Newbie 1389 Trouble in River City Game Over Scum win


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Post Post #92 (isolation #0) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:34 am

Post by TheTrollie »

hey dudez ill catch up on this after i eat
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Post Post #93 (isolation #1) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:46 am

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yo kuesh...

u scum bro?
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Post Post #94 (isolation #2) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:50 am

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jason n' caps are town

VOTE: kueshina
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Post Post #98 (isolation #3) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:24 am

Post by TheTrollie »

In post 96, sikon327 wrote:With regards to The Trollie:

Now, I didn't make a big deal of it at the time, but believe me, I noticed that Morthas' behaviour seemed suspiciously like buddying.
in what way?
I was willing to write it off for the time being because he had stated that he had military obligations that would make it difficult for him to post often or with very much content, and also, I wanted to focus on my investigation of likeabauss.
how does this clear him from buddying

also, FYI, i do not think buddying is a scumtell in-and-of-itself. Scum sometimes will buddy their scumbuddies, which helps after a scum-flip occurs, but I buddy my town reads all the time.
Now his replacement, The Trollie, has made his first action to declare Kueshina scum ("You scum bro?"), and JasonWazza and cAPSLOCK to be town, and then not give even the remotest form of justification of any of these leads. If you think someone is scum or town,
say why you think that
.
(1) i'd like to nip this in the bud for once in a newbie game. I never go through a newbie game without people GOING WILD over my tendency to declare reads without giving reasons.
THIS IS WHAT I DO OFTEN AT THE START OF GAMES

(2) I wanted to get something out there for you all ASAP, i havent gone through the thread in enough detail yet to give you anything more than that.
In post 97, cAPSLOCK wrote:
In post 94, TheTrollie wrote:jason n' caps are town

VOTE: kueshina
Yeah but I HATE how he keeps his yard.
i dont understand
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Post Post #99 (isolation #4) » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:44 am

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UNVOTE:

i need to read this thread in more detail. I have a slight gut scumread on sikon based on a few things in the ISO but i really need to do more reading before i solidify my reads
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Post Post #107 (isolation #5) » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:36 am

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for 81, 85, and 97
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Post Post #109 (isolation #6) » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:18 am

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the whole football metaphor in 81 screams town
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Post Post #111 (isolation #7) » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:41 am

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oh, no way scum would risk talking about reads from an IC post. He'd stray clear away from that if he had any doubts about its legitimacy.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #8) » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:09 am

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In post 112, likeabauss wrote:This. Stinks. It's like a reverse psychology, future defense plant. "Yo guys, I'm not scum. If I was, I would've never said anything like I did in post 98. Hang WHOEVERELSE, scuzzy scum, my spidey senses are tingling."
wut? pls explain
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Post Post #120 (isolation #9) » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:09 pm

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ooo! i love guessing games!
In post 119, sikon327 wrote:I... still don't know about Morthas/Trollie. His posts... don't ring town to me. Then again, I guess I can't honestly say they ring scum either. I guess I shouldn't claim a scumread on him just yet. Trollie's Null.
Spoiler:
I'm town
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Post Post #131 (isolation #10) » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:23 am

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I will be V/LA from tonight at 10PM until Tuesday late-afternoon
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Post Post #149 (isolation #11) » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:12 pm

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ffery is uber town dude.

sik and kuesh (i think it was kuesh i was reading up on my phone earlier ill double check that soon) are scummy
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Post Post #192 (isolation #12) » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:23 am

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im back...was there a claim while i was gone? i seem to remember reading something on my phone but i forget...
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Post Post #194 (isolation #13) » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:08 pm

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Ok, well ff is town because she is playing very pro town.
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Post Post #220 (isolation #14) » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:49 am

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forgot about this game...woah
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Post Post #232 (isolation #15) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:21 am

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after next VC im ready to vote sik
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Post Post #245 (isolation #16) » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:48 am

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VOTE: sik

shhh....I'm lurking
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Post Post #251 (isolation #17) » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:45 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

In post 246, fferyllt wrote:
In post 245, TheTrollie wrote:VOTE: sik

shhh....I'm lurking
Hey, if you stop lurking maybe we could talk about the game?
yeah that would be cool. I have to catch up first though.
In post 248, likeabauss wrote:Also, if we can't/won't hang Fferyllt... I'm perfectly happy hanging Trollie for being absolutely useless.
I'm an investment. Eventually I'll start to care about this game and will make u a happy lil boy
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Post Post #253 (isolation #18) » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:50 pm

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In post 252, fferyllt wrote:For starters are you still townreading jason?
nah i think i lost that a while ago...didnt i post that?
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Post Post #257 (isolation #19) » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:10 pm

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In post 254, fferyllt wrote:I don't think you did.

