Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

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hi guys

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VOTE: BROseidon
YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO

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Mollie the game has been open nearly an hour and you haven't reached out to us. You're scum this time, aren't you?

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Mollie the game has been open nearly an hour and you haven't reached out to us. You're scum this time, aren't you?

I am reaching out right this second

Here we go again!

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ahhh damn

hopefully with varsoon here i'll be reading at faster than light

defend against onslaught!!!!

What do you mean bby you already can read faster than light!
You know, like analyzing whole TD's ISO within a minute.

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I am reaching out right this second

I'm not in the least mollified by this forced looking reach out.

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O/

(Dunno what that emoticon means)

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Eww sonic 06

Anyway Molliepop you could also tell me while you're here (in fact you used it next to my name)

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That wasn't GiF.

And no I'm not signing my posts.

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That wasn't GiF.

And no I'm not signing my posts.

why would we ask you to sign your posts. we never do that shit

colbert smilie goes right here.

and *gasp* you were...mollified?

I said I was not mollified.

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I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

If mollie and I figure out that each other are town then we will at turns buddy the hell out of each other and suffer from intense paranoia. It will be fun for all.

Hi Majiffy.

If I werer PGO I'd play it similarly to what Venmar is doing.

I agree that Tiphaine's reaction wasn't cool. Also think that Varsoon and MS both seem off. Nachopappa (whom I will call Bert for the most part) isn't looking very town to me atm. But, I gather he usually doesn't when he's town.

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Varsoon scum is looking more and more likely.

Not that I disagree with the TD wagon, mind you.

I agree about Varsoon and also have some unhappy thoughts about MS's posts so far, too. I'm not sure if GiF will concur when he catches up.

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holy shit a whole nother page.

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Varsoon scum is looking more and more likely.

Not that I disagree with the TD wagon, mind you.

I agree about Varsoon and also have some unhappy thoughts about MS's posts so far, too. I'm not sure if GiF will concur when he catches up.

Oh hey you posted what do you know.

Let's talk this one out, ffery. ...Like we always do.

This is going to be another one of those try to discuss in the middle of a shitstorm exercises isn't it?

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I'd ask what the motivation for that was, but hell if it even matters.

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I'm aware, but you could have gathered a wagon, effectively giving us day one wagon analysis without anyone being dead. Instead you did it this early, so the info we'd have gained from your role is GONE.

EBWOP

And ffery, might as well try, even if it is that day one all over again.

Ok so who first?

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TownMac, I think.

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TownMac, I think.

Agree so far.

Venmar town.

Thoughts about nickthename?

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The analysis about Mac re TD looks legit, and something not surface-level.
~sasha

Yeah that post I liked. The vote-change speed was kinda dizzying, but I tend to think relative vote-stickyness is scummy. It's a meta thing, though, not absolute. So, leaning town even though I didn't like the Mac vote itself.

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Gah, it figures. How many times has this happened to me? Over the weekend, things start? Silly bork; he should have learned his lesson last time! To say the least, that puts me a bit behind this game. Let's try not to get another 10 pages while I'm catching up, 'kay? Now with that said, it'll be a while--I have other things to attend to. So, that'll be it for now. Time for me to get to work. (Oh, gods. We're in for a very long game. No way to have me procrastinate

this

game! )

Bad news, Mastin. It started only a few hours ago.

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I didn't like the Mac vote itself.

And why is that?

Because I kinda think he's town.

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I think it's been only Majiffy and Ffery

Pedit

lolwut

Totally wrong. gif has posted, and so has mollie.

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TrustFund your turn to call one.

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I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

If mollie and I figure out that each other are town then we will at turns buddy the hell out of each other and suffer from intense paranoia. It will be fun for all.

Hi Majiffy.

If I werer PGO I'd play it similarly to what Venmar is doing.

I agree that Tiphaine's reaction wasn't cool. Also think that Varsoon and MS both seem off. Nachopappa (whom I will call Bert for the most part) isn't looking very town to me atm. But, I gather he usually doesn't when he's town.

almost want to call you town for this post

that might almost restore my faith in your ability to even recognize my town game.

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TrustFund your turn to call one.

Depends on the approach we're going to take. You thinking townbloc style, or just reads list bouncing? I mean syr is probably gonna come in later and start trolling, but i'll be srs bsns for now. Hmm.... How about AJ? I mean xenoblade was before I developed my supermetawhore self, so I never really ran it. Besides xenoblae, whatcha got?

I am looking for preliminary reads right now.

I have recollection of my Xeno I meta run. No other completed games besides Xeno I. I need more data to figure him out. Seeing what Nacho says about him and vice versa will probably help me figure out both of them.

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pedit: HOLY FUCK THAT WAGON TO FOR FUCKING EVER. SHE WAS CAUGHT FOR LIKE 2K POSTS.

It built up quickly though, it took forever to get hammered.

Not really true iirc. It plateaued several times and even dropped votes occasionally. Was hell on the rest of the scum team deciding when to jump on.

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Holy shit 6 moar pages already
Meh I'm just gonna ask fery what happened so far XD

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IOW though it was the main bandwagon for nearly all of day 1, it was not a fast wagon. Several players with every intention of voting me held off for quite a long while so the town bloc could be solidified, null reads clarified, and lots of opportunities for associations to happen.

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Wait am I talking to Cabd from Trust Fund right now? Because that would explain a lot.

You thought that was Syr?

dude.

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Ok let me explain this to you. When you're trying to garner an emotional reaction from someone; YOU WANT AN EMOTIONAL REACTION.

Mind you - either alignment can HAVE an emotional reaction; it's HOW they react that matters.

But if you push someone for an emotional reaction and they've got faces calm as a Hindu cow, that means that IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE CERTAIN THEY ARE FEELING PRESSURE: They're probably scum.

Town has no reason to avoid flipping out, at least not on a primal/reactionary/emotional level. They won't think to themselves "oh god, I had better not flip out!", they just FLIP OUT.

SCUM, on the other hand, will sit back and try to calm themselves down so they don't react negatively. THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. Thus a LACK of a reaction is a SCUM reaction. You're not looking for CALM townies. You're looking for CALM SCUM.

Soooo...what are your thoughts about FTL?

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I'm liking rach as town so far.

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Also during this game I will be counting how many s Mastin use in this game.

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He's way too willing to be helpful but I need to prod him more.


p-edit: to ffery.

Also the calm scum observation you made can't be universally applied. I'm not sure how well it applies to TD. Will have to do some research. I will say this doesn't look much like his Xeno 1 scum game, but he didn't come under that kind of sudden pressure ever at all in that game. By the time he was under vote pressure it was pretty close to endgame.

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@Ns: Did fery said AtE was a scumtell?

I didn't fully catch up yet but I'm getting a weed vibe from varsoon. Granted I haven't played with him for a while but it's still noted.
TD not sure ATM. I need to go back and read Xeno again.

P-Edit: wow harsh Molliepop

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IT TOOK 10 CLICKS

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weed vibe

I thought you were quitting that stuff, boyo.

Weird*

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I do realize of course that the Mollie head and the fery head are long time friends from another site, but want to be sure it is not being used as a cover for buddying.

If mollie and I figure out that each other are town then we will at turns buddy the hell out of each other and suffer from intense paranoia. It will be fun for all.

Hi Majiffy.

If I werer PGO I'd play it similarly to what Venmar is doing.

