Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Amrun]

I think we should establish a way to track votes before a challenge is issued.

For example...

pre-vote: angrypjdgeon

Gimme a piña colada, damnit. Drinking on kids shows is totally kosher.

[Amrun]

We CAN just vote but it will be much easier to differentiate -- in ISO, and later game, and even during the current day.

We should all also agree to use the vote tags for real votes because it's a different color.

P-edit: Not at all useless. Challenges should be issued in the most organized way possible. If willy billy challenges get issued, we will lose this game fast.

This mechanic is similar to ones I've played before, and if town doesn't control who is eligible for lynch with an iron fist, there will or problems.

[Amrun]

Amrun, how do you suppose we go about doing this? It seems that you have experience?

We can do something like only challenging when one guy get more than half of the "ARBITRARY" vote?

@Wisdom: Can you change back to your L avatar? I like that better.

No, only when at least one player FROM EACH team reaches a pre-determined amount of arbitrary votes.

Wisdom, how much mafia experience do you have?

[Amrun]

Answer my question. Experience isn't limited to mafiascum.

[Amrun]

No, they're for everywhere. You're espousing a patently terrible viewpoint and I want to know if you're misinformed or just inexperienced.

[Amrun]

I'm not calling you a noob. I'm asking if you are.

If you're not and are generally not terrible, then it is perhaps relevant to your alignment.

Do you have a history of espousing this viewpoint?

[Amrun]

No, actually, there is no reason not to answer my very simple question. Why so defensive?

[Amrun]

My initial thought is that you're not a noob because you're a little more aggressive than I'd expect for that. But refusing to answer shows some image-consciousness that is interesting.

[Amrun]

Reading any games will have to wait if I'm still interested; I should probably mention that my computer access is nonexistent every weekend and almost all of next week due to business (July 4th) but I still phone post during these times.

But a quick look at your topics says you've played a lot of games in a short period of time, which means you're just starting to come into that bravado stage where your ego is so big it can't fit through the door.

So you saying and doing really stupid things is most likely null.

[Amrun]

I don't think you're scum at all. I think you're probably town.

But asking questions to help determine your motivations is not something anyone should be being a dick about.

[Amrun]

It really doesn't matter if I was calling you the scum lord of the pygmies and preparing to cook you over the fire on a spit. There's no town motivation to refusing to answer simple questions early game. I've decided you're more likely just being a jerk though.

[Amrun]

No, I was saying it's interesting. I looked into it. It became less interesting in light of your context as a player.

[Amrun]

Jesus shit, you're an arrogant son of a bitch.

You think too highly if yourself and it's coloring your perception of the game. That's why it's not interesting. Thinking the game revolves around you can be a scum trait but in this case I think it's more a symptom of ego.

I never called you a noob, ONCE. Asking your experience is not an implication of an answer. Get over yourself and start playing the game without your head up your own ass.

[Amrun]

I never implied you were scum, Wisdom. If I had conviction on that end, I would have said so.

Eno, 5 sounds good. The main thing is we don't want to end up with only one suspect in the lynch pool in case (s)he becomes obvious town. Also having dueling wagons is always helpful for later analysis.

Furthermore, letting scum choose whether or not they are in the lynch pool by only choosing one side of the challenge removes a town advantage that we should absolutely have.

And Wisdom is probably town because he's engaging in risky behavior for scum. I'm one of the more experienced players in the game, which makes attacking me for, essentially, being too pro-town and being extremely rude in the process an intimidating one for scum. It's still risky even if I were a newer player, though a little less so. Either way being rude for rudeness sake is a quick way to make enemies and scum desire NOT to do this. Some people are rude no matter what, but either way I'm happy setting him aside for the day.

[Amrun]

The suggestion itself is 100% pro-town. This set-up isn't a mystery so if the plan is adopted, it will be a good plan regardless of the alignment of the originator.

Sure, suggesting it doesn't make me town, since scum also want to appear town. It also doesn't make me scum, either. In fact, traditionally, such suggestions are made far more often by town -- BUT it's still null because the scum motivation for doing it is so cut and dry. So the fact that I suggested a plan should not be treated as a tell in either direction (in my opinion, at least). Analyzing the manner in which I did it is another matter entirely.

And as I said, some people are rude regardless, but it's a perfectly valid reason to not be interested in pursuing you at the moment. That conviction is only strengthened by you arguing with the basis of my townread on you.

P-edit:

Experienced =\= skill. I am not even close to one of the best players on ms, but on the context of this game, I am one of the most experienced.

And it is just a basic fact. Sorry if that bothers you.

P-edit 2: my particular scummies say almost nothing about my relative talent. It can, however, be intimidating to inexperienced players.

[Amrun]

For the record, the most experienced are StrangerCoug and NS. The probably me and enomis.

[Amrun]

Wisdom convinces those 4 people to sheep him and lynches B.
It's all about how able scum are.
If able scum were able to win every time, we wouldn't be playing. Why should we follow plans that make it easier for them to win?

Dude.
Say your pair and another pair have four town in them.
Say I am scum and I know that.
I convince people to sheep me and make those two pairs challenge each other.
Boom, instant mislynch, AND lynchfodder for future days.

Okay, I think you're missing the point I was trying to make, but this is something we can talk about.

There are, at most, three scum in this game. If we require a majority of town to elect one side of TWO different pairs and then put them against each other, sure, it's possible for a short while for scum to hide. It is, however, unlikely, and on day 1 we are likely to have 1 scum in the lynch pool.

Even if we fail in our lynch, which is fairly likely for the average day 1, our failing is not decreased by taking control of the lynch pool.

The plan is, in my opinion, better because the scum can't simply kamikaze someone. Even if they gang up, they must convince the town.

Whereas with no formal plan in place, we open ourselves up to a couple of bad options:

-Scum challenging a pair with a predictable outcome of a town lynch, only one of which is likely
-Town pair challenging a pet scum read no one agrees with
-Any pair challenging an agreed upon scum read that the town realizes (too late) must be town, and lynches suboptimally due to lack of choices.
-Scum can simply choose never to nominate, and only by getting lucky can town get scum into the lynch pool

With my plan, town must at least be convinced by scum to nominate two pairs of people. Scum can make no action without town approval.

If scum are able to successfully hoodwink the town to that extent, the plan certainly doesn't HELP them do this in any way I can see.

If you have an alternate plan, or improvements to this one, I'm sure everyone wants to hear it.

Wisdom is town.

Amrun is scum. Off the bat strategy speculation is definitely more likely to come from scum than town and I love how she is trying to prove shes town in 94 without just saying she is. The argument with wisdom makes zero sense from a town perspective, especially since she thinks hes town.

I only got the town read on him by HAVING the argument, which is fairly obvious. So this statement makes no sense.

We should all also agree to use the vote tags for real votes because it's a different color.

Why does this matter?

If people are reading and comprehending the thread, there is no need for overly formatted voting. That just lets people be lazy and skim crap anyways.

It's a basic thing that could aid us in our comprehension. Is it the most important thing? No. But games get long and at the end of day 5, looking back will be a lot easier if we do this.

we will lose this game fast.

appeal to fear. And probably not unless you think its scum just targeting town/town groups and if that is the case then just PL their scumbutts for doing stupid shit like that. Self-correcting problem.

This is valid; in hindsight, this was poor phrasing. I didn't mean it to be taken literally.

In a literal sense, what I meant was I think we can improve our chances of winning by being systematic. We could win if we don't; we could still lose if we do.

Wow, and that talk about experience is BULLSHIT and completely irrelevant. Experience does not make someone a better player and really why the hell are you arguing this? You could be scumhunting people but instead you are having a pointless argument with someone you think is town - or do you?

Oh and the quick shift of tones suggests that amrun was faking all that outrage in the first place - which she was because shes scum so.

First of all, I never said experience makes a better player. In fact, I said it DOESN'T. It's not an "appeal to authority" as you called it either. You're reprinting context in a scummy way because I know for sure you are capable of understanding the difference. I never said "I'M EXPERIENCED; LISTEN TO ME!"

I ONLY brought it up in the context of WHY I think Wisdom is town, because I think attacking a player in that way when the player is of unknown skill with an earlier join date etc. is LESS likely to come from scum. It was never a comment on my actual skill level, which is completely irrelevant to the discussion and not something I'd brag about anyway.

Like, for real, AP... We've met in real life. I've talked about feeling like a not-so-great player in your presence. I don't see how you as town can come to such a wild conclusion that is the opposite of what I was saying.

And implies she is town for speculating on all this common sense and AtF in the first place? No.

Town typically doesn't argue bullshit with someone they think is town.

I am not at all saying I'm town for bringing up a plan. It's something I could do as any alignment. It doesn't make me scum, either.

P-edit times a million: holy shit.

Wisdom, how can you read anything that has been posted and say that I am trying to brag about myself to get people to sheep me?

For fucking real?

Ugh.

Also about this "fake outrage" stuff, I was never outraged at all. Mildly annoyed at wisdom's tone =\= outrage. And it wasn't a useless argument because i got a townread out of it.

[Amrun]

Oh yeah I forgot that. Lol. I knew that at one point.

It doesn't matter, though. Everything is still the same. It actually increases the likelihood of my plan being effective.

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

[Amrun]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

Do you see any holes in the plan?

[Amrun]

No, other than the fact our votes won't be counted; will we do it ourselves?

Yes, which is why I said we should all do it in a particular way that's easy to keep track of. It doesn't have to be the way I suggested. Perhaps someone else has a better/easier idea.

IMO, it should, ideally, distinguish between real votes that do count and fake votes that do not count. That way there's no confusion and when we look at people in ISO we don't have to wonder.

