Micro 199 Nonsensical Narnia Day 4
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Naw I'm evil regardless of alignment. Chaotic evil WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.In post 20, fferyllt wrote:When I saw your Satanic reversal of my first post, I could tell you are evil scum. IGMEOY
But I look forward to proving my towniness to you. Unless you are scum, in which case I look forward to lynching you. Both are desirable outcomes, really.- BROseidon
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Mara you have so much respect for me. Not a lot to work with right now, but yeah I'll give it a go and try to get the game moving:
Other than me and bork pushing RVS wagons and joking around, this is the first non-RVS point. What's interesting here is that goodmorning just makes a note to himself, but doesn't actually try to push the game out of RVS. That sits with me slightly poorly, because I definitely think that vote was something that goodmorning could have more explicitly used to push the game out of RVS.In post 23, goodmorning wrote:Interesting.
Interestingly, despite the fact that bork voted after kdub for gm, bork's post is the more pro-town post. Early pushing of gut reads doesn't help generate discussion, which is what day 1 is largely about. Bork uses his vote to pressure gm in a way that will generate content, which I like.
gm's response is fine. I agree that the RVS jump back and forth was unusual, but there isn't intrinsically scum or town motivation behind it. I do think that it does make the AS/AA and AS/ffery interactions a bit more important to watch.
This feels like a strange thing to say. ffery points out why.In post 31, goodmorning wrote:what I mean by this is that if you are Scum you won't flip
AS makes a good point about the effectiveness of RVS wagons. They are probably generally better to use on newer players because they are more likely to crack (and regardless of alignment massive flails can generate huge amounts of content). That's actually why I think AA9 is a decent choice to wagon, because AA9 will probably use the wagon to generate content regardless of alignment. Just wish she would show up >.>
Alt talk is null. So is discussion about why AA9 is a good target to early wagon.
That's my take on the game so far. bork is a slight townread and I want to see the other players come into the thread before I start giving out any serious scumreads.- BROseidon
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Was Mara town or scum in that game?
Also, I totally forgot about the miller claim and missed it when I basically skipped over the first few posts >.>
I tend to be inclined to believe miller claims. It's fairly standard play for a miller to day 1 claim and it's a fairly uncommon scumgambit, so just playing the numbers makes it more likely that AS is town. If I have strong reason to doubt that later, I will, but right now it's not like AS is being scummy.- BROseidon
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That is honestly the most town feeling post I have ever seen from letters. I'm in the same boat as ffery in terms of that worrying me.
Hated is an interesting claim, especially with the miller in play. I'm kind of in the same boat as gm. Double neg utility is a lot for a micro, although not completely unreasonable if the town has a lot of power elsewhere.
This also feels like town ffery right now.- BROseidon
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Not lynching from ffery/letters/bork today, I don't think.
I agree that PLing MC today is bad, since today is the only day we are guaranteed to have all the townies alive. Obviously dies once there are 5 or 6 people left.
That leaves AS/gm/kdub/aa9. I usually like day 1 miller claims but in a game this small and with this much anti-town claimed I'm a lot less sure. Still, nothing is too much of a red flag there left.
AA9 still needs to catch up, which I think is null. GM and kdub have both been pinging a little bit off, and kdub is third on GM's wagon, so...
VOTE: kdub- BROseidon
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The former, although I did forget that you were on the wagon before and then jumped off and back on.In post 132, Kdub wrote:I don't understand what you're getting at here. Are you voting me because you think it's scummy that I am third on GM's wagon (nevermind that I was on him before I switched to MC, then switched back after the claim), or are you voting me because you don't want to be 4th on GM's wagon?- BROseidon
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It's relevant because it makes my point against kdub less valid, although I'm still okay with parking my vote there until I see something better.
Also, I thought the same thing about that letters post, although I'm also not ffery and I've gotten to be generous with townreads early.
In b4 Ms M calls me scum b/c I wasn't like this in my newbie game.- BROseidon
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This is actually a fairly subtle misrep.In post 157, Amethyst Snowflake wrote:So let me get this straight.
>BRO scumreads both GM and kdub
>BRO votes kdub for being third on GM wagon
>After being called out on it, he say that the same thing weakens his point on kdub (basically says that his reasoning sucked)
>Now he says that he did it to pressure him(kdub)
Assuming that I understood correctly,
lolno.
