Newbie 1419 - GAME OVER

[Brian Skies]

Sry for my late reply.

Wondering how the set up works. Will we know what roles are in the game and will it reveal on death?

[Brian Skies]

Brian here, dunno if my other post went through. Sorry for posting so late.

[Brian Skies]

Ah, I see now that there was a whole second page before I posted.

As far as what happened on the first page, I feel that m-m could have been messing around since someone mentioned the random lynching. I also feel like it's too early to discern any useable reads on you guys.

[Brian Skies]

This is my first game playing mafia through the forum. The only experience I have is two games with friends.

It's been a few days and a few people still haven't posted. =(

[Brian Skies]

I now understand that I will try to avoid WIFOM like the plague.

I agree. After playing epicmafia for a few days, WIFOM gets you suspected by more experienced players even if you really are town. Trying to outsmart your fellow players can lead to your own undoing.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE : Medoner

If I'm going to invest who knows how much time into this game, I'd rather play it with people who actually care. So I'm gonna keep my vote on an inactive player until I am given sufficient reason otherwise.

[Brian Skies]

@ brian: any reason you picked Medoner rather than nachomamma?

Nachomamma has an "IC" next to their name. So I'm assuming Nacho is a special type of player and I expect this person to actually show up. As for Medoner, I'm just using him to hold my vote. I can always change my vote. But as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather vote for someone who I think isn't benefiting us than potentially lynching an asset that we can use.

In terms of my current suspicions, you guys are talking in circles, so it's hard for a player like me to single anyone out.

M-M's supposed gambit aside, I do have a small fos on titus. His actions seem too kind and pro-town to me, and too much WIFOM for my taste. While I appreciate him helping the newer players, in a game like Mafia where deceit and distrust is not uncommon, I find it a little off-putting.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian, too town is usually regarded as a crap argument.

I'm not making an argument for anything. You guys asked me who I suspected and I told you. I'm not saying I think titus is scum. I'm just being more wary of him because I feel like he was trying to do the newer players a favor. And it feels wrong to me.

[Brian Skies]

Vote: Verbs

JKM, I cannot see a seasoned player doing that as scum to break out of RVS. The sign would be neon, huge and hard to shake. Look at the results the gambit achieved, the game was moving slowly but now we have active posters and FoSes starting up. Yeah, it's not perfect town read but it's enough to give him a slight town read.

on the other hand, why would a town player do something like that? its directing all of the current suspicion at himself when it doesn't need to be. he knows that he's not scum = waste of time unless scum obviously screws the pooch. what do you think?

I see you trying to erode Titus's townread on m-m without really taking a position on m-m. Which scenario do you think is the most likely? Is he town or scum?

i have more of a scum vibe from mail currently; if we assume that he knows what he's doing (as per his comments regarding other games he's played in), and we assume that he is town, his actions just don't make sense to me.

I agree with Verbs that logically M-M's actions don't make sense to me. If he is an "experienced" player, it can be assumed it was a gambit. But in a newbie game, there is no guarantee the other players will recognize it as such. So right now, it just seems like an attempt for him to seem more pro-town than he needs to be.

[Brian Skies]

Brian are you new or not?

I have already listed the limited experience that I have. If I don't seem new, it's because I know how to research things I don't understand.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian, I asked because you seem to know more than what I would expect for a guy who has just played at house parties.

I've only played Mafia at one house party, but it was two games. Although, I'd hardly consider the second game as me playing since the town lynched me right away.

And I have been playing Epicmafia for about the past week or so, which I did mention before.

[Brian Skies]

i have more of a scum vibe from mail currently; if we assume that he knows what he's doing (as per his comments regarding other games he's played in), and we assume that he is town, his actions just don't make sense to me.

Do they make sense from a scum perspective?

more so than from a town perspective. at least scum would have something to gain from it.

If you are talking about the supposed gambit, then I disagree. I feel like the "gambit" benefits the town more because it acts as a catalyst for discussion. This discussion is crucial in getting any reads off of other members. Also, it may help the town from lynching possible town power roles. Furthermore, unnecessary attention and scum-like moves can make the mafia more distrustful.

On the other hand, there is the possibility the mafia could have been avoiding the random lynch or trying to appear more pro-town than they need to be.

But being more of a pro-town move doesn't make it any less scummy. The move still makes no sense to me in a newbie game because there's no guarantee the other players will recognize it as a gambit.

And what is it that they gain? Attention?

Not necessarily attention. The only attention I could see the mafia wanting is a pro-town read. In every other case, they'd rather be ignored and let other people be in the spotlight. Like it's been mentioned before, M-M could have been avoiding the random lynch. And it greatly benefits the mafia to keep the random lynch off of either of them.

This is just my opinion, I'm still not leaning either direction in suspecting M-M.

Hey Brian

Have any opinions on alignment yet

Currently, I am almost certain that Medoner is aligned with the void.

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE : TITUS

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE : Medoner

Please disregard the above post. I had a mental lapse and was thinking of titus for some reason. I'm currently holding my vote.

[Brian Skies]

As in, any town/scumleans yet?

These are my current leans:

Leaning Mafia : M-M, titus, Nacho
Mostly because the way they have been playing seems suspicious or it's rubbing me the wrong way.

Leaning Town : lettersGaiden, notscience, JKM
I have a small gut feeling for notscience and JKM. As for lettersgaiden, I feel there is a serious lack of scumminess in her part. But considering how she won her last game as mafia, it concerns me.

[Brian Skies]

@Shiidaji : I'm surprised your reads and my reads are so similar. The only difference is that you have Nacho in the grey. The issue I have with Nacho is that he has been helping guide the discussion, but he hasn't actually contributed much in terms of his own opinions.

Not to say I think Nacho is mafia, this is just the slight lean I have of him. I have also considered other things that may give him a town read for me, but I'd rather have him engage a little more first before I suggest them.

And what is it that they gain? Attention?

here's my thought process, which is what you are really interested in i'm guessing.

the gambit's positives: generates discussion, makes people takes sides.
negatives: pressure has been almost entirely on mail, allows scum to avoid pressure by taking a safe/easy opinion on the gambit, if scum avoids the first lynch it makes things easier on them in the later game.

3 > 2, so that is why i've been saying that the gambit is more scummy than town.

Are you listing the gambit's effects in regards to the town, to M-M, or to the mafia (taking into consideration whether or not M-M is indeed mafia)? Because I don't think having the pressure being almost entirely on M-M benefits the mafia if he is indeed scum. Also, people taking sides can be both beneficial and dangerous depending on how you look at it.

Sorry for complicating this for you, but I like to look at things in shades of grey rather than black or white.

[Brian Skies]

@shiinaj, I've been asking questions of Brian because I suspect him. His language betrays an experience with forum mafia that he denied. I've played a fair amount on Epic Mafia, and quite a few of these terms weren't there. I don't see how Brian is so aware of the terms with his experience level. I think he's hiding it in order for us to interpret his actions "as a newbie". I don't usually do a

FoS Player X

, but I can if that makes it easier for you.

If you question the type of language I should have been exposed to while playing Epic Mafia, it's probably because I've already experienced a few ranked games trying to convince the other players I'm town when there are only two blues and a mafia goon left. Sometimes this process lasts upwards of 30 minutes. You'd be surprised how many times WIFOM will get dropped in that situation. Furthermore, Epic Mafia has this nice little system that tells you what each little piece of jargon means when you scroll over it. The funny thing is, the first few times I saw WIFOM I thought it said Whine In Front Of Me and completely missed the reason it was being thrown against me.

When was the last time you played Epic Mafia? If it was a long time ago, perhaps its current set-up is completely unfamiliar to you now and it would benefit you to check it out again .

Besides, one's experiences (and learning curves) are not the same as another's.

I'm also extremely interested to know what language I've been using that I shouldn't have been able to.

He just said he knows how to use a wiki

He could have just done his research

Also, I did indeed do a little research of my own on the Mafia Wiki, including one article that lists the meaning of the most common abbreviations and jargon Mafia players use (admittedly, although I saw WIFOM on Epic Mafia, it wasn't until I saw it on this forum that I bothered to look it up). Not to mention beginner's guides (yes, I'm one of those people who actually reads beginner's guides before involving myself in new games).

One thing I did not mention was the reason I even wanted to try out Mafia Scum, and that is Koibu from Twitch.tv. I watched a couple games from his channel a few weeks ago and wanted to find a way to play it online. Although, because of the amount of time it takes to watch each game, I think I've only seen a handful of them up to this point (trying to catch up). But their meta is confusing and offers little to newer players, so I didn't bother listing it as experience earlier.

Like I said, I am able and willing to research things I do not understand. Just because I

signed up

for this game with almost no prior knowledge doesn't mean I can't learn anything along the way.

I think the mistake you're making isn't the information I should and shouldn't know, but the quality of that information. And I rate jargon as low quality (the application of said jargon, however, is completely different).

[Brian Skies]

And if you don't believe me Titus, look back at the time stamps from the first mention of WIFOM (Post #29), my first posts (#40-42), and my first mention of WIFOM (#51). This was actually when I had to look up WIFOM to make sure I wouldn't use it incorrectly (JKM's usage made me suspect I didn't understand it and I was right).

[Brian Skies]

Brian, it's practical and almost expected due to site-meta to always have a vote down on one of your scumreads - Perhaps if you vote Mail with me he will be encouraged to actually post content.

More content from M-M and Nacho is what I desire most right now, so I think I will take you up on your offer. I didn't realize having the vote active on someone was so important.

