Newbie 1389 Trouble in River City Game Over Scum win

[Lynx_Shine]

/confirm

[Lynx_Shine]

This thing just happened to start the day I had to go to a company picnic, hence the confirm and disappear.

As for how to start day 1, depending on the setup:

massclaim

, some PRs claim to get doc/watcher protection but others say hidden, hypocopping, in dethy and similar everyone outs their reports, if there's a bulletproof the get told that they get shot, they claim if they got shot, if there's no bulletproof but

there's a doc and no kill, sometimes they tell everyone who they saved

, etc.

I might've missed something in that mess of formatting, but I'm locking in on the ones I bolded. Where are you getting that a massclaim would ever be a good idea for Town on Day 1? "Power roles all of you claim and hope we have Doc to protect you and scum aren't pulling false roles from the open chart." Why would the Doctor

ever

reveal just to say they saved somebody? They'll get killed now.

Also not sure why you claim ffery is buddying sikon after they had a brief argument/discussion over play preference. Above anything she's the IC and sikon doesn't have a little two-letter title, that sounds like the natural place to go to ask a meta question.

VOTE: Kueshina

I just want to point out that Kueshina and imkingdavid just demonstrated real scum hunting in their most recent posts. Thoughtful insights and additions to the conversation that warrant consideration and exploration.

Could you elaborate a bit more on Kue? Both of their answers came down to "it was just RVS", but while imking brings up a legitimate point, Kue is trying to find partners based on vote analysis before anything. My issue with this is "X and Y are partners" potentially lines up "well X wasn't actually scum, but maybe Y is so let's go for that lynch."

This may be a meta thing, so two wolves typically start a wagon or copy each others' votes so hard here?

the way Morthas copied sikon327's vote on likeabauss makes me wonder if Morthas and sikon723 are scumpartners, although it also seems possible that likeabauss and sikon723 are scumpartners distancing themselves.

He's not even consistent on whether scum partners buddy or create distance in the same sentence.

[Lynx_Shine]

Lynx_Shine - A wise mafia man I once knew said "When in doubt, hang the lurkers." Mostly because their actions are not pro-town (they are either lurking intentionally as scum, or not helping the town by way of not contributing, so TL;DR HANG THEM.) How would you feel about us stringing you up for failing to help the town?

I've played under the same guideline, I've just let other things be more prominent at the moment and MS isn't on my auto-pilot "check this site before school." In this case it being Day 1 I'd sooner sub out than be lynched (or preferably in my case get off my ass and check the site) since there's about two weeks left until the Day ends, according to the vote count. If I don't post, then yeah by all means lynch me instead of somebody more proactive. Otherwise calling for a lynch now is jumping the gun quite a bit.

Morthas I was looking at as scum, but he replaced out instead of continuing with sparse and nearly useless posts, so I don't have much on Trollie based on Morthas's posts. He seems okay.

jason n' caps are town

You gave reason for caps, specifics on Jason?

I believe the word you were looking for is "rude". Anyway, I prefer to avoid giving out private information on the internet to strangers in public fora.

Not sure if child overly offended at being called out for acting childishly, or overly-offended and stubborn adult due to being confused for a child.

I would except scumbuddies to buddy, but I hear it's common of mafiascum for the to distance so as to seem more town.]

I've only ever seen/heard of uber-newb scum buddying each other on the thread. One of the first things people usually do after somebody flips scum is check their posts over the Night phase for defense and buddying. There's no reason to hang on every word a player says when you're going to talk to them privately later. (I'm not entirely sure about here, but where I play, white-knighting is really popular and most scum make a point to not bring up their partners at all.)

Lynx_Shine seemed to think this was wrong because it was impossible for massclaiming d1 to ever be a good idea.

Regardless of how bad of an idea I think it is, was massclaim really necessary as the first thing on a list of things we could do in this setup?

Ran a quick ISO on ffery; I can remember the other players for the most part but she stuck outspecifically as "she posted a lot maybe what even did she say." I found several posts arguing against RVS's usefulness, several about meta, spoke with Trollie a bit about reads on caps.

I have a tentative town read on you for instance.

"You" being sikon. This was early and a tentative read, no reason needed to back it up.

Agree on 85 and 97. I may be too much a part of the topic to judge re 81.

Agrees with Trollie when he offers his proof on caps after ffery specifically asks him for the reason, but never gives her own reads or reasoning. The IC is claiming Town reads on two players, shows no proof of her own hunting or clearing?

[Lynx_Shine]

EBWOP ffery coming in ninjaing me a few minutes before I got that posted

[Lynx_Shine]

Condolences, sikon, I hope things go well for you.

I'm not really into big reads lists after 6 pages of day 1. Some games I never do post a compendium about all players.

I can't blame you for the lack of long read-lists six pages in. Other than that I still have the previous concerns. Example, JasonWazza is cited directly below (Post 137) as being active-lurky, but you also said right above in 136 that you don't scum-hunt until late because there's nothing to go off of. I'm coming in as never played a game with anybody here and I'm not relying on secondhand meta dives to tell me someone might be Town because they did that before while I wasn't there. The active posting without scum-hunting is essentially active-lurking.

