Newbie 1419 - GAME OVER

[Titus]

VOTE: jkmatthews

For newbies, this is random voting stage. We vote random players as a method of getting the game going. Nacho, your IC will explain in further detail. We are here to help you understand the game and play to our respective win conditions (wincon for short).

[Titus]

VOTE: jkmatthews

For newbies, this is random voting stage. We vote random players as a method of getting the game going. Nacho, your IC will explain in further detail. We are here to help you understand the game and play to our respective win conditions (wincon for short).

[Titus]

@mail-mil, this appears to be your first game. Self-voting is generally frowned upon, especially in newbie games.

[Titus]

@mail-mil, My apologies. I assumed a lot due to the join date. What site did you play on? Links please.

Given the fact you have played before, this tells me you like to gambit and that makes you dangerous (note dangerous =/= scummy).

[Titus]

Also, if you have any assumptions regarding jailors and roleblockers, mention them now. When I came here, assuming the wrong things greatly derailed my first scum game as jkmatthews can attest.

[Titus]

@Mail-mil, not everyone gets notice if they are roleblocked and jailors don't remove and create their own night chat. Jailors don't execute either. Your site requires a log in btw.

We need to get out of RVS and I suppose M-M's gambit got the game going. I have him as a slight townread for now.

[Titus]

Also, if you have any assumptions regarding jailors and roleblockers, mention them now. When I came here, assuming the wrong things greatly derailed my first scum game as jkmatthews can attest.

Titus, yeah that really was your undoing in that game. So... if you're town you'd think it was possible m-m was scum... so why give this friendly bit of advice to help scum not slip?

This is a newbie game to help people understand the mechanics. It would feel greatly wrong to take advantage of a newbie's deficiencies in a newbie game when that happened to myself and I felt it was a little unfair. So yeah, I have no hard feelings but it doesn't mean I need to recreate the cycle.

[Titus]

JKM, I cannot see a seasoned player doing that as scum to break out of RVS. The sign would be neon, huge and hard to shake. Look at the results the gambit achieved, the game was moving slowly but now we have active posters and FoSes starting up. Yeah, it's not perfect town read but it's enough to give him a slight town read.

[Titus]

Any action can be wifomed. Again, it's not a confirmed town read.

@Mod: Can we get prods on players who haven't posted?

[Titus]

One more question before I go to bed.

If you never had to deal with WIFOM SXTLH, why did you immediately suspect it?

[Titus]

Well sure, but this is super blatant WIFOM, bordering on scummy.

If somebody in RVS said "Guys, I promise you I'm scum and m-m is my partner", would you say "ooh what a good conversation piece - town points!"? Where's the line?

I would suppose that the player was being a troll in that instance and the behavior wouldn't have the clear intent of starting conversation. That's ridiculous. I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion the player was scummy however as I have actually seen this gambit a fair amount on sc2mafia.

Really off now. JKM's message was posted just as I was posting.

[Titus]

Well they leave out their partners on sc2mafia.

[Titus]

Generally, it is better if we ate all straight up. Sometimes gambits and withholding information are essential.

@notscience, please put jkm's thought into your own words. I am beginning to get suspicious that your vote was opportunistic and you wanted someone to make your case.

[Titus]

@notscience, I am going to ask you again. Put jkm's argument you sheeped into your own words. If you cannot, I will vote you.

@Brian, too town is usually regarded as a crap argument.

[Titus]

You reading what I posted?

P sure I already said it

But you're going to vote me anyways scum, so bring it on.

I am reading.

VOTE: notscience

Tell me in your own words what JKM's case was and why you found it appealing.

JKM's case is [insert case]. I found it appealing because of [insert reason].

[Titus]

I am a bit defensive because scum don't want people labeling each other town early. It does nothing for them. Even a slight town read early has the potential to form into a town block, so FoSing the first person to defend a town gambit seems logical to me. I'm just investigating now to see if I am right.

[Titus]

I tried to search for that quote in my ISO and I couldn't find it. So you're just nodding along with JKM.

[Titus]

JKM, I cannot see a seasoned player doing that as scum to break out of RVS. The sign would be neon, huge and hard to shake. Look at the results the gambit achieved, the game was moving slowly but now we have active posters and FoSes starting up. Yeah, it's not perfect town read but it's enough to give him a slight town read.

