Newbie 1381 Oakhaven is Overrun Game Over

[Honey bee]

#15 didn't seem a little odd to you?

Can you explain your vote? Because this post feels unnaturally defensive about it. VOTE: Greywing

[Honey bee]

I voted because of the fact that Luigi's vote was an obvious joke vote, and yet Mala seemed to jump on him for it.

It wasn't that obvious to the rest of us. 3 people commented thinking that vote was serious. Mala didn't appear all that aggressive about it either; she just reasonably asked why Luigi voted that way.

So you're voting grey wing because you don't understand his vote?

I'm voting him because A. his vote felt opportunistic after you had questioned mala's assumption about replacing and B. Post 20's reaction to your vote felt more like "Why aren't you voting with me?" than just justifying his vote. It bothers me that he left it ambiguous hare in this post and waited to clarify later in Post 41.

Luigi's posts rub me in the wrong way. You should make more of an effort to comment on the thread. When someone comes back to the thread only to end up defending themselves I start to think they aren't looking for mafia. I know the first day is particularly hard to find information but you at least have to try to make some reads.

The Jmo and Mothrax votes I'm not feeling currently. I think jmo's vote is fine this early in the game and mothrax coaching thing doesn't make sense. Isn't coaching something you do for a scumbuddy? It's not something I'd look for without knowing the alignment of one of them first.

[Honey bee]

ThaneArvan, You are still side-lining though. You haven't placed a vote.

Exactly. There is an alarming lack of serious votes for being out of RVS. This game needs to pick up the pace a little and we can't get that without some people throwing out some reads or accusations.

Why did you unvote jmo anyways, Mala?

Third-ed that Tybalt to explain what "awfully neutral" means, though I bet he voted him for lurking. Thane or Uo, explain what coaching is because I apparently do not know what it is or why would it be scummy. Jmo, may you give us you're opinions on who is scum and why?

My vote is happy where it is, though if Luigi doesn't make a real post soon I will probably switch. I know you're lurking around here.

[Honey bee]

I fail to see how it is anti town not to use a vote

Voting is pretty much the only threat we have on the mafia. It allows you gauge reactions, gives us responses for analysis later, and validates your reads. Otherwise your accusations will not mean anything to the person you suspect. There is an unvote button, y'know. so unless it will hammer or allow someone else the opportunity to hammer, what harm is there for voting your scum reads? Don't be afraid to throw out ideas and weak reads: It will create more discussion which is what we want, especially now.

Thane doesn't stick out over any of the other people who took a halfassed stance, I'm not sure why jmo thinks he's notable.

All that I'm saying is that he's basically ignoring all the events that have transpired without voting anyone or giving any reads.

I agree with Mala. This reasoning is after the fact, taking from the thread why he's suspicious now. I want to VOTE: Vote: Tybalt for now. You even say that Uo's only post was good but his post seemed as wishy washy as Thane's recent ones (except for the vote, which you said you don't care about). Please clarify some of your reads.

[Honey bee]

Still hasn't voted, and with a lot of discussion and accusations going around, even a couple in my direction, I can think of a few reasons, but the most prominent in my mind at the moment is unsure of who to put pressure on to get lynched. Which is mainly done as Mafia, in my experience.

How does any of this not apply to you? You say there is "a lot of discussion and accusations going around". If that's true then you should have comments and opinions on it.

[Honey bee]

VOTE: Greywing

Some good analysis coming from GW, maybe a bit

too

good? I wonder if he's missed out on tentatively reading anyone yet?

Excuse me, WHAT? I have no idea what this is suppose to mean or how its scummy. Like either you are working on some higher level thinking or this just makes no sense.

Also thank you for replacing in. : D

I'm not, but I don't want you to flip scum looking for an easy target.

Uh this sentence is really weirdly worded. Are you saying he's mafia because he's picking on easy people or are you criticizing his play? And "I don't want you to flip scum"? I'm not sure what you're line of questioning is trying to lead to.