VOTE: BRO
Points 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive. I found something scummy, so I vote to apply pressure there.
Was that misrep intentional or do you not see the lack of mutual exclusivity?- BROseidon
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You are still implying mutual exclusivity.
It should be something more like:
>BRO (slight) scumreads both GM and kdub
>BRO votes kdub over GM for being third on GM wagon
>After being called out he says that the hop off/hop on the GM wagon (which puts him in position 3 instead of 1 or 2 or whatever it was) seriously weakens the "3rd on wagon" tell
>Still wants to apply pressure on kdub and doesn't see a better place to put vote (GM already has wagon pressure, remember).- BROseidon
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This was my original reasoning. The "pinging" is a gut feeling (which is obviously conducive to wanting to pressure so I can work that out better), rest of the thought process is PoE.In post 128, BROseidon wrote:Not lynching from ffery/letters/bork today, I don't think.
I agree that PLing MC today is bad, since today is the only day we are guaranteed to have all the townies alive. Obviously dies once there are 5 or 6 people left.
That leaves AS/gm/kdub/aa9. I usually like day 1 miller claims but in a game this small and with this much anti-town claimed I'm a lot less sure. Still, nothing is too much of a red flag there left.
AA9 still needs to catch up, which I think is null. GM and kdub have both been pinging a little bit off, and kdub is third on GM's wagon, so...
VOTE: kdub
I think I've gotten a decent amount out of this vote at this point, though. Gonna need some time to parse the information I've gotten from you/SA/GM/kdub and see what my next move is, although I'm a bit disappointed that I got more out of you/SA than I did from kdub and GM.- BROseidon
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Not wrong, but incomplete. Point 2 was also impartial.In post 173, borkjerfkin wrote:Shouldn't the actual issue be that point 2 is objectively wrong since that, ostensibly, wasn't the only reason you were voting Kdub? Why is that an afterthought here?
Multitasking. We can apply pressure to multiple people at once.
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God I feel like I'm talking half mafia theory and not actually contributing anything.
Also, missed this:
Similar to kdub, PoE and gut. I'm starting to think that there is scum in one of GM/ffery/kdub because of the interactions after my kdub vote, with GM+either of them not being the case, although ffery/kdub would still be a possibility.In post 172, MC RIDE wrote:Is GM also "pinging" or do you have reasons for that?
And yeah, that means my townread on ffery is no longer valid. Need to see a bit more.- BROseidon
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I'm playing like a VI right now.
And yes I'm aware that announcing a vote as a pressure vote defeats the purpose. However, I don't believe that any vote made within the first few pages can be anything other than a pressure vote. What're you going to do, lynch someone on page 3?
GM why are you leaning towards letters?- BROseidon
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AS is the only one of those three that has delivered memorable content, imo.In post 192, goodmorning wrote:Out of the three he's contributed the least content.- BROseidon
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Reading between the lines is hard, let's go shopping >.>In post 206, borkjerfkin wrote:
No, it really looks like you're dodging the question there until the clarification.In post 201, BROseidon wrote:The answer is yes.
That post was reasoning that would justify a yes answer but not a no answer. You seem to be being intentionally obtuse.
But, since you qualified: I want to know how you got all the way from your initial reason for KDub over GM which was the [third-vote thing that you mentioned] to the point where you're retroactively explaining it with an assertion that a breadth first approach to pressure is better than a depth first one?
Initial driving reason to voting kdub was the third vote reason, the breadth approach being secondary to that by a substantial margin. Kdub points out that he had been on the wagon earlier, so I leave my vote on kdub for the secondary reasoning.
The lack of trajectory on AS voting ffery has me concerned.- BROseidon
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Because I should never question my early reads ever. Remember that newbie game you replaced into where my early reads were horrible and the scum ended up being in slots I read as town early? Because I sure do.
Especially given that 1/2 of the AS hydra is the person I townread and turned out to be scum >:C- BROseidon
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I meant kdub. Typing fail >.>In post 223, fferyllt wrote:My point was that AS' current vote is unsupported as well. Or is that ok, since it's on the same player you are voting?
