Mini 1478 ~ Mafia Xenologue (Game Over!)

[Jabberwock]

Child, please.

Empire tried to troll me about our alignment and failed miserably. Why no, I have NOT been anxious for weeks about the prospect of hydraing with someone who hates being scum more than I do~

VOTE: Saki

[Jabberwock]

0

...

Please tell me you are trolling, Vi.

Bold tag fixed. ~Vi

[Jabberwock]

Friendly notice to all of you newcomers to Vi games: "true activity" is also a measure of the mod's happiness with the thread. That means that pointless bloating of the thread is not only incredibly annoying but can actually affect our deadline, and makes it much more frustrating to wade through useless posts. So please

do

dial back the spam. Yes, we know you're happy about the game starting, and we know you're happy about playing with certain people. You don't need multiple posts to say so without adding content.

[Jabberwock]

You're not even a real Dragon. -pout-

We're a Wondercritter. Way cooler than a dragon. (")(ºwº)(")

Hey Cabd. You know what we're expecting to see from you. I'll give you... five pages, give or take.

As for Natirasha, please shut up. There is very little gain in talking about such things in the open, as no one will be able to give you further info about how to use that ability, and there is nothing Town to be gained in learning if it's game-wide. Go read recent Vi games if you want to etc.

[Jabberwock]

You're not even a real Dragon. -pout-

We're a Wondercritter. Way cooler than a dragon. (")(ºwº)(")

Hey Cabd.

You know what we're expecting to see from you. I'll give you... five pages, give or take.

As for Natirasha, please shut up. There is very little gain in talking about such things in the open, as no one will be able to give you further info about how to use that ability, and there is nothing Town to be gained in learning if it's game-wide. Go read recent Vi games if you want to etc.

I thought this was just random pressure, but now that he has responded I want this explained.

It's not random. Have patience.

PEdit: Or that! ^_^ But Cabd--what do you think of Post 44? The other half is wondering if TIP actually believes that crap, but agrees with me that Post 48 is trash (and Post 41 was really freaking bad). Other head is having trouble differentiating between bad and scum, but I think this

does

remind me of Cold Stone.

[Jabberwock]

You're not even a real Dragon. -pout-

We're a Wondercritter. Way cooler than a dragon. (")(ºwº)(")

Hey Cabd.

You know what we're expecting to see from you. I'll give you... five pages, give or take.

As for Natirasha, please shut up. There is very little gain in talking about such things in the open, as no one will be able to give you further info about how to use that ability, and there is nothing Town to be gained in learning if it's game-wide. Go read recent Vi games if you want to etc.

I thought this was just random pressure, but now that he has responded I want this explained.

It's not random. Have patience.

PEdit: Or that! ^_^ But Cabd--what do you think of Post 44? The other half is wondering if TIP actually believes that crap, but agrees with me that Post 48 is trash (and Post 41 was really freaking bad). Other head is having trouble differentiating between bad and scum, but I think this

does

remind me of Cold Stone.

You know I'm not going to be ok with that. It's a two way street, give me a little to work with and I'll let it slide for now.

I thought it was obvious from the PEdit? I was waiting for Cabd's read on TIP.

[Jabberwock]

VOTE: TheIrishPope

And how about

you

talk about TIP, LLD?

[Jabberwock]

@Jabberwock, please sign your posts and explain your votes. Just for the sake of the Town.

Bahahahaha

No.

[Jabberwock]

@TIP:

Where have you played with Tierce to think that buddying her is a good Town strategy?

[Jabberwock]

@Jabberwock, I have played with Tierce on Skype on many occasions.

Point taken on Skype, but it is hardly "many occasions" and Skype play is not the same as forum play. Furthermore, the bit about buddying Tierce as a good Town plan is bullshit.

Where are you basing this Empire knowledge on?

Post 90 is all sorts of horrible. Just trying to paint Natirasha negatively without any sort of active analysis.

[Jabberwock]

@Natirasha, if I must be, I shall. I agree with your spirited Town sentiment, but you say it as if you are not part of the Town.

Hi.

Let me break down for y'all why this post sucks absolute ass. Putting aside the extremely forced and stilted way the post is written, the actual substance of it is the kind of lazy perspective-slip type of comment scum like to make because it's something easy to grab it and requires no actual insight whatsoever. It reminds me of the substanceless attacks I used to make way back when I was new and even worse at scum than I am now.

I could write long masturbatory walls that no one will ever read about the rest of his posts being full of vapid pro-town posturing (the bit about us not signing our posts made me laugh) but I'm still reeling from the effects of the Bar exam. Bug me about it tomorrow if you really want it but it should be self evident from his posts.

I hope you enjoyed my amazing and scintillating insight into this game!

(Also, agree with borktown.)

[Jabberwock]

Also, TIP:

Empire is a more laid back player, anyway. I am not worried about him.

This post clearly suggests you have knowledge of my play, so...?

[Jabberwock]

Who or what is Bork?

The half of the Purpkin hydra that's (I'm assuming) has written all the posts so far.

[Jabberwock]

I do not have any "Empire knowledge" as you so claim; could you elaborate on that?

"As you so claim"?

Empire is a more laid back player, anyway. I am not worried about him.

Why are you lying about meta knowledge? Explaining it away as an "overview" is crap, and you're now attempting to dodge the question by kicking the responsibility of describing Empire's playstyle away from you.

@Jabberwock, "many occasions" is an ambiguous term, don't you think? Let us say "several" times, as it feels like a compromise to me. I agree that Skype play is most definitely not the same as forum play but forum play reflects onto Skype play. Buddying Tierce is wonderful to me. Why does it bother you?

[...]

It's nice to say "Post X is horrible" without giving reason, but I don't see the Town motivation behind it. How are you helping us, Jabberwock?

*rests chin on claws*

The mix between buddying and attempts at mudslinging is really cute. Do keep going.

[Jabberwock]

The half of the Purpkin hydra that's (I'm assuming) has written all the posts so far.

Oh. Kay. Not saying I don't agree, but any particular reason why you're confident in that?

Several. But do explain why

you

, of all people, want Townreads explained.

[Jabberwock]

The half of the Purpkin hydra that's (I'm assuming) has written all the posts so far.

Oh. Kay. Not saying I don't agree, but any particular reason why you're confident in that?

Several. But do explain why

you

, of all people, want Townreads explained.

Perfect, thanks Empire! That's all I needed.

Wrong person and you should know it~ But you did not answer my question.

[Jabberwock]

The half of the Purpkin hydra that's (I'm assuming) has written all the posts so far.

Oh. Kay. Not saying I don't agree, but any particular reason why you're confident in that?

Several. But do explain why

you

, of all people, want Townreads explained.

Perfect, thanks Empire! That's all I needed.

Wrong person and you should know it~ But you did not answer my question.

Whatttttt. See this is why I want your posts signed. I thought you were Empire pulling out his meta on me.

As an answer, it was two pronged. Firstly, I just wanted to know if you had a particularly strong reason for the read, or if it was GUT! >=D.

Secondly, because I thought it was Empire, I wanted to test his reaction to me asking him about the reasons on one of his town reads. I'm notorious for advocating that it's anti-town to explain town reads. I figured if he was town he'd say something like that.

See, that is bullshit. For several reasons--if we were scum and it was Empire, I would have warned him about it. If we were Town (hi!), we are both known for explaining our Townreads and do so regardless of what we think, we are not here to appease you. And finally, it was a loaded question from you--given a direct, innocent response would be painted as scummy from you, when we both have solid established meta of explaining Townreads regardless of alignment.

Or, to put it in other words, you're doing a boring "haha reaction test" backpedal.


You're still not explaining where that Empire description came from, TIP.

[Jabberwock]

EBWOP:

regardless of what

you

[LLD]

think

[Jabberwock]

It's not my job to convince you that you're wrong Tierce, but for the sake of other people I happen to know that Empire has said in the past he thinks he knows how to read me, and has done extensive meta searches on me. I find it very very likely that town!Empire would have used that opportunity to try and catch me in a contradiction of my own basic pro-town principles.

Where as town!Tierce just doesn't know how to read me for jack shit, so it's far less telling from you. It's also why I'm not going to bother spending the time convincing you I'm town, when I could be killing scums.

That does not explain why you questioned us about a Tonwread in the first place, when you

know

we have meta knowledge of you and can dodge that question regardless of alignment. It was a pointless question.

@Jabberwock, someone told me. I like to know my player list before I jump into a game.

Who was it and why did it take you so long to answer a question with a simple, direct answer and instead kept being evasive and asking Empire to describe himself?

DTM: "Problems"? Cabd didn't ignore our questions and our debating of a TIP scumread, he answered them here:

It doesn't match his profile in cold stone to a T,but quite a bit of overlap is there. He hasn't done any of his random stupid shit. Town TIP always does something dumbassish on page one. And he claims his "new and improved" ways only when convenient.

44 is the "tip being serious" post that sent off alarm bells actually. Compare 26 in coldstone.

Jabbers, if the mara head of purpkin, when she gets online, agrees with me, I'm more than confident enough to run him up all the way. Between the two of us, we can read him transparently.

As for our read on Cabd/morph the cat, leaning Town, but nothing strong there and it wouldn't be beyond Cabd to bus TIP since he knows Tierce and Ms Marangal know he can read TIP well.

Our LLD read has nothing to do with our TIP case...? We did not use LLD's posts to comment on TIP. We think they are both scum.

As for this:

Openly admitting it though - is brazen. My feels tell me that I'm obsessing over a conflict of theory (at first) since it reads scummy, but the actual action itself contradictary to what I'd expect from scum.

This is what Empire thought at first, but the rest of TIP's ISO is appallingly scummy regardless. Tierce thinks that post was alignment-null and that it is something that scum can post just fine. Admit to it, it's not going to cost you any points, and makes you look better because omg honesty is Townish, right?

[Jabberwock]

@Natirasha, post more before you die.
I personally feel the dayvig was fake.

Oh,

do

keep going.

@Jabberwock, if you haven't noticed, RQS is all about reactions. You'll thank me when we reach LyLo. I cannot disclose the name of this person nor would I if I had the capability of doing so HOWEVER I may only say that this person is in this game.
@Lady, wow, I can't believe you misinterpreted me. Feeling a post is scummy is not the same as having a scum read on someone. Do not make assumptions, for they hurt Town. Only applicable if you are Town.

If you did not break site rules by talking about players after the game has started, it's fine to disclose it. Going to roundabout away and hinting at the person being in the game is just stupid--it's like thinking that using "[redacted]" means you found a really smart loophole to talk about ongoing games. Why on Earth is it a problem to disclose someone's "overview" opinion on Empire?

And for someone who keeps describing Tierce as a good player, your condescension is rather jarring.

I still really really dislike the little disclaimers TIP keeps applying here and there. These "only applicable if you're Town" snippets are useless posturing.


DTMaster: What do you mean about Cabd checking in before post 100? Was it the "I'll give you 5 pages" bit? We've clarified this already; Cabd is good at reading TIP, and we were giving him up to 5 pages to make a decision on that slot.

The main thing that, to me, rang as being really off from TIP was the pointless questions. They're made to look like content; "wow look at all these reactions I'm getting they are so useful". They're not, he's not really making anything from it, but is painting himself as this paragon of Town usefulness while trying to bring others down (see the post in which he wanted us to sign our posts and explain our vote, followed by a version of "what are you doing to be useful to this Town, Jabberwock" or some variation thereof). He was in friendly jokey mode and could have stayed there

while not spamming

, but felt the urge to show his work. This is similar behavior to what he showed in the recently finished Cold Stone Open, and was the main reason Cabd (as MC Maraca) scumread him in that game.

[Jabberwock]

@Jabberwock, there are no broken site rules. What are you on about?

