Newbie 1390 -- Game Over

[JasonWazza]

/confirm

Be fun seeing IC goodmorning for once

[JasonWazza]

That's 7

VOTE: Goodmorning

Cause a cat is never good in the morning.

[JasonWazza]

Oh, and the rest of you newbies. One thing that was in the links but I feel it's wise to re-iterate. Never EVER EVER self-hammer. No matter how much you want to "show us all" it's against your win condition. It has a few niche valuable uses as scum, but if you do it as town, you're essentially claiming scum.

tbh, it has no benefit for scum either, it's just stupid.

That being said, semi-serious vote.

UNVOTE: TheGarantula
VOTE: Derivan

Actually scum have *Slight* benefit out of it, if a scum thinks there lynch is 100% and is basically confirmed scum, selfhammering can easily stop discussion on the town, especially when more conversation is needed.

[JasonWazza]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=425

That's an amazing example of it happening, read the game day, it's only 14 posts long and shows how a quickhammer can extremely hinder town.

[JasonWazza]

Be fun seeing IC goodmorning for once

Not too different from regular goodmorning, I should imagine.

VOTE: Goodmorning

Cause a cat is never good in the morning.

You can say that again, one of mine woke me up by stepping on my face.

But WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH ME, HUH?

Vote: Jason

I'm Obsessed with Nacho as well, don't feel special <3

But my vote is now semi-serious.

[JasonWazza]

I suppose you'll have to wait until they show up, now won't you?

All in good time, I assure you.

If it's all in good time, hence your waiting for some shit post to come, hence you are banking on it being an activity tell and them flailing?

UNVOTE: goodmorning
VOTE: Cabd

For trying to make your "tell's" seem like more then they are.

And making it look like your gonna use posts after the person confirms to call them scum.

[JasonWazza]

So wait your reason for voting me is because........ i voted someone who you have a problem with as well?

What is your reason?

[JasonWazza]

Only night

[JasonWazza]

Only night

Thought so, thanks.

So does that means the mafia know the other one is and has to attempt to guess what the other is planning? or is it blind for the first day and they have to guess who the other mafia is by telling if they are scummy enough and then work towards getting heat off their backs?

Mafia know each other as soon as they get the PM

They can talk pre-game and each night.

[JasonWazza]

So i'm scum because i don't believe the people who posted most are necessarily town?

Or I am scum for voting on 2 people?

[JasonWazza]

In other news, I have a light Townread on Garantula.

Why is it you are giving him a town read for mentioning the thing when i mentioned it like 6 posts before hand?

[JasonWazza]

TL;DR
I think:
1. Wazza and Fegelein are scummy for voting the more experienced players first on shaky grounds. (as Garantula stated)
2. Cabd made a scummy

move

by claiming the MOD gave him information. Either that or it was a joke as Goodmorning pointed out.

Need more contributions at this point. @Darq, bestwillcui... Bueller, Bueller? @Guyett, why no vote? @The Garantula, do you not agree with my logic regarding Wazza, Fegelein?

RVS involves voting on shaky grounds.

And me voting Cabd is based on the same logic your using.

SO HOW THE FUCK AM I SCUM AGAIN?

[JasonWazza]

SO HOW THE FUCK AM I SCUM AGAIN?

Getting defensive and not actively scumhunting, check. Why so mad? My logic on voting for you is based on your shaky grounds BW vote swap, not based on a joke you made. I already explained that I thought the joke was a scummy move, but not enough so to warrant a vote. You still haven't explained why you think Cabd was not making a joke, tell us more.

Who said i thought he wasn't making a joke?

Also i am actively scumhunting so that is a misrep, i think your scum right now because your just making shit up as you go

[JasonWazza]

I'd vote him but i am wondering if it's stupidity and not reading or being scum.

Where as Cabd seems more scummy then anything else.

[JasonWazza]

JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan

Check my meta i tend to get pissed at people who make shit up

Seriously he's making shit out of nothing.

If you find me defensive and not just annoyed at people making shit up to call me scummy then your stupid.

Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.

So you think his logic is alright, BUT you don't agree with it?

that doesn't make sense.

TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.

This is crap, he hasn't said anything that isn't been parroted from someone else.

[JasonWazza]

Reason the above should never give a town read:

Mafia have no reason to give people a town read (unless they plan to kill them) because it lowers the amount of people in their lynch pool.

