Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone Mafia Game Over

[penguin_alien]

Is the convention to call you p_a or penguin here?

I have no preference.

VOTE: Saint

Reaching much?

[penguin_alien]

"why participate as he kinda did in #8?"
how was i participating?
this was bugging me, so I have to address it....
I was saying my vote was relatively serious, to try to create discussion, to end the RVS
I showed a pro-town action, because I HATE GETTING VOTED IN THE RVS WITH NO REASONING
i actually hate getting voted ANY TIME IN THE GAME with no reasoning
I like reasoning behind votes, to see who is feigning, and who is trying to decipher who is scum based upon it, GHOSTLIN.

So you're saying that you believed there was a good chance ArcAngel9 was scum for replying to someone's greeting and voting them? (I assumed that your use of 'pseudo-serious' was meant to mean 'sort of serious' rather than 'falsely serious', which appears to have been the correct interpretation) If so, can you point to something in ArcAngel9's history or your own experience to indicate that is the case?

And I'd say that while I certainly wasn't thinking 'MUST BE SCUM, WILL NOT BE SWAYED!' when I voted, Saint's reaction to having two votes on him was rather over the top if he's town.

vote: Safety_Dance blatant OMGUS, but I am a man of my word
I don't even really want to vote you - I like your name... I like the song... whatever.

I don't like the RVS. I would rather have RQS. RVS is idiotic. It creates silly wagons on town (AND LOW AND BEHOLD THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT THIS HAS A WAGON ON THEM HMMM)
vote: Safety_Dance

So if you don't want to vote him but want to keep your word, why not vote and unvote? If you want RQS, try to start RQS. I've never played in a game with it, so I can't say from experience how it compares to RVS.

I hate RVS.

I also hate both Saint's and PA's reactions equally.

How can you hate RVS and simultaneously not agree with people who share the same idea?

Never said I hate RVS, I'm just not looking for excuses to stay there. Happily someone pinged my scumdar with his theory that responding to a greeting and voting was scummy.

Sheeping DV's vote. Duh

In all seriousness, penguin's vote seemed a bit opportunistic and there is enough in play to start moving out from RVS.

In what sense are you using 'opportunistic'? My interpretation of opportunistic votes being scummy is when scum see a lynch going down and hop on without much scrutiny. Being the second vote on a wagon hardly fits that. If by opportunistic you mean 'saw an opportunity to apply pressure to someone posting something scummy' then I'll agree, but I don't consider that scummy. And what do you think of Saint's response to having several votes on him, independent of my having placed one of them?

fuzzybutternut, Dobby isn't in this book. Although I suppose said sock could be, so I'll accept that. In slightly more relevant discussion, what's your take on the nearly two pages of activity since your (presumed) RVS vote?

[penguin_alien]

Aw, my first RQS...if only it weren't quite so sardonically initiated...

What is your favorite color? Red
What's your favorite season? Autumn
Are you cat or dog person? If other , please specify. Other (allergic to cats and dogs)--houseplants of any type, but cacti are my favorite
What do you like to do to relax? Ceramics
So, do you watch any sports? Yes, tennis, swimming, some team stuff depending on who's playing, ESPN seems to think the poker I watch is a sport...!
Which broomstick brand was more revolutionary for its time - Cleansweep or Nimbus? Cleansweep
Just how good are socks? Especially nice, thick, warm woolly pairs? Not woolly ones--allergic again
If you had a nice pair of socks would you waste it on a house elf? Eh, sure
Voldemort vs Sauron, who wins? Sauron

Being the second vote on a wagon can have either town or scum motivations, hence why I want to apply pressure. It could be the sense of opportunistic you described, or it could be scum trying to apply pressure early to a townie to set up a mislynch.

Obviously I want to discern which it is.

How do you plan to do that? Voting me is all well and good, but it's not really engaging with my vote on Saint. You say you don't like him flailing--do you think he's endangered scum flailing or frustrated town flailing?

i would be much more comfortable voting penguin... due to being able to get the rest of the town to help me out on this... obvious reaching vote
"pinged their scumdar"... sure....
plus that #46 i think it was was fucking difficult for me to read

So you say you're interested in lynching someone because the rest of the town might help? Not because of a scum read? Sure, if we were near deadline and it came down to someone who was highly suspect with few votes and a middling suspicious person at L-1 or L-2, I can see that attitude. As it stands, this reads as hoping to blend in on a lynch. And why was #46 difficult for you to read? If something wasn't presented clearly, I'll aim to do better, but if you just don't like people finding you scummy, can't help you.

I apologize for my inactivity, I am currently in the hospital for appendicitis, and I will make a catch up post as soon as I get home.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

[penguin_alien]

Well I was hoping that a wagon would start on you so I could see you under pressure, but nobody else seemed to have the same idea (other than DV). So yes, let's talk about Saint.

