Micro 199 Nonsensical Narnia Day 4

[penguin_alien]

So I've read the last five pages or so. I'll catch up on the rest later.

...we're buying that we had a vengeful active day one plus a supersaint? Mm-hm. I'm okay with my slot's vote on MC for now. I am less OK with my slot having wasted one of my investigations on a claimed miller who turned out to be running a kick-ass play. I am even less cool though with those trying to spin it as a scummy choice from AA9. Because I know when I'm scum and someone claims miller I try to establish them as town instead of leaving them to muddy the waters at LyLo or as vigbait. /snark If my slot was scum, presumably AA9 would have mentioned her plan to a partner overnight and been told how bad it was. Or at least the miller claim would have been mentioned.

so you're saying, me investigating with no knowledge of miller claim is a null tell????

Yes; cause either you're a cop who didn't see the claim and investigated AS, or you're scum who didn't see the claim and faked it on AS.

bork, care to explain how it benefits scum-AA9 to clear a townie? Especially one not claiming any sort of active PR?

[penguin_alien]

Crap, just lost a longish post. Assuming we aren't at deadline:

Bork and AS are town. Have now read the Kdub lynch. GM's push was horrendous, and trying to justify it today as 'scum read' off supposed low activity and a role claim that could be scum is even worse. That with knowing that Kdub is good at spotting scum trying to lynch him for shady reasons makes me want a GM lynch.

BRO, why not push for a scum read to L-1 hammer MC? You had GM/ffery/Kdub as one of them being scum yesterday. Two are dead, yet you've basically ignored the third all day. And your push on Kdub was pretty lousy too. VCA from an unflipped wagon plus criticizing his pressure style?

If we don't hit scum today and leave MC alive, we would likely lose assuming scum aren't idiots. But really, let's face it, scum aren't going to kill someone we're townreading. With a doc down, scum's almost certainly going for AS. We have nothing that can interfere. Which, if we have MC self-hammer puts us right back where we started tomorrow. I'd rather go for someone we actually think is likely scum today. If we lose, well, there's a good chance we'd've made the same wrong choice tomorrow.

VOTE: goodmorning

[penguin_alien]

wow I'm still alive. I'm down with a gm lynch

A) Why? B) Where's your vote then?

[penguin_alien]

No result to claim today.

BRO, why not push for a scum read to L-1 hammer MC? You had GM/ffery/Kdub as one of them being scum yesterday. Two are dead, yet you've basically ignored the third all day. And your push on Kdub was pretty lousy too. VCA from an unflipped wagon plus criticizing his pressure style?

BRO, care to comment on the above from last day phase? Take your time; I doubt I'll be able to post again for a day. Between the quoted thoughts, bork about 99% clearing MC (ninja seems unlikely) and the subsequent implication that your role plus his means two town roles that take someone out with them...yeah, you're my top suspect.

[penguin_alien]

Uhh, is it me or do our investigative roles suck hard?

It's you.

so does p_a get the rope today?

Only if you can explain to me why a scum-AA9 chose to undermine a miller claim that would have been good lynch bait and why scum-me came in and organized a lynch on my partner who was under approximately zero pressure when I could have just shut up and let you go down.

:::crickets chirping:::

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Since bork has made you confirmed town, any slightly more serious thoughts to share?

...why the fuck would you not investigate.

And I didn't want to push it because being wrong meant an insta-lose.

1) Did I say I didn't investigate? And while I'm not the bestest player around, I know darn well you've played with me enough to know that I'm not a complete derp. So why the soft-suspicion?

WRT to not pushing your goodmorning read yesterday, that's weak. You weren't even questioning goodmorning. Yes, if we'd lynched someone else and been wrong, we'd have lost at 5p LyLo when two scum voted MC RIDE, made the one-to-one trade, and then gone into night at 1:2 scum:town to lose. HOWEVER, if we'd lynched MC RIDE yesterday and been wrong (as I'm assuming we would have been, since either town-tracker-bork cleared him or scum-fake-tracker-bork cleared him) we'd still be coming in here at 5p LyLo and lynching an incorrect scum read would still be insta-lose. Yes, investigative roles might have given us more definite information for today, but I'd say that's not the case. And if you had a read you'd ever thought worth pushing, why didn't you at least pursue it a bit, apply pressure to get more information? Maybe you wouldn't have pursued a wagon until today, but having those interactions with your suspect would have helped for your ultimate case, plus you'd have been able to see how other people reacted and been able to work on finding GM's partner.

You're also not addressing the issues with having two townies who can take someone down with them. Claim order went: MC claimed Hated, you claimed Vengeful, you indicated it only worked Day One, MC claimed L-1 Supersaint. In a Micro Role Madness game, with all the possibilities out there, you have zero problem with someone claiming a very similar effect to you? Instead, you say in your next post after his SS claim:

My vengekill is only good day 1. Now I'm a VT, which is pretty weak.