A mass town read is a bad thing for the Mafia.

Also "not done anything particularly scummy yet" is not a reason to town read, that is a null read.

Most of you seen to be voting Cabd over his "reaction test" even though Fegelein also claims to have placed a semi-serous vote for the same reason and isn't taking any heat. Why the discrepancy?

Simple there's a difference between what Fegelein did and what Cabd did, bonus points if you can tell me the difference yourself.

So you think his logic is alright, BUT you don't agree with it?

that doesn't make sense.

There's a certain amount of opinion that goes into interpretive logic. I find it a sensible enough proposition.

I don't think if you can't agree with the logic that you should think the logic is "alright"

[JasonWazza]

If it's not an alignment tell then your logic isn't "alright" and you need to keep trying.

Though i get the point and will concede that one.

Where did Cabd go, he was here earlier he just never posted content

[JasonWazza]

JS, Early suggests not set in stone, and somewhat weak, but I still have you as an early Town read Guyett.

Also, gm, can you explain your vote on me?

What is the first line of this post even refering to?

[JasonWazza]

Ah right.

Maybe quote that bit with the post next time?

[JasonWazza]

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?

Just a hint, this is the very definition of WIFOM

"Why would i do x if i am scum?"

To say that exact fucking line?

[JasonWazza]

Why not?

They can say exactly what you said?

I'm just saying that saying "i wouldn't do that as scum" is pure WIFOM because we don't know your alignment.

[JasonWazza]

Hence why i didn't call it scummy Fege.

[JasonWazza]

They both posted their explanations ~24 hours after asking us to wait. The differences are that Derivan actually responded to Fegelein's vote and more people posted about Cabd's within that time span. However, I don't think that either of those things would indicated scumminess on Cabd's part. What is it you think I'm missing? No one really seems to be pushing this wagon anymore so I'm willing to let it go; I still would just like to know.

*sigh* and i had high hopes of you noticing it.

I suppose you'll have to wait until they show up, now won't you?

All in good time, I assure you.

This is setting up for more then this is

That being said, semi-serious vote.

I'll explain why it was a semi-serious vote later.

Now the first reads as more

"Once he comes in and posts i will have a reason to keep my vote on him"

The second read as more

"Pressure vote"

One is scummy, the other isn't.

Once NS fixes up Derivan's post to actually make sense i might be able to actually read it properly.

but i did notice this

@JW
I did check your meta and you tend to be more of a douche when you are town and are generally play more reserved when you are mafia. Based on this I am leaning more town on you. What is keeping you pretty low on that list is the fact that you haven't been scum hunting. Before I called you out on it you had asked questions of two people. Me and GM.

But i have been scumhunting, before you called me out on it, your just a bit of a tool and can't admit that.

In fact post 53 (which is 5 posts before yours) is the start of my major scumhunting.

What you fail to grasp is this, SCUMHUNTING =/= ASKING QUESTIONS

Though PART of scumhunting is asking questions, a lot more of it, is using a vote as pressure to get tells as to whether or not someone is scum.

Also i am not "more of a douche" as town, i am more aggressive, there's a fuck ton of difference.

P-Edit: The preview button is there for a reason guys, fucking use it.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: bestwillcui
FoS: Cabd

the "it was a reaction test" line is old.

[JasonWazza]

OK, so now you vote me for reaction testing.


JasonWuzza - An interesting playing style, gets mad a lot. I don't know why you are voting me for saying that I was reaction testing, possibly a bandwagon, but I'm not sure. Leaning scum

This isn't a reaction test, don't down play my vote.

Also bad reasoning to call me scum BASED on downplaying and misreping my vote.

MY VOTE IS EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

[JasonWazza]

i voted him because "it's a reaction test" is scum going "shit i fucked up, how do i back pedal without looking scummy"

The fact that he tried to down play my very serious vote makes me think he is scum as well, town would ask why, scum would want the vote to mean as little as possible.

[JasonWazza]

I don't think Guyett claimed personally, he is refering to not being useful as a player in my mind, not as a role.

Also i think both bestwillcui and Cabd are scummy, just best more so then Cabd at this point.

[JasonWazza]

That's another reason why Cabd can be scum now.