That you should not have any problem at all saying who it was that said that Empire is a laid-back player, regardless of whether this person is in the game, and that you should not have taken several posts of dodging to come out with how you have this knowledge. You keep addressing minor points to dodge the crux of matters brought up against you.

[Jabberwock]

@DTM:

I had the same knee-jerk reaction to #73 that you had but when I spoke to Tierce about it what she said made perfect sense - it's an easy way to gain towncred as scum and it doesn't take much in the way of competence or experience to post. While I'm here, though, what's your read on LLD (particularly interested here since I think I remember you guys having played with each other a bit in the past when I sifted through ancient meta)?

---

Anyway, if I'm scum, then I must be bussing TIP. So let's go ahead and kill his ass dead, and we can have this discussion tomorrow.

If you don't mind, I actually really want to have this discussion now.

I have a few reasons for reading bork as town but one of them involved me agreeing with his #76. I'd read your questions up until that point (and a bit beyond) and I don't really see how any of them would illicit alignment-indicative replies.

For example, I thought your focus in #65 was really weird. The bork/TIP exchange had been decently developed by that point and the bolded just seemed like a pretty small thing to highlight or dig into (personally, I thought TIP's remark there was some throwaway facetious thing). Maybe it's because I'm tired or something but I read over that question and thought about possible responses TIP could have given and I don't really see what TIP could have said that would have given you some insight into his alignment. I have the same problem with #74 too. I just don't really see what the point of those questions were.

Anyway, I know it's probably frustrating to do, but can you walk me through what you were going for there?

(P.S.: I haven't taken a shot at the VN yet, but I wasn't a fan of the Umineko anime personally.)

[Jabberwock]

That would be telling. This person respects his or her privacy.

Yeah, this person who is in this game can't probably bear to let others know that this person thinks Empire is a laid-back player. I know, it's a terrible, weighty knowledge to have!

This

still

does not explain why you spent several posts dodging even saying that "someone undisclosed told me Empire is a laid-back player" when asked

where does this knowledge came from

. You kept beating back the subject by asking Empire to describe himself and telling us it was just an "overview" and that you have no real "knowledge" of Empire.

Why

were you not upfront on this matter when asked a direct question? You're trying to dodge the hell out of anything relevant you're asked.


PEdit: HI ANDY YOUR HOBBITS ARE ALL DEAD AND YOUR DICE MATH STILL SUCKS

[Jabberwock]

Look into Purpkin, I know Town Mara would never say that, especially in only three lines to get me lynched easily and quickly. My Town flip will confirm Mara scum, good luck and have fun.

bahahahaha

[Jabberwock]

Hi

Mara here

and I agree with TIP scum

Okay guys, no more hesitation. Run the fucker up.

Slow down C

TIP is scum, but that doesn't mean we can do stuff without half the player-base not here in thread yet

Lets find his partners and have everyone else view the thread first

Look into Purpkin, I know Town Mara would never say that, especially in only three lines to get me lynched easily and quickly. My Town flip will confirm Mara scum, good luck and have fun.

[Jabberwock]

Well. Vi is always complaining that people don't lynch quickly enough. If you're Town, sorry. If you're scum, good riddance and style points for doing it in less than 10 pages~

Andy is obvious Town if TIP is scum--he would have checked the votes before risking placing a vote on his buddy, and the vast majority of Vi games have Daytalk. Probably still Town regardless of TIP's flip, but if he's scum then this is obvious.

Purpkin still Town, Cabd more or less. Our reads are a bit in flux and the other half sulked off to play Castlevania.

TIP--your role? Vi games tend to be only partial reveal (see Maf.Maiden for evidence), so knowing it now would be dandy.

[Jabberwock]

Also, FYI, Vi should be around to lock the thread in (expired on 2013-08-02 07:00:00) or a bit earlier, so get things out of the way before then. Don't panic.

LLD, one moment.

[Jabberwock]

I hate walls

TIP it's still not too late to say hi.

Hey there. Why don't you have a hint of content so far?

[Jabberwock]

JABBERWOCKKKK

READ AND RESPOND TO THAT NICE BIG POST I WAS SO NICE TO TAKE THE TIME TO MAKE FOR YOU.

THANKSSSSSS

We've read it, but we're not quite sure what you want us to respond to.

[Jabberwock]

JABBERWOCKKKK

READ AND RESPOND TO THAT NICE BIG POST I WAS SO NICE TO TAKE THE TIME TO MAKE FOR YOU.

THANKSSSSSS

Yeah, thanks for that. I still have to think about things and regardless of what TIP flips I'm actually really really annoyed because at least two slots haven't even fucking checked into this game yet and my reads are still coagulating.

P-edit: ninja'd by my other head, what the hell

[Jabberwock]

TIP--your role?

Vi games tend to be only partial reveal (see Maf.Maiden for evidence), so knowing it now would be dandy.

Please don't go away without giving us this.

[Jabberwock]

tip are there any scumreads of yours that aren't mostly omgus

Nice job with that negative figure of the dead guy. Given that most of the people who have posted voted him, how do you expect his reads not to have a part of OMGUS?

(Hint: Post 222 still wasn't content.)

Jacob, I want to know what character you chose

This is blatantly useless. We want to know his role because Vi games tend to not flip roles explicitly, but

characters are flipped explicitly

. What the heck are you doing?

[Jabberwock]

Stop focusing on the baddies and focus on meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I'm tired, hungry and we had a hammer early in the game. You'll probably be around Tomorrow and you were the one who said one of this hydra's heads can't read you. So, huh, wait a while longer?


Even with the game's short life time, it really bothers me that Saki only comes back to the thread when all's said and done and yet keeps posting nothing of worth. There are plenty of non-walls in the game, but damned if he should comment on any of those short posts--no, we just have complaints about those terrible walls.

[Jabberwock]

Stop focusing on the baddies and focus on meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I'm tired, hungry and we had a hammer early in the game. You'll probably be around Tomorrow and you were the one who said one of this hydra's heads can't read you. So, huh, wait a while longer?


Even with the game's short life time, it really bothers me that Saki only comes back to the thread when all's said and done and yet keeps posting nothing of worth. There are plenty of non-walls in the game, but damned if he should comment on any of those short posts--no, we just have complaints about those terrible walls.

Don't get saucy with me, you :<.

I don't see how you being able to read me has anything to do with me wanting to hear your response to my response in this discussion. I feel hearing your response benefits my read on you more than it benefits your read on me.

But like I said, I'm torn between giving you that extra time because I'm a nice kitty, or pressuring you because it was your other head who wanted the discussion done right Meow.

Come now. The Wondercritter is obvTown, and I don't see what response you want from

me

. I scumhunt by intent too, but that whole discussion wasn't spurred by me, and I don't see anything in it that you wouldn't say as scum either, so :hitoshrug:.

As for my other head, he's off sulking and playing Castlevania. Some people drink to forget, others etc. We'll talk Tomorrow if we're around.

[Jabberwock]

Also, you know just as well as I do that calling yourself obv-town ain't gonna fly with this kitty dragon. I gotta convince myself... myself.

Then start reading the game? My scumgame has improved, but not by a whole lot, and you're deluded if you think Empire and I would be working this hard at the game if we were scum. (Our first scum game as a hydra is going to be a miserable, miserable experience.)

I have to agree with Post 240, that sequence was awesome. Start reading, Syryana--you have something like 3 hours before Vi wakes up.

[Jabberwock]

TIP - definite scumfuck, good guy to quickhammer if yer gonna, would have loved some more baselines first tho

What do you make of his post-hammer behavior?

Also, cookies and puppies are true activity, so.

[Jabberwock]

TIP? I was considering upgrading him from "would DayVig" to "policy lynch" until I realized he was refusing to claim anything at all about his role. Which led me to realize since he got hammered after Vi went to bed, he's got no fakeclaim. Which is my only conceivable reason for him claiming nothing, including flavor.

I like you. Keep posting puppies and we'll keep you around. (ºwº)/)

But the fakeclaim bit doesn't work like that. In Vi games, players traditionally receive safeclaims from the start, so he shouldn't have a problem with fakeclaiming. So--what's your next theory?

[Jabberwock]

Hrmm.... Well, he's being anti-town as shit not claiming anything, obv. Why? Hellfino.

TIP is not used to Vi games, though--might be expecting himself to flip/not care/whatever. Town being bitter post-hammer is extremely frustrating to the rest of the game, and he's not posting on-site and wasn't posting by the time I asked him to claim. Yeah, it's anti-Town, but it's not necessarily coming from scum and I don't want to make associations based off that conclusion when his bitterness post-hammer felt somewhat genuine.

LLD, this one's for you:

[Jabberwock]

Also #199 might be a scumslip with that "there is scum outside of us" comment.

How?

The way I read it was "hey TIP, you only have this one scumread (Purpkin). Where are your other scumreads?"

[Jabberwock]

Whatever, he's lynched, so etc.

As for Saki--yeah. Whining about walls and making no further effort to participate in the game in a way that might be revealing of alignment means noose goes (>")> thataways.

[Jabberwock]

Dat Vi read too good, Syryana. Someone's going to be annoyed at us for 10+ pages overnight--by the by, I'm fully expecting only to see a flip tomorrow night.

The other head has decent meta on LLD, but that'll have to wait.

[Jabberwock]

Hey fferyllt.

Right about now is the time where you want to start being really obvious Town. You, not Cabd. That guy is boring.

[Jabberwock]

Please don't play dumb, LLD. Don't tell me that it wasn't the first thing you checked in a Vi FE game.

0

...

Please tell me you are trolling, Vi.

Previous Fire Emblem game.

[Jabberwock]

Yes?

[Jabberwock]

You mean you were poisoned? Why the heck has Syryana been online and not mentioned this before? Why are you not replying to DTMaster when he says he has something on Saki due to the lack of Nightkill?

tl;dr you're faking a scumread on me +

omg I am living on borrowed time

so I will vomit obvTown all over the thread ASAP. I've already done so. So stop being boring and go read D1, it's not like it's a long read.

[Jabberwock]

Hey fferyllt we're still waiting on you contributing stuff proactively instead of asking for things.

[Jabberwock]

We are Marth. Our first ability is "I say when it ends!" which means that if we would be nightkilled, we will instead die at the end of the next day. We got a message this morning saying we will die at the end of today. We were nightkilled during the night.

Sucks to be you. What was so urgent about reading us (when you and us are a typical N1 kill regardless of who is scum) that it couldn't wait for you to see Syryana's read on me + our posts on D1 + tell DTMaster he's wrong?

tl;dr you're faking a scumread on me + omg I am living on borrowed time

"we got killed last night and i'm a tiny bit paranoid that you killed me"
is a declaration that should not result in
"you're faking a scumread on us with 'living on borrowed time!'" crap

it is a declaration that should result in
"how do you know you were killed last night? why aren't you dead if you were killed? why the hell would you ever have a scumread on me because I am town as fuck?"
questions, not poor suspicions. please don't tell me you truly are scum, tierce.
also where is empire?

I assumed a pseudo-claim of Poison effect--you said you were going to die at the end of the Day. Try again. You're the kind of person who says he wants to fake scumreads on me to force me to look absurdly Town. First assumption is that you are being lazy (or pretend to be) to force me to look Town ASAP--"we only have until the end of the Day so get going". But it bothers me that you come in with this when Syryana has already made plenty clear that he thinks we are Town (in a way that

also

bothers me because it's almost a carbon copy of his immediate read on me in Maf.Raptured), and I

did tell you

to go read D1 because we

are

Town as fuck. Plus you didn't post images of puppies.

Empire is doing whatever. Probably sleep. I don't expect normal people to be awake before 1 pm when they don't have obligations.



I want a bullet between Saki's eyes just on principle. Good grief.

[Jabberwock]

or my vote is staying for the rest of today

What a truly terrifying thought.