Also, having a hated supersaint makes a lot of sense from a design perspective.

This explains away your claimed vengekill overlapping with his SS claim, as AS was pointing out. And you deflected onto praising how much sense the role of hated supersaint made. Now that MC RIDE is confirmed and never ever ever going to be lynched, your claim looks pretty bad.

I do wish bork had tracked BRO last night, but given that MC RIDE's claim would have let him ride to victory if he was faking I can't complain overmuch.

bork, given this:

We should lynch in these 3. Please.

That is a convenient piggyback off of BRO's reads that just happen to not include you as scum especially after pretty much offering no reads yourself.

Either letters is town or Rach trolled me hard. Scum should be White Witch and Aslan, as the three I listed were White Witch, Aslan, and Caspian X (of which I got none, obviously). Given that two of those aren't listed here. This also implies that scum got safeclaims.

Yeah UPicks are designed so that you're generally not able to make these kinds of inferences.

I want letters hammering MC or we're lynching letters straight up.

what's your current read on TMT? And seeing as you cleared MC RIDE and we established yesterday that you don't think I'm scum, who do you favor lynching, BRO or TMT?

[penguin_alien]

...Did I say you should be lynched?

[penguin_alien]

Also you not investigating last night is not acceptable unless you have got no investigations left

...

Dude, are you high?

[penguin_alien]

And also GM didn't claim, which really needs to happen. Thanks Bork for reminding me >.>

Eh, to me, scum have to be in {bork, gm, AA9} by PoE (MC's claim is dumb if scum, letters's is town because I didn't get anything I listed, AS is IC), and AA9's colossal derp regarding the whole miller claim.

How many votes do we have on MC right now? Also, MC, are you sure the supersaint is off? I don't want to lose because we fail to work around information that's out in the open (you can always self-hammer to prevent it from triggering, also).

Woah, cogency.

The last part of the first sentence is supposed to read that I think AA9 is more likely town than gm or bork.

I forgot to post that I'm V/LA in this thread and it's approaching deadline. Going to just hammer and get this shit over with; I can't guarantee that I'll be on later and the activity this game has gone to hell.

VOTE: GM

Here's all your mention of GM yesterday. Not exactly trying to delve into GM's alignment there or detail what you found scummy. Yet you were happy to hammer and abandon all hope of eliminating the problematic hated supersaint claim.

Oh, and isn't it convenient that you remembered that bork hadn't claimed yet forgot about GM? No need to hear your scum partner's claim, after all...

And BRO, you asked why I would not investigate. Either you think I'm a complete idiot or you're scum pushing for a complete claim so you can decide whether to kill me or MC tonight.

[penguin_alien]

Because it's plurality...and so hammering doesn't change the outcome, just how much town cred you can eke out. Do you not remember lynching Kdub based on a plurality wagon?

[penguin_alien]

I was only talking about the second sentence. I got the point made in the first sentence.

And what if I fessed up to being an odd-night cop? Bork claimed after everyone else; why would scum-bork make a claim that's out of line with the apparent mechanics? GM managed to fake X-shotness, after all. And in role madness, bork could have easily claimed he was saving his shots for when we were at likely one scum to function as a cop, eliminating the question of why he didn't use them pronto.

[penguin_alien]

So GM's smart enough to blend in where bork isn't? Scum-bork has skills; I'm having a hard time seeing him do this.

Notable stuff from GM's ISO:

#116: talks about figuring out who of {MC, TMT, AS} is a legit claim
Elsewhere, GM spends a lot of time going after TMT where she doesn't anyone else like that. She answers bork's questions, but her interactions with BRO are pretty...easy?

If other town people are looking for where to go, may I request you read GM's ISO? It's 79 posts, buts many are one-liners.

[penguin_alien]

...and the motive for undermining a miller claim would be what, exactly? I could see cluing in my scum buddy, but the better play would be letting town policy wagon the miller and let them go down in flames when the IC reveal happened. Or, more likely, rolecop someone more useful, and I wouldn't expect goodmorning to have let AA9 get away with rolecopping AS.

So MC, two investigative avenues is crazy, but two townies who can take people out with their lynches isn't?

[penguin_alien]

bork, I'm saying that if one saw town with a bunch of X-shot roles, why wouldn't one claim a power as X-shot as well if one was scum faking?

I'll see if the mod will give me AA9's list of characters...

[penguin_alien]

AA9's list was Aslan, Peter, Susan (only one I'd overlap on is Susan, FTR)

[penguin_alien]

...how is Peter a better claim than Aslan?

Mostly a prod dodge; I'll catch up here tonight.

[penguin_alien]

Looking at goodmorning's ISO with BRO, TMT, and bork, I'm still seeing BRO as the partner. Nothing major, just little things that make me think goodmorning wasn't scum with bork or TMT, and MC RIDE is clear. And if a BRO lynch doesn't end things and I somehow wind up in LyLo, I'd end up voting for BRO then anyways.

