Newbie 1388 Nexlexia Game Over

[gene1991]

Hello! I'm ChannelDelibird - call me CDB, (almost) everyone else does. I'm one of the SE players in this game so

I'm mainly just going to do what I would normally do as a representative sample of a random mafiascum player

. I'll be happy to answer any questions, however, if Bacde, your resident IC, is afk or asleep or eaten by a bear.

Now then! VOTE: gene1991 CONFESS.

what? I don't really understand what you just said here. You're going to be a typical player? I don't even know how you control for that. Isn't everyone their own style just by feature of being an individual?

[gene1991]

Hi, I am DoctorPepper. Some call me DP, but you can address me however you want as long as I know its me. Now, unlike the IC, I have no obligation to answer your questions, however I will try to answer them to help out.

Now, before you start wondering why people are voting people for silly reasons ( like this) - I've seen this in literally all the newbie games I've been in

VOTE: Yessiree because you wanted to mod this game

In MS, we start off with Random Voting Stage or RVS. Since at the start of the game, we have nothing to base our accusations on, we vote randomly until someone slips or offers a serious vote.

Also, we

do not no lynch

day 1. I know some people come from sites which do advocate this practice, but here in this newbie game we uave 7 town and 2 scum. Theoretically, it is possible to no lynch until we need to to get scum, but its bad for town because we have nothing to base our accusations of. Basically with this, we are afforded 3 mislynches, and we can use this to see why they were lynched, who was behind them and was it scum driven.

Okay, I'll let our IC do most of the explaining, from now on haha.
Good luck!

Well you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.
But I am wondering if I can choose to not follow the crowd and don't participate in this random voting thing. I think it's dumb. And I play mafia on epicmafia, and I get mad when everyone votes me just because I don't like to follow the preset strategy that everyone else likes to follow. but since the average game there is like 5 minutes, you don't get any time at all to explain yourself. Lynching there isn't really based on scumreads, it's mostly all policy lynches.
I just like to think for myself. and I don't want to follow a strategy if I don't think it's the best. I would just come off as being fake. everyone else can do that random voting if they want.

[gene1991]

So, gene, why did you refuse to CONFESS?

I'm a pretty serious person. I rarely ever joke around. very logical. a part of that makes me a really bad liar. but also just a really unfunny person. So my point is, I tend to ignore unseriousness like unserious questions.

[gene1991]

Well, no, I can't decide to be typical. But I can be normal for me!

It's perfectly fine not to random vote, as long as you're making an effort to help us get the game going in another way. After all, that's why we "random" vote, as we've found over the years that that's been the most effective way of kicking things off - although, to be clear, nothing past your first vote should be random. I'm not a huge fan of calling it a "stage", personally, but that's not really very important.

I want to brainstorm on that. I feel like there definitely should be a better way to strike up conversation. like maybe a list of questions that people could start off with. "describe behavior that you think is maf. and then describe how maf would answer that question." People could try to answer that question, and maf might try to answer it differently than a town would. and ppl could call other people out responses like that.

idk, just a thought.

[gene1991]

Tips for someone who has no idea what to do

1. Never self-vote or self-hammer. Remember that you are playing to win, and self-voting is ALWAYS playing against your win condition (whether you are mafia or town). There are barely ANY circumstances where it is in your win condition's favor to self-vote.

I'm not sure if that's true. In the previous (and first) game I played on this site, someone immediately self voted, and some ppl read it as town because maf wouldn't want to draw that attention to themselves. while others read it as maf and not giving a fuck.
So, I think as long as you are not self-hammering, it can give people reads, and therefore be beneficial.
I doubt any town member actively votes themselves just to prove they are town, though.
So it's not so much beneficial for the person voting themself, but more beneficial for everyone else.

[gene1991]

This game is filled with lies, you are going to have a bad time

Only when I'm mafia. and usually only irl, because my face looks guilty. online my main problem as maf is that I give up too easy since the most logical answer is that I'm maf. I kind of feel like I hit a wall.

[gene1991]

gene1991: There's been a few attempts to use a 'random question stage' instead but, in my experience, it usually leads to less discussion that's actually specific to the game in question. I've never tried it in a newbie game, though, so it might go better, but either way we're past the need for randomness by now. What do you think of Bacde's vote?

Yessiree, what do you think of Bacde's vote?

I guess I don't really feel that it should be dignified with a response. since it, too, was not made in seriousness. and was just trying to spark some discussion which would inevitably be pointless because there is nothing of any worth to say in response to someone not being serious.