What say you all? Is fferyllt scum or am I crazy?

I think she leans, not enough that I'd vote her over Kue at the moment.

I don't get an apologetic sense from sikon's early posts at all. Insecure, maybe, but I think that's par for the course for a first game at MS.

Agreed that being soft spoken isn't a scumtell on its own. Everyone's a bunch of strangers for most of us.

How about her Lynx_Shine post? Oh yeah:

In post 144, fferyllt wrote:Lynx_Shine

I like her two posts. Would like to see more posts and more follow-up. In the interest of promoting follow-up...

MORE buttering up to a person that is suspicious of her.

I'm personally glad to see this opinion at least. I see twice so far "Lynx's posts are good, she should post more" and I'm not sure if that's from a legit standpoint or minor guilt-tripping. I've guilt-tripped like that once before, made them just a little less likely to vote me over someone else, and it bought me a Day or two. Considering I've gone hardest after her and Kue (who I don't know if she sees Town or Scum), it just seems odd to say unless she has a secret thing against him.

ffery is uber town dude.

If you don't usually post proof with reads you probably get sick of being asked. But considering I'm nearly between ffery and Kue I'd like to know where you see Town in her if likeabauss and I are reading scum.

Speaking of Kueshina, he disappeared too after being accused scum.

[Lynx_Shine]

ffery sorry I wasn't there, I posted that right before school and I'm on now right before I have to be in bed. Monday through Thursday I'm not computer-able a good portion of the day, but weekends I should be a lot more free than I am now after the first week of July.

As for how to start day 1, depending on the setup: massclaim, some PRs claim to get doc/watcher protection but others say hidden, hypocopping, in dethy and similar everyone outs their reports, if there's a bulletproof the get told that they get shot, they claim if they got shot, if there's no bulletproof but there's a doc and no kill, sometimes they tell everyone who they saved, etc.
In this particular setup, I suspect that if any of those strategies were worthwhile, people would be doing them instead of the RVS. Our PRs are safer not claiming (with the possible exception of the BP, but in the newbie games I've read noone asks for BP claims d1), and it's day start; noone was saved from a kill and no one has any reports.

I wanna bring this up first because I've come back to this a few times, and it may be rendered moot depending on Kue's actual experience level vs my perceived. Kue in 159 says massclaim was on "the list of things we couldn't do in this setup." I don't see it said that it's what can't be done, but the most important thing I'm looking at is the placement itself.

First thing, from my point of view, I see buzzwords and pointing fingers in the first post, so I'm expecting experience since I know literally nothing about him (for all I know he's a she, it's not listed). So from there, it's...I'm failing to think of the word but "suggestion" comes to mind. You'll usually remember only the begining of things if you skim, so you bring up important things. Alternatively, if we had an actual newb in here, god forbid they were one of the PRs because nowhere in that paragraph did it say, "I'm not saying to do this." When it comes down to it I might've just seen him as a bigger threat than he really was just because he knows how to throw words around.

Aside from that, highly defensive and disappeared around the tag you and bauss were brought up for discussion, which is common to drop off the radar. He came back since I last posted, but what rubs me the wrong way about the reappearance is it's when he's brought up again, and it's to jump on the case against you.

As it stands now I've become torn, right now it honestly doesn't look like both of you are scum together short of Kue pulling a crouching moron hidden badass.

The glacial pace of this game is making me seriously antsy.

Is the pace not normal of newbie games? I know someone playing on the main part of the site, his game's moving much faster, but the post numbers in the new section all look lower in comparison.

[Lynx_Shine]

Right or wrong, I am taking this at face value.

Ended up missing that first time around, caught it on a reread just a bit ago. Which is heading in that obnoxious rut of "not sure if newb or scum." Either way I don't personally see it as full clear, just eases up the massclaim fiasco.

[Lynx_Shine]

I'm curious if anybody doesn't think he's being too defensive. This may be another difference with epic mafia that I don't know about, but "a few games" should be enough to pick up that Townies aren't defensive, Scum are typically. Along the same lines of Townies shouldn't self-vote, or have no need to lie in most cases. (Unless there's reasons to do that here that I wouldn't even know about.)

Took Jasonwazza's posts personally.

In post 93, TheTrollie wrote:yo kuesh...

u scum bro?
No.

In post 112, likeabauss wrote:[...]
Kueshina - This may be a bit unconventional, but would you place yourself in the "older than 25" or "younger than 25" age group?
[...]
I believe the word you were looking for is "rude". Anyway, I prefer to avoid giving out private information on the internet to strangers in public fora.

Same with bauss and Trollie, lashing out all over the place.

david, I was in bed when my role pm arrived, and checking mafiascum is not the first thing I do when I get up. Besides, wouldn't it make sense for the last people to confirm to be the people with the least exciting roles, e.g. Vanilla Townie? (Not that I'm saying what role I am, except that I win with the town)
I'll VOTE: Vote:imkingdavid because this seems like bad logic.
Defensive about arrival time, claims town, implies/denies vanilla.