Don't put something in quotes when I didn't say that verbatim. The above is something I actually said. I searched for "experienced" and couldn't find it in my ISO. Instead, you misquote and add buddying language. "I cannot see an experienced player

like you

..." Of course what you quoted sounds more like buddying than what I actually said. I've said I saw the gambit and it looked like something that a seasoned scum would not do. Do

NOT

add buddying language into something I never said. That will tick me off royally. If I did that kind of crap in the read world, I'd be fired and probably not hired anywhere else in a long long time.

[Titus]

Brian are you new or not?

[Titus]

@Brian, I asked because you seem to know more than what I would expect for a guy who has just played at house parties.

[Titus]

@shiinaj, I've been asking questions of Brian because I suspect him. His language betrays an experience with forum mafia that he denied. I've played a fair amount on Epic Mafia, and quite a few of these terms weren't there. I don't see how Brian is so aware of the terms with his experience level. I think he's hiding it in order for us to interpret his actions "as a newbie". I don't usually do a

FoS Player X

, but I can if that makes it easier for you.

[Titus]

@Shinniji, I wasn't sure it notscience was being an opportunist at 73. If he could articulate his reasons for voting

and be genuine

, I would have moved on. Insread, he misreps me by adding buddying language.

Verbs has also shrouded mm's gambit in wifom. That isn't good. Almost anything can be argued as protown or scummy using wifom. I don't like that.

Brian does the same sort of attitude in 123 and 124. Notice one of the reasons isn't mm is scum. Then Brian's last post is a total fencesitter. He doesn't want to make a decision.

Only two of Brian/notscience/Verbs can scum but I don't know which. Look at what happened when I tried to suggest I had a leaning town read. That tells me scum is pushing this hard.

I am happy with my ns vote due to the misrep.

[Titus]

And what is it that they gain? Attention?

here's my thought process, which is what you are really interested in i'm guessing.

the gambit's positives: generates discussion, makes people takes sides.
negatives: pressure has been almost entirely on mail, allows scum to avoid pressure by taking a safe/easy opinion on the gambit, if scum avoids the first lynch it makes things easier on them in the later game.

3 > 2, so that is why i've been saying that the gambit is more scummy than town.

Reading through this again, I dislike how quantified the logic is here. Did you think through these and say to yourself 'Okay, this and this makes it town, but this, this and this makes it scummy, they are all equally valued in terms of scummyness/townyness.'?
Scumtells and towntells aren't things you can measure up on a scale that gets tipped over when there's a majority on one side, is what I'm saying.

Agreed. Verbs is also using it in a manner to push a WIFOM result. I don't like that. To me, mm's actions seem to be town and the paranoia regarding me stating that is extensive. Why?

[Titus]

@Brian/NS I am governed by logic as well. Which means that either I will get over this perceived deception by Brian relatively quickly, or I'll have two mortal enemies this game.

In 123, you're saying "I'm really starting to think M-M did a protown gambit" but that you're still voting him to pressure him and get more content. You also say that your suspicious of his inactivity and motivation. There's a clear logical disconnenct between 123 and 124. That's what bothers me so much. Take a position, work it through. Take the other position work it through. Waffling within that period WILL make me suspicious.

[Titus]

NS, why does it sound like I'm coaching my scumread? I'm just answering his question.

[Titus]

That's not coaching. That is just me stating something matter of factly. Waffling rapidly will make me suspicious. Within 2 posts is by definition rapid.

[Titus]

Why would you bother saying that though?

Establishing a clear train of thought and logical behavior helps the rest of the town interpret my actions.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Verbs

Post 111 (the infamous "3 > 2" post) is posted entirely from the assumption that m-m is town, yet tries to paint m-m as scum for it. Also the post analyses whether or not the gambit is good for town, not whether or not it comes from a scummy mindset.
Verbs is scum, let's lynch.

I like this. Verbs had already pinged my radar.

VOTE: Verbs

[Titus]

That is accurate. I forgot about your vote. Otherwise, I would have mentioned that.

Verbs is at L-1

[Titus]

This is correct. Someone who says intent to hammer, triggers claiming, defenses, etc. Verbs should have every reasonable opportunity to defend himself.

