Mini 1478 ~ Mafia Xenologue (Game Over!)

[ProHawk]

VOTE: TIP

He is the Silky not TheIrishPope.

[ProHawk]

Wow, nice short day. Unfortunate that my random vote ended up getting lynched, but you are all chatter boxes.

Looking back at D1, TIP was an absurdly easy lynch due to changing meta and I am particularly concerned with the nonchalant push by Morph the Cat. Particularly this post:

Hi

Mara here

and I agree with TIP scum

Okay guys, no more hesitation. Run the fucker up.

Which takes zero consideration of TIP being a dynamic person in addition to using another players (Purpkin) read to strengthen a lynching position and posture. Morph's initial push was quite lack-luster as well.

VOTE: Morph the Cat

I also feel The Oil Guys' twilight posting to be disingenuous, I wouldn't mind starting there today either, but that could just be my lack of experience with them.

Also, because I am not familiar with everyone in the game it would make it a lot easier if you would refer to the slot by their name instead of the heads that make up the hydra. Just a pet-peeve of mine considering the hydra was made to play as a unit and not as separate people... but I am sure this request will be shunned and I will have to do additional work to check back with who is who when people use names not in the player list.

[ProHawk]

Why did my post take so long to be acknowledged/addressed by Morph the Cat? Why was my post construed as a me vs. Cabd, which it's not? What's the purpose of saying "your obligitory "scumread cabd" post"?

Honestly, my take is that its a

deflection

to discredit my read. By saying I always do something is saying that my vote has little/no meaning. Well, here is the fact: I am not scum-reading you specifically Cabd, you are playing in a hydra and my read of

your hydra's play

D1 is that you were the opportunistic scum. There was no attempt at you trying to figure out if TIP was scum or town, it was "oh, you failed to do this thing you normally do as town, you are auto-scum".

My only one hesitaiton would have been if mara had disagreed, because between her and I we have a (well, at the time, not anymore) perfect history of reading pope. She only re-affirmed my feelings, and I expressed that my last hesitations were gone.

Can you tell me why/where you town-read Purpkin to know they weren't leading you to a mis-lynch as scum?

Prohawk - ffery

didn't like first post. Wasn't provocative/designed to move things out of RVS

. Cabd thinks the early suspicion is typical of Prohawk when they play together and is not alignment indicative.

I call fake. What did you think about Purpkin's first post? Someone whom you obviously trusted enough to dispel all doubts about a lynch. What did you think about Lady Lambda's first post?

Nat also needs to die: 177 is a clear distance from the TIP lynch. With a town flip - he is distance man and supportive on the lynch. Scum trait. Qualifies for scum dat is off said wagon.

You realize you also could be considered the distance man as well right?

TOWN
purpkin
jabberwock <--- i worry about something but im not going to dwell on it for now

ffcabdy <--- worried bout ffery but I'll trust nacho's metareading

DTM <--- for srs, this guy townytown

prohawk <--- from what ive seen i like the slot

sakurahana <--- pending questions

What do you think about my vote Andrius? I noticed you quoted my post about The Cat but failed to comment on it.

Saki's posting less than usual for scum-him, but I have little experience in games with him. He's a natural heel in any case.

That settles it. I'm calling scum-Saki right now, I've seen this before. I typically don't "meta" people too hard, but holy shit, I think I've seen him do this exact same sequence of plays as a scum elsewhere(don't ask me for sources, I can't provide).

VOTE: Saki

These two posts don't equate at all. Going from I have little experience to Vote: I have seen this before but can't tell you where. Meta takes a lot of games and experience to be done properly.

[ProHawk]

Morph, why aren't you voting yet?

[ProHawk]

Meta is weak IMO. It takes a lot of info to make a strong meta-case.

Who said I was opposed to RVS?

[ProHawk]

Oh how cute. Someone is so obv-town. How about you quantify that Sherlock.

[ProHawk]

But really, why not answer the question of why you thought Purp was obv-town instead of go into a rant on why Purp being scum or town would force you to read the same regardless?

[ProHawk]

I don't need to step up shit, I'm practically a scumhunting god at this point.

Your read on me speaks to the contrary, but I suppose this is more of a post-game discussion more than anything.

There was no attempt at you trying to figure out if TIP was scum or town, it was "oh, you failed to do this thing you normally do as town, you are auto-scum".

It was a meta read. I'm assuming you know how Cabd treats his metareads considering your hydra with him, no?

The Cat Hydra already pointed this out... but. The game I played with Cabd was full of meta to acquire mis-lynches, and it worked flawlessly. Unless Town-Cabd is a moron, he will use more than just meta to drive someone into the ground because I know he knows that meta-alone is more of a miss than a hit when it comes to accuracy. Which only speaks to the way he uses it to attain mis-lynches. Not to mention this whole business of tossing me aside because he claims I always scum-read him is a farce.

Sakura, can you elaborate on this?

I was focusing at Saki's gameplay so much that I didnt realize you were referring to that one action, even tho you mentioned it multiple times... sorry about that.

What was that action that made you change your read and what about it made you change?

[ProHawk]

Dear Andrius,

My vote was and is for Morph the Cat. Whom you affectionately refer to as: ffcabdy. I want to know your thoughts on said vote. Kthx.

And, Sakura, this is either telling or was missed.

Sakura, can you elaborate on this?

I was focusing at Saki's gameplay so much that I didnt realize you were referring to that one action, even tho you mentioned it multiple times... sorry about that.

What was that action that made you change your read and what about it made you change?

You can't miss it twice...

[ProHawk]

You're being vague again. You specifically said it was referring to

one action

that you had missed. I want to know what that action was and what about that action made you change your read so drastically.

[ProHawk]

Ahan... basically I am saying your flop was crap, that you really don't believe what you are saying and you are just riding the coat-tails of Sir Jabberwock. Everything you have thus posted has only proved my point. So either you are scum trying to blend in, or you are town not admitting to sheeping.

[ProHawk]

*hint* *hint*

You're being vague again. You specifically said it was referring to one action that you had missed. I want to know what that action was and

what about that action made you change your read

so drastically.