Thane doesn't really seem that bad to me, I think he just suffers from being too wordy. He did say after all he was having trouble making reads. And the first part I agree with: It seemed strange that he took the opportunity of voting thane after being asked for a read on him.

Greywing last few posts were good so you're no longer on my bad list. Tybalt I'm still happy with though (will you acknowledge me plz?). also more jmo reads would still be nice, or at least sell me on thane because I don't see it.
Mothrax, how do you feel about grey now?

[Honey bee]

oh lol okay, I understand.

[Honey bee]

Okay we have some

interesting

replacements.

Talah, you are all over the place. You start out with some OMGUS reads along with some strange nonsense reasons. You excuse your first vote as just faux-RVS (that was a long time ago and a bad excuse) and your suspicions on thane just appeared outta nowhere in post 116. You also say it with such confidence they're both scum and assumed that Mala would defend Thane, which is a bit baffling to me. Posts afterwards are you backing down of these reasons and then using mala's thoughts as a reason to vote jmo. Do you really think he's mafia for voting Thane or is it to do with his opinion on voting? Because the problem with jmo is for all the questions he's bringing to the thread he hasn't made many reads, or at least if he has reads he's hiding them. I don't see really how "mafia theory" has anything to do with that.

Your revote on greywing doesn't make sense either. Post 77 is criticizing Luigi for lack of content after making posts about defending himself, while post 96 is criticizing thane for making a vote based on someone sheeping someone else as well as based on coaching (which we've already discussed as weak).

At this point, I'd just like you to give me your reads right now, and I'd like to have them without all the muddled double think ("i think this scummy but","this is a good post even though", etc.). I'll re-look at some of your posts which I have a tough time understanding, but right now my thought is that I'd be satisfied with your lynch today.

Lastly, my opinion of Mothrax is that they have so far been asking good questions and their ideas are consistent. I have no reason to be suspicious of them now, but I wanna see their opinions of grey now.

also deadline is on the 16th at 2:24 est or however long this countdown says has time left.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-16 14:24:49)

and please don't double/triple post. thanks :).

Fropomo, it's cool that you have your own ideas but you can't do this:

Both asked questions that propelled us out of RVS, pro town playing.

Mala's 15, 50, 93. Analyzing scumreads instead of fostering them to result in possible lynch later in the day
Moth's 39 also.

Asking questions to other people and catches scumtells

Okay tybalt is town.

Please explain for the person that's voting him why this quote makes him town. I see no statement in this quote that couldn't be made easily by made by mafia. Their isn't really anything special about mothrax's post 39.

Also what exactly do you think about jmo makes him possibly mafia? Is it a disagreement on theory or what? because I dont see "not using your vote is bad" is inconsistent with "I don't give town reads". Also I don't see disagreements on theory as a good reason either.

Either way jmo still needs to post some actual opinions. Is "amished scumtell" all you really have to say about Talah? I want opinions on the rest of us.

[Honey bee]

*yawn*

prod Mr. Thanearvan please Mod or maybe replace him. He hasn't been any more active since the post where he said he would be.

Grey do you have any other reads other than Talah?

You are a very strange player, talah. First off, when I asked for reads I meant scum reads. I don't care about town reads either, I only see scumminess and lack there of. So far, I haven't really gotten an idea of what you find scummy. You back down from things, double-thinking, and a lot of strange side comments. Like right now you have your vote on Grey, but you call him a good questioner. Isn't him mostly questioning what got you suspicious of him? And doesn't this criticism apply to jmo too? I can not see consistent suspicions in your posts, and for all the discussion in the thread you should have a stance on something.
Why am I strong read? just cause I put effort into my posts does not make me town.

But I challenge anyone to find anything actually and seriously wrong with Luigi's statements.

I already did.

Still hasn't voted, and with a lot of discussion and accusations going around, even a couple in my direction, I can think of a few reasons, but the most prominent in my mind at the moment is unsure of who to put pressure on to get lynched. Which is mainly done as Mafia, in my experience.

