Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Wisdom]

Hello

[Wisdom]

^lol

[Wisdom]

enomis are you going to copy everything I post?

[Wisdom]

hi fellow parrot

[Wisdom]

^wrong account

[Wisdom]

but hi mollie

[Wisdom]

Uncapitalized "hi guys" followed by "!" is always mollie

[Wisdom]

Nope, it isn't.

[Wisdom]

You should really read the rules

[Wisdom]

trololol

[Wisdom]

Hint: Rule 9

[Wisdom]

Say that you are certain I am scum and you want to lynch me
Your team has to challenge mine
This will make you, Majiffy, myself and NS eligible to be lynched.

Also you do not know if Majiffy is town or scum (assuming you yourself are town), in case you didn't get that. That's why it's nothing like polygamist.

[Wisdom]

I was not aware we would not know our partner's alignment either

[Wisdom]

Yeah, derp. It did say it in the queue summary that we are not guaranteed to share alignment. Guess I missed that.

[Wisdom]

Yup

[Wisdom]

I knew it because it said it in my role pm.
I checked it again to see why I missed it before.

[Wisdom]

Its useless, just say that you suspect AP or something

[Wisdom]

Whatever

FoS: Amrun, since suggesting such things usually comes from scum going for cred.

[Wisdom]

No

[Wisdom]

Less useless questions, Amrun. You can find that out with a click.

[Wisdom]

Haven't played elsewhere.
This type of questions are for the Road to Rome though, and I won't be answering any more.

[Wisdom]

Isn't it convenient to try and call me a noob because I am calling you scum?

Better reaction than I had hoped for.

[Wisdom]

I don't know, do I? You'll have to check that for yourself if you think it means anything.

But you don't; you're simply trying to call me a noob to lessen the strength of my argument.

[Wisdom]

You'll excuse me if I don't answer whatever scum ask me, kay?

[Wisdom]

And a tip; instead of subtly implying things, go ahead and state it if you think I'm scum. Maybe it will make you look a bit better than you do know.

pedit: There you go again, implying newbness. I so love being right.

[Wisdom]

now*

[Wisdom]

But refusing to answer shows some image-consciousness that is interesting.

Then you should define "interesting" better, because in my eyes you're implying things here.

[Wisdom]

So you

were

calling me scum.

[Wisdom]

So what basically happened is;

who is this noob I have never played with before that accuses me? Let's call him a noob so nobody will pay any attention to what he says.
He's avoiding my questions now.. let's call him scum for that.
Actually no, it's not enough to call him scum, let's go back to implying he's a noob and call him jerktown.

[Wisdom]

You implied it, it's the same thing. And you implied it right after I accused you.

[Wisdom]

I don't know, do you think it's serious?

[Wisdom]

Because they're bad questions. If I posted that, it was probably serious.

[Wisdom]

Elyse, what is your opinion on Amrun's suggestions?
Do you agree we should fake-vote etc?

[Wisdom]

being too pro-town

Nope.
If you think your suggestions make you pro-town, think again. Scum are going to go for this exact behavior in the beginning of such a game.


And stop lying, you implied I am a noob and you implied I'm scum.

[Wisdom]

Also, fwiw; I would attack you the same way if I was scum. I am not hesistant in such matters. This is a really bad reason to townread me.

[Wisdom]

hesitant*

[Wisdom]

inb4 she goes
"I have a scummy, you're all noobs"
I've seen that happening

[Wisdom]

yabbut your arguments are really dumb when you are scum

Did that prevent me from winning last time? xD

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I don't agree. That suggestion sounds to me like directing a vengekill, basically allowing scum to direct the challenges and therefore the lynches whatever way they want.

Also, how do you know that you're the most experienced? It was clear from your question about my experience that you don't know how much experience others have; and as you said the experience in MS isn't the only experience. So..?

[Wisdom]

Oh nevermind. I'll take a wild guess and say that 95 means that you're judging experience by the joindates.

[Wisdom]

@enomis
And that matters how? If scum are able to blend in and become obvtown, they can make people sheep em.
Then if we have followed this plan, we'll just do what the majority wants, which in this case will be affected by said people.

[Wisdom]

SafetyDance, there are no votes this game (at least yet). Read Rule 9.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom convinces those 4 people to sheep him and lynches B.
It's all about how able scum are.
If able scum were able to win every time, we wouldn't be playing. Why should we follow plans that make it easier for them to win?

[Wisdom]

lynches A*

[Wisdom]

Replace "able" with "capable" there

[Wisdom]

Dude.
Say your pair and another pair have four town in them.
Say I am scum and I know that.
I convince people to sheep me and make those two pairs challenge each other.
Boom, instant mislynch, AND lynchfodder for future days.