No, he's not going to explain. And he shouldn't have to. Coming in on D2 saying "this person is probably scum because of a missed NK" is as Town as it gets. What does he have to gain if he's scum, regardless of your alignment? "Hahaha, sorry, I got it wrong, my bad, don't lynch me Tomorrow!" Scum don't open

D2

with a partial claim and a guilty, and a partial claim and a guilty

on you

. It's high risk and low reward for scum. You're incredibly lynchable in this game if you're Town. Would scum DTMaster put himself in the line of fire to push a mislynch on one of the easiest lynches in the playerlist? No. Would I be wary if he claimed this on Oil Tycoons? Yes, because that would be

high reward

. Scum don't claim guilties on D2 to lynch people who are most likely already going to be lynched.

[Jabberwock]

Whatever, Nacho. I don't really have the patience and I'm not going to exhaust myself looking all pristine for your sake. If you're living on borrowed time, start analyzing what is available.

[Jabberwock]

Tierce-scum

You have to be delusional if you think this is Tierce-scum after Stack the Deck.

[Jabberwock]

*deep breath*

Sorry. I've been in a lousy mood for the past few days due to a deranged sleep schedule or lack thereof. The way that Yesterday turned out doesn't help, and we have very few appreciable reads in this game. Nacho opening this game with what read like an elaborate gambit to try and push me when I'm already obvTown irritates me further, especially because it read as a distraction on DTMaster's push on Saki. Saki being whatever

really

irritates me further. I've been on edge about Mafia and it shows, and I feel like pulling an Empire and going off to sulk after that D1 quickhammer.

I'm not about to appease you, Nachyana. My role PM tells me I don't need to, and our play Yesterday should be evidence enough and I don't need that lovely Nacho Townread that carries me the rest of the game. But if you are

truly

going to die at the end of the Day, we should pool efforts. Why are morph the cat Town?

[Jabberwock]

And yes, I do draw N1 kills, but it is a tiny bit strange that I drew the N1 kill when I was not around (Syr made it into thread AFTER the lynch) when power players such as Tierce were around and doing things and apparently obvtown. So this is essentially Syr and I establishing ourselves as confirmed town who are reaching out to Tierce/Empire with the promise of protecting them with our dying breath so that we can lynch all of the scum together, which is sort of how I imagined this game.

...

THAT is the strangeness. I'm not talking to a wall, Nacho. The fact that it was strange and the fact that this is the kind of stuff you pull to get me to act is what made me conclude this was a gambit. Which would be a really ridiculous conclusion to make if I were scum--it's convoluted paranoia, and while I

have

faked paranoia as scum, this was rather off-the-wall.

when your reaction to us being nightkilled during the night but being alive today being "sucks for you" when it should be "that's awesome let's wreck this game together" is something that needs to be pursued.

If you were genuinely killed and are alive, yes, then yay. It was the gambit vibe that was annoying. Put yourself in my position. You're obvTowning, you

KNOW

you are obvious Town (Empire actually congratulated me in looking Town from our first post, so yay for that ^_^), the Day ends in a derp lynch on someone you had a scumread but was less than 24h in with several missing players, we go into Night with few established reads, and then someone who has been known to bug you about your Townieness comes into the next Day with what looks for all practical effects like a gambit that derails a good Town push and puts distracting pressure on me instead of bothering to read the evidence already in the thread. THAT is annoying and frustrating. But okay, you're not gambiting, sucks you're going to die, but yay you're alive for now. I need a few moments to

not

be stewing about this. (Puppies would help, hint hint.)

You wouldn't have to deal with this if you didn't break my heart, but betrayal always comes with a price <3

Well you did say you didn't think YOLOville was my breakthrough scum game~

Quote tag fixed. ~Vi

[Jabberwock]

@Vi: Fix my quote tag, pretty please? Here's payment in advance:

[Jabberwock]

I still need an explanation why morph the cat are Town. Post 396 helps, but engh. DTMaster and Purpkin are obvious Town, but that is, er, obvious.


I like that there are only 10 puppies in that image. Scum don't get puppies. I'll take the butt-sniffing one on the top left.

[Jabberwock]

I don't see town motivation behind a partial claim.
Even if he is wrong about the guilty I still think he's scum.

This bothers me a lot. It's the phrasing. "Even if he's wrong"--wouldn't Saki-Town KNOW that DTMaster is wrong?


Tierce won't be the one helping you with LLD, ffery.

[Jabberwock]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Why do you assume that my walls are alignment-relevant when in the same breath you say you haven't seen me as Town before?

[Jabberwock]

Other head here reporting in. Just woke up and I'm slowly making my way through this thread so expect this catch up to come in chunks.

Share?

Alright, I guess it's time for the first edition of...

Lady Lambdadelta: A Primer

SCUM:

Mafia Through a Puppy's Eyes - I remember scumreading her while this game was ongoing. A large part of that was basically because it seemed like she was actively lurking and only jumping into the conversation when people called her out on it (see the string of posts starting with #162). Aside from that, nothing else is really remarkable. She's generally a lot more image conscious in this game than I usually see in her scum games and that's something I tend to see a lot from competent scum (it's the only way I know how to read petapan for example). #467 in particular is written with a level of detail that I don't think I'd expect from her as town and I get the impression she just wrote that to give off the appearance of townieness.

War is Hell - Again, the same pattern tends to come up here. The impression I got from LLD when I first followed this game (and from rereading now) is that she seemed a lot more concerned with justifying herself and with just appearing pro-town. Take a look at the level of detail in her Matt read and the unprompted overjustification she provides in posts like #254 and I think you'll see what I mean.

TOWN:

/in-vitational 14 - Reading her ISO, I think you can pretty clearly see the difference. LLD isn't totally transparent with her reasoning for stuff -- in this game, she opens the game tunneling TML's slot without really explaining why and just kinda forces other people to figure it out; I think as scum she'd have presented it right off the bat. She's incredibly persistent with her questions (#42) which is something I don't really see with her scum games either - she's more willing to either drop lines of questioning or doesn't bother with them at all. The way she approaches her Matt scumread in WiH makes it seem like she's not really interested in trying to figure out his alignment (or anyone else's for that matter), whereas you can see her trying to use her TML vote as a springboard to figure out what other people are doing.

Purified Mafia - This one's a bit old but it's the only other relevant town game of her's I remember reading. Mainly the same stuff I pointed out above but I just wanted to point out here that in this game she's not above antagonizing other people (like Majiffy here) and I don't think she'd really do that as scum or at least not to the extent she does so in that game.

LLD in this game:

Well...I don't know. Part of the reason we had a scumread on LLD early on was meta-based. Like I said, at the time, a lot of those questions seemed to not really go anywhere and I got the impression that she was just asking them to look town. But her big wall-response in #184 made me think she was being genuine in her scumhunting process here. Tierce thinks she can fake that kind of post as scum easily but I still get town vibes from it. Antagonizing Tierce a la #141 also looks good in light of her meta above. Going over her ISO in this game again, I don't get the feeling that she's stuffing up her posts with needless overjustification or that she is uninterested in people's alignments. So I'll say leaning town because I'm a huge baby.

[Jabberwock]

So yeah i read through the thread, and I would say that I would have agreed with the TIP lynch (since at the time I didn't know his alignment)

What exactly would you have agreed with with regards to the TIP lynch? If it's stuff that other people have posted, can you please specify?

also where is empire?

I was sleeping. I don't have anything to do with my life at the moment because I just got done taking the single most important and difficult exam of my life and I'm just waiting for the results. I know that I'm extremely awesome and ownage and that being town requires me to post like 500 times in the thread because all I can think about is the game and no one would be able to read me otherwise but I think you guys can wait just a

little

bit longer for me to actually do things. I'm still pretty fucking annoyed that I barely even got to play yesterday and I didn't have any strong reads but they're starting to form right now. I'll talk them over with you guys after I let the thread marinate in my mind for a bit.

[Jabberwock]

P.S.: Tierce obvtown'd herself on our slot's first post of the game, you need to step up your game dude.

[Jabberwock]

OK, Nacho/Syryana, a couple of things before I go out to eat:

1) What's your current read on the Purpkin slot?

2) I can get behind your townread on Donald Fagen's wonderful 2006 solo album but I don't think I really buy the Andrius town-read. His hammer and subsequent reaction to it seem way too easy for a player of his competence to fake. Is there anything else in his posts that make you think he's town or is that it? There's something I want to ask Tierce about that's very largely meta-based though.

I'll post my current reads when I get back. They're still in the incubation stage but I think we can go somewhere with them.

[Jabberwock]

How much Meta do you have on Andrius!scum?

Not a whole lot unfortunately. If I remember correctly, all his recently completed games are town-games so I don't have a strong basis for comparison.

[Jabberwock]

I can't help but laugh at my percieved competence.
Sorry to break it to you, Tierce, but I'm actually an idiot.

(Psst, it was me, Empire, not Tierce. Every single post on this last page has been me.)

---

Just got back and here are the reads I have that haven't already been talked about by me. Haven't had the chance to talk to Tierce about these but she can add onto this whenever she gets back.

Natirasha:

Up until the fake dayvig, I wasn't a big fan of his ISO because it included a lot of setup/mechanics spec and very little in the way of actual reads or proactive scumhunting. However, I actually really liked his reaction to the dayvig and #350 read super genuine to me. It's the kind of self deprecating post I see come from town who feels like they're getting nowhere in a game far more often than from scum. Scum usually just feel the need to BS reads and produce all sorts of fake scumhunting content so admitting straight up that he doesn't really know what he's doing here re: scumhunting is something I think he's far more likely to do as town than as scum.

DTMaster:

Mostly due to his behavior surrounding the roleblock. I know most people get why he's town from that but to make clear from my perspective, him thinking he caught scum due to the missing nightkill and retreating from it after Oil's claim was super genuine in that I don't really see any benefit to setting up a potential mislynch in Saki that he'd have to answer for quickly the following day. The only way I could see him being scum is if he's scum with Saki and he was trying to bus for cred but I don't see that as super likely.

Sakura Hana:

The reason I asked about #353 is that I saw that post as a potential towntell -- I don't think Sakura would have voiced approval of the TIP mislynch after the fact and that it's far more likely she would have said she didn't know/had no opinion (easy to fake considering she didn't even post during the Day 1) or would have tried to distance herself from it in some other way.

Unvote

- I hope Tierce doesn't mind but I'm not really a fan of the Sakura wagon right now and I don't really have any strong scumreads at the moment. I want to spend a little time getting acquainted with Saki's and Andrius's meta and thinking about other things (namely, morph's play and the one content post ProHawk has) before dropping another vote down.

[Jabberwock]

@ph
would you trust sakura's metaread on me then? she has at least five games with me

Erm, why are you asking ProHawk to trust the meta-read of a player you're voting?

[Jabberwock]

Oh thank fuck, I was going to go absolutely apeshit over there being another very short day.

Anyway, Nacho/Syryana, let me know what you guys think re: the questions I asked you earlier, really want the answers to those.

[Jabberwock]

That Mia looks very Apocalyptical. Let's not say Judgmental, because etc.


Also we have a vote on the wings but would like them answers first.

Let me help things along:

[Jabberwock]

Something I forgot until this morning:

Don't refer to your abilities by their given name, please. This doesn't matter with Syrymamma's first ability since it has already been triggered, but Vi games have a tendency to have scum abilities that negate roles that become

too

known.

When I say "given names", I mean things like "I say when it ends!". Don't make that public. Talk about the effect all you want (roleblocker, bus driver, neighborizer, what have you), but keep the ability's flavor name off the thread.

Wondercritter over and out.

[Jabberwock]

also, Tierce/Emp I would appreciate it if you didn't use that "I was so Obv town D1 that I shouldn't even be looked at now" argument because I don't like it when people use it, and It's making me think that you guys could be scum this game.