How does any of this not apply to you? You say there is "a lot of discussion and accusations going around". If that's true then you should have comments and opinions on it.

Thane, for all his absence, has been the easy target for some low effort players and I'm pretty confident that one of them is mafia. Luigi, jmo, and tybalt all fall into this category.

Tybalt nice of you to drop by.

also some statement complaining about lack of activity.

[Honey bee]

UNVOTE: Grey
VOTE: Thane

Policy

Wow. What on Earth made you think this was a good idea? No one should EVER want lynch someone just because they haven't posted frequently enough.

*reads*

kk thank you :).

tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.

Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.

JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing

Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO

ah HA. What a perfectly bad post to confirm my feelings that you are mafia.
First off I am positive you have not even tried to read this game or if you have you are searching for only your name. You came up with a nice little list earlier in this game to fall away from the "no reads suspicion", curbing the lurk radar with little comments, And now you've come to make a decision to jump off this bad wagon on thane and make a half baked case on jmo (who is also a popular candidate).

Everything you said about him you have absolutely no grounds coming from you. Trying to stay out of the spotlight? You realize for how mysterious he is about reads, He has 4X the amount of posts you have. Jmo is very provoking, has often defended his play as "the way he's always played" and despite efforts to get his reads has remained true to his nature. You on the other hand have remained very much outside of discussion, but still around to post an answer and make some off comment on talah.

2nd You called jmo town in that list, right next to me. So what exactly changed between post 78 and post 164? Surely not post 43. If it bothered you that much then you wouldn't have put a big town read on him that early. And I'm going to have agree with jmo that there is really nothing about this post that is avoiding conflict. If you actually were reading you would of noted that mala called it "bs" and jmo stood by his play in #52. Pretty obvious that you just picked this post at random to cite as evidence and hoping no one would look at it.

Lastly, you mention jmo's vote as hypocritical. REALLY. Because you've had such wonderful contributions so far. Jmo is at least generating some type of information and has been communicating on some level. You've only touched on one post really in the past 100, and that wasn't even anything enlightening. In other words your arguments are contrived and your play is too careful. I have not forgotten why I voted you and I'm not going to let my suspicions blow over because you avoid them.

It's more difficult being an IC you know, being my first time and all, even harder.

Jmo, we're just asking you to be a little more open. Surely you know how activity starved day 1 can be in mafia.

Hadn't been checking often because nothing had been happening for most of the game... It looks like things have picked up a lot. Will have a post commenting on everything tonight.

You suck for thinking ignoring a game will help activity. I'm watching this post, because this is exactly the type of prod dodge everyone forgets about.

Talah for me is a deadline lynch. In the past I can remember a lot of times where the town lynched the village noob only for them to be town, and for all the scummy things he's done I still prefer Tybalt. Jmo I'm not convinced of and no one else has done anything worth lynching.

also forgive me for making such long posts. I suffer from being too verbose.

[Honey bee]

Either way jmo still needs to post some actual opinions. Is "amished scumtell" all you really have to say about Talah? I want opinions on the rest of us.

[Honey bee]

What's so "not defensible" about greywing's reads, talah? Luigi's early posts were bad and he said that he only suspected mothrax on gut reasons. The mala thing he changed his mind on and that WASN'T a random vote. Otherwise I wouldn't have voted him. His questions are at least useful and he's picking up on posts which should be questioned. So while I find your sharp banter amusing, I'm not getting what your case is against him. Instead you should look over tybalt and maybe vote him.

Jmo I just don't get you. I feel like you're just testing my patience.

Are you admitting your scum?; Don't really see why you'd openly tell people to question whether your town or not town?

*roll eyes* yes, that is

exactly

what I was doing.
Go back and read again. Talah called me a strong town read, and there's really no good reason for it. When people put strong town reads on me I get suspicious, and I need to know why.