His flailing seemed like scumflail at the start, but now I'd classify it more as nullflail. He at least seems to be doing some degree of scumhunting while trying to build a townblock of his strongest townreads. What I still don't like is that he's tunneling and not engaging with everyone. It means that if we lynch him, we only have his interactions/reads on a handful of players, so if he's scum he's limited our ability to get associative reads with everyone. Some good, some bad, so null.

What do you think of Mhork and DV, especially with respect to their interactions with each other and Saint?

I'd say lynching scum Day One would trump not having a complete set of interactions to work from. I do agree that he's more flailing in general now, but I still dislike his comment that he'd be more comfortable voting for me because he thinks others would be on the wagon, and he's ignored my follow-up on that. And I'd agree about his gathering town reads on people, except one of them is on AA9. And frankly I don't think she's been posting enough for anyone to classify her as town so definitively. She does have some tells that make her more likely to be town, but prod dodging isn't one of them.

As far as Lord Mhork and DeasVail go, I've been snowed by DeasVail scum before (/in-vitational 12) but he's not playing the same way. Then too he's not playing how he was when we were scum together, so it's kind of a wash. And I haven't played with him when he was town. As far as DeasVail's actual content here, he seems pro-town. If he and Lord Mhork are scum together, they're doing a pretty kick-ass job. Lord Mhork seems to be tunneling pretty narrowly so far, although I don't think I agree with the idea that him pointing out all the scumminess from Saint is scummy in turn--it's not his job to point out the towny things someone does if he thinks he's caught scum. And if he was, it would make me think he was getting ready to undermine his own case, indicating he didn't believe in it.

[penguin_alien]

Hey, ArcAngel9, why zero comments on anything past RVS? An opinion on Saint vs. Lord Mhork? Or anything else?

Jake from State Farm, your push on DeasVail doesn't track from an outside perspective. Is there some play history you have with him that makes you think what you're pointing out goes with him being scum? And I'm not sure why you don't see the problem with Saint going 'This quote here from ArcAngel9 [insert quote from DeasVail] is something town would say, so ArcAngel9 must be town.' If it's a mistake, fine, but why not acknowledge it promptly? It's easy to pull the wrong quote when assembling a post, but trying to hold onto a read with a demonstrable lack of basis isn't symptomatic of town trying to establish genuine reads.

Saint, first you find DeasVail's quote (the one attributed to AA9) very towny, you continually list him as a town read, and then off the fact that he asked you to back up the perfunctory moving of your vote from ArcAngel9 to SafetyDance, he becomes your top scum read? Can you break that down further? Because while I get keeping your word re: voting the next person who votes you, useless though such a move may be, your settling there for a time wasn't very pro-town and was worth questioning at the least.

[penguin_alien]

Hey, ArcAngel9, why zero comments on anything past RVS? An opinion on Saint vs. Lord Mhork? Or anything else?

Jake from State Farm, your push on DeasVail doesn't track from an outside perspective. Is there some play history you have with him that makes you think what you're pointing out goes with him being scum? And I'm not sure why you don't see the problem with Saint going 'This quote here from ArcAngel9 [insert quote from DeasVail] is something town would say, so ArcAngel9 must be town.' If it's a mistake, fine, but why not acknowledge it promptly? It's easy to pull the wrong quote when assembling a post, but trying to hold onto a read with a demonstrable lack of basis isn't symptomatic of town trying to establish genuine reads.

Saint, first you find DeasVail's quote (the one attributed to AA9) very towny, you continually list him as a town read, and then off the fact that he asked you to back up the perfunctory moving of your vote from ArcAngel9 to SafetyDance, he becomes your top scum read? Can you break that down further? Because while I get keeping your word re: voting the next person who votes you, useless though such a move may be, your settling there for a time wasn't very pro-town and was worth questioning at the least.

penguin your feeble attempts at appearing intelligent are seriously only coming across as a confusing mess
try to tone it down, please

don't analyze my play. it will be way over your head. thanks.

DoctorPepper is a nothing read, Ghostlin is a content-filled nothing read, Saint is a 'I don't even know what's going on, but maybe town' read, and TMT is still scummy but I want to see more.

finally, a female that admits she doesn't understand me
take notes, penguin alien

So you're posting like a rude and condescending misogynist. That doesn't address the question being asked.

Jake from State Farm, I'll buy that DeasVail pushed your buttons immediately with his 'altering fuzzybutternut's post' joke. The way you focused in on him so quickly seemed really definitive for never having played with him before.

As for why he's not currently a scum read for me, when I played with him as scum in the past, he tended to make cases based on extrapolating how people should be reacting to events, whereas here he's making cases based on actual posts. It's not a strong town read, but I'm certainly not interested in lynching him.

If I was fencesitting, then explain 125. [editing in 125 for reference]

If it comes down to Lord Mhork and Saint, I am voting Saint.

It wasn't an opinion, I changed it because I ignored some points that I hadn't looked at earlier.
You completely overreacted to a flip flop and it feels like you're pouncing on a nulltell.