(Oh, you sweet summer) child, please.

We don't care if you don't like it. We were telling Nacho and Syryana to go look back at it, because we

have

been obvTown. Oh no, we are aware of our meta, that means we can manipulate it! Yeah, no. Haven't you played with Regfan before? Haven't you seen him insist he is obvTown when he is Town? We're like Regfan, only prettier and less -ish. Haven't you played with me in Skype Mafia and seen me claim I'm obvTown pretty much regardless of alignment? You're complaining because you don't like the obnoxious bluntness of being freaking sure we

are

obvTown, but to be obnoxiously blunt, we are freaking sure we

are

obvTown and you can just deal with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jabberwock]

The dragonish coils love you too~

[Jabberwock]

Pretty boring answers from where I'm standing, Messieurs Tycoon.

We actually think Sakura is Town. But Post 465 was not written by someone with a Town wincon.

VOTE: Saki

[Jabberwock]

What in the name of seven fucks has Sakura as a townread for you two?

Sakura's reaction to the lynch. We feel she would have been more awkward around it (see Monsieur Daemon385 for the ideal of scummy posturing beauty) if she were scum. Plus, the interaction with Saki--especially Saki's 465; they are not scum together.

[Jabberwock]

Sakura Hana: The reason I asked about #353 is that I saw that post as a potential towntell -- I don't think Sakura would have voiced approval of the TIP mislynch after the fact and that it's far more likely she would have said she didn't know/had no opinion (easy to fake considering she didn't even post during the Day 1) or would have tried to distance herself from it in some other way.

This? srs? Considering I came in right after the lynch and voiced my support it's not exactly unimaginable she did the same thing. You're really ignoring all the bloody scumtells in favor of a nulltell? Like the fact she can't come up with a single read, or that she has no comment on anything or anybody? The fencesitting? No?

no kidding they aren't scum together, hence Saki-VI and Sakura-scum. You were in bloody 501, you really think this is her townplay?

You came in after the lynch and voiced your support

pre

-flip. She did it after, and she's much less experienced than you. As for not providing any decent amount of reads, granted, but it's not like she bothers to do so in any case, she's a young little lamb; go read Open 501 again. (And that is a game I would be wary of when using it to meta someone and so should you, because we had confirmation bias on alignments.) Now, seriously--go read Post 465. That post is absurd. Saki is asking ProHawk to trust Sakura Hana's meta Townread on her. Saki is scumreading Sakura Hana at that point. No matter how good Sakura Hana is at reading Saki, that is not the train of thought of a Town player--to ask someone else to trust

your scumread's read

on you. There's a logical leap there that does not make sense if Saki is Town.

(FWIW, I don't think 465 speaks to ProHawk's alignment, and it is weird that Saki appeals to ProHawk in particular and disregards others when asking him to trust Sakura Hana's meta read.)

[Jabberwock]

I still would think Saki's town, but the thing is, he could be changing his scum meta to fit with his town meta. But that wouldn't make any sense because then he would start getting lynched all the time since his town meta appears more scummy than his scum meta. This is why I think Saki's town this game.

Uh, no?Thing is, point the first, your metaread isn't all that correct. Point the second, even if he prefers playing scum, the majority of his games are Town, so if he wants to play to win and not get lynched, he has to improve his Town game and start scumhunting; the excuse that "being lazy is his Town meta" really doesn't fly and you should stop using it as a pass. Point the third, when you say being lazy is his Town meta,

what do you think he's going to do in his scum games

?

[Jabberwock]

No, Syr. Go look at the follow-up from Saki when my other head calls him out on it. He thinks Sakura Hana should be able to read him; he's asking ProHawk to Townread him because clearly Sakura Hana is good at this bsns of reading really basic meta.


PEdit: Okay you can be Town.

[Jabberwock]

Hmm. Could DTM be a scum roleblocker?

This is BS testing the waters after not deigning to acknowledge your post and my post on how DTMaster is Town, Syr. Also, 544 is laughable, given that any Town player who wanted to essentially CC DTMaster on the cause of the missing death would be speaking up, and makes no sense for DTMaster-scum to sacrifice himself to get Saki lynched. He's ignoring all these points because it's convenient; he's not interested in figuring out DTMaster's motivations beyond "omg he's scum going after meeeeee", which is pathetic.

[Jabberwock]

If that's true then the whole more reason you're scumbuddy with him due to him wanting to clear you as town.
^
Also replies DTM's question.

How does this jive with DTM claiming to get Saki lynched?

He didnt claim to get him lynched? he said "Oh hey i RB'd Saki but someone still got shot, so Saki's town".

Also, Syr--look at this post. If Sakura were scum, she'd be aware that he shot you. She'd be aware that you're not dead (yet). She'd be aware that DTMaster didn't make such a post, because of the timing of your claim and the fact that

you're not dead yet

. She's not scum, she wasn't involved in your death, this reads as natural ignorance of the chain of events.

[Jabberwock]

My god,

how dare Sakura Hana not post for a few hours?! Bugger off. Trying to pass her absence off as lurking when D1 was

nine hours long

is abject BS.

[Jabberwock]

Ok so it feels like there's been a bit of stuff posted and I'm a little pressed for time at the moment so here's a nice little catch-up post for now. To be honest, I glazed over the Sakura-Saki stuff over the last few pages so I'll give it a deeper look when I get back.

*cracks knuckles*

Jabberwock's town, you're town, Lady's town, Sak's null leaning scum, DTM's null leaning scum, everyone else's null.

Wait, how is Saki null-leaning-scum for you after you've spent all this time talking about how his play so resembles his town meta? What made you change your mind?

You know I think I’ve made arguments like this far more as scum than I have as town because the “haha reaction test” backpedal has basically no correlation with scum in my book but it certainly sounds good.

Your experience is way different from mine, then. From what I've seen, it tends to be a go-to excuse for scum when called out on something that doesn't make sense or sounds like bullshit. Thing is, at least with this head re: LLD at the time, I misread the sequence of events and I missed #112 which came before she was called out by my other head.

Too much Empire posting, probably scum.

WOW Nacho, you fucker, I thought you loved me. </3

You see a towntell where I see a scumtell... commenting on the lynch after the fact is completely useless and is usually just empty content; mbf did it when we lynched TiP in Duck Duck Goose and it was scummy as fuck then, it's scummy as fuck now. And there's nothing about the opinion itself that can be criticized: are you gonna yell at her for agreeing with a lynch when there's an entire majority on the wagon otherwise?

I get the argument that it's empty content in that it's just commenting on past events but see, this is the issue: when I first read the post, I basically found myself in the situation where I had to figure out if she was either, (1) scum trying to conform/fit in, or (2) town trying to be as transparent as possible and I still think the latter is more likely. I'll check out the Duck Duck Goose game later today when I have more time but my reaction was, well, why would Sakura!scum want to attach herself to a speed mislynch wagon after the fact? My other head pointed out what I'd expect scum to say when she spoke about Daemon's #500 - the kind of lame posturing trying to distance himself from the lynch. Sakura's reaction just feels different and I don't think she's going for a credibility grab by approving the mislynch after the fact; if anything, I think she realizes that posting something like that as scum has the potential to make her look bad.

Also, reminder to self so I don't forget again: meta Andrius and Saki.

[Jabberwock]

Nacho, I made some time and just went through mbf's ISO in Duck Duck Goose and I think there's a huge difference between what mbf was doing there and what Sakura's doing here. In that game, I see lots of stuff with mbf posturing about both lynch wagons by calling them speed/lurker lynches. That's exactly the kind of reaction I'd expect scum to have towards rushed lynches because it's an easy way to try and grab cred. I don't find anything there that suggests he was agreeing with either of the wagons, which is what Sakura's doing here and it's something I think is more likely to come from town.

I don't think commenting on the lynches after the fact is a scumtell as a general matter - it really depends on what the person in question is actually saying and whether you think they stand to gain something from a scum PoV. I don't see it here with Sakura at all.

[Jabberwock]

Umm new Debanour guy? Seems a bit eeeeh to me I'll get more detail on why in a minute.

When you get a chance, can you do this please?

[Jabberwock]

I feel like, he left his heart out on his sleeve and is putting all his thoughts out as the come to him. The phrasing is kinda awkward I think, and he is majorly fence-sitting, but that heart-on-the-sleeve playstyle is not only hard to do as scum, but it is scary as fuck and, given that he has yet to play scum I don't think he would be able to do that kind of thing yet, least not comfortably.

My thoughts are pretty similar here re: Daemon. I thought #601 read incredibly genuine, particularly the self conscious bits about being paranoid that he's wrong.

I'm taking a look at Andrius' recent games right now and jesus fucking christ this guy posted over 500 times in a game and they're all long stream-of-consciousness walls. I'll have something there in a few hours.

[Jabberwock]

Ugh, it's 3:30 AM here and I'm about to fall asleep. I was only able to get through his two recently completed town games.

I guess this is just for morph the cat since they're the only ones who seem to care about this stuff -- the games I'm looking at are: Xenoblade Mafia, League of Legends Mafia, Strategy Mafia, and Stars Aligned III (note: his two completed scum games are very old so proceed with caution here).

Tomorrow's my mom's birthday so I won't be able to post much if at all. Tierce should be back from having a life today so you'll be hearing more from her, and afterwards, my activity should be back at normal levels until the weekend.

[Jabberwock]

Tierce here. Sorry I've been such a slacker (especially to Empire because etc.). Will have an actual post up within 24 hours.

Andrius why does it feel that even without reading the game I can tell that your behavior is static and there is no evolution or progression in your reads? I will slaughter all your hobbits again if that's what it takes for you to shape up--and if you're scum, I will slaughter them anyway as a matter of principle.

[Jabberwock]

wondercritter, you forgot to meta me

I haven't forgotten, I'm just doing Andrius first.

As far as I can tell Jabberwock's argument is a single post where Saki asks another player if they'd accept a meta-read from a player Saki claimed a scum-read on.

If we were to pretend Saki is a better player I would make the argument that even is Saki thought you were scum that your meta-read would have to be accurate because if you were deceptive that would confirm Saki's read of scum or increase the number of people reading Saki as town. If we assume Saki is as bad as I think Saki is then it's certainly that Saki ignored the fact that scum could or would lie about such a basic thing but Saki-town sees Saki-town and expects everyone else to. Those aren't the only possible options but they're certainly viable town causes of the single post that Jabberwock objected to.

1) There's more to it than just the one post, although I admit that's a pretty significant reason. It's more that I just get the impression that the whole "trolololol I'm being intentionally useless" shtick is just there as a smokescreen so he doesn't have to do much in the way of post fake content as scum.

2) Yeah, those are plausible town causes for the post but that doesn't negate the scum possibility (I still think the latter is more likely) and I don't think Saki's incompetence is really the issue here (and I think we can all agree that Saki is playing "badly"). There's definite scum motivation in intentionally trying to play as poorly as possible, e.g., people writing you off as "too bad to be scum" while relieving some of the burden of producing content. This applies even if we assume that Saki is the most incompetent player on the site (he isn't but that's beside the point). It's a matter of intent and I think it's there in Saki's case though this is really the main reason why I've wanted to look over his meta.

---

Anyway, I'll be typing up the big Andrius meta report right now since I've gone over all the games.

[Jabberwock]

Here's the long awaited Andrius meta post. I tried condensing it this time to make it a bit more readable. Morph, feel free to comment/add on to this. I'm writing/editing this at 4:30 AM so if any of this doesn't make sense, let me know.