[Amrun]

Yeah, sure, that's a lot simpler than what I said earlier. Logikz

[Amrun]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

Do you see any holes in the plan?

THERE IS NO PLAN. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. YOU ARE MILKING TOWNCRED FROM NOTHING.

ffs venmar, how is Amrun not suspicious to you.

How can you not see that it is a plan? It's a systematic approach as opposed to a willy-nilly approach. In one, challenging whenever you feel like it is acceptable behavior; in my plan, that is NOT acceptable behavior. It's a significant departure from playing this game straight.

[Amrun]

I have middling success with NS.

He is still difficult to read but I think I have more luck than the average person with him because I do know him well.

Mostly I just ignore him until later in the game; he's much easier to read in context.

[Amrun]

No hydras allowed in the game.

Jury still out on enomis but fun to my head I would say town.

[Amrun]

Gun, not fun. Ha.

[Amrun]

I don't like how AP just didn't respond to me at all.

[Amrun]

In what way, Majiffy?

And if we could all vote yes or no to proceed with the nomination plan, please?

[Amrun]

Talk about the plan, Majiffy. What is your alternative? Do you have any improvements?

[Amrun]

Talk about the plan, Majiffy. What is your alternative? Do you have any improvements?

Shoot from the hip, remove as many possibilities for scum to just "slide in" to popular lynches. Force the issue, make them think on their feet. This is a game of reactions.

I don't see her blending in at all. she isn't taking easily defensible stances I don't think. what do you mean?

She looks like she's

trying

to, though. It's been bugging me, as well.

Awful idea. Terrible. I've already explained why.

[Amrun]

Grim groove, now he likes the plan once I explained it more thoroughly.

[Amrun]

I often share early townreads. It is part of my process of scumhunting. You can view it as an attempt to placate him of you want, but it didn't cross my mind. I suppose for that I'd have had to feel threatened, which I didn't. Either way, I would have rather read him as scum because he was annoying me so spearheading a wagon on him would have been fun. >.>

[Amrun]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

Do you see any holes in the plan?

THERE IS NO PLAN. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. YOU ARE MILKING TOWNCRED FROM NOTHING.

ffs venmar, how is Amrun not suspicious to you.

How can you not see that it is a plan? It's a systematic approach as opposed to a willy-nilly approach. In one, challenging whenever you feel like it is acceptable behavior; in my plan, that is NOT acceptable behavior. It's a significant departure from playing this game straight.

I find it very striking you're not opposing the statement that you were in fact milking for towncred. What you're saying here is that you actually deserve it.

I didn't really like Angry Pidgeon's case up tothis point, but this response was bad in my eyes.

Of course I'm not milking town cred, which I had already addressed ten billion times. Do I have to repeat myself as nauseum? The whole thing is a farce anyway because I've gotten nothing but patently negative attention for proposing a plan, so who am I supposed to be milking towncred from, exactly?

Also, please explain how something can be "a little bit" of a scumslip.

For the record, I assumed three scum because I've never been in a mini with a 4p scumteam to my recollection and I've been in idk how many games, but easily upwards of 100.


Yes, wisdom is still a town read. No, he's not the only one but he's the strongest one. His has been relevant to share so far because I think sharing your conclusions after a spat with someone is helpful, at least most of the time.

[Amrun]

Elyse, what does being angry a scum lean doesn't pan put say to you?

P-edit:

I seriously want you to explain how something can be "a little bit" of a scumslip.

[Amrun]

Of course plans can have contrary results. That wasn't my point. My point was that I have ready exhaustively explained that I wasn't milking towncred and, in fact, should not be given town cred for it. I already addressed a post to ap about it so objecting to not doing it for like the third time is lala land mudslinging in my eyes.

As for my supposed slip, to be frank, I would probably view it as a town tell if someone else had done it. Not a town SLIP, something that is cut and dry, but something that makes someone marginally more likely to be town. But it's not difficult to manufacture so calling it null is maybe safer. That's the only way it would come from scum (purposefully). Only the dumbest of scum would not know how many partners they had.

I would rather not re- explain my town read on Wisdom because I've already explained it far more than I usually like to explain early town reads. Nothing has changed. The concepts are not difficult. If something in particular confuses you, ask a particular question.

[Amrun]

No, that's not the only reasons for Wisfom town. He attacked a player with an earlier join date etc. with unknown skill (to him) very aggressively in a way that I think is indicative of town. He was also quick to admit he was wrong even when I was still under fire from other parties. I don't particularly care if you agree with my town read, though.

"La la land mudslinging" is my slang for throwing nonsensical shit at someone and hoping it sticks. In this case, I was referring to you, though I also think it's true of AP (and moreso).

[Amrun]

Pirate mollie, it's not that he did it necessarily. It's the way he did it. Once again, I really don't care who agrees with me and I never will unless he was about to be lynched. I may change my read later; I may not. For today, I am not interested in him dying and that's that.


Majiffy, was Venmar scum in that game?

P-edit: I do not follow the reasoning for that being a scumslip in the slightest.

[Amrun]

Once again, I really don't care who agrees with me and I never will unless he was about to be lynched. I may change my read later; I may not. For today, I am not interested in him dying and that's that.

Amrun, why do you have this frustration about explaining your townread? You're practically saying "omg guys I just townread him okay? i dont care if you agree just stop asking me to explain!"

Because I don't think spelling it out even as specifically as I did is pro-town; in the spirit of transparentness I have explained more than I like to, but my limit has been reached. I am not at all interested in giving the scum in this game (or even future games) an exact map of how to get an early game townread out of me.

Grim, I am interested in your reads but it does not bother me if you happen to disagree with one of them. Not sure why or how this could be interpreted as aggressive but okay.

[Amrun]

Also, wisdom, that's just not a slip. It just isn't.

[Amrun]

Pirate mollie, you have used the same thing to call wisdom scum that I used to call him town. (One of the things, anyway.) You are saying he is less aggressive than usual which is scummy. I was saying the opposite (without the metric of what usual is for him) and you disagreed with the reasoning. Explain that, please.

Grim, I can be, have been, and will be aggressive when and if it suits my mood and/or the game. Are you always so sensitive to aggression? Do you have evidence of this?

[Amrun]

Come to think of it: why is this relevant?

If you're always very sensitive, it's not relevant at all. If, however, you are displaying new behavior, or behavior you have not displayed as town, it could be indicative of a scum mindset (pre-emptively defensive and worried about criticism they expect to be coming). In your case, I think it's more of the former, but please never speak of ongoing games again.

[Amrun]

P-P-edit:

She really did call herself likely town for the plan

and then defend the plan by pointing to "experience". That is not town motivated.

Part in bold: Not true.
The rest: Don't agree.

Yes, she did:

In fact, traditionally, such suggestions are made far more often by town

Grim is not commenting on my alignment but soft-agrees with Venmar's 'case' on me and implies I'm blatantly misrepping events in the thread. I'm basically down to lynch that with no questions asked right now.

Way to fucking snip that sentence in half so it says the opposite of what I actually said. That's so blatantly scum I can't even believe it. Wow.

[Amrun]

I don't have strong scum reads on anyone in this group.

Fuck you, Majiffy. This is fucking terrible.

From your group I pick piratemollie, from Sc's group I pick strangercoug.

Although at this point I'd be perfectly fine with Majiffy dying for being so anti-town that it could come from scum easily -- and picking on the newbie in this manner isn't attractive either.

Shit this is fucking terrible.

Now the whole town is forced to vote out of a pool we would not have chosen organically.
Fuck you, seriously.

[Amrun]

The more I think about it the more the blood of righteousness flows through my veins.

VOTE: majiffy

[Amrun]

I am not so sure about Majiffy town, wisdom.

[Amrun]

I didn't say he agreed to the plan. I said what he did was fucking terrible and anti-town.

There were actions he could have taken that weren't the plan that I didn't find scummy. This wasn't one of them. It strong arms the town into doing something they don't want to do and presenting them with only one likely option who is a newbie and likely to crack under pressure no matter the alignment.

Even challenging someone who more people suspected (like AP's group) would have been marginally better.

[Amrun]

Also you're not really a scum read of mine. That's the fucking point. I hate this lynch pool.

And I don't see why that reaction makes him town at all.

[Amrun]

Then why did you say this:

From your group I pick piratemollie,

?

Because taking the one scummy challenge out of the equation, of the pair I'd rather have killed piratemollie, and probably out of all four of them.

That isn't the person I'd lynch given an actual choice. That would be AP.

I'd classify piratemollie more as a scum lean than an actual scumread but I wanted to observe what the behavior was when Majiffy was under attack. As expected, it's adamant defense, but not in a particularly alarming way.

Mollie, did Majiffy tell you he was going to challenge before he did it?

[Amrun]

Oh, and grim, the blood of righteousness has nothing to do with you and saying it did is a huge stretch.

Also I don't mean to imply that you're defenseless. You do, however, fall under a certain category of newer players that behave a certain way (until they gain some experience). You're also pretty sensitive. It has very little to do with you and everything to do with Majiffy's motivations.

Majiffy took an action to reduce town's choice and get a fairly predictable outcome -- he certainly wasn't going after strangercoug. He didn't make a case, and he hasn't done anything to push the wagon. I think he expected his lovely newbie wagon just to fall into place. I find him scummy for it.

What is YOUR read on Majiffy?

P-edit: oh I missed that, thanks. Did that affect your read on him in any way?

[Amrun]

Strangercoug is just townier to me -- no special reason. His thoughts have aligned with mine more often than several other people's. I may end up compromising onto coug today and I won't cry. He's my second choice.