@Brian, so you were still scumreading m-m despite him doing a "pro-town" gambit in the early stages?

What is your read on Verbs?

[Titus]

Verbs has also shrouded mm's gambit in wifom. That isn't good. Almost anything can be argued as protown or scummy using wifom. I don't like that.

can you pinpoint specific moments where you felt i "shrouded mm's gambit in wifom"? especially moments in which i used wifom to argue for something as being a specific alignment within the game.

"too town to be town" is never an argument.

it depends on what you mean by "too town", if you mean ones actions are unceasingly trying to further the towns agenda than this is good for the town no matter the side the player is on. if you mean that a player is trying too hard to

appear

they are doing the former, than trying too hard to be town is for sure scummy.

i'm keeping my vote on titus for now, he seems a bit defensive in his exchanges with notscience and he was justifying mail's self vote in post31 which i didn't like.

This post is the best example. Basically, the implication is that m-m is just trying to look town.

[Titus]

@Titus

Although, my new analysis of the gambit gives you a slight town read instead of the initial scum-read I had earlier.

I'm inexperienced, my original reads don't mean jack.

SE voice:

Do not qualify something by lack of experience. Seasoned players will do that anyway and you've given players a reason to ignore you. Sometimes new players get it right, sometimes new players get it wrong.

[Titus]

***do that = discount reads (if they discount for being new)

[Titus]

@Titus

Although, my new analysis of the gambit gives you a slight town read instead of the initial scum-read I had earlier.

I'm inexperienced, my original reads don't mean jack.

SE voice:

Do not qualify something by lack of experience. Seasoned players will do that anyway and you've given players a reason to ignore you. Sometimes new players get it right, sometimes new players get it wrong.

I apologize. I didn't mean for you guys to ignore my initial reads. I just wanted for you to realize that my current reads may have changed considerably since then.

Nature of the game. Now you know.

[Titus]

Verbs, do you have a claim for us? Or do you believe it is too early for you to claim? You are at L-1 after all.

[Titus]

If this train is bad, I want to turn it around ASAP. If not, then I don't want Verbs to have time to think about his claim.

[Titus]

Alright if that's the way you see it. As a general policy, someone reaches L-1 I ask if they want to claim. You draw that at a different place.

[Titus]

@NS, why do you think a wagon on scum is shit? :S

[Titus]

Nothing to go off of is not great, but given there would only be one scum in the game, they'd have trouble surviving that many mislynches. That is supposing his buddy is already mislynching rather than attempting to derail because "ZOMG the train is too early".

[Titus]

I'm not opposed to using time. I just want to apply pressure to someone who I believe is scummy and see what happens. I'm not sure what you mean by "not having enough lynches". A scum by himself would struggle to get three mislynches. They'd have to get more if the scums hit the wrong target.

I'm not trying to say you are scum. I still suspect you are scum.


Brian, everyone will analyze in the game. Half of the battle is looking at what specific words they are using rather than just the message they convey. Individual words can betray a mindset.

[Titus]

I seem to think I have the context down pretty well. Go ahead and clue me in on what you think I am missing though.

[Titus]

Ugh, get his replacement to claim then kill it!

Why are you pushing for a replacement to claim while questioning my thoughts to have Verbs claim?

[Titus]

@NS, I ask for claim if the situation is appropriate. L-1 wihout suspicious opportunism qualifies. You both have grilled me on this. I agree a lynch shouldn't occur this fast but I would rather dispell the suspicion fast if Verbs is town so scum don't keep dragging it up. I am not 100% certain Verbs is scum but I am cerain enough to keep my vote there.

I don't like JKM's 196 though and it is shaking me, as if he doesn't want us to think about other players.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

I want to see this play out. JKM or Verbs both look scummy right now. Yet, their posts suggest they are unlikely a scum team together. JKM seems to be carelessly reading (giving the benefit of the doubt he wasn't pushing for an MM replacement fast lynch but misread) and strongly pushing lynches on Day 1 in the early stage. We have plenty to pressure with but lynch no.

Verbs seems to have scum motivation in his posts as previously discussed. Yet, he seems afraid to OMGUS.

