Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[Huntress]

Hi!

I was hoping I could do a quick catch-up by reading recent posts and a few ISOs but that's not working for me so I'm going to have to revert to my usual method of reading absolutely everything, despite the length. Meanwhile, would those voting for Penguin, or intending to do so, give me a run-down of the case against her please? Or linking to a post where you've already done so would be fine too. Because reading her ISO out of context doesn't give me a scum vibe there.

[Huntress]

Vote: Wisdom

My top scum read so far. I know people seem to have moved on from him but I think that there's some unfinished business there. I'm not yet fully caught up but when I am I'll go into more detail on that (unless I come across something that changes things).


Still waiting for replies to my post 1662.

[Huntress]

I don't like cases. She can read penguin's posts on her own.

Sure I can; in fact I already said I've read her ISO when asking the question in the first place. However that doesn't tell me why

you

think she's scum. It's

your

thoughts about it I'm interested in, and those of the others voting her, as looking at the overall voting picture it seems as if Mantis started the push on Penguin as a pre-emptive counterwagon to her own which you later joined her in pushing after the Mantis wagon from day one re-emerged.

[Huntress]

I'm still catching up but so far I've got scum reads of varying strengths on Bert, Sweet Pertayter, Wisdom and possibly also Mantis. I had a null to town read on TNE but that is being shaken, but not quite stirred, by Fakegod.

I'm not in favour of a Desp lynch.

[Huntress]

I believe Nat's claim, because that's the way I've been reading him. (Null to town from the start, PR since he first claimed it in 366). My only concern there is why he didn't get nk'd but I guess they thought he would be protected. My suspicion of Sweet Pertayter was due to 55, 106 and 105. I thought they suspected Lynx of being a PR and were warning their partners (55), casting suspicion (106) and buddying to Lynx (155). But if Nat is telling the truth then I can forget that for the time being unless scum have some role that can affect his results.

I am pretty stupid, I didn't even recognize any crumbs

Why don't I believe this? From what I've seen of your play this doesn't ring true.

[Huntress]

It's his claim of being stupid that I don't believe. So I don't see how he or anyone else could have missed those crumbs unless they hadn't been reading, and Bert has clearly been keeping up.

[Huntress]

Bert does not look for details like crumbs.

But they weren't the sort of crumbs that need to be looked for.

I'll explain the reads when I've finished catching up as they are still in flux.

[Huntress]

well it looks like penny and desp "missed" them I mean penny voted nats and desp has been tossing suspicion nats way all day.

what do you think of that

I also don't like how you are going after bert who is probably telling the truth.

I'm not sure what I think about penguin yet, I'm still mulling that over. I don't like some of her posts but the fact that Wisdom is pushing her lynch is making me hesitate. At the moment I wouldn't be averse to her lynch. As for Desp, he hasn't commented on Nat since all this came out into the open so I'll wait to see what he has to say about it to see if that changes my view of him.

As for Bert, I was following Serra's game (Mini 1462) in which Bert (as Nachopappa) was scum. It was that that prompted my comment in 2006. Why don't you like me giving my thoughts on his post?

I didn't think they were bread crumbs I thought they were more like bread factories:

This.

[Huntress]

Finished looking at Penguin now and I'm willing to vote there if no one else wants to vote Wisdom. Next choice would be Mantis then possibly Serra or Bert but I'm still undecided on those two.

My main problem with Wisdom as scum is that although he's still my top scumread I can't see who his partners might be. Possibly Macmollie or Fg? But I don't think either are scum. And some of Penguin's posts look like she's pushing suspicion on Wisdom without actually voting him; it doesn't really look like bussing to me. She's also defending Mantis a bit while doing so.

@ Wisdom: Before you ask again, no I can't give you my reasons yet because I just don't have time to both get them together and to keep up with the thread at the moment. I'll try to do that over the next day or two.

[Huntress]

I don't get the reason for that either. I think Desp is town but you could still be either, regardless of that.

I have no objection to a character massclaim but I suspect it won't tell us anything.

[Huntress]

You implied it in post 2201.

[Huntress]

I don't get the reason for that either. I think Desp is town but you could still be either, regardless of that.

I have no objection to a character massclaim but I suspect it won't tell us anything

.

what makes you say this?

Judging by havingfitz's flip he almost certainly had a fakenameclaim so it's likely the scum have too if their characters are as obvious as his. Actually, thinking about it a bit more it's probably better not to reveal them. When we've seen a few more flips we'll have a better idea of how much we can expect a name to match with a role and therefore whether it's possible to spot a fake one.

[Huntress]

Are you thinking she may have refused to claim to avoid name-claiming? It's possible I suppose, but there's nothing to prove it.

[Huntress]

I don't think so. I don't see what you're getting at? I haven't got an "angle". I was just saying I don't think it's wise to have a mass nameclaim just yet. Do you disagree with that?

[Huntress]

I've already said what I think about it.

By the way, there's also Fg's claim.

[Huntress]

Wisdom probably isn't happening today.

And you can't see who Wisdom's partners are on purpose.

I'm Kevin Ryan.

I had a town read on you because your posts seemed genuine and I couldn't see any scum motivation in them but this attempt to discredit me is straining that read. Tell me what you see in my posts that led you to that conclusion?

But my main problem with this post is the name claim. Serra asked how people would feel about a mass name claim. I was the only one to respond. When Macmollie queried me on it I thought about it a bit more and revised my opinion saying it was probably better not to reveal them. Macmollie asked another question about it but never gave her own opinion. Then without waiting for a consensus you go ahead and claim. Why?