Ok so one of the things I wanted to look at is how Andrius interacts with his friends in other games because part of the reason he's pinged my radar here is the feeling that he's buddying his friends to an exaggerated degree -- I could see him buddying as town, but it feels like it comes on a bit too strong and forced for me. In his other games, he did buddy his friends but it felt like he was overall much more serious with them and in one instance he was willing to chide his friends for being lazy/playing poorly (League of Legends Mafia, #779). Interactions with Nacho in Xenoblade were noteworthy in that he's not afraid to speak up when he disagrees with one of his reads even if he does end up putting Nacho's judgment above his own most of the time (see: the way he conducted himself towards the Aj the Epic wagon).

Another thing I wanted to check out is whether he has a habit of maintaining static reads as town and the impression I get from both of his town games is that he doesn't; in fact his reads tend to fluctuate quite a bit. In LoL, he spends a decent portion of the early game suspecting IPie for being useless but ends up reversing his position later on down the road. I remember the Varsoon read in Xenoblade fluctuating a lot, going from suspecting him early on for complaining-without-scumhunting to townreading him to being a main driver of the wagon on the day Varsoon got lynched.

As far as his scum games go, I don't know if this is Large Theme syndrome or what, but he tends to post a lot less and there's a way lower signal:noise ratio. Aside from that, I'm not really seeing any huge differences? I thought him insisting that he not be ignored in his interactions with LLD and Nacho was kinda town but I saw him doing something similar in SAIII after crumbing something that had to do with the mechanics of the game that I frankly don't care enough to go and check out.

I'm gonna go sleep on this and then reread this post and see how he lines up in this game to draw some conclusions from all this.

(Also, minor thing but I wanted to see if he reacts to cases as town by trying to guess at the reasons before the cases are put forth and he does! -- compare #647 (bottom) in this game with Xenoblade Mafia, #2232)

P-edit: Hi Nacho. I'll take a look at the mbf thing again when I wake up since I'm going to bed right now.

[Jabberwock]

Sorry about that. I've apparently spent most of this game napping. I typed this post to a background of several puppy image tabs and that seems to work wonders for motivation~

Sakura is omg-Town. That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town. This game isn't particularly easy and she doesn't have the benefit of having a hydra partner helping her out. I've been there. I know how it is to feel like a game is going WOOOOOSH over your head--and the way she expresses it is crazy Town. Scum wouldn't say that, especially if you consider that Vi games usually have Daytalk--her buddies can guide her on who to wagon. This isn't happening, she's truly alone, she's Town, end of story. Empire wants to give you a hug for Post 726 and I promise that the dragonish coils are gentle.

Saki offering to fullclaim and selfhammer when he's not even the leading wagon--that's playing stupid. Whatever he is, Saki is NOT stupid. He likes to fuck around as Town too, sure, but the interest in scumhunting is there and is much more genuine. In this game? He's just flailing around being 'useless' and getting cozy with Sakura's bland description of his meta, because he thinks he can. Saki is not stupid and can pull his weight as Town, but he's choosing not to do so here and instead play the herp a derp omg to scummy to be scum card. He's scum, don't be fooled by the act.

Andrius--as of now, we have role-related reasons that make us think Andrius is scum and we'd prefer to lynch him Today over anyone else. Him being all over Sakura's lack of scumreads as if it is bad but not bothering to look at the motivations behind it and shifting to her with no regard to the Sakura/Saki interaction is just icing on the cake. He is one of the players here who benefit heavily from NKing Nacho before Nacho even gets to post, and that hammer helps him along very very nicely.

ProHawk--good wagon, would lynch again, but please don't make it Today's wagon when Andrius is RIGHT THERE.

DDD reads Town but that's obvious because Natirasha. Empire thinks him being abrasive is Townish (though I think that's DDD being DDD, which is actually a good sign because he's acting naturally), and he's pushing his preferred wagon with a measure of conviction through trying to persuade other strong players to join him; he could be appealing to weaker ones and being a lt slimier, it's a good sign he's not.

We think Daemon is Town, because of his genuine analysis of his own scumhunting and the paranoia bit. Keeping your options open by selling fence-sitting/waffling as paranoia isn't that easy to do as scum, and he doesn't seem experienced enough to pull that off naturally.

UNVOTE: Saki
VOTE: Andrius

[Jabberwock]

Andy love, unless you want to start referring to you as Andyy or Andriusy, you won't name us by that dreadful poem in which there is this horrid attempt in our life.

As for your post, I'll translate for DDD: It's trash(y). Didn't even bother to read Sakura's post in which she IS ridiculously fatalistic, or the post by morph the cat (your suspect now!) where ffery remarks on that.

[Jabberwock]

everyone unvote please you're voting a solo player and they clearly need help with the game so we have to go easy on them

Wait, now I get what you mean with this. xD You're bad at this being scum thing, aren't you?

Someone being alone and giving every sign that they are alone and lonely and having trouble with the game because they are ALONE is a sign of Town who don't know who the scum are or who the other Town players are or anything. It's something you see far better on a solo player than on a hydra, for obvious reasons, and this is one of the obvious reasons that Sakura is Town here, in a Vi game. And you're trying to spin this as a read-that-makes-no-sense without even trying to figure out the logic behind it. That's kind of cute, but really scummy.


We're not Townreading Daemon for

not voting

. We're Townreading him for sounding genuine. My post was in English, no matter how much I misapply prepositions.

Quote tag fixed. ~Vi

[Jabberwock]

I have doubts as to whether Jabberwocky is town-aligned or not but nachomamma is a reputable member of the town and foremost a 'bro' and as such his read is good

This

. Look at you being scum all over his thread, Andy love~

[Jabberwock]

So since you're not even bothering being subtle about it--

Andrius is apparently a Day-Activated (must choose before lynch) Neighborizer. He was our Neighbor for N1. Now, the question is--

1) If he is Day-activated, he neighborized us before lynch. Why did he pick us

before his very first post in the game

?
2) Why did he pick us when he could pick Nacho, who he is much more used to dealing with?
3) While there are roles I could see as there being duplicates/variations of in this game, Town Neighborizer is not one of them. A scum Neighborizer who gets to interact with someone for one NIGHT, thus being able to scan their reads for good NK choices, though? That's a good counterpoint to a game-length Town Neighborizer that exists in {morph the cat, Purpkin}.
4) For the love of Yune, whichever of {Cabyllt, Purpkin} is the actual Neighborizer,

don't claim it

Today.

[Jabberwock]

*crickets*

Also:

5) If Andrius is not Day-Activated, again,

why the hell did he not pick Nacho

?

[Jabberwock]

Wait what, Andrius can neighborize smeone for 1 night?

Yes.

[Jabberwock]

......

Vi,

what the heck

are you doing?


Okay seriously Sakura is like Townier than Nachyana, that post was ridiculously Town. Never ever

ever

lynch that slot. But--my brain.

Andy lynch still works, but--uuuurgh.

[Jabberwock]

Please stop claiming info. There's no need for all that at this juncture.

[Jabberwock]

Let's get this show on the road.

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: Saki

[Jabberwock]

We'd prefer Saki Today, Purpkin--what are your updated thoughts on that slot?

[Jabberwock]

Empire here, rushed for time.

Tho I dont have many leads I do have to question you Jabberwock, I thought Saki could be scum, but this post:

That's a pretty strong overreaction. Is there a reason you're ignoring me this game, or...?

I yelled at her in another game for it. If that's context enough.

He could've used the overreaction to pin it on me, yet he decided to explain my post instead of letting me defend against it, what's the possible scum motivation behind that?

That'd be fine except he was and is still keeping his vote on you. His actions do not line up with what he is saying.

bork, this game might be helpful. I just started going through Saki's meta and while I don't have time to explain stuff, you need to read this and I think you can immediately see the huge difference between his play there and his play here.

[Jabberwock]

Tho I dont have many leads I do have to question you Jabberwock, I thought Saki could be scum, but this post:

That's a pretty strong overreaction. Is there a reason you're ignoring me this game, or...?

I yelled at her in another game for it. If that's context enough.

He could've used the overreaction to pin it on me, yet he decided to explain my post instead of letting me defend against it, what's the possible scum motivation behind that?

He's still voting you regardless of that post, so there isn't a lot to it that makes it Town at all.

saki is being unhelpful, might well be scum, and i have no clue if they actually are or not.

This is one of those times I feel meta might be my only weapon and I've not bothered to look yet. The aggression is a teeny tiny towntell I guess?

Mara very much thinks this slot is town and she should be back soon.

Well Mara thought Malakittens was Town in Lemon Prime and I etc.

Please

do

go meta him. He;s being deliberately obtrusive because the "meta" presented in this game supports that behavior--but go check his other games and you'll see what we mean when we say it's a façade.

PEdit: Ninja'd by my other half. (ºwº)/)

[Jabberwock]

Sorry about that. I've apparently spent most of this game napping. I typed this post to a background of several puppy image tabs and that seems to work wonders for motivation~

Sakura is omg-Town.

That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town.

This game isn't particularly easy and she doesn't have the benefit of having a hydra partner helping her out. I've been there. I know how it is to feel like a game is going WOOOOOSH over your head--and the way she expresses it is crazy Town. Scum wouldn't say that, especially if you consider that Vi games usually have Daytalk--her buddies can guide her on who to wagon. This isn't happening, she's truly alone, she's Town, end of story. Empire wants to give you a hug for Post 726 and I promise that the dragonish coils are gentle.

Saki offering to fullclaim and selfhammer

when he's not even the leading wagon--that's playing stupid. Whatever he is, Saki is NOT stupid. He likes to fuck around as Town too, sure, but the interest in scumhunting is there and is much more genuine. In this game? He's just flailing around being 'useless' and getting cozy with Sakura's bland description of his meta, because he thinks he can. Saki is not stupid and can pull his weight as Town, but he's choosing not to do so here and instead play the herp a derp omg to scummy to be scum card.

He's scum, don't be fooled by the act.

Andrius--as of now, we have role-related reasons that make us think Andrius is scum and we'd prefer to lynch him Today over anyone else. Him being all over Sakura's lack of scumreads as if it is bad but not bothering to look at the motivations behind it and shifting to her with no regard to the Sakura/Saki interaction is just icing on the cake. He is one of the players here who benefit heavily from NKing Nacho before Nacho even gets to post, and that hammer helps him along very very nicely.

ProHawk--good wagon, would lynch again

, but please don't make it Today's wagon when Andrius is RIGHT THERE.

DDD reads Town but that's obvious because Natirasha. Empire thinks him being abrasive is Townish (though I think that's DDD being DDD, which is actually a good sign because he's acting naturally), and he's pushing his preferred wagon with a measure of conviction through trying to persuade other strong players to join him; he could be appealing to weaker ones and being a lt slimier, it's a good sign he's not.

We think Daemon is Town, because of his genuine analysis of his own scumhunting and the paranoia bit. Keeping your options open by selling fence-sitting/waffling as paranoia isn't that easy to do as scum, and he doesn't seem experienced enough to pull that off naturally.

UNVOTE: Saki
VOTE: Andrius

Most of this post is dumb, mostly the bolded stuff. No offense dude. This "That fatalism/deathwish/frustration at having no scumreads is Town Town Town." does not read town to me at all. She is the lead wagon and its an appeal to emotion, in fact its the

same type of appeal to emotion that Saki used

in different clothes, and you call him scum. You call Saki scum and unvote. Soft-claim investigative. When have you ever lynched me and what makes you think I am a good wagon?

u mad

No, it is not the same type of appeal Saki used, at all. We called him scum and unvoted because we preferred Andy at that juncture; there is nothing wrong with preferring a vote on one scumread over another, especially if we are more certain of it at one point/feel the player is more dangerous to leave alive as scum. As for lynching you again, that was a joke/way of speaking--we support having you lynched, but we have other preferences. How is any of those remarks from you relevant to the game, if you are calling them dumb and not using them to scumhunt?