It's not anyone would say "I think you're maf for voting for someone you think is town." because even they know the vote was not to be taken seriously.

[gene1991]

Are you mafia gene?

That only works on me irl.

[gene1991]

about yessiree's statistical thing.....
I personally love statistics as well (well, I've only taken one class on it). However, imo, they really only work when you have a large sample size. 100 or larger preferably. Our sample size is 9. so, statistics don't really work on this level. because it's not hard for us to be that rare case scenario where two of the SE are mafia. So I don't think we can use statistics to push a lynch on the IC. But, if you were maf, that would be a good plan, because you could very logically and rationally push a lynch on the IC who you would know was not maf this time. and it wouldn't even matter if you were wrong, because statistically you were right.

[gene1991]

oh snaps

VOTE: gene

this is a real vote, and I no longer have a slight townread on gene

omg, you can't possibly have an actual scumread already on barely page 2. but I like that you're actually trying to be serious this time because it makes me want to engage.

[gene1991]

I also now have a scumread on gene. He seems happiest engaging in theory discussion rather than repeated requests to engage with specific events in this game.

what? no one has asked me anything specifically?

[gene1991]

are you talking about the "are you mafia" thing. yeah, that doesn't count, that wasn't serious.

[gene1991]

Are you mafia gene?

That only works on me irl.

This feels like a scum slip. The easy answer was no, regardless of alignment. This was not a town answer because its not supposed to work if you were town, by saying that "it doesnt work this time" it implies you as scum

VOTE: gene

And just like that, were out of RVS

Don't I have like 3 votes on me now? I'm flattered by all this attention.
It's interestingly putting a lot of pressure on me, though. Like, it's impossible for me to scumhunt in this current moment because I'm so flustered about how to make myself not seem like mafia to you all.

Also, I think simply saying "no" to that question is too easy. even maf can do that. Therefore, I don't think any answer to that question, even if it's "yes" can actually give anyone any real information. it's just a dumb question.

[gene1991]

I haven't seen you answer this despite more than one of us ask you about it.

So to start, I'm going to

VOTE: gene

despite him being an early townread of mine. What do you guys think of me voting for someone who I think is town?

gene1991: There's been a few attempts to use a 'random question stage' instead but, in my experience, it usually leads to less discussion that's actually specific to the game in question. I've never tried it in a newbie game, though, so it might go better, but either way we're past the need for randomness by now. What do you think of Bacde's vote?

well you're wrong, because I actually answered both:

I guess I don't really feel that it should be dignified with a response. since it, too, was not made in seriousness. and was just trying to spark some discussion which would inevitably be pointless because there is nothing of any worth to say in response to someone not being serious.

It's not anyone would say "I think you're maf for voting for someone you think is town." because even they know the vote was not to be taken seriously.

about yessiree's statistical thing.....
I personally love statistics as well (well, I've only taken one class on it). However, imo, they really only work when you have a large sample size. 100 or larger preferably. Our sample size is 9. so, statistics don't really work on this level. because it's not hard for us to be that rare case scenario where two of the SE are mafia. So I don't think we can use statistics to push a lynch on the IC. But, if you were maf, that would be a good plan, because you could very logically and rationally push a lynch on the IC who you would know was not maf this time. and it wouldn't even matter if you were wrong, because statistically you were right.

[gene1991]

If youre town, you dont need to seem like youre not mafia gene.

Apparently I do, because people are really nit-picking for everything. so I have to even answer sarcastic questions such as "are you mafia" correctly to not seem like mafia. I don't know how to answer sarcasm correctly.

[gene1991]

To the both of you. I have like 4 votes on me now. so, I repeat.

It's interestingly putting a lot of pressure on me, though. Like, it's impossible for me to scumhunt in this current moment because I'm so flustered about how to make myself not seem like mafia to you all.

[gene1991]

Welcome Bob, what do you think of the gene wagon.

Sidenote, gene please get an avatar. It helps us distinguish you from everyone else. Like we'll know its you with out looking at your name

Kay. do you like it?

[gene1991]

Okay, I think I decided it would look most town of me to just ignore everyone voting me and their reasons.
And instead I will just try to look at who I think could be mafia.

Nobody Special - town.

in post 62 he comes in and jumps right on with what everyone else is saying about gene and yessir being maf. I think that's too obvious for maf to do, especially for someone with a little experience. so, my strongest town read right here.

Bicephalous Bob - town,

despite having only two posts. mainly because he was the first to call a certain someone out on conveniently jumping on a bw, instead of doing so himself which would be beneficial if he was mafia.

yessiree - town

. I think it's cute you use statistics. fyi it kinda makes you look like maf. but, you know I'm totally going to refer back to your statistics later on in the game when I'm looking at who could be scumteams. just to know if I have probability on my side in my hunches.