I agree that Tiphaine's reaction wasn't cool. Also think that Varsoon and MS both seem off. Nachopappa (whom I will call Bert for the most part) isn't looking very town to me atm. But, I gather he usually doesn't when he's town.

almost want to call you town for this post

that might almost restore my faith in your ability to even recognize my town game.

oh I am terrible and retarded why the fuck are talking to me aren't you afraid it might be catching or something

plus I don't have a completed game with you where you were town on this site. try again

Something you would do well to remember.

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@Ns: Did fery said AtE was a scumtell?

I didn't fully catch up yet but I'm getting a weed vibe from varsoon. Granted I haven't played with him for a while but it's still noted.
TD not sure ATM. I need to go back and read Xeno again.

P-Edit: wow harsh Molliepop

I did not say that. I have no idea where Ns would get the idea I had said something like that.

Ns? Explain please.

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@Ns: Did fery said AtE was a scumtell?

I didn't fully catch up yet but I'm getting a weed vibe from varsoon. Granted I haven't played with him for a while but it's still noted.
TD not sure ATM. I need to go back and read Xeno again.

P-Edit: wow harsh Molliepop

I did not say that. I have no idea where Ns would get the idea I had said something like that.

Ns? Explain please.

Never mind. saw the explanation.

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mollie what are your thoughts about Mac?

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mollie what are your thoughts about Mac?

liking him a lot. will probably be working with him. what do you think about venny?

@ ns

I think a pgo hits everyone who targets them if I am not mistaken.

well this game will be.... interesting (in the sense of the old Chinese curse May your life be interesting that is).....

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

No need to get worried Mollie just I am not 100% sold that both your slot and hers are town. Given time will be better at sorting it out. And part of that would be finding out if its just hey we know each other or that you are playing buddy buddy knowing peeps would think it too blatant to be buddying.

As Jiffy and Syr post that will help too

.



Pedit the PGO kills the doc and so does the scum who tries to kill I believe but not positive on that.

wat are you talking about majiffy has been doing most of the posting up until this point.

fery this is what I mean

Thank god somebody agrees with me about Mac. I'm not that confident I can read him tbh.

GiF is the one who says he thinks rach is town. I'll buy into it since he obviously feels he can read her.

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I'm leaning town on venmar but it's not meta based at all. Just feel like his posts show town motivation.

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{FTL, nhammen}
{Ghost, Mac, NS, Silence, Tiphane, Trust, Venmar}
{AJ, Andi, BRO, Desp, Mastin, Mamma, Pappa, nickthename, Rach, Skull, Muffin}

For record-keeping. Heading out for the night soon.

Ffery? Thoughts?

Assuming I'm reading it proplerly, I agree with it mostly.

you have an opinion on nhammen?

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Sasha, Majiffy said that post 81 and 91 didn't actually give reasons for his vote.

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and nhammen cited them as reasons for a FTL vote?

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Or for the TD fos. Majiffy is saying no those aren't reasons for a TD fos.

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yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

Nearly all the SoS posts have been fery, Rach. What is it you are not hearing from me?

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yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

if you knew majiffy was doing most ofthe posting up until that point then why did you say you wanted to hear from him. and syrlacious isn't in a hydra with fery and fery has been doing most of the posting in her hydra. mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

Achievement Unlocked:

First Slip

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I can see how that would sound ambiguous lol trying again

I meant more from Syr and not just fery that make more sense?

I'm with GiF, not Syr. Syr is in the TrustFund hydra.

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yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

if you knew majiffy was doing most ofthe posting up until that point then why did you say you wanted to hear from him. and syrlacious isn't in a hydra with fery and fery has been doing most of the posting in her hydra. mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

that was me obviously

also y'all leave nacho to fery and I if he is scum he will sit in a corner sucking his thumb while rocking back and forth and silently wishing for death

Staaahp with this buddying Rach will catch on.

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And this is why I hate hydras.

mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

What is this supposed to mean?

I just realized we've played together before. We were in a newbie game together with BRO and Nacho, and you wrote a hilarious case about Fear's narcissism.

I'm fferyllt. Nice to see you again. Sorry I didn't recognize your name/av earlier.

/off topic

That was me.

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Arg. I generally hate being scum, and love being town, but for certain games...for certain games...I really,

really

hate

being town. When I'm town and I can lock onto something easily, BAM! Instant fun. When I'm town and just kinda feeling like a spectator, not a player...not so much. This game would have been so, SO much more fun as scum, as I'd be able to competently fake having reads, but nope! Stupid ol' town me is left here with almost nothing. :/

I DO have some townreads, and I DO have some

minor

scumreads, but nothing NEARLY as strong as it should be. >_<

Sorry that I suck.

Vote: zMuffinMan

.
My best guess at scum at this point. Nick's another candidate (albeit only just; I waffled for quite a while before settling on that), but that's about it as far as definitive scumreads go. Can't decide on TD or nhammen, both who were in my sights but who I can't lock down, but other than that, yeah, just random townreads.

What's the basis for your scum reads?

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fery

feryferyferyfery

I find venny's hostility weird.

I don't know venmar. Played for like a couple calendar days with him in the first xeno game. I'm agnostic at the moment. More data needed.

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Hey but GiF has him as town.

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fery

feryferyferyfery

I find venny's hostility weird.

I don't know venmar. Played for like a couple calendar days with him in the first xeno game. I'm agnostic at the moment. More data needed.

I thought you said that his posts looked town motivated

I did. And they have. You're saying the hostility is weird. And that's a tone thing that I don't have the meta to say "yeah weird" or "nah that's not out of the space where his town game lives."

You are throwing your weight around pretty hard the last hour or 2, and I'm not at all surprised you're getting pushback for it.

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And that's assuming that by "weird" you mean "scummy".

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Paranoia and trust.

Trust is earned.

Every game.

From scratch.

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Paranoia and trust.

Trust is earned.

Every game.

From scratch.

what are you talking about here

I'm talking about you telling people things like don't worry you can sort so and so trust your read.

It takes people varying lengths of time to get decent reads on someone, and even when you feel comfortable about their alignment, it's a further question mark whether to trust that their reads - today - in this game - are good. Patt of "good" is usually defined as "agrees with mine" or "makes sense to me".

You are expecting it to be baked into a game about 12 hours in with a bunch of players not having posted or having posted minimal amounts.

I get into cat-herding mode pretty easily so I know what you're doing. It's really early though and there's a lot more data to gather.

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Also notscience is an innocent child.

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While we wait, ffery, mastin meta, always this passive?

Not always, but not unheard of from the meta I have reviewed for other games. I'm not going to be hasty about trying to figure him out.

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I'm talking about you telling people things like don't worry you can sort so and so trust your read.

It takes people varying lengths of time to get decent reads on someone, and even when you feel comfortable about their alignment, it's a further question mark whether to trust that their reads - today - in this game - are good. Patt of "good" is usually defined as "agrees with mine" or "makes sense to me".

You are expecting it to be baked into a game about 12 hours in with a bunch of players not having posted or having posted minimal amounts.

I get into cat-herding mode pretty easily so I know what you're doing. It's really early though and there's a lot more data to gather.

hhhmmmm...I thought the only person I said that about was nacho.