VOTE: Ghostlin

TMTOLBTWNTOF, The thing I see here is that you're saying that if it comes down to lynching one of two people you'll pick one rather than not pick at all. I don't agree that it's fence-sitting, but it's really passive. At that point you weren't taking a stand and saying one person was a scum read. Between your conclusion from #124 and #125, you could make the argument that Saint was anything from a null to scum read, with Lord Mhork anywhere on the townier side of wherever you put Saint. And that's a stance that leaves you a lot of wiggle room depending on a flip.

WRT fuzzybutternut, according to his Wiki page he has two scum games completed. Both Newbie games, both drastically different in content than what he's posting here, or in completed town games that I've seen. Jake from State Farm, I agree that fuzzy isn't posting in a very pro-town manner, but his lack of scum hunting is dead-on his town meta. Maybe he's gotten better at playing to his town meta as scum, but without some reason to think that's the case, I'm doubtful.

[penguin_alien]

^have you looked at my Wiki recently? Did it not update? :S

I'm only seeing Newbie 1337 and Newbie 1340 listed as scum games. Some of them aren't mentioned as anything; are those two Newbie games your most recent completed scum games?

[penguin_alien]

No rush, as I'm turning in for the night, but if you give me the game names or numbers as you did for Venrob's, I can find them in your topics; no links necessary.

[penguin_alien]

misogny in games are always interesting when women are in them...

So nice that it makes things interesting for you.

Here's fuzzybutternut's most recent complete scum game I can find: link While it's worth considering that he's decided to switch up his meta as of this game, I'm not seeing a good reason to lynch him thus far. Is there anything in his fluff posting that makes you think he's scum?

ArcAngel9, why aren't you posting here? This seems like a game you'd be all over if you're town.

RachMarie, any scum reads yet?

Ghostlin, why do you think TMTOLBTWNTOF's changing his mind based on someone else's case is scummy?

Lord Mhork, what's your take on DeasVail with him shifting from voting you to Jake from State Farm?

[penguin_alien]

ArcAngel9, why aren't you posting here? This seems like a game you'd be all over if you're tow

I have been sick and away site wide..
are you scum?

I'm not scum. You? Why not post V/LA if you're V/LA?

Ghostlin town

Can we talk about this read, because I disagree.

You're asking to talk about a read but not kicking things off. You've been mentioning he's a scum read, but the most you've said about why is:

I don't like Ghost's vote for letters and subsequent only commenting on the modkill thing. Do like his earning votes point, though

and not addressing anything he's done since. It reads like you're trying to get others to make a case for you or give you something to attack.

Saint seems to be scum hunting more, and the last time I played with someone who was so abrasive they did turn out to be town.

UNVOTE: Saint
VOTE: BROseidon

Do you have some reason to think that RachMarie is scummy? The chattiness seems more null to me.

[penguin_alien]

Can't fool me, RachMarie, I know you're Fred and he's George.

[penguin_alien]

fuzzybutternut, why the twilight objection to the lynch?

I'm definitely waiting on TMTOLBTWNTOF's thoughts to start out today, given that he had ArcAngel9 and Ghostlin as his top scum reads. And his take on the supersaint claim seems off. Given his scum reads, one of whom was at L-1 and the other of whom was ready to hammer at the risk of being supersainted, why not put down the vote to get to L-1? Takes care of both problems. Instead it's characterized as interesting and noted as lynch-dodging behavior.

BROseidon with his slight defense of TMTOLBTWNTOF is still on my radar, but his consistency in wanting Ghostlin to hammer gives him some towniness. Looking into the chatty RachMarie meta overnight, yes, she was chatty in the Popcorn Mafia game, but not significantly more so than in Micro 122 where she replaced in to a very towny slot IIRC. Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing fuzzybutternut's take on the RachMarie meta question, seeing as he was the one who correctly shot her at the risk of his own game death in the Popcorn game.

[penguin_alien]

3. You're stretching this here. It seems like a very shallow way to analyze meta. Or, let me redirect this into another question, seeing your play at the beginning of the game: do you believe chatiness and activity are things that could be adjusted in one's meta to suit the game?

I do think the chattiness that BROseidon cited is null. That's why I didn't buy his moving there with the reasons given. Upon investigating what he was tallking about when I had time over the night phase, I see it as even less of a compelling reason to be voting RachMarie. Since fuzzybutternut has experience playing against scum-RachMarie in the game BROseidon cited, I think it's worth having him address the question before I entirely dismiss it.

And I suppose one can adjust such personality indicators to suit the game, but since I don't personally think it's meta-relevant, I'm not sure why one would.

[penguin_alien]

Nope. I play this game putting myself in the shoes of scum. That wasn't a scum claim, because it was absolutely suicidal. Was it stupid? God yes, but there's a reason I didn't put my vote on Arc. 1.) I was gone.

2.) She wasn't scum

.

I never said it was obvious that she was town

, but Scum doesn't do that. That is literally Suicidal. Scum would claim scum before they claim supersaint.

(emphasis mine)

Which is it? What had ArcAngel9 done to give her any town cred?

