and yet he says, "I find [Ghostlin's last post] somewhat good." I follow his reasoning 100% on the post in question as well.

opps, forgot this.

Also, Nero, do you often try to find buddies this early like you did in #120?

Yes. I don't think there's any reason to not speculate.

Can I have a tiny chunk of your meta as town doing that?

NO!!! I'm too lazy to go through my games and quote all the times that I've said "these players are buddies, etc. Its tedious and uneeded so you can either trust me or go look at my past games. Also, I've played with several of the players in this game, most notably Iece, Thad and Matt, I think they'll vouch that I don't shy away from suspecting multiple people at the same time.

I can vouch that the behavior in question is normal for Nero Cain.

[Amrun]

My top two scumreads are Ghostlin and Selkies. NC I am conflicted about.

However, even though there is more evidence against Selkies (and also some that conflicts it), my gut sings more strongly for Ghostlin.

Vote: Ghostlin

[Amrun]

I'll always be wary of Matt. Him lying/gambiting/reaction fishing is null but I'd strongly consider his lynch in a few days if we seem to not be hitting on scum. My vote is on Selk and yea it was RVS.

I wouldn't consider a Selk lynch at all.

I haven't found anything to yell at yet hence why I'm sitting on my RVS.

I interpreted that as a town read, as only people I read as town are people I "wouldn't consider a lynch at all."

[Amrun]

I understand how you or someone else might see it that way, but I don't. It's that simple.

I see it as a perhaps-misguided move that is easily exploitable by scum (and may be misinterpreted by town).

But to attempt to address it beyond the simple disagreement, your voiced opinion on Matt was fairly useless / noncommittal in and of itself, and your vote on Selk was a self-avowed RVS vote that you had no intent of pursuing. If they were scumbuddies, as you posit, your vote presented no threat and therefore required no transparent machinations.

[Amrun]

Yes, scum like to bus, but the way you phrased it framed milkshake as town while you were saying the opposite.

[Amrun]

The amount of times you don't get it is kind of funny, Ghostlin.

[Amrun]

I didn't say you were hiding anything. You clearly don't have any clue what I'm saying. I think that others will, so I won't bother with it anymore.

[Amrun]

@Ghostlin: You didn't actually ask me a question.

@Nero Cain: I am open to the possibility.

[Amrun]

Why do you think milk and selk are grouped together? I find that unlikely, though not impossible.

[Amrun]

Ghostlin, if you mean that they're sucking up to me and I suspect them, well, yes, that's true, but I haven't decided if it's genuine or not. It's something scum might do to town that enters the game strong and it's also something town might do with a town read, so...

[Amrun]

Please tell me what you saw, Ghostlin.

[Amrun]

Summarize your opinion of Selkies for me, Ghostlin.

[Amrun]

I'm more concerned with Ghostlin atm, and I was waiting for you to give some semblance of reply to my post that featured you, which you have so far failed to do.

And it is my experience that engaging with disorganized hydra such as yourself is fairly unproductive. That being said, when the time is right, I will engage as I see fit.

[Amrun]

I did actually ask you a question that you didn't answer, though.

[Amrun]

This post pinged my scumdar hard. Demon is right on the money that Selkies is saying a lot without having any firm opinions, and this post (while it gets points for being unapologetic about it) only makes matters worse.

Matt is null, but I'm voting him while criticizing others for not voting scum reads, "but I think we can figure him out."

Tell me, HOW is making a vote and then declaring that you only read him as null going to help you "figure him out?" You haven't engaged Matt in any way. You are NOT trying to figure him out.

And early image consciousness.

Yup, definitely liking Selkie for scum at this point.

What firm opinions do you want me to have on like page 3

That's why I throw my vote around and see what sticks. To establish those firm opinions.

In retrospect, my answer to that question probably wasn't optimal wrt scumhunting or determining Matt's alliance. But I was asked it straight up by a person who was scumreading me, so I thought it best to be honest in that situation.

Anyways, you've shown it to be bad town play, but not scummy. Where's the scum intention?

You can have an unfirm opinion on page 3, but you were trying to weasel out of saying anything one way or another until you were asked directly. The scum motivation is not committing to a stance early on so you can take whatever stance is most advantageous later on. The most dangerous thing scum can do is take an early arbitrary stance.

1) No, I'm voting for Milk because a push on a claimed VT is pretty terrible, actually.

Wait why

Why is a push on a p1 claimed VT by a person with a meta of claiming VT "terrible"

Agree with this. It's NOT terrible ... at all.

[Amrun]

I haven't caught up since my last post, but...

V/LA until Sunday or Monday (probably Monday)

[Amrun]

You can have an unfirm opinion on page 3, but you were trying to weasel out of saying anything one way or another until you were asked directly. The scum motivation is not committing to a stance early on so you can take whatever stance is most advantageous later on. The most dangerous thing scum can do is take an early arbitrary stance.

Well, no.

I have unfirm opinions on page 3. There's no point in me voicing them because they're next to useless. I wasn't trying to weasel out of it--see here, you contradict yourself. I didn't want to say what my stance on Matt was, but once again, Demon was getting very irritated with us and we were townreading him and so in that situation, I wanted to be honest.

I use all my votes in RVS as reaction tests. I try to stir stuff up so I have something to work with (and bring us out of RVS). Demon's vote helped me in getting a read on him. However, when I voted Matt, Matt just...left. So that was not my intention, and gave me nothing wrt information about his alliance.

I didn't want to say blatantly that Matt was a scumread, especially since this hydra is coming off a game where we got a lot of flak for fakeclaiming PGO as innocent child, and Matt wasn't really a scumread. And like you said, if we said that voting Matt was a reaction test, it would negate the point of the reaction test. So what the fuck was I supposed to do? I went with trying to quell Demon a little by giving him the truth. So obviously, that wasn't pro-town play, but it was pro-me, and I'm town, so I'm still moderately content about how that went down.

Anything more?

Saying you were trying to weasel out of it is not contradicting myself even if you disagree that's what you were doing. (??) You admit in the NEXT SENTENCE that you didn't want to say what you stance on Matt was, so I was 100% correct!

I understand the reaction test explanation, and acknowledge its validity, but that self preservationist attitude is ABSOLUTELY what I picked out early on, and it's scummy as hell. There were lots of other ways to respond to a potentially ruined reaction test than that.

Still like my SoO vote, waiting on more substance.

This Milkshake wagon is going a bit fast and its making me worry...