I certainly don't want venny to trust my read on td if anything if I were to get paranoid at this point I would suspect those 2 doing a scum theatre gambit. I

would

like venny to look elsewhere too tho instead of focusing on just 1 player. the reason being cos I think venny has a kick-ass off the charts nose for scum he just sometimes gets distracted by shiny things. d2 in red wedding he had 3 of the scum team read, he was hitting it in xeno and knocking it out of the ballpark in reign of flames. his reasons for voting td don't make sense to me and just don't sound like town venny and yet I wanna say he is town.

also cabd I feel like need to give you some love so here it is <3<3<3<3<3

I think you said something similar about Mac, but maybe it was more "I don't trust anyone else's read on Mac" except mine.

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notscience is Innocent Child
Venmar is PGO

I see there's a wagon on TP. Someone give me a case while I read through?

I played a game with mastin (town), and I don't remember him being passive. But then again, my meta on him is unreliable since it was only one game. And I think he died early anyways.

Majiffy did some vote count analysis on that wagon. Iso B&B and you should be able to find it.

Re Mastin I have one completed game with him. He was scum in that game. It was a micro and 8 of the 9 players knew each other extremely well. Half the player list was townreading each other by page 5 or so. The scum team didn't have much room to hide. He came off confident sounding in the thread but I think the game was pretty nightmarish for the scum team.

He's not reminding me of that game at all.

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AJ town. I think GiF was ahead of me on that call.

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idk man. The last time I read your "logics" it made me facepalm a lot.

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Nacho next time you are itt what are your thoughts about BRO?

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Yeah, FTL is scum.

Good articulation, 10/10, nom'd for best play of the game.

Let me do my thing.

I'm glad that SoS defers to Nacho as the default town-voice here. Why not ask what everyone thinks of BRO?
I think the lack of text-walls from BRO is unsettling, but I'm usually used to more activity from him. BRO's contributions so far haven't pinged for me, but I'm skeptical of him.

-V

I'm refining two reads with that line of questionig. Kindly stay out of my light.

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And the votes I'm thinking are the potential scum-votes on the TD wagon are Muffin, Mac, Ghost (++ to chances if Macscum), TF).

Are you done thinking yet?

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We are GiF and fferyllt.

TrustFund is Cabd and Syr

FTL is metal sonic and Varsoon

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NickTheName, am I correct that you don't have a completed scum game at MS? Have you played a scum game on another site?

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NickTheName, am I correct that you don't have a completed scum game at MS? Have you played a scum game on another site?

nometa4you

I will posit a scary-good scum game and give you squinty-eyed stares for the rest of the game.

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Mac isn't a controversial read. Only you and TD are reading her as scum, and you're both wrong about it. If I need to go over why, I will later. Currently in the process of doing something else at the moment that requires much more of my attention.

As for FTL, the back-and-forth with the MS head is what gave me the town read, and again if I need to go into more detail, later.

...Ignores that I am also scumreading Mac.

The general ease with which people are handing out townreads is making me nervous, given that I abused the fuck out of that last game to coast to the win.

Now that I'm fully caught up, I would be down for wagoning Mac or Rach. I could easily want to wagon Mala depending on what she posts when she comes in.

VOTE: Mac

Everyone took meta from that game and used the shit out of it in their ongoings. This is just another ongoing.

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And nobody from the last game is going to be hyper-cognizant of their gameplay from last time and try to emulate it if they were town last time and scum this time.

Wait...

I am not seeing players replaying their previous town games so far. And there are quite a few players who weren't in the first Xeno game playing.

I'm not seeing players who were scum being all weird about that in this game. Except you. Maybe winning that game is the reason? I'm reluctant to ascribe your play so far to that, though.

I feel like you are kinda hyper-sensitive about Xeno 1 and don't look comfortable in this game at all so far.

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I am not seeing players replaying their previous town games so far.

Elaborate on this point.

I'm thinking about day 1 and I'm not seeing a lot of parallels in reactions to the negative utility PGO claim vs the first game's miller claim.

MS, Varsoon, Cabd, Ghostlin, Majiffy, and Nacho's 1 substantive post. None of them look like they are trying to reprise how they played early in Xeno 1.

You could argue that mollie is, but it just looks like her usual town game to me so far.

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Fery quick question. I read up to page 15 and I didn't see Mollie's usual town self.. Can you please explain that a bit more?

My baseline is probably different from yours. Mine is heavy on offsite games and relatively light on MS games. She's super confident about her reads, (and about her ability to read players who hadn't shown up yet), expects to be ignored/have a long uphill battle despite touting her record of reading them correctly, and is showing paranoia around the edges. There's more, but I don't want to hurt her feelings. :/

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I'm thinking about day 1 and I'm not seeing a lot of parallels in reactions to the negative utility PGO claim vs the first game's miller claim.

MS, Varsoon, Cabd, Ghostlin, Majiffy, and Nacho's 1 substantive post. None of them look like they are trying to reprise how they played early in Xeno 1.

1) You left out AJ and Mac.

2) First line is authentic, but second line is the second time I've caught a liar tell.

VOTE: SoS

Dude. Leaving out a few is not a liar tell. It's listing the players who have stood out based on my memory of their reactions to the PGO and the miller claims.

I don't remember at all how AJ and Mac reacted in the other game.

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Dude. Leaving out a few is not a liar tell. It's listing the players who have stood out based on my memory of their reactions to the PGO and the miller claims.

...read the next post.

Mala: http://liespotting.com/liespotting-basics/words/

Still not a lie.

BTW our vote isn't RVS and hasn't been for a while.

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mollie,

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I'd rather replace out and let you continue mollie if that's acceptable.

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Mala it is totally town mollie.

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not that particular post because majiffy, but the mollie I've been interacting with is town mollie.

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Andrius, let's talk when you have a chance.

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Why is consistency town-motivated? Also, in the second quote of his you've posted, what is the town-motivation of stating theory that is wrong (his part about wagon-speed being null is just outright wrong).

Consistency betrays earnestness which I find is difficult for scum to fake. It also makes the progression of his read transparent.

The second question is pretty loaded. What makes wagon speed alignment indicative?

What kind of consistency are you talking about here, desp?

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Oh God... now the issue with Notscience and Rach living together...

You are mixing up Nobody Special with notscience.

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@895Be careful mollie, if you keep grasping at straws that hard, you'll break them, and then you won't be able to keep drinking whatever hard liquor you were drinking when you made that post. Can yall like talk about reads before the end of day one? Is there some reason why have to wait for the first night to talk?

Because mollie's day 1 reads are usually better than Majiffy's. There's no sense amalgamating them until Majiffy has cardflips and associations to work with.

Majiffy's voting as scum usually is a lot more manipulative than what I am seeing here. He kicked the wheels off the TD speedwagon. It's possible he'd do that for a scumbuddy, but he is not at all shy about bussing.

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I keep talking to you like you are town, Nick. I think my brain agrees with my gut.

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I keep talking to you like you are town, Nick. I think my brain agrees with my gut.

I think urdoinitwrong

If I am, I'll have to figure that out on my own. You know how I feel about your day 1 reads. Doesn't matter what I think your alignment is.

[Sound of Silence]

You know how I feel about your day 1 reads. Doesn't matter what I think your alignment is.

Buzzword Bingo. DragonballZ.

[Sound of Silence]

If I am, I'll have to figure that out on my own.

[Sound of Silence]

Mastin, could you go into a little more detail on your Andrius read? I think it might help me sort both of you.

[Sound of Silence]

FTL is very much in my scum pile, mala. I defer a little to GiF on reading Varsoon, but GiF also reads him as scum.