[Wisdom]

Blame me instead, my plan

was

to fool Nacho and win that way.

[Wisdom]

You should also FoS me for copying your idea to avi-change

[Wisdom]

Let me officially add a FoS: Elyse too, since she apparently came in to answer a bad question, made no analysis when she got the answer, and disappeared.

[Wisdom]

to ask a bad question*

[Wisdom]

She did not do something townie. Scum are the ones who will try to suggest such things to gain early towncred. I know I definitely would as scum.

Re: your "meta change" thing; first of all this is not The Road to Rome, second of all I don't play the same in all my games, and third of all there has been a considerate amount of time since then (this you noted)

When you say that you don't see me as town, do you see me as scum?

[Wisdom]

Enomis is likely scum

Don't agree here, wanna help me?

[Wisdom]

mollie Im starting to scumread you, stop fluffing

[Wisdom]

How do you get probably town from that?

pedit:
Why do you want to talk to Majiffy?

[Wisdom]

And why do you have to wait for that before commenting on everything else?
(@mollie)

[Wisdom]

And...
FoS: Venmar since this post just now gave me mad scumvibes.
What AP said about experience etc. weren't even part of his case. You're trying too hard to shoot it down.
And you're asking "Why does it matter" on a "Why does it matter" post? Wtf?

[Wisdom]

To be fair, Wisdom was coming off very arrogant and very hard to deal and talk with, so the outrage is very understandable because I can relate.

Tell me this;
Let's say I am arrogant and hard to deal with.
Isn't it a great opportunity for scum to

fake

outrage on such a player? If they don't fake it on such a player, where will they fake it? On players that it would be less believable?

[Wisdom]

Personally I didn't even feel any outrage in her posts. Only frustration about who she considers a noob scumreading her off her first posts.

[Wisdom]

Finally, since you're claiming to know what AP does and doesn't; does scum-AP make sub-par cases?

[Wisdom]

It was a very bad thing to say? So you agree that more experience necessarily means more skill? If that's so we should all just sheep the player with the oldest joindate and do nothing else, yes?

[Wisdom]

Why do you want to talk to Majiffy?

I want you to read this question slowly and then come back and tell me why it is stupid

mollie, you said this towards the beginning of the game too (that you want to talk to Majiffy first), and it's stupid. You don't have to talk to Majiffy first before doing other things.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom is OMGUSing, lolololololoolol.

Now YOU'RE trying too hard.

Not to mention, these kind of stuff just make my scumread bigger

[Wisdom]

Amrun was saying she's the most experienced though, and she was using it as a point to why what she says is pro-town, what I say isn't, and therefore why we should follow/sheep her.
AP called her out on that, saying that experience means nothing in that regard and we should not do such a thing.
By saying that what AP did was bad, you basically agree with Amrun; namely that we should just follow what the "more experienced" player suggests.

Also please do challange me, will be so fun

[Wisdom]

Are you just going to FoS anyone that disagrees with you?

Nope; there are other ways to disagree than call me scum and hard-defend Amrun, with points that don't even make sense.
But since we're on the subject:

I agree with Venmar's post. Here's a townread for you!

Why do you townread everyone that you agree with?

And asking "Why does it matter?" when AP included vote tags in his case against is very valid. It seemed like he was bumping up his case to make it seem more solid that it really was.

What? AP asked Amrun what do votetags matter (just like I said that they're useless exactly after she made her first post), and Venmar quoted his "why does it matter" and asked why does it matter. I don't understand that.

I find this similar to your previous argument to Amrun scum as well. "Amrun is outraged." "Town get outraged." "Scum want to seem town." "Amrun is faking outrage." Why isn't she just a little annoyed with your tone? Why is she faking it?

It has already been explained; she changed tones too quickly, she went from noob to scum to town too quickly, and her "outrage" did not even seem like an outrage, but more like frustration. The point is that she cannot be called town for that, as scum could easily fake it in such a case.

This is just a really bad conclusion. Doesn't make any sense with what Venmar said.

You need to reread then, because that's exactly what Venmar said. Read my post after that too.

[Wisdom]

It's not stupid to talk to your partner; it's stupid to wait to do that before doing anything else.
You now are doing things, so whatevs

[Wisdom]

#92: Katsuki was town in that game; therefore, using it to argue that Amrun is scum is invalid. At most, it reinforces that you think she's arrogant, which tells me little else.

Tell me I didn't read this
Did you seriously just say that my "omg she will tell us she has a scummy now" was an argument for her being scum?

[Wisdom]

#96: Context from the OP tells me there are no vengekills. Do you even think your posts through?