What made you lose the townread?
well this post
In post 66, JasonWazza wrote:Ok since that rage post is out of my system i will re-read what i missed and post content.
is very town but his earlier posts were iffy. when i reread i realized that he wasnt obvtown
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Post Post #260 (isolation #20) » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:40 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

In post 17, sikon327 wrote:
fferyllt wrote:You should vote me, then, because I never RVS.
Well, if the IC tells me to, it must be a good idea!

VOTE: fferyllt
town
In post 22, sikon327 wrote:
In post 18, Kueshina wrote:Jason, I don't like your newbie-biting. If you expect all newbies to both do enough reading to know that mafiascum games start with an RVS and to notice that their confirmation is the one that starts the game, you're going to be disappointed a lot. However, this seems likely to be a nulltell rather than a scumtell.

david, I was in bed when my role pm arrived, and checking mafiascum is not the first thing I do when I get up. Besides, wouldn't it make sense for the last people to confirm to be the people with the least exciting roles, e.g. Vanilla Townie? (Not that I'm saying what role I am, except that I win with the town)
I'll VOTE: Vote:imkingdavid because this seems like bad logic.
This post causes me to think Kueshina leans town, simply because if he weren't, he would probably have known that mafia can talk during setup and wouldn't have found "stalling = mafia" to be quite so questionable as a reason to cast a random vote. Granted, his eagerness to assure us that he wins with the town could be thought of as off-putting, but I'm willing to assume this is innocent coming from one of the newbies for now. Of course, I think his scumread on imkingdavid is... misguided. He seems null to me.
In post 21, fferyllt wrote:Day 1s always start fine without me RVSing.
The thing is, though, that RVS is a way to start discussion and allow players to develop reads earlier, right? It seems to me that creating a meta of "does not RVS" simply allows you to escape scrutiny on those occasions when you
are
assigned scum, and RVSing may prove hazardous to you.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a newbie.

Also: I am not actually accusing you of
being
scum just yet, I obviously don't have a read on you. My vote is still an RVS vote.
fluff, more fluff, distancing, fluff.
Scum
In post 29, sikon327 wrote:Well, thanks for the vote of confidence, fferyllt, I appreciate that. And your argument for not RVSing does make sense, I suppose.
UNVOTE: fferyllt
The thing is, perhaps due in part to my lack of experience, I don't really know how else you'd start a game on day 1 with no information. It seems to me RVS has to at least
happen
, if only to get the ball rolling.
cAPSLOCK wrote:This pretty much. There seems to be plenty of flailing around going on, and I'll be glad to take part. I suppose if people weren't rvsing I'd most likely try to start something...
This is worded in a way that puzzles me somewhat. What is the "something" that you want to "try to start?"
fluffy.
its just my strongest scum read because of all the fluff in these posts
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Post Post #265 (isolation #21) » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:55 am

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i didnt mean u were distancing from anyone, it was the "what do i know im a newb" comment

best scum hunting comes from the first few pages
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Post Post #269 (isolation #22) » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:05 am

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In post 266, fferyllt wrote:wanted to let Trollie respond to that before saying anything, but my read of his post was that he meant you were distancing from your reads/opinions. Same with the "I'm not actually accusing you blah blah" part.
this is exactly how I use the term
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Post Post #270 (isolation #23) » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:07 am

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unvote
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Post Post #276 (isolation #24) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:14 am

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let's vote kues now
VOTE: kues
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Post Post #327 (isolation #25) » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:18 pm

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YAY NS/RACH mod team!

wuddup...why r we voting likeabauss?
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Post Post #335 (isolation #26) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:06 am

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dude i dont rly see him as scum. cant we lynch someone else?
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Post Post #337 (isolation #27) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:12 am