You completely missed/dodged the above bold part. Not to mention just regurgitating what you already said which wasn't what I asked anyway. I don't need to ask questions about what has already been stated.

[ProHawk]

Purpkin, I agree that Sakura's read on Saki is pretty bogus, but I am concerned about The Cat Hydra.

Do you read them as town? If you do could you help me understand why?

[ProHawk]

I had just seen you make a post, so I figured I would get your input while you were in the thread. I feel like absolutely no one except me feels like Morph is scum, so I am trying to figure out why.

I find it interesting that you list the reason being that he was worried about you ragging on him for mis-reading TIP when A) You didn't rag on him in the slightest and B) He used your read as a crutch.

Spoiler: Morph's Posts Re: TIP

Cold stone all over again? Methinks so.

VOTE: TIP

Dance.

It doesn't match his profile in cold stone to a T,but quite a bit of overlap is there. He hasn't done any of his random stupid shit. Town TIP always does something dumbassish on page one. And he claims his "new and improved" ways only when convenient.

44 is the "tip being serious" post that sent off alarm bells actually. Compare 26 in coldstone.

Jabbers, if the mara head of purpkin, when she gets online, agrees with me, I'm more than confident enough to run him up all the way. Between the two of us, we can read him transparently.

@Morph the Cat/Jabberwok
1. A point was raised about TIP's prior game activities and gambits. I want meta links/game references. How does dumb early pages TIP differ from learning TIP in terms of town play. Differences in play style and pattern recognition of prior game play works - but there is something off when TIP openly admitted to buddying to Tierce/Jabber slot that I dislike about the wagon. I just want these references, I have a working idea on something else and will dig that up later.

Cold Stone: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30103

Game with TIP-town (I was scum there): http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28000

Another TIP towngame: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28260

And another: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29547

This is similar behavior to what he showed in the recently finished Cold Stone Open, and was the main reason Cabd (as MC Maraca) scumread him in that game.

Furthermore, the other head of MC maraca is the other head of the pumpkin hydra, so we're both here to nail him.

Hi

Mara here

and I agree with TIP scum

Okay guys, no more hesitation. Run the fucker up.

Which one of those would you classify as a hard-on?

Also.

Potential TIP partners (odds) include Saki (high), Nats (medium) DTwhatever (low) and Lady (low)

Andy super unlikely but technically possible.

Strong town reads in Purpkin and Jabber.

Here. The top part is predicated on scum-TIP which I'm thinking isn't based on his rageposts at Mara.

Is that the post you are referring to as Ffery frustration? I see in 160 that they say kill him. 178 that says it was the hammer. 179 was a question about reads??

I do however see what you mean about 191 and making reads, however I do know for sure that Cabd clears people as town based on their twilight posting and views more/content of twilight posting as an indicator of towniness, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that he would not only post during twilight, but make a post that would distance him from the appearance of having prior knowledge of what the flip is going to be.

[ProHawk]

Morph, can you put reasoning behind why you classified Saki, and Nats, and DTwhatever and Lady as potential partners of TIP?

[ProHawk]

Lynch This Please ^

[ProHawk]

Ok...

I asked Cabd if he'd like me to acknowledge your question to him last night. He said no need because you knew he was busy.

This is not a me vs Cabd thing. This is a me and Morph the Cat thing. Do you disagree with what your hydra posted?

[ProHawk]

Can we table that slot for now and focus on the two S wagons?

Why should we table discussion? I find Sakura the scummier of the two, but not necessarily the one I would like to lynch today.

[ProHawk]

And Saki?

[ProHawk]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

[ProHawk]

Wait wait wait, that didn't even answer my question. Did you feel like they were scum-partners with TIP?

Oh come on hawkie you're not THIS obtuse.

Potential TIP partners

(odds) include Saki (high), Nats (medium) DTwhatever (low) and Lady (low)

Andy super unlikely but technically possible.

Strong town reads in Purpkin and Jabber.

Whatever man, Potential Partners. I don't think I have ever seen someone use semantics as a defense...

My point: reads list was faked. He

won't

can't defend his reasoning because he doesn't have any.

Tycoon - Have played two games with him on site, one as a joint-scum-team. Multiple games off site.

[ProHawk]

Tycoon -

This Game is the one where Cabd gets his baseline of me-reading him wrong.

Another Game.

First Game Together.

One other game is ongoing. I am pretty sure thats about all of them.

[ProHawk]

Prohawk - ffery thinks he's trying divide and conquer on our slot and that he's targeting her as the relatively weaker partner of the hydra right now.
Cabd thinks this is scumhawk because of the level of tunneling and the refusal to look elsewhere.

How do you all find this town? Mr Meta. Go show me where I tunnel as scum. kthx.

[ProHawk]

Sorry about that. I've apparently spent most of this game napping. I typed this post to a background of several puppy image tabs and that seems to work wonders for motivation~

Sakura is omg-Town.

That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town.

This game isn't particularly easy and she doesn't have the benefit of having a hydra partner helping her out. I've been there. I know how it is to feel like a game is going WOOOOOSH over your head--and the way she expresses it is crazy Town. Scum wouldn't say that, especially if you consider that Vi games usually have Daytalk--her buddies can guide her on who to wagon. This isn't happening, she's truly alone, she's Town, end of story. Empire wants to give you a hug for Post 726 and I promise that the dragonish coils are gentle.

Saki offering to fullclaim and selfhammer

when he's not even the leading wagon--that's playing stupid. Whatever he is, Saki is NOT stupid. He likes to fuck around as Town too, sure, but the interest in scumhunting is there and is much more genuine. In this game? He's just flailing around being 'useless' and getting cozy with Sakura's bland description of his meta, because he thinks he can. Saki is not stupid and can pull his weight as Town, but he's choosing not to do so here and instead play the herp a derp omg to scummy to be scum card.

He's scum, don't be fooled by the act.