If this wasn't open I'd be wondering about the phrase "win with the Town," there's a good chance I'm reading too far into some of this. I know someone else earlier came out and said "I'm Town" so that isn't something I'm worrying about.

But I actually wholly disagree with the statement that a "less exciting" role would confirm last. If you've read your role PM you're able to confirm, and a VT has no reason to stall. Confirm and narrow down the pregame time. Since they can't do anything at night anyways, VTs are most expendable and are usually most vocal because if they die, the Doc/Cop/something else is still alive. Also probably worth mentioning is that he was the last to confirm, putting him in his own category of VT or Scum.

It's hitting am hours, I'll try to be back on before school tomorrow.

[Lynx_Shine]

I'm just coming on long enough to say I'll still be away for a short while. I have a dentist appointment tomorrow (have been missing school because of the toothache and things) and will have a big "I missed things" post in a couple days depending on how things go.

[Lynx_Shine]

Ended up having two dentist appointments in short succession instead of one (they couldn't safely do that much work in one visit), so I was gone a little longer than expected. And by that I mean a lot longer, those painkiller shots tear me up. Hopefully this doesn't come out too wall-ish. (On the plus side I'm not going to class today so I should be here most of the day, since I think N1 is coming up?)

I think I like Cheery Dog. Not sure if because he lookes Townish or if I like how he plays or if it's the medicine or if it's just that icon.

I don't have a specific post to call Jason out on, I'm just with the others on active-lurky. He comes in to see if there's still something on cAPS it looks like, then hides again. But I've also forgotten about games where the mod didn't send out frequent prods and the other players weren't active, so I'll leave this at "not worth voting yet" unless it keeps looking convenient.

Sikon's brief rage post seems like the good kind of AtE. More the genuine frustration and regret than scummy things unless he's gonna pull a crouching moron hidden excellent actor and post-copier. Unlikely.

Ok, well ff is town because she is playing very pro town.

Did an expository statement run over your dog as a kid or something Jesus fuck.

Since I have been your tunneling target I waited more than if I had been an observer alone. But as others have also noted your obsessive behavior I was able to discount the weight of my bias.

cAPS and Jason look like they've just been tunneling each other for awhile in their own personal tunnel of love boat ride. I don't like that he votes Jason soon after Cheery Dog posts a short case against him, but even less I like that he unvotes as soon as Jason calls him out on it. I probably would've left this if not for the immediate unvote, it's defensive and the quicker you are to pull a vote, the less weight it looks like you have on a person.

What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of full, ranked reads lists?

This question still relevant? I generally like reading them, and they're some of my favorite things late game after players are dead and some scum is confirmed through role flips, huge advantage on that since they're harder to leave out scum partners. Disadvantage PR Townies can be just as likely to lie about their reads as scum are, don't want to point out the whole scum team before Night. I don't think refusing to post a full reads list is scummy on its own.

Post 84: Posts her IC "boilerplate" more or less unbidden on page 4. Closest thing to a reason to do it then would be that Kue had just placed a vote on her, citing lack of scumhunting being a strange behaviour for an experienced player (an IC). I'm uneasy drawing reads from the actual content of it (even though it obviously can't be a real boilerplate in her first IC game), but the fact that she didn't post it until someone had accused her of not scumhunting is... let's say odd.

...

fferyllt's play seems to be very... reactionary. Those posts that she has made which contain content that could be considered relevant to the town aim of actually identifying scum, by and large, seem to have responses to things that have been said directly to her or have directly referenced her, not accounting for the occasional clarifying question.

I'd call unfair/out-of-game reasoning on the IC post, which I basically passed off as poor timing or lack of planning on that. But reactionary I like more, pulling those together. It's a good distraction, similar vein of sudden VLA when you're in the spotlight I think.

sikon, to me, finding town is every bit as important as finding scum. When I get a town read, it takes quite a bit to shake it.

I agree that Town reads are just as important. But there's a bigger issue that Scum reads are worth from any player, while Town reads are harder to prove to most people and it's harder to tell how sincere. Town reads are important but worth less unless the player is confirmed Town, partially (I think) because it's easy and safe for Scum who knows allignments to point and say "I think x is Town" early on, and be seen as Town-hunting right out of the gate.

I had a lot of trouble putting those words together, if it doesn't make sense I'll clear it up when the painkillers kick in.

shhh....I'm lurking

Last time I saw someone admit to lurking (ironically or not), he was lynched for insisting that lurking isn't scummy. I've still got my vote on Kue, but even with his inactivity/severe case of buttsore, I think we might get more info out of Trollie than Kue. (Possibly. Some of my suspicions on ffery hang on Kue's allignment and I'm still swinging that way.)

fluff, more fluff, distancing, fluff.
Scum

...
fluffy.
its just my strongest scum read because of all the fluff in these posts

If long posts are scummy then I'm in line for being hung as a witch.

best scum hunting comes from the first few pages

I actually totally disagree with this. The early game is where a bunch of people who probably haven't played together try to get comfortable and almost everybody is guarded, late game is when scum has to keep track of lies and try not to backpedal too obviously.