Are you even able to read what I'm typing?
I said that the plan about directing the challenges and therefore the lynches is similar to directing vengekills.
Didn't say there are vengekills in this game.

[Wisdom]

#143: pirate mollie didn't even pass judgment on how experience and skill correlate. The player who signed up for the site first should not be treated as God—I've been here since 2008 and I STILL think I could use some work on a few things.

Yeah that wasn't even directed at pirate mollie.
Seriously?

[Wisdom]

#148: No, she was not. And the post of hers contradicting you doesn't make me the new person to follow. I think I have some things that need work.

I'm one of the more experienced players in the game.

[quote="In post 94, Amrun I am one of the most experienced.
And it is just a basic fact. Sorry if that bothers you.
[/quote]

Yes, she did.

[Wisdom]

I disagree with you based on Wisdom's reactions to the suggestion

Also this is a very bad thing to do, and please stop doing it if you're town.
You cannot be certain of my alignment, so don't disagree with others based on what you think my alignment is.

[Wisdom]

#88: I'm baffled here. Wisdom says he'd do the exact same thing he's doing as SCUM!? What exactly is it, then, that doesn't make him scum?

The fact that I am town, maybe?

And—serious question open to everybody—why would anybody of any alignment say something like this?

So wait, you don't call me scum for that, you say that.. I don't have an alignment?

[Wisdom]

The rest don't need addressing, since if I'm reading right you pseudo-voted me for.. being a jerk?
(@SC)

[Wisdom]

I didn't call you scum or hard defend Amrun. So try again?

I was talking about Venmar. You asked me why I am FoSing him, remember?

I don't. I only have a townread on Venmar, and it's because he said exactly what I was thinking, and I know it's coming from a town perspective. Considering you FoS'd Amrun, me, and Venmar, and I only townread Venmar, your point is invalid.

Fair, but keep in mind that scum can express "town perspective" opinions too.

AP made it seem like Amrun was scummy for suggesting we format votes a certain way. Venmar asked what that mattered.

No, AP asked why it mattered. I don't see why you and Venmar want to discredit that and make it seem like it was a part of his case.

I know she's not town for that, but she's also not scum for it, which is what you were pushing for her suggestions at the beginning.

She is scum for her suggestions, because scum seek to make these suggestions. It's not about a "this is townie, she did it, she wants to do something townie, she's scum". It's about doing something that scum would do. There's a difference, find it.

Venmar said that just because a player is experienced does not mean you should sheep them.

As I already said, Venmar said that AP's calling out her on the experience thing was bad.
This means he disagrees that the experience thing was bullshit.
This means he agrees with what Amrun said about experience, namely that because she's one of the most experienced, we should follow her plan.
So, yeah, that's what he said.
You should also read 148, where I explained this.

[Wisdom]

There are, at most, three scum in this game

Yeah, I stopped reading here.
You're trying to make plans, yet you don't know the number of scum?
It is KNOWN how many scum there are.

I guess this makes you town though, even though I wouldn't put it past you to fake that towntell.

[Wisdom]

Then whose question/request were you answering? Nobody else said anything where this response would make sense to them.

Venmar. I even used the exact words he used. It was the post above mollie's.

[Wisdom]

No, she did not. She said she was ONE OF the most experienced. She did not claim to be the #1 most experienced, which your dropping "one of" implies. I shouldn't even be arguing semantics with you.

Does it matter if she said the most or one of the most? That's besides the point I was making.

[Wisdom]

And you cannot be certain of Amrun's unless she's scum with you, which is absurd since I don't think scum would want to stage a heated argument with one of their buddies off the bat.

That's true; do you see me stating that I disagree with people because of Amrun's reactions? Please don't do that.

[Wisdom]

And that's supposed to tell me what?

I don't know, what was the point of the question?
Amrun tried to say that she towntells me because I wouldn't argue with her as scum.
I told her that this is a bad reason to towntell me because I would do that as scum too.
And you're asking "why did you say that/what makes you town" or something, so I don't know what answer you really expect.

[Wisdom]

So how am I supposed to get a townread? Basically you are saying that scum tries to look town so anything townie can be scummy.

You can get townreads off things that have town motivation in them. Someone stating exactly what you have in your mind is not necessarily town motivated, even if you are town, because that someone might be scum trying to act like town.
Bottom line I'm just saying don't townread people just because they say something you agree with, because it's a common mistake.

[Wisdom]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

[Wisdom]

Amrun is not the person whose reactions I have been talking about.

You were talking about my reactions; I used it as a parallel to tell you that despite finding Amrun scum at the time, I don't let it influence my read on others.