[Jabberwock]

Hey ProHawk why are you trying to encourage the Sakura Hana counterwagon to Saki without putting your feet on the Sakura wagon yourself? Because if you're not caught up, that is the information you are working with regarding the then-wagons, and it makes no sense for Town-ProHawk to be focusing on this without either a look into our alignment besides "bad logic" or "dumb" or questioning why we aren't bringing the slot you are voting (morph the cat) into THAT post.

Also "snake-head" is a Wondercritter pleasee have some respect for our wonderness and wonderment tyvm.

[Jabberwock]

L-2 is fine, no one else vote before the others have had their chance to chime in.

[Jabberwock]

so that maybe when I am dead

Also I hate this. How about you make things for

now

and push things

now

instead of hoping that someone will carry your banner when you're dead, especially since that banner is limp and useless and we've proven it wrong with a complete disparity in what you're saying we're doing and the actual facts and motivations?

UNVOTE: Saki
We'll be back here, but this head prefers a L-3 right now.

[Jabberwock]

P-EDIT: If I was encouraging a Sakura counter wagon, I would be on it. I am encouraging a second look on your slot who has otherwise appeared town. I also don't care what you hate. So there is that.

That's cute. "This slot looks Town but I am not sure and I really can't be bothered and OH BTW WHEN I'M DEAD some vague person come look at it let's not bother asking other people for now."

[Jabberwock]

We're adorable. (ºwº) But you have no stance on the current wagons and that makes us sad. Do you really think morph the cat are getting lynched Today?

[Jabberwock]

Go read the linked Saki games, LLD. Also, complete Saki meta sources here.

[Jabberwock]

Meta, PoE, and that

his posts are scummy

. (Wild notion, I know~)

[Jabberwock]

Uhm, LLD, just read the game...?

We're down to three potential scumreads. Sakura bleeds Town (1), DDD is Town (2), Nachyana are dead Town (3), you and Daemon are likely Town (5), DTMaster is Town (6), Purpkin and morph the cat are Town (8), we are Town (9). That leaves Andrius, Saki and ProHawk.

And before you complain that we can't PoE a game without a scumflip, we were (succesfully!) looking for the third scum on the very first post we made upon replacing into Mini 1398 on D1.

[Jabberwock]

LLD. I'm dead serious. I know you don't have patience for meta, but go look at Saki's games. He's playing dumb.

[Jabberwock]

I mean, we don't need your help to get him lynched, but go look at them games and then tell me he's not capable of playing the too scummy to be scum role on purpose,

especially

when he is called out explicitly as too scummy to be scum.

[Jabberwock]

LLD. I'm dead serious. I know you don't have patience for meta, but go look at Saki's games. He's playing dumb.

Fine, this is my one favor for you and I'll do it tomorrow.

But heaven help the person who lynches Saki before I get my two cents in.

And I want you to take a step back and consider that last post in isolation to everything else done this game by Saki. You say you play with intent, does a player of Saki's caliber have the sophistication to make that play as scum?

We even left him at L-3 for you and Oil Tycoons and whatnot. The Wondercritter is patience incarnate right now.

He is of a higher caliber than you think, he dumbs it down on purpose to suit his goals. And after Natirasha was seen as Town for claiming an ability that he doesn't know how it works, why

wouldn't

scum do the same? It even suits any future claims he wants to make as to how something turns out. Oh, I was tracked to a NK? I guess that's what my ability does, I thought I was protecting him!

And self-voting and hoping it looks Town? Pffft to that. Oh look at me I am hardly following the game but hey there is some vague Mafia Neighborizer amongst that set let me not even bother with that because why would I need to be useful right now.

[Jabberwock]

*shrug*
In 512, the town game that you linked, I was a town PR.
And still, all that meta-knowledge is based off two games from what I saw.
Big difference from what Andrius gets to what I get, no?

Also, just because I'm playing VI doesn't mean I'm not town.
Like, if you've read my other town games...

Dear Saki,

Being a Town PR isn't a requisite for you to actually participate in the game in a constructive manner.

Love and lynchings,
Jabberwock


LLD--I have no doubt that role evolution exists in the game given Maf.Maiden, but I have strong doubts this is an ability restricted to Town.

[Jabberwock]

Empire's off to dreamland and I have a budding migraine. LLD--please check Saki's games. We'll get back to this tomorrow.

[Jabberwock]

LLD--you're wrong on Sakura. Really really really wrong. When morph the cat and Andrius's Neighborizer abilities were revealed, she claimed Neighborizer as well without prompting and with specific details. Scum don't do this kind of thing. Check the sequence of events starting here.

Now be proud of me for posting a link through a phone. I'm going to go pass out. Please don't spam the thread with NO U posts.

VOTE: Saki

[Jabberwock]

God you're so bad

bad =/= scum tho :3

And you just attacked me too, when i said i was starting to smell a chainsaw.

P-Edit: From my PoV, yes.

I am calling in all favors. Anyone who refuses to lynch this cheeky scum fuck with me is dead to me.

Nacho, Andrius I'm looking at you. I am invoking the blood pact, mother fuckers.

You let Saki get away with saying VI != scum and go after Sakura instead? Come now.

Aaaand out.

[Jabberwock]

Aaaand I am not playing with her again. Though we're considerably madder at all of you idiots who think it's reasonable to draw someone up the flagpole when Nacho and Syryana are due to die and the slot who was Townreading her is, you know, ASLEEP. So screw all of you. Nacho and Syryana included.

Saki, ProHawk and probAndrius still scum.

[Jabberwock]

Yeah, you can go with that.

So. Your fabled scumread flipped (gasp!) Town. What are you doing?

[Jabberwock]

Yes, yes we are. Though the first line was directed at Sakura and her self-hammer that killed Oil Tycoons and shut off discussion, though YOU encouraged it, so yes, it's also your fault and we are mad about it.

Why no reaction to Oil Tycoons' assessment of ProHawk? That kind of anger is null at best.

[Jabberwock]

Hello Mr. Everywhere But Here.

VOTE: Saki

How you doin'?

[Jabberwock]

though, Did Tiempire get a chance to talk to DDD before he died?

that is something I need to know

Begging your pardon?

UNVOTE: Saki (He's still scum, no one "forgets" a uPick exists.)

Need to talk with Empire and need to see if morph the cat actually control two votes. ProHawk lynch is beautiful and glorious but can wait for a little bit.

[Jabberwock]

^ Can't even be bothered to check why scum morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info. Keep going~

As for Saki--Nacho, Syr, seriously?

Over two pages of activity elsewhere

after "oh I forgot this game existed"

on a uPick

? I am not buying it, this game works beautifully with Saki scum, and he dies after ProHawk.

And that DDD kill? That's more likely to be Andrius's touch than the alternative, which is one of Purpkin/morph the cat being scum. Purpkin wouldn't post 922 if they had killed Triple D, and morph the cat wouldn't post for you if they were scum. (And I was significantly relieved to see that the image comes from Syr's photobucket and you can't fake that.) So there you have it.

[Jabberwock]

No, but comparing the two situations as if they are similar is. You are coming to the thread when summoned, magically remembering the game exists, but neglecting to post when you're not being talked about. Funny, that.

[Jabberwock]

Huh-uh.

[Jabberwock]

Other head reporting in.

Haven't had the chance to talk to Tierce yet but uh...Dead Tycoons, why in the fuck are you reading Saki as town? The dude claimed to have been playing intentionally uselessly to mask his PR. Now that he's claimed, he's done exactly 0 scumhunting in this game still despite the fact that he has nothing to hide at this point.

So why?

[Jabberwock]

I'm afraid to say anything right now because Tierce

Are you being serious right now? We've been very open about the fact that we just want to see you do SOMETHING. Just fucking anything at this point will suffice.

God I hate this game so fucking much, I regret ever joining.

[Jabberwock]

*headdesk*

Unfuckingbelievable. I'll just let Tierce deal with this guy, I'm done for now.

[Jabberwock]

Morph, I'll do that once I've calmed down and have some sense of objectivity (e.g., not going to respond to Saki for the rest of the Day phase). Last I talked to Tierce she told me she thinks LLD is town but isn't confident in her ability to read her at all.

[Jabberwock]

Looked at thread, looked at Saki's whiny attitude, looked at lazy scum putting a burden on us that we have already explained thoroughly, not going to bother further.

Purpkin: I see no reason to clarify your initial question Today.

Also

damn

Naesala looks awesome for a sub--er, laguz.

[Jabberwock]

morph the cat, question for you. Who wrote Post 972?

[Jabberwock]

fferyllt.

Cabd posted it though. After I wrote it I wasn't sure it made sense, so I stuck it in drafts. He loaded it back into the thread and posted it for me.

Why did you feel the need to clarify this?

There is something we have a problem with. fferyllt has been a non-entity in this game. Tierce told Empire that fferyllt takes a while to get going, but at this point, there is really no excuse for us to be seeing so little input coming from her. There is so much more content in Mini 1469

as a Serial Killer

who needs to look for Mafia and plays like Town to a degree. Here, it feels like you're hiding behind Cabd. Come out, kitty cat. Come play with the Town players and stop looking like scum before I have a heart attack.

Then I had some paranoia that you had been in contact with Nacho and Syr Yesterday and hadn't told us, but that didn't make sense given that they were still posting and didn't bring that up. So that bit's settled. But the above? Very much bothersome.


As for Saki, anyone Townreading him after Mini 1469 can take a short walk off a long pier.


ProHawk: Lazy scum = Saki.

[Jabberwock]

There is something we have a problem with. fferyllt has been a non-entity in this game. Tierce told Empire that fferyllt takes a while to get going, but at this point, there is really no excuse for us to be seeing so little input coming from her. There is so much more content in Mini 1469

as a Serial Killer

who needs to look for Mafia and plays like Town to a degree. Here, it feels like you're hiding behind Cabd. Come out, kitty cat. Come play with the Town players and stop looking like scum before I have a heart attack.

I think I've made a significant proportion of our posts so far in this game. Today has been inactive overall, though. Syr's right. Our QT has been at least as active as the thread itself.

It's not just Today, it just feels that you're not kicking in yet. With Townreads on us and on Purpkin, with Nacho and Syryana talking with you and Cabd at your back, that seems off. What's holding you back from providing more game analysis?

One thing I've asked about on the QT that I'll ask here too: Syr thinks that one of DTM and Saki are scum but that they aren't likely to be scum together. There's a level of abstraction to DTM's play that makes him a little difficult for me to read. If you or Tierce have game experience with him, I'd like to know what you think about his day 1 and day 2 play.

They aren't scum together, we're agreed on that. Tierce thinks DTMaster's D2 play is very Town; coming in with a guilty on someone is something that locks you into a claim early (and roleblocker is a hell of a claim to be bound to if you're a scum roleblocker) and is a very, very Town move, because it's that Town attitude of

I got you, bastard scum

. Tierce has been there. It's an all guns blazing Town jump into the fray. And scum who knew that their Oil Tycoons kill had failed would not use

Saki

as a scapegoat, it would be ridiculous.

And Tierce will stop talking in third person for a while.

Oh, for more Saki-scum. Remember Saki's edging reaction to DTMaster's claim that he had a guilty on him?

Vote Saki

. Because I have reasons and they support Saki-scum. I.e. I did shenanigans last night and Saki is top suspect unless otherwise stated.

Nat also needs to die: 177 is a clear distance from the TIP lynch. With a town flip - he is distance man and supportive on the lynch. Scum trait. Qualifies for scum dat is off said wagon. Will read for scum on said wagon after I (sober) get some rest.

Saki's death must quench me. Pretend I'm Edgeworth and I used LOGIC AND REASONS (or Chess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-a60ITJ2Ko)

I.e. I did shenanigans last night and Saki is top suspect unless otherwise stated.

Huh?
Why feel the need to keep it secret?