[Lynx_Shine]

EBWOP dammit I almost posted a "Hi I'm here don't prod me while I read" but I saw there were no big blue mod posts in awhile so it turned into "what are the chances that she'll be back in the time it takes me to post?" Am actually here this time for real.

[Lynx_Shine]

let's vote kues now

VC brought my attention to this. "Lynx is the only vote on Kue, make it a wagon." Trollie's reasonless posts are tearing me apart, you guys positive this is normal Town behavior? I mean, having the extra Town vote is nice and he's not exactly harmful but damn.

Hey Lynx - Your vote is still on Kueshina from way back early on in the day phase. Is that still where it belongs in your opinion?

I think we'll get the most information from a Kue or ffery lynch, unless we get a much different sub in for him. Right now Kue is safer - ffery teeters enough that I'd rather not lose that much Town-hunting this early if it can be avoided, but I wouldn't object to a lynch if it came to it. We're getting to that point where it'll be short on time soon.

Town reads lead to town cores and ultimately to town consensus and strategy. The danger of town cores is that scum will do their best to join them, and that really screws the consensus and strategy aspect. People who can find town and form a decent core have a big impact on how a game evolves. In one of my first games at ms, a player recommended a core on day 1. He picked up every town power role among his town reads. The town core didn't quite get its act together on day 1, but by day 3 it was basically a juggernaut and had control of the game until it was won.

Town cores scare me quite a bit, mostly from a bad experience. I've seen them in two games so far, one of them the game was canceled early Day 2 from player action. The other, the town block was actually four or so Wolves who recruited a Townie or two and took a near-flawless win. Considering how paranoid everyone can be, it seems risky and takes a lot of widely-accepted pro-Town/Town-hunters. It sounds like a good idea if it's pulled off though.

[Lynx_Shine]

Dunno if have to announce VLA beforehand, but starting tomorrow afternoon I'll be away through Sunday for Anime Expo. I may be able to post from the hotel, but from what it looks like I'll mostly be away during Night anyways.

Where I play I've never actually heard of or used a read list thing analysis for NKs. I've torn through them and found scum, but they were always a disadvantage if you weren't Town. So that's new to me.

Trollie just seems disinterested. I guess not scummy, just frustrating.

Bauss is L-1, not what I expected to see. I don't see him as hardscum, but if he does flip, I think it clears ffery of any suspicion I personally have. If Town, no change. I'd go him over no lynch.

Cheery/IamKingDavid have been anything but vocal scumhunters, bauss. It's why they are currently in my list. Cheery can change that by getting into this game and doing shit.

I'm teetering enough on cAPS that I'm not actively opposed to it. Mostly a few back-and-forths. Cheery has been kind of there, kinda townish maybe so far imo but not highly vocal after their first few page.

The argument of "lynch the most experienced" is sketchy as hell. That's exactly why I'm hesitant on actually attempting a ffery wagon as opposed to Kue because we lose that much experience because she

might

be hiding well.

wuddup...why r we voting likeabauss?

Are you even bothering to read the thread? It was like

10 posts previous.

I don't plan to hammer since there's another day and this wagon may fall apart as quickly as it came together, I may change my mind in the morning if nobody else has.

[Lynx_Shine]

I was a little behind on activity even before my VLA, sorry about that, it was mostly last-minute costume things taking my time. (The timing was kinda sketchy unfortunately, but I've got the pictures to prove this.) Got home pretty recently and I've got what I missed read. Bauss's flip has me side-eyeing ffery, I'm not entirely sure on Kue, and I'm not that trusting of cAPS. Accidental hammers happen, I've seen it, but it happens often enough that it's a really easy out. (I'd like to see how his replacement plays before I go after him too hard.)

But I just wanna get this out of the way that I probably trust Trollie the least right now. Same train of thought as cAPS's hammer; it happens often enough that it can't be used as a read thing on its own. "He always plays that poorly so he could be Town." It doesn't mean he's got a good poker face, it means his content is so sparse you can't get a read because he's not doing anything.

VOTE: TheTrollie

yo son

You start off the Day with that. Seriously? It's been two pages since your last post and you have two words? No reads changed? No suspects? Nothing at all to elaborate? This was about 26 minutes after the Day update, were you really lurking that hard just to have the first post?

1739 words through this whole thread across 37 posts, a majority under 20 words each. Yo son, do you even play?

VOTE: sik

shhh....I'm lurking

Hey, if you stop lurking maybe we could talk about the game?

yeah that would be cool. I have to catch up first though.

Also, if we can't/won't hang Fferyllt... I'm perfectly happy hanging Trollie for being absolutely useless.

I'm an investment. Eventually I'll start to care about this game and will make u a happy lil boy

Or you could stop lurking and stop being a waste of a player slot. Any word on that catching up yet?

I'd ISO further but there's not much else that I haven't already said because there's barely anything there. His few longer posts are "I agree with everybody in these bullet points I used to pad out the post" or "you guys are dumb but I won't offer an alternative because that would be productive."

