Newbie 1393 Game Over

[HopefullyCynical]

Yo DDP, loving that avatar of yours

Lets get some RQS going (Random Question Stage)

1)(To those who haven't stated so) What is your time zone?
2) Have you ever played Mafia before? If so, on what medium and how many games? (irl, another forum, etc)
3) Do you prefer to play as town or scum?
4) What would your feelings be on a no-lynch?

1) Pacific time zone!
2) I have never played Mafia on a forum before, just started playing some Werewolf recently. Only two or three games.
3) I like both, I think doing well as scum is much trickier but more rewarding.
4) I don't really like no-lynch, I feel like it's wasting a day phase. Even if we whiff a lynch we still get information.

I'm looking forward to playing with you guys! I see some bandwagons but I'm going to be monitoring the thread and will post later tonight.

[HopefullyCynical]

I had posted earlier, but it looks like it got ate in the site crash sorry guys.

I think that the exchange between notscience and Dessew comes mostly down to a misunderstanding in terminology, but I also think that Dessew backtracking looks pretty sketch. It may have been a slip of the tongue, but his word choice was very interesting to me.

In regards to activity correlating to alignment, just because someone posts frequently doesn't make them good or bad. In fact, someone who is town could post a lot of bad information and have that be potentially more dangerous to us in the long run.

There are rare occasions where no lynch is acceptable, but I feel 98% of the time no lynch is a very poor play. It's also a pretty basic ploy to get newer players to mess up.

[HopefullyCynical]

I am very new to forum posting stuff, so hopefully this turns out all right...

Vote: notscience

I agree he has been posting frequently while saying very little. For now, I am going to vote for him. I was just waiting to see what developed bandwagon-wise, etc.

DDP, can I get a clarification on a facet of your role as IC? If you die, are you no longer able to help the newbie players out?

I feel like those trying to bandwagon DDP have targeted him as an experienced player. Removing him under the guise of a bandwagon could be a convenient early play.

[HopefullyCynical]

I didn't see that as FuDuzn calling me out for not placing a vote, I saw it as asking who I planned on voting for. Early on in the game I said I wasn't going to vote until I had a clearer idea of who I wanted to vote for. I felt I answered him by casting a vote for you.

You started the wagon on Danny (as you stated in your post) and since he is an IC, with little to no other information to go on other than he is an experienced player, that is a pretty good play in my eyes. But it also shows experience or at least some game theory under your belt. If anything, being the first on the DDP wagon further highlights that. Knowing those things and then asking about a no lynch day 1, which is traditionally a bad play, and you have my suspicions.

What do you define as "getting involved in stuff?" I'd say FuDuzn was posting content for asking why I hadn't placed a vote yet, and I feel I have posted content by speculating that the bandwagon on DDP could be a ruse to off him. Dessew was trying to get the ball rolling. Smudger weighed in on your and Dessew's debate and accused him of backtracking. What do you define as active?

I wasn't cemented in my vote by any means, but seeing you lash out and retaliate by voting for me definitely makes me suspicious.

Also, sorry for the noob questions, but what is SE, RVS and omgus'ing? Thank you for the clarifications!

[HopefullyCynical]

What is the difference between agreeing with someone and sheeping? I am legitimately curious.

Dessew, I feel like I can't give you an accurate read because I don't really have a lot at the moment. I feel like a lot of us are reaching for any reason, be it bad or good, to be able to claim that so-and-so is town or this person is scum, etc. This is only Day 1, we don't have much of anything to go on. The only real information we will be able to obtain outside of an obvious scum slip up is from a lynch. That is why notscience asking about a no lynch makes him suspicious to me.

If you really want reads, I like Feel It and Z7.

[HopefullyCynical]

notscience, thank you very much for the explanation of the acronyms! I was trying to puzzle them out in my head but they weren't really making much sense. I do love me some Princess Bride

Why the question format? Why not just say something like "no lynch sucks, so lets toss that right out the window?" If they protest, cue discussion which enlightens them. If not, carry on as usual. It seemed like you were hinting for a no lynch with the way you worded it. Is EM another mafia site or something?

[HopefullyCynical]

We almost fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: Never go for a no lynch on the first day! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[HopefullyCynical]

Sorry I was unclear Smudger, I feel like they are both town at the moment.

[HopefullyCynical]

I only brought it up because many of the players were commenting that the more frequently you post or participate in discussions makes you more town. I just wanted to point that out is all.