VOTE: M-M

[Brian Skies]

@Nacho

It's funny that you directed so many of these questions at me pertaining to M-M. I've been spending the last few hours reading through lettersGaiden's first game (motivated by the way he was playing). There is so much information oozing out of the first few pages (I'm up to page 10 btw; Sakura and Saki are making it hard to read and follow along).

I didn't originally have a lean either way in regards to M-M's supposed gambit. In fact, I didn't feel like I had enough information to comment on it because I didn't understand what was going on well enough at the time. So, considering it was a newbie game and someone mentioning we should random lynch to get the game going, I assumed M-M took it as an opportunity to mess around. I ignored the gambit until I could process what was going on and tried to see what other people thought on the matter.

The only time I actually established any leans for myself was when I decided it was a good idea to let the forum know my current leads, and I did. The reason I had a slight scum read on M-M was mostly because of the discussion between Titus and JKM, as well as trying to trust my gut. I also felt that if it was a gambit, it was terribly executed and an experienced player would have known better (my inexperience getting the better of me here).

After reading the article about the RVS in lettersGaiden's first game, I'm starting to understand the phase a little more and why M-M would have wanted to do it. And the more I process the information presented and the logic behind such a move, I'm starting to think M-M really did try to create a pro-town gambit. Although, his inactivity and lack of motivation to make his move clear to us still keeps me suspicious of him.

Effects of Gambit for Town (FMPOV)
Benefits : Generates discussion, moves town out of RVS more quickly (most important thing for Day 1), makes people choose sides (good for scumhunting and information gathering)
Cons : leads too much attention to M-M (if town misunderstands), scum can hide if attention never shifts to them

[Brian Skies]

I'm still keeping my vote on M-M for the following two reasons:

1) I don't appreciate the self-vote (anti-town move)
2) I want to pressure him in defending himself and creating more content

[Brian Skies]

It not pressure if you tell him its pressure.

Pretty sure he would have already known considering Shiidaji asked me to do it.

[Brian Skies]

Also, now that Nacho voiced his opinion, I think it is highly unlikely Verbs is teamed up with M-M. Verbs is pushing way too hard.

As for Verbs and Titus, I think it's possible but difficult to read. They have opposite stances on M-M, but they could be avoiding the "buddying" tell (which is completely useless imo).




Also, it's super early in the morning as I'm making these posts and I'm really tired. I'll try to process all the information I just absorbed more thoroughly when I get the chance. (Once again, I really am new to this game and am learning/absorbing/analyzing as I go.)

I'll update my reads as well.

[Brian Skies]

Verbs has also shrouded mm's gambit in wifom. That isn't good. Almost anything can be argued as protown or scummy using wifom. I don't like that.

Brian does the same sort of attitude in 123 and 124. Notice one of the reasons isn't mm is scum. Then Brian's last post is a total fencesitter. He doesn't want to make a decision.

Only two of Brian/notscience/Verbs can scum but I don't know which. Look at what happened when I tried to suggest I had a leaning town read. That tells me scum is pushing this hard.

Where's the WIFOM in my post? I had just read an article based on the RVS when I noticed Nacho's post. It was early in the morning and I was tired (not a good time to try to clearly analyze things), so all I did was report what I read and my initial reactions. I'll post the link : http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13710. And it's found in letterGaiden's first game, which I already mentioned.

As far as me fencesitting, how is that different from the way I've been playing all game? I held my vote early because I was confused as heck as to what was going on. Then I held my vote because I didn't want a quick mislynch on a possible town (which is a bad move for town).

I'm an inexperienced player. I want to make decisions, but not uninformed decisions. And trying to get all the information I can is the best thing I can do for town right now.

[Brian Skies]

Shii, you don't know how I work.

I'm not a clear, concise, detailed and methodical person

I wing things

I like meta

Titus is just voteparking and 2/3 of his scumreads are shit

And bullshit that's not genuine, I stated how

I

interpreted it. Your vote on me is a shitvote and probably there to stay off leading wagons.

Verbs/Titus scumteam, wrap it up and ship it to grandma.

I'm pretty much governed by logic, so you are the closest thing to my mortal enemy in this game. XD

[Brian Skies]

@Brian/NS I am governed by logic as well. Which means that either I will get over this perceived deception by Brian relatively quickly, or I'll have two mortal enemies this game.

In 123, you're saying "I'm really starting to think M-M did a protown gambit" but that you're still voting him to pressure him and get more content. You also say that your suspicious of his inactivity and motivation. There's a clear logical disconnenct between 123 and 124. That's what bothers me so much. Take a position, work it through. Take the other position work it through. Waffling within that period WILL make me suspicious.

Thinking it's a pro-town gambit doesn't make it one. I chose to keep my vote on him because he hasn't generated the content to make it beneficial to the town. In fact, after the attention has shifted away from him, he has disappeared from the forum (the only exception being him chiming in at post #93). THIS is the inactivity and lack of motivation that makes me suspicious of him.

[Brian Skies]

This is correct. Someone who says intent to hammer, triggers claiming, defenses, etc. Verbs should have every reasonable opportunity to defend himself.

@Brian, so you were still scumreading m-m despite him doing a "pro-town" gambit in the early stages?

What is your read on Verbs?

Verbs wasn't really pushing onto M-M until Nacho's first meaningful post (did show concerns early on, but nothing definitive). Nacho presented a problem regarding M-M's supposed gambit. Verbs and I have been trying to work through it since.

Do I think Verbs is pushing? Possible. Do I think Verbs is just trying to answer Nacho's initial question? More likely.

And yes, I am still scum-reading M-M. His current actions don't support his gambit.

[Brian Skies]

@Titus

Although, my new analysis of the gambit gives you a slight town read instead of the initial scum-read I had earlier.

I'm inexperienced, my original reads don't mean jack.

[Brian Skies]

@Verbs
I agree with JK in post #158. I have already expressed the same concerns earlier in post #112. How are you weighing each advantage and disadvantage? They shouldn't all be equal.

You need to be more clear in your analysis.

[Brian Skies]

@Titus

Although, my new analysis of the gambit gives you a slight town read instead of the initial scum-read I had earlier.

I'm inexperienced, my original reads don't mean jack.

SE voice:

Do not qualify something by lack of experience. Seasoned players will do that anyway and you've given players a reason to ignore you. Sometimes new players get it right, sometimes new players get it wrong.

I apologize. I didn't mean for you guys to ignore my initial reads. I just wanted for you to realize that my current reads may have changed considerably since then.

[Brian Skies]

i actually didn't vote on mail so far, i've just been outlining my suspicions because i've been asked about them. the way that i have thought about it is that, with no other knowledge besides ones strategy/posts, if a strategy/post is more scummy than town i tend to look at the person as being more scummy than town.

Sure, but you didn't say the strategy was scummy. You only said "it has these negatives (if he's town), so therefore he's scummy". The bit in brackets is implied by your analysis.

isn't it implied that i thought the strategy was scummy if i have been making a case against him utilizing the strategy as the backbone of my argument?

also i dont understand what difference it makes if hes town or if hes scum? if he does something it has an affect on the game regardless of alignment or original intent.

The goal is to eliminate all mafia. If M-M is town, than it doesn't benefit the town to lynch him at all.

A mislynch is never good imo because it allows the mafia a free pass at attempting a night kill. The only exception is if it directly leads to finding scum (for example, process of elimination proves that one of two suspicious people are mafia). I do not believe any such situation exists right now.

[Brian Skies]

Because it's page fucking 7 and people are asking for a claim. Even if he IS scum we have NOTHING to go off of yet, and the day just started.

I'm willing to wager his buddy already is bussing him, but I can't tell who it is thus far because of how fast everyone jumps down his throat.

I agree that I don't understand this wagon. You guys have been jumping down his throat about him analyzing a gambit, which he claimed was in response to Nacho's posts (which I have already suggested in post #153).

[Brian Skies]

I actually meant to quote post#176.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not opposed to using time. I just want to apply pressure to someone who I believe is scummy and see what happens. I'm not sure what you mean by "not having enough lynches". A scum by himself would struggle to get three mislynches. They'd have to get more if the scums hit the wrong target.

I'm not trying to say you are scum. I still suspect you are scum.


Brian, everyone will analyze in the game. Half of the battle is looking at what specific words they are using rather than just the message they convey. Individual words can betray a mindset.

Analyzing is useless if you don't understand the context. You have continually chosen to ignore the reason he offered his analysis in the first place.

[Brian Skies]

Sorry for the late post. Was waiting for the replacement and lost track of time. I'll read over what's happened and state my thought.

[Brian Skies]

After reading through, these are my new reads.

Nacho

- Townread. I asked for more content, and Nacho responded in kind. I agree with most, if not all, of his content. Furthermore, Nacho invites more discussion which I find to be extremely beneficial to town.

Shiidaji

- Townread. Mostly the same as Nacho. Points out many things that I have noticed, but is better able to clearly define his thoughts.

notscience

- Slight townread. If she is truly the type of player she claims to be, then I will have a lot of trouble reading her (based on own experiences). However, even random players have to play this game logically at some point. At the very least, her recent actions give off a pro-town vibe for me.

lettersGaiden

- Nullread. I originally felt a good vibe from lettersGaiden, but the recent lack of activity makes me concerned (especially when you remember how she won her first game). But from the same note, my recent lack of activity would make me suspicious as well. It seems that a lot of her posts are used more to dodge prods than actually being beneficial to the town.

titus

- Nullread. I currently have him wavering back and forth on my spectrum of townies and scum. He has his moments where I believe he is town and he is making pro-town plays. Then he goes and makes an L-1 and asks for a claim.