Andrius--as of now, we have role-related reasons that make us think Andrius is scum and we'd prefer to lynch him Today over anyone else. Him being all over Sakura's lack of scumreads as if it is bad but not bothering to look at the motivations behind it and shifting to her with no regard to the Sakura/Saki interaction is just icing on the cake. He is one of the players here who benefit heavily from NKing Nacho before Nacho even gets to post, and that hammer helps him along very very nicely.

ProHawk--good wagon, would lynch again

, but please don't make it Today's wagon when Andrius is RIGHT THERE.

DDD reads Town but that's obvious because Natirasha. Empire thinks him being abrasive is Townish (though I think that's DDD being DDD, which is actually a good sign because he's acting naturally), and he's pushing his preferred wagon with a measure of conviction through trying to persuade other strong players to join him; he could be appealing to weaker ones and being a lt slimier, it's a good sign he's not.

We think Daemon is Town, because of his genuine analysis of his own scumhunting and the paranoia bit. Keeping your options open by selling fence-sitting/waffling as paranoia isn't that easy to do as scum, and he doesn't seem experienced enough to pull that off naturally.

UNVOTE: Saki
VOTE: Andrius

Most of this post is dumb, mostly the bolded stuff. No offense dude. This "That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town." does not read town to me at all. She is the lead wagon and its an appeal to emotion, in fact its the

same type of appeal to emotion that Saki used

in different clothes, and you call him scum. You call Saki scum and unvote. Soft-claim investigative. When have you ever lynched me and what makes you think I am a good wagon?

[ProHawk]

Just pointing out the obvious little snake-head dude so that maybe when I am dead someone will come back to this post and see your failed logic. Whether its indicative of your alignment yet is still out for jury, but it is admissible evidence to me. Should also note I hadn't completely caught up and missed your reasoning for Andy not being investigative.

[ProHawk]

You seem really determined to read them as scum though, no matter what they do (like your 664 -- what is scummy about their saying "I will meta this dude when I have time?"

664 isn't scummy. Its when I directly ask them a question, and its gets "skipped" that is scummy. Like trying to scramble for answers scummy.

Furthermore, your initial hop on them in #342 is contingent on "using another player to strengthen a lynching position and posture". That actually seems like something town would do to me -- use someone that has prior experience with a slot as an authoritative source for a better read -- especially when they have a town read on the slot doing that. Why is that scummy to you in the first place?

Why in the world would town need someone to strengthen their read? Its scummy to me because it allows someone to put half of the blame on someone else for a mis-lynch.

You just seem really locked into this tunnel and I can't figure out why that is.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty darn sure I am right. This is who I want to lynch today, Sakura is second.

"Potential Tip Partners" = 'in the event of a TIP scumflip, here is where you should look.' I don't get the problem.

This is in response to... Jabberwock re: Twilight post being town. As I was looking at it, it looked fake. I then ask for rationale and get a rebuttal in the form of a semantics argument, and no rationale. Ya, still looks faked.

P-EDIT: If I was encouraging a Sakura counter wagon, I would be on it. I am encouraging a second look on your slot who has otherwise appeared town. I also don't care what you hate. So there is that.

[ProHawk]

Aren't you cute tho?

[ProHawk]

But you have no stance on the current wagons and that makes us sad.

Lies.

I don't think Saki is scum, and I won't help lynch him.

I think Sakura is more likely of the two (btwn Saki and Sakura) to be scum.

Apparently I am now a juicy lynchee.

[ProHawk]

Umm. No?

[ProHawk]

Umm. No?

Well how about this, you can either step out of the crossfire like I asked and let me work out why the fuck Tierce wants to lynch Saki so bad, or you can stand in the crossfire and earn my ire.

And trust me, if there's a single person in this game you don't want pissed at you, it's me.

No. You are no better than anyone else here. I don't care about your dumb ire, and I really could care less if you were pissed at me.

Acting like you are acting only suits scum, as if you are town you are playing against your win-con by making it a personal fight. So get over yourself. If my posts clutter up your precious convo with your comrade over there, just skip over them and come back to them later.

[ProHawk]

664 isn't scummy. Its when I directly ask them a question, and its gets "skipped" that is scummy. Like trying to scramble for answers scummy.

Speaking of this, I asked you a question earlier and you never answered it

Speaking of this, and a re-read of your ISO it appears I indeed have answered over all of your questions unless you hid one somewhere I didn't see. So, please restate said question.

Is there a reason you're ignoring us?

You're joking right? I bet you haven't even looked at any of those games I had linked. Or perhaps you could enlighten us with your analysis?

What exactly do you want me to say? You don't like me because I called you scum before you came out? Well, boo-hoo. I don't even know what you mean by convenient? Are you trying to say I knew you were supposed to die but didn't so I pretended to have a scum read on you? Way to create a gigantic ball of WIFOM regarding my alignment. If I would have said you were conf-town in my opening post you would have said I was white-knighting so... what's your point? To be frank, I am waiting for you to die so I can start sorting out your claim and reactions to it with a degree of accuracy.

There is nothing you have addressed to me that I have not responded in kind save you calling me scum, which isn't really a case anyway.

VOTE: Sakura

That's L-1.

[ProHawk]

There is no freaking way Morph is town.

Prohawk - ffery thinks he's trying divide and conquer on our slot and that he's targeting her as the relatively weaker partner of the hydra right now.
Cabd thinks this is scumhawk because of the level of tunneling and the refusal to look elsewhere.

This is the reason they gave of why I am scum.

When I ask Cabd to do the following...

How do you all find this town? Mr Meta. Go show me where I tunnel as scum. kthx.

We get... can you hear the crickets? Wanna know why? Cause he has seen me tunnel as town. Level of tunneling is not indicative of me being scum and is literally the dumbest excuse I have heard. When I have a reasonable amount of evidence/information and am confident I have found scum I will tunnel them until they eat rope, it is what I do.

Also, I haven't targeted ffery, not once. Nor have I even thought or made any mention that she is the weaker of the two players.

Nacho/Syr, you two better freaking pay attention to the game and posts I had made to you before the day ended. If you lose the game for us from the grave... dumb.

VOTE: MorphTheCat

[ProHawk]

^ Can't even be bothered to check why scum morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info. Keep going~

Umm, lets see here...