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ff will get to ur q in a sec. i dont necesarily need a kues lynch but i dont think bauss is very scummy, here is the post u directed me to regarding scum-bauss:
In post 313, likeabauss wrote:Sikon, roll with me on Fferyllt. I'm pretty sure Kue is town. Lynx, you too.
this in-and-of-itself reads fairly town to me. pretty genuine expression of trying to lead a wagon on a scum-read
For a comparison analysis, hanging Fferyllt over Kue is advantageous because:
Fferyllt is a more experienced player. Better/more experienced players hide their scum game well. An experienced player as scum, in a game of this size with waning involvement, can easily control the flow of info and conversation. Basically an experienced scum player is more dangerous to noob town than an experienced townie is helpful to a noob town. I'm thinking we have a mostly noob town here, and the mafia will be killing off any experienced town players in short order.
ok, so lets discuss:

@likeabauss:
this is so not true. (a) an experienced town player way helps town. (b) this is a bad reason to lynch someone, especially on D1. if on D3 u have no good leads and ur still paranoid about an experienced player playing a good scum game, then MAYBE u should consider that lynch (c) you need to weigh your read on the person against this analysis, which means (1) since I have a town read on FF that would be a dumb lynch and (2) since it is more likely for her to be town than scum, its stupid to lynch on the basis of "oh no if she is scum she is gonna beat us up" (d) you say urself that scum will kill off experienced townies (not true, but lets assume u really feel that way). that means its stupid to lynch FF if you think she would be the obvious target of the NK.

@ff and whoever else thinks this is scummy
: its not, its just wrong. This looks like newbtown more than newbscum. newbscum is usually too cautious to make these types of pushes, especially on D1, and especially when there is resistance to the lynch they are trying to push (which, I at least am being resistant to).
Plus I'm pretty sure Fferyllt is mafia and Kue is town.

Also, her short list for hanging includes the most vocal (active) scum hunters in this game. Me, caps, and Cheery. Doesn't that bother anybody else?
no, it doesnt.

@ff: is caps still on ur scum list? what is ur reasoning there? Also i would consider a Cheery lynch i think, i saw some things i wasnt thrilled about in a recent CD post. will dig that up in a sec.
We need to hang somebody, and I'll derail the Kue wagon until I'm blue in the face because Fferyllt is a better tactical lynch even if you aren't sure what to do, or who is town/scum. BTW, I think Kue is town and Fferyllt is mafia. Did I say that yet? Should I say it again?
ok, so (a) this is another townie thing to say, the joking nature of the last line sounds pretty town. (b) as noted above, we are not lynching ff
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Post Post #338 (isolation #28) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:24 am

Post by TheTrollie »

unvote


just did a re-read on kues and dont know what gave me such scum vibes...

im gonna re ISO the players i havent really thought about too much later tonight...i know we are close to deadline but id really like to not vote bauss if i can help it
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Post Post #346 (isolation #29) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:15 am

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ff, ill re-read caps, also what happened to the jason scum-read some of you had? ill ISO him too. My town read on caps was really strong but because of that i havent been paying much attention to him at all, so im willing to change that read if i find something in the ISO

i get what you are saying about bauss's strategy. it makes sense BUT i think his town story makes more sense. Also, your reasoning for what he is doing is equally applicable to town-bauss who is trying to replicate his winning strat in his last game
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Post Post #348 (isolation #30) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:41 am

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I will say that the line in likeabauss's 313 post that is like "scum will probably want to kill off experienced town" (referring to ff) is pretty bad though. town-bauss should have realized that didnt make sense.
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Post Post #349 (isolation #31) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:58 am

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I see the scum-likeabauss argument now...i have a gut-feeling that this is a bad lynch but i'd be lying if i said there weren't some highly questionable things in his play. so, scum things in bauss's play:

(1) he withholds info OFTEN. a lot of "i have my reasons..." post, some of which go on to ask others for their input which is sometimes indicative of scum wading the waters and trying to get a lynch going without being the real ringleader
(2)My biggest concern is that he is just tunneling so hard on ff for what seem to be very bad reasons. If im saying he is town, i have to accept that he somehow thinks his case makes sense.

