Micro 199 Nonsensical Narnia Day 4

[goodmorning]

/confirm

this is going to be fantastic.

[goodmorning]

/confirm

this is going to be fantastic.

She definitely rolled scum.

WELL YAH TOTES SRSLY

Vote: fferyllt

You may as well confess now, before you put in the 300+ posts of effort.

[goodmorning]

You'll have to instalynch me if you really want to avoid 300+ of my posts. I'm writing wallz for another game tonight, so here's your chance!

VOTE: FERY

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AA9

Interesting.

[goodmorning]

That for some reason they felt it relevant to place a fake joke vote on ffery, then go back to voting their

original RVS vote

. That doesn't strike you as a bit out of the ordinary (and particularly because AA9 hasn't posted yet)?

[goodmorning]

I don't know yet, thus "interesting," meaning I want to go look at it again once someone has flipped (particularly MaranGIF or AA9).

[goodmorning]

Because the vote on you makes sense, from an RVS standpoint. It's the switch back that I find particularly worthy of attention.
That said, a Scumflip from you might make me look a bit askance at the hydra, but not very much, and the straight probability of that happening is pretty low, considering the type of player you are (what I mean by this is that if you are Scum you won't flip and if you're Town you won't flip Scum).

[goodmorning]

Nah.
She'll randomly come by soon and yell at her wagon. Just like last time.

One of the many reasons I find the revote curious.

Not telling you.
I'm not outing my alt.

Out of curiosity, which one of you isn't alt-outing?

[goodmorning]

Not telling you.
I'm not outing my alt.

Ok. I can't think of many games where I didn't draw at least a vote or two on day 1. Except for a couple of replace-ins. hmm.

I will eventually track this down.

This one, perhaps?

[goodmorning]

AA9... let's just say that she's one hell of a reflexive player.

This is putting it lightly.

[goodmorning]

Other than me and bork pushing RVS wagons and joking around, this is the first non-RVS point. What's interesting here is that goodmorning just makes a note to himself, but doesn't actually try to push the game out of RVS. That sits with me slightly poorly, because I definitely think that vote was something that goodmorning could have more explicitly used to push the game out of RVS.

Was going to answer this, but you answered it for me here:

I agree that the RVS jump back and forth was unusual, but there isn't intrinsically scum or town motivation behind it.

what I mean by this is that if you are Scum you won't flip

This feels like a strange thing to say. ffery points out why.

My opinion remains that she is quite good at this game.

That's actually why I think AA9 is a decent choice to wagon, because AA9 will probably use the wagon to generate content regardless of alignment.

I can already tell you what that "content" will be, if you care to know.
"WHAT I AM TOWN WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME ALL THE PEOPLE VOTING ME ARE SCUM"
Not really game-specific. This is what she does when wagoned. I don't see it as helpful because I don't think anyone will take her seriously.

[goodmorning]

Nacho helped me figure out how to read AA9.

Interesting that nobody has commented about Amethyst Snowflake's miller claim.

Plan to share?

I personally didn't take it seriously.

[goodmorning]

I personally didn't take it seriously.

I'd rather talk about this.

Why wouldn't you take it seriously?

Considering that it comes right after the "this is where the cool kids are" vote-revote post it was
A. not that interesting looking and
B. not that serious looking.

@hydra: Did you intend that to be a serious miller claim?

[goodmorning]

I like that I explained why I didn't take it seriously in the exact same post you quoted

[goodmorning]

Vote: MC RIDE

Current conversation looks ever-so-slightly backpedally, plus keeping my RVS on ffery is pretty useless since she's already oozing obvTown.

[goodmorning]

Also, for the record I'm at L-1 now as I'm a Hated Townie.

I don't know that I necessarily believe this claim, seeing as it's not a very common role. ALSO this is a Micro UPick, I don't see 2/7 townies having negative utility roles.
So one of {you, hydra} is likely lying, in my books.
If you actually are a Hated, why didn't you claim it earlier?

What makes you think Ffery's oozing Obvtown? I don't get that impression from her yet.

Because her play here is already feeling identical to her play in Newbie 1351.

[goodmorning]

My original plan was to play good enough to get nightkilled, which obviously failed. Claiming outright is cheap and not optimal.