Cause that's like the worst reason to call someone scum ever.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah I haven't role claimed yet?!? Jason is on the money there.

I still have Cabd down as scummy
Here's a list of the players in order of scummyness reads so far

bestwillcui - so far comes off as the scummyiest one due to the posts over the last 24 hrs or so
Cabd - I am still very suspicipus of Cabd
Derivan - getting a slight scum read here
Darq - null read due to inactivity, however if the player has been lurking they could easily be scumming
Fegelein - slight town read, on SM's radar which is interesting though
TheGarantula - medium town read. more logical posting and I can see why he has targeted me. all the wifom was entirely accidental and could look pretty bad lol
JasonWazza - town read so far. experienced player who is playing slightly abrasively and calling out people on tells. this activity seems similar to styles in old games of his
goodmorning - town read for reasons already stated by me and garantula.

however from experience in games from elsewhere I think only 1 of the scum will come from the top of that list. the other will probably be in the bottom 4, possibly due to experience at hiding scum tells or just skill at hiding them.

So your basically saying "i'm not backing myself because scum might be experienced"?

Why not actually focus on the town reads to make them a "your town regardless of experience"

Also, i'm gonna question the GM read once more, how is she town for questioning someone's town read?

[JasonWazza]

I also find it interesting that you say GM is town based off what TheGarantula said when this comes out of his read post.

My read on goodmorning is

null

at worst. The non-IC content he has provided has been good, however due to his V/LA and IC-duty it isn't abundant so it's hard to get a read.

[JasonWazza]

I believe JasonWuzza may be scum for trying to jump on a bandwagon.

This is a bad reason.

Bandwagons happen because someone is scummy, meaning that it's not a scummy thing to "jump a bandwagon"

However WHICH BANDWAGON DO YOU THINK I'M JUMPING?

Be more accurate when you accuse someone of something.

[JasonWazza]

@Jason how do I see meta's?

For me my Meta is on my wiki (going from when i was a little noob like you guys to more recent games.) so use the little wiki bottom on the bottom left of everyone of my posts.

If someone doesn't have a wiki when you push that button, then (a more complicated way is to) click the username, choose Search Topics and go check their games.

[JasonWazza]

TOWN
Garantula
Guy
Jason
NULL
Darq
best
Deri

NULL

Cabd
Feg

Gonna assume that the Second Null is a typo.

Also why is best null rather then scum?

[JasonWazza]

FUCKING USE PREVIEW IT'S NOT THAT HARD

Also, i'm gonna question the GM read once more, how is she town for questioning someone's town read?

Well I don't think scum would argue with someone calling them town, though I was mainly just taking note of it.

*bzzt* maybe read context instead of assuming (not to mention that is WIFOMy as fuck).

GM questioned Fege for townreading Guyett

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

So if Guyett can please tell me why that makes GM town

[JasonWazza]

Oh i was meaning Guyetts reasoning for Town Reading GM

Also GM isn't dumb scum, questioning town reads on yourself is easy cheap town points.

[JasonWazza]

When you've said fuck all how else are people to find you as scum?

Seriously, your lurking and being scummy, don't pretend your town.

You have no REAL reads, your trying to OMGUS me, and YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A VOTE DOWN.

[JasonWazza]

Because Darq isn't a lurking Scum Fuck

He is just plain lurking.

[JasonWazza]

Not until intent to hammer.

[JasonWazza]

*tumbleweed*

GM where's that read's list at?

Cabd just clearly can't name tells properly.

[JasonWazza]

Cabd, if you don't want to be lynched you'll probably want to make a coherent and convincing case on someone else.

Or you know, quit posting fluff.

[JasonWazza]

goodmorning - Town read, pretty helpful scum-hunting and all.

goodmorning: I am getting a town read, null at worst. This is because of the scumhunting done and that it looks genuine.

Someone is backpedaling onto the same read as someone who is being seen as town.

Not to mention that he is still scummy as fuck.

Someone hammer this scum already?

[JasonWazza]

Actually this will be a post where i give the general statements he uses.

Here are my current reads:

JasonWuzza: he is probably town. (reason why i wouldn't be town which is bogus)

Darq's replacement rgxv or something: No read.

goodmorning: town read, null at worst.

Fegelein: Same as what I said about goodmorning, but at a little lesser degree.

Derivan: little scummy and lurking quite a bit.