[Sound of Silence]

Similar in nature to my read on Malakittens, albeit less solid because it's not as backed by meta. I wrote the bit about Andy being a scumread before his megawall, because I didn't like his pre-wall posts at all. The wall itself (while being humorous) also was incredibly scummy to me, solidifying the read, but not being a basis of the read.The megawall opens up with a vote on nick; this is a classic scumbuddy-RVS move of voting-scumbuddy-for-the-heck-of-it and I KNOW that Andrius comes from a time period where scum do that. Said RVS-vote is for a bad reason, too; not knowing the player seems really forced. In fact, the entire tone of the post is really, REALLY forced. The vote on your slot, SoS, for instance. Then there's the faked reaction to notscience's reveal; that rant is about as faked as fakerage gets. Not to mention, entirely unnecessary, as others had pointed out the sub-optimal nature of the play AND in addition to that it is unnecessary to do because notscience is the type of player who ranting on will only encourage him to do it again. The bit about TD looks bad. Trying to get hydras to sign their posts, which I've found in my experience to be a bit of a scumtell unless the player in question has enough meta history with the hydra in question to justify it. (You know the type. A town player wanting to analyze their buddy who they have a perfect or near-perfect ability to meta-read, but said buddy is in a hydra where the heads post similarly. Then and ONLY then is it important to know or care who's posting. Andy most certainly was not this.)

I've meta dived Andy recently. I'm not sure how valid my conclusions from that dive are, but his wall does concern me. Your comments earlier, though not very detailed, dovetail somewhat with my own thoughts.

I kinda want to see what Nacho has to say. His only acknowledgement of that wall was to point out Andy didn't mention him. And that makes me wonder if he's seeing town-Andy. Also makes me wonder (more) about Nacho's alignment.

[Sound of Silence]

The Grand List of Achievements

1. Aj The Epic

2. Andrius

Late to the party:

Be the last person to make the first post

The Wall of Death:

Make a wall. A HUGE wall.

giffy:

Use an image file.

3. BeautyAndTheBeast (pirate mollie + Majiffy)

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra

4. BROseidon

5. Desperado

6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic)

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra.

7. Ghostlin

8. Mac

9. mastin2

10. Nachomamma8

11. Nachopappa/zman

12. nhammen/Malakittens

13. nickthename

14. notscience

I'm town, sup bro?:

Get alignment confirmed by mod

15. RachMarie

16. Skullduggery

17. Sound of Silence (fferyllt + GuyInFreezer)

Great Idea:

Be the first to think of the achievements.

First Slip:

Post outside of the hydra

Slipping from Slip:

Slip as an another alt account.

18. TiphaineDeath

19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana)

giffy:

Use an image file.

20. Venmar

Ice Breaker:

Be the first to claim.

21. zMuffinMan

Mastin's ":P" count:

26

[Sound of Silence]

Crap. Wrong draft.

Reads:

Town

notscience
BnB
Rach
Venmar
Trust Fund
TD
Ghostlin
Aj The Epic
Mac
Desperado
Bert/thezmon
zMuffinMan

Null

Nachomamma
nickthename - ffery leaning town
mastin2

Scum

Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic)
Andrius - GIF leaning null. That's because he's refusing to read that wall.
BROseidon
skullduggery - GIF leaning null. He apparently didn't even know that he posted yet.

Not Sorted

nhammen/mala - ffery slightly leaning town, GIF slightly leaning scum.

[Sound of Silence]

@notscience Mostly because he's reminding me of the town game I played with him so far.

[Sound of Silence]

FTL is very much in my scum pile, mala. I defer a little to GiF on reading Varsoon, but GiF also reads him as scum.

See I wanted you to bring it down on paper. You only mentioned his name twice. Gif saying he's got a weird vibe and the other was you agreeing with 'Jiffy. The fact is I still don't know why you're scum reading him other than GiF side. I know you normally call out people for scum-tells, but this game you haven't. Which amazes me to no end.

I'm surprised to read this and it actually bothers me because I don't think what you are saying matches all that well with how I play. My reads are usually body-of-work/motivation based and I sometimes miss objective tells that other people pick up on. I had an early scum read on FTL and I'm looking for reasons to change my mind as much as to solidify right now. It's mostly solidification going on so far.

[Sound of Silence]

The food tell was a joke and it was Syr.

I told him it wasn't a food tell because you didn't describe the creme brulee in exquisite detail.

[Sound of Silence]

Oh hai sasha. Thoughts about our reads list?

[Sound of Silence]

This list? Mostly okay with it, I'm with giffy about skull. Nhammen/mala slot is something I'd like to sort myself, with you there. I've heard several other people call bro scum but not your reasonings yet I think, unless I missed it in my skim. Why?

My reasons are mostly tone/motivation related. He sounded uncomfortable and like he's trying too hard to acknowledge while distancing himself from his role in the first xeno game in his early posts. And I feel like he's overreacted a little here and there, including his reaction to my FoS, which generated a spread-out multi-post no u.

[Sound of Silence]

Nacho, your thoughts on Mastin and Andy?

[Sound of Silence]

Not townreading Nacho atm.

[Sound of Silence]

Not townreading Nacho atm.

are you townreading rach?

GiF is.

We're not going to vote her based on what is currently in the thread, most likely.

How is Andy town?

Mastin looks like really, really lost town to me right now.

[Sound of Silence]

How is Andy town?

gut.

I'll have to trust you before I trust your gut. It's a multistep process, and it's probably faster to just do what I can to sort Andy for myself. When he posts again.

Mastin looks like really, really lost town to me right now.

he doesn't seem THAT lost.

I have a relatively small experiential metabase to draw on.

but you will need to draw the N2 NK for him because it's going to take a while for him to be awesome this game, probably.

That can probably be arranged . :/

[Sound of Silence]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

[Sound of Silence]

Andy

[Sound of Silence]

his scumreads suck

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

[Sound of Silence]

TOWN
muffin
venmar
nachomamma
AJ
Ghostlin
BRO
nhamm?
mala
mac (iirc)
thezmon
Desperado

nhamm is mala.

Maybe you are better at reading Nacho than I am so I will give you that one.

BRO?

mala?

MAYBESCUM
FTL
nickthename

These are pretty safe and noncontroversial. I'd respect you more if you put them in one pile or the other.

SCUM
SoundofSilence
Sashahydra
RACHMARIE
mastin?
B2B

These are mostly terrible.

[Sound of Silence]

O hai GiF!

[Sound of Silence]

Not townreading Nacho atm.

the fuck are you smoking

If he's town, I will eventually get there. I am not insta-townreading him this game. In fact, I haven't been able to insta-read him in a few recent games, as Nacho is well aware.

How is Andy town?

gut.

I'll have to trust you before I trust your gut. It's a multistep process, and it's probably faster to just do what I can to sort Andy for myself. When he posts again.

how much do you trust nacho

on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being no 10 being yes[/quote]

When I think he's town, I sometimes weigh his reads more heavily than my own, but it's contextual and it's player dependent. If he's town in this game, I'll probably weigh his opinion of you over my own due to the huge difference in experiential meta.

Right now, my trust level is not high and it's in part because we are disagreeing on a couple of players that I would expect to agree with town-Nacho about.

[Sound of Silence]

Andy, GiF's Achievement list was for his own amusement and he didn't intend to post it (at least not at that point in the game). He had it in drafts and accidentally posted it instead of our reads list. He noted that at the top of the next post (the reads list he actually intended to post originally).