[Wisdom]

wis why are you breaking up all of strange's posts and not just putting them in 1? see this is why I want to talk to majiffy cos to me it looks like scum burying posts. he will know what I am talking about

Because quote wars are ugly

[Wisdom]

It makes no sense to me to argue against a towntell because you do it as scum specifically. I admit this may be your wording (saying you'd do something "as any/either alignment" would not have sent me in a tailspin), but I'm trying to get into the mentality you were in when you made that post. This is not to say that all stated townread reasons are valid, though—buddying is a valid scumtell, though not what I'm seeing going on.

But that

is

what I said; that I would do it as scum

too

.
She finds me town for doing that, when I would not only do it as town, but also as scum; therefore it's something null.
Get it?

[Wisdom]

Elaborate on this. This is vague.

I have done that already when she first suggested it; I expect such plans to come from scum, because it is a good way to gain early towncred.
For example, in Polygamist mafia, my last scum game, I planned on opposing a pair massclaim because that would appear town-sided and I specifically told my scumbuddies that we should do that because it would earn us towncred.
Maybe I am just judging by what I would do as scum, but at the time I could really see her being scum doing that.
Now I don't so much, because the detailed version of her plan looks much better, and she probably towntelled with the 3scum thing.

[Wisdom]

No, other than the fact our votes won't be counted; will we do it ourselves?

[Wisdom]

Do you think the "towntell" was fake then?

[Wisdom]

No.

Then what was the point of bringing up past fake towntells?

[Wisdom]

No, other than the fact our votes won't be counted; will we do it ourselves?

Yes, which is why I said we should all do it in a particular way that's easy to keep track of. It doesn't have to be the way I suggested. Perhaps someone else has a better/easier idea.

IMO, it should, ideally, distinguish between real votes that do count and fake votes that do not count. That way there's no confusion and when we look at people in ISO we don't have to wonder.

We could call it something other than "Vote", like

Nominate: Venmar

[Wisdom]

What exactly is common sense, AP?

[Wisdom]

ffs venmar, how is Amrun not suspicious to you.

Do you think Venmar is town?

[Wisdom]

also wis ran away after I pointed out how he likes to pick on girls when he is scum so I am thinking it is likely true

If I answered to posts after that, it probably means I didn't run away, I just chose not to answer to such silly things.

mollie, Mara already made me lose a game because she was paranoid that I'd fool her again. Don't do the same please, thanks.

[Wisdom]

Coug, I was here answering to your quote walls, remember? What are you talking about?

[Wisdom]

Yeah, you should be getting it. Fix that.

[Wisdom]

I have no clue what NS is

[Wisdom]

I have no clue what NS is

NobodySpecial.

Ha ha.

[Wisdom]

Apparently there won't be any game where I won't read some form of "omg not usual town Wisdom". Deal with it guys, I am different in every game.

[Wisdom]

Yes, Polygamist.

[Wisdom]

Or if you're masons in any setup.

[Wisdom]

This is a strange turn. First you went from a story where you said Amrun was going for towncred by proposing a town-minded suggestion, but now you state this suggestion is not town-minded at all? Or do I misinterpret this?

My point was the the suggestion maybe appeared pro-town to most, but it wasn't necessarily so.

[Wisdom]

What is trolleytracking anyway?

Tunneling, that's how she calls it

[Wisdom]

Yeah as you'll read later we decided to do it via bolding Nominate: (name).

[Wisdom]

I disagreed with following an organized plan. I don't like organized plans, I feel that scum will exploit them. I didn't disagree with giving our scumreads. If we don't do that, then how will we lynch anyone?

I'm now okay with the plan because I accept that scum can exploit the lack of a plan as much as the presence of it, so it makes no difference.

[Wisdom]

Well that's what I understood from her posts; I was feeling she was trying to call me a noob and go "I'm experienced therefore I am right". Now that I'm looking at it maybe I was overreacting.

[Wisdom]

lol what are you talking about, they know who their scumbuddies are, it would say so in her role pm. Unless you wanna argue that she doesn't read role pms?

[Wisdom]

There are usually 3 scum in 12p games, that's where.
So without checking how many scum there are, she assumed it's 3.

[Wisdom]

She just did in 304

[Wisdom]

AP or Wisdom

Umm
You can't challenge your partner, can you?

[Wisdom]

Yeah, but you can't directly
Yet he answered the question "who would you challenge" with someone that he cannot challenge directly.
I could even see that as a scumslip, tbh. If both Venmar and AP are scum, then obviously they wouldn't care about being partners since they would already be scumbuddies.
But maybe that's a stretch.