The odds of one scum being on that wagon are good. Probably Milk's buddies if she's scum are treating her like a toxic asset hoping for a later deflection off the wagon, and if she does unlikely flip town...well, then at least one or two scum are making that push. SOO's vote seems to be a follow the leader vote--I've got my eyes on him and Nic next for scum.

If milk is town, then Ghostlin is a good bet for scum. Notice the casual cognitive dissonance in this post. Milk is "unlikely" to flip town, but SOO's "follow the leader" vote is suspect? Treating her as town while calling her scum.

This is a complete mis-representation of the quoted post. I don't see any cognitive dissonance. He didn't say anywhere that Milk is unlikely to flip town, he said in the unlikely event that Milk were to flip town, which actually means the opposite of what you are trying to present here Amrun. Care to comment with that in mind?

Also the fact that Ghostlin explained himself and you

still

refused to listen, but instead tried to make Ghost look like the fool, makes me think you mis-repped that post on purpose.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about. A) Saying that "Milk is unlikely to flip town" is EXACTLY THE SAME as Milk flipping town being an "unlikely event" and if you seriously think those things are opposites then you are, in fact, sniffing glue.

Ghostlin's explanation failed for the same reason your objection does. It doesn't understand what I have issue with. I am not saying that Ghostlin didn't say Milkshake was scummy in his eyes. He clearly DID, which is what he argues in the post you quoted. What he does, however, is call milkshake scum while TREATING milkshake as he might treat town. In other words, it's more how he worded it that makes me think he's not being entirely forthright about his thoughts on milkshake.

fact that YOU think WE think you are that stupid might indicate that there was actually a possibility of you being that stupid, because the knowledge is actually there in your mind. You're just smart enough to ignore it.[/quote]

What is this round about theory about Ghostlin being stupid? This post makes no sense to me, not to mention you called him stupid and smart all in one paragraph...

You need to step up your reading comprehension if you think that post called Ghostlin stupid in any way at all. (Hint: it didn't.) I know it wasn't my post, but what the fuck. (Also I think milkshake has already responded - forgive me if not.)

Other head checking in. I'm a total moron that thought he had posted the post he had written, didn't bother to check it did post, and went la-de-da on a weekend of booze and moving houses.

I have one main thing to add here. Why the fuck has nobody noticed this yet?

Posts that jumped out at me and why.

VOTE: MattP

Nope not doing theory discussion today

I already have my lynchlist. You guys are so transparent.

-o

Selkies elaborate. Also I really want to keep my vote on Matt right now but youir 30 is making it hard for me.

VOTE: Demon

Better?

This exchange makes me suspicious of Selkies. Selkies is trying to shut down discussion for no valid reason. Plus, like Demon, I am immediately suspicious of them promising a "lynch list" and then not delivering or mentioning it again.

Later on, in reading, Selkies does elaborate a bit on why they didn't like the theory post, but it doesn't put me off from my original gut reaction. His stance, while more clearly stated, still makes little sense.

Post 15 was prior to game's start. Amrun, why are you (and Demon same question, really) using pre-game jokes as a way to try and build a serious case on Selkies?

Are you kidding me? It's literally like you don't read at all. What made me SUSPICIOUS of Selkies was the EXCHANGE I quoted. The pre-game post only piqued my interest in a way that none of the other pre-game posts did not. It is the type of things you look for in RVS to start the game rolling. Selkies' later response and follow up (or lack thereof) to this post is what is suspicious.


As for the other content...

Ghostlin's response to my last question is how I thought he would respond, and it is suspicious. His basic response to me IS to try and suck up to me and appeal to my suspicion of "top suspect that isn't Ghostlin" which is very self-preservationist.

However, his later aggression makes me think slightly better of him. I think his attack is a bit silly, but the fact that he's making it is a bit aggressive. I know for sure I have nailed Ghostlin as scum before but I don't remember when/where so I don't know if this is based on anything or I am making it up. >.>

[Amrun]

that if I called milkshake 100% scum some asshat'd reason there'd be no way I could know that unless I was scum, or so someone would reason. Your. Reasoning. Is. Bullshit. There. I've fucking said it.

It's because you don't even remotely understand my reasoning. I don't want or expect you to say anyone is 100% scum, or town, or whatever.

I'm trying to think of how to better explain it but I can't think of a good way, and you're not the one I'm trying to convince anyway so it doesn't really matter.

As for Beli, it made almost NO impression on me. I thought your attacks were stretches, but I didn't find the post themselves good either.

[Amrun]

MATT

YOU HAVEN'T ADDRESSED ME

OR MOST PEOPLE

AND IT UPSETS ME

[Amrun]

Not exactly getting fuzzy feelings from Amrun. I feel like town would be more willing to elaborate on their arguments/points and get more of a feel for what the other person is saying. Can't tell if genuine frustration is warranted from the Ghost-Amrun back and forth, so.

Are you kidding? I am willing to elaborate on my arguments, and I know perfectly what Ghostlin is saying. Anyone that tries to convince someone to lynch themselves is just stupid.

Can anyone who is familiar with Iecerint chime in with some meta?

In short, he always plays like this. He is extremely analytical.

Ghost being town also makes me worry about amrun

OH HOW PREDICTABLE. Hahahaha.

None of your original "town feelings" for me had ANYTHING at all to do with Ghostlin, but I was generally received positively so your view was positive too. As soon as you see a foothold, you "worry." You're scum. K. Moving on.


Someone asked me (Demon, I think) why self preservation is scummy. That is like mafia 101. Self preservation has always, and will always, be scummy. Not that town should be leaping on the sword, but there's a different mindset to being town and self preservation isn't part of it.


And as for Demon, your hypocrisy is ridiculous. You want to lynch Beli for acting like he's part of scumhunting when he isn't, and you can't even be arsed to read the game and have the gall to act like you're contributing to scumhunting in any meaningful manner. (Hint: you are not.)

[Amrun]

Of course it's somewhat situational. However, early on day 1 when you're not even close to being a leading wagon is one of those times when it's completely scummy. The time in question, in fact, was what, like page 2? Someone freaking out on page 2 because they might look scummy doesn't scream SCUM to you? Seriously?

And I never said that the two gameplays are SYNONYMOUS, just that refusing to read the game is at least equally as unhelpful as anything you are accusing Belphi of atm.

I happen to have a townread on you, which makes it doubly annoying.

[Amrun]

SOMEONE said self preservation isn't scummy (must not have been you, Demon).