[Sound of Silence]

Andy, GiF's Achievement list was for his own amusement and he didn't intend to post it (at least not at that point in the game). He had it in drafts and accidentally posted it instead of our reads list. He noted that at the top of the next post (the reads list he actually intended to post originally).

tell gif to stop wasting my fucking time

He's reading the thread.

I'd kinda like to figure out a way to interact productively with you if you're town. The derision doesn't do much for me.

[Sound of Silence]

If he's town, I will eventually get there. I am not insta-townreading him this game. In fact, I haven't been able to insta-read him in a few recent games, as Nacho is well aware.

he's town
move along

When I think he's town, I sometimes weigh his reads more heavily than my own, but it's contextual and it's player dependent. If he's town in this game, I'll probably weigh his opinion of you over my own due to the huge difference in experiential meta.

Right now, my trust level is not high and it's in part because we are disagreeing on a couple of players that I would expect to agree with town-Nacho about

this is not a number 1-10
insert another quarter
and try again

No it's not a number. It's something more meaningful. It's my thought process.

p-edit. Ok.

[Sound of Silence]

You get what you get, Sasha.

[Sound of Silence]

Doesn't matter who wrote that list. This is how I'm playing the game so dealwithit.gif

[Sound of Silence]

Yes, mala. And that was actually colin, SoS, so dealwithit.gif

Doesn't matter who wrote that list. This is how I'm playing the game so dealwithit.gif

youguysareallpretty.gif

It had to happen someday, didn't it?

[Sound of Silence]

15. RachMarie - that fence rides, doesn't it

Trust me. Scumrach is worse.

[Sound of Silence]

Now that we can talk about it, Andy's walls in this game tone-wise seem more like his walls in the perpetual lylo game than his early walls in the first Xeno game.

And Nacho calling that town kinda scares me.

[Sound of Silence]

And from some older scum games.

[Sound of Silence]

VOTE: Andy
♥

[Sound of Silence]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

[Sound of Silence]

I think a better question is why would a Doctor try to protect a claimed PGO in the first place? Just to see if he's faking it?

This actually happened in one of my first games at MS. GiF, Majiffy and Varsoon also played that game.

[Sound of Silence]

especially because GiF always buddies me regardless of his alignment.

So what does this tell you?

[Sound of Silence]

FTR that wasn't fery.
I found you commenting on me not buddying you anymore was quite interesting, so I asked you about it.
Instead, all I found is... magical stance change.

The post I quoted from states that me not buddying you is alignment-null and just gives you and headache for me not doing so, which is why it caught my attention. And now you're trying to incriminate me by implying that only town-GIF do so.

Added to that, you're not even thinking about the possibility that maybe

your play

is what makes me hold back from that "buddying" (or simply, "omg he's town dude")

"it could go either way"? If you're talking about hedging, fuck yeah I'm gonna hedge. You're not the Varsoon I once knew anymore. You've changed. Hell, I still don't know what to make of your play so far. You've turned from being snarky ol' Varsoon to pretty much abusive and aggressive. I don't see any Varsoon^TM crazy-reaction testing, no Varsoon-wall, etc.

Granted, there ARE some similarities I'm seeing, such as despising metaplay. Your early posts (such as post 53) are actually classic town-Varsoon play.
However, your later posts, especially post 1111, is just... idk. It's nothing like town-Varsoon I've seen in past 3 games. Your language got abusive very quick. Also I remember how town-you dealt with the pressure. Remember Newb 1339? You even fucking embraced the pressure on you there. Now look what you degraded to. You're acting like you're in shit ton of pressure even though in reality there's not much pressure on you and some ppl started to put you down as "omg vig this."

So TL;DR is this. Your early play reminds me of town-Varsoon, but your later play and your abusive tone does not.

I know you despise metaplay, but I'll have to read C&H mafia to see if your current play is just a simple metachange or scumplay.
Not today, though. It's 3:37 AM in here and I already spent too much time talking about you with fery.

[Sound of Silence]

^
To Varsoon.

[Sound of Silence]

Ok. FTL is town.

[Sound of Silence]

SoS hasn’t really been posting

I find this post slightly amusing for we're the second most posted player in this game.

[Sound of Silence]

Sure thing.
(Even though I really gotta sleep soon. 4:15 am here )

[Sound of Silence]

And yes, SoS, I'm trying to engage with you; mostly because you're a hydra and I wanna know your thoughts.

I think GiF has gone to sleep.

What do you want to know?

p-edit nope he's still awake!

[Sound of Silence]

You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town. Majiffy's reads list looks town to me, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

[Sound of Silence]

Nah, this guy is town.
Trust me on this. I never read varsoon wrong before.

[Sound of Silence]

1141

[Sound of Silence]

1. That fery will answer.
2. Because I'm bugging her about her Mastin read!
3. Check where our vote is. Also this head needed to talk with Varsoon.

[Sound of Silence]

Apparently he scumslipped with that 5 scums in the game thingy.

[Sound of Silence]

Hence "Apparently"

[Sound of Silence]

That was to 1183

[Sound of Silence]

You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town.

Majiffy's reads list looks town to me

, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

this isn't exactly what you were saying earlier. you were kind of dissing his reads. what changed?

I don't agree with all his reads. That shouldn't be too difficult to figure out. However, they do look like town-Majiffy reads to me.

also you have mastin as a light town read, why aren't you defending that more? and what is it about him that makes you want to say it is having a bad hair day?

I'm wondering if I'm right and I want to continue to refine that read. And, I want the read challenged so I can see more evidence and gather more data. He seems really disconnected from the game and kind of in a bubble of self-referentiality. It doesn't look like the sort of stance that a scum player would take. It doesn't look like the sort of stance that scum-Mastin took in the one game I've played with him where he was scum.

andy why aren't you helping push the andy wagon?

He said he'd talk to me. I'm not going to push hard on his wagon while that hasn't happened.

What are your thoughts about the Mastin wagon?

[Sound of Silence]

I won't vote nick right now. I can guarantee that GiF won't vote FTL.

Mostly I want the Mastin wagon to just cool off and for people to do more scumhunting.

[Sound of Silence]

I'm here Syr.

I notice you didn't address my reasons for not thinking Mastin is scum.

[Sound of Silence]

Look at mollie's reasons while you are at it.

[Sound of Silence]

To Syr.

[Sound of Silence]

He's spent more time saying he's town than doing anything else.

As a sort of addendum to this, there is a cockload of AtE in his posts. Which is not itself scummy, but the sheer amount of it makes me snarl and want to slash him to ribbons.

PEDIT HERRO NOTSCIENCE

This post reminds me of my first game in this site where people tried to lynch someone based on exactly this.
Is it bad because it's an AtE and the sake of AtE?
Do you think his AtE is scum motivated? If so, why?

[Sound of Silence]

Also in that game he was town, and I WK'd the fuck out of him.

[Sound of Silence]

[Sound of Silence]

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

This? I'd agree with you, but mastin's slathered on the "bad hair day" thing thicker than the grease in Severus Snape's lanky mop of darkness, so forgive me if I take that with a barrel or two of salt.

You're kinda remindiing me of some of the backtalk we (mostly I) got for AtE in the paradox game.

So, I take it from your vote you think Andrius is a good alternative? On that, we do agree.