WTF R U TALKIN ABOUT
People don't usually get placed at L-1 so early on the first day of play. And explain your reasoning as per the second sentence.

I feel like bork is throwing around too many town reads with not enough scumreads (ie. none)

What motivations would he have to do so as Scum? As Town?

I apologize profusely if I'm doing something incredibly stupid, but I am a Town Ascetic, which the wiki has said to be a burden for town.

OK OK 2 MAYBE, BUT

THREE

????? These cannot possibly all be real.

Also, for the record I'm at L-1 now as I'm a Hated Townie.

I don't know that I necessarily believe this claim, seeing as it's not a very common role. ALSO this is a Micro UPick, I don't see 2/7 townies having negative utility roles.
So one of {you, hydra} is likely lying, in my books.

Scum claiming miller?

It's not out of the realms of possibility.

I apologize profusely if I'm doing something incredibly stupid, but I am a Town Ascetic, which the wiki has said to be a burden for town.
So a Miller, Hated Townie, and Town Ascetic?

This changes things, and I think the hated is the definite legit one out of the three.

Why?

AS has been bugging me. I think part of it is trouble sorting which posts are GiF's but I think I have that straightened out for now.

VOTE: GM

for a host of niggles.

:[ fffff stahp doin this suspecting me thing you always do


UGH

Unvote

While I puzzle out which of the claims is/are fake.

[goodmorning]

WTF R U TALKIN ABOUT
People don't usually get placed at L-1 so early on the first day of play. And explain your reasoning as per the second sentence.

This is a micro game and L-1 is when people actually start to back off from a wagon. That's a risk I didn't want to take. For the second sentence, my claim is going to force the town into a mislynch. I have a little something extra that prevents me from getting quicklynched at lylo by scum with no repercussions so I figured I'd be mostly safe even if I didn't claim.

I see. I think I know what you're talking about but I'm not going to spread it around, info like that would be best kept out of the hands of the Scum though they might be able to guess.

What motivations would he have to do so as Scum? As Town?

Scum knows who the town is, so when they don't have any fabricated reads to throw around, it is really easy for them to say someone is town because they know they're going to be correct. Town's job is to find out who is scum, so townreads are of little help unless there's a really small pool of players left (which is not the case here)

So not a townhunting-type then.

Was I wrong about you likely being able to spot my scum game here? Your post 31 troubles me.

Even if I could spot your scumgame, which I don't know whether I can, I'm really shit at convincing others to vote with me. The playerlist as a whole would not be likely to lynch you if you were Scum, IMO.

[goodmorning]

I don't think she is scum. I am qualifying my statement from earlier that if she was scum in this game she wouldn't get lynched.

[goodmorning]

I don't think she is scum. I am qualifying my statement from earlier that if she was scum in this game she wouldn't get lynched.

leaving aside the question of your actual alignment, and mine.

If you believe that scum-me would be difficult to lynch by this player list, you're 1) nuts and 2) ignorant of my meta outside the 4 games that we've played together.

1) I'd like to think I'm not, but you may have me there
2) Not since the first time we played have I even glanced over your meta (except to look for the game AS was referring to), so you definitely have that one right.

[goodmorning]

Ooohhhhh are we talking about the butter zone phenomenon? FUN

JUST KIDDING, VCA (especially without a flip) IS STUPID

[goodmorning]

And I'm asking you why you're asking VCA questions like you actually think the answer will be convincing or meaningful at a time like this ffffffff

[goodmorning]

And I'm asking you why you're asking VCA questions like you actually think the answer will be convincing or meaningful at a time like this ffffffff

That's not why I am asking the question.

Care to enlighten me?

It's relevant because it makes my point against kdub less valid, although I'm still okay with parking my vote there until I see something better.

Why do you think the hop is a point against your VCA thing?

[goodmorning]

I don't think I've ever seen you so irritated.

Interesting.

[goodmorning]

And I'm asking you why you're asking VCA questions like you actually think the answer will be convincing or meaningful at a time like this ffffffff

You are correct but you are also massively overreacting considering I think fferyllt is just trying to get reasoning for BRO's vote. Seems like it'd be natural to direct this ire at him.