I would put Beli on the scum side of null at the moment, and for the reasons you say as opposed to some other arguments brought against him. I wouldn't OPPOSE his lynch, but I wouldn't prefer it over several others.

Selkies, I tend to change my approach to the game with each new game. Sometimes, I play excessively transparently, sometimes not, sometimes in between. I try not to be predictable. Sometimes that leads to bad games but so be it. In this case, I don't think I'm being particularly obtuse.

[Amrun]

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum

i kind of forget what happened in the name of the wind

and i vaguely remember that it was horrible

and/or i didn't read it

>.>

[Amrun]

That was a p awful time of my life. Computer-dictated break from mafia came at a good time.

[Amrun]

I vaguely remember that my cousin was murdered during the playing of that game. So yeah.

[Amrun]

If milk is town, then Ghostlin is a good bet for scum. Notice the casual cognitive dissonance in this post. Milk is "unlikely" to flip town, but SOO's "follow the leader" vote is suspect? Treating her as town while calling her scum.

I'll have a go at explaining this again.

Milk is unlikely to flip town, ie is likely to flip scum.

But the way he talks about SoO's vote treats milkshake as town. I have never seen someone call a scum vote a "follow the leader" vote. Later, Ghostlin tries to explain this, iirc, but the original wording still doesn't seem like it's genuinely from a town perspective.

It's like saying "milk is scum, but these people scumfucking onto her wagon are also scum!" It's trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Who does that? Scum.

It's not like that wording CAN'T be explained away, with effort -- Ghostlin is not stupid and would not say something that blatantly contradicts itself. But SUBCONSCIOUSLY, I feel a confliction there.

[Amrun]

Ghostlike, once again, I am not trying to convince you that you are scum. Let's be clear here, though; this is far from the only reason I said I suspected you. It's simply the only reason you chose to address because it was easiest to take pot shots at. It's also not at all about the "meaning" of any phrases. It's about your choice of words and mindset, and trying to play both sides of the field.

Short of a cop or similar, no one can have "proof" that someone else is scum. Everything is subjective, and everyone uses personal tells because that's what the entire game is about.

I think the very act of saying that sword of omens is scum no matter of milkshake's alignment is scummy, especially given soo's relative level of content. I think HOW you did this, and the words you used, are even scummier.

And your response now is scummier still. Trying to reduce my argument into a strawman and object to it on grounds that "it's subjective" and "it uses personal tells" is the same thing you did with milkshake by saying "it's just my word vs. yours!"

Of course it is. None of those thinks actually invalidate anyone's arguments and I think you're smart enough to know that.

[Amrun]

Ghostlike lol. Sorry on my phone. Attribute any weird typos to autocorrect.

[Amrun]

..what?

[Amrun]

ThAd, seriously? That's not a case. It's an explanation of one comment that several different people have requested expansion on.

If all you're going to do is tell people who ARE generating content to stop doing it, then you maybe need to re-evaluate why you aren't providing any content of your own.

[Amrun]

THAT

THAT RIGHT THERE

You act like Selkies is scum but then treat them like town.

[Amrun]

If Ghostlin flips red, Selkies is town. Period.

[Amrun]

Stop pretending that any argument for anyone being scum that doesn't involve role information is "tangible," ESPECIALLY on day 1. It's just ridiculous.

As for sword ... honestly?

No, I don't find his milkshake vote especially scummy, really. At the most, it's only as scummy as YOUR entrance to the milkshake wagon, which I found fairly bad. Sword_of_omens is ALWAYS an infreqent "catch up" poster. Always. NEVER seen him not do this -- he provides content eventually, but it's in fleeting bursts.

Ducks... What.

[Amrun]

Summarize your opinion of Selkies for me, Ghostlin.

Feeling slightly queasy about that slot. Like it's..not something I can name, actually. They hadn't been town or scum for me until that last post clanged. There's no point in such...cordiality from a hydra, particularly since you occupied a slot that was low activity and somewhat suspicious.

When Selkies calls Ghostlin scum, Ghostlin tries to get me to see Selkies as even scummier and says that he finds the spot suspicious after they "suck up" to me.

Ghost is town and I'm not saying anything more

Someone's been paying attention this game. I'm glad I've not had to

hide

it from someone.

Selkies calls Ghostlin town, and now all of a sudden, he doesn't have to "hide" from them, meaning they are genuinely reading him, MEANING THEY ARE 100% TOWN. No one has to "hide" their towniness from scum.


Ghostlin. Is. Scum.

[Amrun]

Please for the love of god stop responding to Amrun Ghost. Getting a headache.

Try content. It's nice, I hear.

[Amrun]

No, YOU try again. You don't THANK a scum read for reading you as town, ever.

[Amrun]

seriously

SERIOUSLY

seriously

if you're soft hinting some shit

i will fucking rage

either claim or do not. if that is a legit soft claim, i will ream your ass post game. terrible.

as it is, though, scum are far more likely to pull this kind of dumb shit when they're not even l-1 so yeah.

[Amrun]

ALSO EVEN IF IT'S A SOFT CLAIM

YOU STILL TREATED SELKIES AS TOWN

WHICH MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE IF YOU ARE TOWN GIVEN THE CONTEXT OF THE GAME

NONE, ZERO

[Amrun]

This game is annoying me. I'm out. Wake me up when someone in the fucking game decides to be active.

[Amrun]

I don't WANT you to fullclaim. I want you to NOT FUCKING DO DUMB SHIT LIKE THIS EVER. I'm mad that you did this, ESPECIALLY if you're not bullshitting. Like,I went out of my FUCKING WAY not to make a big deal about your blundering obvious hints and act like they were nothing, and you have to go and point a FUCKING NEON ARROW at them for scum.

Jesus Christ.

[Amrun]

Like doing that in such an IDIOTIC FUCKING WAY makes me think you probably are town, but still makes your post about selkies make NO SENSE EVER AT ALL IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD. Either way you shouldn't be able to hide it for terribly long.

Unvote

VOTE: Selkies

[Amrun]

BECAUSE I was looking for an inconspicious way off of your wagon until you made that strange post about selkies that made me doubt. And then you decided to shout it from the rooftops for NO APPARENT REASON.

[Amrun]

It means "you're voting me oh god"

[Amrun]

No, I'm not AFRAID to back off. I just don't play on this basic abc level where everything is fucking literal.

I didn't want to give the impression that I changed my mind for a multitude of reasons, notably because scum is a lot more likely to kill a universal townread that they probably realize is a pr but may be inclined to keep him alive if the most active player still suspects him. I was TRYING to distract scum from his obvious hints and it had a chance of working until he decided to freaking announce it.