"Good alternative." doesn't really convey the difference between "not a good wagon" and "good wagon".

What else do you want to talk about?

[Sound of Silence]

You're kinda remindiing me of some of the backtalk we (mostly I) got for AtE in the paradox game.

To expand on this, I was feeling pretty horrible about screwing up, but was trying to soldier on, give town info that was certain to be useful down the road, refine reads, and strategize for future days, while fully expecting we'd get lynched.

I kept getting called out about AtE for the parts of my post that were motivated by the "feeling horrible" thing. Then I got mad and moved into the space of "I'm about to be dead conftown and you will fucking remember what I'm saying after that happens." Which was also labeled as AtE.

I feel like Mastin's in the earlier space of "I know I'm screwing things up but let me get my shit together and do something useful."

[Sound of Silence]

Oh yeah, completely forgot to reference mollie's mastin reasoning. IIRC it was "he's in my headspace, so he's probably town". Is that correct, mollie?

I didn't say he was probably town, but yeah generally I read someone who is thinking along the same lines as me as town. town moves in herds.

I get that you don't like the aTe thing but tbh that is a null tell for him I think. I think you ought to give him a day.

I have been scum with mastin before and he is usually a bit more careful, right now he seems very involved (someone said he felt disconnected and I whole-heartedly disagree) and trying to feel his way around a bunch of players who know each other. the reason I have him sus is cos he was nice to me, which in and of itself is not a good reason to lynch him on d1 over my top scumspect.

I said disconnected and it's because I come away from his posts with the impression that he's not directly addressing stuff people say to/about him, but just kinda reiterates his towniness and goes back to his reads and theories in a way that feels like it's happening in a vacuum. I've tried to engage him with neutral tone and that kinda works.

[Sound of Silence]

No one ever wants to talk to Majiffy

[Sound of Silence]

Talk to me about people that aren't main topics of conversation right now. Nacho, zMuffin, Ghostlin, AJ.

this would be a cool convo to have. mollie, you wanna talk to me about these people too?

Add nick and BRO in there for good measure.

Nacho's Andy read really worries me given what several of us know about Andy's scum play.

zMuffin looks town to me. I disagree with him on some stuff, but his posts come off pretty damn town-motivated and the trajectory of his reads is internally consistent so far.

Ghostlin looks like town-Ghostlin for the most part though there's a thing or two I associate with his town play that I'm not seeing quite yet.

AJ's early play reminds me of town-AJ from Xeno. Now that he's dug in and is starting to pursue reads that's actually something I don't remember from the earlier game but once again - internally consistent and reasonable trajectory. Also he was hammered into a hole in the first game and I don't think he ever had enough stance to effectively pursue his reads.

Nick is playing aggressively. I think he's a little more aggressive than he was in the newbie game that several of us played together, but that was a few months back so I'd expect his comfort with MS game style to be higher.

I think BRO is scum. I wrote up a short paragraph why in a reply to ghostlin at some ungodly hour of the morning.

[Sound of Silence]

zMuffin looks town to me. I disagree with him on some stuff, but his posts come off pretty damn town-motivated and the trajectory of his reads is internally consistent so far.

Can you elaborate a bit on the town motivation? Also, the timing of his "raaar TF is scum" I found highly suspect.

Looks like he's doing genuine scumhunting so far. Re the timing, the TD blow-up over Venmar's claim was a really shiny thing and it pulled in a bunch of players. I thought TD looked scummy initially, but didn't vote because a) I almost always take my time over votes and when I don't I usually wish I had and b) I wanted to watch the interactions unfold because data.

[Sound of Silence]

Yeah, I liked his early play too. Mollie, why do you hate AJ? Luigi can answer too.

Skull has made 3 posts; her last post was the one in which she voted Mastin; IIRC, not even for the "slip".

AJ is misrepping Skull by suggesting she is the "pushing scum" in regards to a question involving scum

continuing

to push the MastinSlip argument.

For a number of reasons, his position is demonstrably false.

I'll go back and look at this.

What did you think of Skull's post with the vote?

[Sound of Silence]

Which stuff?

You have TD as maybe scum and RachMarie as scum. Other than that, I think we're close to on the same page. Your stances on those two are consistent, but, I disagree. I'd have Rach at null atm. Our amalgamated read is somewhere around null-town because GiF is pretty confident she's town.

[Sound of Silence]

was*

I'm not as confident anymore, but her whining and shizz is null for her and I don't think she's being totally useless.

[Sound of Silence]

@SoS,

If the RM wagon goes nowhere, I'll join you on the BRO wagon, but yeah, I don't see her as town right now. Is RM just null for you because zero content?

As for TD, I'm actually not sure what to think of him atm. I have him as maybe-scum because I'm having a lot of trouble reading any of his posts as town and I see some stuff that makes me think scum. People keep saying his posts look town but I don't see it at all.

We moved our vote from BRO to Andy. If we change our minds about Andy we'll probably move back to BRO given the current lay of the game.

GiF tells me he just posted about Rach so I'll skip over that part.

[Sound of Silence]

I'm not as confident anymore, but her whining and shizz is null for her and I don't think she's being totally useless.

It put my hackles up mostly because she did the whole lurky whiny thing in a newbie game I was in recently. It took moving mountains to get her lynched for it too. Hence why I'm curious you thought she was town.

Is this Cabd or Syry

If it's Cabd, in newbie 1395, I was able to nail her down as scum very quickly. I'm not seeing that in this game. Something tells me that it's maybe because of her lack of posts, but until I see something pings from her, I'm content at leaving her as my townread.

[Sound of Silence]

Agree re Town Syr.

[Sound of Silence]

@Desp GiF says this post is an example of what he means by something useful. Will answer your other question separately.

well this game will be.... interesting (in the sense of the old Chinese curse May your life be interesting that is).....

Whether TD is scum or town I am not sure on, but I am leaning town cause that wagon hell Nacho has not even posted yet..... And a few others as well. 8 of 11 votes? Cmon guys n gals we need to examine those on his wagon duh.

No need to get worried Mollie just I am not 100% sold that both your slot and hers are town. Given time will be better at sorting it out. And part of that would be finding out if its just hey we know each other or that you are playing buddy buddy knowing peeps would think it too blatant to be buddying. As Jiffy and Syr post that will help too.



Pedit the PGO kills the doc and so does the scum who tries to kill I believe but not positive on that.

[Sound of Silence]

Links to a couple of his walls in the Perpetual Mylo game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5178895

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5186183

Compared to the game-significance of the posts he zeroed in on in the Xeno 1 game, I thought those walls were pretty lame. I as a town player with some well defined town and scum reads already, thought his reads didn't look good, and the rationales didn't either.

At the time, I hadn't done a meta dive on some prior scum games and didn't realize the significance of some of what I was seeing in that wall, but now I do. From a metadive perspective one of the things that stood out in his ISOs was how he used insults - to prod poor play as town, and simply to inflame tempers as scum.

[Sound of Silence]

I guess I'm just really not seeing it then. Breaking it down into 4 parts, 1) is not useful, 2) is potentially useful, but Rach never actually examined the wagon, 3) is not useful, and 4) is not useful.

What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.

And quoting that post shows just how useless Rach has been considering this:

ye gods

Sorry about that Mollie its more confusion than anything else. This game totally exploded faster than I thought it would. Going to look at some ISOs

FTR anyone who has ever played with me knows I get suspicious of fast wagons and quick lynches.