Considering the way in which her statement was worded I don't think I overreacted that much.
And I've already expressed my opinions of VCA, I'm not going to continue shouting about how silly it is.

@fffff: I'd class you there as more frustrated than irritated, but it's mostly a semantic argument that doesn't really imply what I want it to which is this:
there you were locked in a tunnel-battle with some idiot that lasted for hundreds of posts and ultimately changed nothing; here some idiot has blundered through

one question

and you're mighty annoyed about it.

[goodmorning]

fferyllt that question had two possible answers. One of them was "butter zone," the other "it just is."
And I can tell you with confidence he wasn't going to answer the latter.

And as for "kept stepping"
IT WAS ONE TIME

[goodmorning]

fferyllt that question had two possible answers. One of them was "butter zone," the other "it just is."
And I can tell you with confidence he wasn't going to answer the latter.

And as for "kept stepping"
IT WAS ONE TIME

The fuck it was one time.

140 - my reply was a straight up "I asked the question of BRO"

145 - my reply was "that's not why I'm asking the question"

And look at bro's 147 where he says you answered it for him. THANKS???

155 And you are still digging for the reason for my liine of questioning of another player.

After that you tried to make this about my irritability being "interesting".

It was the one post, wherein I mentioned butter zones and said VCA was stupid.
Me asking you why you're asking him stuff doesn't even come close to interfering with your questioning of him because you could justifiably say "I'll answer later when I've gotten the reaction I'm looking for"
Your posts and his posts on the subject are not my posts on the subject tyvm

[goodmorning]

goodmorning: What is your read on BRO? Who are your suspects at the moment?

BRO looks a bit of a VI atm, not sure what to think of him.
Suspects currently: one of the neg. utility claims, still haven't figured out which yet but leaning towards TMTOL, and you.

[goodmorning]

GM why are you leaning towards letters?

Out of the three he's contributed the least content.
That said it's giving me a bit of a headache because his claim is objectively stronger than the other two.
Come to think of it MC hasn't done much recently, but his early game stuff was quite solid.
AS has the weakest claim but unless they're faking their content they just are acting really Town.

[goodmorning]

It was the one post, wherein I mentioned butter zones and said VCA was stupid.
Me asking you why you're asking him stuff doesn't even come close to interfering with your questioning of him because you could justifiably say "I'll answer later when I've gotten the reaction I'm looking for"
Your posts and his posts on the subject are not my posts on the subject tyvm

You all but derailed the line of questioning. BRO could have dodged the follow-up easily in the midst of the chaff (which I contributed to), especially if I let it drop in the middle of rounding on you.

So you're saying I caused a distraction in the thread thanks to you overreacting and you don't think you're capable of holding up several lines of questioning at once?

If other players couldn't see where I was headed, I'd maybe rethink and wonder if I was haring off after a will o' the wisp. But, what caught my interest was also clear to at least one other player, maybe 2.

Perhaps they didn't see what I saw.

Anything at all to say about the substance of that line of questioning?

I do not know what you mean.

[goodmorning]

What substance? He's not said much more than "I don't like where he voted" and "I kinda wanna pressure him." What initially sparked the read, he said, was "gut." I fail to understand what of that you think is substance.

[goodmorning]

What substance? He's not said much more than "I don't like where he voted" and "I kinda wanna pressure him." What initially sparked the read, he said, was "gut." I fail to understand what of that you think is substance.

And this makes you feel how about his vote and his alignment? Is it part of the basis of your VI assessment?

It is most of the basis of my VI assessment. The vote is silly. The alignment? I've no effing clue.
/ridiculous pun

@MC: Do you have any solid reads at all?

Suspects currently: one of the neg. utility claims, still haven't figured out which yet but leaning towards TMTOL, and you.

Interesting. In 92, you were already suspicious of either AS or MC for the negative utility claims. Do you think TMT's claim makes them more likely to be telling the truth? Can you explain your read on me?

Them as in AS and MC? Not necessarily.
My read on you? Mainly it consists of the fact that you seem to fly under the radar in spectacular fashion without saying all that much of use.

[goodmorning]

If it were the claims alone, I'd say miller:
"oh btw, I'm going to investigate as guilty, but it's not because I

am

or anything, oh no"

But it isn't.