bauss, i need you to be very clear on what your case is against ff. I TRUELY don't see ff scum, and the only arguments for how she could be scum that I see are totally unconvincing...here are some questions:
In post 146, likeabauss wrote:1) I vote, stay vague, and say I have some reasons.
2) She utters a no content response that says "I thought you were scum, but now I'm not so sure because you're voting for me." (which I initially misinterpreted.)
why is it surprising or scummy that she gives a "no content response" to a no content ("vague") read. what type of content in the response are you looking for when you never gave any content for her to respond to? how does this indicate her scum alignment?
3) I escalate in response, and point her to your case, and that of Lynx_Shine (which she basically ignored from the get go.)
4) She responds again with another "no real content post." (correcting me on parsing, but then completely dodging the two arguments against her again.) An hour later, giving her plenty of time to respond to both, she asks somebody else to post more content.
granted, i have not looked closely at this, but your explanation of this exchange does not make me think ff was being very scummy. maybe point me in the direction of where this was?
5) At this point, I reply a bit more inflammatory, and hint at a piece of the case against her:
This is one of my key reasons I think she is scum, but how does she respond?
6)She gives me exactly what I asked for. 3 scum suspects, her reasons for all 3, and a vote for one... not before offering an excuse for why she hadn't done it yet:
so she is really scummy because she gave you what you asked for when you finally made a not-so-vague request?

Really, REALLY need to hear more from bauss about why ff is scum, otherwise i think i am going to believe that bauss is just tunneling scum.

gotta track down that meta ff was referring to on bauss.
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Post Post #350 (isolation #32) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:22 am

Post by TheTrollie »

ok, lets discuss the utterly stupid ff "case"

as far as i can tell there are 4 arguments being made

(1)Her IC post says she may be scum
Spoiler: 114
In post 114, cAPSLOCK wrote:
In post 112, likeabauss wrote:
What is your read on fferyllt's IC post that you mentioned? Mine says scum. Tell me the reason for your read and I'll tell you mine?
Gladly. And the main reason I didn't jump right on it was I was seriously curious if it was bad form to mention a read from her in that mode. Since I have seen no clear answer to that I will carry on as if it is not.
In post 84, fferyllt wrote:
IC IntroAll of our roles were assigned randomly, so my chances of being town or scum were exactly the same as yours.
First of all. Unless she is somewhat obsessive I do not see any reason to be so clear here. It sounds a lot like "I am here to help you in spite of the fact that I
may actually be scum
. No really. don't be mad at the end... and know I will be fair as an IC anyway."

Then later:
In post 84, fferyllt wrote:
IC IntroI am playing for my team to win, though, so please treat me with the same skepticism in my non-IC posting that you treat everyone else.
Another nod towards awareness that she is not necessarily town. But why? Why admonish us not once but TWICE to remember that she is our advocate at the site in spite of the fact she may not be in the game.

She doth protest too much. It's really that simple.

And I asked her if this was boiler plate to the end of understanding if it had context in this game. A google search for these exact wordsturns up this: No results found for "All of our roles were assigned randomly".

I asked
Is that IC post personal boilerplate? Is it bad that I got a read from it? :-) am I not allowed to do that?
and she responded:
Yeah, it's personal, though I looked at a few IC posts by others in thinking about what to include. Some IC's put in a lot of do this don't do that in theirs, but it doesn't look like this is a crowd that needs to be warned not to self-hammer or hammer someone without a chance to role-claim.
Since this is her first IC I think she just wrote it. It is not boiler plate yet... and I bet we see it change in the future. :eek: The fact she did not address the direct question of whether or not I am allowed to get (and discuss) a read from it makes me even more suspicious.

FWIW I am grateful for the fact the site does this in the newbie area and I feel a little bad for getting such a strong scum read from it.

DUMB
(a) that is a common thing for IC posts to say. every newbie game ive played in the IC has made that statement because its important for the newbies to know that just because the IC is there to help them understand the game it doesnt mean they arent going to helpful to town necessarily
(b) u r really saying she is scummy for saying she might be scum. HEY, GUESS WHAT, I MAY BE SCUM TOO can i be a scumread now?

(2) she has town reads? (this cant honestly be what ur argument is, is it?)
Spoiler: post 127
(
In post 127, Lynx_Shine wrote: Ran a quick ISO on ffery; I can remember the other players for the most part but she stuck outspecifically as "she posted a lot maybe what even did she say." I found several posts arguing against RVS's usefulness, several about meta, spoke with Trollie a bit about reads on caps.
In post 26, fferyllt wrote:I have a tentative town read on you for instance.
"You" being sikon. This was early and a tentative read, no reason needed to back it up.
In post 108, fferyllt wrote:Agree on 85 and 97. I may be too much a part of the topic to judge re 81.
Agrees with Trollie when he offers his proof on caps after ffery specifically asks him for the reason, but never gives her own reads or reasoning. The IC is claiming Town reads on two players, shows no proof of her own hunting or clearing?

i dont even know what to say against this. if you think this is a good argument for scum-ff u r lying to urself.