Flammus

- Nullread. This is based on the slot, not Flammus himself. I believe the gambit would be considered "pro-town." However, M-M's actions didn't seem to support this. I expressed concerns, but with M-M's recent departure, I guess I will never know.

Verbs

- Slight scumread. In my opinion, his analysis on the gambit is still flawed. However, having terrible logic doesn't necessarily make a person scum (purposely flawing the logic, on the other hand, is different). I still don't see the supposed push on M-M that other people claimed.

JKM

- Slight scumread. At first, he had pretty consistent reasoning for his voting process. Then he avoids a prod dodge with a pretty worthless vote on me (no reasoning, concerns, etc.). When he comes back, he claims Verbs is scum and asks for a lynch. Then when M-M gets replaced, he conveniently uses the excuse that he thought Verbs was getting replaced (not going to argue whether or not this is true).

UNVOTE : FLAMMUS
VOTE : JKM

After M-M disappearing into the abyss, there is now a giant gaping hole in my soul that Flammus will never be able to fill. However, now that M-M is gone, JKM is now the most suspicious to me and I believe he deserves my vote (for now at least).

[Brian Skies]

I'm quite sad at how many people have been replaced already. Having to read and re-read everything can become quite taxing.

Also, what does it mean when somebody "flips red?" I know townies are considered "blue" in Epic Mafia. Does that make "red" players mafia on this forum?

[Brian Skies]

This is like the Replacement Game or something. Hard to read people when everyone keeps getting replaced.

[Brian Skies]

JKM's slot is probs town

Why do you think this, but not the same way for Shii?

[Brian Skies]

You know...I was totally ready to vote Phok after post #338 (not a bw vote, mind you). And then when I get ready to post my vote and reasoning, I find the post stream has exploded midway into page 15. Thank god for post preview protection.

[Brian Skies]

Oh, and you guys totally missed me freaking out cuz I thot I hammered an L-1.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, here is my reasoning behind my Phok hammer that (thankfully) didn't happen. Well, yet, at least.

1) The previous slot-holder, lettersGaiden, has a ton of posts, but almost no content. They are mostly prod dodges, random votes, and "what u thinking" based questions. Nothing really beneficial for the town. It could just be her not knowing how to deal with other players taking the lead. But considering how she won her first game as scum, this concerns me (and I've expressed this before). And I wouldn't put it past her to utilize the same strategy.
2) The current slot-holder has done almost nothing since replacing into the game. Sure he posted his initial reads, but his untimely temporary leave so close to lynch day and so soon after his initiation into the village has prevented him from making a strong case as a townie. Step it up if you really are town, please.
3) It's prejudice, I know. But I really don't like his username. It irritates me, especially since I appreciate cops. (This doesn't actually have any real weight in my read; but in all seriousness, I loathe that name.)

Also, despite my original suspicions of JKM, I'm starting to lean more towards town on the slot since Bert's arrival.

[Brian Skies]

A bit of a hypo read for Nacho in case she bites the dust, eh? I like that you suggested it because I was thinking about it too.

[Brian Skies]

Loool, I like how you post how it's supposed to be read, and not the actual way it's written.

[Brian Skies]

Almost laughed as hard as when I read the vote on Bert right after post #325.

[Brian Skies]

Im still re-reading, didn't even read pages 15 and 16 yet, but yea, there is a mistake in teh voting. It's still L-1, but Bert unvoted while Titus voted.

[Brian Skies]

@Nacho

So, I went through and re-read the whole game thus far. But I'm still confused as to why you were scumreading JKM and townreading titus before suddenly flipping once Bert appears. Why did your reads flip?

[Brian Skies]

I'm starting to think Titus and Bert can't coexist. It was destined for the two to fight each other since the JKM era.

[Brian Skies]

Oh, and also the two people I have hydra'd with, ever, are both in this game right now - notscience and Nacho. Nacho reads me like an open book, and most of my games have been with him.

It's not just a coincidence that I come in and they both townread me.

Titus if you're town (doubt it) and think Im not with Nacho as a scumteam (you don't), then you ought to take that under consideration just a wee bit, dontcha think?

Why so stubborn and looking with such a narrow perspectiv

What does it mean to hydra?

Also, titus' recent play makes me suspicious. The only action that makes me townread him was him thinking M-M's gambit was pro-town (still unconfirmed, but I did hypothesize it could have been). His early actions seem like he wanted a pro-town read on himself (possibly trying to gain buddies in the town, doing favors for newbies). And the forced L-1 and ask for a claim still bugs me. And he still doesn't really have much reason to suspect me other than he doesn't believe I lack experience (unless I missed something).

I mean, if you can give me sufficient reason to suspect Titus is scum and we have the power to flip, I will do it. I have townreads on Nacho and notscience right now.

[Brian Skies]

Frankly, I don't give a shit what you buy. I really like you as scum. I liked your slot before you replaced in. My list of reads.

Nachomamma8 - Town but misguided on your slot.
fuckthepolice - Town has attempted to contribute but just seems like a bad newbie.
Brian Skies - Seems scummy.

Contributes at the start but ignores the thread at deadline time

. I never had a solid feeling about this guy being town. Yeah, he agreed with me once but I cannot say he's town.

I really don't like the co-exist comments since that could have been said for my slot and his

. He is my third place scum read.
Bert - Misreps my read on Brian Skies. Prior player in slot was scummy. Totally resisted anything that looked like a town read at the start (JKM did).
Verbs - Very scummy opening. Hasn't posted much since then to recover.
notscience - nullread. When I think he's scum, he does something townie and vice versa.
Shindaji - town read.


I don't give a shit who you've hydraed with or people's reads of you. I am a very stubborn player. Put a case together. Don't expect me to rely on your own meta from games I never saw. Not going to happen.

What do you mean I've been ignoring the thread? I've always kept up except for the time when M-M got replaced. And I do get burnt out from slow-moving stuff like this (constantly reading and re-reading gets taxing, especially for people not used to this). Also, I don't understand what you mean by us not being able to coexist with each other. You and JKM have been at each other all game. Bert seems to have some sort of vendetta against you. There is none of that between the two of us.

[Brian Skies]

The problem with Titus is that he does town things (intentional or not), but has huge red flags that make him scummy. I had a little of the same problem with JKM when he tried to force a bw on Verbs. Although, you seem to give more of a townish vibe than JKM.

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE : Bert
VOTE : Titus

You guys don't need me to hammer Phok. So I will put my vote on Titus for now in case my townreads need the extra power to flip the vote.

I also tend to stay up late, so I can always change it if I need to.

[Brian Skies]

I'm also extremely interested in Shii's opinions. Especially since I have a strong townread on him.

[Brian Skies]

Are you a college student Bert?

[Brian Skies]

Good, now I don't feel bad about you staying up late.

[Brian Skies]

I have a class in 9 hrs where I'm gonna waste gas money to do nothing but get a syllabus and complain about overpriced books. First week = complete waste of time and gas money. And two weeks from now, half the people who show up this week will not be seen again until midterms and finals.

Hope it's better on your end. I heard dorm life is pretty sweet. I commute, so yea.

[Brian Skies]

Night 1 took sooooooooooo long.

Anyhow, here are my reads copy and pasted from notepad. I will need to readjust them now that Bert is dead.

Shii

- Strong townread. Could have declared intent and hammered Verbs if he was scum. Post #154
shows that he is actively promoting discussion and getting the town more information. Our
thoughts align pretty well. Still don't agree with his early Verbs suspicions, but I tend to agree
with mostly everything else. Everything he does promotes discussions, and nothing he says goes
unwarranted.

Nacho

- Strong townread. Could have flash-wagoned Titus, but adamantly pushed for a Phok lynch. Promotes
discussion, and I can't currently think of a reason she would want to actively bus her partner so
badly (not ruling it out though).

Bert

- Townread. I didn't like the original slot-holder, but JKM's recent actions seem to be pro-town. I
also don't see why he would want to out his partner THE DAY he replaces in. Any suspicion here is
mostly based on JKM (I have suspicions for Bert, but they can mostly be attributed to paranoia and
WIFOM).

notscience

- Townread. Not much of a leading player. Needs a re-read. Post #276 concerns me. Post #304.

Titus

- Townread. My self-proclaimed nemesis still thinks I'm scum. I don't really care because she hasn't
produced anything strong enough to get me mislynched and I think she's town. Aside from some
scummish things, most of her thoughts makes sense from a town persective.

Verbs

- Slight townread. I don't see the link between Verbs and lettersGaiden. His actions seem mostly
townish to me. I DO have my own suspicions, but they are so shrouded in WIFOM (even to me) that
I don't favor them much, if at all.

notscience

- Townread. Not much of a leading player. Needs a re-read. Post #276 concerns me. The paranoia
that saved Verbs gets town points.

Flammus

- Strong scumread. I dislike this slot so much, I lose sleep at night. M-M's actions still don't
make sense to me from a town perspective. Original reads from Flammus on post #221. Convenient that
lettersGaiden gets a townread. Post #225 is a weak attempt to promote his townread on lettersGaiden
and raises HUGE red flags for me. I understand the quickhammer avoidance could have earned "towny"
points, but nothing else. His reads on #229 seem too safe and superficial. I also don't like lurkers.

Flammus was my original vote based on the lynch. So I'm going to vote him until I redo my reads.

VOTE: Flammus

[Brian Skies]

Also, the read on notscience above is a little weird, because I needed a reread that I never did (got tired of reading).

