Newbie 1381 Oakhaven is Overrun Game Over

[N64Lord]

I'm replacing talah, currently up to page thirteen, hope for a good game.

[N64Lord]

My thoughts.(Besides the fact that NS was

really

[b/]

leading the replacements on with the whole "an interesting and worthwhile read"

Hyperion looked like a VT who wanted to sheep, but didn't know what to go with before jmo's wagon was in full swing, then awkwardly joined it, only to find out he was going to have to do a lot of the pushing, after the activity falloff d2, he does the same thing for greywing's wagon, but he does not bother to clear jmo and uses other people's reasons for switching.

Malakitten feels like a fencesitter to me, since most of his posts were to diffuse arguments, thankfully more to prevent people from over-reaching than fluff questions. Don't like how he never takes a big stand on scummy players, but I mostly agree with how he points out the weaknesses of each wagon, even though I feel he was capable of hunting more himself....

JMO's posts are just painful to read. He admits how awful he played early-mid d1, but I didn't like how all he started d2 off with was a lurker vote, followed by his support of the greywing wagon, which I never felt was sincere. I agree with malakitte/ TIP that his actions don't seem to add up for an actual scum, and that his intents actually make sense given the progression of d1.

Gen_Wolf is a little confrontational d1, which I don't expect from scum, but obviously a pressure vote is useless if it's known to be such and no one else stacks with it, then on d2, mostly with 541, he "notices" the freezer l-1 and is generally loud about recent pro-town activity. Then most of his d2 after refrains from posting new opinions or hunts, since he's somehow confident again.

Finger of Suspicion

[b/]

So anyway, its a lot later than I want to play, but I'll say that the only person I can pretend to rely on being town is JMO, and while I'm directing my fire at gen_wolf, I won't really go between you 3 based on how this game went.

[N64Lord]

You do realize that hyperion slots number would be nearly .466 if he had a greater number of posts(with the same strongly scummy to strongly town ratio)

Gen Wolf's arguments on d3 are mostly that jmo and TIP are doing mylo recklessly and a need for everyone to post their reads on who the two scum are.

Well, that makes sense
I know people have said that jmo is scummy, but his ISO doesn't jump out at me. I won't be voting him anytime soon.
Tamuz is kind of null right now, but I don't know how to feel of this last post, because he is rushing
Gen_Wolf is nullscum, he's definitely not Town, and that's why I want to see the replacement
Popcorn to Tamuz; reads, if you would

I disagree. I personally feel a no lynch would be better but I have been shunned upon lately. I disagree with the logic.

the question seems genuine and the part in the middle is pure fluff filling the post?

vote jmo.

you should have been lynched d1

Even if he is talking about d2, I don't see this coming from town, and he plays up that the vote was due to frustration.

[N64Lord]

I didn't find malakittens good townstanding to be well-founded...

Hi I will get an avatar sometime soon

While you are at it. You should place an RVS vote down too.

I don't see how Jmo's vote went unnoticed. It was odd to me and I asked. How did you end up missing that?
I still find your random vote on Grey to be off as I said replacing someone in a slot is a null tell.
Grey missioned accomplished. Want to remove your vote now?

You can't do the thing I just encouraged, I don't want someone with anti-town posts buddying me!

ThaneArvan,

You are still side-lining though. You haven't placed a vote. Do you have any scum-suspects worthy enough for a vote?

You're not being productive, you should devote more time to making lists rather than asking people questions about the content of their posts!

That's an oppurnist vote if I ever seen one.
It's null tell because town can be afaird to pressure. I remember my first ever game. I was scared to pressure.
Okay my top two scum list is { Tybalt, Lugi}

You know how I don't like weak votes, well I want you to know that over-eager people are the real scum.

It doesn't. I want to know where you stand with reads. Your vote is just weak because it was for 'pressure' now there's no reason for it to stay.

I want you to unvote, using your vote is just plain rude.

@Talah:

I have a question. Why ask filler questions regarding the mafia experience now in Day 2. Why didn't you ask during Day 1? Where it was more suitable to do so.
I don't know if I like how you jumped onto the Grey wagon once he got a vote on him. If you though he was scum why didn't you vote him before Gen?

I think I have to agree with Hyper. HB was super town and usually super town are first to go because they can't be pushed as a mislynch and they lead lynches.
Talah I already gave you my thoughts on Grey. I disagree with your thoughts on Grey because he's kinda playing to his town meta. So if it was a choice between Grey / Gen it would have to be Gen, but that's after I eliminate Grey because he's playing to meta. You could be scum yes. I also noticed after I called you out for large activity your activity decreased.
Also where are the rest of you?