P-edit: no I meant mollie sorry

[Amrun]

I meant in the context of not including Majiffy's scummy challenge which I mentioned earlier. I haven't slept in like a billion hours.

In any case I'm probably mildly incoherent but I essentially meant "coug is my third choice after mollie, who is second fiddle to Majiffy"

P-edit: yes, enomis suspected grim until recently and I'm fairly certain at least someone else did. (And at one point even I called him out for mudslinging).

[Amrun]

He did to me. Pretty sure he mentioned it in thread somewhere too. (Possibly not but I did think so)

[Amrun]

Hmm.

Well, I will check that when I have a few brain cells to rub together.

[Amrun]

Sure that's POSSIBLE. I think it was second most likely for the lynch to fall onto coug (lots of tertiary suspicion there).

That's not to say its incredibly likely but yeah.

[Amrun]

Grim, yes, I now have a town read on you. Have for quite some time. Thought that was obvious.

[Amrun]

AP, I never said Majiffy was a PL -- and, in fact, I think he is scum. You just haven't bothered reading beyond skimming and it's painfully obvious. You're trying to pretend you have read properly, which is scummy.

[Amrun]

I have explained it, and quite thoroughly -- not in those posts, but in others which you are pretending to have read but have not.

[Amrun]

AP, I said in the first post about Majiffy that I could see his action coming from scum -- that's a scum read.

To be honest, if I thought Majiffy was town I'd still be happy to policy lynch him for behaving so anti-town, or at least I'd consider it and then probably ultimately decide against it. But I DON'T think he's town for this.

Pirate mollie is slowly starting to look better to me as this day progresses. If Majiffy fails to be lynched, I'd be happier lynching StrangerCoug than any of the other candidates.

But I like how you just ignore all the other things I said before in response to you.

But sorry; I didn't realize you hadn't totally caught up before. I was under the impression you had.

[Amrun]

I didn't want the day to end yet.

I feel like we could get so much more out of it; why the rush?

That being said, I'm willing to hammer I'd just rather not do it yet.

I'd like Majiffy to answer the above questions first, and content from our lurkers.

[Amrun]

I know it's night less. That doesn't mean we shouldn't get as much information as possible out if each day -- in fact, it's MORE important since there is no night game.

That's why I wanted to make sure two groups that included at least two suspects aren't up on the block, to avoid this sort of lazy, compromise day that is happening now. It's harmful to town both in the short and long run.

[Amrun]

I must say that thinking Majiffy challenged 3/4 of his scum team is pretty nonsensical.

[Amrun]

no he is like confscum I don't understand why he isn't lynched already jesus christ

This isn't even close to being true. I'm not confident about this flip at all.

That being said, the town has devolved into silliness and petty arguments. The usefulness of this day is at its close.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

[Amrun]

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

[Amrun]

No, I am trying to stay afloat in my games with the very short time I have in between customers. I've said I'm crazy busy this week and restricted to phone access with scattered attention until I'm blue in the face.

And I wasn't talking to you, Wisdom.

[Amrun]

Venmar ilu

[Amrun]

At least the lynch pool is good, though rushed.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[Amrun]

Wait how many are there?

I thought there were like 2.

I don't think anyone should be hasty about actually lynching -- but it's clear where my preference lies so I didn't see the point in not voting.

[Amrun]

AP is scum because he pushed a bullshit case on me that clearly and willfully misinterpreted things I was saying and was just all around ridiculous stretches.

More significantly than that, though, when I responded to him -- full response -- he didn't address it ever again even when I prodded him about it. That doesn't make sense for someone who is SO SURE I'm scum.

Later, he said I said something the opposite of what I actually said by snipping a quote on purpose. When I called him on these he just posted willy wonka.

He hasn't behaved towards me like someone trying to determine my alignment. He has simply flailed and tried to throw mud.

This behavior continued with grim groove. Whatever the person getting pressure, he adds to it but not in a consistent way. It's opportunistic.

Also, deposite all this, I think we should lynch ns if he doesn't provide content today.

[Amrun]

Have you played with AP before? Can you be sure it's not just how he plays?

I modded AP's newbie and I've met and played with him in real life. Yes, I know him.

[Amrun]

My familiarity with his scum game is mostly in person, which is a different medium -- but, given that, yes. It reminds me strongly of his scum play. Quiet until he talks, and when he talks, it's a wild push on someone convenient if he can come up with a unique reason, or a conventional push if he can't. On the forums it's much more likely hat he can come up with reasons as he's very smart.

[Amrun]

I don't actually want to lynch him over AP. I want to use the threat of lynching him to force him to produce content. But if I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is, it's an empty threat. And the thing is, if he's not going to provide content at all, it's better to lynch him now than later even if he IS Town.

The sad thing is is that he probably is town because usually as scum he puts in some token effort.

I love NS but in a 4 scum night less game we can't afford dead weight.

Safety dance is much the same except that he didn't find himself accidentally in the lynch pool today, and also I don't have a meta read on him.

[Amrun]

In fact, Safety dance has produced SOMETHING, and what he has produced I lean scum on.

But ns hasn't posted anything at all but prod dodges.

[Amrun]

No way does Wisdom reverse his ap-scum read for such a very stupid reason.

It's too conspicuous for a scum on town or scum on scum interaction.

[Amrun]

No way does Wisdom reverse his ap-scum read for such a very stupid reason.

It's too conspicuous for a scum on town or scum on scum interaction.

Not sure what you meant by that, no way I do that as town or as scum?

Oops, as town.

My brain is fried.

[Amrun]

Er... I meant as scum. I'm trying to call you town.

:'(

Clearly I'm not fully capable of explaining things at the moment.

[Amrun]

Wait how many are there?

I thought there were like 2.

I don't think anyone should be hasty about actually lynching -- but it's clear where my preference lies so I didn't see the point in not voting.

Didn't you do this yesterday, too? And then hammer?

Yes, quite a while later. And no one was interested in why I said that, or in anything relevant to who was on the lynch block. If the content being generated isn't relevant to someone who may potentially flip, or won't lead to a flip, then we're just spinning wheels and that's what was happening. In that situation, a flip can help. But really, no one but strangercoug had the support at all so I realized there was no point anymore. Hammers had been threatened several times already and I wanted to see some sort of flip to try and re-align ourselves into a more useful position.

And then we had insta-challenge. So plan failed essentially.

[Amrun]

Aaaand I like some of these more recent ap posts. Well damn.

Doesn't matter, though -- I still think he's scum.

AP, don't give me this shit about ignoring your case or whatever. I tried to engage you about your case, and you just TOTALLY ignored me. That's what I find far scummier than your misrepping case. And your defense to that -- "I'm in too many games" -- is terribly scummy. I don't care how many games you're in. I've been v/la for pretty much the whole duration of this game, and I still manage to respond to thingsy scum reads say to me. You have posted, just not about the things I think you would be interested in as actual town with a genuine scum read on me. And that's why you're scum.

Also I never said wisdom was too scummy to be scum. He is engaging in several different types of behavior I find it unlikely for scum to engage in. Ergo, he is town.

Also wtf at you not being in a newbie I modded? Remember, UN was in it and was scum and his partner ruined the game...? We talked about this like 3 times before.

Grim, who have I buddied? Why do you think I lack "cases?" Why do you think cases are important?


I was trying to see if I could get enomis to open up in qt by professing a town read on him here, but it's not really working. He asks for my opinions on lots of things but usually has to be prompted to provide his own, and they're generally pretty wishy washy. He could easily be scum.

Elyse is town, though, idk what you guys are smoking.

[Amrun]

Why would she put her neck out for safety dance like that as scum, being who he is? And in general, I follow her posts and they come off as townish to me.

[Amrun]

SafetyDance is obvtown.

It was this, but I realized in finding it that it was a joke. I thought it was based on qt posts originally. Woops. Idc, she is still a town read for me. She reflects my thoughts too often.


Grim, you missed some questions I had for you.

[Amrun]

I don't have time for that shit, and I don't like doing that anyway. It's anti-town in most situations.

Call it gut, if you please. I don't find it happening often that scum reflect my actual thought PROCESSES as town. Because they're not town, and imitate all they want, but coming to the same conclusion IN THE SAME WAY multiple times is always a town tell for me.

P-edit: once again, I don't really care. Elyse isn't even on the chopping block.

[Amrun]

I've been v/la for pretty much the whole duration of this game, and I still manage to respond to thingsy scum reads say to me

So? You want me to make sure to ISO my scumreads and answer questions they make?

This whole line of thought on me hinges around me 'reading and pretending I havent' which is hilarious. What in your mind WOULD I HAVE REPSONDED TO just now. Im sure you're talking about my posts today. I started reading from where I started quoting shit.

What in your mind WOULD I HAVE REPSONDED TO just now

And by that I mean in my string of catchup walls today. Im assuming that is what you mean in part at least.

How could I be referring to your catch up posts when they were made AFTER what I said?

I was referring to your posts yesterday before the challenge even occurred. You came in, dropped a bullshit was of rage on me, and then I responded to it. You were away for a little while, not long (less than 24 hours ish) and when you came back, you responded to a ton of things that happened in the same time frame but zero percent of my substantial responses to you. I could have gone into the lynch pool. You could have pursued me and convinced the town that I should die. You completely neglected to even attempt to do this, and it was only AFTER that that you fell behind in the game anyway. And I mentioned t a couple of times and you STILL never responded.

That's why you're scum.

[Amrun]

It isn't about page 33+. It never was. I'm confused why you seem so fixated on that?

[Amrun]

Also that evidence to fit the reads thing is fucking bullshit since I've literally been repeating the SAME evidence as nauseum since yesterday, and only after it occurred did I form a full scum read on you. It has never changed.