DoctorPepper - town to null

. a little scummy for voting me in post 39. I still feel like no one really had good reasons at all. and I still hink this whole bw started just to push pressure on me to watch my reaction. townie for post 42 for calling someone out for not having a good reason for joining bw. ppl joining bw is good for maf. post 52 could definitely go either way, either maf trying to set me up to look more maf, or town putting more pressure on me to see how I'll react.

Rikablu - null

. really the only posts of any worth are post 75 and post 96. scumread because he's not taking a stance on anything one way or the other, trying hard to remain neutral. but also town because his reasons seem valid.

ChannelDelibird - null

. the only two posts that interested me were post 19 and post 53. the first I think is just slightly scummy by the way he went about dismissing the statistics thing, just seemed like being contradictory. and the second one for how he also contributed to this bw. maybe he was just trying to put pressure on me, in that case it could be town. but the way he gave me advice and told me what to do to seem town was odd. maybe he was saying it because he was trying to help. maybe it was because he knew I couldn't do it and would inevitably look more maf.

JKMatthews - null to scum

. because of post 57 where he votes yessir for talking about statistics, which sounds like grasping.
and post 63 for thinking Nobody Special is scummy by lurking. that's also a dumb reason to think anyone's maf, and it's not possible to actually know if someone's lurking or just away from computer. so, grasping.
and post 63 for thinking we can actually determine a scumteam this early on. how convenient.
and it's too soon to lynch anyone yet, so don't push yessire's lynch too soon.
post 87 appears very town

Bacde - scum

. it's really too soon to say scum with any real degree of confidence, but it's the closest I've got. I didn't want to put everyone at null. but basically posts 11, 20, 24, 26. I feel like he starts off this whole game with a very happy-go-lucky attitude. Not like arrogant or confident, but more like we are a bunch of little kids and he's going to have fun going easy on us. I know I could always be wrong, so I'm not saying this with much confidence. but in my experience, mafia ends up being the ones that were trying too hard to be town. this is what Bacde is here here, imo.

[gene1991]

I couldn't resist, I still want to defend myself.

I think I'm caught up to speed now on the posts. From my understanding, the wagon on Gene has more or less started due to a sarcastic retort to a reaction-fishing question, leading to Gene's repeated defensive responses to scumhunting, rather than trying to efficiently retort and scumhunt in turn.

I'm not entirely sure how I should feel about self-admission to playing defensively (post 43).

On one hand, being a new player and getting a hefty wagon on you barely three pages in is concerning. On the other hand Gene, you repeated the admission once again, specifically after being told that town shouldn't try to prove innocence.

My gut reaction to that would be a vote on you, and I feel like I should follow through, because either you're being sincere about your lack of focus or you have motive to let this bandwagon build.

Unvote; Vote Gene[/card]

On the other hand, I'd like to ask yessiree a question: I see Post 46 being made immediately after Post 45 (as in, in the same minute). Why did you push your vote through without utilizing the additional post that Gene made to present a stronger case?

So is that what it takes for maf to seem town? to just not defend themselves? that is way too easy. you are thinking way too simplistically then. It is too easy for maf to know that the key to being read as town is to just not get defensive and no maf would ever be read as maf, ever.
I basically do whatever I feel like doing. and sometimes I feel like defending myself. so I do. if that makes me seem like maf to you all, then you're simplistic.

Also, directed at whoever said I slipped, I don't think there's any such thing as scum slips. I think it's far more likely that someone will honestly accidentally say the wrong than mafia who is going to be careful that that won't happen. but it happens more often when you are not watching for it because you don't have to.

[gene1991]

Wow ok, so after thinking gene was just lynchbait, I'm pretty happy to call gene scum now.
Post 106 is bizarre. Your labels for people don't match your reads, and you start it by saying "I'm ignoring you so that I look town". That just hurts.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm ignoring the votes on me.

See I actually purposely put that first sentence in there knowing it would actually make me look more scummy. my point is that I don't think people actually want me to be frankly honest. my point is that I don't think town has to not worry about not seeming like maf, because clearly I do have to worry about it evidenced by people thinking my honesty is scummy.

[gene1991]

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

The Easter Bunny?

The Tooth Fairy?

What is your point?

Hey just checking in to say I'm still happy with my vote on gene!

If anyone wants to ask me why, go ahead! Otherwise, just vote for gene and thank me when he flips scum

And what happens when I don't? What will be your opinion then?