Oil Tycoons is confirmed town. If they sheep them (like they sheep others), they get to ride on that town-cred. After-all a conf. town couldn't be wrong amirite?

Oil Tycoons is pushing a mis-lynch with fire, FROM THE GRAVE, why on earth would scum-Cat out that Oil Tycoons, a confirmed town, is the main leader of the mis-lynch push?

Did you notice how they let the Oil Tycoons vote post first and THEN they voted afterwards?

Maybe you should put a little more thought into the game Jabberwock.

[ProHawk]

EBWOP: That second point reads kinda funky with the sarcastic tone. Should read:

Oil Tycoons is pushing a mis-lynch with fire, FROM THE GRAVE, why on earth

wouldn't

scum-Cat out that Oil Tycoons, a confirmed town, is the main leader of the mis-lynch push?

[ProHawk]

The words "a fiery death" and "I want him to be horrified to draw bullshit scum ever agfain" factored quite heavily into the conversation.

I am

more than happy

to prove (with my town flip) he plays a crappy Mafia game because he can't be patient enough to sit down and do real analysis, but instead runs his mouth and impatiently creates crap reads.

This isn't his first game he screwed up and I guarantee it won't be the last until he drops his pride.

Tell me again how

my

Sakura vote is opportunistic, when yours (MorphtheCat) wasn't.

Since no one cared to read/understand/comment why scum-Morph would try to silence/not reveal that they could continue to communicate with OilTycoons, let's go for it this way.

Jabberwock/DTM. Please explain to me why scum-Morph would want to silence OilTycoons and not reveal that they still had a proxy vote

and

voice?

[ProHawk]

Jabberwock/DTM. Please explain to me why scum-Morph would want to silence OilTycoons and not reveal that they still had a proxy vote and voice?

Am I the lazy scum?

[ProHawk]

Hey Cabd, you little weakling, scared of outlining that game yourself? Lets outline that game step by step, shall we?

Day 1 -

Random Vote
Post #79, attacking Blakes AND SheNinja.
Attack SheNinja/Replacement until Post #244, then reads shift to Napoleon. Oh look, already mid-game read shift quit tunneling... hmm...
Read post #323 in which I outline the attacks I had made, against whom which clearly shows I was not tunneling on one person.
Post #401 calls Gaia scum.

Day 2 -

Post 503 - Opening post vote on KirbySwag... interesting... if I were tunneling hard-core as you say, shouldn't have my vote been for Napoleon, or Gaia, or what? :S
Post 683 - My read/vote changes from KirbySwag to PokemonPlayer101.

Perhaps we have differing opinions about what hard-core tunneling is, but I am going to stop with the play-by-play because I think you all get the picture. Also, you WILL see similarities between my scum and town games because if there wasn't I wouldn't be as effective as I am when I play scum. Now, Mr. Meta, the burden of proof now lies with you to show exactly how that game that I played scum mirrors this game to the point where I am worthy of being lynched instead of blindly pushing a mis-lynch which you so coyly did to TIP.

In fact, since we are all on this hype of meta, let me direct you to one of my town games in which you WILL find an uncanny similarity. Check out Mini 1385 in which you will see me attack roflcopter for nearly the entirety of D1 with a side helping of MonkeyMan in a bit of self-preservation mode as I was the lynch target for D1.

But let's be honest, you don't actually care because you are scum and are hoping the dead townie can do all of the work for you, which happens to be why you are quoting your QT here.

If you guys continue to ignore me/my posts, I am really getting tired of putting in time and effort into this game just to be ignored. So if you are sure I am scum and have resigned to not paying any attention to my posts/requests/questions please just lynch me now because its frankly quite frustrating and annoying.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk: Lazy scum = Saki

Then why are you ignoring my question?

[ProHawk]

My thoughts on this game which will encompass my read on Saki boil down to the following fact: I am being stone-walled.

As I present ideas/theorys/evidence, no one is commenting, presenting counter arguments, etc. I presented arguments on Morph the Cat. Nothing. I am being stone-walled.

Because it is a generalized overall effort (or lack thereof), it includes both scum and town who aren't willing to discuss ideas and findings with me. My theory is that a good majority of town players are players that are putting forth little effort in the game and therefore aren't wanting to engage me.

You described Saki pretty well. He is playing quite lazily. I can't imagine that town would intentionally ignore me, therefore there has to be town in the lazy player-base. This is where Saki falls in my reads.

ProHawk: because your question is boring and we've already explained why it doesn't make sense that morph the cat would hide behind Nachoyana for a mislynch, Cabd's perfectly capable of doing it on his own without needing someone's confTown banner. Furthermore, the "oh look they only used "their" vote after Nacho and Syr" bit is bullshit. It's bad and you should feel bad. If you're not getting lynched Today, Saki is, so what's your read on him?

My question is boring?

Hardly.

You've already explained why?

Lie.

In fact, you said

you couldn't even be bothered to check why

.

^ Can't even be bothered to check why scum morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info.

Now that you did explain why after saying you already did (which you didn't) your points boil down to:

• Cabd-scum is capable of pushing a mis-lynch on his own without needing someone else already confirmed town.
  
• Me using voting sequence is bad and I should feel bad

Nothing here points to any

reason

why Cabd-scum wouldn't have outed their Oil Tycoon's connection.

That's great that Cabd/Ffery may be able to push a mis-lynch on their own, but

how would it affect their ability to blend in with the town

? It is fact that a player pushing a lynch is in the lime-light. It removes the ability to blend as they are front and center. You also fail to understand that by using the Oil Tycoon's vote, not only are they (MorphTheCat) in control of who it targets, but their vote is an additional vote that isn't factored into the majority needed to lynch.

Secondarily, by placing their vote secondary to Oil Tycoons, they are allowing Tycoons to maintain the front and center while maintaining a back-ground approach that they took in the TIP lynch AND the Sakura lynch. You calling it bad means jack-squat and when they flip scum I hope YOU feel bad. While I wouldn't consider this concrete damning evidence, it is evidence and should be considered in the overall read.

