Newbie 1388 Nexlexia Game Over

[Rikablu]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this, so I'm probably spending the new two days poring over the wiki for additional tips. In the meantime,

Vote: Nobody Special

, because it's always the unassuming one.

[Rikablu]

I think I'm caught up to speed now on the posts. From my understanding, the wagon on Gene has more or less started due to a sarcastic retort to a reaction-fishing question, leading to Gene's repeated defensive responses to scumhunting, rather than trying to efficiently retort and scumhunt in turn.

I'm not entirely sure how I should feel about self-admission to playing defensively (post 43). On one hand, being a new player and getting a hefty wagon on you barely three pages in is concerning. On the other hand Gene, you repeated the admission once again, specifically after being told that town shouldn't try to prove innocence. My gut reaction to that would be a vote on you, and I feel like I should follow through, because either you're being sincere about your lack of focus or you have motive to let this bandwagon build.

Unvote; Vote Gene[/card]

On the other hand, I'd like to ask yessiree a question: I see Post 46 being made immediately after Post 45 (as in, in the same minute). Why did you push your vote through without utilizing the additional post that Gene made to present a stronger case?

[Rikablu]

And I can totally tag bold properly. Cause [card] is totally a forum tag.

[Rikablu]

Going off of Page 2's votecount, I thought I was 4th vote, for L-1.

[Rikablu]

Oh. I thought hammering was the actual act of putting the lynch vote on (like hammering a nail in to place).

Yes, my intention's to keep gene near lynch vote. Wouldn't that usually garner good information? At this point, either the value holds while discussion takes place, people jump off the wagon in which case their reasoning should be justified and examined, or someone actually tries to go for a lynch, which would be a very definitive action whose results should produce good discussion on D2.

@JK: Not yet. He deserves time to compose himself and provide useful information to the town.

[Rikablu]

Can I get a quick answer to Post 75, yess?

[Rikablu]

I know why you put him at L-1. I want to know why you did it without using the additional post made in the interim.

[Rikablu]

@Rikablu - in the same post you say that you're happy with him being at L-1 because him being lynched would give good info, and say that you wouldn't be comfortable with him being lynched. Which is it?
Also, how do you know he can provide useful information to the town? Don't you think he's scum?

Both, duh. You're compressing my stance in that post to create a black/white impression that doesn't exist. If he's lynched, the act and justification thereof at this stage in time would be useful information, as 3 pages looks too soon in the game for a lynching (though I guess now that that rationale is out in the open it becomes a moot point). I don't want him lynched hastily on account of his flailing, because weak town is better than dead town, and weak scum might create a trail to a partner. This point also answers your second question, but I'll add the point that 9 perspectives is better than 8, and even data from scum is worth merit, once you're confident in determining which statements were purposefully leading/misleading.

[Rikablu]

The end of page 7 is confusing me, starting around post 169. Around then is when I get the feeling that Pepper and Yessiree aren't necessarily arguing logic, but rather are just feeding off each other's suspicions, intentionally or not, to become increasingly aggressive towards each other.

If you actually READ all of my last post, you will note that I didn't actually label you as scum, I simply put the possibility out there. However, from the way you responded to my post, I'm starting to grow more suspicious of you. It looks like you are the one who jumped out of his chair and went "holy shit, how did this guy know?" And then you proceeded to write me 2 garbage paragraphs that didn't make a single logical statement.

And for your information, I read all of your arguments, but it is YOU who didn't read all of my posts.

This is intentionally aggressive. I don't see another way to interpret it. In a vacuum, I'd guess that this would be scummy in nature, because it's fueling competitive fire towards another player without really digging in to post details to find incriminating evidence. But, in tandem with my previous question directed toward yessiree, are you just aggressively hasty? I understand that you want post content, but what I'm pulling from your little argument with Pepper is a debate structure of:

Pepper: You said this, which is wrong.
Yess: I did this, read me better.

Do you see a problem here? Pepper is trying to find flaws in your posts. Your rebuttals are needlessly aggressive, and more importantly do not prod deeply in to Pepper's attacks on you. You dismiss them straight out. That's not conclusive.

Other players have already picked apart your posts for potential scumminess (and I agree that the expoused need to survive is quite scummy in nature), so I don't feel like I can add much more to that approach.


On a separate note: NS, is it your nature as a player to post compressed and short texts? I am under the impression that you might be the type to keep your thoughts mostly to yourself until it's necessary to push players towards your line of thinking. I don't see anything wrong with that, but it's difficult to get a read on you without knowing for sure. Assuming that this belief is correct, I think you're town on the basis that each time you posted, it's presented some form of constructive argument. I even consider the vote on me to be constructive, because frankly speaking no one else has voiced an opinion on my actions, and that's either weak, lazy, or overpowering fixation on gene at the time. On the other hand, if your concise nature isn't part of your standard play, my followup question would be 'why is this different', and what's otherwise a town read becomes a lot weaker.

Going to use this opportunity to fix my

Vote: Gene

, so that it's properly official. I want more pulled out of him. Of the two major wagons thus far, gene has been far too defensive, and now suicidal. I don't think that easing pressure off a suicidal player, scum or town, is a good thing. I don't like the possibility of a suicidal player getting a free ride on the basis that they've thrown in the towel. While yessiree is also deserving of a vote due to Post 171's lack of aggression (compared to his other posts at the time), as well as the analysis on his use of the word 'survival', he at least ISN'T suicidal.