Greywing - Your reads are bizarre, voting as well.

No. This is not scummy. Just because you have a town read on mothrax and he has a bad feeling about mothrax does not make him scummy. You are wrong.

Jmo only has one vote on him from tybalt.

That sounds like scum.

Great analysis.

[Honey bee]

No, that reason just feels null in my opinion.

[Honey bee]

Because it's a stretch. You've had your vote on that slot for a while for poor reasons, and to declare it as scum over something small like "town cred" disagrees with me. Do you have anything else to say about gen_wolf?

[Honey bee]

Hi Tybalt. First off how long will you be V/la?

In this entire post, you say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how you think about jmo.

Excuse me, that was a section about you, not him. And I stated my opinion on him at the end of the post.

Jmo I'm not convinced of and no one else has done anything worth lynching.

Right now the only reason I'd vote him is at deadline, because his town cred argument on gen looks more like an excuse for having his vote on thane for so long.

So, your first point. My reads post was in response to questions by greywing and mala. And for jmo, the fact that he was a "popular candidate" is weird. Was I not the only one voting jmo at the time?

So? You notice that Mothrax, Talah and Fropome all had a scum read on him at the time. You voted with everyone's feelings and the vote doesn't make sense coming from you.

Furthermore, I said that I was making my observations based on only his iso, and I was not going to base it off of anyone else's opinions.

I think I would prefer it if, ya know, YOU ACTUALLY READ THE GAME. You can't expect me to believe that. I'd rather you honestly sheep than try to make some claim that I could only accept on faith.

Of course, I'm assuming that you won't believe me with your current mindset, so I won't push that particular case.

Is this suppose to be some sort of insult? very nice.

For your second point, does hypocrisy nullify any of the points I've made on jmo? Not only that, but how is defending by saying "oh, it's the way I've always played" valid or town?

Wowzas. Okay their is something seriously wrong with you if you can accept behavior from another player as scummy when you admit that your own behavior is the same. Surely you can see the blatant error in that. and that second part is completely out of context. You're point was that he was trying to stay out of the spotlight, and my point is he's super stubborn and very much in the spotlight. "its the way I've always played" is something a stubborn person would say, not someone who's avoiding conflict.
and that quote has nothing to do with whether he's Town or not. I do not believe I've ever said that.

And this is the first time I've looked at jmo. I've been vla for a chunk of this game, and the rest of it I haven't been focused on him until talah asked me to. My townreads came from general impressions on him, and upon further reading, that's the conclusion I came to.

ohh look at the excuses. Are all those reads you did earlier general impressions? It would be nice to know what you think.

And maybe while your at it you could clarify the vote you made so long ago that me and mala voted you on.

*words aimed at me*

Spoiler:

@HB:

I did mention at the time the reason for my town read on you, let me add another: you didn't try and tell me what I shouldn't be doing, as a noob, but rather provided feedback on what you perceived. Yours is a very good example of a playstyle and you're not afraid to provide information, and therefore not afraid you're going to trip yourself up later. That's a huge town read to me. Enough of an ego boost? (That last does not need to be answered, btw.)

Regarding tybalt, I think he's faxing his answers in but hasn't been particularly afraid to put himself on the line when he does come out with a statement or two. Also don't understand why he'd try to bus JMO.

Grey's reads (up to the point where you asked) are indefensible because 1) at the time he voted Luigi he actually had zero analysis and very little content of his own. He was voting someone else for something he was doing. 2) His read on me is based not on reasoning, but on a statement of fact without bothering to say why me throwing my vote around is a "bad thing". 3) The mothrax, and all other votes, either have 'gut feel'
or simply no reasoning at all. That's unhelpful at best, scum-tactics at worst.

Okay. I'm getting a feeling of what you are picking up on and the way you see the game. I encourage you though to rethink about your reasons, because a lot of what your saying about greu doesn't come across. For example grey did vote mala before luigi, and even though I disagreed with his analysis, it's still analysis.
As for tybalt, I think you should remember that mafia really don't want attention, and that means you have to make statements to satisfy they're actually doing something. Does any of it come across as genuine to you? To me it doesn't, which is why I'm voting him.