If my question were boring, why not just say so in one of your previous posts? It honestly didn't look like you were super involved in some other analysis/discussion going on here.

Now, what happens when I get lynched, flip town, and Oil Tycoons then actually gets a read right? What makes you think MorphTheCat isn't going to alter what Tycoons says to conform to another mis-lynch? Who is to say they don't actually get to control OilTycoon's vote? You mentioned this, but failed to follow up which only leads me to believe you aren't

really

considering the possibility of Morph the Cat scum. (Yes, I read your post about Ffery not playing to her normal town-game, but also feel like your attack is weak considering you fail to use that logic in conjunction with wanting to lynch me still). The logical conclusion of you faking is that you are scum, which is the direction I am leaning at the moment.

I am going to analyze a few of the reasons people are voting for me and their arguments in a centralized post before I decide on who is better to lynch out of MorphTheCat and Jabberwock, but honestly don't feel like we could go wrong with either of them.

[ProHawk]

I'm about to go out for AMURIKA WOOOO celebratory dinner, but this:

You've already explained why?

Lie.

In fact, you said

you couldn't even be bothered to check why

.

^ Can't even be bothered to check why scum morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info.

This is crap and you know it. The "^" was referring to the post above 929, which was (

gasp!

) Post 928, written by (surprise!) you, ProHawk.

Aaand, what's your point? Were you saying that

I

couldn't be bothered to check why scum-morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info? That makes little to no sense considering that I was the one who just called them scum and had plenty of reason as to why scum-morph the cat would have outed Oil Tycoons.

Again, even if that was your intended meaning of which I misinterpreted since you decided against using pronouns which would have led to less confusion, it doesn't address the main issue which was you claiming to have already answered my question that clearly you did not.

[ProHawk]

Spoiler: Morph's posts against ProHawk

I *think* I would recognize scum Andrius. I'd go with town based on the model I've got.

I'm in pretty much agreement with ya. You've talked to Nacho more recently than I, so I'm no help there.

Ignoring the "S-people clusterfuck" who do be you thinking scum?

I'm not liking Prohawk.

Reads updated

Town

Oil Tycoons - basically conftown due to claim of eminent demise, bolstered by Nacho read. Syr usually pressures ffery more early on, though.

Leaning Town

Purpkin - borktown as far as ffery is concerned. Cabd concurs re Mara. We cross-agree on them. Also neighborhood.

DTMaster - dayvig gambit (due to target mostly) was a good start in the town direction. Saki push looked town-motivated as did the back-off when OT claimed.

DDD (rep nats) - was leaning town anyway, but the confirmation of "don't know how it works" roles from OT bumps it up considerably. Also play since replacing in has looked pretty town-motivated.

Jaberwocky - leaning town with a few reservations over interactions with us and Nacho. (Cabd reservations mostly gone now due to Red Wedding Meta, ffery is doing that thing about liking people who are suspicious of her). Feel like they are holding back on reads, though.

Null

Andrius - Derphammer. Under observation. Maybe not giving his scum game enough credit. Leans town after the metadives by Jabbers and ffery.

LLD - Cabd is bothered a little, not sure why. ffery is mostly convinced by Empire meta report. Meta dive still pending. Rather checked out today which is odd. School's out so expecting more.

Saki - Not playing as much the risk-taker as ffery's town-Saki model would predict. Recent posts have moved him up a little.

Daemon385 - pingy posts, but up to null due to metadives and the occasional very genuine note in his posts.

Scum

Sakura Hana - level of involvement now that she's checked in is problematic, LACK OF READS. Fatalistic stuff is alignment neutral in ffery's experience.

Prohawk - ffery thinks he's trying divide and conquer on our slot and that he's targeting her as the relatively weaker partner of the hydra right now.
Cabd thinks this is scumhawk because of the level of tunneling and the refusal to look elsewhere.

There were a total of two posts that expressed that I was scum, and the reasons are:

• Hawk is trying to divide and conquer? targeting ffery specifically as a weaker partner.
  
• Hawk has a scum-level of tunneling and refuses to look elsewhere.

I have addressed the first point, which is bogus.
The second point was also addressed by me, which is also bogus and hasn't been refuted.

Spoiler: Purpkin's posts Re: Hawk Vote

I think we can get a quorum for Prohawk.
VOTE: prohawk

this is

partially summarized in #703

but I am also

trusting our neighbors here, who I steadfastly think are town.

Tiempire, let's compromise here?

Why should we table discussion? I find Sakura the scummier of the two, but not necessarily the one I would like to lynch today.

I've been trying to get ahold of Mara for the better part of a day now, but everyone else in the QT is ok with it, and we're kinda stalled, so:

We are neighbors with MTC.

Have been since about the beginning of the game when they initiated it. Our interaction in the QT is making me think they are town.

You

seem really determined to read them as scum

though,

no matter what they do

(like your 664 -- what is scummy about their saying "I will meta this dude when I have time?"

Furthermore, your initial hop on them in #342 is contingent on "using another player to strengthen a lynching position and posture". That actually seems like something town would do to me -- use someone that has prior experience with a slot as an authoritative source for a better read -- especially when they have a town read on the slot doing that. Why is that scummy to you in the first place?

You just seem really locked into this tunnel and I can't figure out why that is.

"Potential Tip Partners" = 'in the event of a TIP scumflip, here is where you should look.' I don't get the problem.

---

I like daemon for town.

664 isn't scummy. Its when I directly ask them a question, and its gets "skipped" that is scummy. Like trying to scramble for answers scummy.

Speaking of this,

I asked you a question earlier and you never answered it

RE: Saki, Without giving me Meta, can someone tell me why he's scum?

I don't feel like reading anything atm

as for my town-read on him, it's mostly due to his interaction with Nacho, and why he was scum reading DTM. I can't really see scum OMGUS'ing on a "fake guilty" the way he did. He has really strong convictions when it comes to his reads no matter how irrational it may be.

that, to me is a townish trait

I asked something similar to "did you kill off the two people I knew"
No answer, just "LOOK AT SAKI" AtE

This wasn't even phrased as a question...what were you expecting them to say?