Pretending that seeing breadcrumbs and making them EVEN MORE OBVIOUS is a TOWN move is also ridiculous. Scum has no motivation to push on someone who is obviously a pr (they won't get lynched in the end and they are afraid of being openly "wrong," but being right and calling him town early makes them look good) but has every motivation to make it more obvious and not obfuscate it when they see it.

[Amrun]

UM

Which one of those aren't supposed to say Amrun?

[Amrun]

Demon, I will let the other head address your question.

Amrun! I looked over it again, and I was in fact... sniffing glue. Still think your case is/was silly on Ghost for the record. What I really didn't understand was how you got to the conclusion that he was treating Milk as town while saying he wasn't town... until you explained it. You really haven't seen scum sheep?

that there was actually a possibility of you being that stupid

But that is neither here nor there.

Can anyone else confirm if Amrun normally is in rage-mode all the time as town? If no one answers/knows I will go meta myself, just don't have time at the moment.

It's not about scum sheeping, it's about how he chose to phrase it, and quite honestly, no, I have very rarely seen scum sheep onto a SCUM wagon. (Onto town? Definitely. That's my point.)

As for rage mode, you can meta, and you will certainly find rage in some places and not in others. As I mentioned earlier, my play changes with my mood which I let happen quite deliberately for meta reasons.

I have been especially rage-y lately 'cause stress from moving cross country (I do it so much I should be used to it by now) and because what you may interpret as rage is actually just me having fun. (Curse words aren't meant offensively, I promise.)

No, I'm not AFRAID to back off. I just don't play on this basic abc level where everything is fucking literal.

I didn't want to give the impression that I changed my mind for a multitude of reasons, notably because scum is a lot more likely to kill a universal townread that they probably realize is a pr but may be inclined to keep him alive if the most active player still suspects him. I was TRYING to distract scum from his obvious hints and it had a chance of working until he decided to freaking announce it.

Pretending that seeing breadcrumbs and making them EVEN MORE OBVIOUS is a TOWN move is also ridiculous. Scum has no motivation to push on someone who is obviously a pr (they won't get lynched in the end and they are afraid of being openly "wrong," but being right and calling him town early makes them look good) but has every motivation to make it more obvious and not obfuscate it when they see it.

There is a middle ground between sledging someone into claiming and crowning them most obvtown player in the game.

- fferyllt

dammit

I didn't even remotely "sledge someone into claiming." I voted for him and continued to engage him, as anyone should do to someone they suspect/are voting/etc. He was several -- let me repeat,

several

-- votes away from L-1 and I never once asked him to claim or mentioned his role in any way. I was also talking to other people, and the only reason I was talking to him more than others is because he is just about the only other person in this game who posts regularly, and you're #3.

p-edit:

I have a town read on milkshake. Not TOWNTOWNTOWN, but town. Sword I am much closer to null, but if forced at gunpoint to pick, I'd say leaning town.

[Amrun]

I never implied that it did.

[Amrun]

VOTE: ThAdmiral

Do something and stop bitching. You're capable of so much better, and I know it, which leads me to believe you're scum stalling and trying to shut down. This is NOT something I recall from your town playstyle.

[Amrun]

It means "you're voting me oh god"

Pls don't answer for other players [:

Reals, Matt?

REAL?

If you don't get how that was a joke, you're not reading the game at all. It is time to dedicate time to this game instead of faux prod dodging.

vla until Tuesday

Work.

[Amrun]

Is Matt usually this disengaged with the game?

He's hosting like a billion people at his house right now. I'm not there yet -- I was at work instead, but I will be there from Sunday evening to Wednesday. Iecerint will be there or is there because he's picking me up.

^^ what I mean by that is you should probably vote me instead. Or do you plan to shift to me if my wagon gets any bigger?

Shit like this makes me think ThAd might be a jester, but it's almost TOO obvious for jester... Even so he needs to go.

Quotes or it didn't happen?

This feels like a really weird response to a case on you. Also, Demon is very concerned with other people's level of activity without contributing anything himself, which puts me off.

[Amrun]

Telling people to vote you is not town behavior. It is not jester behavior, either, actually, and this setup is not likely to have a jester anyway.

Yes, but it's not really scum behavior, either. I'm baffled.

[Amrun]

To the grave.

[Amrun]

OH, heads up, here on out I'll be scarce until next week -- and even then, I'll have one day before my regular weekend v/la.

I have work and then I'm going to Balto Meet (yay!). I"ll make posts here and there but don't expect good engagement from me for a week +.


Game-wise, I don't see anything I am particularly compelled to write about, except that sword of omens is painfully town. He's towwwwwwwwwwwn. TOWN.

Town, I tell you.

ThAd lynch should be a no brainer. I don't know why he isn't dead yet.

[Amrun]

One thing about Amrun's posts, and I'm not sure it's a big deal. Compared to some players, Amrun mostly steered clear of discussion about MattP's vt claim.

oh gee i wonder why maybe because no one should ever talk about it ever


i'm just checking in really quick to say I exist and see if there's some drastic shift that I need to examine


right now it looks like thad vs. soo, so my vote is 100% where it needs to be.

[Amrun]

I almost got excited and was going to say I plan to report a read on Iecerint and Matt after tomorrow, esp. Iecerint considering we'll be spending some car time together...

But then I remembered this is not Always On and we're not supposed to talk about the game elsewehre. lolwoops. i'm tard.

[Amrun]

I never said Iece was town. Currently undecided on that myself. I just said that this fits in with his meta and is not strange in any way, which is true.

[Amrun]

Let's just put it this way... he may be scum, but his posting style is not an indication of this (ie noncommittal and distant).

[Amrun]

OKAY SO UH

IECE WAS LIKE

"DID YOU KNOW DEADLINE FOR A GAME YOU ARE IN IS IN SIX HOURS" >.>

[Amrun]

I just want Amrum to answer my question.

I have missed your question and as soon as I post this I will go back and find it. If you read this first, re-state it quick to make it easier since that might have been the hammer!

Let's just put it this way... he may be scum, but his posting style is not an indication of this (ie noncommittal and distant).

What would be indicative of his scum game?

In real life? How he looks into my eyes lol. But he totally fleeced me as scum last night.

He is more indecisive as scum than as town, but he is indecisive as either. I am still null on him, and I flipflop on the lean. I find it easier to read iece with flips under the belt to evaluate his past actions with.