[Amrun]

*ad nauseum

God my phone autocorrect is terrible. Sorry about that. It is riddled throughout all my posts and it is embarrassing.

[Amrun]

Oh my god wait was that a hammer?!

[Amrun]

Venmar has had a scum read on you since day 1. Hardly willy nilly. I'm concerned about if it is a hammer, though?!

unvote

[Amrun]

All if a sudden it's lynch elyse tomorrow and not me? Took you quite a long to give dying reads there.

[Amrun]

Me too. So I think we're about to see a scumflip and my juices are beginning to flow!!

[Amrun]

And why did you want to unvote?

[Amrun]

But see, mollie, up until the point of the hammer, now supposedly fake, I was rethinking, even though he never once addressed my issues with him without trying to address seething else I wasn't even talking about. His reaction was NOT ragey, as I'd expect of town -- it was cautious. Now I'm unsure what to think.

[Amrun]

I just read it again. He took too long to address it. That's not natural.

VOTE: angryPidgeon

[Amrun]

Okay, I disagree, but your described summary of ap town does not even remotely fit AP's behavior post hammer. Like not even close.

[Amrun]

Mollie, please address my previous post.

[Amrun]

Okay, I disagree, but your described summary of ap town does not even remotely fit AP's behavior post hammer. Like not even close.

ap wasn't lynched in posh so wtf. to me it looked like he gave up

why are you trying to paint this anything else?

I'm not. I'm saying that its not behavior I'd expect of AP town. I don't think "ap town giving up" would look like this. I think this is "ap scum playing it safe."

The self vote happened way before that and isn't related.

P-edit: lol that's retarded. I was just making sure you didn't miss it in the flurry of posts. I'm not eligible for voting anyway. Loooool

[Amrun]

No, I'm not saying you are ignoring me. But apparently you lack the ability to read.

[Amrun]

Why would ap, so full of rage just a moment before, lose it all upon thinking he has been mislynched? It doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

Why would ap, so full of rage just a moment before, lose it all upon thinking he has been mislynched? It doesn't make sense.

Didn't someone make a similar comment about you earlier in the game?

Was I mislynched in this game without my knowledge...?

[Amrun]

I think someone may have said that, but that never actually occurred. I don't even remember who said it, but I have not hit a point in this game of being full of rage. And if I had it would have been towards you and not at the time in question.

But for the sake of argument, let's say it was true. Let's say I was once full of rage and stopped being angry. The thing that precipitated that still wouldn't have been "being hammered as town" so it's still not relevant.

[Amrun]

I think someone may have said that, but that never actually occurred. I don't even remember who said it, but I have not hit a point in this game of being full of rage. And if I had it would have been towards you and not at the time in question.

But for the sake of argument, let's say it was true. Let's say I was once full of rage and stopped being angry. The thing that precipitated that still wouldn't have been "being hammered as town" so it's still not relevant.

Yes it is, because your point relies on his changing emotional state moreso than it does on the situational event.

And for what it's worth, I don't recall seeing AP in a "state of rage" whatsoever.

I didn't find his changing emotional state consistent with the events at hand or what I would expect of this particular player as town. Context always matters.

And you can completely delete that whole part of the argument if you would like be quad it doesn't matter that much. Disregarding all that came before, AP's behavior post "hammer" is not consistent with someone who really thought he'd been hammered as town.

[Amrun]

But he actually had scum reads on me, venmar, and elyse, so ... That's most of them.

If my entire case rested on the laurels of his post hammer behavior, it wouldn't be a slam dunk case. It's speculation, and extrapolation on behavior. So when we have a different opinion about his behavior it's an impasse. Sure, I grant all of that.

But he STILL deflected every point against him without acknowledging that and it's STILL scummy.

And even though there are some situations in which it's possible that his post-lynch behavior comes from town, I still think its exceedingly more likely to come from scum. I think he knew he was hammered, and I think that makes him scum.

[Amrun]

Yes obviously.

[Amrun]

unvote

I still want replies to my original issues, but I'm leaning town now because those reactions FINALLY read genuine.

Ap, for the record, by "taking too long to react" I didn't mean that you weren't posting and not posting is scummy. I meant that you WERE posting and the content of your posts were not addressing the "hammer" in the manner I expected you to as town.

[Amrun]

Even if I could, I would not.

[Amrun]

Grimgroove, just FYI. That's retarded.

[Amrun]

I didn't know the hammer was fake. For the record.

But asking me to explain someone's else statement is just crazypants.

[Amrun]

It is something I would have done if the opportunity presented itself, so it wasn't an outlandish assumption.

[Amrun]

By not questioning your townread on her for glaringly wrong reasons. That's how.

She probably re-read the happenings herself and thought it could be read as her playing along, yet she missed the part I did not miss, namely the thing I bolded in post 1042.

That's ridiculous. Fucking lol.

A) I wasn't sure what he meant by it, but assumed that he meant my general activity around the reaction test.

B) I was attempting not to interrupt your line of questioning to him, but YOU made that impossible.

C) that wouldn't get me "towncred" anyway lol

That said, Im sorry.

But I had every right to post relrvant defense to a case that was centered around my ACTIVITY which amrun flatout admitted.

Zero percent of my reasons for you have had anything to do with the frequency and timing of your posts. ZERO PERCENT. I have explained this to you repeatedly, but you continue to ignore that I take issue ONLY with the content of your posts. I thought you were doing this deliberately but the more it happens the more I think you are just monumentally failing at reading.

[Amrun]

Fucking lol. If I were tryin to do that because I was retarded, why would I blatantly say that I couldn't explain it, and then say that I didn't know it wasn't a hammer?

Are you high?

[Amrun]

The questioning was not at a close, at least from my pov, but it doesn't matter because I just thought he found me generally town
Because we were overall in step throughout the process. I am confident he's town so him finding me town is not a strange thing I need to question.

It doesn't matter because your entire premise is completely nonsensical. When you asked me I point blank said I could t explain it, before you posted your little "revelation" or what the fuck ever that was just part of my posts. It's a horrible stretch. Horrible horrible horrible.

[Amrun]

I've explained that already. You posted immediately so why you think I meant you took too long to post is fucking beyond me. Please learn to read, ap. I know you are a smart boy. Try harder.

[Amrun]

Shit the fuck up for five seconds and learn to READ. It had zero things to do with the TIMING of your posts. Zero!

[Amrun]

I never called your activity, spotty or otherwise, scummy. It isn't.

I did, and still do, have issues with what you chose to post when you were posting.

[Amrun]

But no, I don't think explaining what was happening in real life should be anything to feel shame for. (??)

P-edit: I'm fine with it anyway.

[Amrun]

Hey ap!!!!

I love you, no matter what happens in this game!

Just felt the need to drop that here.

[Amrun]

Majiffy, since when do you think I am scum?

[Amrun]

I'd you don't I probably will. Lack scum reads on anyone else (or ns, but oh well).

P-edit: k whateva was just curious since you never me ruined until just now when it's all of a sudden popular

[Amrun]

I like that song, ap!! Lets do karaoke of it one day.

[Amrun]

challenge the monkeys

Well, that's why we lynch ns. He is too hard to read to keep around very long.

[Amrun]

Wisdom, can you comb through your qt and report, please?

P-edit: yes, sometimes. But it varies. But I have seen him bus heavily.

[Amrun]

Omg he was so fencesitty on Majiffy, that's so wifom

[Amrun]

Yesterday needs to be re-read. Thar be information there.

[Amrun]

Yeah but that's a classic scum tactic (use a ns associative tell to implicate partner, oh woops person a flipped town so guess it doesn't apy to person b teehee). Still, eh.

Need to do some analysis but can't right this second. Who interacted with the ns wagon in what way will be very telling.

P-edit: he said I usually do? That's p odd because it isn't true. It's not an odd thing for me to do, but most games don't require plans...

[Amrun]

P-edit: he said I usually do? That's p odd because it isn't true. It's not an odd thing for me to do, but most games don't require plans...

That only makes you look worse then, because that means NS wanted me to townread you.

That's a pretty elementary way to look at it, but me telling you why is useless.

Maybe he did, or maybe he just had weird wording. Because I certainly have proposed mother plans both recently and in the past.

Can you say the exact wording?

[Amrun]

If you had said that earlier I might have had a legit scum read on ns haha. Basically I think he did want you to read me as town, if it wasn't just wonky wording, but for a different reason -- I usually err on the side of town when it comes to ns.

[Amrun]

Wisdom, come on, I know you know how to read better than that. I didn't know why you said I was obvtown, but since I am town, it didn't seem odd to me -- but more importantly, I said that BEFORE grim posted anything. And "evidence I didn't know?" Are you legit retarded? It was my own posts!


Unrelated, I'm most inclined to vote safety today, and then enomis.

[Amrun]

I don't see it.
Here Amrun admits to not knowing the hammer was fake, so how was she part of the reaction test?

But see, mollie, up until the point of the hammer,

now supposedly fake

, I was rethinking, even though he never once addressed my issues with him without trying to address seething else I wasn't even talking about. His reaction was NOT ragey, as I'd expect of town -- it was cautious. Now I'm unsure what to think.

All this energy wasted on calling me a retard could have easily been used with simply explaining or pointing me to where this Amrun-reaction test happened instead of being dicks about it.

So I missed some stuff. SUE ME!

Call me a retard or scum or both, but at least one of those will be rebuked sooner or later and at least one of them will be thrown back in your face as a result.

I didn't know the hammer was fake. For the record.

But asking me to explain someone's else statement is just crazypants.

You said it right after Grim found your post that showed you didn't know.
You posted before that and said absolutely nothing about me townreading you because of your supposed participation in the reaction test.