@Saki
No hidden agendas. Thought I was clear. I have a role interaction that implicates you because there was no NK. That should be easy. There are other explanations that can explain these conditions which would suggest other things - but I doubt they would claim.

Thought this was elementary school bus level logic. My disapproved Edgeworth face should be here.

@Saki
No hidden agendas. Thought I was clear. I have a role interaction that implicates you because there was no NK. That should be easy. There are other explanations that can explain these conditions which would suggest other things - but I doubt they would claim.

Thought this was elementary school bus level logic. My disapproved Edgeworth face should be here.

No roleclaim. Faking a guilty. Why?
Because scum that's why.

And also there

was

a nightkill, just delayed. What impact does that have on your investigation? Is it still pointing guilty at me?

No hidden agendas.

You hid your entire damn role from me and fake a guilty and you say there's no hidden agenda?

And also there was a nightkill, just delayed. What impact does that have on your investigation? Is it still pointing guilty at me?

he didn't know that, he probably roleblocked you, he's holy shit town as fuck.

I don't see town motivation behind a partial claim.
Even if he is wrong about the guilty I still think he's scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saki

I'm Anna. Both my abilities say something along the lines of "this might do something or it might not."

Let's end the day.


I'm not following too closely but whoever is rolefishing is doing it well.
And Mafia Neighborizer seems highly likely.

So Saki has an ability that he doesn't know the details of, but when someone accuses him of anything his reaction is "you're lying I didn't do anything of the sort you are scum you have nothing on me and whyyyy aren't you fullclaiming shit shit shit are you a cop with a guilty on me what can I claim in this situation ah fuuuuuck". Even when, logically, DTMaster had no way of knowing that he had

not

blocked the Night kill.

This is grade A bullshit and I'm preaching to the choir because at this point I don't think there's anyone worth acknowledging that wouldn't see Saki lynched with gusto and Town fire, so etc.


ProHawk: because your question is boring and we've already explained why it doesn't make sense that morph the cat would hide behind Nachoyana for a mislynch, Cabd's perfectly capable of doing it on his own without needing someone's confTown banner. Furthermore, the "oh look they only used "their" vote after Nacho and Syr" bit is bullshit. It's bad and you should feel bad. If you're not getting lynched Today, Saki is, so what's your read on him?

[Jabberwock]

So at best the lack of ability of reading each other worth a damn is mutual, at worst you're scum. Wheeee.

Nah, it's still probably ProHawk Today, though my heart yearns for that Saki lynch in all its scaly delight.

[Jabberwock]

I'm far cuter than my other head^* and we're frigging prima donnas. There is no discussion to be had that doesn't involve us and our wondrous nature.

^*

Shush, you get to be the pretty one, stop being greedy.

Where are your reads?

[Jabberwock]

I'm about to go out for AMURIKA WOOOO celebratory dinner, but this:

You've already explained why?

Lie.

In fact, you said

you couldn't even be bothered to check why

.

^ Can't even be bothered to check why scum morph the cat would out the Oil Tycoons info.

This is crap and you know it. The "^" was referring to the post above 929, which was (

gasp!

) Post 928, written by (surprise!) you, ProHawk.

[Jabberwock]

Empire's sick and I am packing. Will get to things when possible/when I can be bothered.

I am too tired to drudge up Jabberwocks posts on me, and he isn't voting me yet anyhow which I do find to be strange given the heated words he sends my way Re: Today's lynch. Perhaps he could do me the favor of organizing it for me.

It's pretty obvious that we aren't voting you because you are at L-2

and Andrius isn't voting

and we're not yet ready to end the Day. Both here and on the "omg they didn't use a pronoun" you're putting an onus on us that is absolutely unnecessary when there are obvious Town reasons for us not to vote you right now and you're showing selective pickiness about

who

says what and how. Did our phrasing confuse you? If you're Town, clarify it and move on instead of using it to mudsling.


Oil Tycoons &co.: My other head is apparently in a (snot) coma and oh god is that a disturbing mental image in a Wondercritter. Would like your updated views on ProHawk.

[Jabberwock]

I have serious, serious doubt that Daemon and Saki are on a team together because of their play D2

?

[Jabberwock]

LLD, you're wasting everyone's time. Scum won't bite at this point (I mean, ProHawk did, but we already knew ProHawk was scum). ffery is already a messy pile of mess as it is and she seems to been having some issues focusing. Empire looks at this thread and walks out in a fit of rage over idiotic scum and Town play. We really don't have the luxury of having people ponder on our obvious Town slot, not with the counter nearly at 50.

So--I want final thoughts from Oil Tycoons, because unless Empire says otherwise I'm ready to get this Day on the road.

[Jabberwock]

Jabberwock is clearly, clearly town. all their posts today, and yesterday, and even D1 have alot of pro-town attitude in them. I was unsure earlier, but today has been their best day I think and the fact that they are keeping the day open as long as possible so that we can speak to OT as much as possible reminds me of Tierce's and Vi's attitude in Paradox, specifically the part where we all got thrown back to D1.

to elaborate on the "unsure" side of what mara just posted since I think it mostly comes from me, I was pretty wary of the fact that Jabberwock was continuously all "yeah prohawk makes great scum sure A++ vote would backseat drive again" but clearly has no intention of hopping on that wagon like ever.

I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of any intention of compromise especially as the day goes on and 3 slots have been pretty locked into that vote. I don't have the Tierce meta that mara does, however, so I am willing to defer on that front especially since I can't point to any one slot and be like "yep that's 90% town right there" which I usually have at least 1 or 2 of.

Still, I have no idea what LLD is doing with the "hey maybe jabberwock guys ?" nudge and I see no real viable trajectory with it - you're not gonna get sheep on it today and I think you're gonna get either "nope town" or "maybe but tomorrow" from both alignments which just makes me wonder why you didn't just ask for reads on jabberwock instead of suggesting maybe they ought to be the lynch right now when it clearly lacks momentum and you don't seem to want to create any. It's confusing more than anything.

p-edit: jabberwock pretty much exactly made this exact last point i see

Uhm, I thought it was pretty obvious that we will vote ProHawk. We're just waiting to see if People Who Are Actually Playing This Game Are Done With This Day, because it's five to lynch and he's at L-2. Need I remind you of what happened D1 and what happened D2 while we weren't online? Yeah,

that

.

[Jabberwock]

Other head just told me he wants content from Andrius and DTMaster and I agree. I don't care if you're at Edmeeton, make some time or replace out. Vi doesn't make adjustments or allowances for V/LA, so either shape up or make space for People Who Actually Want To Play The Game.


...We wanted Saki lynched D2. Then you went and quicklynched our strongest Townread. When did we have an opportunity to compromise? Oh right, when we weren't even online and you were going after Sakura and she caved under pressure.

Yes, still bitter.

[Jabberwock]

Other head just told me he wants content from Andrius and DTMaster and I agree.

That is, before the end of this Day.

*twiddles claws*

[Jabberwock]

I kept checking the thread throughout today to see how many people I needed to shout at.

LLD--we're not scum. Lay off. I'm out of patience to deal with that crap.

Purpkin--two roleblockers in a Vi game are quite likely, even with a 13p, and may share alignments (see Mafia Jailbreak and etc.).

I am exhausted. Blame Vi. Andrius and DTM are still being completely useless--Empire, you have the reins, feel free to vote whenever.

[Jabberwock]

Nah, ProHawky. Then people would realize we are scum going for the easy mislynch!

We're not putting you on L-1 until this Day is done, and it's clearly not done yet, so sit still and shut up.

[Jabberwock]

Jesus fucking Christ, LLD. Nacho is posting and I gave the reins of our vote to Empire because I'm about ready to pass out. What is your problem?

[Jabberwock]

LLD, please.

Look. I know we're probably on a timer. I probably know better than most what are the likely influences on said timer (because it's not like anyone bothers to check Maf.Maiden). I also know that Oil Tycoons will be silenced after Today, and that FOR TWO DAYS NOW people were quickhammered early in the Day. Nacho is thought-dumping and I'm okay with this. I'm not commenting much, no, but I walked something like 5 miles today and have the other head to refer to when he's not feeling like shit. This makes PERFECT SENSE from the PoV of someone who wants input from confTown and input from two of the biggest unknown variables in this game (Andrius and DTMaster), and doesn't want someone like Saki to hammer or ProHawk to self-hammer. So you can take your "your play doesn't make sense!" complaints and toss them at Saki instead, because

waiting for things to play out and asking for content from missing people

is a perfectly understandable Town attitude. Could I have put ProHawk at L-1 at this point if I was third party? Sure I could, and would have much less scrutiny from you &co. Bugger off before I take my ailing legs and beat you with them.

Now excuse me. G'night.

[Jabberwock]

Empire is nowhere to be found and I am tired of waiting for Messieurs I Am In This Game But I Can't Be Bothered With Regular Content. Let's lynch scum.

VOTE: ProHawk

[Jabberwock]

LLD, instead of going all rage over Daemon, here's a question for you: is (apparently) not knowing that DDD is dead (and the connection between morph the cat and Oil Tycoons) more likely to come from Town or from scum, given that scum killed DDD?

[Jabberwock]

LLD, instead of going all rage over Daemon, here's a question for you: is (apparently) not knowing that DDD is dead (and the connection between morph the cat and Oil Tycoons) more likely to come from Town or from scum, given that scum killed DDD?

You don't think I fucking know that? Really? You think I'm not looking at this?

But guess what Wondercritter, if he's town, what are the odds that you/purpkin are both town?

ABSOLUTELY NIL.

Considering that I'm currently looking at the game as possibly/probably 10:2:1, and that fuck me I have no idea who is the 1 (2 being Saki+ProHawk), I'll gladly discuss Purpkin et al after we deal with faction scum.

[Jabberwock]

HEY LLD

GUESS WHAT

IF THE TIMER WORKS THE SAME WAY

THERE IS A THIRD PARTY

YOU STARTED SPECULATING ON IT

AND NOW IT'S ON ME FOR DOING IT

BUGGER OFF

No, posting like this is not therapeutic. But any time you start pushing at me for working out setup speculation when that is what I DO and I would have no reason to speculate about a third party in thread if I were scum (helllooooooo scum QT to make all the schemy conniving business and HUNTING THAT FEATHERED BASTARD DOWN (or whatever that role is since it's a uPick and I assume roles are not related to alignment because ahahaha Gangrel as Town)), you can take your toys and go home. Setup speculation is not scummy. Doing crap like "oh the obvious vig kill was done by a MYSTERIOUS SECOND SCUMTEAM", courtesy of Amrun, THAT is scummy. Trying to puzzle out what would make sense in a 13p game with a timer we're familiar with--how on earth is that scummy?


And yes, Daemon's fence is bothering me as well because he's aware we called it Townish earlier. But I don't see how he would need to sit on it right now as scum when he could just have hammered ProHawk if ProHawk is Town. It will bother me more if ProHawk flips scum because it's a refusal to bus.

[Jabberwock]

You didn't use the words "third party", but you called us "scum of some flavor" for slowing the Day down. You're accusing our slot of being tied to the timer. It's not a crime to consider the possibility of 10:2:1 when we've seen such a third party situation in the previous game and the timer is increasing in a similar manner afaict (haven't checked in a while). It might just be a scum mechanic, sure--but speculating on this is NOT scummy.

[Jabberwock]

Empire here, I finally got current on the game. Nacho/Syryana, a couple of questions for you guys:

1) How confident are you in Andrius-town? Has there ever been a game in at least somewhat recent memory where you misread him when he was scum?
2) How likely do you think a Saki-DTMaster scum pair is? I keep thinking back to their interaction early Day 2 when DTM claimed to have roleblocked Saki and that makes me think they aren't scum together.

[Jabberwock]

Sure, barring something weird, I should actually be around all of today.