@Mala: What do you think about jmo's and tybalt's recent posts? do you still have a scum read on the luigi/talah slot?

:D

*fluff* I like this song :3 *fluff*

[Honey bee]

Hyperion is fromope who was uo.

Oh to answer questions.

My dilemma is you are making me laugh.. Which is either you trying to deflect or make the situation neutral.. Which can be done by either alignment, but sometimes more by town. I still think you're mafia though..

@Youbemyhoney:

I still don't like JMO. I'm willing to switch over to him because there's a chance he'll flip mafia over town more.
I still am leaning town on Tybalt

okay, good to know.

Mothrax, are you gonna come back?

[Honey bee]

Yeah, I changed my mind about Talah. I believe he's more of a dumb townie. His reasoning on jmo and Grey seems are more fleshed out and clearer now, and his early reads of Mala and Thane look more like paranoia for being a wagon. It doesn't look like an act, while jmo feels like he's playing stupid at the moment. I don't really get how he can be so clueless about a game when he has 60 (!) posts. And for all the questioning he's doing he's turning up nothing much about anyone's alignment. I'm not very confident, because this really seems like someone pushing their luck to see what they can get away with. I really would like him to stop tunneling and be more open, but so far that hasn't worked so I can't read anything past that.

Other than that I haven't seen anything I'd support a lynch. Grey's posts are good and gen_wolf looks okay to me. I see the sort of catch up posts that are mostly reaction rather than analysis too often, so I'm not going to hold that against him. Others I have investigated but nothings turned up, such as Mothrax, Hyperion, and Mala. I'd like Hyperion and Mothrax to post their thoughts before deadline comes, especially Hyperion since he never fully made a catch up post (or place down a vote for that matter). So yes, I can't support any other bandwagon so far.

What do you find about gut reads scummy though? I think they're okay so long as your vote isn't completely gut. It is at least something for future reference to see how consistent he is. Is jmo still scummy, or are you trying to pressure grey for now?

I will have to think about what you said though. The hypocrisy part is what really bothers me, though your other answers make sense to me. Your bandwagon doesn't appear to be happening, so I think I will have to compromise. :/ We have less than 4 days, and activity so far hasn't allowed for much to happen in 4 days.

Fucking hell.
I'm confusing names too! >.>

um what. what did you confuse?

[Honey bee]

Well that happened.

First off he's at l-2. Tybalt unvoted him for grey, and talah/mothrax/gen are voting him now.

Claims are usually given when someone is threatening to hammer, which is not right now.

VOTE: mala

Care to dance?

I voted mala to pressure her?

You pressured her to dance? Usually, when you pressure someone, you want them to answer to something. I'm not seeing that.

It's pretty easy to call scum out when you're getting Waggoned because you see when people jump on you for shit reasons. JUST. LIKE. YOU. DID. I've called scum correctly in this very manner, many times, so stop trying to discount my claim for calling you scum.

Mothrax was suspicious of you for a while and for the lack of content you've provided you shouldn't be surprised. Is it really your excuse that you can't identify scum until you're bandwagoned? There is no inconsistency in his read and that vote was really off looking.

Morthax is scum.
Trust me on this one

Also please stop it with the ethos cred. Your words should defend you not your experience.

VOTE: Tybalt

You never explained unvoting JMO at the time and you are tarring he and myself with the same brush. That's bewildering without an explanation and you backed down from HB's interrogation without any 'defence' but rather a few apologetic sentences and a 'Please don't put words in my mouth' statement which comes across as a non-statement.

VOTE: JMO

:| Do you wanna pressure him or not? You said you were convinced jmo was scum.