Also notscience, in reviewing the posts I saw in your own answers to your questions you posted that you did not like a no lynch, so that is my bad on accusing you of going for the no lynch.

[HopefullyCynical]

To add on to my previous post, I agree Smudger. Scum have much more on the line when the post, so they need to consider that when they do post, and I definitely agree that their input will be more concise and they will post less. However, relying on generalities opens us up to mind games, since an experienced scumbag would see our discussion and post more frequently in an attempt to blend in.

Both of our lines of thought are valid, and it's up to us to figure out when the scumbags slip up.

[HopefullyCynical]

When your views align with mine you’re agreeing when they align with someone I disagree with you’re sheeping.

I like that definition a lot

I hope Z7 comes back in here soon, I'd like to see his response to the DDP vote.

[HopefullyCynical]

I suck at forums, this won't be the first time I mess that up it's quoted from DDP if it was unclear.

[HopefullyCynical]

How would you guys feel about lynching mvm? I don't think any of us have a read on him due to his inactivity. Even if he is a town, for the rvs it might do us good to lynch him simply because he isn't being very helpful or productive. I also am leaning towards scum on him.

Danny, can I get a little bit more on why you don't like Z7 other than he makes you feel uneasy? I know it's Day 1 so there I don't expect incredibly detailed answers, but your reasoning is a little vague.

Smudger, I echo Feel It's thoughts on your accusation. Why single him out for not contributing specifically? I feel that he has contributed a fair amount. And Smudger, when you say Z7 should be higher than me, do you mean he should be more towny or more scummy?

[HopefullyCynical]

Sorry, I didn't mean "single out" as in "pick him over others" I meant more like why attack his lack of contribution specifically?

[HopefullyCynical]

HC, why the need for an apology?

What are you asking about specifically? If you are referring to the no-lynch, I back tracked and saw that you posted that you didn't like no-lynch, and that was one of my main reasons for placing a vote on you. Having inserted foot into mouth, I apologized for accusing you of wanting the no-lynch.

I don't know what to say about DDDP, the way he tried to get votes to the Z7-wagon is funny but maybe it's not even worth noting.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fucked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?[/quote]

This is the best.

Unvote: notscience

Vote: mvmmafia

I agree with the consensus here, I really want some of the more passive players to actually start posting some content.

[HopefullyCynical]

Wow I am awful at quotes.

Also, Feel It's response "tfw no gf" is very curious, since not long before that he posted a fairly in-depth summary of the other players and followed it up with that. That's a very curious play to me, since he is on a lot of player's radars at the moment.

Dessew, I am trying to treat this like a dialogue. Often times I finish a post and then think of something else to say (or muck up a quote) and add it on. It's much more difficult doing that here because in person it would flow better.

[HopefullyCynical]

I know he said he was at L-2 but he was inactive before that. Also, is tfw no gf another acronym I don't know?

Dessew, thanks for the complement I appreciate it

[HopefullyCynical]

Z7, I think FuDuzn has posted more than mvm (which, granted, isn't very difficult). He's also been contributing before we really started looking at the inactives. Mvm is looking much more scum than Fu at the moment, at least for me.

Yeah, mafia really needs active contributors, one or two apathetic players really brings down the game for the rest of us.

[HopefullyCynical]

And thanks for clearing up the tf no gf acronym Z

[HopefullyCynical]

He's been fairly involved, made good posts and some interesting reads on people. Not 100% due to not voting for me, his biggest scumread.

This is actually a fairly good point in my opinion. I can understand wanting the lurkers to post more, but why would you not vote for the person you think is the scummiest?

FuDuzn, thank you for wanting to play the game and making good on your word.

[HopefullyCynical]

So regardless of deadline, if at any point we reach a majority vote on a player, that player is lynched? Or is it majority at deadline?

[HopefullyCynical]

I feel like MVM is a step or two behind our discussion whenever he posts. I realize he has catching up to do but it doesn't really seem to fit, it seems like he is trying to contribute but he is really just recycling what we have said already or his information is out of date.

sorry for the vla. I was on a business trip. Now I'm reading all to catch up.

but i agree with cynical that it's weird to see notscience asking people about the "no lynch" thing.

I agree that FuzzDn needs to post more. will vote him untill he comes up and gives us more content.

unvote

The no lynch thing with me and notscience was resolved several pages before he posted this, and it basically boiled down to a misinterpretation on my part. Why bring it up again? And FuDuzn gave us his promised post, and MVM hasn't unvoted him since then. Why?