One curious thing...milk has hardly interacted with or mentioined Amrun at all.

Funny. Why do you say this? Milkshake and I have interacted quite a lot. I want this answered even if it must be answered tomorrow.

Will bring this up with orcinus as soon as he's online. Our vote stays where it is in the meantime because I'm skeptical as fuck about this role claim.

- fferyllt

Why? If you said why I missed it, I guess. Is it flavor? (I don't know flavor.)

Me too, especially now that you mentioned that. It seems like the kind of thing that might be a scum safeclaim.

confirm vote: Ms Marangal

L-3 IS NOT WHERE DOCTORS CLAIM

NO IT IS NOT

I will shout at everyone until you see how scum Marangal is

And if we lynch milk today everyone is going to promise me Marangal is lynched to death.

- f

Of course L-3 is not where doctors claim, but even so, day 1 scum doctor fakeclaims sort themselves out and should not be lynched.

So your a channeler and nothing but?

I'm finding it hard to believe

and L-3 is where a doc would claim when the game is near deadline and she isn't sure if she would be able to be here for it, and if she was confident enough to guess when scum will try and target her so that she could use her other ability to try and dodge the kill

also, why are Thad and I the only ones who are getting shit for pre-mature claiming when Demon has done the exact same thing?

and Orci, I knew that you were going to bring up that game, like Jesus. yes, I have fake-claimed Vig as scum but how in the world does that mean my claim here is fake? I'm not scum Orci, My claim is legit and I'll do a full one if I have to but god, if you can't see the difference in tone here then IDK what to say.

as for the sucking up, I feel that it's a scum-tell when it's the only thing that the person does. She can like Fery's Iso, I like Fery's Iso it's helpful but if the sole Purpose is to butter someone up and get them onto your good side then they are probably likely scum. It's for that exact same reason WK'ing is a scum-tell, it serves as a way to get the person under good light. Make them look really good.

The way the bolded question was asked puts me off.

WHY ARE YOU AVOIDING MY QUESTION, AMRUN?!?

Once again, I have no clue what it is but I'll try to find it before the flip.

re: milkshake, I didn't like her vote on Maringal and how it was made but if this is the hammer I still suspect it will be a town flip, though I'm less sure than I once was (perhaps just wishful thinking).

[Amrun]

and you know that there's another color in play here how?

Is this the question? You buried it in a wall and I missed it.

If so, I don't understand what your panties are in a wad about. Scum flips are red, and town flips are green. This has been part of the site vernacular since I joined and always will be. wut?


Also I think I forgot to mention I still favor a ThAd lynch and I'll check back a little later (probably) to see if that was indeed the hammer and then we'll proceed from there.

[Amrun]

If so, I don't understand what your panties are in a wad about. Scum flips are red, and town flips are green. This has been part of the site vernacular since I joined and always will be. wut?

I understand that Amrun. What I don't understand is why you substituted the word red in place of mafia or the more common catch all; scum.

Because they're synonyms? I'm hardly the first or last person to do so. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

Iecerint did hammer, btw, from my count. The unvotes came from the MM side of the house. Which, now in Twilight retrospect, MM seems a much better play later in the day than that slot did before. There's a lot of things that clanged, not only L-3; but proposing lynches that wouldn't fly near deadline, particularly after the skepticism that #737 shows.

It reads as scum sweating and doing anything not to be lynched rather than finding the most effective lynch for Town. I still like Beliscum for his entire play today, and if Milk flips scum, I might entertain the idea of a scum slip for the first time in my life.

If milkshake does flip scum, I don't know if I'd call it a scum slip as opposed to wifom, but it would certainly bear considering.

[Amrun]

VOTE: ThAd

Bullshit that you know someone targeted you as commuter. I've never once seen that. That makes that role broken as fucking shit.

Iece, what are your reads? Your actual reads?

[Amrun]

I was the main driver of that, actually. Milkshake did agree.

You don't have any scum reads at all?

What about me? Aren't you better at reading me now?

[Amrun]

Who are you leaning scum on pre-reread, Iecerint?

[Amrun]

Wait

Wait

Wait

Didn't someone claim doctor

Why is

No way


Okay

I want to vote that fucking person

Though... One of that person/Thad is almost definitely scum

Who did this thing?! Who must die?!

[Amrun]

I still want answers from Thad, but VOTE: ms maringal

A) no way scum goes for MattP over an actual town doctor (or ghostlin, a claimed pr, though flavor makes me think ghostlin was not a scum kill though this is just a guess)

B) no way a doctor doesn't fucking protect ghostlin!!!

This should be a fucking quicklynch IMHO.

[Amrun]

Ghostlin claimed pr. It was fucking obvious.

Even if both of those things were true, a commuter and a doctor won't be existing in the same small set up -- and as much as Thad's play had been totally baffling, it's been so baffling that I can believe he was just mangling a commuter role.

[Amrun]

Ghost was the most obvious protect, but I'm willing to concede considering how strong my scum read was on him at one point. But even so, only the stupidest scum team alive kills Matt that hasn't read the game over a claimed doc, especially considering Matt is another viable protect even on reputation alone. He's a very common night 1 kill, when town.

I can't see Thad's role and your role existing in the same game and both bring town, and his play is more consistent with his role than yours is.

[Amrun]

Why are there multiple commuters? And if that's the case then no way in hell is there a doc and Marangal should be speed lynched.

[Amrun]

I believe ThAd , but this makes a doctor extremely unlikely in this set up and I don't understand why more votes aren't there. Thad, how do you know you were targeted, because you lost your ability?

But I was about to switch my vote to Nero for sk hunting on day 2 with no flips when I realized what he was getting after. I can't decide whether to reveal because it might make Nero more likely to be scum but I might just be paranoid, and if so, revealing is bad.

So instead I'll ask you this, Nero: why sk? Why not other things?

Everything you're thinking would be incorrect, though. But I don't understand how you leaped to that conclusion and its weird as fuck. Is ever think that as town, ever...

[Amrun]

Um

Do you understand what it is?

Commuters are essentially self protects (but even stronger, especially given how this particular one works).

There is evidence that MORE THAN ONE of these exist in this game.

If town also has a doctor, the game is broken as fuck. I choose to not think the game is broken as fuck.

Also Marangal has still not claimed her action after repeated needling about it, even though the town thing is just to say it straight off. And Marangal claimed doctor at L-3 on day 1, which is super scummy in and of itself. I didn't want to lynch it day 1 because game actions make it obvious by endgame whether doctor claims are true, and at the very least, doctor fake claims force scum to leave alive the obvious targets, if they exist.