A) your phrasing never made clear that you thought I was town because I participated in the gambit as opposed to being involved in it

B) right before that, I said I didn't know why you were town reading me specifically. Stop being selective.

I'm fine with lynching enomis first.

[Amrun]

I don't.

[Amrun]

Um yes I did

[Amrun]

Amrun and Venmar

(especially Amrun)

are town as balls for the reaction test.

?

You must explain this or I'll vote you never to move my vote away again.

Amrun, can you explain this?

Even if I could, I would not.

Learn to fucking read, and learn to think outside of yourself. You are not very good at ascribing realistic motivations to people.

No one would actually do what you're describing because it is RETARDED.

[Amrun]

... What?

[Amrun]

Oh. It doesn't, TO YOU. It says I can't explain it, ie I don't know why it exists. But go on ignoring that. It's pretty par for the course with you this whole game.

It's extra annoying because you're town.


P-edit: what the fuck can you actually not read english

[Amrun]

Because that is how the English language works. "Explain why he said he has a town read on you." "I can't."

It's pretty fucking straight forward.

And pro tip, no one, of any alignment, would be "making things up" like that and the fact that this even crosses your mind is an indication of several things, the primary one being you are not thinking deeply enough.

[Amrun]

The fact that you legitimately think that ANYONE would lie about making a post, and that SCUM would do this, blows my mind. People can, like, check that shit, y'know? Did you think of that all by yourself?

[Amrun]

Yeah, I have no clue what you were talking about. That's exactly what I just said and you just swore up and down that I was lying about saying that.

I was still, at that point, waiting for you to answer the question and not wanting to influence your answer. I have said that several times. It is not rocket science.

But since I am already reading you so strongly as town, I was less concerned than if, say, safety dance had come in and said that. We were walking in step there for quite a while, and that's a perfectly legitimate, and common, source of town reads for most people. It re-affirmed my town read on you, so why shouldn't the opposite have been true? If I had realized you were saying I had participated in the gambit, I would have had some different things to say.

Since you just acknowledged I had no idea what you were talking about, your whole argument falls apart.

[Amrun]

I have been a little rude in this exchange. I apologize.

P-edit: yes, and that's the opposite of what you originally said, but good job changing the goal posts!

I didn't go with it for the reasons you seem to think, but I'm going to step away from this game for the night.

Just don't anyone hammer me before I have a chance to analyze the ns wagon, please.

[Amrun]

lol analyze the NS wagon. A wagon that we all joined to compromise. Most contrived effort to appear town I've seen.

It was a compromise wagon, but his scum buddies knew he was scum so there is bound to be information there.

I'm pretty fed up with this game so I'm kind of hoping I get lynched but that is bad and anti-town so I will do the thing no one else will do and analyze the behavior of who compromised/didn't compromise and when. Then if I get lynched I won't have to feel bad.

On the plus side, we finally followed my plan today and it is by far the most pro-town lynch pool yet! Small victory there.

[Amrun]

I sympathize. Truly.

[Amrun]

Because that is how the English language works. "Explain why he said he has a town read on you." "I can't."

This only happened after I asked you the question. The fact I had to prompt you to do this, is already telling in itself.
And evena fter the prompt you were considerably vague. Instead of saying "No.", you said "Even if I could, I wouldn't", which is simply not an answer.

Except it is an answer. Why you would ask me to explain why someone else has a town read on me is beyond me anyway. It's so fucking stupid I can't even comprehend it.

[Amrun]

Ps "even if I could" means that I can't which means "I don't know" which is an answer.

And that patently debunks your solidly retarded theory.

Oh and also I no longer think you're town.

But wisdom still is. Even though you're both being equally stupid.

[Amrun]

Why don't I take my own advice and walk away

Whyyyyy

Sorry

[Amrun]

The current state of the title always reminds me of this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw

Proceed.

(I don't care who goes first, Amrun, enomis or Safety Dance, but, well, I prefer Amrun to go first because I'm kind of proud of what I found.)

is this real because even you abandoned "what you found" because it is nonsensical. Both of you acknowledge I didn't know what wisdom meant, which means that what you found cannot be true.

[Amrun]

Awwww I liked that post

VOTE: safetydance

[Amrun]

So you show up with a bigass wall post after Wisdom calls you out and you manage to fencesit on all 3 other people in the lynch pool.

And you forgot to mention me over someone like SAFETYDANCE.

I reallllly am not seeing it.

Yeah but that's why he's town, probably.

[Amrun]

Enomis fails to mention that our responses are exactly the same, and that I had to prompt him repeatedly to
Give me his own reads after I gave mine freely. And most of the reads he gave were just fence sitting anyway.

I have just as many posts as him in the qt, if not more, and mine are far more detailed overall. At some point we realized we are in like opposite time zones, which doesn't help.

This is one of the reasons I thought enomis could be scum, because he was looking for things from me while not providing them himself.

BUT

His last post just came off soooo genuine to me. I just have a hard time seeing him as scum now. :/

[Amrun]

What's so genuine about it? Did you have the impression that scum are unable to produce a list of reads?

Um, what?

There isn't any scum motivation to post the particular reads that he did. It is not something scum would do.

P-edit: it was the same thing I already posted here, that I liked his latest post etc. the only addition is that it's unfortunate that one of us is likely going down today but that I would vote him only at no other recourse and would push safetydance over him.

[Amrun]

It is not something scum would do.

Why? Would scum do what NS did and present no reads at all? No. So saying what scum hypothetically wouldn't do has already been proven useless.

Yes, scum would do that, especially with a meta that supports it. It's much easier to do that than to do what enomis has done, which is the opposite of opportunism.

[Amrun]

To put it simply, that post was not engineered with a survival mindset. I'm pretty sure it's just his reads, and they happen to be fencesitty. That's how he's been all game, and it's weirded me out, but re-reading, his reads have progressed in a way that makes sense, given that he is as cautious as that.

I opened our qt the way I did for a reason. I wanted to see if enomis was interested in gaining a town read from me.
At first it appeared that he was, but it's now abundantly clear that he's more interested in determining if I am scum than being town read by me. That's what town does.

P-edit: yes USUALLY. This is not the first,'or the last, time that ns has done nothing at all as scum. That's why his meta is so successful. He's very good at being unreadable.

[Amrun]

P-edit: yes USUALLY. This is not the first,'or the last, time that ns has done nothing at all as scum. That's why his meta is so successful. He's very good at being unreadable.

Yeah so you basically say contradicting things about NS the way it suits you each time. First you say that usually NS puts some effort in as scum, and therefore he must be town, and now you say that it's normal for NS to not put any effort in as scum, because his meta supports it.
Just no.

Yeah, usually, he does. And his meta does support not doing anything as scum. Both of those things are verifiably true, if you would bother to check it out for yourself, but that would require THINKING.

[Amrun]

Both of the things I said are true, whether or not you think they're contradictory. So if they're true, and they are, then your position makes no sense.

Ps, though, they're not contradictory.

[Amrun]

No, I said that ns scum can get away with not giving reads because his meta supports it. He still doesn't give many reads as EITHER alignment, and his job is to act like town. NS is one of the most notoriously difficult to read players on this site for a reason.

Your position (that I was wrong about one thing and therefore can never speculate again) is complete bullshit. The entire basis of this game is positing what scum may or may not do and who is less or more likely to be scum because of it.

Everyone must speculate to this end -- every single player -- because that is how the game is played.

Trying to paint me as scummy for this is like... Acid trip level.

[Amrun]

It seems, throughout this game, there has been an awful lot of idiotic and acid-trippy arguments thrown your way, Amrun. Do you think it might be a conspiracy?

For the record, what are your reads? Could you do something similar as enomis, or point us to where you did that in case you already did?

There have really only been like 3 really stupid things said towards me. But your leading question is noted, thanks.

My reads are quite obvious, and I've commented on everyone several times.

But yes, I will gather them all into one post before everything is said and done.


@wisdom: I think I see what the confusion is, then. I never said "always" or "never." When I said anything at all, I said "usually." In absence of usually, I assumed that would be understood because its common sense. I don't see the point of using wishy washy language when we all know there are no absolutes.

[Amrun]

@wisdom: I think I see what the confusion is, then. I never said "always" or "never." When I said anything at all, I said "usually." In absence of usually, I assumed that would be understood because its common sense. I don't see the point of using wishy washy language when we all know there are no absolutes.

You said that enomis reads genuine because scum would not post the reads he did. That is a generalization regarding what scum would generally do/don't. You did not explain why enomis-scum would not do that in this certain situation.

Except I did. I said it even before you and I started having a conversation about it.

Enomis came in and didn't even try to push the alternatives as scum, even as a compromise. It's not suspicious to push one of these people as scum; it's very safe, since all of the popular targets are on the block right now. He's not fabricating reads because scum fabricating reads isn't likely to fabricate those reads at that precise time.

[Amrun]

So you show up with a bigass wall post after Wisdom calls you out and you manage to fencesit on all 3 other people in the lynch pool.

And you forgot to mention me over someone like SAFETYDANCE.

I reallllly am not seeing it.

Yeah but that's why he's town, probably.

Also said he was the opposite of opportunistic, etc.

[Amrun]

Yes, I did explain it -- and ap was using it as a reason to SCUM read him.

See, this is your issue. You don't even stop to think before posting something like that post. Why, as scum, would I need a FAKE reason to town read someone I already know is town?

You don't think at all about how realistic the motivations you ascribe to people are. Man how I wish you were scum.