And what's your take on BROseidon's characterization of RachMarie's play in Popcorn Mafia vs. here?

TMTOLBTWNTOF, can you please address this:

[you]had ArcAngel9 and Ghostlin as his top scum reads. And his take on the supersaint claim seems off. Given his scum reads, one of whom was at L-1 and the other of whom was ready to hammer at the risk of being supersainted, why not put down the vote to get to L-1? Takes care of both problems. Instead it's characterized as interesting and noted as lynch-dodging behavior.

[penguin_alien]

@ TMT: Sorry, thought I posted before, the first L-1 should have been L-2. My question was why you didn't put AA9 to L-1 at Ghostlin's request?

[penguin_alien]

The Ghostlin case does seem to come back to people questioning things about the supersaint claim. Which makes this:

Exactly. The act itself is equal, meaning that it does not give you the townpoints to outweigh the other things that I find scummy about you, that I have discussed in previous posts. I'm not voting you for the hammer. I'm voting you for other things because the hammer is null.

not something I can see backed up. To start out last day phase, you said:

I'll start with Ghostlin. The way he went about the hammer looks town (probably enough to ignore him today) but I still have reservations.

Your reservations, as far as I can tell, come from his vote on Saint at the beginning of Day One. I know some people think early-game is where they do their best scumhunting, but you're not specifically referring back to that case. If these reasons you discussed earlier are so compelling, why not detail them?

You are right that Amrun and Ghostlin vote together a lot, but the end of Day One is a matter of Amrun being around to put ArcAngel9 to L-1 at Ghostlin's request. That they both piled on TMTOLBTWNTOF early, spent a lot of time voting him Day One, and aren't looking any more deeply into that lynch niggles at me. And in terms of final wagons, BROseidon manages to be following right along with them.

fuzzy, you say Ghostlin is trying to set up the masons. But the closest I've seen to people not taking it as a given is here:

Saint, why was your vote on Mhork at the end of D1? Mhork is town

How does he know it's not a scum gambit?

In addition to, you know, the entire rest of the post being weak as fuck.

Where BROseidon uses someone rolling with the claim as a reason to call them scum.

Amrun-Ghostlin being in lockstep aside, BROseidon spends a lot of time setting people up without making any actual cases he has to defend. As in here:

VOTE: TMTOL

Anyone else see it?

He specifies later with the quote above about TWTOLBTWNTOF buying the masons claim too readily for his taste. Why not say what's making you vote at the time? Town shouldn't be cautious about putting their cases out there for people to consider. It's what he did on Day One with Ghostlin:

Ghostlin town

Can we talk about this read, because I disagree.

You're asking to talk about a read but not kicking things off. You've been mentioning he's a scum read, but the most you've said about why is:

I don't like Ghost's vote for letters and subsequent only commenting on the modkill thing. Do like his earning votes point, though

and not addressing anything he's done since. It reads like you're trying to get others to make a case for you or give you something to attack.

Saint seems to be scum hunting more, and the last time I played with someone who was so abrasive they did turn out to be town.

UNVOTE: Saint
VOTE: BROseidon

Do you have some reason to think that RachMarie is scummy? The chattiness seems more null to me.

And tried to paint RachMarie as scummy pre-masons claim for a weak reason.

Amrun, if you have something you want me to address, have at it; otherwise (and regardless, really) I'd like to hear your take on BROseidon, specifically his interaction with the TMTOLBTWNTOF wagon last day phase.

VOTE: BROseidon

[penguin_alien]

penguin_alien, why are you a nonentity?

I'm curious about this as well.

Is there something in particular you want to know?

He specifies later with the quote above about TWTOLBTWNTOF buying the masons claim too readily for his taste. Why not say what's making you vote at the time?

For shits and giggles, honestly. I thought it was fairly obvious and that other people would see it.

Going to try to post something more substantive tonight or tomorrow. But one quick question: what does a vanilla cop do? I want to ISO DV to see if he crumbed anything yesterday.

A vanilla cop is a PR detector. Vanilla townies come back 'vanilla' and PRs come back 'not vanilla.' Sometimes scum goons are called Vanilla goons to keep it from auto-finding town, IIRC. And if you thought he was scum why didn't you do your utmost to make sure others saw what you did and agreed with your case? For giggles doesn't cut it with all the other 'avoiding making cases' you've been doing.

[penguin_alien]

Not sure if this is useful or not, but I had this game open on my mobile device when the crash happened and I have the last couple posts. There was a vote count, and then:

fuzzybutternut:
Hmmm.
Three likely scenarios:
Bro is scum and his scum buddy is afraid to bus him.
Bro is scum and his scum buddy is actively bussing him.
Bro is town and there is scum on his wagon.

I think situation two is most likely.

Lord Mhork:
So you think that PA is scum then?

fuzzybutternut:
Logically, yes. I do.
I'd rather lynch BRO over him today, see what happens tonight, and look at it again tomorrow.

Anything after this point I don't have. fuzzybutternut, what makes you want to lynch BROseidon? You said earlier you needed more information; what tipped you to voting him specifically?