Marangal should die now.

[Amrun]

Beli, I didn't say it was weird to think there is an sk. (It isn't.). It's weird to make the leaps Nero has made. I can't really explain more.

But I will say that it's extra weird to think Matt was the sk kill, if there was one, given the flavor, or even regardless of that. I think maybe he'll get that.

Why wouldn't you intend to use that ability, beli?

[Amrun]

He has concluded that I am the SK and that I should be lunched because of it

He is wrong on both counts, but I think I know why he thinks this. I am debating internally about what it means that he leapt to that particular conclusion over the many other possible conclusions. I am not sure if I should reveal... I said all this earlier. How closely are you reading? :/

[Amrun]

Hmm... Maybe I was wrong. Nero, why do you think I'm sk? If there is a reason you don't want to clarify that is role-related, say so. It's obviously a non-vanilla game sooo.

But in general, why do you think I'm sk and not mafia?

[Amrun]

I am not a dreamwalker.

It was clear Ghostlin was claiming PR; I wasn't clear which PR.

I am pretty confused because I don't remember my role pm saying any of this shit. But then I don't know flavor so I may have ignored it. I'm going to go check just to be sure.

[Amrun]

No, it doesn't mention it at all. I thought I was retarded there for a hot minute.

[Amrun]

Where did I get the impression...?

He screamed it from the roof tops! You'd have to be functionally retarded to miss it, no joke. It was a big fucking deal, and it was said in words, and I obviously unvoted him because of it.

[Amrun]

So saying he's a town pr isn't enough to think he's soft claiming?

[Amrun]

It was clear enough of a soft claim to derail a whole wagon on him...

[Amrun]

ThAd, I'm not impressed. That post lacks reads and doesn't comment on Marangal at all.

[Amrun]

The color thing is retarded. I've addressed it before so I'll spare it now. Also I didn't say Matt was a stupid kill... Odd,maybe, given his inactivity. I have actually explicitly said he makes the most sense as a mafia kill.

The main question is if you ARE convinced I'm the sk, why the fuck are you advocating my lynch on day 2? Mafia would be far more important to town.

Also is Matt's role vanilla? I didn't even notice. :/ I'll look after this but I assumed that vts were more like what Ghostlin was. I'm obviously neither of these things soooooo.

[Amrun]

You are aware that almost every single theme game on this site provides scum with fully flavored fake claims, are you not? Precisely so that people cannot be cleared with flavor.

ThAd, though, claim your ability "name," because I have one as well.

Balance wise, it makes no sense at all for a doctor to exist in this set up, and the way the claim came (early, and piecemeal) is fairly typical for a scum claim. And once again, the kills make no sense if scum and/or sk was operating under the assumption of an actual doctor being in the game.

[Amrun]

I'm non-channeling as well.

Nero, how do you see beli not understanding how fakeclaims work as a scum tell? Especially since he's using it to clear, not condemn? That seems like a town tell to me.

[Amrun]

Because you are still under the impression that Mara's flavor in her claim makes her more likely to be town, and it is simply untrue.

[Amrun]

Beli, no, I think the mod gave her the FULL claim, including character and ability. That's pretty standard. It's not weird at all -- and it's by far the most common way to do fakeclaims in small theme games like this.

And I was feeling scummy on Selkies, but I also follow that point on Marangal and it made me like them more. If Marangal is scum (and I think yes obviously) then I am okay with Selkies as town. If I am wrong, then I will probably be pursuing selkies next.

[Amrun]

No. It's very rare to see a theme game with source material that DOESN'T do this for fakeclaims. On this site, we don't like clearing or catching people with flavor. We like it to be play-related.

[Amrun]

Well, believe it or not, Beli, it's true.

But you're freaking town as town town town for not knowing it. SOOOOO town.

And GCBC, just because it's more likely for scum to get full fakeclaims doesn't mean that doesn't mean I don't expect people to produce full claims. Just covering all the bases. ThAd is most likely town, though. Which is why Marangal is scum (or one of the reasons).

[Amrun]

@Beli: I believe your belief is genuine. That just doesn't make you right.

[Amrun]

Why doesn't commuter fit the set up? Obviously doctor and commuter can't co-exist, so I understand that, but there's no reason either one shouldn't be in the game on its own.

p-edit: Once gain scum would not have to "chance" anything. They have fakeclaims, like every scum in a source material theme EVER. JEsus christ, sword, i know you know this.

[Amrun]

No, I get it now.

You're right, sword. Beli's logic doesn't add up.

[Amrun]

Selkies, yes, that happens as well.

[Amrun]

Beli... So you're saying you're a commuter. And you still think an unlimited doc is in the game? Reals?

P-edit: I don't agree that poor logic = scum.

[Amrun]

What is your read on me, Iece?

Also, it's clear by now that the reasons that I thought Nero thought what he thought are not the actual reasons... Which still leaves me confused. I meant to ask this before: Nero, do you have meta of SK hunting early game as town? As scum?

[Amrun]

Eh.

I'm probably willing to lynch ThAd today. Sometimes I think he's town and then sometimes I"m like "wut"

I'd MUCH prefer to lynch Marangal, and I only really want to lynch ThAd upon the agreement that if he flips town, we immediately string up Marangal.

[Amrun]

Nero, do you have meta of SK hunting early game as town? As scum?

no and no.

Did you fakecrumb as mafia? They do do that ya know?

Uh, what? How does that question even make sense?

I haven't crumbed anything in particular (on purpose). Even if I had, what did you expect me to do, go, "YEAH, I'M MAFIA AND I LAYED ALL THESE FAKE CRUMBS!! HERE THEY ARE!!! ALSO IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO CRUMB BEING SK!"

lolwut

[Amrun]

HMMMMMMMMM

VOTE: Amrun

This is mainly sheeping Nero, but it's also coming off of Amrun's "I think I might know why he thinks this" post, too. I think this is consistent with Amrun perceiving that the night game may have implicated her as scum and crumbing for an alternate-history story.

This is frustrating for me because I have Nero as gutscum outside of the Nero->Amrun thing that's happened today BUT what'd'ya do...

Obviously, you're right. I wasn't really crumbing, though, I was outright saying.

I'm obviously some flavor of PR, so I may as well say it. I targeted Matt last night so I thought Nero tracked me. It would have to be that, because if he watched Matt, he would have seen at least one other person because I most certainly did not kill him.