[Brian Skies]

also i would not recommend reading up overnight. i always seem to be the nightkill when i do that >.>

Warning me against wasting effort? How nice of you.

But don't worry, this is the only game I'm in, and I got really bored.

[Brian Skies]

Green is my favorite color, how nice of you to notice.

[Brian Skies]

And won't you look at that, my biggest scumread falls into the yellow.

[Brian Skies]

Brian, does Flammus's 250 make sense in a Flammus-Gaiden team? Look at it.

It lacks too much substance. I could have said the same thing.

All he does is reiterate what Verbs said. But he didn't say how he felt about it (just that he was gonna do an analysis). So I still think it's possible for the two to be in a team.

What do you think? I feel like you are pointing this out to me for a reason, but I can't see it. Only thing I can see is him avoiding a definitive opinion on his partner if he is indeed scum.

[Brian Skies]

After that, he doesn't do anything beneficial to the town. I don't know if he was hiding or what.

[Brian Skies]

Gaiden, notscience, and Titus, all three of them contested or questioned Verbs's vote to varying degrees in the preceding posts, Flammus!Scum could've simply gone along with the flow, or perhaps not even said anything. That he would rationalize an argument against his buddy, instead of vehemently agreeing or disagreeing with it, doesn't sit with me as him being scum. I don't have a strong argument for Flammus town tbh, but I feel we have better odds attacking elsewhere.

What do you think about Titus in relation with Gaiden now that you have time?

-

ns you're cute : ) Reread that post to yourself btw because you're not helping yourself.

I do feel that Titus is a strong candidate for pairing up with lettersGaiden. She was last on the Verbs wagon and last on the Phok wagon (didn't get to hammer because Bert wanted it). I also find her a strong candidate to have killed Bert. And since no one hammered the easy Verbs lynch, I think either lettersGaiden's partner was too scared to do it, or both scum were already on the wagon (another possibility is the partner missing the window of opportunity). Bert flipped town, lettersGaiden's slot flipped scum, and I'm reading town on Nacho. That leaves Titus.

[Brian Skies]

Be nice children.

[Brian Skies]

WHO THE FUCK IS THE INVESTIGATIVE PR

Calm down Nacho. The day just started. Let's not do anything brash. Maybe the investigative PR hasn't realized day 2 started.

[Brian Skies]

WHO THE FUCK IS THE INVESTIGATIVE PR

Calm down Nacho. The day just started. Let's not do anything brash. Maybe the investigative PR hasn't realized day 2 started.

don't worry i'm calm and not planning on doing anything brash (although i'm fairly confident there's not much i can do that's too brash)

Noted.

Anyhow, who do you think are possible links to lettersGaiden?

[Brian Skies]

I am off until hammer time unless a miracle happens. If you'll hammer me, really look at Bert as scum. That slot is scummy as hell. In the rare event I get to L-1 and cannot claim, I am a VT. The town needs a lynch, if it's me well fuck this game.

There are less than 12 hours in the day. Bert is trying to make a no lynch happen.

[Brian Skies]

Does that count as a claim?

[Brian Skies]

Pretty sure Bert claimed before he got shot too.

[Brian Skies]

Well Nacho

Titus is probs scum

flam maybe

Then Shii

Then Brian

Then you

then bert

I take that as your reads list, in order.

[Brian Skies]

But where does Verbs fall into that list?

[Brian Skies]

sounds to me like we got a lynch on our hands!

And if she flips town?

[Brian Skies]

Titus has moved to second on my scumlist (Flammus still reigning supreme). But if notscience thinks it's a good idea, I'll go with it. I'm assuming her earlier post is a valid VT claim, so we wouldn't be risking a PR.

[Brian Skies]

Then Nacho might die

(and if he dies and we have a doctor I will be severely angered as will bert)

If not him then Brian

Then tomorrow Shii will push me

Shii you should look up my meta

Because meta is a wonderful thing

The part in bold scares me.

[Brian Skies]

Also, there is the chance that there is a jailkeeper or doc that chose to save nacho n1 (in which case, the pr isn't outting to save himself and he has no information to give).

[Brian Skies]

Nah, it's not time to lynch yet. I want Titus to come in and have their say and I want Flammus to talk a bit more.

I like this. I still don't like the M-M/Flammus slot.

[Brian Skies]

Nacho lets make a townbloc

you

me

brian

This was mentioned before. What is a townblock?

[Brian Skies]

Totally not what I thought it was. When Titus first mentioned it, I pictured something like a barricade.

[Brian Skies]

It's a mighty barricade against town loss. I would love for NS and Shii to sort out their issues and join the block hand in hand, though. You 4 are my golden hopes and I would love for you to get along nicely.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[Brian Skies]

Shii you should look up my meta

Because meta is a wonderful thing

I don't have time for that, if you want me to see you as town show me yourself or quit your grandstanding.

And I also agree with this. Reading through lettersGaiden's games was easy, because she had only completed one. You on the other hand...yeah, no.

[Brian Skies]

But I will say that you have my trust because of Bert and Nacho, and I don't see anything that would lead you to being scum at the moment. There are some suspicions, but I suspect everybody (as I should!).

[Brian Skies]

And if we're all definitely town, then scum don't have a chance.

[Brian Skies]

Shii doesn't realize how I play

I'm waiting for shii to realize that I'm town

The first step is realizing that not everyone can trust you based on another's words.
The second step is lynching the last scum so no one needs to be paranoid.

I'd actually be more worried if someone trusted me based on word alone.

[Brian Skies]

2) Who would that scum be then

I might actually agree with Brian re: Flammus.

That's nice, care to elaborate why?

[Brian Skies]

This is a game about Ethos

If you establish yourself enough I don't see why that's an issue

Because your ethos resets every game.

[Brian Skies]

Well duh

I don't trust anyone out of the gate

But once it goes on you get that

But you're also basing it off a meta that not everyone is going to be able to become accustomed to. I said this before, not everyone's experiences are the same.

[Brian Skies]

Well yeah

For me, I love to use meta and gut when reading people which is why it doesn't bug me too much

I can't do that. My gut is an idiot.

[Brian Skies]

Is it weird that I read both of those posts all the way through, expecting something different?

Anyhow, despite Titus' being relatively scummy in certain parts of Day 1, she seemed super town before the lynch. I'm not saying it's enough to get a strong townread off of, but enough to make me look elsewhere.

[Brian Skies]

Vote: Flammus

here you go brian!

Thanks, but I'd be happier if you believe it's the best lynch. I don't wanna lynch him without good cause, because Flammus flipping town would make me feel bad (looking at you Bert )

[Brian Skies]

Titus's a great inspection target

And so is Verbs, but I prefer Titus.

[Brian Skies]

Well yeah

For me, I love to use meta and gut when reading people which is why it doesn't bug me too much

I can't do that. My gut is an idiot.

Gut becomes more effective the longer you play; it's important to differentiate when your gut is your subconscious pegging town/scum and when your gut is actually just paranoid turnings of your subconscious. I use it more than I announce, but learning to trust and fine-tune your gut is actually a decent skill in mafia AND real life.

I agree. I use it more in other aspects of my life. But my lack of experience and my gut insisting on tricking me into making bad moves in Mafia makes me want to ignore it.

However, I am using my gut pretty heavily on the Flammus wagon.

[Brian Skies]

The thing that bothers me most is the slot not being on the Verbs wagon. Cowardly play or missing the window of opportunity? I can't decide. But it's still enough to vote for Flammus.

[Brian Skies]

there was already scum on it and hammering townies isn't always the best move as scum.

True, but it was an easy lynch. Anyone could have done it. I could have done it and claimed "newbiness" like lettersGaiden did in her first game.

[Brian Skies]

If you did it and claimed newbiness I would lynch the everloving fuck out of you the next day. It also wouldn't surprise me if he was waiting for someone else to do his dirty work for him.

Thank everything cute and holy this didn't happen then.

[Brian Skies]

Is that L-2 or L-3 nacho

Should be L-2. I think it takes 4 to lynch with 7 people in the game.

The votes up to this point:
Titus : Shii
Flammus : Brian, Nacho

not voting : Verbs, Flammus, notscience, Titus

[Brian Skies]

Howdy. I'm Flammus.
Sad to see I already got two votes on me. Anyhow, I'll be reading over these pages and get back to you.

interesting.

Very. But hard to read for me.

[Brian Skies]

Prod modge

also completely disappeared when we were lynching his townread...

I wish I was a Pr.
Actually I don't. To much responsibility.
And I'm 50% sure that I didn't kill Bert.

you cheeky scumfuck ;[

Exactly what I thought when I read those. Just didn't mention the second one for w/e reason.

[Brian Skies]

Well, not the part about us lynching his townread, just me being extremely annoyed with post 287.

[Brian Skies]

It's sooo quiet here. People really need to post before our mod starts prodding a third of our town.

Wants disscussion to continue. +1 town point.

on that note neither is "too scummy to be scum"

I'll this just in case. Don't just vote verbs. Please declare intent and allow him to make a case. Early mislynches will only serve to hurt us in the long run.

He uses "us" and doesnt want a quickhammer. Probably a "of course. thats obvious to say that" to most of you guys, but it sits well with me.

This is probably the biggest issue I have with him. Seems like he's trying to hard to clear his (unconfirmed) partner.

[Brian Skies]

Howdy. I'm Flammus.
Sad to see I already got two votes on me. Anyhow, I'll be reading over these pages and get back to you.

interesting.

Thinking Amished? The post gives me mild townvibes personally.

Sleeping on this, good night.