[Lynx_Shine]

Huh, I didn't expect more than maybe two pages while I was gone. My original plan was to get all my homework for this month's unit done all at once (it's a year-round trade school, no summer break for me) so I can be online consistently this month instead of leaving for homework at random times. I'll be on more frequently, no more homework (and hell if I'm going to take the time to study so none of that either).

inb4 someone comes in calling for my prod three minutes before I post

You've been side-eyeing me since just about your first post. What did bauss' flip add to the mix? And what did you think about his other reads?

Nah, I'd been going with you as probably Town the last week or so of Day 1? We agreed on quite a few things, I wouldn't call you the most definitive scum-hunter but you look pretty okay. Then we lose an experienced player and active scum-hunter Day 1 primarily due to your pushing the wagon when we were all on someone else less active (if Kue is Town he's harmless to Scum and an unprofitable lynch), and he comes up Town. His other reads I already said I don't like Trollie, I'm obviously not going to agree with the accusation that I'm scum, and Jason I've been null-to-light-scum. Sorta active-lurky, throws fairly emotional accusations at times, seems honest enough when he actually does post, if tunnelish.

I would have liked to know what I did, because unless I missed the post I only saw "focus on Trollie, Lynx, Jason." If it was something other than my less-than-stellar activity, I'd personally love to know what he thought about it.

This guy was obvtown and got lynched, there's most definitely scum on that wagon, and it's obvious it's experienced scum because there's no way newbies could have set him up like that. Damn.

QFT and I'm not going to quote your entire series of posts, but I like you. Was borderline on cAPS-scum but this is good. There's not much I could add in beyond "yes I agree on ffery and I can't believe I missed that post while I was leaning her Town."

My best guess of the scum team is 2 of cheery, jason and Lynx.

I find it painfully convenient that bauss tells you to go after three specific players, and your current scumreads are the two players from that list that post more than two sentences apiece, and the guy grimgroove has a case against that isn't you.

What I don't like is ffery and Cheery specifically targeting each other. There's distance, and then there's "I really want you to go after this guy even if you do lynch me." I'm torn on it because on one hand both are scum pulling risky distance. On the other, we lynch one, and it turns out they just lined up a Town lynch. This kind of WIFOM just isn't for me, damn.

Grim baby, you don't need to convince the scum they are scum.

Chill with the buddying though. It was stuff like this "vote but not really provide own argument" that was the lean-scum.

VOTE: jasonwazza

Because you are not doing shit in this game.

Calling Jason Town if we lynch ffery and she flips Scum. Trollie hasn't really done shit either, nor has Kue. But bauss says "hey ffery target Jason" and now you can safely follow the conftown.

I believe Trollie is town. Kue is leaning town. That leaves Cheery, Lynx and jasowazza.

How is Jason different from Kue and Trollie? I don't disagree that it's possible one of the three is scum (only one of the three, no more if not none and we ended up with inactive low-content Townies). Other than them posting too little for a proper read, but I'd go null/irrelevant there before calling Town. Is grimgroove overeager Scum or obvstown from his opening posts?

I knew that would get your attention. Now, why are you reading me as scum? You never went into detail on day 1.

"I didn't slip it was a gambit."

I'll add a Cheery vote if he doesn't hit L1 before I actually post this.

[Lynx_Shine]

Okay I actually miscounted how many votes Cheery had in the first place. So he's already at L1 but whatever changes nothing, that's why I checked before voting.

[Lynx_Shine]

It's what you haven't done, which is dig into this game and make any sort of difference. You had zero impact on the two main bandwagons from yesterday, and hence zero impact on the lynch. Zero. And yet you are an obviously experienced player. Life happens, but the game day lasted over three weeks.

The game started at a bad time for me, inconvenient for everyone involved, I should've put more priority into it, I should've posted more, I've already come out and said these things and there's nothing I can do about it now but post more now that my main summer stuff is over. The month of homework puts me at available all through D2 and all I can do now is post and make up for it.

But which two main wagons? I know one has to be bauss and why the hell would I

want

to have influenced that wagon? He was Townie, I didn't want to vote him, and he goes and flips Townie. I'd say I had a whole lot more impact on suggesting other less Town lynch candidates than your Town-read Trollie "cant we lynch someone else?" The high amount of double standards here is making my head spin on why something is scummy when one player does it, but another player is called Town.

If you are scum, then it's a real shame you arrived after there was a slight momentum shift.

What can I say, I've got a well-practiced terrible sense of timing.

I'm using the experiential meta I have with Jason. And this also is outdated. I provoked what I believe is a town reaction from him and unvoted him.

I wouldn't know anything about meta, but I'm talking before his shift to Town read. Another thing that's apparently only scummy with some players until suddenly changing your mind and it applies to that person too.

This is the only part of your post that makes me wonder if you could be town. But, by this point, if not when you started this post, you are aware of the momentum change. Not that it can't swing back.

The momentum change...to Cheery? Who I'd pinned null-Town up until grimgroove's posts? If I was lurking for an opportunity to push an already-moving wagon I would've jumped on any of the posts before they wanted to put Cheery to L1. I'd have been far more suspicious if I had posted in Jason's place, for example, latching onto grimgroove's posts "I agree with you bro lemme put a vote." Either I missed something or we're on totally different pages.