VOTE: FuzzDN

gotta agree with fuzz that z7 isnt following his scummometer at 149.

What you guys think of Z7 ?

While it was true at this point that Z7 wasn't acting 100% on his alleged reads, by the time MVM posted this Z7 had already made a post (#166) in which he explained that MVM was now his number one scum read. MVM makes no attempt to address this at all. This does not sit well with me.

Since it is closer to deadline, I'd like to point out that DDP has been absent lately. He's been very passive thus far so I am not attempting to point this behavior out as especially suspicious on his part, I would just everybody to review their options.

[HopefullyCynical]

The no lynch thing with me and notscience was resolved several pages before he posted this, and it basically boiled down to a misinterpretation on my part. Why bring it up again? And FuDuzn gave us his promised post, and MVM hasn't unvoted him since then. Why?****

That is my own post, sorry guys I suck at quotes.

[HopefullyCynical]

MVM, it would vary from situation, but I was just cautioning people to not trust a player based solely on the amount of times they post.

notscience, if you post less about how dead the game is and make your posts worthwhile the game wouldn't be so "dead".

[HopefullyCynical]

With two days until deadline, I think we should place our votes to avoid a no lynch. I'm keeping mine on MVM. Things will pick up once night time rolls around.

[HopefullyCynical]

It's all well and good that you guys are approving the intent to lynch him, but we need one more vote on mvm for it to be official. Both of you agreed, but didn't put a vote on him? Why not?

[HopefullyCynical]

Sorry Feel It

Let's backtrack and look at who he was suspecting, now that we know he was townie.

[HopefullyCynical]

Stop looking so much into every little thing notscience. It sucks when anybody can't play this game anymore.

Reviewing the posts, Smudger was one of the biggest anti-Feel It players here. What do you guys make of that?

[HopefullyCynical]

Also of course, MVM was town. We should look into his suspicions as well, even though I fear there isn't much to go on.

[HopefullyCynical]

All I'm saying is that we've gained information through these flips. Smudger went in pretty hard on Feel It and while that in of itself is not indicative of scum, it's worth looking at since Feel It was night killed and revealed to be town. In addition to that, starting on page 7 Feel It started to ask FuDuzn about Smudger specifically, and this was around lynch time. Smudger and the other scum might have killed him to get him off their backs.

[HopefullyCynical]

Well Smudger, it's ironic you placed the vote on me, because I think you and notscience are the scum.

Smudger and notscience have been buddies since the beginning of this game. Back in post (92) notscience is masquerading as a scumhunter. He asks Smudger for his opinions and tells, knowing Smudger is his scum buddy so it looks like he's an active townie.

You accuse me of gunning for mvm, which I did. What you neglect to mention is that notscience was the one who first pointed out mvm's absence and I joined the bandwagon. See post (114) on page 5.

notscience has had it out for me since the start of the game, and you've backed him up on almost every account, including this one.

You and notscience are ignoring the fact that we've gained information from Feel It and mvm's flips, and that you were gunning hard for Feel It. I have a strong feeling you are trying to flip the blame on me since I fingered you. Leaning towards the conclusion that you and notscience have decided to off me next is more like it.

Also post 83 was simply a Princess Bride reference, don't read too much into it. And in post (132) I was (mis)quoting DDP's reference to Goodfellas, it was not an outburst. Hence my inexperience in forum-based mafia.

I'm going to wait to hear the responses on this, but I am going to place a vote on either you or notscience.

[HopefullyCynical]

I never said there was a difference. The only thing is that you were after Feel It for a long time, as far back as post 100. As for the lynch on mvm, just because I said that we should lynch doesn't mean that I was the first one to imply it. notscience in post 114 says that I sheeped him, which means he went for mvm first.

I already provided an instance of you and him buddying up in post 92. Waaaay back in the beginning of the game, when Dessew and notscience had a debate that basically amounted to nothing, whose side were you on? notsciences. See post 49.

As for your post 283, of course you wouldn't look at me before. That was because Feel It was still alive. Now you are free to come for me, like you are. Unless I misread your post.

This is easily the most aggressive you have been all game as well, you practically pounced on me as soon as notscience pointed out a potential scumtell, whereas before you didn't even mention me.

[HopefullyCynical]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm providing evidence for why you are scum to the other players. I've provided plenty of points against you and notscience, so far I've cited a post in every one of my responses so far. You can't look at this past exchange and say "why not address each of the points I have raised" when I have done exactly that.