About time you got here Nacho

Wait Andy is playing too? where is he?

grumble grumble I will take some time to get a handle on this game

Could someone let me know who the heads of the hydrae are?

Other than B n B I know that one is Mollie and Jiffy.

The hydra question is so blatantly manufactured that it's honestly hard to believe. She's referred to all six of the heads in SOS/Trust Fund/BnB by name by the time she asks this question. No follow up on the TD wagon, no follow up on the ffery/mollie interactions.

Rach is scum, guys.

In the quoted post and also for example in 432, you can see that she is formulating reads. That's what GiF means as "useful".

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GiF also has some threads for Andy meta he asked me to post.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30280

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28572

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I guess I'm just really not seeing it then. Breaking it down into 4 parts, 1) is not useful, 2) is potentially useful, but Rach never actually examined the wagon, 3) is not useful, and 4) is not useful.

What did we actually learn about Rach's view of the game from this post? Nothing. "There are almost definitely scum on this bad wagon, we should look there!" is not content. "I'm not sold on both of you as town and you might be using your "hey we know each other" to blatantly buddy as scum" is not content, it's obfuscation.

And quoting that post shows just how useless Rach has been considering this:

ye gods

Sorry about that Mollie its more confusion than anything else. This game totally exploded faster than I thought it would. Going to look at some ISOs

FTR anyone who has ever played with me knows I get suspicious of fast wagons and quick lynches.

About time you got here Nacho

Wait Andy is playing too? where is he?

grumble grumble I will take some time to get a handle on this game

Could someone let me know who the heads of the hydrae are?

Other than B n B I know that one is Mollie and Jiffy.

The hydra question is so blatantly manufactured that it's honestly hard to believe. She's referred to all six of the heads in SOS/Trust Fund/BnB by name by the time she asks this question. No follow up on the TD wagon, no follow up on the ffery/mollie interactions.

Rach is scum, guys.

In the quoted post and also for example in 432, you can see that she is formulating reads. That's what GiF means as "useful".

Yeah but we're almost 1000 posts out from those two examples and we've still gotten nothing from her. I can't tell you a single thing that Rach actually believes.

about 1000 post in a really fast moving thread. Her rate of posting over time here is consistent with recent games I've played with her since her knee injury and stuff. I don't think that is alignment indicative.

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This is kinda weird because I'm not arguing that she's town. I'm arguing that she's pretty null atm and I need more time and more content to develop a decent read.

I'll be back in an hour or so and will look for questions addressed to me first thing.

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Holy shit. The links that SoS posted on Andy look similar to the walls here. brb checking new links and then moving onto Mastin.

Uh

"andy's walls here look like the scum meta SoS just linked"

"moving on to mastin"

???

how much of a fucking misrep could this be? there's a whole part of that sentence you've missed out which is pretty key to the fact that Mala is

not

just moving onto mastin.


VOTE: Trust Fund

iirc mollie didn't get what mala was saying there either.

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Holy shit. The links that SoS posted on Andy look similar to the walls here. brb checking new links and then moving onto Mastin.

Uh

"andy's walls here look like the scum meta SoS just linked"

"moving on to mastin"

???

how much of a fucking misrep could this be? there's a whole part of that sentence you've missed out which is pretty key to the fact that Mala is

not

just moving onto mastin.


VOTE: Trust Fund

iirc mollie didn't get what mala was saying there either.

Wrong. She didn't get my Andy read

Looking back I think you're right.

But.

Mac is still wrong about TF.

On a side note, I interpreted your post the same way TF did when I first read it and then figured out what you were saying.

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You're expecting too much from Rach

By the by, fery told me that syry wanted to talk with me.

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17. Sound of Silence (fferyllt + GuyInFreezer) Prolific posters

but

most likely town.

It is amusing that our quantity of posts has been described in such conflicting terms so far.

what does it even mean to be "prolific" BUT "most likely town"?

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Nacho's Andy read really worries me given what several of us know about Andy's scum play.

his opening is obviously different from Xenoblade and MyLo.
i'm not even more than normally confident Andy is town (haven't put my time in yet), but the cases I've skimmed so far aren't looking for the right things. The insult thing is a great aspect of his meta but you might be misinterpreting some of his insults.

Enlighten me.

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This needs a gif to go with it.

I'm already in that hydra dammit

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WHY NOT BISQUICK BORK

(I'm sleep deprived and will go to sleep after this post. Cya!)

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That was a serious request.

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Now about that readlist...

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Shooting NS is stupid. I think I read something discussing this in this thread. You don't waste bullets on Townies and the vig shot is not the new PL to avoid someone undesirable in LYLO. I've also read we should give credence to everything NS says because he's conf-Town. He's conf-Town, kids, not Jesus, and I think you've got the two confused slightly. In fact, that crap logic is like inception level scummy, and I might have to check who the fuck said that.

Wait ppl are still discussing if NS should be vigged?

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Wait wtf?
We vig a potential lynchbait not fucking conftown
Besides keep talking about a vig target will have a high chance actual vig slipping in the process (if there's one)

P-Edit: Oh ok.

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Andrius never aggressively defended himself that game, he pretended he was confident you were scum except was inconsistent in his appeals to me, constantly took irrelevant pot shots at our hydra, has already posted more in this game than he has in that one, never declared himself obvtown in that game like he has here (and he really is). He never even PUT A FUCKING VOTE DOWN in perpetual mylo or had consistent suspicions; he was too busy throwing mud all over the place he forgot he was supposed to have actual suspicions. This isn't perpetual MyLo. Scumreading you is pretty much the only parallel.

This is not the stuff I was looking at in the MYLO game except for the mud/suspicions ratio. It was more about the ill formed collection of posts from which he was drawing ill formed reads. And I think that is comparable to his initial wall in this game. Mollie put votes down in that game. I'm not surprised that as a hydra he didn't vote.

I figured out the insult thing based on older scum games and went back to MYLO later to see if it held. It did.

Can you explain what I'm missing re the purposefulness of his insults in this game?

The ragey explanation makes me wonder because I have the impression that most of the emotional content of his posts is a sort of over the top role play. I can imagine a sort of reality-based seed of anger over stuff like the out of the blue IC claim. Raging over it is pointless.

Can you make sense of his case for me/us being scum? I can't.

Also, would like your thoughts about my reasons for scum-BRO read. If you've commented on them I missed it.

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This is the basis of his paranoia and makes sense.

Except that molllie was around, making posts, and interacting with me off and on during the first few hours of the game. I townread B&B based first and foremost on mollie's cotributions and reactions to me because I read her better than I do Majiffy in the early game.

There is an implicit assumption here that Andie isn't able to differentiate Majiffy posts from MOllie posts. Do you think he can't?

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I'm still watching. I'm not sure BRO would feel uncomfortable wearing the Xenoblade recent win cloak as scum at all.

I said that might not be alignment indicative, though it's what first caught my attention in RVS. My situation isn't parallel, but I'm drawing some inferences about my comfort level vs his.

I'm more interested in what you think about this part of my reply to Ghostlin.

But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

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It's something that seems pretty much useless to lie about except to shuffle weak suspicion onto someone who he knows is never ever ever getting lynched.

Does he know that? I played a pretty weak game in Xeno 1, and that plus MYLO are our only completed games together.

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It's something that seems pretty much useless to lie about except to shuffle weak suspicion onto someone who he knows is never ever ever getting lynched.