Because on closer inspection you would notice that I pretty much pushed both wagons.
I contradicted myself.
Why would Jabberwock fail to see this?

Again, what were you expecting them to say? You didn't indicate you were expecting a response at all. This is why most reaction tests are dumb - you don't have the pass/fail conditions set realistically.

I wanted to call you scum for this when I first read your explanation of critter scum but now I think you really just didn't think this through well.

----

otherwise I'm nowheresville with reads and I'm forced to reread at this point because I'm second guessing everything and

can't responsibly do anything except sheep OT right now.

Purpkin has posted more about their voting, which comes down to:

• They are Trusting MorphTheCat
  
• Hawk is determined to scum read MorphTheCat no matter what they do.
  
• Hawk was asked a question by Purpkin that was not addressed.
  
• Is sheeping Oil Tycoons

First and last reasons fail to take into account that town-players have wrong reads. The second point I addressed here, with no response. Third point I addressed here and am still due an explanation or apology.

I get a town vibe from Purpkin, which disappoints me from their lack of interest/investment into this game. I feel like scumPurpkin would put more effort into their reasons for calling me scum (something I have experienced with Bork). Please work on some solid reads with solid reasoning.

Spoiler: Oil Tycoon's Reasons for Voting ProHawk

I'm not liking Prohawk.

Did Nacho talk about him at all?

Yay self ISO. Answer: no.

Well, he can come give his two cents later.

I don't like Prohawk either, and I haven't liked him since his opening post at the start of this Day phase. He's spent way

too much time tunneling

your slot

to the exclusion of all else

(especially when it's p obv

the slot is town to a bunch of other obvious townsfolk

and townscreatures) and the timing of his little "hey the old man might be scum cuz disingenuous was damn

convenient

considering we just got protected afask.

That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town.

Null null null, sorry.

n this game? He's just flailing around being 'useless' and getting cozy with Sakura's bland description of his meta, because he thinks he can. Saki is not stupid and can pull his weight as Town, but he's choosing not to do so here and instead play the herp a derp omg to scummy to be scum card. He's scum, don't be fooled by the act.

He can be useless as scum and useful as town. Imagine that.

He is one of the players here who benefit heavily from NKing Nacho before Nacho even gets to post,

Everyone benefits heavily from that. He's town and he didn't kill me.

Which personally has me writing them of at the moment. One of them could be scum, but I feel like they are just blatantly being uselessly bad.

This doesn't explain why you're currently writing them off.

2) Why did he pick us when he could pick Nacho, who he is much more used to dealing with?

Last time Andy was recruiting masonizer and didn't recruit me until N3.

It's weird for me because I can also do that. Except my ability fails if i target a male character, this is getting too weird, is it normal of Vi to give the exact same ability to 2 people?

How did you miss Purpkin's neighborizer claim as well?

Okay seriously Sakura is like Townier than Nachyana, that post was ridiculously Town. Never ever ever lynch that slot. But--my brain.

Tierce you really really need to touch bases with us because your reads are not aligning well with ours at the moment.
Andrius's neighborhood with you explains his earlier paranoia on you and he's 100% town.

Just pointing out the obvious little snake-head dude so that maybe when I am dead someone will come back to this post and see your failed logic. Whether its indicative of your alignment yet is still out for jury, but it is admissible evidence to me. Should also note I hadn't completely caught up and missed your reasoning for Andy not being investigative.

Is there a reason you're ignoring us?

DDD is up in the air for me, but I think Nat was town and I get a good vibe from him.

So uh, yeah.

Is prohawk on your list? Because your list would be great if you dropped out the paranoia 3 and put prohawk on your list.

I'm starting to smell a chainsaw here... and by that i mean my town read on LLD is dropping...

Are you

kidding

me.

When morph the cat and Andrius's Neighborizer abilities were revealed, she claimed Neighborizer as well without prompting and with specific details. Scum don't do this kind of thing.

Saki claiming that he was playing anti-town because of her "you get powers later in the game" clause is a fakeclaim far beyond his skill level and the matching up with LLD's power SCREAMS town. Yes, there will be scum versions of that power, but the scum version is not Saki and is not LLD. Sakura claiming neighborizer after Andrius claimed was scummy as fuck because instead of truly counterclaiming, Sakura posted THIS:

and we got a town neighborizer?.... what in the fricken hell?!

This is not how town reacts. This is how scum reacts if they see a role that counterclaims their confirmable one.

Prohawk, Lynching you today is not Nacho's only goal today, just merely the most fun one for him. The words "a fiery death" and "I want him to be horrified to draw bullshit scum ever agfain" factored quite heavily into the conversation. Futhermore, he points out your

sakura hana vote was oppertunistic as fuck.

Oil's reasons boil down to:

• Too much tunneling to the exclusion of all else, particularly when that slot (MTC) is obv town to other townsfolk
  
• Hawk's timing of calling OilTycoons scum was too convenient considering they were protected.
  
• Hawk is seemingly ignoring OilTycoons.
  
• Hawk's Sakura Hana vote is opportunistic

Now this list actually scratches the surface at actual reasons of why someone would be scum, despite the erroneous accusations. Most of these I have addressed here. Regarding the opportunistic vote, I am not really seeing it aside from taking the opportunity to get a lynch since my primary read wasn't going anywhere. Other hops onto the wagon were waaay more suspect, particularly the following string of progression:

Okay seriously Sakura is like Townier than Nachyana, that post was ridiculously Town. Never ever

ever

lynch that slot. But--my brain.

This.

Blood pact?

Vote: Sakura Hana

110 posts later, and only four posts from Morph in between we go from - Never ever

ever

lynch that [Sakura] slot. To "Oh the Blood Pact!" lemme vote now.

Again I pose the question: Tell me again how my vote was more opportunistic than say MorphTheCat's?

I am too tired to drudge up Jabberwocks posts on me, and he isn't voting me yet anyhow which I do find to be strange given the heated words he sends my way Re: Today's lynch. Perhaps he could do me the favor of organizing it for me.