Actually, I find it interesting because he wasn't the leading wagon at that point in time. It makes since for town replacements to worry about votes on them when they are the leading wagon because there's always a lot of extra pressure, but two votes shouldn't be that big of a deal unless you're thinking of it as two people you have to get off you to win.

Pretty much why I've been ignoring Titus all game.

[Brian Skies]

Howdy. I'm Flammus.
Sad to see I already got two votes on me. Anyhow, I'll be reading over these pages and get back to you.

interesting.

Thinking

Amished

? The post gives me mild townvibes personally.

Sleeping on this, good night.

What does amished mean?

[Brian Skies]

but mostly i can't see scum outside flammus, so.

Woot. Figured out how to multi-quote more easily. Anyhow, I completely agree with this now that Verbs and Titus are confirmed town.

ALL HAIL BERT

Bert coming in and messing up scum's day. Too good.

[Brian Skies]

Feeling really good about this lynch right now.

[Brian Skies]

hammer flammus at will! if he wanted to contribute, he should have given us something to sink our teeth into right now.
worried he'll flip town?

Not really. If he flips town, it's his fault for being scummy. And if that happens, we look elsewhere. We have enough of a town block to find the mafia, no matter where he's hiding.

[Brian Skies]

And besides, Titus is confirmed town by Verbs.

[Brian Skies]

I HEARD HAMMER

VOTE: Flammus

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Didn't u already vote him?

[Brian Skies]

ALSO

Wisdom pushed mara hard yesterday yet conveniently jumped off (without changing his read on her) and that ended in a compromise lynch

What? Who are these people?

[Brian Skies]

SON OF A

WHY DID YOU SAY THAT

IT COULD HAVE GIVEN SO MUCH INSIGHT

Also, my apologies. I didn't realize it until I started recounting the votes.

[Brian Skies]

Not entirely sure (someone may need to double-check), but the vote count should look like this:

Flammus - Brian, Nacho, notscience
Titus - Shii

Not voting - Verbs, Flammus, Titus

I think it's 4 to lynch, so that puts Flammus at L-1.

[Brian Skies]

I am not sure Flammus is scum or not due to his lack of content and being an apparent newbie from Epic Mafia. I'm ok with that. Can we get a vote count and a deadline?

I understand that experience affects your reads on newer players, but it shouldn't. You should be treating every player the same way. Giving newer players advice (myself included) is important, but treating us the way you would other players is even more important. That's the best and fastest way for us to learn. You can't discount a player's actions just because he/she is new or less experienced. Otherwise, they'll be using the same "newbish" moves over and over (see lettersGaiden's first game and this game).

Also, the Epic Mafia is a good point. They tend not to talk much on early days (if at all), and then the people who talk on later days to find information or make cases tend to be scumread (even if they are town; see WIFOM). Epic Mafia is mostly gut based, and it becomes extremely annoying to deal with those types of players at times. Mostly because a lot of scumreads on that site are total bs.

[Brian Skies]

Why the urge to lynch?

I have noted that fact and it's probably right that I give too much emphasis on players being new.

I'm not saying to hammer because we said so. If you hammer and you don't believe he's scum, then you aren't doing your job as a confirmed town. However, we've already laid out the evidence of him being the most likely. Furthermore, he has had ample opportunity to convince us otherwise, which he hasn't even bothered doing.

And the inexperience only gives me more reason to want the lynch.

OH shit.

Deadline's tomorrow?



OK, VT.


Don't bother waiting for a claim lol. I haven't even read the game yet.

I'll be done by tonight since I have school tomorrow morning

Why kill Bert when he already claimed VT? Either the scum totally missed this and hit a non-power role by accident, or the scum is inexperienced.

[Brian Skies]

I'm the one who started this bandwagon, so I understand that makes me suspicious. But I'm pretty darn convinced the Flammus spot is scum. If for w/e reason he flips town, these are my reads:

Shii - Slight scumread. He was acting suspiciously at the beginning of Day 2.
notscience - Slight scumread. If not Shii, then by process of elimination, notscience would be scum. notscience helped stop the Verbs wagon (huge towny points) and Bert and Nacho seem sold on him.
Nacho - Strong townread. All signs point to this.

Verbs - Clear. Or should be since no one has counterclaimed the possibility of it.
Titus - Clear.


I mean, if for whatever reason Flammus flips town (which I think he will), you can look at notscience, Shii, and me next.

[Brian Skies]

Oh my god, typo in the above post. I think he will flip scum, not town.

[Brian Skies]

And Verbs should be checking me, notscience, or Shii. Preferably not me though, because if Flammus flips town, the noose would be around my neck faster than I could scream "GUYS, NO, STAHP!"

[Brian Skies]

unvote

He was acting suspiciously at the beginning of Day 2.

Elaborate.

Verbs, check me or Brian. If Flammus isn't scum ns-scum or nacho-scum would become pretty evident after a while.

I just don't see how you can think notscience was likely to be mafia, and totally miss Flammus.

And I don't mind if I get checked. I'd rather just claim, but whatever.

[Brian Skies]

By the way, I don't actually have a scumread on you. But if Flammus flips town and I end up dying, those are my updated reads.

[Brian Skies]

unvote

He was acting suspiciously at the beginning of Day 2.

Elaborate.

Verbs, check me or Brian. If Flammus isn't scum ns-scum or nacho-scum would become pretty evident after a while.

I just don't see how you can think notscience was likely to be mafia, and totally miss Flammus.

And I don't mind if I get checked. I'd rather just claim, but whatever.

My thought process is pretty clearly explained, I felt that Flammus wouldn't be as likely scum as Titus before the latter was confirmed, and was explaining my ns suspicion. My Flammus read as a whole was unrelated and unshared at that point.

@ the latter post, ffr just say you think I'd be scum should Flammus flip green

, it avoids confusion and makes your stance look less wishy-washy.

I understand.
And the part in bold, I thought that was inferred. I apologize for doing such a terrible job of it.

I'm just really convinced Flammus is scum, and it's getting to the point of aggravation.

[Brian Skies]

You still suspect Nacho? Understandable, but why?

[Brian Skies]

I just feel there are better checks.

[Brian Skies]

I am disappointed with Flammus' lack of motivation to prove his innocence.

[Brian Skies]

Oh hai Nacho!

Shii isn't convinced for some reason. And if for whatever reason that Flammus might flip town, he wants more information out of this day. Shii is on V/LA by the way. Verbs also shares the same point of view.

But no one is really posting, so can't really scumhunt. Especially with our only confirmed town, Titus, being quiet all of a sudden.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not opposed to extending the day for more information. I just don't see why everyone is being so cautious. There was pretty good evidence against Flammus and he hasn't done much to convince us he's town.

Even so, no matter what alignment you are Flammus, don't you dare selfvote.

1) It hurts town if you're town.
2) If you're scum, it's considered bad manners as you are basically claiming to everyone you're giving up.

[Brian Skies]

To answer your questions Flam, go back and read how we originally caught onto Phok. Then read into why we eventually hammered Phok.

After that, read the beginning of Day 2 starting with my vote on you.

By the way, our other leading suspect, Titus, was confirmed town by Verbs.

[Brian Skies]

Also, if Flammus does flip town for whatever reason, these are my new reads:

Nacho - Reading town all the way.
Shii - Less town than Nacho, but has been mostly pro-town. Helped tremendously day 1 in gathering information and sorting. My earlier suspicions are mostly attributed to aggravation. I need to learn to realize that what I think is true may just be something I want to believe.
notscience - Seems the least town, not necessarily scummy. If Flammus flips town, someone has to be scum. Was least helpful Day 1 in reading and sorting, but had that powerful paranoia move that stopped a bad Verbs wagon (thank god for that). So huge towny points for that.

Well, I guess that leaves me. Seems silly to offer a read of myself, so I won't.

[Brian Skies]

When playing a townblock would have been to your advantage no less.

[Brian Skies]

I could give you a pretty good argument why I don't suspect the block, but I'd prefer to spare you the WIFOM.

[Brian Skies]

PR
Discuss!

Also, I feel bad for tunneling Flammus. It's my fault we lost Verbs for nothing. I think we should go back and look at Shii's fos on notscience. It might not mean much, but there might be something he's seeing that we aren't.

[Brian Skies]

Yeah, that response was pretty bad, but I'd like to hear more from notscience first.

[Brian Skies]

And if Shii comes in and cc's me?

[Brian Skies]

Well that's a terrible example. If Shii cc's me, we auto-win.

[Brian Skies]

I'd still like to hear more from Nacho and Shii. Even though I'm heavily town-reading Nacho, I like to remain skeptical.

[Brian Skies]

So Nacho, it's Day 3 now. Why are you still alive?

[Brian Skies]

Not sure what you are saying, but if I'm right, then it has something to do with Nacho wouldn't kill Bert based on their reactions (Bert should have had a pretty good townread on Nacho)?

[Brian Skies]

Since I feel like I should be proactive given the V/LA's and Nacho being busy as always ( <3 you Nacho ), I will present dedicated wall-posts (I didn't like the word case for some reason) sometime tomorrow or Thursday.

Titus, ummm, you're already clear. CONGRATULATIONS! I guess.

[Brian Skies]

@Nacho : It was a joke.

I don't have time right now to do my wall-posts. But if I do need to make them, they'll have to be done way later (back-to-back-to-back classes T_T).

But, based on what I see throughout the game, it's not looking good for ns.

[Brian Skies]

I thought Nacho was the PR ftr, especially towards the end of Day 2.

Why did you think this? Also, does this make me confirmed PR?