I didn't think Matt would die last night because of his inactivity.

I was ALARMED by this because he concluded SK. In my mind, seeing someone visit someone dead and concluding SK was like WUT. I was really confused, because my gut reaction was to say only scum would do this, but I wasn't sure my gut reaction made sense, especially since it wasn't confirmed that's why he thought it.

As it turns out, that's NOT why he thought it, but I'm still unsure what that means. His reasoning is pretty loopy, to me, and the fact that he now seems to be backtracking and including mafia is a possibility confuses me more. If he had started out of the gate with that it would have been a lot more straight forward, but that isn't the case.

[Amrun]

I'm a cop of some kind. So if he's crumbed investigative, show me where asap because if you're not misinterpreting, it COULD mean we should auto lynch him with great impunity. Either way, you should know he's not a cop, because his flip flopping on SK issues means he didn't get a guilty on me.

And if Nero is scum, it DOES actually make me town (or at worst SK, which I'm also not.)

[Amrun]

I seriously doubt we have multiscum in such a small game. I don't know the flavor... does that make sense? Are there two enemy groups?

[Amrun]

That's what I thought about the flavor, too, GCBC. But I don't understand the source material so I don't know what makes more sense from that perspective.

I was a lot more suspicious of Iece until he came at me like this. I was actually planning on voting him after the thad/marangal thing was sorted out. But now ... not so much. Of all the people for scum Iece to take a stance on, I'm probably one of the more risky ones to make an enemy of (for him personally, not because I'm laik so awesomez).

[Amrun]

Yeah, but there's no point of investiscum if it's not two scum teams.

[Amrun]

Yeah, but there's no point of investiscum if it's not two scum teams.

Well, presuming Nerotracker, scum can use it to either find the SK or to find PRs/get nightgame info.

He's not a tracker, though. He definitely didn't track me to Matt. Alluding to it just confused him.

[Amrun]

I don't channel, or dreamwalk, or anything like that at all. At least, my role pm doesn't mention it so if it were to happen I"m assuming it would be happening due to someone else's action(s).

[Amrun]

Nero, nice try to paint me like I'm not reading because I don't know the flavor. None of the flavor talk has included discussion of who a second scum team might consist of, which is what I was asking.

And GCBC, I've been saying this about Mara all along!! It makes NO sense for a doctor to be in this set up, and even if Thad is lying, it STILL makes very little sense. But I think Thad's role is more consistent with the other flipped/claimed roles than Mara's, hence my vote.

[Amrun]

@selkies: Wrong. Scum fakeclaiming power roles early isn't odd at all, because they're panicking. It's far more common than town early claiming, because they have the conviction of being town and a desire to protect their PR for the sake of the town.

That's a big reason I suspect Marangal in the first place. I want to re-iterate that it's not just set up spec that makes Marangal scum. Look how she claimed, piecemeal. Look through her ISO and find the scumhunting; it's sparse to nonexistent. Look how little she is concerned with how her claim doesn't fit (this should make her look more closely at other similar roles, and evaluate them in light of her own, but she doesn't). Look how inconsistent and nonsensical she has been re: Ghostlin's claim.

[Amrun]

Why would town be worried that they got tracked?

Why would scum trot out a fake claim with so little vote pressure?

Its 6 to lynch. She already has two votes and you've claimed that both you and Orc find her suspicious so that's 50%. + its not like scum don't fakeclaim early. Some of ya'll are claiming that Mara is scum, what's the difference between the two claims? + its not like she hard committed to a claim so she still has some flexibility, though she claimed an investigation type role so I doubt she'll be the lynch for today.

+ there's a history of scum claiming to have visited a body but not killed them so I'm on edge.

Amrun, what was your initial reaction to a second kill?

Can you tell me or quote your belli read?

Sorry, missed this on previous page -- probably missing some other posts, had this pre-loaded on phone.

Of course I understand the skepticism about having visited a dead body... That's logical.

And I will clarify my role to prevent my lynch, but I don't think it's pro-town to do so until absolutely necessary.

As for Belli, he's a strong town read. I've said it several times.

[Amrun]

Oops, still a question I missed.

My initial reaction was to be weirded out because I didn't expect it in a mini. My initial reaction was also that the scum kill was more likely to be Matt, and therefore the scumteam consists of at least one person who knows Matt's reputation and is scared of it.

[Amrun]

I didn't claim due to any pressure at all. I claimed to she'd light on Nero's alignment and motivation; entirely different. I still don't feel any pressure and the likelihood of me being lynched today is very small indeed and always was.

Did you seriously just claim that a doctor that can self protect I'd WEAKENED? That's OP as shit and I don't buy it in this game AT ALL!

[Amrun]

Oh and for the record since several people have mentioned him, my town read on demon has deteriorated significantly since I first stated it, even by the end of yesterday (which I think I noted, not sure). But still, I'm not especially inclined to lynch him, though I'm not opposed except by virtue of far better lynches existing. Demon's a big "meh" for me, though I still don't find him particularly scummy. That being said, I can't exactly call his behavior pro-town.

ThAd and Marangal BOTH pushing for Demon, a relatively safe lurker lynch, solidifies my conviction that there is scum in this group as well as makes me less inclined to lynch Demon by association alone.

P-edit: no it does not make sense.

And yes, she's a claimed doc that lived past night 1 when a claimed PR DIDN'T! It has already been made clear by night play that she's scum!

[Amrun]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

What gives you the impression that there are only two, it not just one, or that Mara isn't lying about the whole thing and there are none?

[Amrun]

Oooh I bet Ghostlin was the paired town role and Mara is the scum half!

[Amrun]

I know what he's talking about. I just don't know why he's saying, "If Marangal is telling the truth about her role, it suggests she's town." A derp. If you're telling the truth you're town... What a revelation!

The fact that iece's logic is circular gives me sudden bad feelings about him, especially if you end up actually being town.

[Amrun]

It's very clear in context that both iece and I thought you were crumbling an investigation role, and also it was just fucking obvious anyway (IMHO). But it had everything to do with your alignment.

And a claimed PR =/= claimed doctor. In fact, if Marangal is telling the truth, the scum may want to avoid me, scared of her protect. But in a game where everyone, or almost everyone, is a pr, it means little.

A doctor, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous to scum. And notice how today the self protect bit is added, so now when she stays living, there's an excuse -- after, of course, I pointed out how if she were a doc it's highly unlikely she wouldn't be dead.

And I think you know those things, Nero. Pretending not to understand any context just makes you scummier, as does your indirect defense of Marangal.