Gene, do you want to play this game anymore? If you do not, I recommend getting a replacement. You don't do your character slot justice by voting yourself. Extreme circumstances aside, doesn't it go against the philosophy of very nearly every wincon?

[Rikablu]

You bring up a fair point. I didn't think about the fact that most of us are new players, and that not everyone is going to handle pressure adequately with a lack of experience. This forum is also rather intimidating compared to other Mafia sites.

I'll trust your judgment on this one, because of your experience, but gene needs to shape up somehow. It's not good to be defeatist.

Unvote

[Rikablu]

I don't think yessirree is playing differently on purpose. This is both his and my first game on this forum and

I didn't know the exact winning condition of a townie until you stated it,

so that's a null tell or whatever you kids call it these days.

Also, saying that you don't find yessirree suspicious is one thing, but saying you don't understand why others find him suspicious is quite another. We're talking about the guy who said, "I am town. So I will not be lynched today, I will not be lynched tomorrow, and I will not be lynched on any day thereafter."

If you can explain why a townie would say that, I'll happily switch my vote back to CDB.

Wait what.

Vote Bicephalous Bob

[Rikablu]

Technically, all PMs are in initial posts the Mod provided (I had to doublecheck before the vote), so everything was open content. But I'm more willing to assume this is a scumslip due to lazy scum not reading the opening posts than town not even reading their own role PM.

[Rikablu]

I don't have time to defend myself. I might be dead the next time I'm online, so remember I said yessirree and CDB are the baddies.

I need another opinion on this post. I'm debating with myself whether or not BBscum would have the audacity to try and screen a buddy through, knowing that the slip he's made is difficult to argue against. Obviously if BBtown (which I doubt, but it's better to run through the logic for completeness), his reasoning apparently makes sense due to the events of the day and CDB's general lurkiness, which has since been somewhat remedied.

If you come out of relative inactivity only to make a slip, are you so flustered at that point to try a gambit play rather than something more conservative? I doubt my assessment of BB as a potential risk-taker.

As to BB, this post is weak. Why aren't you making your opinions crystal clear if you're that afraid of death? You know from the gene wagon that we as a whole are patient. Deliver. Otherwise you're just flailing scum.

[Rikablu]

Yo I just realized something

Nobody Special is TOO DANGEROUS TO BE KEPT ALIVE, he needs to die.

6-1 as scum, 5-10 as town, yeah we're lynching nobody special

See, this is why people had issues with your use of statistics.

NS at least has game experience. Most of us don't. Weaktown is a bad lynching argument, because that's NOT THE POINT. Lynch scum. Teach weaktown so that if they're the only players left endgame, they make the right choices.

You can't use that argument without attempting to apply it to every player present, but you can't because we're all new, and therefore don't HAVE winrates as factions to check against. Otherwise, you're just selectively targeting players using unreliable scumhunting methods.

You might be an aggressive player, but this is too much gusto for such a weak wagon attempt.

[Rikablu]

That whirlwind of posts from Yessiree...what.

I really don't understand what you're trying to do, from either perspective. The most constructive post I've seen from you in the last two days is 305, which...you immediately follow up with a self-vote. I'm more upset by the fact that you're self-voting after that debacle with Gene's slot earlier in the day than your post content (I'll be honest, I find a lot of 305 weak). The only reason I could see for you to set up a self-vote is to illicit a reaction, except I have no idea what that reaction's meant to reveal.

Are you trying to get town to tunnel vision on to you? Are you trying to find scum by how they jump the wagon? I feel like this is too strong of a gambit, because it requires finding scum in order to succeed. If you can't use the narrow window you've provided yourself to find scum on or off your wagon, based on their reaction to your self-vote, then you've died for very little reason. Presumably, it'd be easier to find scum in a difficult wagon to build than one built on the basis of 'wait he just voted himself that's scummy as hell'. Assuming that to be true, then you've essentially wasted the next day or two within Day 1 by focusing all attention on yourself rather than scum.

I will admit that seeing CDB jump on your self-vote after a period of silence is something. But as of this moment I don't think I can infer that action to be due to opportunistic scum CDB or lurker CDB reflexively voting self-voters. I lack evidence from the Gene wagon because he actually started the pile of votes, and then unvoted after Gene made some effort.


In regards to 305: Points of suspicion 1 and 3 I feel were sufficiently addressed previously in the game. NS is a particular kind of player. Labeling his as scummy is NOT what you do when his playstyle doesn't interact well with yours. After my question towards him (which I was surprised to find he answered extensively), I looked up more of his games. Just look at when he puts content down, and read in to why. His serious posts are there to acknowledge that the situation during that part of the Day is relevant. His posts (like 306) should inform you of how off-track your discussion has gone in regards to scumhunting. Adding in my perspective, your recent arguments with JKM haven't made him seem scummier in the slightest. The point's to look for scum, building up a player's towniness should only be a secondary action. Point number 3 was answered, repeatedly, during the Gene lynch: the point ISN'T to defend yourself. Your work, reads, and activity should speak for itself, barring significant tunneling disrupting town.


Something's come up in the middle of my posting, so here's what I've got for now. More will come later tonight when I have a stable 15 minutes.

[Rikablu]

I need to be replaced. Recent events have put me in a location with spotty internet (this is the first chance for me to successfully login in a day).