Brian, why do you think ns is scum?

I never said this. I just said it's not looking good for him.

I'm townreading you right now (although not discounting super OP IC bus FTW). So it's just pretty much a toss-up between Shii and NS right now. I haven't actually had a chance yet to go through the entire game again, so yea...

[Brian Skies]

Okay, so I'm just not in the mood right now because it's late and I'm tired. But tomorrow I will have the time to finally post my giant walls. Look forward to them.

Also, I would like it if Shii would provide the reasoning for his suspicion on notscience from Day 2, even if it isn't applicable anymore.

[Brian Skies]

The notscience Wall-Post

21

Really? You got a slight townread off a bandwagon vote?

46

Comments on the gambit, but doesn't provide an opinion on it (ever).

53, 55, 57

Doesn't take much for notscience to vote Titus. Takes JKM's reasoning and runs with it.

59

I like the confrontation.

79, 81

Adequately fills the logical disconnection for her argument.

90

I like this post because I had the same issue with Titus.

92

I didn't have any opinions yet. But why ask me mine without offering yours?

96

What is this shit? Why not do something with it? It's not RVS anymore.

103

You ask for my reads again. Where are yours? What about the other players in the game? Why is it so important for you to have my reads in particular? Gaiden is in this game too!

110

Then why did you vote her? What did you get out of the vote? What have you gotten out of that vote?

114

This makes me happy that you're proving you're following the game. But, I don't know if I should be concerned of buddying at this point.

135

I didn't like this post. The reaction directed towards Shii was terrible. I also don't get how you got to a Verbs/Titus scumteam so fast.

139-143

There is discussion between Titus and Notscience regarding whether or not Titus was coaching me. I don't know what to make out of it, but I'm not liking it. Thoughts?

176-198

This is where I get a good townlean for notscience. There is some paranoia here, but it feels like good paranoia. Also, JKM was getting way too scummy.

230

I like the pick-up on Flammus, but I'm surprised this didn't ping any suspcion for you. This gave me a ton of red flags as he could have said it about anyone but chose Gaiden, one of the least active, to attribute it to.

239-242

What is this crap?

245-251

Explain. These posts just don't sit right with me because it just looks like buddying.

270

You disagree? Why?

272

Okay, this is Phok's post. But look where notscience is placed and the reasoning. Distancing?

274

Why not just accuse him of being scum and create pressure? If you're scum, why not just bus him?

278-282

Well, post 276 is kind of misleading based on the placement of the quotes. But how are you not able to explain it? We just spent an entire page with you forcing us off a Verbs wagon.

288-294

This goes back to the whole Verbs wagon thing. Why not just say this in the last group of posts?

300

Why?

304

JKM's slot wasn't anything spectacular and people can sub for a variety of reasons. Plus, JKM was the scummiest person on the Verbs wagon. The reasoning is weak. Shii seemed way more town to me.

309

Meta stuff. Not my thing.

315

More meta stuff talking about universal scumreads hitting town.

317-321

Whether or not you've been having luck, why not help the town do their job anyways? Right now it just feels like you are making other people do the work for you.

326

This post made me laugh. But in all seriousness, you just said the JKM slot was probably town.

332

I understand the vote change. But why Titus?

335

I like this post. Didn't take Nacho's post at face value.

345

Jumping on the wagon that I wanted to be on. (T.T) Where is the reasoning though? This was a slot you were buddying for most of the game. Now that it's about to get lynched, you force the L-1.
* notscience disappears for the rest of the day. Read into that however you wish.


*Day 2 starts with AtE and possible scum theatrics.

493, 495

Why the hard push on meta? Shii isn't even voting you. Terrible reaction imo.

501

Patting yourself on the back? For what? Yes, you were on the wagon. Yes, you caused the L-1. No, you did not provide anything useful in getting that lynch other than providing us your vote.

511

Oh look! Something that slightly resembles a reads list! With no reasoning...

520

More meta stuff that most of the players don't care about. Instead of pushing your meta onto us, how about convincing us you're town?

529

Why? Why not Shii? Why do I have to do it when I've been reading Shii as town up to this point? Why does Nacho have to do it when she's been reading Shii as town since almost the beginning of the game?

536

Why should he? You haven't given him any reason to treat you as town.

546, 548, 549

More meta pushing that no one wants.

556

This isn't indicative for me, but someone else might see something.

619

We didn't, actually. Why so keen for a hammer? Why not wait to see what Titus has to say? Or Verbs?

632,635

Why Nacho? I thought she was in your townblock. Investigative roles are there to make the game easier for town, not to make you feel good about your reads.

643

Good catch.

649

I'm sure I understood what the first line was referring to the first time I read it. I don't anymore.

653

Albeit sarcastic, WIFOM?

Spoiler:

Day 3 concerns
Why are you so sure Nacho is town? What happened to that Nacho paranoia of yours?

Things to consider:
-Was on every bandwagon.
-Possible buddying with Gaiden until Phok was suspected.
-Took credit for the Phok lynch even though there was almost no contribution.
-Didn't seem very beneficial to the town and didn't offer much insight in terms of opinions or reads for most of the game.
-Almost entirely relies on meta to confirm self as town.
-Phok's reads had notscience as the scummiest and for terrible reasoning (distancing?).

-Prevented a terrible Verbs wagon based on good paranoia and super scummy JKM.

[Brian Skies]

The Nacho Wall-Post

82,83,93,98

First appearance and immediately provides discussion generating content.

122, 200

Helps generate content. The IC interactions feel genuine and Nacho still finds a way to let us know his opinions without revealing everything. I'm also liking the read on Titus' slot up to this point because you were the only one who saw it this way. If you were scum, I think you would have been more likely to go with the general concensus. Also, where is the suspicion on Gaiden up to this point?

201

Good vote. Wasn't afraid to start the wagon.

204, 222

I liked the interactions between Nacho/Verbs and Nacho/JKM. I can see the scumminess Nacho points out in JKM. Also, how do you view NS and Titus not voting the JKM slot now?

267

Finds a valid reason to stay off the Verbs wagon. Starts to find Gaiden suspicious. I think this is important and explains Nacho's later wagon-starting vote. Also, I'd like some elaboration on the notscience townread in this post. Good pressure on JKM.

269

Claims Shii is town. I have a pretty good idea why you would think this, but you should humour me and explain it anyways.

271

I like the reaction in this post.

306

I don't think this slot is indicative, but I wouldn't mind if someone provided their own thoughts on it.

307

Here are Nacho's initial suspicions of notscience, and I think it's warranted.

308

Why?

313

Another post I don't find indicative but decided to include anyways.

316-323

I find the reasoning against notscience to be genuine and I can see where this might be coming from.

324-333

Bert does his thing. Nacho votes Phok, the suspicious and unsorted slot from post 267.

334

Why? How do you feel now?

339

I guess so.

340

I like this reasoning. How do you feel about the slot being linked to notscience?

349

Good reaction/reasoning.

353

This is warranted because JKM was super scummy in my opinion.

364

Who is the most likely scumteam to you now?

371

Why are you so sure that Bert isn't scum?

373-374

Don't really see the motivation for Nacho bussing her partner at this point. The wagon was started by Nacho and was pushed pretty heavily even in the face of a Titus flashwagon.

380

Still pretty sure Bert is town. Meta is a scary thing.

386

I like this post, but only because Titus was wrong (please forgive me Titus).

389,390

What did Titus post that made you breathe more evenly?

441, 443

Stands by the lynch. I'm townreading this, but I wouldn't mind other people's opinions on it.

450, 452

I don't know how to read these posts. Seems adamant about getting more information at her own expense.

*Day 2 Nacho/notscience begin the day with AtE

462

This post seems a little too brash to me. But I'm liking the demand for investigative information.

464

Still a little bit brash in this post. But as a whole, I guess I like the content.

467-468

I'm assuming this is a joke.

471

At least until the PR comes out and nullifies both of your lynch candidates.

476

You rang?

477

Seems open to other opinions.

481

Too funny on the re-read.

482

I'm taking this advice to heart considering I tunneled pretty badly.

498

Getting pretty annoyed that the investigative PR hasn't outed. But this isn't indicative to me at this point.

507

I'm liking the paranoia.

508

I'm liking the openness to other people possibly being scum. Especially Flammus because the slot was pretty scummy.

516

Seems pretty happy to find that Titus claimed VT. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

526,527

Still open to Titus being town. I don't know how to read these posts though.

535

Townblock talk.

542

I'm liking how Nacho can understand not everyone takes meta at face value.

545-onwards

Nacho presents a hard case. Flammus is screwed.

552-553

What about your position? You were in the same position as Shii!

555

I like the logic in this post.

560

I like this post a lot too.

565

There is a pretty hard stance on the Flammus lynch (that makes two hard stances for the wagon votes).

570

Nacho already planting his seeds of fear and terror into me.

573

I don't find the logic in this post to be indicative.

574

And yes. He was pretty cheeky.

580

Provides strong logic to support 573.

590

The content before this just paints Flammus as obvscum (even though he wasn't). I don't find this post indicative because there was a 50% chance of there being a doctor to protect Flammus. The confidence isn't misplaced.

594

Willing to take more information from obvscum Flammus.

598

Until it did.

599

Strategic tracking advice.

600, 601

More reason to believe Nacho had good reason to be confident in the lynch.

639, 640

I don't find this indicative because we are essentially wasting time. No one is providing any content that was opposed to hammering Flammus.
*Flammus provides some good logic towards the end, but the evidence against him was pretty damn strong. A stronger defense may have saved him.