The last few posts suggest they are not a scum team together though, at least that's my read.

[Titus]

I am committed to being observant. I took a position but I generally do not play recklessly. The further Verbs responds to the arguments, the further I am to figure out which is scum.

No. OMGUS is spotted and discredited. Fearing of OMGUS suggests scum as they are focused more of appearances than actual substance. Yet was poor word choice due to fatigue.

[Titus]

You seem to be committed to voting near randomly, so your vote has little meaning.

[Titus]

I am really liking Flammus's recent posts. In particular his response to my 218 and 232. I like 218 because I sometimes can be very dismissive of behaviors when I feel there is no evidence there. It's a flaw that I do need to work on. 232 has a good chunk of theory but it also gives a decent explanation of how Flammus feels about the gambit and the theory cannot be separated from the explanation so it is excusable.

Brian's comments about both himself and Letters Garden seem to be coming from a place similar to my own, like I expected. I would cede the points I know must be ceded and he has done so before even being attacked for his perceived lack of inactivity. That being said, neither of the players seem that inactive to me, so Brian's argument is valid but not sound. I'm much more worried about Verbs's disappearing act.

Mod, can we get a prod?

Shiidaji seems to have a set of expectations for normal and abnormal play. That might be a problem. I do proceed logically but I tend not to always follow social norms. I'm leaning town here.


@JKM, That was a pretty big overreaction to me giving a slight town read to M-M's slot if you never had any intention of getting M-M lynched.

[Titus]

Your reaction at the start. You and notscience seemed to be real quick to attack on me when I gave a slight town read on M-M due to his gambit. I find that inconsistent with then arguing you never wanted him lynched.

[Titus]

Why does early suspicion have to lead to a lynch? Also, I think you're confusing the issue - that line of enquiry was because I was more suspicious of

you

for giving the townread.

Why? Disagreement does not means suspicious. Why would you react that way if you had no intention to see mm lynched? It looks like you really did and were pushing that hard which is in contrast to your later post.

[Titus]

@JKM, Really, you cannot see town motivation behind analyzing players early? If you didn't want MM lynched, like you claimed, then you just immediately turned your attention to the first player to post content and attacked. That doesn't make much sense either.

@Verbs, explain now please.

[Titus]

I don't like Flammus coming in on defending Verbs. Let players speak for themselves.

[Titus]

@JKM, you never highlighted anything terrible about the analysis. That's because the analysis wasn't terrible. You're stretching.

[Titus]

Welcome phokdapolees! Any chance you have a nickname you like?

[Titus]

prod doge. Will post in morning.

[Titus]

I agree with NS on Verbs lynch and that's why it worries me. Shiidaji made a good point on NS's inconsistencies though.

[Titus]

@Nacho Who's the scum team right now for you? In case you fly out into the sunset, we need to win it for you but also be mindful of people sheeping your reads for ill-advised reasons

titus and fuckthepolice

I'm not sure who fuckthepolice is but if you only knew me offline, you'd know how much I disdain the police.

Since it's close to the deadline, intent to hammer.

[Titus]

I am thinking this guy is an epicly bad newbie but it seems like it's him or no lynch. This doesn't read newbie scum though. I will hammer when I leave to go to bed. I won't be back before then and we need a day 1 lynch.

[Titus]

I am thinking this guy is an epicly bad newbie but it seems like it's him or no lynch. This doesn't read newbie scum though. I will hammer when I leave to go to bed. I won't be back before then and we need a day 1 lynch.

Bert isn't scum. Give me a scumteam that you can believe in with that knowledge in mind.

That post referred to phokthepolice, not Bert.

VOTE: fuckthepolice

I know you don't like Bert as scum but he hasn't done anything that would distinguish himself from JKM other than repeatedly say he's town. The other slot would be Verbs or Brian Skies. I don't like Bert and Verbs together so I'll say Bert and Brian Skies are the scum team.

[Titus]

I'm fine with Phok. Titus is the bigger threat, that's why I was making sure.

phok is scum, titus dies.
phok is town, reanalyze.

I am fine with this. If fuck flips scum, we have a mislynch on me. I wouldn't be thrilled with it but the town wouldn't be able to trust me.