This is just too easy for you, isn't it?
VOTE: Bacde

[gene1991]

@ Nobody Special, I guess I read it the opposite way. I

don't

believe scum slips exist just like I

don't

believe all those fairy tales exist.
And I guess you do believe they exist, which is just as dumb as believing the fairy tales as well.


About the only real scum slip I've ever seen was when someone claimed doc because they forgot/didn't realize the doc was already dead. And everyone was like, oh, it's obvious. and the maf kinda realized their mistake and basically surrendered.
Saying my lynch would give useful information, or whatever it was that was a scumslip to you, is not actually a scumslip. At the most it's just someone who choice of words got twisted around. happens all the time.
In fact, FAR FAR more often than actual slipping, I see mafia trying to say that someone slipped so they can get that person lynched.
But it only benefits mafia to keep believing that actual scumslipping exists.

[gene1991]

omg, slips don't exist.

[gene1991]

does that mean you changed your mind about thinking I'm not mafia?

[gene1991]

yessiree, what is your opinoin/read on Bacde?

[gene1991]

Bacde, if you are going to say that I did all sorts of things, you need to link to the post for proof. because either you're lying or you aren't remembering correctly.

Can we lynch gene please?

Do you guys remember how when I made the post initially that said "Oh now I have a real scumread on gene" what his first response was?

It was to

immediately discredit it

and he made an attempt to

characterize it as a joke vote

. Also, he made no notice over whether it was alignment indicative, in fact I doubt he would think that I would have been posting "joke votes" at that state in the game if I was scum.

That was not the vote I was referring to when I called it a joke vote, I called your very first post 11 vote a joke vote.

Yet, in his "reads post" he uses my early posts as "evidence" of being scum somehow?

Why is it that WHEN THE POSTS happen, he tries his damndest to discredit me and lessen the pressure of my vote and call it a joke, yet now later on in the thread he is going to act like my early vote was some sort of scum-pressure vote instead of a joke?

He's changing the target and he's being shifty and hes cheekily trying to reverse that pressure onto me. He's scum.

all of this was based on what you said above, which was wrong. So this is completely baseless as well. but I think you're hoping people won't notice.

All of this ignores his original "accidentally claimed scum" post, which is right here:
[...]
I cannot, for the life of me, imagine a town-aligned player responding to the question of "are you mafia?" by saying "THAT WONT WORK ON ME THIS GAME IS ONLINE". Its an

absurdly

defensive response to a simple question. A town aligned player is much more likely to say a simple "no" or even "No, do you think I am?" OR EVEN "Yes! Muahaha jk I'm trolling I'm actually town".

But I can't imagine a town-player saying "You won't catch me that way!" to such a simple question.

This is why I say slips don't exist. If you are town, I can't believe that you think that that was a slip. As if maf would actually have trouble answering that question. The questions maf can answer the easier would be the ones that simply require saying "no" or whatever you said up there. How do you think that human psychology works? The 'are you mafia' question and its answers will never, ever be any indication whatsoever of alignment.

But the fact that you are taking something and blowing it way out of proportion and building a case with it is why I do think you are maf. You think it makes you look very logical and truly scumhunting to build this case.

But you truly are wrong, and I truly am town. And the way I answered the question makes sense in context. The context was I was telling someone I'm a bad liar and therefore bad at being maf because my face looks guilty, and then you asked me if I was maf, it sounded like a joke, as if you were pretending if I was maf I was going to look guilty through the computer screen. So I said, it only works irl, because clearly you can't see my face through computer screen and know if my face looks guilty or not.

But again, you're hoping people won't catch onto the actual context and will just vote me ASAP to end the day with minimal talking, because that's good for maf.

You guys can talk and stuff if you want, but we are lynching gene today and he will flip scum

You never answered my question:

And what happens when I don't? What will be your opinion then?

[gene1991]

And what happens when I don't? What will be your opinion then?

This is a question that makes assumptions that I can't make.

Namely, you are assuming that you will flip town--I can't know that and actually I disagree greatly. Also, this question has no purpose, I can't imagine you somehow scumhunting with the answer I would possibly try to give to this question.

I could ask you the same question in return, and it would make no difference. But lets do it as a thought experiment:

What will be your opinion when I flip town? What will

YOU

do then?

Well I will answer that. Because I'm not 100% confident that you are maf. you are my strongest scumread, but it is technically possible you are town and this is just how you scumhunt, by pushing hard and fast. Not good for town, but w/e.
If you flip town, I will be moderately surprised and reread for who I think is next scummiest.