Also SIGN YOUR GODDAMN POSTS is a pretty easy thing to hide misdirection behind. Mollie tried that repeatedly in the MYLO game and I think Andy also threw that into his wall.

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OK. It doesn't particularly bother me if it never happens, but hopefully you can understand why I'm going to ignore every argument about meta.

Yes I understand that you're willfully ignorant that two of the best meta-based scumhunters on the site are agreeing Andy is playing to his scum meta.

That doesn't make you any less dumb for being so.

This is soooo going to piss off Cabd.

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OK. It doesn't particularly bother me if it never happens, but hopefully you can understand why I'm going to ignore every argument about meta.

Yes I understand that you're willfully ignorant that two of the best meta-based scumhunters on the site are agreeing Andy is playing to his scum meta.

That doesn't make you any less dumb for being so.

This is soooo going to piss off Cabd.

It's okay I'm already over it. But yes, that's THREE meta-based players, not two.

While you are here, want to talk about Andy meta and Nacho's counter-arguments?

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I did a similar thing before (don't recall which game, might've been Borkmafia) and I found it wasn't useful, I still got lynched, and players just focused on the shit I had to say about them, rather than what I was talking about globally.

Still, I think it's important, and so I'm doing my own thing here.

-V

I remember you doing something like that in the borkgame. I think Remembrance/Icebox did, too.

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I'm more interested in what you think about this part of my reply to Ghostlin.

Andy sometimes is not on top of his shit. I'm more interested in waiting for him to come in with another post and people to start voting Skull, though.

Sorry for the confusion. That was about BRO.

OK. It doesn't particularly bother me if it never happens, but hopefully you can understand why I'm going to ignore every argument about meta.

Yes I understand that you're willfully ignorant that two of the best meta-based scumhunters on the site are agreeing Andy is playing to his scum meta.

That doesn't make you any less dumb for being so.

This is soooo going to piss off Cabd.

It's okay I'm already over it. But yes, that's THREE meta-based players, not two.

And three meta based players take a terrible tumble.
I think ffery will catch onto Andy-town first because she's the best meta-based player out of this group.
The question lies in who will fetch second place?

you can only go so far with meta. It's added backdrop and context about what's actually being posted in the game thread. Situations from game to game are seldom perfectly analogous.

I don't think any of the meta-based players in this game - including you - let meta considerations cloud the view of the actual game state.

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I fucking hate elaborate association analysis sans flips.

I can't think how many times the majority of the so called associations have turned out to be among town players.

There aren't many slouches in this player list. Scum associations will probably be pretty subtle.

And I want to point out that false associations buldermar and I laid down on day 1 of Xeno 1 helped cement two town mislynches on day 2 and 3 of that game.

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Hey Ghostlin, I don't think I heard back from you re those players you wanted our thoughts about.

Sup?

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@bnb,

It's debatable whether RM "stepped it up" - and it has nothing to do with painting everything she does as scummy. Are you ignoring the issues with her reads post or are you just dismissing it because ~reasons~?

My opposition to the Andrius lynch has nothing to do with whether or not there is support, but how strong my read on him is. I also have issues with the tail-end of the Andrius wagon (minus mac).

My read on RM is not gut-based.

Them being on the same team is a possibility I considered the very moment Andrius put his vote on RM (and actually played a factor in my gut read on him, because it's exactly what I thought he'd do if he was scum with RM). I'm not as sure of it now, or I'd be perfectly fine with voting Andrius (duh).

I'm not sure if it is two competing scum wagons. See last sentence of above paragraph.

There are 19 other players to sort. This hypothetical stuff about conditions under which you'd move your vote around between these two bandwagons isn't moving the game forward.

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Sorry for the confusion. That was about BRO.

I'm not sure that he would be less cautious as scum this game and more likely to miss things like that. What do you think of his push on you for a liar tell?

I feel like you're not really addressing the more substantive point there.

I thought it was pretty dumb. And I thought it was odd that he didn't push harder if he was serious about me dropping a liar tell.

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Unvote

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Syr's being all town and stuff. Cabd gets a free ride unless my town read on Syr goes sour. Until day 3, anyway.

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Hey Ghostlin, I don't think I heard back from you re those players you wanted our thoughts about.

Sup?

Still want them. Comfortable about your slot. I thought you had posted them and I missed them, but I guess not.

I posted them in 1158. How do they line up with your thoughts?

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but other people seem a bit hesitant to agree

I pretty strongly disagree with that read, actually.

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@SoS

What do you think of Mala

I asked that but didn't get an answer ;-;

Our reads are is in flux.

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I'm putting the vote back fery

VOTE: Andrius

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You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town. Majiffy's reads list looks town to me, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

BRO's the only one I didn't mention in my reads post, but I'm kind of on the same page. There's some warping of perceptions that are going on with his reads/posts that ring wrong to me. The words 'horribly inaccurate' spring to mind.

I understand why you're torn about Mastin from a certain perspective, but if you trust I'm town(ish), trust me on my Mastin read.

Alright. Yeah, TF rang the wrong bells with his interaction with Skull that I will continue to bore this game to fucking death with. There's getting votes and then there's letting players get away with crap they shouldn't.

GiF: I think Mala's aggressive, angry play seems to be coming from the perspective of hyper-defensiveness you can see in certain scum.

I can see where you're coming from. I understand your reads, and I think we're close enough to the same page I don't think we'd be shouting each other down.

Our mala read is evolving. So is our rach read.

nick is in our kinda town pile. I may be making a really really thin soup from the newbie game we played together a while back, but if I have enough data to cobble together a sketchy model I like to try, and like to see if it turns out to be useful.

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What are you drinking?

I have had too many margaritas and I'm going to hate myself tomorrow because tequila hangovers are the worst hangovers in the universe but right now I am in this oddly lucid state.

Also, I dunno man. If you are town then some of your reads are just horrible this time.

:/

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That was another hydra I'm in and I don't know why I was logged into it in this browser but it might have something to do with tequila.

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I don't guess this is such a great time to work through some of what made your reads look awful to me, but there's a convo between nacho and me about some of it. If you iso him later it shouldn't be too hard to find most of it.

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I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Nacho has asserted that my read of you is off. My read iinformed by meta but is mostly based on what you've posted in this thread, including your reads. Part of his argument focuses on why your reads make sense from your vantage point, based on what you knew/were able to discern from the thread and particularly from the hydra-to-hydra convos. And that suggests two approaches to me. 1) ascertain if he's right about how you saw the conversations and engagements and 2) learn if anything changes in your stance as a result of his arguments.

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The why part.

What do you do when nacho's reads don't line up with your own?

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Also,, the last time I played a game with scum-nacho, he read me as town in his first reads list of the game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4983878, on page 8 of a fast micro game.

Is that atypical for his scum game?

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seriously
what part of NACHO READS ME AS TOWN
do you not understand

The why part.

What do you do when nacho's reads don't line up with your own?

itt thread it is scummy to townread ffery

So, Nacho reading you as town means I should pull my head out of my butt and do the same, I guess?

What part of Nacho reading GiF/me as town in this game is less compelling than him reading you as town?

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I'm putting the vote back fery

VOTE: Andrius

And I'm taking it off again.

Unvote

[Sound of Silence]

I reread our drunken convo and don't feel like I was talking to scum. If GiF has a different impression tomorrow or whenever he's back, we'll hash it out somehow.