[Titus]

I know you don't like Bert as scum but he hasn't done anything that would distinguish himself from JKM other than repeatedly say he's town.

bert isn't scum, try again.
if you need me to say this is a "hypothetical" then consider it said.

Hypothetically, Verbs and Brian Skies.

I don't really see more than self-vouching from your recent posts Bert.


Yeah, I know we went at it at 513. I was caught for something I didn't do and had a bunch of lurking allies. Blah. My buddy didn't listen to me. We lost. I'm over it.

[Titus]

Hi everyone!

It is always darkest before dawn...

Let's find scum!

Image Redacted

Half a vouch, meaningless content.

I'm Bert and I've been on Amrun's replacement waiting list for a while now.

I was hoping to play scum against Nacho, but NOOOOOOOO.... I had to replace into a townslot where I cannot torment Nacho with my evil-tacular ways

GIF Redacted

Self vouch.



Just for examples. Anywhere where you say I'm town or let's do townie things =self vouching.

[Titus]

I am really liking Flammus's recent posts. In particular his response to my 218 and 232. I like 218 because I sometimes can be very dismissive of behaviors when I feel there is no evidence there. It's a flaw that I do need to work on. 232 has a good chunk of theory but it also gives a decent explanation of how Flammus feels about the gambit and the theory cannot be separated from the explanation so it is excusable.

Brian's comments about both himself and Letters Garden seem to be coming from a place similar to my own, like I expected. I would cede the points I know must be ceded and he has done so before even being attacked for his perceived lack of inactivity. That being said, neither of the players seem that inactive to me, so Brian's argument is valid but not sound. I'm much more worried about Verbs's disappearing act.

Mod, can we get a prod?

Shiidaji seems to have a set of expectations for normal and abnormal play. That might be a problem. I do proceed logically but I tend not to always follow social norms. I'm leaning town here.


@JKM, That was a pretty big overreaction to me giving a slight town read to M-M's slot if you never had any intention of getting M-M lynched.

Titus this is your last mention of Brian. Why is Brian scum - what's the reasoning behind your scumread of him??

Nothing in that post says Brian is town, just that we reached a pair of mutual reads. He hasn't posted at all with phok. My last post hadn't mentioned him and he hadn't generated new content in awhile. The last part makes me suspicious.

[Titus]

Are you kidding me

Those were my two opening posts before I even read the game

Now tell me why Brian is a scumread

So why did you feel the need to self-vouch before even reading the game? Only scum need to self-vouch so fast.

[Titus]

Frankly, I don't give a shit what you buy. I really like you as scum. I liked your slot before you replaced in. My list of reads.

Nachomamma8 - Town but misguided on your slot.
fuckthepolice - Town has attempted to contribute but just seems like a bad newbie.
Brian Skies - Seems scummy. Contributes at the start but ignores the thread at deadline time. I never had a solid feeling about this guy being town. Yeah, he agreed with me once but I cannot say he's town. I really don't like the co-exist comments since that could have been said for my slot and his. He is my third place scum read.
Bert - Misreps my read on Brian Skies. Prior player in slot was scummy. Totally resisted anything that looked like a town read at the start (JKM did).
Verbs - Very scummy opening. Hasn't posted much since then to recover.
notscience - nullread. When I think he's scum, he does something townie and vice versa.
Shindaji - town read.


I don't give a shit who you've hydraed with or people's reads of you. I am a very stubborn player. Put a case together. Don't expect me to rely on your own meta from games I never saw. Not going to happen.

[Titus]

Also, your refusal to hammer Bert is suspicious as fuck. We have less than 12 hours to get a lynch off. I don't like this target but we need a lynch to get information on day 1.

[Titus]

I am voting phokdapolees. I was from awhile back but I said "fuck the police" in my vote tag.

VOTE: phokdapoless

Just to clarify.

That vote was invalid. This one is valid.

~Amrun

[Titus]

I am off until hammer time unless a miracle happens. If you'll hammer me, really look at Bert as scum. That slot is scummy as hell. In the rare event I get to L-1 and cannot claim, I am a VT. The town needs a lynch, if it's me well fuck this game.

There are less than 12 hours in the day. Bert is trying to make a no lynch happen.