[goodmorning]

So now I'm really curious why no one seemed to notice that I was pretty laid back about the claims, or cares what I actually think about them.

Bit self-important, ffff. I assumed you didn't bother because you didn't really think it was relevant at this point.
Besides, didn't you mention something about a game with two millers? Or was that someone else?

@AA9: What happened to your reads you were going to post?

[goodmorning]

My read on you? Mainly it consists of the fact that you seem to fly under the radar in spectacular fashion without saying all that much of use.

Under the radar to you, or in general?

In general. Why?

your content read is stronger than your claim read?

Yes, isn't yours?

[goodmorning]

your content read is stronger than your claim read?

Yes, isn't yours?

By content I mean "You're scum because you're not posting enough"

By "yes, isn't yours" I mean "do you

really

take claims more seriously than the posts of the people who make them?"

[goodmorning]

In general. Why?

Because I would disagree with you, especially relative to a few others players in the game.

Relative arguments from one's own point of view are hardly perspicacious.

[goodmorning]

I responded negatively to your VCA. Slight difference.

[goodmorning]

@AS: The fact that you think your content is minimal, given some of the other players in this game, made me laugh.
About AA9: She's been like this recently, in Micro 189 she was Town and pretty disengaged. I'm not necessarily willing to say it's a towntell because I don't know whether she's like that as Scum recently as well, but it basically leaves her as Null/PoE Town for me personally.

@Kdub: I would prefer a lynch on you. Or TMTOL, but that's probably not happening.

Vote: Kdub

If it was correct when AS did it in 143, it'll be correct now I've gone and fixed it.
goodmorning (L-4): kdub
Bork (L-4): MC
kdub (L-3): AS, GM

Not voting: TMT, AA9, BRO, bork, fery

[goodmorning]

Oh, thing it has occurred to me I find off:
when people say "well, TMTOL could be a scum ascetic instead of a town one." GET OUTSIDE THE BOX, GUYS, IT'S CALLED FAKECLAIMS AND THEY ARE NOT

THAT

UNCOMMON

[goodmorning]

No, I'm scumreading you based on the lack of content in the posts you do have.

[goodmorning]

when people say "well, TMTOL could be a scum ascetic instead of a town one." GET OUTSIDE THE BOX, GUYS, IT'S CALLED FAKECLAIMS AND THEY ARE NOT THAT UNCOMMON

Given the speed with which he claimed, I have a hard time seeing scum-TMT making the decision to fakeclaim that on the spot. What reason would scum have to do that? He didn't instantly try to paint AS or MC as a liar and push for their lynch, and he basically locked himself into a claim that can be disproven. TMT is likely town, but IF he is scum, he's probably ascetic.

If you think he claimed "speedily" then there is probably nothing I can say on that point. The game started on a Tuesday. He claimed on a Saturday, after two earlier posts from Thursday.
Scum would always like to make themselves look Town. To claim so early would be a creative gambit, one not impossible for TMT (from what I have read from him) to think up. Early claims really tend to look townier, and it's not outside of the realms of possibility that that's what happened here.
If he had tried to push for a lynch on either of them it would highlight the fact that he, too, was a neg utility claim, and if he was pushing lynches on the grounds of neg utility claims then he'd either look like a scummy hypocrite or get lynched himself.
It is fair to say that the disproving thing would be an issue.How big an issue I think we would disagree on.

[goodmorning]

To claim an unspecified role at this point in the game makes my nebulous suspicion of Kdub rather greater.

@BRO: What do you mean less content that this? He's not got any content now.

[goodmorning]

To claim an unspecified role at this point in the game makes my nebulous suspicion of Kdub rather greater.

What do you make of the timing of the claim?

Completely random. Doesn't seem to make sense from a Town standpoint. The only reason one would claim so early is to head a lynch off at the pass. Why do that? Because it makes you look better in the future if you haven't had a million L-1 wagons run up on you. Who is concerned about appearances? Scum.

Also you said something about why would BRO venge a PR claim, but I thought Rach said somewhere that this was an all-PR game?
Just checked. She did.