664

Nacho outs the PR, which is what we needed.

674

Questions the townread.

679

I like how Nacho questions reasoning that may (or may not) be in his favor.

687

I like this post.

693

I never said this, but when you see the upcoming wall-posts, you can see my suspicions.

Spoiler:

Day 3 Concerns
None currently. Seems pro-town thus far.

Things to Consider:
-Was on both lynch-wagons, but provided adequate reasoning for both.
-Had hard stances on both wagons.
-Generated a ton of discussion throughout the game, almost all (if not all) of which seems town-motivated.
-Even though a lot of the discussion seemed to be lead as an IC, stances and opinions could be found in the posts.
-Looks beyond the surface and avoids accepting the general concensus and easy wagons.
-The Phok lynch can be mostly attributed to Nacho (and Bert).
-Unlikely Nacho would have needed to bus Phok at this point (flashwagon on Titus was available).
-Few, if any, logical disconnections in arguments.

-AtE/brashness at Day 2's start.
-Possibility for a bus on the partner to solidy a townread.

[Brian Skies]

The Shiidaji Wall-Post

102, 108

First appearance and catch-up post. I felt 108 was pretty genuine. I could clearly see the thought processes as I followed along through the game. A lot of the thoughts expressed in this post match mine.

109

Great point regarding the M-M gambit even though Verbs and I kind of ran away with it.

118

I like this post. Attacks Verbs because he sees a logical disconnection. Also tells notscience and me to do something useful with our votes.

119

Attacks the M-M gambit himself with the perfect approach. M-M ruins it by either not being active or using the gambit properly.

132

More concern about notscience's vote. The reaction was good though. I like how Shii questions Nacho's townread on Titus. The logic against Verbs seems good. Although I'm pretty sure Shii gets hung-up on this later on.

133

Shii gets hung-up on how quantified the logic in the post is. JKM later jumps on this, but I don't think his scumminess and this point are related.

154

I'm assuming a lot of people got a townread off of this post. In hindsight, I don't like this post. It gives me bad vibes.

226

I like the reaction to notscience. Gets a townish vibe on Titus based on Titus' reactions to notscience saying she was coaching me. Titus' ask for a claim nullifies this a bit. Points out that he doesn't agree with JKM's argument against Verbs, even though it leads to the same result. Gaiden starts to ping his radar. Pushes the Verbs wagon some more. Gets a townread on me. I didn't comment on it before, but this is the second post that Shii directly asks for opinions from Nacho and me. This time it regards Gaiden and notscience. I would like it if Shii can elaborate what he was thinking about those slots at this time.

275

Says hes getting townvibes from Titus (which I can see). Agrees with most of my stances (I'm assuming Shii and I have been on a pretty good wavelength up to this point). I can't say he was buddying me because his prior posts and reads point to my reads (especially Gaiden). I like the logic regarding mostly everything else in this post. Wait, your reads match-up closely with Phok's? Didn't that seem a little odd to you? What about his read on notscience?

276

I liked this post, but the quote placement seemed misleading. I like the push on notscience and the reaction.

289

Really? What changed your read on notscience between 226 and now?

291, 293

I liked the interactions here between Shii and notscience.

402

Deadline day. Shiidaji appears! Says he needs to read up.

436

Shii doesn't catch-up in time. Expresses earliest concerns about notscience in this post (see post 307 where Nacho loses faith). Shows some confidence in the lynch based on Phok only reacting to the vote on him.

439

Can you explain the logic behind the scumteams for me?

470

Vote and logic is consistent with 439. Shows more concern for notscience (consistent with Day 1).

475

The logic here shows a pretty good disconnection between Gaiden and Verbs (and why Shii thinks the two cannot be linked). It also shows why notscience seems fishy in 248.

478

Reinforces the notscience suspicion (dammit Shii, why did I tunnel so hard?). I don't understand the part about post 178 though. Elaborate, please. But I really like the part about post 251.

484

Oh hey! Here's the distancing I was worried about in my first wall! I should have done this wall first.

485

More uneasiness regarding notscience.

488, 492

I'm pretty sure I missed the whole point of these posts the first time around. I'm understanding why Shii didn't jump on the Flammus wagon from 492.

494

I like Shii's reaction to notscience. Notscience's reaction, not so much.

500

This is consistent with the way Shii has been reading notscience all game.

519

Hahahahahaha! Also, I do find it weird that notscience was so ready to lynch Phok after buddying the slot for most of the game.

534

I like this post.

576

Stands by his stance of Flammus being town. This is pretty consistent with previous posts.

627

I like this. I was being pretty scummy (and I figured I was going to be when I made some of those posts).

630

I'm liking Shii's reasoning. It is consistent even though I am clearly not comprehending anything Shii has been saying. This may explain why Shii ignores the discussion later on.
*I'm wondering if Titus hammered before Shii could come back from hiking in time to post. Would it have made a difference?

694-696

Why Nacho? Also, the notscience suspicion has been consistent since the end of Day 1 now.

Spoiler:

Day 3 Concerns
I'm still finding that Nacho vote weird. But other than that, Day 3 activity has been pretty consistent.

Things to Consider:
-Was not on either lynch-wagon.
-Had hard stance against Flammus wagon (not sure but I think the Phok wagon too).
-Consistent reads.
-Reads are not easily influenced by other players or situations.
-Biased - I see a lot of things Shii sees and I feel like we are on a pretty good wavelength (despite my Day 2 foul up).

-Help me out here, I'm having trouble thinking of scum-motivation (totally wasn't expecting this).

[Brian Skies]

The Small Post

These wall-posts are posted in the order I did them. So I highly encourage reading them in that order. If you are having trouble following or just don't care, you can skip to the spoilers. There should be questions and concerns in the wall-posts though.

Also, the wall-posts were originally generated in notepad. So if there are mistakes, typos, or unclear statements, please let me know. I encourage discussion.

@Titus: Since you are the only confirmed town, I am looking most forward to your opinions.

Meanwhile:

[Brian Skies]

Acknowledged Brian.

Now that I know you're town this will be interesting to work through this.

I know our main objective is to find scum. Yet, if we can clear one as town, then the scum cannot win. Three towns versus one scum is a recipe for disaster given the size of the game. I'll put up my own (smaller) walls and respond to some concerns I see in the posts. For instance, you seem to think logic = town. Not always so. Nacho has to deserve some scum points for how the Flammus lynch went down.

The bold part makes me laugh considering all your end of Day 1 scum reads ended up being town.

But yes. I do give Nacho some scum points. As for Shii, he floats back to the top of my super-awesome town vibes list. If you think otherwise, that's cool too.

[Brian Skies]

I don't know how to do post tags (T.T).

And I don't want to vote yet because I want Titus' thoughts on what we do if, for whatever reason, notscience flips town.

[Brian Skies]

Then help us out and find the scum so we don't mess up LYLO.

[Brian Skies]

I haven't.

But I'm concerned about Nacho and Shii, mostly Nacho though. I'm waiting for Titus to confirm my suspicions. If you think there is anything weird about either of them, now is the time to bring it up.

Also, Shii seems to be concerned about Nacho for some reason.

[Brian Skies]

You aren't conf-scum just because the game makes it look that way. If you're town, defend yourself and either find us a good town for the townblock or find us the scum.

[Brian Skies]

Looool

I made a typo. I've already read everything you've said.

[Brian Skies]

Nacho, if Bert townreads you then dies I see literally 0 reason to kill him from you. Why? Because I personally believe hydrae partners are really good at reading each other (although I admittedly can't read Bert as well as say DP or TIP), so I'm not really plussed about it.

This is one of the reasons why I think Nacho is suspicious. Nacho already got the townread from Bert, so I don't see any reason scum-Nacho would have to keep Bert around.

[Brian Skies]

Not to mention, Nacho let me tunnel on Flammus without taking Shii's argument into account on Day 2. I understand I baited Nacho into that tunnel, but still. Nacho is usually more aware than that.

[Brian Skies]

And yes, I do find Shii's Day 3 a little weird. But I need Shii to come in and explain his thoughts. I can't just be like, "Shii makes no sense, must be scum."

[Brian Skies]

Oh my god ns. I'm currently WIFOM'ing myself. I'm gonna take a break from this for a bit.

[Brian Skies]

@Nacho: How confident are you with your vote?

[Brian Skies]

Been busy Brian but I like how the votes are distributed right now. I am going to unvote to allow time for rev7ew but I can be certain Shii is not likely scum.

VOTE: unvote

Yeah, I really like the vote distribution. I was really hoping you'd unvote so we don't get ninja'ed by one of these three.

And the thing about Shii is that I've been heavily townreading him all game. I've been on almost the same exact wavelength as him and understand how he comes to a lot of his conclusions (as I reach them too even without reading what he's saying). To me, he just seems to have better foresight and finds these wavelengths before I do. So, I don't understand if you know how I would feel if Shii actually ended up being scum.

And as far as Nacho is concerned, I've become increasingly wary of him/her (sorry, I just don't know your gender) based on my wall-posts.

The thing that bugs me most about Nacho and Shii is how Day 3 has been underway. It's making it increasingly difficult to sort them.

But yeah, I'm currently leaning Shii for most town.

[Brian Skies]

If it's been difficult sorting them how is shii your most town rofl

Have you read my walls? Also, Nacho was acting suspicious on Day 2 (AtE, tunneled attack on Flammus, mostly ignored Shii's case on ns) and is doing the same thing on Day 3.