Saint, an answer to fuzzybutternut's question here would be good:

I would have hammered as either alignment. js

Why?

as claiming you'd hammer with no warning or chance to claim as town is pretty suspect to me.

[penguin_alien]

Broseidon, are your only scum reads PoE?

I've found Ghost scummy all game. Also feeling off about p_a now, but that may be because I have town meta on her from a different site where the meta is pretty different (my meta there is very different as well).

(You actually have Day One town meta on me as I play as town on that site, as I'm going on three games of not playing as town beyond Day One: two NKs N1, one culting.) And

He specifies later with the quote above about TWTOLBTWNTOF buying the masons claim too readily for his taste. Why not say what's making you vote at the time?

For shits and giggles, honestly. I thought it was fairly obvious and that other people would see it.

Obvious fakeclaim was obvious.

You keep saying things are obvious, which seems like a great tactic for keeping people from questioning you on them or having to spell anything out. And then you try to brush off your reaction to the ArcAngel9 lynch any way you think will fly. At the time, you say you want the double lynch, which implies that you don't think ArcAngel9 will flip scum. Then it was an obvious fakeclaim, which would mean that you didn't expect to get a double lynch out of it.

I would have hammered as either alignment. js

Why?

why did you change avatar

This question-dodging is pretty scummy, followed by a vote on CDB, when he hasn't mentioned CDB as any sort of scum read. He actually had CDB as a town read the only times he's mentioned him, so far as I can tell. Care to explain?

[penguin_alien]

Fuck I need to claim and don't have time to put together a coherent case.

I'm Hermione Granger, Vanilla Townie.

The flavor claim is basically null to me given that past Nexus games have included pretty solid fakeclaims. What concerns me more is the attitude in this post that's mostly, 'no need to respond to suspicions, I'll just throw out a claim and see if they buy it.' Sure, I get worrying that one might be quickhammered before saying anything, but we're not running into deadline issues, so why not take the time to make a complete post? And what coherent case are you referencing? Not unvoting, thank you.

[penguin_alien]

Here are the posts DV made Day Two after he could have gotten any info (that mention people):

I know I keep apologising, but again, I'm really sorry.

Also, this is not going to be a big post, there's not much that's new to say, but if I was scum I probably would have tried to make it into a big post anyway, so yay self-analysis/meta/whatever you want to call it.

People I don't want to lynch today:

Fuzzy
Rach
CDB
Mhork
Saint
Ghostlin

Lean town, but could still be scum (this one's in order):

Amrun
Bro
Penguin

Leftover and also scummy:

TMT

I agree with what's been said about him and also found him scummy before. Jake is no longer here to distract me (btw sorry Jake ) and Mhork is a mason claim so yeah.

This is just from an initial catch up and I've only glanced through some ISOs. I might try and look at ISOs more closely at some point since it's been a while since I've paid attention to this.

Actually maybe put Bro above Amrun, but I'll check that later.

CDB seems pretty town to me though.

The closest I get from this is that he might have investigated CDB, but it's not clear to me what result he might have gotten, PR or Vanilla. His info would have been helpful if someone he'd investigated tried to lie about their role or lack thereof in a massclaim situation, but he died too early, so.

In terms of his most recent suspicions, he had me, BRO, and Amrun as next in line after TMT, but with TMT's town flip, I don't know that his Day Two reads were threatening to anyone.

BRO, what are you looking to find in his ISO?

[penguin_alien]

BROseidon, bottom line is that it barely matters whom DV chose to target Night One. Even the claimed non-chatting masons would likely be PRs, and so if they do happen to be gambiting scum (not my top theory) if whichever one DV investgated was a scum PR it wouldn't be apparent. Same if the claimed role would still have them as vanilla townies and they are vanilla scum goons. It just doesn't give us any info.

If you think there's something in DV's ISO that points to why he was killed, have at it; it's not a long ISO. Otherwise you're at L-1, I believe; you addressing the things I and others find scummy would be helpful, as would legit scum-hunting.

[penguin_alien]

Page 1: Mostly RVS. Saint tries to move it out of RVS, which is a fairly protown move. Penguin attacks him for this, which is strange. Ghost sits on the fence, which looks really bad.

Yes, moving things out of RVS is all to the good, protown, etc. But it's not hard to fake as scum, nor is it a pass to excuse scummy behavior in doing so. He implied his vote was serious, but the reason wasn't anything that struck me as moving toward relevant scum hunting. It was forced, trying too hard to look protown for exactly what you cite: the protowniness of moving things out of RVS. I wasn't attacking him for moving out of RVS, it was the way he did it.

Page 2: In retrospect something sits odd about FBN’s 27. Ghost attacks both p_a and saint, although this sits off with me:

To the point, I sort kinda agreed about Saint's #8, if pseudo serious, is reaching but doesn't really warrant and actual vote on him from PA.