[HopefullyCynical]

Once again Smudger, if you are so keen on insisting that I was the one that pushed for a lynch, notscience says I sheeped him in the post I've provided two times now. I don't know what else you want from me, especially since notscience has clearly read my posts and made no attempts to dispute this.

notscience, it seems like the majority of your posts come down to accusing someone of sheeping yourself or someone else sheeping another player. As for the scumometer, you were always neutral.

Severe omgus? Compared to your posts 65, 66, 68, and 73 back on page 3? Especially since this recent vote of yours is just a reaction to Z's.


"this is laughable to be honest." -Smudger, post 290
"look at Z7's against me. It's laughable." -notscience, post 292

You guys copy/pasting each other now? I get that everybody's case against you and Smudger is laughable, pathetic, etc. Do you either of you have anything actually substantial?

VOTE: notscience

I don't mind voting for either notscience or Smudger at this point, as I think both of them are scum.

[HopefullyCynical]

I like questions more than just stating it.

Smudger, who is scum?

currently, no-one is standout i my mind, but that is probably as my mind is still trying to decipher what the hell you guys see that is scum and what is not. I need to really concentrate and see what I can pick up. what is somewhat annoying is the fact that the opening punches are somewhat vicious and, to be honest mostly misleading' If you want to push me then I would actually put my vote back on Feel It, as his sum contribution is what? Squat.... I would also disagree with Z7 he left himself off his list and he should be higher than me or Hopeful, as right now I get a town vibe from him (hopeful)

I find that interesting. I've made observations, accusations and put a vote down, and I'd say I've put in as much as you, and more than Danny and mvm, so it's curious that you singled out me for not contributing. Feels almost like like a buddy attempt with notscience and Z7. VOTE: Smudger

notscience has become even more carefree with his posts even with my pressure so if he is scum he's pulling off a good masquerade.

I think Danny is just a town not taking himself seriously, but I could be wrong and he's pulling a double bluff.

Z7's estimations of people are a bit odd, how is mvm more town than FuDuzn? He seems town though.

Dessew and FuDuzn are both null for now, haven't really been able to get a read on them.

mvm has done nothing useful, will have put as a leaning scum for now, would like to see more involvement.

HopefullyCynical seems a newbie town. Got us fooled if scum.

As I was reviewing notscience's posts, specifically his "joke" in referencing his omgus, it reminded me of this post, by Feel It. He said that notscience has become more carefree since he (Feel It) began to pressure him. Looking at notscience's recent posts, he still slightly omgus'd Z7 when Z voted for him, but it was much less dramatic than before. It was even a similar situation, with players that notscience claimed were scum put votes on him and it made him "pissed off" (71). This is a HUGE shift in attitude and it only happened after Feel It mentioned it in this post.

[HopefullyCynical]

notscience, anybody can make the "I know I'm town" argument. The more you post, the more I agree with FuDuzn that you just attempt to attack players or divert attention rather than address the statements. Post 299, in response to FuDuzn being a perfect example.

[HopefullyCynical]

I respect that Smudger, your post 300 caught me off guard in a good way. You are less scummy after that, and my attention is much more on notscience now.

[HopefullyCynical]

Man, that really bites. The notscience lynch was definitely a mistake.

A couple questions, all concerning acronyms of course. I am sorry I am unfamiliar with so many of these What is LyLo and PR?

"Let us take a hypothetical line of thought, If I had not hammered who do you think would have been lynched in all probability, based on what was going on prior to the lead up tot the Hammer?" -Smudger

While I understand what you are trying to say, this is not a good defense at all. We have no idea what would have happened.

[HopefullyCynical]

What is a popcorn claim? And what's the difference between normal claims and massclaims, like what are the pros and cons of them?

Dessew, what are your thoughts on everybody? Since you were somewhat inactive for the notscience fiasco, I'd like to know your thoughts on everybody's alignment. It sucks that Z7 won't be active very active this week, but at least we have plenty of time to make a decision.

Fu, same question for you.

"What's up with HC, he hasn't posted for like a day" -Dessew

Did you miss me? HC has a life too haha

[HopefullyCynical]

Also Smudger, what do you think of Z7?

[HopefullyCynical]

"If you were forced to vote someone right at this second, who would it be? For me it would be Z7." -FuDuzn

I agree at the moment. A lot of townies thought Z was/is pretty sketchy.

Here are my reads at the moment.

I can't trust anybody. I'm not trying to say that to just dodge your question, I think we have to treat every interaction as if it could cost us the game.