[Amrun]

Hey guess what also doesn't make sense? Buddying enomis. WHY would I do that, as scum? Lol

[Amrun]

Hey guess what also doesn't make sense? Buddying enomis. WHY would I do that, as scum? Lol

Because you want him to vote Safety over you.
Safety might or might not be your partner; if he is you gain credit for lynching scum and you make him trust you more. If he isn't, you'll have to deal with it but at least you will have lynched town.

I guess I see that. I still wouldn't buddy enomis here as scum, because it seems like a really dumb thing to do. Enomis is likely to turn on me no matter what, and enomis was my best chance to not be lynched today. Actively attempting to derail the wagon in the next best candidate is really not conducive to staying alive.

And as scum, I'd have reasons why enomis is town coming out of my ears because I know he's town in that situation. Your position there simply makes no sense at all.


@mollie: you seriously mean to say that you don't think "Do you think it's a conspiracy?" is not a leading question? Lol

P-edit: maybe because I'm not terribly interested in being town read HMMM? I'm not home, and I'm not on my computer, and I'm not doing it on my phone.

[Amrun]

Safety:Null

Did i miss anyone?

Oh ya AP:

How is this not INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS to anyone else?

Remembers SD is in the game and chooses not to comment on him because he (apparently) has not found any SD content interesting.

FORGETS IM IN THE GAME and "lol fake edit - AP could be town or scum IDK "

Its like a perfect parallel of scum-Tierce play. Lurk, post walls when called out, and be absolutely god-awful at looking town.

His last post in the qt yesterday was about you. I am not sure what conclusions to draw from that.

[Amrun]

and enomis was my best chance to not be lynched today. Actively attempting to derail the wagon in the next best candidate is really not conducive to staying alive.

Safety
Safety
You know Safety?
Yes.
Safety is your counterwagon, not enomis.
Cut the bullshit.

Now he is. Before that, it was always most likely to be enomis. Read the winds.

[Amrun]

How is this not INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS to anyone else?

Remembers SD is in the game and chooses not to comment on him because he (apparently) has not found any SD content interesting.

FORGETS IM IN THE GAME and "lol fake edit - AP could be town or scum IDK "

I'll tell you why this is town.
Do you know what scum who realized they forgot AP in their reads would do?
They would go up in the list and add AP somewhere inbetween.
They would never go "oh I forgot AP, let's add the read now".

I thought saying scum would never do x or y was scummy?

[Amrun]

Wisdom, that's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard. Lol. You really can't pull your own head out of your ass, can you? Regardless, it was never a scum tell to begin with, but saying that I did it when I HAD specifically referred to enomis and that you didn't when you didn't and also used the word "never" is lol.

@AP: Yeah, enomis. I hadn't fully decided which of these I was going to vote, though I did lean sd.

Seeing as how no one yet has gotten towncred for challenging, AND how the challenge pool was agreed upon yesterday, why would challenging give me towncred, exactly?

[Amrun]

Please explain that tell now, Wisdom.

[Amrun]

Nobody Special (6) - Majiffy, SafetyDance, Wisdom, Elyse, Grimgroove, AngryPidgeon
Wisdom (1) - Venmar
AngryPidgeon (0) -
Venmar (0) -

Not Voting (5) - enomis, pirate mollie, Nobody Special, Amrun

This is the actual wagon that lynched NS, so I'll start here, but that's not the limitation of who interacted with the wagon/slot.

StrangerCoug (6) -

enomis

,

Venmar

,

Majiffy

,

pirate mollie

, Grimgroove, Nobody Special
Grimgroove (4) - AngryPidgeon, Wisdom, Elyse,

StrangerCoug

Majiffy (2) -

Amrun

,

SafetyDance

One of {AP/Elyse} scum, probably NS scum.

and where did everybody run off to I see people posting in other games but not this one. where is amrun she is the one who was all like "ack! ack! ack! don't end the day I am not throooooough!"

Yes.

This game got way too quiet. Way too many people sitting back and lurking when major discussion is going on.

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

Woah ok superdefensive.

---

Don't like that Amrun doesn't have time to be active in the game but has plenty of time to come in and lolhammer.

NS/Wisdom/AP are a great group to pick from for scum. Would have preferred lynching SD first, though.

VOTE: AP

Anyway.
enomis/Safety/Amrun/Elyse.
With Grimgroove or NS if any of them is wrong.
We lynch NS and we have the jaguars and the monkeys fight.
Are there disagreements on this?

I want this answered by everyone that is not in those four.

Take Enomis out, replace with NS, and we're on the same page.

Despite the fact that when NS was in the pool, Majiffy went for AP over NS without really mentioning NS, overall interactions indicate Majiffy town pretty well. I already had a townread on him, after some point yesterday, but I was still a little unsure. But now I feel pretty good putting Majiffy in the town pool.

Getting through this thread is like nails on a chalkboard at the moment. Will be more productive. Eventually.

If we're doing this soon, I have nfi about the deadline and without reading the last few pages, I'd be willing to challenge the Blues, Silvers or Purples at the moment.

Notable because contains NS (purples).

Yeah, yeah, prod received. I was struggling to read any game I was in over the the weekend.

I've been trying to catch up. I'm on page 38 which was like, only 6 hours ago and there's another 7 pages to go? All I see is like 40+ pages of egos floating around trying to bash the others into submission. Do you know how hard that is to sift through and analyse? >.<

Like fuuu.

Lmao @ Magiffy. You always read me as scum. In every single game. Love your epic skillz <3

Way I see it now I can see the scum team being Magiffy + NS + Venmar/Wisdom/AP + Enomis/Amrun/Elyse. Which probably isn't a good thing that I can't fit PM in there but she's a town read who could be coasting I suppose.

So from that vote pool, I can always get behind an NS lynch.

Vote: NS

I'm conflicted about this vote, but in the end, I've decided it's scummy.

a) Why would it be weird that he can't fit PM in there? It's literally like he was trying to fit EVERYONE in there, which is the opposite of what town would do.

b) Despite the fact that Venmar, Wisdom, and AP were all up for lynch, he plopped a lazy vote on NS (when there wasn't a real NS wagon). He doesn't try to determine their alignments at all; he isn't interested. So this looks like a bus vote to me.


I'm not going to bother with Wisdom's, because he interacted with the wagon several times. It was a safe place to compromise vote. I have a strong town read on Wisdom, blah blah.

Fuck you, honestly. I don't know why v/la is such a fucking difficult concept for people to grasp. Maybe if I was irresponsible and just didn't post for over a week people would fucking understand.

Trying to paint my infrequent phone posting as scummy when it's public knowledge I'm not around for this time frame is scummy as fuck.

Where did this come from? I didn't see anyone saying you were scummy for infrequent posting (I might have missed it). You aren't even posting infrequently.

@Wisdom
Amrun is probably town.

I think it's Grim/NS/AP/{Safety Dance, enomis}

Early suspicion of NS.

My strongest scumreads right now are Amrun, Elyse and AngryPidgeon. Those three are followed by SafetyDance and enomis.

So Grim's scumreads are Amrun, Elyse, AP, {Safety, enomis}
and

Nobody Special I think is town, his last post seemed genuine enough to me. Instead of pointing to a random other person in the other lynchpool and try tog et this person lynched instead of himself,h e admits to not having any clear reads. I can relate.

NS is town.
Now AP comes in and says this:

and I'd rather lynch NS than Venmar.

And suddenly,

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

Bam. Slaps a vote on NS. Wtf? He goes with his scumread to possibly lead a wagon on someone he had a townread on.

This is a good note, but in hindsight here, I felt like it was scummy because it's like associative tells before a flip, y'know? But then...

Alright, so before I was a PoE scumread (fifth in the list actually) and now you're trying to discredit someone's townread on me? It's definitely not because AP is trying to get people to scumread me, right?

Alright so basically Wisdom is either easily misled town or scum trying to save his buddy AP. I'm thinking the former.

And Grim is scummy af.

So it's probably AP/enomis/Grim/Safety. That's my bet.
Other possibilities are AP/enomis/NS/Wisdom, AP/enomis/Safety/Wisdom or AP/NS/Safety/Wisdom.

This, too -- NS dropping into her secondary radar -- had me leaning scum.

I'm at work posting from my phone but I'm fucking pissed off at AP.

The fact you had to bring your real life into this is fucking messed up. I found out my grandmother died last night. Did I mention that? No. Why? Because I'm not a whiny baby and I can play this game by setting aside my personal life.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nobody Special

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me. NS/Grim doesn't make sense together but Im pretty sure one is scum.

But then she says NS/Grim DON'T make sense together as a scumteam, which is the OPPOSITE of what I was thinking, and isn't at all indicative of someone using a scumbuddy to sully a townie's reputation. So it's either genuine or she's trying to set up suspicion on Grim over NS -- the former is indicated, but given the lynch pool mechanic, not conclusive.

Yeah because apparently the best strategy for me as scum would be to sheep you. Just stop.

Then why are you doing it? I see no town motivation for it.

I'm not sheeping you.

enomis and Safety are basically conf scum to me.

Ok since you claim you're not just echoing me.
Can you explain why they are confscum to you?

PoE. I have townreads on Amrun, Majiffy, Mollie, you, and AP.

@Grim
Explain your vote on NS after AP voted him.

Also you are being so wishy-washy with your NS stance. One minute he's town, the next he's scum, the next he's a compromise lynch, the next he's useless. Remember what I said about NS/Grim not working? Yeah, that's out the window since he's obviously just going with the popular opinion.

NS/Grim/Safety/enomis

There you have it folks.

Quoting this simply because it's a good point, and I agree.

No. You're acting like NS flipped town. He didn't.

If NS flips town then YOU are the fourth scum. You're acting like you know he'll flip town and are setting me up.

But these, here, are the kicker. I don't see a scumbuddy of NS saying this, knowing he would flip scum. Elyse is town.