Has AS even voted you this game?- BROseidon
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In post 230, Kdub wrote:I'll say it again: we are no longer in the "early" part of the day. Your backpedaling on your reasoning for your vote is quickly becoming secondary to the fact that you aren't forming any stronger reads.
This is has become stronger.In post 181, BROseidon wrote:Similar to kdub, PoE and gut. I'm starting to think that there is scum in one of GM/ffery/kdub because of the interactions after my kdub vote, with GM+either of them not being the case, although ffery/kdub would still be a possibility.
I also think that if one of the neg-utility claims is a fakeclaim, that it's AS. Letter's claim is almost certainly legit, although I guess he could be ascetic scum. The hated claim is probably true because it would be pretty dumb to fake claim a role that gets you policy lynched as scum. Bork's relatively low activity has me a bit concerned, but I don't have meta experience on him at all so I don't know if that's normal. AA9's lurking doesn't really have me thinking she's scum because she did the same in HP mafia and ended up being town. MC I'm having a hard time calibrating a read on.- BROseidon
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Eh, phrased it badly.In post 128, BROseidon wrote:AA9 still needs to catch up, which I think is null.- BROseidon
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The way GM got in ffery's way makes it look like they aren't scum together. GM was disrupting ffery's questioning of me, which would make it potentially harder for her to discern my alignment, and might throw me off and misread her. At the same time, ffery has been pretty intent on pushing me, but hasn't actually put a vote down on me. Scum pushing for a mislynch while not actually being on the lynch is fairly standard. GM being disruptive would just be disruptive town play, in that case (which happens, and threw me off my first game).
The reason why I think kdub might be scum is because of how aggressively so people turned against me after the vote. kdub has been coasting a bit without any real pressure, and when I try to apply pressure I immediately get attacked. There has to be town in there, given that ffery/AS/bork/GM all responded negatively to my attack in one way or another, but the push feels too opportunistic. Actually, I have a quick question re: this point:
AS, which of you cast the vote for kdub?- BROseidon
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Consistency within what you say, consistency with how you place your vote, and the quality of what you say itself.In post 247, fferyllt wrote:How would you tell the difference between my trying to discern your alignment and trying to get you mislynched?- BROseidon
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okay, caught up.
VOTE: kdub
Your push on me is lazy, letting ffery and to a lesser extend bork do all the work.
MC's lack of participation with the hated claim also has me nervous as fuck given that their dead tomorrow regardless of alignment. I feel like a hated townie would want to play more aggressively than a miller would.- BROseidon
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MC, If I shoot you and miss we have 6 going into tomorrow, which is MyLo. I guess shooting you means town can vote to no-lynch and go down to 5, but that's the only benefit I would see.
Kdub, the difference is that I'm being resolute in my claim. Yours looks like you are trying to buy time. If your PR is really that important, you can claim it outright and take protection. It looks like you are trying to stall for time.
Also, wrt to the me/GM "pairing," what would me flipping town do to your read on GM?- BROseidon
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Truth about fruit vendor, lying about alignment.In post 437, Kdub wrote:I'm mostly interested in BRO and GM's opinion on whether I am lying about my claim or not. Note the stark difference in GM's approach toward me since the deadline extension, and the fact that she is posting all over the site elsewhere but not here.
Also your comment about submitting Tash feels off considering that I did not get a character that I submitted to Rach. Not sure if there is scum motivation in that or if something else is off with the way the setup was done that would let us figure shit out.
Actually, while we're at it since I've already role claimed:
Did anyone submit Reepicheep as their character? I did not, but rolled him this game.- BROseidon
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To answer this question (assuming that's what you're referring to).In post 449, Kdub wrote:Care to explain 422? Do you understand the utility of a fruit vendor?
Yes, it can confirm that you are not performing the killing action. Which is great... if there is only 1 scum. Granted, it does put you in a bind if your buddie goes down, but scum-aligned fruit vendors do exist.- BROseidon
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You can use a role for more than just it's mechanical value. Mason is probably the role that I see most used this way.
PM doesn't specify anything beyond the fact that I have a vengekill if I get lynched day 1. I would assume I could either post the kill target in here or PM it to Rach, but she didn't specify. - BROseidon
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