This is called making more room to manuver in case any of the above become the focus of a wagon later in the game, it's important that I also bring up wifom on the nightkill, since that is something that clearly can't be taken either way and lead town into wasting more time.

Kay, fine I won't be subbing out, but if someone throws Mala is lurking in my face - I'll scream.
@Jmo:
The vote on GIF is just a pressure vote? Or does it have something to do with the slot?~~
I do have to admit the activity is pretty bad right now and I'm sorry I'm not helping much.

I'll apolgize for your low activity, but you have to promise to unvote every third post.

Malakittens never really pushes through on any scumhunts, and is generally ok with letting his distracting questions go unanswered, he also makes sure he is never tied down on any read, and while he does defuse some pointless arguments, he also slows down any information building wagons. He's great at being "hurt" by the stupid stuff that went on in this game, but hardly bothers to make sure the guilty party is punished; He'll even do the whole act over again if someone does the hunting for him. TIP inherited this mess, and isn't going to bring miracles. I'm ready to believe he is scum now.

[N64Lord]

There is no counterclaim, but BP may or may not even be in the game, moreover, knowing there is only 1 BP, you could have clamied early d3 , and led the scumhunting, even if you were unsure of your reads, discussion usually helps, you know. Instead you spend a long twilight and then a d3 throwing out generalities, and trying to get people to understand your policy lynch. My other concern was that you were working fairly openly to buddy JMO, who's 3 vote would allow you to end the game.

Finally the concern about quickhammering, in a game where all players have a degree of neutral behavior, would only be an isue if scum expected town to act randomly, forcing a situation where all 3 town would have to vote before the scum laid their votes, but painting that as anti-town behavior. VOTE: TheIrishPope

[N64Lord]

Oh come on tamuz, bushammer on your scumbuddy, it was pretty clear that you were goading town with your "ready to vote TIP" at the end of you ISO on him. Honsetly I expected you to provide a mini ISO on talah to bolster your n64loord as scum pitch. Maybe the thought of having to go through another 46 post long twilight of one liners is gettting to you?

[N64Lord]

Sorry, I prioritized an out of state concert over a forum game with people whom existential theory dictates may or may not exist.

Given that scum immediately win on town lynch, and also given that both jmo and tamuz had the oppurtunity to post while TIP was at l-1, then we can assume scum dosen't want the lynch to go through. also exposes the possible scumteams.

Option A. TIP, scum is being voted by one scum and one town.
Option B. TIP, scum is beung voted by two town in me and gen wolf.
Option C. TIP, town is being voted by both scum.
I'm not accusing the scum of being halfway decent, but under any other situation,scum could have forced a win with a single vote. Now, I have to read though whatever has happened since I was away.

[N64Lord]

I see very little in Gen Wolf's posts that would help us catch scum. Its alot of "I agree" or "I disagree" on matters of gameplay that are more about mafia theory than the game at hand. Theres just not alot of substance. Also, he replaced THane, who was on the sidelines, and didnt do anything. I'm leaning scum, but would like to hear alot more from Gen Wolf since he just replaced in.

Isoing Honeybee and Talah give me the same feels as my original read through did. Honeybee puts alot of pressure and analyzes into each and every one of her posts. Talah on the other hand, clearly has no idea what he is doing, and looking at the way he is posting, I find it very hard for him to be scum because if he was I feel like he would be making more of an effort to scumhunt instead of posting plays. He is town, but is a liability do to his lack of knowledge/skill. I am 90% sure that both are town.


Will do more later.

So hyperion(tamuz's slot) begins his game with a bunch of fairly neutral reads, and he makes sure to word these so he can maneuver around should these people unload scumtells, or as it happens, he needs to post a scum read for content. I find him putting as many town reads as he did to be somewhat self-aware, and you can see him trying to frame these people's post as pro-town.

Kitty
Town. Puts alot of pressure in alot of different directions. I might maybe (but probably not due to my schedule) go looking for one of her scum games during night phase to see what she is like as scum, but for now I am still confident in my read of her.

Responding to Mothrax.
Looking back, I saw very little defense of JMO by GW. The big one is this.

VOTE: mala

Care to dance?

This vote is really really bad.

Vote: JMO

That's

l-1

I agree with Jmo. Scum caught.

VOTE: Mothrax

I don't believe Jmo's scum. This is a scum-driven wagon and Mothrax fell for Jmo's bait (the vote on Mala.) Mothrax's vote was so blatantly opportunistic.

I'd wager that the other scum is on this wagon too and pushing it heavily: one of Talah/GenWolf.