Tunneling, no other defined reads outside of his one of Thane (now Gen?). In general this is bad, but for an IC, you are really teaching these newbies nothing. Leaning scum

Does that second part really have to do with how suspicious he is? Also I notice this is the only definite scum read you have, while 5 other people you sound pretty confident is town.

What do you like about Tybalt's analysis? I've made a couple of posts about his analysis. Do you disagree with me?

Honeybee, are you sure youre a newb?

I've played mafia games elsewhere, So I do know what I'm doing (⌐■_■).

[Honey bee]

First, Jmo is town in my opinion. He's acting anti-town, but not like scum, if that makes sense.
I also read some of his other games, and it honestly seems in character for him.

No, it really doesn't. That's quite a jump from scum to town, and that reason don't satisfy me. Also didn't you say: “how is defending by saying "oh, it's the way I've always played valid or town?” Are you using his meta or not?
Maybe I'm being too stubborn, but you're setting off my scum-dar so badly. Please post your reads before the Day ends.

Jmo, you better answer on what was the reasoning of that pressure vote.

VOTE: Mothrax

I don't believe Jmo's scum. This is a scum-driven wagon and Mothrax fell for Jmo's bait (the vote on Mala.) Mothrax's vote was so blatantly opportunistic.

Uh yeah, this bothers me. This post coming in and making generalizations about it being a scum wagon, assuming things like it being a gambit without any concern about jmo's original vote (it was not a gambit), “Blatantly opportunistic” which is hyperbole and something I just don't see I guess. Just isn't sitting right with me.
How about you explain this wagon you just joined?

[Honey bee]

Honey bee: are Tybalt and grey wing both my scum partners?

I'm asking you to look at M's given reason for his all-of-the-sudden vote.

Well

excuse me

for pressuring things I don't like. If you could be so kind as to answer my question please.

Yeah, I noticed. That's basically what the past 2 pages have been. Your arguments didn't convince me and you being extraordinarily opaque hasn't helped your case. I don't wanna vote you, so ease my mind please.

Hey Grey why are you so convinced that JMO is dying? Isn't in possible the lynch could easily be moved onto someone else?

This is a good point.

[Honey bee]

uh, what?

Jmo, you better answer on what was the reasoning of that pressure vote.

this. answer this.

[Honey bee]

Yeah but did she actually do anything that you wanted to pressure her for or did you just randomly vote her?

[Honey bee]

Tybalt, Grey, and Hyperion are on my bad list, from greatest to least.

Jmo please stop with all the paranoia stuff, It's not helping. I'm not going to get night killed.

why would I night kill myself :P

Mala, tell me your reads as of now. And maybe help me sell the Tybalt lynch.

[Honey bee]

Oh your avatar is so appropriate Talah. You are very energetic.

No I don't want him to claim. All slots are useful, no matter how confusing. My confidence in him flipping scum is low, because he's been the center of attention all game and the way people are reacting around him are more bothering than himself. It is likely in my opinion that the scum are avoiding his wagon because they know he can be lynched on his own merits. Look at how fast tybalt fell off his wagon for... a gut read? He fleshed out his opinion on him before hand, and then just fell off saying "well he's obviously just anti-town". Look at how quickly grey jumped on the counter wagon, and then assumed jmo's will obviously be the lynch for the day.

Jmo himself really just doesn't make much sense to me as scum. How would you consider his play to be? He's all over this thread, he hasn't bothered to defend himself. I just can't bring myself to support this lynch, considering other players.

I'll expand on this later if need be.

[Honey bee]

VOTE: JMO

Tunneling sure is scummy, eh?

So is teachin' them newbies nothing, what typical scum behavior.

Is that all you got to say?