Guyett: Null

Cabd: he does look a little scummy

TheGarantula: plays like pro-town.

He calls 2 people scummy but says he won't vote because they aren't "THAT" scummy.

And the rest he tries to give a reason why they are NULL instead of TOWN, even when he gives logic that would make them town.

Guess who doesn't have town reads?

Guess who wouldn't want to vote?

Answer to both is SCUM

[JasonWazza]

Fucking Crash killed a bunch of my posts, all over.

@Cabd, pointing out that Town Slip is scummy as fuck.

@Everyone not voting best: Why do you think best is newb town over newb scum with the actions he is taking.

@Best: there is no reason to crumb. Plain and simply.

[JasonWazza]

@JasonWuzza

Why do you say that there's no reason to crumb?

Because, there is no reason to crumb as a PR right now.

Day 1, you have no extra info, so there is no need for a crumb, and a crumb can just as easily let scum know who you are.

If you crumb it's basically "Hey scum come kill me"

[JasonWazza]

* Doctor.

Also that is a stupid thought and i will point out why

Out of the 6 possible setups there are only

2

with doctors.

1. Mafia Roleblocker, Town Cop, Town Doctor
2. Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor

Case 1. your a cop, and there is 50% you get doctor protect, however your also possibly going to get roleblocked OR the doctor can get roleblocked, so no use in crumbing.

Case 2. your a tracker, there is a 50% chance there is no doctor.

[JasonWazza]

Note to self: check guys read post at home.

This is here as a reminder for myself.

[JasonWazza]

Post 89:
Darq-Light Scumread
Best- Lots of stuff said about him, but no actual read given
Derivan- Not a read either, just fluff
Garg- Town read
Jason- No actual read given
Cabd- “a bit of a Scumread”
Reg- No actual read other than “posts make sense”
Goodmorning- unexplained townread

This is the reason i left the note is this.

Darq - Hasn't really posted too much but has been online and seems to be lurking. I find this activity suspicious. I'd watch out for the quiet ones who sit back and let the others who may actually be townies tie themselves in knots heaping suspicions on themselves.
bestwillcui - Another lurker. I suspect one of the mafia will be one of our lurkers and another will probably be either the most active or the second most active poster who spends their rime dodging suspicion and my bus their partner as a technique to hide his/her scummyness.
Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.
TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.
JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan
Cabd - Active until people called him up on his 'joke' and then disappeared for a few hours to think things over? Tbh I'm getting a bit of a scum read here. I agree with the bussing comment that someone made.
Fegelein - semi experienced player and your later non burnout related posts make sense.
goodmorning - getting a strong town read of goodmorning

Now if you read the reads post and compare it to what Cabd gives you'll find a few problems.

As much as the Best read is "Fluff" it's an implied light scum read, but nice avoiding that.

Derivan seems like more of a light town read that's implied.

My read, seems like an implied light scum read

I think Cabd is trying to make it seem like Guy's scummy when his not.

UNVOTE: Bestwillcui
VOTE: Cabd

[JasonWazza]

@JasonWazza: What made you give up on the bestwillcui wagon? He hasn't done much of anything to redeem himself. Furthermore, Cabd has already stated his plans to post ISO's, so what is the added pressure hoping to accomplish in the meantime?

Did you not read my post?

Best is still scummy, but Cabd's more scummy, is it really that hard a concept to grasp?

[JasonWazza]

Hey Grantula, why not let Cabd defend rather then you defending him.

Also not pointing out the OBVIOUSLY implied reads, is actually extremely scummy, yes they were "fluffy" but he was EXPLAINING HIS READS.

[JasonWazza]

I think Best is a lot smarter than he is letting on, he is playing a newb game making it look town.

Your gonna have to explain the scum motivation for that.

If he's not a newb, then playing a "newb" isn't going to help him.

9 times out of 10 it's a newb being lynched (note; This is not an actual statistic)

Also not pointing out the OBVIOUSLY implied reads, is actually extremely scummy, yes they were "fluffy" but he was EXPLAINING HIS READS.

Those explanations were about as clear as mud and to say their obvious? You're the one reaching here and trying real hard to make something out of this to pin on Cabd. TheGarantula makes some good points also, that was a pretty quick jump onto the Cabd bandwagon, I hope you didn't get whiplash. Do explain cause you're looking scummy now.