[Amrun]

Demon only pops up when he is mentioned to defend himself (and that is being generous, he basically just said the case was bullshit) and then disappears again.
Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour and start focusing on actual gameplay in the game?

Mara's gameplay is very scummy. That's where it originates. It also has zilch to do with flavor. I don't understand how you are not more suspicious of her, if you are town.

[Amrun]

My role HAS a big flavor glob to it, and a flavor to it, but it's obviously just flavor. So I get where you're coming from Selkies. Part of the reason i suspect Marangal (and to a lesser extent, Thad) is because her role is so completely convoluted while mine is so straightforward.

[Amrun]

Try reading my posts. I made a summary post like two pages for people like you not even trying to follow along.

[Amrun]

Try reading my posts. I made a summary post like two pages for people like you not even trying to follow along.

Ouch, you can be mean amrun.

Ok so here is what I think you are referring to (if I'm wrong please don't snap at me again, my heart won't be able to take it):

@selkies: Wrong. Scum fakeclaiming power roles early isn't odd at all, because they're panicking. It's far more common than town early claiming, because they have the conviction of being town and a desire to protect their PR for the sake of the town.

That's a big reason I suspect Marangal in the first place. I want to re-iterate that it's not just set up spec that makes Marangal scum. Look how she claimed, piecemeal. Look through her ISO and find the scumhunting; it's sparse to nonexistent. Look how little she is concerned with how her claim doesn't fit (this should make her look more closely at other similar roles, and evaluate them in light of her own, but she doesn't). Look how inconsistent and nonsensical she has been re: Ghostlin's claim.

Ok it is a decent case, the most convincing bit is the fact she didn't protect ghostlin. My only counterpoint is this:
Lets say she is scum. Why defend me? I have a role that incriminates her, which she could easily say she thinks is bs (due to her role). Apart from that why defend someone who has claimed town pr at all? Especially town pr that she won't be able to deal with at night?
That's my main reason for thinking she is town.

Yes, I know it relies on me knowing that I am town, which is something you don't have the luxury of doing. But assuming I am town - can you explain her defending me?

ABSOLUTELY. The worst thing that can happen for Scum Marangal at this point is for you to flip town. You flip town commuter, and then we go, "Well, what the fuck, how can there be that AND a doctor?" (Answer: exceedingly unlikely)

As long as you are alive, and people are still even marginally suspicious of you, that WIFOM is still alive. Her defending you is something I find pretty scummy, because I think it's far more natural for a town doctor to suspect you, as a claimed commuter, EVEN IF by some crazy turn of events you are both town.

Youre kidding me right swords?

Your going to vote claimed doc over someone who has donw absolute shit?

Also, this post. Sheesh.

[Amrun]

Ill get to this shit later but I dont undersrand why demon isnt geting lynched. Yeah thads commuter role might have drawn my suspucion if I didnt already rhink that he pretty much town prior to his xlaim.

This statement reads to me like "why isn't the lurker getting lynched over meeeee it's NOT FAIR" combined with "my read on thad is not coming off as genuine oh crap."

I'm trying not to tunnel here.

But it's hard.

So hard.

I can't see beyond this. IT MUST DIE.

[Amrun]

But the defense of Thad pre-claim is irrelevant because the claim should have had you re-evaluating and you already admitted it DIDN'T. I don't think that's what town would do.

Demon is lurking, but that doesn't mean he should be lunched over people who are far scummier.

[Amrun]

GCBC, what are you feeling about msm and Thad?

[Amrun]

Amrun, Have you read my recent posts? I’ve been VERY clear that Thad is scum.
By process of Thad being Scum, I find Mara to be town. I know you’re very much thinking she’s scum right now, but I don't think she is. Like I said before, this feels like the town-mara I played with in my newbie game.

Yes, I know. I meant more in relation to one other. Do you think their roles are mutually exclusive?

[Amrun]

Yes, but I view Demon as low priority.

[Amrun]

To be honest? Only at deadline. But probably.

[Amrun]

Well that's an exceedingly pro-town attitude...

[Amrun]

I was town reading Mara 'cause she awkwardly claimed her role in Gears of War mafia much like she did here.

Can you expand on this?

[Amrun]

It's kinda freaking me out that there apparently are so many PRs.

One of these things is not like the other

One of these things just doesn't belong~

[Amrun]

I MEAN MARA IS SCUM

OKAY???

[Amrun]

You don't see the connection? It's extremely straightforward and simple and I have a hard time thinking this question is legitimate.

I don't want to say because I do want ThAd to answer, but...

[Amrun]

no

i weep for you

i weep for my country

you can tak our lahvs but you cannae tak our freedom

[Amrun]

I hate you all for not lynching Marangal. hate you.

VOTE: ThAd

[Amrun]

sword, if we can drum up support for mara, I'd be obviously much happier lynching her.

[Amrun]

of course you would want me gone Goat, without me the cops cant work and get get a guilty result on you and your teammates. You also wouldn't be able to kill me at night so the only real way to get me out of the game is to lynch me. that's not going to happen

That's Mara's awkward as fuck claim in GOW mafia, can someone explain to me the difference between what Mara did here?

Do you think Mara if faking town meta?

It's not really similar at all, except that it's an awkward early claim. But it's relevant... Thanks for sharing.


GUYS WE HAVE 1 HOUR

AND NO FUCKING LYNCH

I HATE YOU

[Amrun]

If there is a no lynch i ragequit

[Amrun]

Don't ragequit, your aid may be needed to quicklynch Mara for allowing a NL within shitting distance of deadline

plz let it be true

thanks, sword.

[Amrun]

THAD IF YOU'RE TOWN

I'M SORRY AND I STILL <3 YOU

[Amrun]

If thad is town and mara isn't fucking quicklynched tomorrow then I hate everyone in the world

[Amrun]

EVERYONE

even you

[Amrun]

How could you guys ever think demonslot was scum after Mara flip?! How could you guys take so long to lynch Mara?! :'(

[Amrun]

Cabd, your hydra really played well. (As did your scum team in general.)

Bussing iece was a smart move.

Town made me sad in my sad pants this game

[Amrun]

I misread that anyway. XD. I corrected it afterward.

[Amrun]

gg scum, game was too confusing and people spent far too much time talking about roles and setup imo.

Actually, if people had paid more attention to this, you would never have been lynched in the first place.

[Amrun]

Still butthurt over this game.

[Amrun]

Wishing you great lluck with the job search SoO!