UNVOTE:

Getting this out of the way early.

[Lynx_Shine]

So, I'm open to the possibility that you are town. But, I'm skeptical, because I'm pretty happy with my Kue and trollie reads from day 1.

Trollie I'm willing to sit back and say Town right now, I get really emotional about the way people type. So if nobody else finds that scummy, I'm probably just angry about something totally unrelated to the game.

Kue I don't want to sit on the backburner and leave "he's probably Town and he's harmless" while we go and lynch all the Townies and whoever his scumpartner is NKs them. It's painful because the read is inactive-null, not even a regular null, because he won't post, just gets pissy that he was voted for. Either way it's irrelevant unless he comes back.

Why do you think the kill was the result of scum finding that breadcrumb? Like you said, it's easy to find if you know what you're looking for, but other than that?
I think it's safer to say that sikon got killed because of the way he showed robustness in his argumentations.

Yeah I'm doubting anybody saw the generic phrase and said "we must be in a Tracker setup NK him!" He was a mostly Town-read player with several accusations out, I'd be more worried about that than whether somebody rand ctrl+f "track" on every player for a crumb.

[Lynx_Shine]

Forgot I did homework to free up time for this game

I used it to catch up on some shows sorry

. I'll have to be here more often (and reorganize priorities) with that last prod.

I guess I better also give some reasons for doing that (besides wanting to rage at shit), as I'm not entirely sure Jason is scum or not, but he's just provoking me into doing that by not going into more details of which parts of Grimm's confirmation bias case he is actually sheeping.

You just voted someone based on emotion rather than an actual reason, highly OMGUS. "I'm voting him because he keeps accusing me."

people like Trollie fluffing a majority of the time

I'd say Trollie is basically the exact opposite of fluffing, most of his posts are so to the point they have almost negative content.

You see? That right there is Town frustration. Don't lynch him

Except scum is more likely to OMGUS like that usually. Town knows they're town, Scum wants desperately to appear Town and gets upset and ragey because it doesn't work.

I think you're wrong about cheery.

I think you're wrong about cheery.

Compelling arguments ft. TheIrishPope

Seems Towner than Kue at least though, not that that's hard.

[Lynx_Shine]

Compelling arguments ft.

ISO me. I'm not repeating myself.

No that was only against TIP basically quoting you in an argument, when I know very little about why he finds Cheery scum. I have no issues with your quote at all and I'd be surprised if you restated your stance instead of expecting me to read for myself.

[Lynx_Shine]

OMGUS is a nulltell. Scum gets angry and ragey; Town gets upset and heartbroken and sad.

Missed this actually whoops. His posts seem pretty angry to me though? Capslock and swearing isn't usually a sign of sad, it's rage.

[Lynx_Shine]

Nooo he ain't scum

TIP = Trollie alt or is this just another person entirely? Is worse than Trollie though he had some logic (if unexplained sometimes).

Please unvote.

Polite though.

Enlighten me, Sensei.

Could just...read the thread this time.

So the wagon just developed on its own? You started the wagon, ffery. You are to blame. You poked Cheery into L-1.
You poked Cheery with your stick, ffery.

And your first few lines are part of my suspicion exactly. Why would they follow a scumread on whom they had "pages worth of walls"?

Grimgroove didn't only say CD was scum, he called out ffery and CD as scumbuddies. Ffery put up a defense, it moved to CD. If you won't answer based on your theory "why would other people do that?" then how do you expect her to answer "why would other people do that?" completely unwarranted?

It would be more emotional (not ragey as it is now) and begging. He would plea for everyone's forgiveness and would actually try to keep the spotlight off of himself.

Didn't you just like a few posts ago say he's not ragey at all and now you're saying he'd pull serious AtE if he were Scum? I'm calling this newbtown (also lazytown) because you sound like a terrible fucking Scum player if your strategy is desperate apologetic AtE if you're voted for.

[Lynx_Shine]

Yo ffery or one of the SEs I know I'm supposed to call intent to hammer but do I have to bold it like a vote or is it just a formality thing? Because calling intent to hammer Cheery at this point unless anyone objects.

We have a few days left but the thread's gone almost nowhere (unless someone has something else to bring up before an early end?) and posts at this point are going to reach "post so I don't get prodded" because apparently we've hit the peak of information. Cheery at this point reads Scum to me for one major reason, apparent motivation. He's been at L-1 for a while now and nothing has happened.

Town before lynch: knows they're a mislynch but wants to get all of their reads out so you won't mislynch next Day. May point out suspects and reasons (such as bauss did) because that's helpful. Presents cases and convinces people to abandon the wagon because someone is scummier for a

real reason

.

Scum before lynch: knows the Town is right and has to divert the wagon or cause confusion if they can. Often doesn't have a case because they know the opposing player is Townie. Example, "Jason didn't answer my questions vote him not me." If not answering questions is as hard of a scumtell as you want us to believe, the setup is broken because there are more Scum than Town.