[Honey bee]

Unoffical vote count:

Greywing (1): tybalt
tybalt (2): Honey bee, Malakittens
Mothrax (2): jmo16mla, Greywing
jmo16mla (4): Gen_Wolf, Talah, Mothrax, Hyperion

Vote History:

Spoiler:

ThaneArvan:Vote: Luigilewis889
Gen_wolf: Vote JMO

uoyeluri: Vote: Mothrax
Fropome: -
Hyperion: Vote: jmo

Greywing: Vote: uoyeluri, Vote: Malakittens, Vote: Luigilewis889, Vote: Mothrax

Honey bee: Vote: Greywing, Vote: tybalt

jmo16mla: Vote: Honey bee, Vote: Greywing, Vote: ThaneArvan, Vote: Malakittens, Vote: Mothrax

Luigilewis889: Vote: Greywing, Vote: ThaneArvan
talah: Vote: Greywing, Vote: Malakittens, Vote: jmo16mla, Unvote, Vote: Greywing, Vote: ThaneArvan, Unvote, Vote: Greywing, Vote: jmo16mla, Vote: tybalt, Vote: jmo16mla

Malakittens: Vote: jmo16mla, Unvote, Vote: tybalt

mothrax: Vote: tybalt, Vote: Greywing, Vote: jmo16mla

tybalt: Vote: ThaneArvan, Vote: jmo16mla, Vote: greywing

The only people I'm really care to vote right now are Hyperion and tybalt, and possibly grey but I dunno. I agree we can't have a No lynch, so i'll see where we stand later and support whatever lynch I think will be most likely to flip scum.

[Honey bee]

Thank you Rach! Unfortunate you have to mod in those circumstances :(.

@HB: Last try. I'm appealing to your sense of reason. Occam's Razor. If you identify the scum you don't need to go complicating things further if the facts fit the theory exactly, and if the theory was born of facts in the first place.
Tybalt has been so incautious and seemingly distracted I would say he thinks he can explain his way out of whatever he says (eg impulsive gut decisions). The others are fairly advanced players who have a certain cautiousness of playstyle anyway, but have been able to expand on their thinking when pressed.

I am a bit confused. I don't think my thoughts about tybalt are too complicated; What I am examining is his reads and nothing much more than that. Being incautious and seemingly distracted doesn't have much of an effect on my read on him, and I feel that is more of his personality than alignment based.

I sound like a broken record, but if you look at his vote history and his reads, you will find the inconsistencies that point tybalt towards scum. Mala pointed out the problem in his first vote. His second vote I pointed out the hypocrisy in his accusations against jmo. His defense of that vote, where he accuses me of avoiding discussing jmo (which I did later in the post) and how he states that being hypocritical does not mean his arguments are invalid, is such an awful shift of accusation. Tybalt never really explained how his vote was justified. Also look at that defense post (where I'm accused of not acknowledging his points about jmo) and his town read of jmo, moving his vote to greywing. Only a 30 post gap, in which jmo makes no post that should give jmo a town read. Plus, I think voting someone because they had a gut read on someone is bad as well. Compared to his accusation on jmo, he barely says anything about grey, or even why gut reads are scummy, or any good reason on why he changed his mind. If I were to make a guess, tybalt probably fell off the wagon because you put him at L-2. As I said earlier, scum prefer to lynch without being on the wagon.
I know I'm pretty stubborn, but I notice you people are at least conceding on some of my points, so there has to be some truth to it.

I'm interested in a Hyperion lynch. I already prodded you for the reasons you had a scum read on jmo, but to come in to vote him around deadline and ignore all the information (info that differed from your original read) about mothrax's and jmo's cases against each other makes me think you are the one who is coasting on the jmo wagon. Also I'm not a fan of how you offer to hammer in post 290 and later in post post 351 state you're going to read and decide where to place your vote. Why exactly were you in a rush to hammer him?
Also you ignored my other question and that hurt my feelings >:(.

What do you like about Tybalt's analysis? I've made a couple of posts about his analysis. Do you disagree with me?

O Baby Jaymo, you must be so sweeeeepy!

Stop it.

[Honey bee]

Tell me, objectively, is that pro-town play?

Wrong. Anti-town =/= Scum. And I already told you slots are useful no matter how difficult they are to work with. If I were to advocate policy lynching you'd both be gone forever ago.