I don't know about Smudger. I can certainly see it being "too obvious" to vote for him. But a lot of signs also point to him being scum. If we get duped by Smudger after what happened on D2...that would be incredibly embarrassing, haha. FuDuzn brings up a great point of noting that there is no reason why Smudger shouldn't share his findings/thoughts with us. The game depends on this decision, and it's pretty scummy to withhold information that could potentially help us.

I don't really know about you either. You have been rather quiet this game, and have only really started contributing recently. I think you are town though.

I do however, disagree that FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team. Now they could be brilliant, but there is no reason why FuDuzn would suggest that we target Z7 IF FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team. The scum team has the opportunity to win the game right now with this lynch, attempting to gain trust by selling off one of their own has almost no benefits to it.

At the moment, I think the potential scum teams are Smudger/Z7, FuDuzn/Smudger, Smudger being in both of my theoretical teams.

[HopefullyCynical]

Also, I just realized that when I asked Smudger's thoughts specifically on Z7 he didn't answer. See post 360.

FuDuzn, I'd really like your to hear your reads, besides Z7. And what specifically made you think I was more town? Although we have a considerably small pool of players left, for me to go from being one of your scum reads to the most town now is quite a change.

[HopefullyCynical]

What do you mean by bussing? Like throwing him under the bus? Assuming FuDuzn and Z7 are the scum team, what do they stand to gain from FuDuzn throwing Z under the bus? Let's assume that he does. Z7 flips scum. They gained nothing, except now FuDuzn has somewhat gained our trust. But I feel that winning the game completely, without giving us the chance to come back, is much smarter.

I'm not saying FuDuzn is not scum, I am just saying that this play would be extremely questionable if Fu and Z were the scum team. FuDuzn fingering Z7 would make much more sense if the scum team were FuDuzn/Smudger, as it would cause us to lose the game.

I'm sorry if I'm slow or I don't get it, but how exactly will Smudger withholding his PR information help us when we massclaim?

[HopefullyCynical]

I agree, but why would the scum team gamble like that? If they sacrificed one half of the scum team, that would give us at least another day. They would be playing with their food instead of finishing it.

[HopefullyCynical]

So are we just waiting on Z7 then?

[HopefullyCynical]

Smudger, the only thing I don't really get is why you are withholding information. If we have a 99% win chance, you should share it. I guess I don't understand what we stand to gain by you withholding it.

[HopefullyCynical]

I agree with those choices Dessew, but I'd like to hear your thoughts as why. And just to clarify, is a massclaim the same as a popcorn claim?

[HopefullyCynical]

Ok, as I am inexperienced, how exactly will this work? And how will this help us figure out who is scum? Are we looking for misclaims by players, and the real owners of the power roles will counter them? Sorry, I'm a little confused on the proceedings of this and don't want to muck this up.

[HopefullyCynical]

I'm a Town Jailkeeper.

[HopefullyCynical]

I did not know what breadcrumbing is before this. I did not leave any for people to find, in hindsight it definitely would have been smart. That was a very good call on Smudger's part to figure out the pr was me.

Ok, I apologize in advance for this...

@ HC could you please give us your night actions and why?

a.) I've only played a few times in real life with a sheriff/detective/seer
b.) I assumed we had a seer/detective, which was awful in hindsight. I misunderstood the matrix set up for roles.

That being said...

The first night, I took no action because I didn't want to accidentally jail our "seer", which obviously didn't exist. The next night was the notscience fiasco and I didn't really have much to go on besides the people that went in hard on notscience probably didn't pose a threat, so I opted to jail FuDuzn based on the seemingly random nature of the scum, and they hit DDP instead.

I apologize, I severely misplayed in my role

[HopefullyCynical]

Holy page long posts, Batman. Can we get a tl;dr version of that?

Dessew, how come you didn't really participate like this earlier? This is easily the most active you've been all game, and most of it seems reactionary to Smudger's claims.

[HopefullyCynical]

FuDuzn, I'd also like to point out that I thought Smudger was scum for a while as well, it wasn't like notscience where he was just riding me all game. See Day 2.

Smudger, between FuDuzn and Z7, who do you think is scum? Sorry if you posted it earlier and I didn't notice or recall it.

[HopefullyCynical]

Why do you not think it's Dessew, Fu?

[HopefullyCynical]

VOTE: Dessew

Sorry again for the misplays as Jailkeeper. If Dessew is not scum, I'm glad my first game of mafia was with you guys. It was/is a lot of fun!