[Wisdom]

Dunno about you, but I prefer reading 5-6 one line posts than reading quote walls.

[Wisdom]

I don't see the difference; all my posts addressing his points were one after another; would it be different if they were in a single post?

[Wisdom]

Oh, I thought you could challenge teammates? Darn it, AP is my partner.

*sob* *sob*

^
I still think that was a scumslip btw

[Wisdom]

And I do not follow why someone mentions their partner as the first person they would challenge.

Oh, apparently it's because "he thought he could challenge his partner", which is ridiculous.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom you're just pulling at straws that don't even exist.

Yeah, that's what I would also say if I slipped

[Wisdom]

Once again, I really don't care who agrees with me and I never will unless he was about to be lynched. I may change my read later; I may not. For today, I am not interested in him dying and that's that.

Amrun, why do you have this frustration about explaining your townread? You're practically saying "omg guys I just townread him okay? i dont care if you agree just stop asking me to explain!"

[Wisdom]

So what's the plan, Venmar? "Let's make Wisdom look like an idiot so that nobody notices my slip?" Is that it?

Also, what's stopping you from challenging me if you're so confident? Looks to me like you want the town permission so that you don't look bad for it, hm?

[Wisdom]

Or maybe he just listed his scumspects, which is exactly what he did.

Nope. He was answering to the question "Who would you challenge". Read the thread better.

[Wisdom]

Oh, I thought you could challenge teammates? Darn it, AP is my partner.

*sob* *sob*

^
Did you miss this, Majiffy? His response was NOT "I was just listing my scumreads", it was "I thought I could challenge my teammate".
Do you still want to insist that it was not what it was?

[Wisdom]

So what's the plan, Venmar? "Let's make Wisdom look like an idiot so that nobody notices my slip?" Is that it?

- So you agree your logic was idiotic?

So you agree that this is your plan?

[Wisdom]

Grim.
He admitted that he thought he could challenge his partner. All those indirect/informal crap you're talking about do not apply here.
Secondly, if he wanted to note the fact he scumreads AP, he could answer to "Who you would challenge" with "Wisdom. I scumread AP too but cant challenge him so yeah" or something of this nature.
He didn't do that, he included AP as the first person that he would challenge (which on its own is strange since he has more than once shown eagerness to challenge ME, not AP), and after being called out for it, he says that "he thought he could challenge his partner". Not indirectly and this stuff you're saying, DIRECTLY.
You want to buy that? I don't.

[Wisdom]

@352
Say me and you are partners, and also scumbuddies
The fact we're scumbuddies means we communicate in the scum QT, therefore we will never use the other QT.
Therefore it's not unreal for either of us to slip at some point and declare that we want to challenge each other (in a form of bussing), forgetting that we're paired.
For me it's far more unreal that someone thought he could challenge his partner.

[Wisdom]

I bet half this playerlist didnt know you couldn't challenge your partner.

Are you for real now?
Challenge goes from team to team, how the fuck do you challenge your own team?
It takes so much brain to understand that?
You want me to believe that there are people who failed to understand something this simple?

[Wisdom]

and wis too but he is being subdued

wtf are you talking about

[Wisdom]

I don't think that I was being a dick or that I was being any different than how I'm always

And if someone did, I don't care enough

[Wisdom]

Sure, he was listing his scumreads, but he did think that he could challenge AP.
And if you found that post sarcastic (which it wasn't), he re-admitted it in 353

[Wisdom]

But if you are saying that it was sarcasm when he admitted he didn't know that he can't challenge his partner, then doesn't that mean that you agree that it isn't likely someone thought that for real?

[Wisdom]

I did in polygamist, but that was because of that uncalled for caps outrage that I did on Mutley, which was dickish

[Wisdom]

Anyone else has got something to say about all of this?

Boring quote-war that probably is TvT and should stop.

[Wisdom]

Because it give us nothing, they're just bickering about whether Majiffy wants people to sheep him and whether Grim is oversensitive or not.

[Wisdom]

No it's town vs town because I townread both of them.

@Grim
No, unfortunately they both buddy each other in practically every game they're both in. This game was my first experience of that, and it was very annoying (I was certain one of them at least has to be scum), but they were both town.

They're probably both town in this game too.

[Wisdom]

Why is Grim town?

Just a feeling I'm getting. He seems different than his scumgame I recently witnessed. Of course, nobody plays the same all the time, so that's not much of an argument, but that's the vibe I'm getting atm.

And equally important: why is pirate_mollie?