VOTE: BROseidon

That's L-1

[penguin_alien]

It's relevant because it makes my point against kdub less valid, although I'm still okay with parking my vote there until I see something better.

Why do you think the hop is a point against your VCA thing?

Empty feeling question here.

goodmorning: What is your read on BRO? Who are your suspects at the moment?

BRO looks a bit of a VI atm, not sure what to think of him.
Suspects currently: one of the neg. utility claims, still haven't figured out which yet but leaning towards TMTOL, and you.

Your play was certainly not VI. Declining to give a read at all? Reads like scum not sure if they're going to have to bus their partner.

I'm playing like a VI right now.

And yes I'm aware that announcing a vote as a pressure vote defeats the purpose. However, I don't believe that any vote made within the first few pages can be anything other than a pressure vote. What're you going to do, lynch someone on page 3?

GM why are you leaning towards letters?

Another empty feeling question between you two.

GM why are you leaning towards letters?

Out of the three he's contributed the least content.
That said it's giving me a bit of a headache because his claim is objectively stronger than the other two.
Come to think of it MC hasn't done much recently, but his early game stuff was quite solid.
AS has the weakest claim but unless they're faking their content they just are acting really Town.

And here's the answer. Nothing substantive. You two then go on to push the Kdub wagon pretty steadily, yet you never really converse with each other about why. And then come Day Two you distance like mad, to the point where you (BRO) don't even slightly pursue your GM scum read.

And what if I fessed up to being an odd-night cop? Bork claimed after everyone else; why would scum-bork make a claim that's out of line with the apparent mechanics? GM managed to fake X-shotness, after all. And in role madness, bork could have easily claimed he was saving his shots for when we were at likely one scum to function as a cop, eliminating the question of why he didn't use them pronto.

Then I would admit that bork being even-night is not a good argument against his claim.

And GM didn't fake being X-shot. He faked being town. He even claimed 1-shot, which is what he flipped.

Your interaction with her claim is odd as well. First you forgot she hadn't claimed (which, if she was really a scum suspect, seems unlikely) and then you say later that she claimed 1-shot when she clearly claimed X-shot:

Also I'm thinking we should massclaim at this point because we are only down to bork being unclaimed.

What ;_;

I am the Dawn Treader, (X)-Shot Commuter. I did not commute last night.

There's just a lot of little things that don't feel right.

[penguin_alien]

I don't need to answer your question, BRO; if I'm wrong about you, I'll be investigating bork and will know who scum is.

[penguin_alien]

As scum obviously figured out I was one-shot. So I need to reevaluate. I'll have time to reread this evening.

[penguin_alien]

Not hammering, for the record.

[penguin_alien]

Fuck. I wish you'd have been odd night.

VOTE: tmt

Because you wanted an investigation or to make even-night tracker more plausible?

I'm not sure about how GM was interacting with TMT, calling out his lurking.

NK-wise, fferyllt was probably killed for suspicion of GM, as both bork and TMT were on her town lists. The other NKs were conf-townies. Not much helpful there.

I want to take a closer look at bork-GM, but I'm leaning TMT.

[penguin_alien]

I've been thinking over the set-up. I know RachMarie said it wasn't necessarily balanced, so grain of salt and all. We have:

Town: day one vengeful, 2-shot doc, 1-shot cop, hated townie, IC, fruit vendor, tracker/ascetic
Scum: one-shot strongman, tracker/ascetic

Fruit vendor interferes with a tracker of either alignment. An ascetic goon means my cop shot only worked on one scum, although clearing town could have been useful too.

I also want to look through more of the dead people's last opinions.

[penguin_alien]

Noting thoughts here, probably in multiple posts:

AS had a stronger scum read on TMT. They were NK'd over me when it wasn't clear that I didn't have any investigations left. Weak scum read on bork from one head, but that read was weaker than the TMT one.

[penguin_alien]

MC RIDE was leaning bork. But then he was also voting me. He had TMT as very town.

BRO was leaning bork.

[penguin_alien]

Blast. Reading over TMT and GM individually looks like scum partners. I'm not seeing where bork would claim an odd/even thing if he was faking when everyone else has X-shot. I know bork plays a good scum game, and if I'm wrong I tip my hat to him and GM.

VOTE: TMT

[penguin_alien]

Honestly I was a bit pissed that I was lynched for what amounted to setup spec. After all, it's not guaranteed that you'll get what you pick.

I thought you were scum for your push on Kdub, full stop. Having tried something similar against Kdub in a Micro game and having had it backfire...

Really wish I'd gotten my investigation--even though it wouldn't have turned up results on anyone else. I'd have check BROseidon and known to lynch TMT and bork instead of BRO and TMT. Sorry, BRO. I'd also have put more faith in BRO's claim if MC RIDE hadn't claimed supersaint, but without the supersaint claim we'd have been screwed too, so meh; just another bad LyLo pick.

Thanks for modding, RachMarie!