[ProHawk]

LLD's case on Sakura was wrong. Jabberwock's was right. Data was acquired.

What part of the case was wrong, which part of Jabber's case was right?

[ProHawk]

Jabber, the lack of pronoun wasn't meant to be a mud-sling and does not affect my read in you either way, except to say that I thought you were saying that you were saying something about yourself and not about myself which just results in confusion when analyzing posts. Use pronouns to be less ambiguous.

[ProHawk]

You're going to have to AtE me a whole lot harder

This wasn't for you moron, it was for the rest of the town to dwell on when I am dead. Your PoE is dumb when you have been swindled by "town" play, as if competent scum can't mirror it.

they would just keep Oil talking to them on the down-low I would think.

When Oil's reads are crap and they absolutely know it because they are scum? Keep dreaming.

FTR, Death-Tunneling is not a scum-tell.

[ProHawk]

I literally outlined point by point that the arguments about me are NOT REAL ARGUMENTS. Ironic that people are saying I am death-tunneling on Morph when there is

more than enough

scum-motivation to their posts and people are death-tunneling me. Just look at the votes and how many have moved this day. Pretty freaking hypocritical.

[ProHawk]

The fact that you have us as town, yet won't trust our read on him when WE HAVE A QT WITH THEM, THUS HAVE A CLOSER LOOK INTO THEIR MINDS THAN MOST OF YOU is strange

This camaraderie type of mentality is what is going to lose this game for town. I don't trust your reads when the evidence I have gathered speaks to the contrary when your read is based solely on your QT interaction. Even if you were confirmed town, it doesn't mean you are right. Just look at Oil Tycoons.

[ProHawk]

When I post everyone shuts up.

[ProHawk]

So you gonna vote for me Saki?

[ProHawk]

LLD, why are you not voting for Jabberwock?

[ProHawk]

For those of you who are town, by not trying to figure things out, you are thereby allowing scum to do the same and blend in. Quit being lazy!

[ProHawk]

Obviously

[ProHawk]

Well, I guess its good that Nacho is trying? But no surprise that it gets posted considering that Morph and Jabberwocky are both scum.

Hey Nacho, why don't you try something radical and see how MTC responds to that?

[ProHawk]

Guess you didn't think of that tho cause you are blind town reading them... is there a word for town-tunneling?

[ProHawk]

S
Why morph the cat is town:
~Cabd’s push on tippy is something that is not scum motivated, and something that Cabd wouldn’t do as scum because it makes his cred go die in a shithole that’s on fire. It fucks everything up for this hypothetical cabdscum for no good reason.
~The notion that Purpkin was also scumreading TIP shows he didn’t just pull it out of his ass, either.
~Nacho notes that the above arguments should be fucking unnecessary already, though.

Do you have experience with Ffery? She was a lot more engaged the last time I saw her as town. How about you take that angle, or rather rationalize that away.

How in the world is an easy mis-lynch not scum motivated?

- How about you explain how what just happened will screw up Cabd for life when he flips scum this game?

When did I ever say Morph was making the stuff up about TIP? This notion of - If I am scum-reading someone and My buddy over here is also scum-reading someone, then they are ABSOLUTELY SCUM. KILL IT WITH FIRE. BS is just that. BS. It is a scummy way of confirming your position while distributing the weight of the mis-lynch off of your shoulders. Ever hear of an easy lynch? Yeah. It was just exactly freaking that.

Unnecessary? Town-Tunneler

Your reads are all meta based, and they are easy to side-step. All you are doing is relying on your "buddy-buddy" with people you have played with and know. It's no wonder your scum read is on me of whom you have literally zero experience with.

[ProHawk]

~He notes that the tip mislynch was super great because it gave us so many great town reads. He mentions to never lynch Purpkin, Morph, Jabbers, Andy and we win the game.

This game would have been better off if you would have just stayed dead.

[ProHawk]

He mentions to never lynch Purpkin, Morph, Jabbers, Andy and we win the game.

And you people wonder why MorphtheCat has absolutely no qualms about posting for them.

[ProHawk]

Ever think thats maybe why you died the first night?

[ProHawk]

And that last post by morph was extremely confusing. If that was Cabd, this topic was discussed previously which is how he knows this. If it was ffery, the use of third person was odd, likewise with the use of third person from Nacho. Could have been the other dude in the hydra whose name escapes me, but he uses so much profanity, I am guessing not.

If it was indeed Cabd, the liklihood that the topic was brought up to decide who to kill N1 is EXTREMELY LIKELY. Kill that scum.

P-EDIT: Second to Last Post.

[ProHawk]

Because he is putting people into a NEVER LYNCH pile. You think that entire pile is free of scums? My reads say no, and if people give him any credence, then he is just contributing to losing this game.

[ProHawk]

unless you have some reasons that aren't full of shit for either morph or jabber scum you can go to sleep forever now kthnx

I could claim a freaking seer-guilty on MorphTheCat and you wouldn't believe me, you are so cute Nacho. You wouldn't recognize reasons that aren't full of crap if they hit you across the face.

If I am right and MTC is scum, I get to laugh you into the ground, 2x if MTC and Jabberwock end up scum together. If I am wrong, and MTC is town, I still get the satisfaction of knowing you can't read jack short of being buddies with someone and even then I think you are weak.

PS: You were slated to die N1. Your dumb real-town read on MTC came from D2. USE YOUR FREAKING HEAD!!

[ProHawk]

For the record, it wasn't a tone mis-match. Who wrote that post?

[ProHawk]

Morph The Cat:

Is playing an incredibly back-seat game.
Is backing extremely easy lynches while letting other people do the dirty work for them.
Used fake/forced reasoning to push me from town-null-scum (I realize this is mostly subjective and requires the knowledge of my alignment, but is easy to see from where I am sitting)
Used semantics and had odd/awkward responses to my inquiries into their play.
Refusing to explain why/show how my tunneling is indicative of being scum (this plays into the fake/forced reason point)

Nacho:

You seriously need to consider... of all the people that claimed Neighborizers, what are the odds that all of them are town?

[ProHawk]

Hey Jabberwock-scum dude. Get your vote on me so I can die and people can actually do something productive when they see me flip town.