Not a hard question to answer. your turn.

[gene1991]

MAYBE if you thought my question was a joke I could buy you "joking" in return

but your response is MUCH more likely to come from scum than from town

lemme think about this

I wasn't joking. at all. I don't think I've made a joke today. not that I remember.
I think you're either purposely or innocently still misunderstanding what I was saying.

Basically (interpretation version):
I said you can tell by my face if I'm guilty or not. you said 'are you mafia?'. I said, you can't see my face so why are you asking.

[gene1991]

Here is evidence of you calling my "real" vote a joke vote and also evidence of you attempting to discredit it immediately:

How is that evidence? you talked about the "are you mafia" thing, which I already said is what I was talking about by being a joke.

I guess I see what you mean about the first though, in hindsight, it could have been serious, or it could have been more reaction testing. or a mixture of both.

My answer is the exact same, on the off-chance you flipped town I would reassess and continue to scumhunt.

Now you tell me this: What were you planning on doing with the answer to this question? How does it help you scumhunt in any manner?

So you waited until town answered that question so you could see how to best answer it too?
So your answer is that you would be "moderately surprised" when I flip town? Why moderately if you seem 100% sure I'm mafia?

That's precisely how I scumhunt with your answer. I think you're mafia for reasons I already mentioned. and I want someone to be able to say "i told you so" for me when it's tomorrow and I'm dead town. And I want you to feel really dumb. and if you don't feel dumb, then it's because you're mafia.

[gene1991]

but it is technically possible you are town and this is just how you scumhunt, by pushing hard and fast. Not good for town, but w/e.

I have links of previous games that show this method being VERY good for town

pushing hard, yes. pushing fast, no. the longer the games goes on the more information we have.

[gene1991]

In my opinion, only a mafia would be worried or nervous about being caught by such a simple question, and thus only a mafia would answer this question in a defensive manner, saying something along the lines of "that won't work on me!" or "it won't be THAT easy to catch me!", which you did.

No. No mafia on planet earth or any other planet would be worried about being caught by such a simple sentence. If that was it, we'd have far less unsolved crimes today. Cops would just say, "did you rape her?" and he would get all shifty eyes and sweaty, and.... case solved.

Its REALLY hard for me to imagine a town-player saying something like that, EVEN if you thought my question was a joke.

If you were town and thought I was joking, why wouldn't you say something along the lines of "No, but you won't even be able to tell that I'm not lying because you can't see my face!"

Actually that's something very like me to say. I could have just as easily said that.

Its just a revelation of criminal trying-to-not be caught psychology

Apparently I'm such a guilty mafia that I just cave under the pressure of 'did u dun it', but then now I'm going to all this work to show you that I'm not mafia? sounds like two different people to me.

This reasoning doesn't even involve how IMMEDIATELY after you were VERY focused on looking like town and not looking like mafia--which isn't something town has to do.

That's what people keep saying, but apparently I do have to worry about it because every little thing I say can be taken and made to have me look like mafia. and I know that's the game, and I'd do it too. but my point, apparently I do.

[gene1991]

@ Doctorpepper, those are actually some really good, solid reasons for thinking I'm maf. I think if I was in your place, I would totally think the same thing. unlike Bacde thinking I'm maf for how I answered "are you scum".
It's very logical to lynch me and see how yessir looks.

But just fyi, for you to read when I do flip town. it was more of a coincidence I guess. I stand by my reasons in my list thing.
I mean, it's not like anyone else was being bw'd, so the votes on me were really the only thing to talk about.

[gene1991]

That's rude.

Unless you're cheeky mafia

I kinda want you to be mafia and not rude so

I don't think that's rude. you are voting me for dumb reasons. you deserve to feel dumb when you are wrong. but since you're probably maf, you won't feel dumb, you'll feel mission accomplished. so, you don't have to worry.

I'm just getting annoyed. and so I'm done playing now. VOTE: gene
gl town.

there should be a forfeit button.

[gene1991]

@ Bacde, that's actually really sweet of you.
I think a selfvote is apparently helpful to town because they want to lynch me anyways to decide yessir's alignment. so I'm just helping that along.
As for your other question about who else is maf, I'll maybe answer it in a few hours. I'd have to reread everything. it took me like two hours to read/write up that list of my reads. and no one thinks it makes sense or seems consistent, but if I try to clarify, people think I'm defending myself and therefore mafia.
So my conclusion is that I need to learn what behavior is seen as "mafia" and what is seen as "town" so I can act accordingly. I feel like I'm autistic now or something.

[gene1991]

I request replacement.