On this I'm more confident; her paranoia to think I'm scum is something I expected to see in the next game I'd have with her, due to her losing to me in Polygamist. Remember how Mara (Miss Destroyer) exhibited the same thing in Jason's game? It's the same, except mollie is not going to tunnel like Mara did. Hope so, at least.
Also, Majiffy seems like his town-self, and the fact he townreads mollie is reassuring too. As I said, they are able to townread each other, so I'll trust that.

[Wisdom]

You portray Venmar as being an idiot for this post, yet you don't portray Amrun as (as much of) an idiot for forgetting there are four scum? The only time you address Amrun saying the wrong number, you say it's a possible, though potentially fake, towntell. Why are you harder on Venmar?

The two things you're comparing are not even remotely similar.
There are scum in every game, and usually in 12p games there are 3 scum. I understood the assumption.
With challenges however.. it's a setup-specific thing that doesn't exist in other games; players that play in this game are supposed to read what it is and how it works.
And the fact that challenges go from team to team (and therefore you cannot challenge your partner) was not anything minimal to ignore. You could not possibly read about what challenges are and miss that.

[Wisdom]

Not the Oranges. Interesting.

[Wisdom]

Phrasing STRONGLY suggests that he knows Amrun is scum and her reads are faked.

Umm what? I know that Amrun is scum? So are you calling me scum?

[Wisdom]

I take back my Venmar suspicions. Hes town. No way he is scum with Amrun or Grim.

Please explain this.
Is he town because of lack of association with Amrun/Grim (which you falsely think are scum)?
Or is he town for other reasons?

[Wisdom]

^lol

[Wisdom]

Now I realize how right Amrun was

[Wisdom]

Grim, mollie and Majiffy are town, Stranger is also nulltown for me.
Nice move, Jiffy, I can't vote anyone.
You just couldn't have the fucking orange team of scum challenge whoever.

[Wisdom]

^Look at the scum faking frustration
I'm guessing he's actually really happy with Majiffy's drunkderp

[Wisdom]

^
I take it you don't agree with Majiffy's decision either?

[Wisdom]

What is your read on the 4 candidates?

[Wisdom]

Although at this point I'd be perfectly fine with Majiffy dying for being so anti-town that it could come from scum easily

Yeah I thought of this too, can't say I disagree. Perhaps Majiffy is the correct lynch just for the possibility this is a scum gambit of (this is too dumb to be scum, theyll just blame it on my ego), and ensuring a town mislynch in the process.

[Wisdom]

what I'm gathering is that it was the Purple Parrots, if anybody yet, that should have been challenged.

You're just repeating things people said. This quote was said by Venmar, and your vote and reasoning on Majiffy is repeating Amrun's thought process.
You're the least townish person of the group for me, and if I lynch anyone out of that group, it's you.

VOTE: StrangerCoug


And to anticipate responses like "but you said Majiffy iz best lynch", I said that to see if people(scum) will sheep that, and they indeed did. I am not lynching Majiffy, he's still town.

[Wisdom]

"What I'm gathering" was supposed to indicate that it was a summary of the reactions to the challenge.

What summary of reactions?
Only Venmar said that he wanted us to be challenged instead.

[Wisdom]

^I'm voting StrangerCoug

[Wisdom]

Then why did you say this:

From your group I pick piratemollie,

?

[Wisdom]

Last thing he said to me was that he had caught up to page 7

[Wisdom]

Oh nvm, he also said that hes busy but he has skimmed, saw the challenge, and will have to iso people

[Wisdom]

Why is StrangerCoug townier than mollie?

[Wisdom]

Mollie, did Majiffy tell you he was going to challenge before he did it?

I get that you didn't want to go along with the plan cos you want to play the game your way but that was shitty to put us for a lynch without discussing it with me first. we are supposed to be a team and we are supposed to work together totally did not do that.

[Wisdom]

Mine?
No.
It's just like Majiffy to do that without asking anyone.

[Wisdom]

Your second choice? I thought you found mollie scummier and you wanted to lynch Majiffy, how is Coug second?

[Wisdom]

He didn't make a case, and he hasn't done anything to push the wagon. I think he expected his lovely newbie wagon just to fall into place. I find him scummy for it.

Did you see any indication of anyone suspecting Grimgroove?
Why would scum-Majiffy think he will be able to push such a lynch and gain support?
It's stubborn town-Majiffy who tunnels and thinks that he will make everyone sheep him.

[Wisdom]

yes, enomis suspected grim until recently

Nope? He never stated so.

[Wisdom]

He didn't.
And Majiffy cannot read your QT.
Therefore, no. There were no suspicions on Grimgroove for Majiffy to count on.