Shii is suspicious for suspecting you most of day 1 and day 2 and suddenly changing his reads. But unlike Nacho, I have been on similar wavelengths with Shii for most of the game (and if Shii ends up being scum...then, well, fuck me).

You, at least, are consistent, and that bodes well for you.

Where am I?

Where do you want to be?

[Brian Skies]

I'm leaning towards lynching Nachomamma at this point.

Meanwhile, I'd like the three remaining players to make an educated guess as to one of you being town and the other being scum.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one feeling this way. Nacho's vote on ns just doesn't sit right with me. It's like she's sure ns is guilty or something. There's a serious lack of reasoning and she hasn't even given ns a chance to defend himself.

[Brian Skies]

Also, Titus, how do you feel about the interactions between Nacho and Bert at the end of Day 1? I know this is WIFOM, but what if Nacho didn't want to be investigated by a possible jailkeeper? It would have been useful because we could at least have had a clear on her.

[Brian Skies]

Nachomamma was all to ready to lynch me today and it took Brian's claim to clear me.

Verbs already cleared you when he claimed.

[Brian Skies]

And it's funny that you suspect me for being "too sure", Brian. It's one of the main reasons I'm so uneasy with ns. He's writing me off as town with no real process in doing so; yesterday, he was paranoid of me because I'm tricky. Today, he's absolutely sure that I'm town because of the N1 nightkill? That doesn't make sense, considering the N1 nightkill happened before he got paranoid, but instead he pretends like that never happened. It makes more sense for scum NS to go after me tomorrow as opposed to today; if I can get mislynched without my blood on his hands, he has a chance of making it through tomorrow against Shii. If he tries to mislynch me today and we get involved in a 1v1, he won't escape. Shii won't trap him in the same way.

Actually, I read your wall post this morning but I didn't get a chance to reply until now. I'm pretty confident that you are town. Tunneling isn't really indicative of alignment (as townies are just as likely if not more likely to do it). I was just waiting for you responses and I started WIFOM'ing myself.

I liked your responses. And even if, for whatever reason, you are scum, there is no way I'm going to lynch you today because you aren't the best lynch for me.

[Brian Skies]

Meh. Same difference. It took your slot to clear me.

Verbs cleared you when he claimed tracker. Regardless of his alignment, you were cleared Day 2 (either he's tracker which makes his statement true, or he's scum). There was no doubt in you being clear.

[Brian Skies]

I feel like I'm getting baited into making a serious mistake.

VOTE: notscience

[Brian Skies]

For once, I actually upon review would prefer NS. Since we both feel that Shii is town, can we lynch Nacho today and then do NS tomorrow?

Why do you prefer NS? I don't think NS would stand a chance against either Shii or Nacho. Have you seen my walls?

[Brian Skies]

Because I get the feeling Nacho might be town. And if I'm right, and notscience is town, then I have a feeling I'll get screwed by scum-Shii (which I doubt).

Either way, based on what I've seen, I still think notscience is the best lynch. At this point, I'd rather pull what I feel is the best lynch because I don't know which one is the right lynch.

[Brian Skies]

Either way, there are still three other townies, my vote can be bypassed.

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE: notscience

As I read up.

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE: notscience

Because I fail at life.

[Brian Skies]

Actually, instead of reading, how confident are you that Nacho is scum? What do you propose us do if Nacho flips town? Do you think Shii is worthy of a townblock at this point?

[Brian Skies]

Nacho, do you have any reasonable doubt of Shii being town?

[Brian Skies]

@ Nacho : I want your answer, not what you think I want to hear.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: notscience

[Brian Skies]

@Nacho: How do you feel about Day 3 Shii? Emphasis on 695, 696, end of 729.

[Brian Skies]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous that your breadcrumbs were better than mine (mostly because mine sucked and all it did was give me a townread on Shii).

[Brian Skies]

We still have 5 days, huh? The recent surge of activity got me excited. I'm calm now. Carry on Titus.

UNVOTE

[Brian Skies]

I like that logic, Titus. I'm still down to townblock Shii if we need to. I'm leaning towards lynching Nacho now for some reason.

[Brian Skies]

I still want to hear Shii's thoughts on most of this though.

[Brian Skies]

@Mod: You're the best.

Still waiting on Shii's thoughts and stuff.

[Brian Skies]

If you want to know why I said that, it's because Shii and Nacho are just way better townreads for me at this point. Personally, I'd find it hard to believe you over either of my stronger townreads because they've just had better games so far. But you're welcome to convince me now to townblock you. I'm open to being wrong.

But if you don't bring logic and evidence and stuff, it'll never happen (I don't buy "cus my meta and stuff"). I'm only one vote, so I can be bypassed (convincing the other three is another strategy).

The other option is convincing me that Shii or Nacho is the better lynch. I do like making the better lynch.

[Brian Skies]

Why would me standing up to them matter if you really thought I was scum?

If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to get you lynched several times already. Titus and Shii don't want you lynched. I want to know why.

I'm not familiar with meta and I fully understand that towns can seem less town than scum (cough* Nacho cough*). This is why I'm waiting for Shii's opinions. We also have a tendency to hammer shit when Shii isn't around.

I did notice it. Your defense is a lot of wifom. Also, I think your rapid shift was an attempt to get Bert to label you as town, rather than actually being town. Bert should have been able to read you without a massive shift in gameplay.

Brian, please lynch Nacho with me today. If we're wrong, I'll lynch NS with you/for you tomorrow.

Sure, as soon as Shii comes in and gives me content. We still have a few days left, so I'm willing to wait.

[Brian Skies]

I'm obviously not lynching you because you can't "hold your own".

That statement is directed at me, Nacho.

[Brian Skies]

I'd still rather lynch notscience today. Nacho is a tunneler, and I don't find tunneling to be alignment indicative (unless it's clearly scum-motivated).

If we're wrong, we can always lynch Nacho/Shii tomorrow.

[Brian Skies]

Also, I just get the feeling notscience will flip scum.

[Brian Skies]

Because I have Nacho and Shii as much stronger townreads than you. If you flip scum, game over. If you are town, I can reanalyze.

If I leave you in the game and you are town, I'd find it extremely difficult to not lynch you in LYLO.

[Brian Skies]

And if Shii gets replaced now, I will never know why he suspected Nacho.

[Brian Skies]

I'm actually dreading a replacement coming in 1 day before possible LYLO. I really really don't want a replacement coming in at this stage of the game.

[Brian Skies]

See post 809.

And confidence has nothing to do with it. I'm looking for the best lynch. And right now, you aren't even looking like the best lynch anymore, Shii is. And guess what? HE'S MY BEST FUCKING TOWNREAD RIGHT NOW!

So, since I can't read you worth a damn, and I don't think I can get a good case between you and Nacho going, I'm just going to vote Shii in case he doesn't come back.

VOTE: Shii

Titus, let me know how you feel about the slots and who you want to lynch. I'm still willing to sheep you if you think I'm wrong. But replacements are no bueno.

[Brian Skies]

I think I'm just gonna sit here and second-guess myself until Titus decides to talk to me.

[Brian Skies]

Actually, no. I'm gonna be up for a while, so Titus can make the decision on who to lynch.

UNVOTE: Shii

[Brian Skies]

Yayyyyyyyyyy!!!! <3 <3 <3

[Brian Skies]

We're on a really tight rope. But I'm here even though I'm trying to get reading done and stuff. I'm gonna be up for a while so it's cool.

[Brian Skies]

Nobody has really responded to my walls, so I don't really care much about them anymore. I'm thinking mafiascum players just have a natural aversion to them.

[Brian Skies]

And besides, your wall is just a giant cluster of why I think you're probably town.

[Brian Skies]

From what I've heard, Nacho is a deathtunneler and doesn't slip often as scum. It's not so much I think he's town, I just don't see him as being scum right now.

If you read the notscience wall, you will see a lot of the reasons I see ns to be more likely to be scum. But funnily enough, there's still a good chance notscience is town because of the way he plays. It's annoying, mostly because their distinct playstyles make it so.

[Brian Skies]

Unvote, Vote: phokdapolees

Why, and why are you now "completely reassured" about notscience?

Brian - Do you think phok would say the latter about a buddy? As in, would he be the type to downplay someone reading his buddy as town whereas he'd normally just ask the first bit?

I'm pretty sure this is taken out of context. If I remember correctly, Nacho was totally suspicious of notscience for a while before suddenly deciding notscience was probably town and attacked Phok.

[Brian Skies]

Holy shit! I just realized something. I have the game chronology all messed up.

[Brian Skies]

Are you still here?

I just realized what Titus was saying. Right after Bert appeared, Nacho backed off of notscience and went right after Phok.

How do you feel about Nacho not wanting to be protected at the end of Day 1 and the AtE at the beginning of Day 2?

[Brian Skies]

Also, do you think Nacho is the type of person to hard bus? I'm not familiar with meta at all.

[Brian Skies]

As for Phok, I don't know. It can be argued either way because of distancing.

But I'm pretty sure Phok tried to put notscience down as scum for shit reasoning. So I guess that's something?

[Brian Skies]

As for the AtE: "OMG WHO KILLED BERT"

It was overplayed in my opinion. And I'll take a quick peek at 729.

[Brian Skies]

oh that's not really the standard definition of AtE. It's alignment null considering I could totally see ScumNacho pulling that off with no qualms.

Loooool. Okay.


As for the bottom of 729: I can see it, but I don't know how much I want to put into it. It is pretty awkward for a scum player to declare a town read on an uncleared player right before MYLO/LYLO.

[Brian Skies]

Titus seemed to really want to lynch Nacho earlier, so I am taking that into account.