[Titus]

This push on me was based on meta from another game. That's stupid as meta is not high value. There is a case the slot is scummy. I was hoping to be lynched so Nacho could go back to reading slots than wishful thinking. Frankly, I am not sure why some of you thought 513 is damning at all. Now instead, the scums get one likely mislynch, will push me tomorrow and be in a great position because of this crap.

[Titus]

Sorry I had a work emergency the other day and I hadn't realized this.

I'm a VT. I know I'm probably no where near L-1 but I saw something about Nacho wanting to lynch me if I wasn't a PR. Well, I KNOW I am prime lynchbait at the end of the game if I live that long. Either trust that my read on the dead mafia was a total fuckup or lynch me now. I do have the strongest associative tells. So make up your minds either way.

[Titus]

Was sick. Catching up. If I'm dead/replaced, please ignore.

[Titus]

Ok Verbs has cleared me.

That leaves

Nacho, NS, Brian Skies, Shiddaji and Flammus as scum.

I am not sure Flammus is scum or not due to his lack of content and being an apparent newbie from Epic Mafia. I'm ok with that. Can we get a vote count and a deadline?

[Titus]

Why the urge to lynch?

I have noted that fact and it's probably right that I give too much emphasis on players being new.

[Titus]

I am going to hammer now.

VOTE: Flammus

[Titus]

V/LA Monday, and possibly the rest of the week. If not this week, then next week will likely be a week long V/LA. The mod has already been notified.

[Titus]

Ugh... that response. All NS needed to know was that someone was FoSing him to vote them.

[Titus]

Work is yanking my chain. V/La might start next week.

[Titus]

I don't either provided it wasn't followed by a vote. Only scum kill in this game. So he outright says you are scum and doesn't vote you. Makes sense.

VOTE: notscience

[Titus]

Not V/LA, worked yanked my chain

[Titus]

Brian, I would like to see your analysis of the slots. All of them.

NS, same goes for you. While I believe you are scum, if you are not, an analysis of the remaining players would be beneficial for the town.

[Titus]

*cough*you missed my post*cough*

Please analyze the rest of the players.

[Titus]

Acknowledged Brian. Now that I know you're town this will be interesting to work through this. I know our main objective is to find scum. Yet, if we can clear one as town, then the scum cannot win. Three towns versus one scum is a recipe for disaster given the size of the game. I'll put up my own (smaller) walls and respond to some concerns I see in the posts. For instance, you seem to think logic = town. Not always so. Nacho has to deserve some scum points for how the Flammus lynch went down.

[Titus]

Been busy Brian but I like how the votes are distributed right now. I am going to unvote to allow time for rev7ew but I can be certain Shii is not likely scum.

VOTE: unvote

[Titus]

I'm leaning towards lynching Nachomamma at this point.

Meanwhile, I'd like the three remaining players to make an educated guess as to one of you being town and the other being scum.

[Titus]

I am fine with a NachoMamma lynch. Not much direct communication of substance between the pair and Nacho has lived too long.

I am also thinking scum is NS/Nachomamma due to the meta. Bert was going to be gung ho to lynch me. Shooting him naturally points the finger back as me being scum. NS has been in the only game I played with Bert. Nachomamma was all to ready to lynch me today and it took Brian's claim to clear me.

[Titus]

I am attempting to reason why Bert was killed over you, who gains and who loses.

[Titus]

That's stupid as meta is not high value.

Did I say I was using meta? No. Meta is how a player acts supposing the player would act in the same way. Looking at history/knowledge and judging who gains what is not meta.

Nacho, it is just as likely you fooled Bert. Bert viewed at least part of this game with historically colored glasses. He thought I was scum based on 513.

[Titus]

Meh. Same difference. It took your slot to clear me.

[Titus]

For once, I actually upon review would prefer NS. Since we both feel that Shii is town, can we lynch Nacho today and then do NS tomorrow?

[Titus]

For once, I actually upon review would prefer NS. Since we both feel that Shii is town, can we lynch Nacho today and then do NS tomorrow?

Why do you prefer NS? I don't think NS would stand a chance against either Shii or Nacho. Have you seen my walls?

I have seen your walls. NS's opening was very strong and town like. He did somethings that made me think he was scummy earlier but that's almost a requirement of town NS.