[Jabberwock]

I just had the most awesome Italian food ever. Again, blame Vi if I pass out before I say anything coherent.

Empire and I are in agreement that Daemon Townslipped. I'm fine with getting Hawkaiah lynched, those Night actions make no sense. Protecting DTM on N1 when there were people like Oil Tycoons and Purpkin around, and then protecting us N2 when Oil Tycoons had made explicit they were likely to protect us--not buying it. Also not buying a bodyguard in a game with Oil Tycoons's role, and not buying multiple targets.

FWIW, LLD complaining that someone claimed Micaiah is kind of silly, as there is no reason he wouldn't pick her (she's pretty (her bird is prettier) and she kicks ass (her bird kicks more ass)); it's not a Choose Your Side game.


Aaand I think I am about to pass out from sheer food bliss. Please send help.

[Jabberwock]

Hey ProHawk. What made you think we were Town on N2?

[Jabberwock]

Checking in, I'm about to go spend the day with the girlfriend. Tierce is just recently getting back from a meet so you should hear more from us later tonight/tomorrow. We're pretty much trying to go over a reads overhaul here because something is seriously, seriously, seriously off.

Agree with the CES-kill being super weird and I'm trying to figure out what caused it. Any ideas?

[Jabberwock]

There's no way in hell we're claiming before Saki. We're fine going after him, but not before.

[Jabberwock]

Also LLD if you think we'd leave you alive last Night if we were scum you are delusional~

(Purpkin--we saw no need to claim the Neighborhood at the time, but it was successful and I thought my reply was obvious enough for you two to notice.)

[Jabberwock]

Nope. Saki now, then we claim.

[Jabberwock]

Nope. Saki now, then we claim.

Saki, don't.

We'll just lynch them if they don't wanna claim.

Doesn't work like that and you know it. Role interactions, dahling. Saki goes first and we'll follow.

[Jabberwock]

So I would wait on Saki for that when I have perfectly formed claims that I could dance around to fabricate a fakeclaim?

Right, because things usually go like that, I make it really obvious in-thread which person I want to claim before I fabricate that super speshul fakeclaim. That sure makes sense!

LLD, if you're Town, the game is probably already lost due to you being ridiculously obstinate. We're not claiming before Saki and that's final, so do whatever you want, I'm done with the "no you" posts.

[Jabberwock]

I already fullclaimed
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jabberwock

Sorry LLD but this needs rope NOW

That's cute, but no you didn't.

[Jabberwock]

That does not go about what you

did

with your abilities, and voting us as you did is pure scum bullshit.

[Jabberwock]

That does not go about what you

did

with your abilities, and voting us as you did is pure scum bullshit.

"I don't know what either of my abilities do"
The fuck do you don't get about that?

My claim was essentially a VT claim

What are you looking for, a fakeclaim that involves a guilty on me?

I'm Anna. Both my abilities say something along the lines of "this might do something or it might not."

This is not the same thing as "I don't know what either of my abilities do." It is actually VERY different, as it implies two very different results and Vi takes extreme care on how to word these things so there is no such ambiguity.

Did you attempt to target anyone? Did you do anything on, oh, I don't know, any of the three Nights in the game? What?

And yes, votes on us as a reaction to "omg I already fullclaimed" is bullshit, and we are not going to be lynched for it because we are Town. If you are Town (you're not, hi!), you're throwing the game.

So, before we claim, we need confirmation on what you did/didn't do, Mr. Vanilla Townie in a Vi game.

[Jabberwock]

Oh, I know what will answer our curiosity--lynching and investigating you. (ºwº)


We're Soren. That was so obvious, even you must have anticipated it.

(Flawed) Roleblocker, cannot block Night kills (I like to call this our "lol 0 Strength" ability). That was actually what this head thought Purpkin was on about when they mentioned the two roleblockers back in the day, because I reckoned that our Neighborhood-related response was obvious enough (i.e. that they had not been blocked); I thought they were a rolecop and were asking us about our read on DTMaster. Blocked Saki N1 and N3, ProHawk N2.

Also a Coroner--see pleas for TIP to claim, because the Wondercritter be smart about these things and we knew there was either a Janitor (ahahaha no) or that this game followed the previous game's trend of being partial reveal.

You already know about the N1 and N2 Neighborhoods.


Andrius next, because Daemon is never going to post and was probably not coached into "Townslipping" anyway.
No, LLD, you don't get to pick the order because if you're Town you're ruining all the potential of popcorn-style by doing it and if you're scum it's no good anyway.

[Jabberwock]

morph the cat is very Town--would probably have shot Purpkin and Their Extra Roleblocking Shots if they were scum, when CES was probably going to be more lynchable Today than Purpkin.

As for Purpkin--while I believe the claimed abilities, I'm having serious trouble with the reversed read on us, which reads incredibly opportunistic. What's the reasoning behind that?

[Jabberwock]

DDD scumread me in a newbie game a long time ago and couldn't get me lynched; he was pretty subdued in this game and I believe my words to Empire were that he posted in MD (I think?) that he tends to fill behavioral slots in a game, which means that he would never get out of the subdued state. That kill points to Andrius, probably. Empire's puzzled by the CES kill, because he doesn't think CES is that well known by this playerlist; I'm willing to say that CES was killed by people afraid of him voicing thoughts and/or PR hunting, because I have been and seen that happen--replacements killed before they can post.

CES can read me, I'll grant you that, and I can't read him for shit, but if you're going that angle, Andrius knows him well, so does LLD, and I'm fairly certain Cabd knows of him to a point. Of these, I'd say Andrius is the one who is scum and is calling the shots on the kills. Nacho+Syryana, DDD, CES--the first and last make sense as kills I would perform because they are power players, but you're thinking I'd kill Nachoyana and the next Night jump to DDDP, who is no threat to me, hadn't voiced a single thought on us and wasn't a danger in the QT, when there is a claimed Roleblocker and everything hinted at Oil Tycoons's protection being on us, which meant that morph the cat were fair game to

get Cabd the hell out of this game

? Makes no sense, because I've seen enough of Cabd to make him a priority kill if I'm willing to make Nacho+Syryana a priority as well.


Why us and DDDP?

[Jabberwock]

There actually is, but that's WIFOM and it's pointless to go down that road. I'm sad to say there wasn't much produced in that Neighborhood because we were all paranoid as hell and none of us is a particularly nice person. (Also lol, Gangrel and Soren. Match made in heaven~)

My point with the DDDP kill is that, if you are going down that road with NK analysis, you have to realize that we would be leaving people alive who have played with me a lot more recently. Cabd has seen me as Town and as scum very very recently, as has Ms Marangal (who, admittedly, doesn't worry me overmuch), and I'm sure ffery could metadive me into a lynch if I were scum. Instead you're presuming I chose to leave them alive and hope the Townread would stick and went for Triple D, who last played with me in Maf.Maiden (both Town), saw me as Town as he modded Sherlock Mafia, and didn't manage to get me lynched in a Newbie game that was over a year ago. It doesn't

fit

. If you think I'm taking out threats, your perception of who I see as threats is wrong, because you are missing the people who

are still alive

. That list, though? It fits as Andrius-threats.

[Jabberwock]

@bork:

Cabd saw me in Red Wedding Mafia (I was scum), Paradox Prime (I was Town, under Sixty), and he reads far too many games. I would say he knows me less than Syryana does, but that's because Syr is a stalker. >.> He probably has a decent grasp on me as scum, because I

am

obvious as scum no matter how my scum game improves. Go read some stuff. And if Mara is paying attention, she can tell this is nothing like Open 501.

Andrius bothers me a lot. We really want to sheep Nacho's Townread on him, but we are running out of possible scum. Empire thinks you are scum, but I disagree--and that forces me to say that both Andrius and Daemon

have

to be scum for the game to have three scum (and... Daemon? Really? With that post Yesterday? What kind of scum is that distracted about the game that they miss who they killed, even checking it in the QT/thread?). You don't make sense as group scum, either way, and if you are not group scum then you are not who we want to lynch Today. morph and LLD are still Town. That leaves Saki, Andrius, Daemon. I want to start with Saki

to save face

because he's the most obvious of them all, get killed Tonight before we investigate his actual role, and leave you lot to deal with hard decisions.

That seems a lot to ask.

By the way, someone with actual in-depth flavor knowledge (i.e. has played the games i.e. HI CABD WHERE ARE YOU) will want to do something about that number, because we're probably running low on time. The reference, from the previous game:

The number wasn't really that ambiguous with a bit of flavor knowledge (which a bunch of people had). This scenario is taken right out of the game almost wholesale and without modification, and this particular Chapter ends when the counter reaches 80.

That game ended at 85 with Lehran's victory, etc.

[Jabberwock]

What's the point of using a coroner ability on a TOWN player when we can hope to block a scum PR? We want Town people to claim, but we don't really need to investigate them--the claims we are missing are Triple D's and TIP's, and frankly I don't think the knowledge would make much of a difference. Coroner is to find out what the hell is with the scum players who we DO manage to lynch (see: Saki) and hopefully to figure out the timer mechanic from whomever is involved with it.

[Jabberwock]

Mostly because I was waiting on Empire and/or in the water park and/or waiting for Saki to claim SK. That'd be fun!

There was no point in rushing it, as we have no specific guarantee that Saki is scum (quickhammer might be pending, scum might not be 3 players, scum might not want to quickhammer because shenanigans), so we're fine sitting on this and pointing and laughing. Unlike 3p LyLo, there's nothing that says that non-voters are Town.


What's the scum benefit in not crossing right now? At worst it's null, and at best it's us not jumping on confirmation bias because guess what this is probably LyLo.

[Jabberwock]

Third party; scum not group scum who has a wincon exclusive from the Town's. Same difference, as Vi likes to get creative with wincons--the Maf.Maiden Third Party role killed everyone as the counter hit 85, for all effects and purposes. I've been using SK for ease of typing/thought process, but you're right, and I don't think anyone in this playerlist but me (and not with this playerlist because omfg threats if I were scum) would play a non-killing SK in hopes of passing under the radar. Maybe you, but again, pointless speculation.

I need to take a shower; if there's stuff you want to discuss, lay it on me and I'll get back to it asap.

[Jabberwock]

Vi is very much against SKs being Compulsive by default. See Louvre Mafia, with Mumm-Vi, the Ever Living and Never Tasting Wild Duck Cooked with Honey and Garlic, and Vi's discontent when s.lullaby wanted to make the role Compulsive by default. There was an SK in MoCO, Nachomamma8 aka

Bullsh*t!

in the Details. Maf.Maiden had modified wincons and you'll want to look at it, particularly Sephiran.

We're probably the counter to numberscum, regardless of how many they are--Coroner, We Are Really Fucking Awesome, etc. No, I think Saki is probably groupscum, which means he gets to die Today when we're done with massclaim.

[Jabberwock]

Coroner, We Are Really Fucking Awesome, etc.

Is this a oneshot or X-shot ability?


And can you provide links to those games/rolecards?

There's really no Town reason for us to answer that first question, massclaim or not.

As for the second one, have fun.

[Jabberwock]

See Louvre Mafia, with Mumm-Vi, the Ever Living and Never Tasting Wild Duck Cooked with Honey and Garlic, and Vi's discontent when s.lullaby wanted to make the role Compulsive by default.

Not in vi's modded games list, I can hunt it down or you can gimmie a link, either-or.

Oh, sorry. It's not a Vi game, it's a game that Vi played in and shows Vi's reactions to SKs and Compulsiveness. Here.


Saki, sweetheart, claiming Coroner shots is much different from I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY ABILITIES DO BUT BTW THEY MIGHT DO SOMETHING OR NOT AND THEY ARE PASSIVE AND ETC. So sit down and keep trying to lynch us. It gives a nice ticklish feeling on our scales.