Grimgroove has been all over the map with NS. He addressed him for the first time when he was put into the lynch pool to call him "lurkylurk," essentially null. This is reasonable. Then NS posts and he calls NS town. VERY QUICKLY, he turns around and votes NS with very little explanation.

VOTE: Nobody Special

Even if only to spur him towards more content. He can't stay in hiding forever.

Don't have an especially strong townread on any of the four anymore. AngryPidgeon is my preference, but not enough to put him at L-1 already. Elyse and amrun on his wagon aren't exactly reassuring either.

If he doesn't provide content he's the scummiest of the bunch and should be lynched for it.

As soon as he does provide content, I'll evaluate him based on that.

I don't see how it kills "the purpose". The purpose is to make him deliver content. Tell me how my vote or my reasons for it are standing in the way of achieving this?

To me, this reeks of "waiting for my buddy to give me an excuse to town read him." At the time, this didn't register to me but in hindsight...

Faked it to see reactions, I actually only put AP at L-1.

In mountainous, you gotta figure shit out somehow eh?

Vote: Wisdom

Welcome to the leaning town pile, AP.

Ok, so I missed it.

But Amrun seemed to believe it was an argument?

NO NEED TO BE A DICK BY THE WAY!

So Venmar is indeed town now. I agree that such a maneuver is a very townish thing to do, and his conclusions of what happened are normal, logical and from whaty I can see, correct.

So it's basically down to you and Nobody Special out of this lynchpool.

Let's wait for Nobody Special a bit.

He has given townreads now to Venmar and AP. So he says it's beteween NS and Wisdom.

Meh.

VOTE: Wisdom

Surprise! He tries to go for Wisdom first.

Fine, I'll take you AtE.
I obviously did not read your game again, I might as well start reading the Bible, but pff, I thought about it.
I'd feel bad about letting you slide once again in case you do end up being scum, but I'd feel worse if you're actual town having put a lot of effort in this game and letting Nobody Special being lurksack lazy scum with 11 posts live on. Somehow doesn't seem fair.
So yeah, congrats, your AtE worked.
But I still think your play vis-à-vis Amrun has been very dubious. I hope you agree she is the next one to lynch and won't be throwing around any wild scenraios again just to make her seem town somehow. She is obvscum.

VOTE: Nobody Special

This is

L-1

.

I do think last words from Nobody Special are in order.

Finally votes NS after getting into it with me/Wisdom over dumb stuff. NOTE: HE CALLS NS SCUM HERE

Elyse calls him out for his shifting NS read and his response is:

@Grim
Explain your vote on NS after AP voted him.

Also you are being so wishy-washy with your NS stance. One minute he's town, the next he's scum, the next he's a compromise lynch, the next he's useless. Remember what I said about NS/Grim not working? Yeah, that's out the window since he's obviously just going with the popular opinion.

I'm not wishy-washy.
He is a complete nullread. Is this surprising to you? He posted 11 times in total. The kind moderator just told is there more than a hundred posts a day in this game. How you can have a clear read on him is beyond me, but that fact you're so certain he's scum, could actually mùean he is and you're bussing your useless partner for some towncred.

It's true I haven't been very fixed to my vote. That mainly had to do with my reads on the other people in the pool, especially Wisdom. Nobody Special has always been a target of compromise. I called his inactivity scummy, yes, but I guess what I should have said was "anti-town". AP then proceeded to tell me it's NS's meta anyway, so not much is to be gotten from that. Whenever I had a scumread in the lynchpool, I voted that read. Whenever I felt there was a lack of alternatives, I voted NS.

This is also where I stand now. I've got strong townreads on AP and Venmar. Wisdom I'm still not sure, but I let him AtE get to me and see where it gets us. Somehow I'm feeling more confident about him town again, but it goes in waves. It depends on him acting dickish towards me and bringing up wacky scenarios. I have the impression the feeling is mutual.

He says he didn't vote a town read but he called NS town shortly before voting for him for the first time. He says he didn't have a scum read, despite calling NS scum. He has to go out of his way to explain that NS was nothing but a compromise vote, ever, because it doesn't really make much sense.

Grim is an NS buddy. I'll bet my life on it, and at this point, I pretty much want to die because no one will take me seriously until I do.

WHEN I FLIP TOWN, DO NOT FORGOT THAT GRIM IS NS' BUDDY. DO NOT FORGET IT. KILL HIM.

AP's interactions with the NS wagon mirror mine, so obviously we thought about the same on it. He's town for this and other reasons.

I need to look at the people off the wagon, but this is enough for one post.

[Amrun]

Running out of time; bear with me as this part gets shorter (maybe you'll be happy with that!)

Venmar criticized me for going after NS as a lurker, but didn't really mention him while alive. This is consistent with his vendetta against Wisdom and his scumread on AP. I think he's more likely town than scum, overall.

enomis didn't interact with the wagon at all, but he's probably town.

I don't know what to do with ns. in new scum in town I trolleytracked on him to the point of complete stupidity, even sheeped my strongest town read onto him. he is hard to read and I don't understand other people's measurement for reading him like what is it that you are seeing

I realize its a bit late, but what did you think NS was going to flip, Mollie?
Who are your top 2 townreads?

did not know how he was going to flip. I think he was bussed cos ns stfu and didn't post for the rest of the day.

I already gave a list of my town reads. you, majiffy venny and groovey kid possible town read on wis

piratemollie did nothing but fencesit on NS, and afterwards, says he was bussed but does not actually analyze anything. Vague suspicions like this are always scummy, but especially in this circumstance.

All of her votes are lazy and poorly reasoned, if at all. I leaned scum on her day 1, and have waffled a bit, but I've settled into a solid scumread on this slot.


So, in summation, my picks for remaining scum are Grim/SDslot/piratemollie. Perhaps one of these is wrong and one of my townreads is bad, but I'll be shocked if more than one of these three turns out to be town.

Okay, lynch me now byeeee


p-edit: He's not; that's the counter evidence to him being town (ie evidence for him being scum). But given the other evidence, and how NS himself interacted with Majiffy, overall I put that slot town.

[Amrun]

Majiffy's vote ISN'T that different, except he also interacted with the day in other ways and I overall think he's town. Also, he suspected NS since very early on and called NS straight scum, whereas SD didn't really do that.

I didn't say scum never fake predict things. I just don't think Elyse was doing it, in this case. I think she is town, for this and for other reasons I've already said.

[Amrun]

@AP: Here are things I've previously said about enomis that I still believe.

To put it simply, that post was not engineered with a survival mindset. I'm pretty sure it's just his reads, and they happen to be fencesitty. That's how he's been all game, and it's weirded me out, but re-reading, his reads have progressed in a way that makes sense, given that he is as cautious as that.

I opened our qt the way I did for a reason. I wanted to see if enomis was interested in gaining a town read from me.
At first it appeared that he was, but it's now abundantly clear that he's more interested in determining if I am scum than being town read by me. That's what town does.

P-edit: yes USUALLY. This is not the first,'or the last, time that ns has done nothing at all as scum. That's why his meta is so successful. He's very good at being unreadable.

@wisdom: I think I see what the confusion is, then. I never said "always" or "never." When I said anything at all, I said "usually." In absence of usually, I assumed that would be understood because its common sense. I don't see the point of using wishy washy language when we all know there are no absolutes.

You said that enomis reads genuine because scum would not post the reads he did. That is a generalization regarding what scum would generally do/don't. You did not explain why enomis-scum would not do that in this certain situation.

Except I did. I said it even before you and I started having a conversation about it.

Enomis came in and didn't even try to push the alternatives as scum, even as a compromise. It's not suspicious to push one of these people as scum; it's very safe, since all of the popular targets are on the block right now. He's not fabricating reads because scum fabricating reads isn't likely to fabricate those reads at that precise time.

In addition, when looking over his iso in the process of compiling my reads, I found his early push on Elyse both good and genuine. Sure, none of these are like ... town slips. I just think he's town. Period.

My LEAST sure town read is probably Elyse, if you are interested.

[Amrun]

I've had her as weak scum since Day 1, and only near the end of the day did I decide she felt marginally better (like, maybe null). I kind of wish I'd had the time/energy/not gotten distracted and pushed her harder day 1, but alas. Now, she is my second strongest scum read after Grim.

Ironically, SD slot is the weakest, but oh well.

[Amrun]

I think the main reason I haven't really pushed pirate mollie more is that I lack "reasons" that might convince other people. So I'm pleasantly surprised to see support here.

[Amrun]

Ergh, sorry for triple posting, but maybe later when I have more time, I will try to compile something on her, because I can do it if I really try but I've been so busy (v/la for so long, plus still generally busy) that I just haven't had time to do anything but react to what's in front of me.

p-edit: Yeah, I have since Day 1. I got distracted by Majiffy or I would have pushed her harder. I has a sadz.

p-edit 2: Come on, now, that has OBVIOUS scum motivation! And it's not like she was feeling pressure or the need to not butt heads with people.

[Amrun]

Yeah, but that's why it's weird. Like, if she read you as town, what's the town motive to even do that?

p-edit: this post to AP

[Amrun]

Every five seconds she goes "oh, I had a freak out moment about him but then it was okay," though.

[Amrun]

Was she scum or town there?

[Amrun]

Yeah, you're right, re-reading that. I thought she retracted it but she actually didn't.

p-edit: I think she has, though not using the exact word "freak out," but I may be wrong.

[Amrun]

I still think majiffy is town but I don't like how he texts me to "post more content" when he has not even been around all day. I told him last night I was a bit mafia-ed out and I don't like being told how I should prioritize my games but I am not ready to eat the paranoia flakes on him yet.