OK then, well they were obvious to me, yeah he doesn't say specific reads, but it's really not hard to read between the lines and draw the conclusions i did.

Also why is it i can't think both are scummy?

[JasonWazza]

Yet Cabd keeps holding back on these ISO's

[JasonWazza]

You've had the time to do this, and you don't have fucking excuses at this point Cabd.

[JasonWazza]

OK if your gonna meta because of that vengeball i will give you another game that basically fucks that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25051

This game i lurk hard as town because the game is just meh to read

Also you've had the time TO DO ALL OF THEM

[JasonWazza]

Ergh, deadline so close, Deri sadly seems like a shit wagon.

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: bestwilcui

fuck this town for making me do that.

[JasonWazza]

Fucking hell, Deri claim

Just under 4 hours.

P-Edit: Not sure we can lynch Best at this point which sucks.

[JasonWazza]

For everyone's information, i will be able to phone post before deadline, i even have an alarm set.

No need to rush this.

[JasonWazza]

Hi Klick.

VOTE: Guyett

I still don't believe Derivan but this can't be let go.

[JasonWazza]

jason you promised you'd be stalking the thread get in here.

btw, i said i'd use my phone to vote if i needed to, i didn't expect the massive posting (or the hammer)

[JasonWazza]

Again read what he said Guyett.

All replacements would have got the same treatment, you trying to treat it as scum is bad.

Not to mention that hammer from yesterday.

[JasonWazza]

Because it is WIFOMy?

It means you can look back, design a new reads list and be

Less

suspected because of it (as your scum reads flipped town)

[JasonWazza]

I don't think Deri is confirmed town

[JasonWazza]

I already have expressed my reservations on best: I think he is erratic newbTown. PLUS he kinda-sorta PR slipped a while back. Are we going to ignore that?

Rhyx this is one of GM's post calling Best a PR.

not pushing it,
Also I can assure you I was drunk. I had my graduation and I was drinking from 11am until 3am, I had the worst hangover I've ever had... it lasted 3 days

Least you didn't get a tramp stamp of anything like that.

[JasonWazza]

I also think that it is possible that since she knew

best

was going to flip town and she recognized that he likely would be wagoned she made a case for him being town so she would earn town-points. This would explain why why she is blatantly pointed that out in her first two day 2 posts instead of scumhunting. Also I think it is possible that her initial vote and case against Feg was a way to distance her from her scum partner.

Question, is it not possible she is town make a case as to why best was town?

Town also don't want town lynched

Jason disagreed that the logic was there. The logic was there. Doesn't automatically make you Town. I'd also like you to demonstrate where I said that was why I was voting you.

(I still think that was the scummiest PR slip ever)

Guyett's matyr 'deserved to be lynched, please lynch me' shtick is kind of bugging me.

What I find strange is that he says to policy lynch him multiple times but then switches to "jk plz don't" once people express suspicion of him.

Its more a case of me saying lynch me because I f*cked up as a townie when drunk....but I could well have cost town the game with that stupid hammer.
I'm saying that I would understand if you lynched me... hell I'd lynch me for that. But if you do lynch me it'll be almost impossible for town to win.
I've said it already, I think we are dealing with experienced scum... they know I've played the WIFOM card already so they lynched my main scum target :shrug:

So we can lynch you and it'll be almost impossible for town to win?

Can you stop calling yourself town and ACT TOWN INSTEAD?

[JasonWazza]

Deri, i haven't posted a single reads list, does that make me scum?

[JasonWazza]

@Cabd, pointing out that Town Slip is scummy as fuck.

is off considering you posted this

Mafia have no reason to give people a town read (unless they plan to kill them) because it lowers the amount of people in their lynch pool.

in post 101. contradicting much?

Clearly you weren't paying attention, i do believe said town slip, was a town PR slip and pointing that out IS scummy and nothing to do with town reading someone.

[JasonWazza]

Eh cabd posted this

Wait, what happened to the server thing?

Oh, and I asked, "Are we allowed to breadcrumb in this game?" or something along those lines.

TOWN
FUCKING
SLIP

So Jason I disagree with you here.. he pointed out that it was a town slip and you have decided to take it as a town PR slip.

Your being dense right?