Not liking Penguin's immediate acquiescence and attempt to continue, giving the impression that a mass claim has been agreed.

Those that supposedly scumread me - this is not how you scumread someone. You're not engaging me, you're not asking me anything, you're not trying to figure me out.

I tried. Here, (although that was addressed to others as well). That was totally ignored. I pointed to it again here and was again ignored until Macmollie drew your attention to it and you then refused to respond. I tried again here to get at what you were thinking but again you stone-walled so I stopped trying the direct approach with you.

[Huntress]

I wasn't repeating that request now, if that is what you are implying. I was just pointing out that you can't complain about people not engaging with you if you are not prepared to engage with them.

[Huntress]

1. In that post I quoted.

2. We don't know that for certain.

3. He had already claimed and was repeating it as requested

in the post immediately before his

.

Vote: Penguin

Her name claim matching Desp's seemed a bit too convenient and I didn't like the way she tried to get others to claim.

[Huntress]

Looks like I've touched a sore spot somewhere but I'm puzzled as to where. The only thing that's changed is my read on Desp but I can't see why that is a problem for you.

Is it Desp or is it my opposition to the nameclaim?

@Macmollie: What do you think was Serra's motive in proposing the nameclaim? Why no questions for him?

[Huntress]

Looks like I've touched a sore spot somewhere but I'm puzzled as to where. The only thing that's changed is my read on Desp but I can't see why that is a problem for you.

Is it Desp or is it my opposition to the nameclaim?

Who are you talking to here?

Mainly to Sweet Pertayter who posted just before me but also to mollie.

well at the time you made this post I was voting sera so

Yes, I know. It just seemed odd you didn't mention it.



Actually I think I may have found that sore spot I mentioned.

Yesterday in post 2006 I mentioned the possibility of scum having some role that could affect Nat's results. Sweet Pertayter's next post after that was post 2262. That was followed by three posts ruling out Penguin and then they voted me without giving any reason. Which makes me wonder if I was right.

Probably not something to follow up toDay but shouldn't be ignored for future Days.

[Huntress]

are you suggesting that there is some kind of insane cop possibility here and Nat's results will be all wrong

No, I was thinking more of Godfather or possibly Tailor. Insane cop is unlikely.

Why are you actively trying to find the reasons people scumread you? That's like... scumclaiming.

I'm not. I'm looking for why someone would suddenly want to get me lynched and letting the rest of you know in case they succeed.

[Huntress]

I think I'm at L-1.

[Huntress]

I must have counted you twice then.

[Huntress]

Why would I do that?

[Huntress]

Because that's how town reacts to being wagoned by their scumreads.

Do you really believe that every townie who is voted by their scum-read does that? It's that sort of statement that is part of what makes you look scummy. My reaction is that he can't really think that's true so what's his motive for saying it. In this case it's fairly clear, you're trying to convince others to lynch me and/or you're using it to attempt to justify your actions. Tell me: Why would I call it opportunistic when you've had me as a scum read for some time?

[Huntress]

Because you're about to be lynched. You should have some sort of reaction to your biggest scumreading voting you, but you had nothing.

With you, my reaction was more a sense of inevitability that you would take the chance to jump on.

I'm more concerned with the one I have a town read on, Macmollie, wondering if I've missed something or if they are just making a mistake. I've tried rereading them but can't see anything from a quick read to shake that town read.

As far as I can see the biggest gainer from my wagon at the moment is Serra but that's confusing too because three of the four voting for me have been voting Serra. The only exception is the first on the wagon, SP, who hasn't apart from a brief time on Day one.

[Huntress]

^
^
Scum claim right there.

Mantis's vote was bad. Was I wrong about Penguin then? Or were you bussing her all that time?

I've been steering clear of all this meta stuff as I only really trust meta I've checked myself and I haven't had time to do that this game but Bert has got a point about mollie unless mac is just quibbling about words and isn't actually claiming that mollie doesn't know Wisdom's meta.

I'm still not sure about Serra as much of the evidence against him seems to rely on interactions with others whose alignment we don't know yet. The one thing that did stand out to me was this:

Could we just policy-lynch slimer? Like seriously, he's not going to replace out, he won't contribute, and he'll be a liability towards endgame.

In view of his insistence that Slimer replacing out meant he was scum, and his expressed wish to policy lynch me as a result, the fact that he originally claimed that Slimer would never replace out implies that he

knew

that the slot was town was using Slimer as a safe place to put his vote, one that he wouldn't be blamed for when Slimer flipped town as it was only a policy lynch.

[Huntress]

If Nat is still alive tomorrow he needs to explain this:

Kill P_A. He thinks I'm scum. This is important.

Why kill him if he only

thinks

you are scum? That means he would be town as scum would

know

whether you are town or scum.

See my earlier notes on SP. I don't trust them.

[Huntress]

I never did get through looking at Wisdom. My problem there is that I've seen him misrepping people as town so it's not easy to see whether it's scummy or whether he just doesn't realise he's doing it. That and his assumptions that people will only react the way he thinks they should. That was bad. However, I don't think he's scum with macmollie and I'm coming round more to seeing them as scum as I can't see any town motive for their pushing that lynch.

Null read on Fakegod. Looking at the wagons I could actually see a Desp/Fg/Nat team as its about the only one that doesn't involve huge bussing apart from that 1v1 performance which may have been put on for our benefit.