[Lynx_Shine]

Town knows

they're

a mislynch. Meaning if a Townie is about to be lynched, they know they're Townie and there is a better lynch target out there.

[Lynx_Shine]

I fail to see why I wouldn't have pointed it out when I'm saying that's exactly what Cheery

isn't

doing right now.

Unless you've got some other implication there, or a better way to say "Cheery isn't being Town" than saying "this is why Cheery isn't being Town."

[Lynx_Shine]

This may be a site meta thing. Where I've played if you're going to hammer more than a day or two early, you put it out there and make sure nobody else has something to say. Is that not a thing here either? Because that sounds pretty drastic and I'd rather hear from at least one other person that it's common to announce intent to hammer and then only hammer 15 minutes later after one person's input. Why even announce in that case.

[Lynx_Shine]

For the same reason I'm in a newbie game in the first place when it should be clear I play above a newbie level. In other game I skimmed I saw clear "calling intent to hammer." I saw nobody else claim that, I'm just here making sure I've got this right as my first game on this site, not screwing up some post thing.

At this point it looks like you're pushing me to hammer, and speaking for everybody else. Do you know something I don't? Because if you're looking for a hammer right now, you could just as easily switch your vote from ffery to Cheery. I'm not sure what your intention is here. If nobody has any objections otherwise, I will hammer before I have to leave the computer because there's little point doing it immediately when I should have a couple hours free here.

[Lynx_Shine]

Why is it noteworthy or "interesting" that I tell you I'm not a complete newbie? That sound be more than obvious considering I came in here actually playing and not stumbling around. I've played on and off for a few years in the Off Topic/Forum Games section of a Pokemon site, I should know what I'm doing after that much experience. I'm here because there's only about 20 players there making a very stale and rather painful meta. What I'm defending here isn't my actions, it's my ability to play regardless of the foreign site-exclusive slang which you seemed to have called into question.

If you're going to push "why haven't you done this?" when I already told why I haven't done it, it looks like you're pushing the issue. Which is why I brought up that you could have hammered. There's a very simple reason to not want to hammer, because if something happens, it's on the person who hammered (see cAPS's accidental early hammer of bauss Day 1). That's why it could be beneficial for you if I hammer. If I have the ability to hold off for a little while and let anybody else come in if they come online in that time, is there any reason I wouldn't?

I'm actually confused here because why wouldn't I give that courtesy if I'm able to sit around and wait? We're hardly pressed for time.

[Lynx_Shine]

No objections, I was going to myself within the hour. I'm just gonna go with yours and ffery's posts over TIP on the intent to hammer questions. If that's how he plays I'm hardly going to count him as a credible source on play differences here.

[Lynx_Shine]

Trollie you taking over the "wait and hammer when can't be online anymore" with your intent or just hammering here? I was planning on right now (midnight my time) but you're here. I'll hammer if no response soon but it's on you if you wanna keep it up.

I haven't even seen a Cheery claim so I doubt we're getting anything else out of him at this point.

[Lynx_Shine]

I've got to leave for the night anyways, I'm leaving it here. See if Cheery posts a claim before getting prodded, it's been two days now I think. We've got a week according to the last VC so there's time to wait for him to come back.

[Lynx_Shine]

Lynx_Shine thinks I'm scum because I asked her some questions. Interesting.

Show me where I said you were scum. Ffery sent some accusations over a previous game. I find you frustrating and fairly annoying so far but on a game level I'm betting you're Town. Personal differences aside, whether or not we're going to get along has nothing to do with my reading you.

Two things bother me a little about it. The longer the day continues the more associative tells will potentially make it into the thread. If he's scum, I think closing this day out would make sense, and delaying is not optimal scum play unless he thinks the wagon could shift again. I can also see the stubborn insistence that jason answer his question coming from a town perspective.

He's been trying to flip the wagon onto Jason for awhile, I read this as Scum picking one person to try to sacrifice to buy themselves a day (fairly common where I came from, became a reliable scumtell). Up until recently, it was primarily anti-Jason and accusations of sheeping grimgroove. He hasn't responded to many things until several others claimed ready to hammer, and the game was basically coasting before that. "I won't respond because I just won't" is working well as a way to drag out the Day; until a few days ago, it was primarily a back and forth of "Cheery answer" "no you answer" so there was no real Town discussion to benefit from.

[Lynx_Shine]

I agree with ffery, let's get this moving to Day 3. Called intent, no claim or other viable suspects, so we're at an impasse until something happens.

VOTE: CheeryDog

[Lynx_Shine]

After the flip I was thinking you and one of {trollie, TiP}. Lynx's later day 2 posts felt more townish to me, but she really doesn't put much of herself into what she writes. It's very dry and analytical.

To be fair I always sound like that online and irl, with maybe two or three exceptions. Not so much a game-related move as "I don't want to make an ass of myself by saying something dumb."

I do have a question though. Not accusationally asking why grim was killed after he put up a case against you, that's not even a question that can be answered. But if you aren't scum, do you have a defense or idea on why he was killed?