1. This is a upick role madness game there are no VTs.

I don't think it's to the town's advantage for me to reveal more at the moment, because I would rather keep the scum in the dark as much as possible. The important thing is that my ability is provable, which is all that should be needed for you to make a decision on me today.

Subtle rolefish attempt is noted however.

That you claim it is provable at all already implies what it is you intend to claim anyway, not that I'm asking.
The point is that I don't buy it.

[goodmorning]

Apparently deadline is 23 hours away. We should all just lynch Kdub now.

[goodmorning]

We should not be lynching Kdub today re: his claim. GM why do you not want a BRO lynch? Don't think I've seen you call him town.

What do you mean because of his claim? I'm not in favour of leaving him alive another day just so when he can't actually prove it we lynch him then. I think he is Scum.
I mentioned earlier that I found BRO Town by PoE. I now find him Town on his own merits. He's in this game, paying attention, answering questions. His recent posts in particular have been quite Town, buoyed by his claim, the timing and content of which absolutely make sense from a bravadoing Town standpoint.

@AA9: I couldn't care less about your inactivity tbh, but what strikes me as slightly off about you here is your continual pushing of this idea that bork is Scum without you having read anything. It's almost like you're looking for a mislynch.

[goodmorning]

Because he is Scum. I am therefore assuming that he doesn't have whatever PR he wants to claim to have.

[goodmorning]

I have none.

[goodmorning]

Completely random. Doesn't seem to make sense from a Town standpoint. The only reason one would claim so early is to head a lynch off at the pass. Why do that? Because it makes you look better in the future if you haven't had a million L-1 wagons run up on you. Who is concerned about appearances? Scum.

What do you mean because of his claim? I'm not in favour of leaving him alive another day just so when he can't actually prove it we lynch him then. I think he is Scum.
I mentioned earlier that I found BRO Town by PoE. I now find him Town on his own merits. He's in this game, paying attention, answering questions. His recent posts in particular have been quite Town, buoyed by his claim, the timing and content of which absolutely make sense from a bravadoing Town standpoint.

So when I claim at L-2, it's "completely random" and "doesn't make sense" as town. When BRO claims at L-2

in the very next post

, the timing "absolutely makes sense" as town.

Yes, because he was claiming directly in response to fferyllt. It fits with the rest of his gameplay, it's coherent, and it does make sense. You claimed at L-3, completely out of the blue, in an entirely self-preservatory way.
Besides which, a relevant statement coined by DGB: "Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity."

Also, note that goodmorning didn't even respond to the logic fail I pointed out in 313. He's making an assumption of what he thinks my claim is, then he's calling me a liar based on that assumption.

I am assuming you're not going to claim Scum, therefore I am indeed assuming you're lying. Perhaps logic isn't your strong suit.

And look at GM's initial suspicion of me. Very mild compared to his recent attacks, which again I suspect is motivated by his eagerness to force my lynch through at the deadline. He even admits in 300 that his suspicion of me was "nebulous", but suddenly my claim makes me more scum? See above for his inconsistency in his attitude toward me and BRO's claims.

Your claims are dissimilar. See above for my reasoning.

If the deadline weren't an issue, I would prefer a GM lynch to a BRO lynch because his latest attacks have been scummier, but I think GM's defense of BRO here makes them a likely pairing.

And now you're going chainsaw? Without flips? Dull. Unoriginal. Classic Scum.

[goodmorning]

@Kdub: Ughhhhhh I am getting very tired of trying to get across to you that your twisting my words doesn't help anything.

@AA9 and MC: Where do you stand today?

[goodmorning]

re: Goodmorning: The only issue I have with goodmorning is the sudden surety of the Kdub scumread to the point where she won't even entertain the fact that he might be town who might be able to demonstrate <something>. Otherwise I think she's been one of the more movey-shaky players.

Considering his continued attempts to misrep me I am quite sure and it is less than sudden.
What do you think of him at the moment?

[goodmorning]

I am now no longer interested in speaking to kdub except to refer to him as a hypocrite.

[goodmorning]

...fruit vendor?



Really?



WTF. Just... I can't.

Vote confirmed.

[goodmorning]

@Kdub: I think you may well be telling the truth about being a fruit vendor. I understand the utility as well, presuming Rach is one of those mods that only allows one action per scum.
But even so there's little point in leaving you alive just in case we manage to lynch the other scum first.