It’s RVS. Something that seems even a little bit off should be attacked. That’s how you generate information. Ghost is basically saying “I think Saint looks bad but not bad enough for someone to pressure the issue,” even though it’s not like there’s any other way to get the game off the ground.

And here you say one should attack anything that seems off in RVS, but I'm scummy for doing that. Contradiction.

Mac towns it up in his attack on me, imo. Seems like town Mac. Saint starts raging. Pretty much everyone starts pressuring Saint, in the following order: Ghost, Mhork, DV, Doc Pepper, penguin. Penguin also responds with a fairly substantial wall, but she does, however, post a touch fluff content to FBN, while her content to ghost, saint, and myself is all pretty spot on with 0 fluff. FBN then responds with a terrible read (DV scumread at any point in the game was actually terrible and anyone who had that should feel aweful). Safety Dance also posts good content.

IIOA. And I'll address this here, since it seems to form a lot of your commenting on me. No, I don't post a lot of fluff, but I'm not completely devoid of a sense of fun. I'm not sure if it's a question of me having more time to post some fluff here relative to the other site where we play, but unless you think there's something FBN was saying that was any content to reply to, I don't see your point.

Even I wouldn't want to see Saint lynched at all now without interaction between players, nor would I see PA lynched.

This is very fast from “don’t like PA” to “no-lynch.”

It's page 4. Do you really think there's anything off about wanting more content down before lynching?

Penguin’s response to RQS is strange. Why bother, it just wastes space. Additionally, the way she questions me is really cautious. She’s not outright attacking me, but trying to poke holes in my game and gauge what I feel. There is a lot of scum motivation in this. Town want to yell about different reads and try to figure out which is true. Scum want to try to sheep consensus as much as possible to induce minimal fighting. She then attacks Saint on the “scum want to blend in” grounds based on something Saint said that was very obviously town-motivated (town want to push for lynches that are optimal for both chance of scumflip and ability to actually make the lynch happen). Saint tries to put together a town-block, which is a protown move.

Again, it's page 4. The game isn't at the point of having a lynch go through, so the idea of prioritizing voting for someone only if the lynch can go through is just an excuse not to follow through. If we were at a day to deadline and had to compromise lynch, sure,. And you say he's trying to put a town voting block together--show me where he does this on or before page 4.

Regarding the fluffy RQS, see the above WRT my posting fluff. And again, my meta here is different . On the other site, we have five days per phase if we're lucky, and the median per person post number is 2 or 3. I have to be provocative to try to get anything out of them when they do post. Here, I'm more inclined to engage in dialogue sometimes with people I'm trying to read.

Page 5: The way FBN talks about DV is strange:

I'm seriously hoping DV isn't scum again.

[….]

DV i'm not too sure about. I'm iffy there.

This lacks good trajectory.

Meaning...?

FBN fencesits on reading me in response to letters’ townreading me, but doesn’t give anything as to why he’s unsure about me.

Saint (4)- Lord Mhork, penguin_alien, SafetyDance, Ghostlin

Early wagon forms on Saint over p_a despite saint making the earlier pro-town move to start the tiff and saint generally scumhunting and taking overtly pro-town moves. Chance of CBD or Ghost being scum seems pretty high from this.

Why does making a pro-town move in a scummy way absolve him of suspicion here?

If he and Lord Mhork are scum together, they're doing a pretty kick-ass job. Lord Mhork seems to be tunneling pretty narrowly so far, although I don't think I agree with the idea that him pointing out all the scumminess from Saint is scummy in turn--it's not his job to point out the towny things someone does if he thinks he's caught scum. And if he was, it would make me think he was getting ready to undermine his own case, indicating he didn't believe in it.

There is solid scum motivation behind each of these sentences. First one looks like an attempt to set up doubt about the towniness of DV to potentially setup a mislynch later, because leaving him uncontested would result in him being a universal townread. Second and third ones are penguin saying, “town shouldn’t show nuance of thought when making cases. Uncertainty is bad” when everything in this game is probabilistic and including counterpoints adds nuance to cases.

First sentence is a descriptive way to indicate that I don't see DV and Lord Mhork As scum together. And you specifically asked me what I thought of them together, so way to misrepresent how my comment came into being. And as for the rest of the paragraph, my point was that if you're pressuring someone, you don't give them a backdoor to blow off that pressure, not that town shouldn't maintain a view of shades of grey.

Page 6: Holy fuck Jake’s first reads are horrific, and his early DV push is obviously bad. Ghost calls out letters for waffling when Ghost has done the same, just with more nuance. Ghost chainsaws DV in response to Jake’s “nice omgus” comment, which is bad because it indicates scum trying to read to far into town intent.

What Amrun said. Plus not following your point.

Okay I’m out of time for now. From the first 6 pages I want to say scum are most likely Ghost/penguin/FBN, although that third one is a lot weaker. Mhork looks really bad without the mason claim, but I still think the mason claim is legit and scum are banking on town doubting it tomorrow. Saint is fairly obviously town, and the early pressure was largely unjustified.