The same question goes to TheIrishPope, who was convinced of Cheery's Town card without a spoken reason.

[Lynx_Shine]

Defense is not the word for it. I think of it as scenario-exploration. His kill points to me, and I'm already the most likely lynch today. I expected him to be dead unless he was protected or bullet-proof. He played such a ballsy Day 2 and I thought it might be because he was bullet-proof. If I were scum, however attractive getting rid of him might be to scum-me, I would have argued that possibility and suggested another target.

Whatever you wanna call it, I went with defense since as of yesterday, you were the second-most-likely lynch. But yeah looking at his death brings the WIFOM of whether or not to look at his suspects. Either way he was pretty Town and arguably the most active scumhunter.

@Lynx_Shine, you don't want to make an ass of yourself, but you just did. How is Town supposed to answer a question like that?

Oh man some teenager on the internet says my typing is ineffective. Guess I better rethink my life. I just got called a name

on the internet

life over 0/10 would not play again.

But you can count this as an effective vote against you, let's not get into a quicklynch scenario if you're just a moron who can't read a question. I'd be far more worried about that question if I was Scum than if I was Town. Ffery managed it, but lemme dumb it down without the polite side-stepping of the accusation: "Why do you think grimgroove was killed?"

I asked ffery this because she's the most obvious suspect, but there's enough WIFOM there that I'm not going to throw an accusation that I'm not willing to take back. And I asked you because I figure if you were Scum, you were the most likely to slip on a motivation-based question.

Okay, just checking.
But it does mean something.

I'd like to know what it actually means. Because are you honestly saying you've never been in a game where a Townie wasn't on two or more mislynches? I would've voted bauss if I wasn't VLA and he was close to hammer (after his comment that we should lynch ffery because she's more experienced), that would have put me on both wagons. Trollie was also going to hammer Cheery, that would have put him on both wagons and me on neither. You're also missing something very important.

likeabauss (5) Cheery Dog, JasonWazza, sikon327, TheTrollie,

cAPSLOCK

Cheery Dog - 4 - fferyllt,

Grimgroove

, JasonWazza, Lynx_Shine

By replacement, grimgroove was on both wagons and he was flipped Town.

If you're going to push a false case, at least find something credible.

[Lynx_Shine]

VOTE: TheIrishPope

Thanks ffery and Jason, you've been a great help

I'm gonna disappear to go to class now (it starts in about five minutes glad I checked this)

[Lynx_Shine]

Yeah I think this is worth risking phone-posting from the classroom.

You'd call yourself smart, right? You're a big boy so you can figure it out. Just like the rest of the thread.

[Lynx_Shine]

To be entirely honest now that it's safe to say this, I'm way happier with my scum games than my town games for the most part. Special thanks to Jason for wanting to go after grimgroove when I was too nervous the kill wouldn't go through. But this was loads of fun while it lasted.

Sorry for some of the inactivity though, it wasn't related to my alignment. Stuff like "got a new kitten who was a week from death" and "anemic fainting." Would have come off as AtE and I took the prod over the possible lynch.

[Lynx_Shine]

Cabd's saying shady things. I'm just opportunistic and took what was there, I don't need his advice to play. But yes that's my boyfriend, we've been together three years so I'm not that surprised we play similarly.

Anyone know who/what the remaining PR was? My guess is it narrows down to Trollie (ffery looks VT). That mod-released info or does the player come out, how's that work here?

[Lynx_Shine]

QT is cool to go out, though there's not much. Thanks for all the nice things said though guys, I'm here just being a blob.

Lynx nice game, but don't be afraid to place a likely doc protected kill, you don't lose anything and you learn there is a doc.

One major thing:

To be entirely honest now that it's safe to say this, I'm way happier with my scum games than my town games for the most part.

If something like this is ever true, take a page out of one book and put it in the other.

Move some of your scum play to your town play, cause obviously it works

One of my first scum games, the Doctor hit all of our kills. Flawlessly. I've been paranoid ever since. But I've gotten better as a Townie (especially in the late game). My biggest issue as a Townie is that as Scum, I can usually set people up. As Town, I find too many Scum suspects and don't know what to do because I'm not trying to set them up, I'm trying to find what's a bad play or coincidence. But that's why I'm here.

Offsite, I was early

always

NK'd within the first three days because they knew I'd find them eventually, and as Scum, if we were more than four or five Days in and I was alive, I was

always

lynched because that was my "scumtell." And always while I was at school or asleep (it was a tight-knit community who didn't want me yelling at them) so I couldn't defend. Hell one game, I replaced in and was actually too busy to post even once during that Day, and I was almost NK'd just because I'm me. It didn't leave much room for improvement.

On the Cheery lynch, I'm a little surprised that went through. If the thread didn't go stale I was sure it was going to go somewhere else (most likely at Jason) for the tunneling and lack of answers on both ends. That one I just went with, I was heading for ffery from Day 1 trying to get the IC off ASAP, thought we'd have her Day 2 from grimgroove's case since Cheery wasn't going anywhere. Decided it was safer to go for the early hammer eventually.