Briefly regarding Tybalt, I think he's fallen for the hard emotional tactics too. Look at the context of where he placed his vote on grey, an the discussion between JMO and I that preceded it. I fell for it too, btw.

Wrong again. Don't make assumptions and put words in other peoples mouths, tybalt needs to answer for himself. It still stands that he unvoted for no good reason.

Not hammering JMO long before deadline when he's obviously anti-town and just making things harder for everyone, makes me withhold my read until I learn the reason.

Wow really. The reasons why everything is so difficult is that you're both slapfighting each other and making this game full of crap posts irritating each other. I'm want to vote people who I think is scum, thank you very much. If you want to get someone to hammer for you, why don't you ask mala who has been implying jmo is scum but has never actually voted him. Otherwise you'll just have to be patient, as I won't vote him until I have to.

[Honey bee]

Grey, why do you think mothrax is scum? Because he didn't like a vote?

Townslips aren't that reliable imo. I've faked stuff in order to get towned, so I'd think it naive to confirm jmo as town.

Thank you mala for the reads. Waiting for wonderful posts from hyperion and tybalt as they've promised them for quite a while.

Also I highly doubt mothrax is scum. I don't see it AT ALL. He didn't like jmo's poor play through most of the day, he didn't like jmo's excuses, and after making a vote lacking context he voted jmo. These reasons aren't strong but I don't think they're scummy.

I should be around a computer until deadline, so I'm here to discuss and vote as needed.

[Honey bee]

I dunno, he stated talah was scummy around the time he said jmo scummy, and disappeared for the most part between that read and him switching. I don't see why he can't change his mind on which one is scummier. I do agree he doesn't get a free pass, but I think in most instances town will switch when they see a bad vote. He voted you also wayyy back for something that happened on page 1-2, so to me it seems like a better time to switch with new information.

Of course, I'd like mothrax to explain if those first few posts are why he still has a scum read on you.

Tues and I'm back, ketchup to be released. Get ready!!!!!

Great! We only have 15 hours! Hurry up!

[Honey bee]

Around 7 ish hours.

I think tybalt is a good lynch but we'd have to lynch him without a claim. I thought he'd come back but I guess not.

Hyperion also decided to not come back either :/.

[Honey bee]

Because I have had no one else to vote for. Yes, I should probably have unvoted but the wagon was no longer their and thus there is no longer any danger of an imminent hammer.

This game has hit a standstill. I thought once I went to sleep I would wake up to lots of activity and all that. We need to lynch someone else D2 will be the exact same as now. I am still happy with a JMO lynch. He has been my biggest scum read the whole day and because nothing else seems to be happening..

Okay maybe I'm seeing the case for gen_wolf.

[Honey bee]

"I'm not going to join a bandwagon because we need a lynch!" -gen_wolf

Tybalt is at l-1 just so everyone knows.

Gen, do you believe jmo townslipped or not?

[Honey bee]

we're allowed to make twilight posts, correct?

I want that questioned answered by gen, so if I die someone make sure he does it.

[Honey bee]

mala, me, talah, jmo, greywing.

To all those still on the Jmo wagon: Care to explain why you still think this is a viable lynch after Jmo's Townslip after he believed he was hammered? I'm specifically looking at Mothrax and Wolf, as they've both posted since.

Because I have had no one else to vote for. Yes, I should probably have unvoted but the wagon was no longer their and thus there is no longer any danger of an imminent hammer.

These quote says differently.

[Honey bee]

Thanks for answering :) its obvious though I need to reread you.

Why you attacking me straight away? According to you, you have just voted off scum and thus should be celebrating. We are waiting to see his alliance when rach posts but you are acting like you already know the answer?

I need to know answers to questions while they're fresh in my mind. I don't know the flip which is why I try to collect as much information as I can.

[Honey bee]

Well I'm glad we won in spite of my shenanigans. Gj town.