READ THE FUCKING CONTEXT

READ IT PROPERLY

the "breadcrumb" part is a Town PR (/scum trying to fake claim) slip him pointing it out is scummy HE IS NOT TOWN READING HIM BECAUSE OF THIS POST.

But keep attacking me with this misrep.

[JasonWazza]

Mod: Can we get a Klick prod

I still think Guyett should be lynched so yeah.

[JasonWazza]

Is Klick going to be replaced?

Ergh

[JasonWazza]

KLICK GET YOUR ASS IN HERE I SEE YOU IN OTHER THREADS.

[JasonWazza]

Lol great, this game needs a klick.

FTFY

[JasonWazza]

Klick remains a better and more prod worthy player.....

[JasonWazza]

This has got to be the worst Counter Wagon i have ever seen.

Reasoning behind the wagon: Someone flaked losing us a fair amount of time, BUT THEY FLAKED REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT.

Whereas, Guyett has a real reason to be a wagon.

[JasonWazza]

Then case on Feg?

[JasonWazza]

This has got to be the worst Counter Wagon i have ever seen.

Reasoning behind the wagon: Someone flaked losing us a fair amount of time, BUT THEY FLAKED REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT.

Whereas, Guyett has a real reason to be a wagon.

@JW
Why do you think GM is not a good wagon?

LRN2READ CONTEXT

I was saying Klick is not a good wagon.

[JasonWazza]

I never said anything about the GM wagon, Let me go back and read cases and decide how i feel, i still think Guyett is optimal lynch today.

[JasonWazza]

Actually, Guyett is on that wagon, which makes me think GM's probably town.

Still gonna wait on the Guyett lynch, people should join this wagon, the Klick one is pathetic.

[JasonWazza]

Guyett i am NOT LETTING YOU LIVE AFTER THAT HAMMER

Think about it this way.

We let you live to LYLO and your the next lynch.

I'm not making a secondary guess until Klick gets replaced.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah who gets the feel of a Guyett/TheIrishPope scum team?

[JasonWazza]

You scum reading me because i think your scum there Guyett?

[JasonWazza]

I think your reason for it is convenient.

"I drunk Hammered"

Is a way for scum to get a reason to quickhammer with lesser suspicion in my mind.

Here's what i see Drunk scum doing

"holy fuck there's 2 wagons, i'm scum i better hammer the non PR claim now."

You know even a pissed person has a concept of time, you should have known that there was people posting.

[JasonWazza]

That's what i'm trying to get done.

[JasonWazza]

Don't Self Vote

Your rip info from your wagon.

[JasonWazza]

Your gonna have to case that one TIP

[JasonWazza]

Yes because that's useful to anyone guy, seriously we should be lynching guy.

[JasonWazza]

I shouldn't have to translate stuff, especially considering you's almost got modkilled.

[JasonWazza]

Again, not cleared, a doc has no reason to claim.

My read on Guyett is obvious, i'm not sure on the second yet.

[JasonWazza]

Doc can still pull a protect.

And a protect can mean a lot more then a 1-for-1

[JasonWazza]

Jason 2 thing;
Could you put your reasons for me being scum in one coherent post please. Preferably with something more than the drunk hammer.
Secondly if you get your lynch on me done what Will you do when i flip town? We'll be in lylo and you and gar Will likely be targeted.

Same questions for gar too while we're at it

a) in a bit, maybe.
b) IF you flip town, i will re-analyze with all the information, and probably wait a little for a doctor claim.

[JasonWazza]

Ryhx, tick the box that auto-logs you in, if it's a public computer just log off after (this keeps you from being logged off and even if a public computer works to not log you in automatically like it says)

@Goodmorning: You realize how stupid your being right?

Here's the possible PR setups GIVEN the now known Tracker;
Town 1-shot Bulletproof, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Tracker

Given this the Mafia is made up of 2 goons, meaning all possible setups are given here;
Mafia Goon, Town 1-shot Bulletproof, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie
Mafia Goon, Vanilla Townie, Town Jailkeeper

Given these 4 setups, what would you want in a fake claim?
Not be provable to be false, IF the situation occurs that you claimed in a good spot.
Force a PR to Counter Claim you in the case that you claim bad.