He claims it was a gambit and attacks Mothrax, then he says he doesnt think JMO is scum (no explanation) and says the wagon is scum driven.
The majority of his defense is actuallt attacking MOthrax

I already gave my reads, but ok, I'll bite.

I don't know. Could potentially be scum, but he's not among my bigger scumreads.

This is an older post of Grey's, he thinks JMO could be scum. THen he leaves and comes back like 4 ish pages later defending him.

Defense=Bad.
Possibly scum buddies. Possibly SCum GW setting up a MOthrax lynch if JMO flips town. Possilby Grey is town and he is just defending the wrong person.

This is an awful post, where he attacks GreyWing as scum, when all he can provide to back him up aretwo "contradictory" posts which actually both say that greywing doesn't think gmo is scum. He also takes the opportunity to tell off greywing for making a post that amounts to asking morthax to explain his vote, and latches onto greywing really slowly, instead of straight out confronting him to explain his reads. He's still trying to go neutral at the end.

OK, so, thinking about the HB kill. Night kill analyses would get us nothing, as it was a rather obvious kill since she was town as fuck and everyone else in the game had at least 1 person suspecting them. Tonights kill will probably be pretty informative.

Looking at nightkills is WIFOM and generally doesn't help town, but I'm going to waste your time with it for as long as I can get away with.

Sure you can ask me anything.

"Guys, guys, look how cooperative I am! Ignore the fact that my predecessor dropped scum-tells, I've jumped on every available wagon in order to push a lynch, and have continuously posted fluff in order to look active...I'm willing to do anything for you guys, I *must* be Town!"

VOTE: Talah

Is this the most important reason for you voting him? You don't even mention anything prior to this being scummy, but then this six word statement garners a vote on day 2. Bad vote

While I'm answering questions, I might as well throw in:

(...)
You say mothrax would have been blameless for a no lynch

but I also see no way we can blame him in this situation as he was not on the wagon?

Care to quote where I said this?

Grey this is ridiculous. Why didn't you drop back in and say oops when you re-read it and realised (probably moments after posting it) that you've misread the sentence? Seems like you have time to drop in whenever you want to make a demand or place some allusion on someone's intent but absolutely no time to answer the questions given to you. This is pretty much the same complaint I had of jmo to start with, but I have to re-read jmo in light of heavy tunnelling. If you're doing the same thing to me, and ignoring my own questions, from experience it can be a slippery slope.

Explain to me what I misread.

As well, I have no time to answer questions from

scum reads.

I've been perfectly happy answering questions from Honey, Jmo and Mala since I trust them.

But answering questions allows for more information out into the town, helping to focus your thoughts and helping us catch scum. Besides just because they are your scum reads does not mean they can't possibly be town. This is a cop out to keep from answering questions.

So this:

@Jmo: Before someone hammers you, do you see Talah as the most likely partner for Mothrax then?

Why did you ask this? How does it help town?

...And other recent questions from Gen, and previous questions, go completely unanswered. (I give you credit for your most recent post which is actually a direct answer.) But seriously, we need to scumhunt, which means if you're town you need to be open to answering all kinds of questions, not just the ones that suit you. You had that attitude early on yourself pestering Tybalt (or Thane?) for the answer to a question. Y U NO answer questions?

I'll answer the first question for you, since you clearly have some problems putting information together.

I assumed Jmo was soon to be dead due to the wagon forming, and the reads of the playerlist regarding him. I wanted his opinion before he died. I fail to grasp why this was so tough to understand.

My thoughts/comments are in bold. Also Gen's hop onto the GIF wagon was pathetically opurtunistic.
Gen or Grey wagons both have my stamp of approval.
VOTE: Grey

To the last, he wants to make sure he has the go-ahead to switch between wagons without being called out for consistency. He brings up a generic measure of scuminess "not answering questions makes them be passed over easily in the future and is anti-town" doesn't seem to notice that people bringing up posts unrelated to the main wagons are just as fluffy as what he calls calling out my own ability to understand.

jmo. I do not think you are scum.
If you don't think I am scum, I think the better play is to lynch from [Gen_wolf, N64] today. I can go through the whole reasoning, but you should be able to work through the logic, given our conditionally innocence.

It is awful annoying that there is a post flurry that spawns questions and then nobody answers any of them or tries to introduce new thoughts (outside of we two) here, but what can you do.

I would like to hear Gen answer the questions pointed to him. I would like N64 to rephrase the thing I don't understand... or at least make an effort to make me understand it. I'd also like TIP to tell me who he thinks the two scum are and at least 2 sentences per person of why.

If I'm lucky I get 1/3, but they'd all be nice.