Also, in case someone decides to hammer before I can work through the rest of the game, scum not killing Rach/Mhork is not alignment-indicative for them. It’s probably LyLo tomorrow on a mislynch, which means that, if the mason claim is legit, it’s better for scum to leave doubt in play as to whether the mason claim is a gambit than it is to have a conf-townie going in.

Re: pseudo-masons--yes...are you trying to coach your scummates or muddy the waters with WIFOM.

As much as it might be entertaining to see you go through a 34 page thread like this, how is it really helpful? Are you changing your opinions as a result? Are you bringing up new points that make a case? Because this looks like scum hoping to find something to pin on anyone else. What is your response to the things we who are voting you think are scummy?

[penguin_alien]

Er, today I've mostly interacted with you because you're my top scum suspect and you have repeatedly ignored the cases presented on you. On earlier days I had more things to say to others. Unfortunately both days' lynch wagons reached the end of the road at times when personal circumstances prevented me posting. And I'm not following: how is Amrun aggressively pushing you today townie where my push is scummy?

The one thing I do agree on is that Ghostlin needs to get in here. He's gone right past lurking into outright not being here, and ending the day before he speaks up is unacceptable.

And you didn't find Saint's Day Two quickhammer to be odd? Without asking for a claim?

[penguin_alien]

Before further discussion, can we kick off the popcorn claiming? I'd like one of the claimed Weasley twins to pick who goes first, whichever one posts next. Delaying the claiming only gives scum more info on who to set up for a mislynch IMHO.

[penguin_alien]

Neville Longbottom, VT. (No scumbuddies, Mhork Although I suppose Trevor is a regular buddy? But they totally said we could bring a toad...)

Popcorn to Ghostlin.

[penguin_alien]

...Saint. Claim. Pronto. /belated prod dodge

[penguin_alien]

I'm assuming RachMarie and Lork Mhork don't have anything further to claim. If you do, go for it, but I don't want to waste any more of the day's time in the meanwhile.

Saint, why didn't you elaborate on your hammer of TMT yesterday? And why the white knighting of BROseidon just off a character claim? Without any move to suggesting another casd?

Ghostlin, what's your take on the BROseidon and TMT lynches?

CDB, why commute last night? As opposed to on an earlier night? Or seeing if we can lynch scum today and so have the breathing room of MyLo down the road if you used it later?

Amrun, not loving all the 'oh, I wanted to die' WIFOM. Saint and you commenting on the whole not being the NK makes me uneasy. If you're town, why would you want to be out?

With BRO flipping town, I'm not sure where scum is most likely to be, except that even if we're wrong about RachMarie and Lord Mhork likely being on the up-and-up there would still be one more scum. And if so, we're screwed anyways, because I don't see lynching either of them at LyLo as a good move. So might as well assume they're town.

As such I'd like to hear more complete thoughts from them. Their double-ISO from yesterday is mostly on BRO, and while I get that they'd want to communicate a lot in-thread if they are effectively masons without a QT, I don't have as much of a sense on how others are communicating with them as a result.

[penguin_alien]

hammer yesterday is null and not alignment indicative as i would hammer as any alignment
TMT was on my ass all game, and I'm a self preservationist
I Wouldn't be admitting this as scum, tbh

The defense of Broseidon was correct, no? How can you ATTACK me for me calling the setup correctly? Why the fuck would scum call for an unvote?
Lynching a townie wasn't necessarily bad play, though, and I suspect there could be more to this puzzle than meets the eye
The name claim with Harry being VT made me think Hermione was either VT or a fakeclaim for scum which would automatically win the game for them from me(because i'm not lynching ahermione vt claim when harry flipped vt it just makes sense to me from a moderator standpoint k thx bye)

As far as 'calling the set-up correctly,' scum would have known that BRO would flip town. Yet a VT claim was highly unlikely to be enough to derail the wagon. You get to be off what was a mislynch while the lynch would still go through. I see plenty of scum motivation there.

And you think someone 'being on your ass' in a game where one is supposed to scum hunt is a good reason to hammer their lynch without a claim? So, did you have an actual scum read on TMT or not?

CDB, why commute last night? As opposed to on an earlier night? Or seeing if we can lynch scum today and so have the breathing room of MyLo down the road if you used it later?

Earlier on, I thought I was safe to not use it because I thought the masons would start dying a lot earlier. Assuming three scum, I knew we would have to massclaim today so, if I kept the commute until after that and the numbers started to thin, I felt like it would just look like I was gambiting scum if I successfully soaked a kill in the late/endgame. If I'd been another player looking in, that's what I would have suspected.

Anyway, even if I had soaked the kill on a previous night, that would still give us the breathing room of MyLo down the road.

Makes sense, especially the part about avoiding looking like scum no-killing to bolster their image. Zero interest in lynching here at present.

Ghostlin, what's your take on the BROseidon and TMT lynches?

TMT was a drag and not someone that Town really wanted in LYLO. At the time, I felt the idea of him being scum wasn't unlikely; then again, I thought Fuzzy was scum with the mind melting logic that Archangel was obv town with the horrible, awful, scumtastic claim of super saint.