I would personally, Fake Claim a BP if i was scum for one good reason.
1/2 chance, that there's a tracker.
If i'm wrong in a claim, i pull out any of the following into claiming {Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper}

THERE IS NO ACTUAL LOSS GIVEN THE SCUMS KNOWLEDGE TO CLAIM A BULLETPROOF.

[JasonWazza]

I would personally, Fake Claim a BP if i was scum for one good reason.
1/2 chance, that there's a tracker.
If i'm wrong in a claim, i pull out any of the following into claiming {Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper}

THERE IS NO ACTUAL LOSS GIVEN THE SCUMS KNOWLEDGE TO CLAIM A BULLETPROOF.

JW your math here is atrocious. The setup is a 3x3 matrix which gives us 6 possible outcomes. I claimed BP prior to best being revealed as TT. Therefor:

The probability of successfully guessed the setup is less than 17%
The probability of successfully guessing a setup in which best flips TT is a little over 33%

For someone pushing a policy lynch after the "drunk" hammer this is a very interesting conclusion from you.

Now it would be an interesting play for the town doctor to claim BP after the TT or TJ flipped since it would dissuade the mafia from NK'ing.

Wrong

I am calling you scum, yes it's a 3x3 matrix BUT 2 setups have a Mafia Roleblocker, so we can rule them out as there is no possiblity of a Roleblocker in a Tracker setup.

So again my math is fine.

[JasonWazza]

You know all about that don't you Guyett

[JasonWazza]

Guyett, your trying to get someone to claim, THERE IS NO ACTUAL USE TO THE CLAIM AT THIS POINT

And furthermore, continually calling bullshit on his claim, makes it look like that person is a PR.

QUIT TRYING TO ROLEFISH OUT OUR DOCTOR/BULLETPROOF

[JasonWazza]

Sweet, thanks.

And furthermore, continually calling bullshit on his claim, makes it look like that person is a PR.

Wait, I don't get this. Makes who look like a PR? Guyett? TIP? Derivan?

But unless someone counter claims, Deri is believable. If someone counter-claims, well at this late stage I'll probably still believe Deri over a counter claimer. It would be some lucky odds for Deri to have guessed right.

^ROLEFUCKINGFISHING

Also 50% chance isn't bad odds.

[JasonWazza]

And even if there is a doctor in this game they could have counter claimed deri's claim and claimed bullet proof themselves FFS they would then likely be safe from the night kill as scum wouldnt want to wast the kill

Why not waste a kill.

Unless there are

2

No kills, Town don't get an extra lynch.

[JasonWazza]

1. From a numerical standpoint, it keeps the player #s lightly town-sided. I'm not really into this point but Jason can probably explain it to you; it's to do with the # of mislynches town gets.

I can fill this one then

Spoiler: Numbers and lots of them

Basically the game starts at;

7 V 2

As a Town V Scum Ratio.

This first example assumes no PR influence.

Day 1- Lynch- 6 V 2
Night 1- Kill- 5 V 2

Now for Day 2 i will do 2 different situations, one with a no lynch, and one with a lynch

Day 2- Lynch- 4 V 2
Night 2- Kill- 3 V 2 LYLO

Scenario 2 is a no Lynch

Day 2- No Lynch- 5 V 2
Night 2- Kill- 4 V 2 MYLO

MYLO basically means if we lynch wrong, we lose (because the Mafia then have a kill, and Mafia can then No Lynch to a win), and we are more likely to mislynch so the only LOGICAL thing to do if town has 1 to many for LYLO is to No Lynch.

Day 3- No Lynch- 4 V 2
Night 3- Kill- 3 V 2 LYLO

Now lets analyze these 2 situations

Lynching every day, gives us 2 mislynches, and gets us to day 2

No Lynching on Day 2, gives us

1

mislynch, and gets us to day 3

Another thing about the No Lynch scenario, is we've allowed Scum to come to a 3 V 1 Kill ratio, in which they killed 3 townies, which generally means 3 stronger townies and 1 weaker townie are dead.

In a Always Lynch Scenario it becomes a 2 V 2 Scenario meaning 2 weaker townies, and 2 stronger townies are dead, obviously this is the optimal situation (generally speaking.)

The MYLO situation is also why a 1-shot Bulletproof can't give an extra mislynch, this will be shown in the next example

Day 1- Lynch- 6 V 2
Night 1- No Kill due to PR- 6 V 2
Day 2- Lynch- 5 V 2

We then come to 2 situations

Night 2- No Kill due to PR- 5 V 2

In which we now have an extra Mislynch and

Night 2- Kill- 4 V 2

In which we have to No Lynch anyway.