Nacho on the other hand has practically told us that we should take the slot's living as suspicious. Nacho's interactions with Bert look off and Nacho's generally been the fuel behind most of the mislynches.

Nacho, on a side note, what is your read on Shii?

[Titus]

Actually, instead of reading, how confident are you that Nacho is scum? What do you propose us do if Nacho flips town? Do you think Shii is worthy of a townblock at this point?

Quite possibly Shii is worthy of that. Notice how Nacho keeps missing the question about the read on Shii?

[Titus]

Of course there's always a lot of doubt in players that I'm not that familiar with, but I had a strong townread on him early on and I have a good townread on him now. I looked through his posts a while ago, and I didn't really find anything I could feasibly attack.

Why are you looking for things to attack?

[Titus]

I never noticed either of your breadcrumbs. Then again, I don't do that. Also, why would we gain anything from Nacho crumbing PR supposing that is true. Nacho's play and comments usually make her an nightkill even as a VT. So why would town nacho crumb PR?

[Titus]

Nacho's play has irked me. There's only one legitimate reason I can think of to crumb PR when you're not. Wifom the scums into killing you. Here, Nacho did that in a much different manner by claiming that the scums would kill her. Then why the crumbing? It would only serve to confuse town. Also, Shii might be onto something in 696. Nacho's play changed dramatically when Bert entered the game.

[Titus]

@Mod: Can we have the nine hours lost due to the site being down added to the deadline?

Funnily enough, I wasn't actually aware it was down at all. I just happened to be doing other things. But yes, sure. VC will be changed to reflect this.

~Amrun

[Titus]

If their thoughts aren't in by Sunday, I'm voting Nachomamma.

[Titus]

I never noticed either of your breadcrumbs. Then again, I don't do that. Also, why would we gain anything from Nacho crumbing PR supposing that is true. Nacho's play and comments usually make her an nightkill even as a VT. So why would town nacho crumb PR?

While crumbing a PR, I'm also giving the new doctor advice on where the protect needs to be going. I'm also WIFOMing the scum so that they will shoot me over the optimal play (the tracker). There is absolutely no reason I should be shot for being me when there is a power role that can determine alignment with 100% accuracy in play.

Here, Nacho did that in a much different manner by claiming that the scums would kill her. Then why the crumbing? It would only serve to confuse town.

I say that scum will kill me because scum usually kill me, which is a pretty well-known fact by now.

Nacho's play changed dramatically when Bert entered the game.

Bert tends to center his games around me (Day 1, figuring me out, figuring out if he wants to follow my reads or not), meaning that it works better for our dynamic if I am loud, active, and have my hand in all things. This is not my only playstyle.

We're both here. Respond to my defense instead of ignoring it.

I did notice it. Your defense is a lot of wifom. Also, I think your rapid shift was an attempt to get Bert to label you as town, rather than actually being town. Bert should have been able to read you without a massive shift in gameplay.

Brian, please lynch Nacho with me today. If we're wrong, I'll lynch NS with you/for you tomorrow.

[Titus]

Well apparently changing your play to revolve around getting a townread from a player is possible from a town perspective. Yet, my gut screams you are scum for that. That post seems manufactued as if you expected this.

Brian, NS is not the type of player to wall. He is brief and concise but that opening looks a hell of a lot like his town games.

[Titus]

Brian, we need to lynch. Place your vote. I will sheep tonight.

[Titus]

VOTE: notscience

Let's see who is right. I am sheeping you B.

[Titus]

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Never mind. I am getting my way.

[Titus]

If Nacho flips town, you are probably getting shot as ns has a better chance of convincing me he is not scum.

[Titus]

Well we have a long twilight so you might as well put your best case forward.

[Titus]

What? No one died. That is literally asinine in this setup. Sorry for not posting. I thought I was dead.

Can you send a friendly message to Brian Skies?

[Titus]

As we should. I missed the thread opening. I hope the host messaging you didn't count as a prod.

[Titus]

BS, can you come up with a reason why either scum would no kill? It seems much more likely we could be dealing with inactive Shii scum who just never submitted it.

[Titus]

What makes you think it was a no kill? It is very likely that one of us was targeted.