BROsideo, yeah, I get Town thought he was bad, but I didn't see it, frankly; his points seemed cognizant and he had replies to the points people made against him. I was away for most of that lynch, but I wouldn't have gone with BRO as the play that day. I'd probably have much rather have lynched CDB, who's tunnelled on me but hasn't done much about it, Saint, who again, I'm having trouble actual scumhunting since Day 1, and either Amrun, who's been Town to me most of the game, but I ask the question now, is she Town now? Why is she still here?

Do you think if Amrun is town, she's more lynchable than fuzzy was from a scum perspective? Same question to Amrun: RachMarie's point about a possible role cop in play aside, would fuzzy have been in your lynch pool today? Because you had him as pretty firm town in #740 and #742 from what I can tell.

[penguin_alien]

Mod, hope this is short-term, but going v/la with keyboard that went bad (20% of keys do not work).

[penguin_alien]

Off V/LA; new keyboard is good to go.

...so, either the scum team is CDB-Amrun-Ghostlin, or scum-Saint isn't paying attention. He apparently hasn't been here for a couple days, so that works out to null. Lord Mhork not hammering me puts him and RachMarie as absolutely certain town, no gambiting scum here. Unless it's a two-man scum team? Which I wouldn't expect from a 13p game with one apparent killing faction. So, town.

Here's the final vote counts for each day based on the above:

Votecount 1.10:

ArcAngel9

(7-LYNCH)-

RachMarie

, ChannelDelibird,

Jake from State Farm

,

Lord Mhork

,

BROseidon

, Amrun, Ghostlin
Ghostlin (2)-

fuzzybutternut

,

TMTOLBTWNTOF

Lord Mhork

(2)- Saint,

ArcAngel9

BROseidon

(1)-

penguin_alien

Not Voting (1)-

DeasVail

Votecount 2.3:

TMTOLBTWNTOF

(6 - LYNCH)- Amrun, Ghostlin,

BROseidon

, Channeldelibird,

Lord Mhork

, Saint
Amrun (1)-

fuzzybutternut

Not Voting (5)-

DeasVail

,

RachMarie

,

penguin_alien

,

TMTOLBTWNTOF

Votecount 3.4:

BROseidon

(5-LYNCH)-

penguin_alien

,

Lord Mhork

,

fuzzybutternut

, ChannelDelibird, Amrun
Ghostlin (1)-

BROseidon

ChannelDelibird (1)- Saint

Not Voting (2)-

RachMarie

, Ghostlin

Amrun and Ghostlin have to be scum. I'm just not sure if CDB or Saint is the last one. CDB throwing down the first vote with little concern doesn't look good, but the claim makes sense. CDB, if you're town, unvote and reconsider.

Ghostlin's take on BROseidon, that he was responding to people's points against him, is so completely not what was happening, I can't see him being town. That's scum spinning a mislynch they managed to avoid. So much for his hammering ArcAngel9 being oh-so-towny.

VOTE: Ghostlin

RachMarie, you've seen my scum game. If you think this is it, then the town loss is going to be on me for not being better town, and I'll add another 'mislynched at LyLo' to my record. But really, look at the people voting me. They keep saying that it 'just makes sense for me to be scum' without citing a thing. Yes, I was wrong about BROseidon, and if I'd had a chance to put down a vote on TMT I'd have been wrong there as well. Doesn't make me scum.

Like I said, back from V/LA, willing to engage in discussion to figure this game out, assuming I don't get quickhammered before that's possible.

[penguin_alien]

Scum QT is linked in the role PMs, BTW. We didn't

quite

hit 200 posts...!

Sorry, but hahahahahahaha! I was absolutely bricking it about which mason to kill. Was very worried about our ability to mislynch Amrun for the win.

Hooray! I'm glad we won this game; we put a lot of work into it. If only we'd killed a mason last night, we could have had it perfectly.

Remember, we couldn't go for the masons because fuzzy might have been protecting one of them. I didn't know he and DV were limited shot PRs.

Yeah, p_a's rolecopping was

sublime

. We probably would have been screwed on day play if we hadn't picked out the right people.

Total group effort, but I'll totally take credit for remembering to PM our choices to Nexus!

meanwhile PA once again you did an excellent job and so did your scum budz CDB and Ghost. GJ Scum team.


I had a lot of fun playing with all of you and great job on modding the game Nexus ♥

I swear I'll play a game with you where I'm not scum someday, RachMarie! I did learn that I don't like using any AtE as scum like I did in my last post in addressing you.

Thanks to Nexus for modding! It was also a complete blast playing with Ghostlin and CDB, plus SafetyDance while he was here. CDB's fake PR claim worked out quite well for us.

FWIW, we never had any clue that the masons were Siblings...

[penguin_alien]

For what it's worth.

We really did have fun. Playing scum with day talk is just the best.

[penguin_alien]

True story, I was thinking of claiming Neville as a JK for theme reasons until I rolecopped you...