[ProHawk]

Because Jabberwock. Pretending to want to Extend this day is dumb.

The people who haven't posted much haven't posted because they don't care/have the motivation/have been too busy and have a gigantic amount to catch up on. Regardless, you wouldn't be hammering, you would be putting me at L-1.

I have exhausted my lungs trying to get people to see things the way I do. IT IS NOT WORKING.

I need to flip so that people can redirect. Nacho can introspectively do a personal-mafia-self-inquisition to figure out where he keeps going wrong. And instead of me arguing with you, nacho, morph, and purpkin, D3 can start off on a fresh foot in likely LYLO and hopefully pull out a win from the depths which is unlikely considering the bang-up job scum is doing at fooling everyone.

P-EDIT: I am going to say it again. Tunneling is not a scum-tell. It isn't even a strategic scum-move. Again, use your head.

[ProHawk]

Prohawk, LLD took Saki/Sakura's self votes to be different in favor of sakitown and sakura scum. You took em as the same so why did you ask?

Why did I ask what? Make your posts coherent at least.

[ProHawk]

Hey Jabberwock, if I am scum, where is the counter wagon?

[ProHawk]

Because his experience/accuracy is based on people and personalities. These are two DYNAMIC things and are easily manipulated. Motivation however isn't.

I will need to re-read through some things to see what I missed, if there is any specific point you would like, pointing them out would be quicker.

I don't recall LLD's posts seeming contradictory like Jabberwocks that I mentioned. Could you give me a post number?

[ProHawk]

Also, name one time you nailed Cabd as scum please Nacho.

[ProHawk]

Because I recently did.

[ProHawk]

Now we are one for one. Next game please and you have me beat.

[ProHawk]

Well then your statement is false Nacho regarding Cabd.

Just so you know Nacho, you don't have many keys left before you get one right.

[ProHawk]

What exactly will my town-flip unlock for you anyway? Will it nail down scum, or just help with PoE?

[ProHawk]

I forgot to mention. Both Ffery and Cabd know I tunnel and they both choose to ignore that convenient fact. This makes them scum, or dumb.

[ProHawk]

Prohawk, nacho's love, you need to know this:

Nacho has over 10 games with ffery and he has not once read her incorrectly, or even anything close to like it. He has nailed her scumfuck ass to the wall several times. In popcorn mafia, he got her shot. In xenobvlade, he and mollie lynched the everliving fuck out of her day one. Every other game, he has known she's town by page 5 at the latest. If there's anyone in the world he knows he can read, it's ffery.

This post. It's not an issue of tonal difference. Who wrote this?

[ProHawk]

Don't give me this Day 3 crap. Its technically D2 with the way D1 went down, and there is more than enough evidence to prove you dirty, and you aren't dying, so there is that.

[ProHawk]

Glad to know its not all town on my wagon. Sound the intent, I will claim, you all can cry and I can die. Scum will rejoice. Next!

Doin a bang up job Deamon! I'm not scared, just mad that town is this moronic, but I suppose we deserve to lose with our horrendous play this game.

[ProHawk]

Naww, if town hammers me and not scum before I can claim I will have even more to rage at post-game. If scum hammers me before a claim... well I would hope you know what to do.

[ProHawk]

People do have lives. Chillax LLD.

I'm so god damn tired of this game, and people happy to live in the god damned status quo. "Oh yeah, I thought Jabberwock and Purpkin were obvious town day 1, so that must carry through for the rest of the game I don't ever need to change my reads nope nope nope I'm the bestest player ever!"

Makes me fucking sick.

Before I claim, I would like to +1 this a gazillion times. Although personally I would replace Purpkin with MorphTheCat... but thats just me.

I am Micaiah. I am a type of modified body-guard. I get to protect multiple targets/night based on the total number of players remaining. I don't really have a lot of time to delve into the gritty details of what Vi puts into the roles and can later if you want, but I protected

Jabberwock & DTM N1
Jabberwock & Purpkin N2

Feel free to hammer whenever, but Wocky and Morphy are scum and need to die. Thx.

[ProHawk]

But I don't see how he would need to sit on it right now as scum when he could just have hammered ProHawk if ProHawk is Town.

Ever think of him taking heat for hammering early? You with all of your white-holy-crusade against ending the day early surely would have thought him scum for doing-so amirite? Of course you wouldn't tho.

Oh yeah, my third scum-read is also Deamon.

[ProHawk]

Yeah my picks were pretty boring since I googled the theme
*sigh* town lost the minute I made my first post and my play was shit, sorry
I felt Daemon was pretty obviously scum towards the end
Vi, thanks for a great game which I enjoyed being a part of, I hope you mod more of these amazing games
But yeah, regarding the setup, I did feel it was geared towards one faction but that's the beauty of uPick I guess
And of course we want moar pics

Actually TIP, your lynch led me to MorphTheCat. Its too bad no one else was bright enough to see it as well.

[ProHawk]

Actually TIP, your lynch led me to MorphTheCat. Its too bad no one else was bright enough to see it as well.

Wuv you too, hawkie.[/quote]

Just know you can't hide from me Senor!

[ProHawk]

You realize that I said that because I had a strong feeling you were scum because you were still alive?

You're acting like you won this because you played super well and made big plays and planned things out.

and this could not be further from the truth. You got to sit there and watch as players handed you the game day after day.

So enjoy your win. Like I said, it's a scum win, not a town loss. No one should ever say "town lost this more than scum won it" because it takes away from scum victories.

But stop acting like it took any skill to win this game.

Sorry Cabd, but I have to agree with LLD here. While I agree you may have done a decent job of getting people to trust you outside of the thread, you did jack-squat in thread. And that boils down to again: a town loss because you had people who were buddying with you instead of using logic.

[ProHawk]

Town may have turned against each other hard core this game with paranoia

This is exactly what town

didn't

have which led to the loss IMO. Re: MTC couldnt be scum for outing they had a chat with a town-aligned player.

I just hope a few select people here have learned from this game to use less personality-tells and more scum-motivational tells.