Rational behavior suggests no kill. Shii and ns were not going to kill each other. That means either you or me would be the target. Both of them would know you cannot jail yourself. Therefore, I would b the jail target. Logically, the scums would have to kill you.

[Titus]

Late last night I didn't have the matrix in front of me. I remembered wrong. However, that makes a bit more sense now. You have clarified.

[Titus]

Let me test something. Shii, what role do you think Brian is?

Brian, do not answer.

[Titus]

Sush Brian. Let the crazy woman operate.

[Titus]

Mod: Can we have a prod on Shii?

[Titus]

Let me test something. Shii, what role do you think Brian is?

Brian, do not answer.

Please answer this first Shii. Include your confidence level.

[Titus]

Brian Skies, what role are you actually?

[Titus]

No. I wanted to be sure. I knew the scums knew. I am the type as doctor who would have gone for the less obvious. If both town knew, knowledge was not a slip. That is what I was thinking.

Of course, I could be the real doctor healing you.

[Titus]

I am thinking Shii is the last scum. Look at his interactions with phokdapolice

[Titus]

Rereading the last few pages I'm feeling better about Titus, some of my problems with him earlier could have been attributed to playstyle in retrospect and I'm picking up on some townvibes now, plus Verbs/JKM atp both being on him gives me willies.
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Flammus replacing Mail doesn't place him high from the beginning but I'm reserving judgement until I see more of his thoughts.
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Brian's 231 is basically where I'm at with a lot of people, more nulltown on nacho but other than that his stances mirror mine closely, he describes my Titus feeling perfectly, and describes how I feel about Gaiden's activity.

I'll give my opinion on the gambit. M M didn't seem like the most expierenced of players. I doubt that he could've pulled a scum self-vote out. It attracts attention and the spotlight to himself, which goes against the general mindset of newbies which is "please don't notice. Please don't ask me any questions".

I think his train of thought was "if I self-vote and show the town how I like to move out of RVS, then I'll get town reads."

Now I can just hear someone saying "get town reads? WTF! Why would a town need town reads? Obviously it's scum needing to avoid suspicion." But it's not just scum who need to be recognized by town. The whole town all bandwagoning a town player does no good for the overall town game.
This whole post problaby made no sense, but I'm tired. I don't know why exactly he used that gambit, and all we can do is speculate. My point is, usually a self-vote should be a red flag. But in a newbie game, where he said (I'm pretty sure he said this) that he played on other websites, then it might be an acceptable strategy there. He problaby didn't know the negativity it would bring him, but it DID get the game rolling.

That's the clincher though, after Mail self-voted, he didn't deliver on content before replacing out, which goes against this notion of him being town-who-knew-what-he-was-doing.
Flammus's 'I'll give my opinion' on his previous slot does give me some feelings of 'Hi, I'm town and let me tell you guys what I feel my predecessor was thinking' vibes, which comforts me.
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Verbs's Gaiden vote is ok? It makes sense, but the tiny case could've been produced by either alignment without much effort, in general feels very lazy.

I don't like Flammus coming in on defending Verbs. Let players speak for themselves.

While I don't agree that it's defending, the foreign justification feels like something a buddy could do, revisiting if either flips red.

phok's reads and rationale matching mine are reassuring, just like Flammus I'm reserving judgement here because he might've just replaced someone who didn't know what they were doing.

Vote: Verbs

This in hindsight is not reassuring at all.

[Titus]

Not always true ns. If you are useless to your faction, suboutm

[Titus]

Rephrase please. I don't understand.

[Titus]

Apathy can come from town or scum ns.

[Titus]

I'm fine with letting the deadline pass if we get an intelligent response. I've had an insane day at work and I love to take my time and read in lylo.

[Titus]

NS, what do you say if there is a replacement found for Shiidaji to resetting the game from this point?

[Titus]

Not being lazy. Can you quit interrupting my tests or do you just want me to vote Shii and end this?

[Titus]

Will read tomorrow. I like Shii but Nacho is usually right as town.

[Titus]

VOTE: notscience

The opening is scummy as fuck. Final answer.

[Titus]

Blah. I only voted ns because I wanted an extra day and thought BS wouldn't be around. I wound up trusting Nacho over myself because I wasn't sure. Bad play on my part.