(3) she hasnt given adequate responses to the "case" against her.

guess what: she's being nice, i wouldnt have responded at all. There is no content for her to respond to.

(4) this stupid 313 post by bauss which says that lynching the iC is a good play. not going to respond to that cuz i already did a few posts earlier.

I need to read meta on bauss, especially this previous game where he used the same strat.

while im doing that. Bauss, you need to make it clear what your arguments are for why ff is scum. I've had enough of this "oh i have my reasons" and the "im gonna vaguely alude to my reasons" BS. i want a case from you right now. doesnt have to be a wall, just give me what your reasons are for thinking ff is scum. I dont see it. I dont believe you could actually see ff as scum if you are being genuine.

sidenote: this post comes after the two hes been referencing as points for why she is scum, so like definitely possible that this is scum instigating things
In post 132, likeabauss wrote:
VOTE: fferyllt


That feels good.

I believe you to be scum. I have many reasons that I will share when the time is right. For now, I will wait patiently while others weigh in and share their opinions.

What say you all? Is fferyllt scum or am I crazy?
oh also ur crazy.
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Post Post #351 (isolation #33) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:39 am

Post by TheTrollie »

i'm gonna wait to vote until i let likeabauss respond to my questions, however, after all the things mentioned in my recent posts, and after reading the bauss game ff directed me to, I am on board for a LAB lynch.
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Post Post #359 (isolation #34) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:02 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

In post 357, likeabauss wrote:Nowhere in that scenario is Fferyllt an experienced townie though, I think she's scum.
so let's not lynch her and see what happens tonight.

I'm ready to vote bauss... i still have a gut town feeling on him but he's not helpful cuz he's stupidly tunneling and hes being scummy enough that I will want him dead before the end of the game anyway
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Post Post #360 (isolation #35) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:04 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

is he back at l1
if so take this as intent to hammer.

claim time bauss
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Post Post #366 (isolation #36) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:54 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

VOTE: bauss
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Post Post #412 (isolation #37) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:16 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

yo son
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Post Post #485 (isolation #38) » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:22 am

Post by TheTrollie »

did sikon crumb his PR?
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Post Post #538 (isolation #39) » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:29 pm

Post by TheTrollie »

ima need to reread this...kinda gonna be LA until monday but ill post enough to not make it official
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Post Post #563 (isolation #40) » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:29 am

Post by TheTrollie »

waiting for replacement before i do anything with cheery
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Post Post #656 (isolation #41) » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:29 am

Post by TheTrollie »

i wanna vote grimm but that slot was SOOOO town before
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Post Post #662 (isolation #42) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:40 am

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yo, what did CD claim?

I'll fucking hammer just to get this shit going. Im not sold that he is scum but holy fuck this discussion is going nowhere.
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Post Post #664 (isolation #43) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:10 am

Post by TheTrollie »

honestly grimm is just a gut read based on the wagon and the way he's reacting to ppl im reading as town.
since u asked i just isod him and am less confident in my gut read. the way he reacted in 645 was very good, very town. level headed and rational, genuine post. that's also how I felt about caps actually. both of their posts really make it seem like they have nothing to hide. I just don't think we have great leads in this game. I've been busy so I haven't put as much time into this game as I'd like to put in. if all of you have had cd where he is for this long then idk that's probably a good lynch. a counterwagon will likely be rushed and less warranted. also the cd flip at the very least could be very helpful. cd has been on l1 for a long time and that says a lot about the possible alignments of those on and off his wagon once we know the flip.
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Post Post #681 (isolation #44) » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:47 pm

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agree with ffs, tip is probable scum with a CD flip...

i was about to hammer but im gonna wait to see if anyone objects first...

im about to hammer
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Post Post #740 (isolation #45) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:19 am

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omg i forgot about this game...oye...ill catch up as soon as i can
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Post Post #807 (isolation #46) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:10 am

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In post 792, RachMarie wrote:Trollie was the doc and he protected fery last night. He protected her every night.
i thought i protected someone different the second night...i could be wrong i lost track of this game many times through the run
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