[goodmorning]

@AA: Have you read D1 yet? I think you're sure to get some reads out of it.

Rereading.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, still fairly sure TMTOL is a top suspect. More later.

[goodmorning]

^Putting it off again, haven't quite finished reading yet

[goodmorning]

Hello? TMTOL? Anyone?

[goodmorning]

I would like to hear opinions from these players on why they voted Kdub. what were your reasons?

I voted him because I thought he was Scum.
If you look at my ISO most of my later posts of the day are directly related to why I thought that, since I was tunneling pretty hard.

Normally I don't think activity is a very good tell. For you, however, it does tend to be somewhat indicative. It's got me suspicious, to tell the truth, though I still find TMTOL worse (mainly since he was here and still posted little content).

[goodmorning]

Anyone have a compelling reason not to be lynching MC today?

Other than that he's probably Town, no.

[goodmorning]

PoE and his claim.

[goodmorning]

And, oddly enough,

V/LA til Tuesday

.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, I'm not sure I dig that plan. If we assume two scum (standard for 9p) then we're at 2 and 5.

So here's how it would look if we choose bork's plan 2 (assuming successful NKs because dead doc)

Spoiler: It's long.

If MC is (Hated) Supersaint Townie:
If Town "hammers": 2 and 3, scum win after NK
If Scum "hammers": 1 and 4, goes to MyLo after successful NK

If MC is (Hated) Townie:
If Town "hammers": 2 and 4, after NK is LyLo
If Scum "hammers": same as above

If MC is (Hated) Scum:
If Town "hammers": 1 and 5
If Scum "hammers": same

If MC is (Hated) Supersaint Scum:
If Town "hammers": 1 and 4, MyLo after NK

If Scum "hammers": Town win

Is it worth it? I don't think it is.

Where did TMTOL go? He was "rereading" two days ago.

[goodmorning]

He said he can't be quicklynched in LyLo. Not "well, one Scum will die" but "can't be quicklynched in LyLo".

[goodmorning]

I interpreted it as "not Hated in LyLo" but that may be because Music Theory's Hated was like that.

[goodmorning]

Not all of us are as good at strategy as you are.

[goodmorning]

It means you are very good at strategy and you are judging by your own standards.

[goodmorning]

Also I'm thinking we should massclaim at this point because we are only down to bork being unclaimed.

What ;_;

I am the Dawn Treader, (X)-Shot Commuter. I did not commute last night.

[goodmorning]

Yes, the boat was on my list.

[goodmorning]

Why would he be a hated townie? If he was town, he wouldn't lie about being a supersaint.

You would be surprised what people lie about. I try never to make any assumptions on that front.

[goodmorning]

If you're telling me you've never seen a townie (if Town he is) lie in his own self-interest, then you've not seen anything yet.

[goodmorning]

I'm assuming Aslan is an NPC based on the IC reveal flavour, but idk.

[goodmorning]

Tash is the token "false god" and Reepicheep is a Mouse.

[goodmorning]

^That's really transparent, js

[goodmorning]

BRO. That looks a little reachy to me.

TMTOL. She did. 587.

[goodmorning]

^That might be a fair compromise. So might lynching TMTOL as bork suggests.

Unofficial VC that is probably wrong:
MC - L-2 (if hated L-1) - AS, AA9
AS - L-3 - BRO

[goodmorning]

The real question ought to be where the fuck is TMTOL? He's lurking the fuck out of this one.

[goodmorning]

^That doesn't make any fucking sense as a claim.

[goodmorning]

I have yet to understand where this push on me is coming from* but the blatant opportunism displayed by TMTOL here has me quite convinced that he's Scum.

Can we also discuss the outlandishness of MC's new batch of claims?

*From reading pa's post in which she voted me it appears the reason is "she was wrong about kdub", which is quite frankly kind of a shit reason.

[goodmorning]

In which universe is TMTOL obvTown? He's been incredibly scummy the entire fucking game. If you thought my "attacking" him was scummy then why have you not voted me for it before?

[goodmorning]

Honestly I was a bit pissed that I was lynched for what amounted to setup spec. After all, it's not guaranteed that you'll get what you pick.