[Wisdom]

(Warning, Wisdom-speculation mode on)

The only possible scenario for Majiffy-scum I can see is Majiffy AND Grimgroove being scum.
Majiffy thinks: I will challenge them and instantly vote Grimgroove, but note that I find Coug scummy too
They will think I am an idiot, but town. They will not lynch Grimgroove exactly because I challenged him.
Therefore they will lynch one of the other two, most likely Coug. That way I can keep mollie alive too since she townreads me.


Is that likely? I've learned not to trust my speculations, so Coug it is.

[Wisdom]

No, what he said there was that the three of them are very active. (He was quoting the mod saying the game might go at crazy speeds)

[Wisdom]

But true, AP and mollie are two people who suspected you and who Majiffy knows.
If those two are town, it could be plausible that he could expect support from them.
But I don't think that's the case, mainly because AP isn't town.

[Wisdom]

Unvote

Since nightless is apparently a thing.

Just in case you missed it:

15."No Lynch" is not an option. The gods of the Hidden Temple demand blood.

[Wisdom]

But don't say he didn't have support for my lynch. You are the living proof of it.

This.
I'm not quite sure if AP wants to save Majiffy or Coug though at this point.

[Wisdom]

You mean like you're doing with Amrun and Grim?

[Wisdom]

Why do you feel the need to add a townread of Wisdom this early?

Phrasing STRONGLY suggests that he knows Amrun is scum and her reads are faked.

This is the post in question, you were answering a question regarding me, so I thought you were talking about me. What misrep?

[Wisdom]

Majiffy, is Grimgroove not scum anymore?

[Wisdom]

In the QT he practically ackowledged to be giving up

What did he say?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
Don't see a need to hurry

[Wisdom]

And why couldn't he do that as town?

[Wisdom]

And wait, I don't understand this
He asked you to keep posting in the QT if he dies?

[Wisdom]

Or maybe he just doesn't scumread anyone in this pool enough to bother debating?
I don't get why you cannot consider the possibility of him being town accepting that he's going to be the lynch and that's that.

[Wisdom]

Guys, I'm starting to re-think that Majiffy and Grim are both scum.

Majiffy scumreads Grim to the extent of ignoring the town plan and just challenging Grim's team so that he can vote him.
Majiffy changes his vote to Coug because Coug is being wagoned and doesn't even care about his Grim scumread anymore. In fact, he puts him FOURTH on the list of who town should lynch.
You'd imagine that Grim would be mad at this and he would want to lynch Majiffy no matter what, but what happens? He calls Majiffy town and INTENDS TO HAMMER Coug, while we haven't even properly heard from 2 people.

I thought it was a far-fetched scenario at first, but I'm starting to believe it's very likely. Read my 496 again for it.


pedit: what the fuck are you talking about? I asked because it makes no sense why he would want you to keep posting after he would be dead.

[Wisdom]

What are you doing, Wisdom? You were on such a good track of being townread by almost everyone and suddenly you're all over the place with arguments that don't make sense.

This is terrible beyond words.
So now you care about who townreads me and who doesn't? You care about how I appear? What the fuck is this?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Grimgroove

[Wisdom]

You asked for the obvious, meaning to play more stupid than you are.

The obvious. Because it makes so much sense that someone who (according to you) has accepted he will die, asks you to continue posting in the QT. Why would he ask that? To see how you're thinking? It makes completely no sense and I wouldn't be surprised if you made that up to rush a hammer on him ("he gave up guys, lets do it").

[Wisdom]

He might have said it, but it looked weird, which is why I asked you to explain it to me.
AtE is not a scumtell. Town and scum alike use it.
But this doesn't even sound like AtE. Why would he think that "continue posting in the QT if I die" would somehow convince you that he's town?

[Wisdom]

What are you talking about? Interested in your role? What role? Do you realize this is mountainous?

[Wisdom]

I don't get it
He didn't ask you to tell him if you are town
He asked you to continue posting
How the hell is it AtE

[Wisdom]

This all sounds crazy to me
Coug wanting to know your thought processes
But if he confirms it I'll have to accept it

The thing is, even if that was meant to be scummy AtE, winning you over wouldn't mean anything for him. He would still be lynched, even if you somehow believed he was town because of what he did and objected to his lynch.
Therefore, I don't see why he would do it as scum, no.
I don't see why he would do it as town either, it's really weird, but it surely does not mean he's scum as you want to make us somehow believe.

[Wisdom]

I want to hear Coug confirming/explaining that

[Wisdom]

He probably wants Grim to keep posting just to know his thoughts as he reads along. I don't see how this is so weird.

I don't like Wisdom even mentioning that Grim might have made it up. (Really?)

Why would anyone want that? I don't get it

[Wisdom]

Why would you care what Grimgroove thinks of the game after you die? I don't get it.