This is what I was thinking of.

Mollie, please address my previous post.

fuck this shit if it is the post I just responded to I am responding in the order that I read them

VOTE: amrun

hell no you are trying to manipulate the situ where there are a bunch of people posting and trying to make it look like I am deliberately ignoring you

This post still bothers me.

a) I am not even in the lynch pool at this point, which shows how unconcerned mollie actually is about the game state.

b) It shows a heightened sense of self-awareness and over defensiveness, because her portrayal of what is actually happening is not even close to reality.

c) Mollie never really corrects this and engages in the game state, just fencesits galore.

p-edit:

LOL

I didn't avoid the NS wagon. I actually started it, though eventually unvoted in order to vote for AP. Still, with a little less lazy and more unique thought, that could have been turned into something. But it wasn't -- that's the laziest, most opportunistic vote. He doesn't spend ANY time on his other scum "read," which doesn't make sense as scum with me in ANY universe, and he doesn't even have enough scumreads. If he was just like "I'm voting Amrun because I want to live!" then that would be one thing, but he has to fake a scumread badly. That's a wrap, folks.

The only thing that has any legitimacy at all is trying to take "credit," for the wagon, but that's not how I intended that post and it's not inconsistent with anything I ever posted. I supported the wagon the whole way through, even though I openly thought he had a better chance of flipping town than scum.

[Amrun]

SafetyDance is obvtown.

It was. My bad. So forget that point.

@Wisdom, I've got a legal pad that I made two pages of notes on. I use red for scummy things and black for townie things.

And? He's asking you to post them.

[Amrun]

The more you tell me to unvote the one who you initiated this challenge for the more my vote won't go anywhere. It's just hypocritical.

And mollie gets false townreads all the time, it can happen.

there are 3 players on here that I can pretty much guarantee that I can read. majiffy is 1 of them.

there were extenuating circumstances in the gonzo game for me voting the way that I did. it resulted in me probably never playing with buldey again and it makes me sad cos I feel like I lost a friend.

I still think majiffy is town. it freaks me out when he vote parks and then disappears cos this is what he did in the only game where he managed to sneak past me as scum. there are 6 players on this site I expect a lot from in order to townread them and he is one of them cos I have shared enough meta knowledge with them that they could get past my meta reads. majiffy is at the top of the list.

Explain this discrepancy, please.

[Amrun]

Every five seconds she goes "oh, I had a freak out moment about him but then it was okay," though.

put up or stfu

and that was not a freak out moment. when I freak out you will know it

I already QUOTED what I meant. But thanks try again later.

[Amrun]

No, you DON'T engage in the game state. I don't know how you could misread that because not only is it clear, but no one would say you engaged in the game state because you blatantly did not.

And no, I never actually hedged on my read of ns. I was very open with it; I said he was more likely town, but town dead weight. I voted on the wagon first, then unvoted, and offered to hammer though AP went first.

[Amrun]

And besides, the point wasn't that you fencesat on the wagon as much as the next day you were like "oh, he was bussed!" without actually proposing who bussed him then OR even now.

[Amrun]

WAIT A MINUTE

Did you seriously just suggest you DID NOT hedge your read on NS?

like

real talk?

[Amrun]

The more you tell me to unvote the one who you initiated this challenge for the more my vote won't go anywhere. It's just hypocritical.

And mollie gets false townreads all the time, it can happen.

there are 3 players on here that I can pretty much guarantee that I can read. majiffy is 1 of them.

there were extenuating circumstances in the gonzo game for me voting the way that I did. it resulted in me probably never playing with buldey again and it makes me sad cos I feel like I lost a friend.

I still think majiffy is town. it freaks me out when he vote parks and then disappears cos this is what he did in the only game where he managed to sneak past me as scum. there are 6 players on this site I expect a lot from in order to townread them and he is one of them cos I have shared enough meta knowledge with them that they could get past my meta reads. majiffy is at the top of the list.

Explain this discrepancy, please.

I do can not give a 100% clearance of majiffy without mod clearance. I have no role to do that I am going by what we have shared in the game he reads as town

but I want more from him.

let's talk about your major hedging of ns whom you said you could read. but I bet you don't wanna

Then why did you say you could guarantee your read of Majiffy?

And you're going to have to show where I hedged my read of NS first. I already showed where you did.

p-edit: Why is the word freak out significant to you? It isn't to me.

[Amrun]

Once again... you cannot lynch wisdom today.

...

[Amrun]

Once again... you cannot lynch wisdom today.

...

What if I try really really hard?

Even then.

What is your opinion on 2-scum teams?

[Amrun]

Same question to mollie. What is your opinion on 2-scum teams?

[Amrun]

Nooo, ap, i wanna lynch qwintz

[Amrun]

That isn't how you apply that to mafia, but whatever. I had a particular interaction with the wagon, yes. If you really think that's how I'd interact with the wagon as scum with NS, then lol, but there's nothing I can say to you about that so I'm not going to.

You're ignoring everything I've said to you, though. STILL haven't said who was bussing ns.

[Amrun]

What is your read on qwints?

I don't know it isn't like a player subbed into a slot that I can accurately read.

you are steering wis

eta: I am out for 20 to 30 minutes

No, actually, asking for a read on a player is not "steering." You should have one by now. You seem to only be reading posts related to you.

[Amrun]

I didn't avoid the NS wagon. I actually started it, though eventually unvoted in order to vote for AP.

This is a lie. Amrun never voted for NS.

l2read

[Amrun]

oh wait

haha

i didn't actually

my bad

[Amrun]

xD

I just read my iso like three times.

I could have SWORN I did. Sorry, qwintz. looooooooool

p-edit: Why do you say nothing productive has happened in 10 pages? That's just not at all true. LOTS has changed in 10 pages.

[Amrun]

What is your read on qwints?

I don't know it isn't like a player subbed into a slot that I can accurately read.

you are steering wis

eta: I am out for 20 to 30 minutes

No, actually, asking for a read on a player is not "steering." You should have one by now. You seem to only be reading posts related to you.

and I asked you for one on ns in which you hedged and are now trying to say it is not applicable. try again

everything I say you try to paint as scummy. and you are trying to bring up what I said on d1 as scummy when really it isn't.

not to mention you ignore your own hedging as scummy. okay

What are you talking about? How can you ask me for a read on a flipped player? That's ridiculous.

No, everything you say is not scummy, but there are scummy things you have said, which I have pointed out.

I have asked you SEVERAL questions that you have just BLATANTLY IGNORED. (To recap, the most important ones that you keep ignoring are: who was bussing ns? why did you guarantee you could read majiffy if you can't?)

Do you expect me to call myself scummy? Like ... what? You can interpret my actions how you want, and so can anyone else, but my flip will not go well for you because you will look terrible afterwards, and I think that's why you've been so hesitant to REALLY push me today and instead just choose to argue with me, just now voting for me.

[Amrun]

Majiffy, please address the recent happenings of the thread.

[Amrun]

When I flip town, what will change for you?

[Amrun]

Why?

[Amrun]

Who is the scumteam?

[Amrun]

And, you should have associative tells on everyone, everywhere at this point of the game... Just saying.

[Amrun]

So you really have a scumread on 3/4 of the lynch pool and you've been pressuring exactly no one?

Jesus, Majiffy.

[Amrun]

I expected lot more than that, Majiffy.

I

had to badger

you

into pressuring ME more. That's like ... not really how this game usually works. I think you're town, and I'm about to die so I have to entrust the rest of this game to you, and I'm not really feeling full of the confidence atm. Very few people are really trying to look at the game as a whole picture, and you, who most people read as town, are doing NOTHING AT ALL. Like, seriously, nothing. You're equally as useless as SD was.

p-edit: Jesus fucking shit. Just hammer me and put me out of my misery, AP. I've given my reads and I'm happy with them. I've done what I wanted to do, and if people don't listen to me after I'm dead and my alignment is confirmed, then it's their own fucking faults.

[Amrun]

Just now, and several times I've had to ask you for my read on me, thinking you suspected me but not really knowing. That's the opposite of feeling pressure.

And I don't doubt at all that you have more going on in your head than SD did. But you're doing JACK SHIT in the thread, which makes you ultimately just as useless. Please try harder.

[Amrun]

You put down a reasonless vote, and said nothing about the rest of the gamestate. I had to prompt you to state the reason. I had to prompt you to give your reads and your general reactions to the SIGNIFICANT happenings in the thread.

I use this as an example, because how much you pressure me in particular is mostly irrelevant. I'm worried that you're going to continue placing stupid votes that no one cares about.

It's annoying because I know that you are actually thinking about them, but it doesn't matter if no one knows or cares what you are thinking about. I just re-read the game today, and let me tell you -- you are not actually doing ANYTHING in thread beyond early day 1. Most of day 1 you proxied your posts through mollie, even. You are doing less than you think you are.

[Amrun]

AP I feel your paranoias!!

But I think it's because mollie is scum, obviously.

[Amrun]

No, it's not about getting into arguments. Avoiding those can definitely be good. It's about posting things besides votes, which you're not doing much of without prompting.

If you want to argue semantics about the word "badgering," sure. The point is that you are mostly just voting and answering the odd question to you here and there. You're not voting with reasons; you're not even answering questions with particular purpose. You ARE thinking about the game (I think, anyway), but there's precious little evidence of that, and it's not a good thing for the town.

I am asking you to use your status as widely read town in a game without nightkills to lay on the grease a little bit more, and shake things up, because I know you're capable, instead of throwing down lazy votes and walking away from the thread for a day or two, coming back and tossing down another one. I don't expect you to take this seriously until after I flip, or maybe even at all, but I feel obligated to say it.