(of course there is always a possibility that TIP is town and jmo or I are mafia and we're just being cocky assholes, but I shudder to think anyone believes this.)

He's letting people see that he knows TIP is mafia here....but the motive of this post is too buddy jmo, and that apperently includes giving TIP a chance to prove being town. He calls it the stupidtest, and it's done nothing to give TIP a chance to make a town post, instead it lets him claim"voting me or jmo is a scum action" He's buddied with jmo, kept his ability to stand on scum TIP, and now he's going to go knock on both my and gen_wolf's doors(regardless of TIP definitely only having one partner), and all for jmo's "benefit".

If there are any questions directed at me, I'd gladly take them.
lol at the two sentences.
N64: His whole slot has been controversial. I feel he is scum because he is non-committed and wants to lynch everything in his way. Town would be more conservative and careful.
Gen: His coordinated attack to lynch me with N64 makes perfect sense. Admits that this vote is OMGUS (which I see as scummy). Then throws the word "bus" around. Say what now?
You two are not scum. Tamuz, you would be flailing more. jmo, you would be frustrated differently.

This whole posts shows why TIP is scum, he's clearly buddying the active people who have "weakened" and his n64 and gen wolf as scum is based off of generalities again, as for being conservative, I posted an ISO on the slot you replaced, had to live with jmo and tamuz, "agreeing" with me by jmo's vote and tamuz ISO, and when I voted you, I provided my response to your claim(it's fake) and I poke into how the other player's received it in hopes of catching your partner.

[N64Lord]

I going to agree with tamuz is overbearing. In a lylo as murky as this one, (early d3) then the three town would be forced to vote before either of the scum voted if scum wanted any votes to be in stone, as calling out d2 and d1 be3havior, is actually shaky for all three players, given a combination of activity falloff, circular arguments, and overreadiness to back down.
That didn't happen, but it was how I saw the game. I "see" tamuz as scummy because if either me or gen had a VT role pm, and we beleived the proof on why jmo and tamuz are town(not hammering), then both of us would have no option for the rest of d3 but to tunnel on TIP. You're the one using people as marionettes. This is also the basis of calling you out for knowing TIP is scum. I actually liked jmo much more than gen wol, but since he was defended by malakittens(TIP slot) and you.... I can't ignore a scum content defense, even with your clear cut one.

[N64Lord]

I feel like jmo is distancing from tamuz. Jmo's "gambit" on TIP was supportable because of how awful TIP responded to it, not because jmo laid out any new points on TIP. Poking at someone can cover up
@gen_wolf you're claiming that you've claimed. We're not worried about you because you can see someone's intent to lynch you, we're worried because you because the only question you know how to ask is "you know your point is null since it would end game"
@jmo if you give confirmed town to everyone who didn't hammer, that leaves scum as me and TIP............But if TIP was scum, then both town and scum would not hammer.
@TIP did you just change your intent vote to jmo?
TIP is scum, tamuz's proof as to how TIP could be town has led to "anyone could be his partner, but only TIP and N64 never thought TIP was town"

[N64Lord]

We do have to come to a compromise, since town loses at no lynch as well. Gen wolf's answers to questions are evasive, and I don't feel like his omgus vote on you is on a genuine scumspect of his. TIP hasn't dne anything original enough for me to think of hm as town though.

[N64Lord]

TIP just made a scum team based on omgus+easy lynches, with no mention of their history, I wish I had the foresight to see that earlier!

[N64Lord]

I came in and made the case on malakittens being an active lurker, but after that I was genuinely stupid in immdiately sticking TIP without really paying any attention to the case on gen_wolf, especially since I agreed on most of the points against him. I kinda waste time yelling at tamuz for a while before he realizes I know I made stupid posts. Then we're finally able to admit that we aggree with each other's scum reads. The town lynching honeybee, guy in freezer was really terrible since their posts reeked of town intent, and the original argument on greywing was pretty shaky, though his play kinda weakened at the same time, so It was a fair mislynch.

[N64Lord]

I came in and made the case on malakittens being an active lurker, but after that I was genuinely stupid in immdiately sticking TIP without really paying any attention to the case on gen_wolf, especially since I agreed on most of the points against him. I kinda waste time yelling at tamuz for a while before he realizes I know I made stupid posts. Then we're finally able to admit that we aggree with each other's scum reads. The town lynching honeybee, guy in freezer was really terrible since their posts reeked of town intent, and the original argument on greywing was pretty shaky, though his play kinda weakened at the same time, so It was a fair mislynch.

[N64Lord]

even in post analysis, I make mortal sins with the phpbbcode.