That spoiler basically puts the numbers into a practical sense, and explains MYLO (sort of), and how much Certain PR's will be able to gain the town a mislynch.

[JasonWazza]

The Mislynch VS MYLO situation is something people look over a lot, so don't worry too much.

[JasonWazza]

TheGarantula is probably town.

I am town Doctor and i have been protecting TheGarantula the whole game.

VOTE: Derivan

[JasonWazza]

WAIT THAT WORKED, WITHOUT A NO LYNCH?

THE FUCK TOWN?

[JasonWazza]

Also GM your play style is inherently scummy, and I understand why ffery can't read you for shit.

I don't really know what people think is scummy about it, but there's got to be something because it keeps happening.

As soon as Deri got hammered I was like fuck, Jason is lying cause he would have claimed sooner but it was too late.

ryhx played quite well. I'd hate to get on the wrong side of him again.

Actually no, as a doctor i wouldn't have.

[JasonWazza]

Rhyx is easily the MVP, he wasn't even suspected so i was so happy gambiting the shit out of this game.

[JasonWazza]

read this carefully everyone

NEVER IN MYLO MAKE A LYNCH

I have convinced 2 different towns to do this.

[JasonWazza]

read this carefully everyone

NEVER IN MYLO MAKE A LYNCH

I have convinced 2 different towns to do this.

SO MUCH THIS.

Actually this was in both of your games wasn't it?

[JasonWazza]

As soon as Deri got hammered I was like fuck, Jason is lying cause he would have claimed sooner but it was too late.

Actually no, as a doctor i wouldn't have.

Seriously?

Yes seriously.

read this carefully everyone

NEVER IN MYLO MAKE A LYNCH

I have convinced 2 different towns to do this.

And again I register strong disagreement. Newbie 1351 was lost because they

didn't

lynch in MyLo.

Link then i'll analyze if your making stuff up

And guys i totally am a doctor

[JasonWazza]

Scum would look scummy for hammering a PR delibritely

[JasonWazza]

Depends on the situation.

Day 1, no lynch probably depending on the PR.
Day 2/3 Lynch the PR

You have to look at the possible reason why a no lynch wouldn't affect the game.

Jailkeeper has a chance of blocking a kill even when claimed, Whereas doctor and BP don't, any claim not of them doctor/BP should probably lead to a no lynch.

[JasonWazza]

What do you mean link? The game is a hundred something pages long. MyLo is somewhere around 90? 95?

The game itself is here.

No lynch was still the right move, whether or not you use the no lynch to it's full potential is another thing.

Reason i say no lynch is this game and another game i was in (and did the same fucking thing that fucked over the town <3)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24031

Basically, doctor was quickhammered by scum Day 2

Mafia partner of my lynched day 3, i no killed, claimed JK and got the claimed cop lynched.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah and everyone was agreed at the scum in MyLo here as well, same with my previous game.

Yes it gives a chance for the scum to re-direct, it also gives town a chance to re-think with less townies alive.

[JasonWazza]

Deriv was not conf-town and i hate that everyone said that.

My claim could have been very real, and his claim fake in an alternate universe, i honestly played as i would as a doctor.

[JasonWazza]

I made a detailed reason why BP is the safest fake claim.

Here's the possible PR setups GIVEN the now known Tracker;
Town 1-shot Bulletproof, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Tracker

Given this the Mafia is made up of 2 goons, meaning all possible setups are given here;
Mafia Goon, Town 1-shot Bulletproof, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Doctor, Town Tracker
Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie
Mafia Goon, Vanilla Townie, Town Jailkeeper

Given these 4 setups, what would you want in a fake claim?
Not be provable to be false, IF the situation occurs that you claimed in a good spot.
Force a PR to Counter Claim you in the case that you claim bad.

I would personally, Fake Claim a BP if i was scum for one good reason.
1/2 chance, that there's a tracker.
If i'm wrong in a claim, i pull out any of the following into claiming {Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper}

THERE IS NO ACTUAL LOSS GIVEN THE SCUMS KNOWLEDGE TO CLAIM A BULLETPROOF.

Never Ever fully believe any claim.