[Wisdom]

I'm aware of people sharing a QT (often scum, but beside the point) where the QT got new posts despite the poster being the only person in the QuickTopic alive.

The only occasion that happens is the last scum alive posting their thoughts in the QT, for people to read afterwards (and even that usually only happens in Newbies, I think)

[Wisdom]

Why would you care what Grimgroove thinks of the game after you die? I don't get it.

I want his reads. It's pretty simple.

To do what with them? You would be dead.

[Wisdom]

I don't see how that would be useful but whatever

[Wisdom]

Read my posts.

[Wisdom]

594 in particular

[Wisdom]

Majiffy scumreads Grim to the extent of ignoring the town plan and just challenging Grim's team so that he can vote him.
Majiffy changes his vote to Coug because Coug is being wagoned and doesn't even care about his Grim scumread anymore. In fact, he puts him FOURTH on the list of who town should lynch.
You'd imagine that Grim would be mad at this and he would want to lynch Majiffy no matter what, but what happens? He calls Majiffy town and INTENDS TO HAMMER Coug, while we haven't even properly heard from 2 people.

This is not a hypothesis. This is what happened. Facts.

[Wisdom]

So you believe I'm scum but decide to place your vote off my wagon?

Wisdom, I know you have moments of retardation, but this is pathetic.

Did you miss the part where I called you both scum?
Grimgroove is scummier.
But you're just as scummy for now completely withdrawing your scumread on him and pushing only Coug.

[Wisdom]

Grim is forth because the people earlier than him in the list are stronger scum reads for stronger reasons.

Yeah yeah tell me more.
You have stronger scumreads than Grim yet you challenge his team so you can vote him.

[Wisdom]

I don't get why I should care about wagons, no. I'll vote whoever is scummier to me, not to others.

[Wisdom]

The more you tell me to unvote the one who you initiated this challenge for the more my vote won't go anywhere. It's just hypocritical.

And mollie gets false townreads all the time, it can happen.

[Wisdom]

I must say that thinking Majiffy challenged 3/4 of his scum team is pretty nonsensical.

Seriously Amrun? That's what I argued? Of course he didn't challenge 3/4 of his scumteam, mollie is town.

[Wisdom]

The more you tell me to unvote the one who you initiated this challenge for the more my vote won't go anywhere. It's just hypocritical.

And mollie gets false townreads all the time, it can happen.

there are 3 players on here that I can pretty much guarantee that I can read. majiffy is 1 of them.

there were extenuating circumstances in the gonzo game for me voting the way that I did. it resulted in me probably never playing with buldey again and it makes me sad cos I feel like I lost a friend.

Considering that you might be wrong sometimes might help

[Wisdom]

SC in scum. See his latest post. Lynch him.

whats scummy about that post?

[Wisdom]

SC in scum. See his latest post. Lynch him.

whats scummy about that post?

[Wisdom]

Ignore you? I don't see you addressing me, you're just ridiculously calling me scum.

[Wisdom]

I seriously lol'd

And yes, I consider I might be wrong, but I also consider I might be right.

[Wisdom]

Well obviously I will support what I think is right, not back off because I might be wrong.

[Wisdom]

Show me what you want me to acknowledge, I don't remember you addressing me.

[Wisdom]

Btw you're silly if you think I'd try to protect my scumbuddy in a game where I can actually bus him. If you think I'm scum, you should be at least thinking that Coug must be town and that I'm going for the credit when he flips.
WIFOM, sure, but that's how it is.

[Wisdom]

Show me what you want me to acknowledge, I don't remember you addressing me.

Page 24-25 is mainly a conversation between the both of us. Who else would I have been addressing?

If its a conversation between us then how have I not acknowledged its existence?

[Wisdom]

That's what you were doing at first. You were on his wagon, were you not? What were those reasons again? Oh, yes, you'll tell me to read your posts again, thus avoiding the publicity of your inconsistencies and incoherent behaviour.
But after the bussing, SC appealed to me in the QT, and all hell broke loose (well, not really, but I can't really think of another way to summarize the events). You thought you saw an opportunity to paint me as scum, and you took it. But I'll be damned if I don't try for that awful plan to backfire in your face

Now who is the one making assumptions?
I would never go back on my bussing like that, Grim.

[Wisdom]

Can you summarize your points against me? All I seem to recall is you thinking that I'm trying to protect Coug. Which is stupid because a) we don't have a Coug flip yet, and b) You assume that I would stop bussing in the middle of the lynch and try to save my buddy which I'd never do. I'd take you more seriously if you supported I'm WKing Coug to take credit and push other mislynches next, because that's something I would do, but you don't.