Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghostlin]

Here are my thoughts for the first six pages:

1) The entire argument about the PGO is dumb and you should all feel dumb. If it's scum motivated, we can determine this through Venmar's play and lynch him normal like. Otherwise you're feeding a possible attention whore gambit, which could be run as either alignment, Town as reaction-fishing, scum as a 'don't visit me, town Cops!'

It's kind of akin to claiming miller, only a gun is involved.

2) BRO's #79 makes no sense under a microscope. A miller and PGO are somewhat different roles and I don't consider the change-up to be alignment indicative.

3) TD is playing like a mule on crack, which seems to indicate he wants us to distract from the Ven vote by acting like someone gave him drugs. His idea of Ven not claiming seems dissonant to the Town wincon. Also, I'm getting a hate-on for notscience.

Vote: TD

[Ghostlin]

Hold the motherfucking phone

You don't run this shit Mac

You don't get to make these decisions

I'm pretty sure he gets to push whoever he wants. Why are you shutting that down?

[Ghostlin]

I'm not running away, I'm calling you all stupid, there's a difference.

[Ghostlin]

Because I don't like people deciding the lynch ahead o time

It's stupid

Especially in D1 with no conftown

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hyperbole

Click that link. It's a rhetorical device, primarily used often to intimidate or pressure one's possible scum suspect. Once you've understood what hyperbole is, maybe you can understand you're blowing something out of fucking proportion.

That said, if TD continues to play like this, he might get lynched on that merit alone, in which case, Mac is just telling the truth.

[Ghostlin]

(OOC: Whoa dude. I found that slightly offensive and I'm prone to call things fucking stupid. Could we not target players with something that's probably offensive to a fair amount of the subsection of this site?)

[Ghostlin]

Between all of you and the back porch, I'm not thrilled with my TD vote (as in, TD could be scum, but it's the kind of vote one posts on a wagon for early game scumminess).

However, I'm not sure I buy the FTL case and my other option just got mod confirmed innocent child. So right now I'm doing the sads.

Venmar is probably Town due to the sheer amount of attention whore play, but I for some reason am not a fan where he deconstructs the reason why scum responds to reaction tests the way they do, it discredits the PGO claim a bit, I feel. Also, his recent posting doesn't make me full of warm fuzzies.

Bread and Breakfast are probably town. The other hydras range in variants of null, and I've not gotten any better at reading a hydra. FTL seems town...ish?

I'm not sure if AJ's just town warming up into the role of the game, or if he's being 'helpful' without being Town. Examples of this are: 258, 279, and 341. His analysis in 247 was fine; I actually don't mind his vote on Nick, if it gives us more information.

AtE is not a scumtell, but generally a fucking bad idea. Also, 2's wagon in Xenosaga was not an easy wagon to pull off. I think whoever posted that needs to be smacked.

P-EDIT: HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, WHEN I WANTED MORE STUFF, THIS ISN'T QUITE WHAT I MEANT.

[Ghostlin]

Mastin's being passive, but he's being Town passive. The difference? He's not keeping his options open and is admitting he's clueless rather than hedging his bets on this or that wagon.

FTL's early posts read like every other game I've played with MS, and Varshoon actually seems muted and reasonable this game. Am I wrong is in this, and is that his scum meta (which I didn't get to see in the first Xeno game.)

SoS, BnB; why is AJ town? Maybe I'm piss poor at reading him, but he seems off. Like passively off to me.

I'm fairly secure at this point Muffin's town.

Where the fuck is Nacho?

[Ghostlin]

Also, Andrius. Get your butts in here, guys. We've got scum to hunt.

[Ghostlin]

I'm talking about you telling people things like don't worry you can sort so and so trust your read.

It takes people varying lengths of time to get decent reads on someone, and even when you feel comfortable about their alignment, it's a further question mark whether to trust that their reads - today - in this game - are good. Patt of "good" is usually defined as "agrees with mine" or "makes sense to me".

You are expecting it to be baked into a game about 12 hours in with a bunch of players not having posted or having posted minimal amounts.

I get into cat-herding mode pretty easily so I know what you're doing. It's really early though and there's a lot more data to gather.

hhhmmmm...I thought the only person I said that about was nacho.

I certainly don't want venny to trust my read on td if anything if I were to get paranoid at this point I would suspect those 2 doing a scum theatre gambit. I

would

like venny to look elsewhere too tho instead of focusing on just 1 player. the reason being cos I think venny has a kick-ass off the charts nose for scum he just sometimes gets distracted by shiny things. d2 in red wedding he had 3 of the scum team read, he was hitting it in xeno and knocking it out of the ballpark in reign of flames. his reasons for voting td don't make sense to me and just don't sound like town venny and yet I wanna say he is town.

also cabd I feel like need to give you some love so here it is <3<3<3<3<3

This is horrible because it gives me a headache. Is Venmar scum or town? Does Fulsade want to trust his gut or not? Who does fus-roh-dah think is scum? If I was gagged, tied behind my back and forced to read this post as the only window in the game, I'd think we weren't in a game at all, but in the 'complement the person above you's playstyle' thread in Mafia Discussion.

[Ghostlin]

Not as passionate a reaction as I had expected from TD.
I was expecting him to either get really pissed at me or to use the 'out' I gave him where he could explain off his earlier actions as ones made solely out of frustration.
Instead, it's this strange melding of the two, where he admits I've pushed him against me but still says I'm scum but not his highest pick.
Regardless, I feel like Scum would've had a more artificial answer, given what I gave TD to exploit in my 591.
So, for now,

You don't like the answer, but the answer isn't scummy because scum would of given you X? Okay...

yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

if you knew majiffy was doing most ofthe posting up until that point then why did you say you wanted to hear from him. and syrlacious isn't in a hydra with fery and fery has been doing most of the posting in her hydra. mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

Achievement Unlocked:

First Slip

Andrius is Town. Why? Because he's managed to sum up my exact thinking on NS's role claim in thread, right down to the point that I can no longer vote him because he is not scum. Literally would lynch NS if it wasn't so blantly against my wincon. He's managed to find almost all my scumtell buttons.

Mala concerns me because she wants to lynch Nachopappa for one post, and Nachopappa's being replaced. This isn't throwing the baby out with the bath water; this is putting the baby in the bathtub, loading into a bathtub launcher and launching it to the moon. It's nonsensical the logic here; there's not any body of work to really grade on here. Also, Mala's work is mostly fluff besides that bit of gleaning.

Unvote. Vote: Mala

Rachmarie's not a bad choice because she's reading as not sane as she was last game, and she was scum that game.

[Ghostlin]

^Both of those are me.

[Ghostlin]

not a bad choice for what? lynching? when you are saying she is not sane as last game and she was scum? how does that even make sense?

No. She's reading 'not sane'. As in insane, from what I've seen. And that was her early play Day 1.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Mala

[Ghostlin]

yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

if you knew majiffy was doing most ofthe posting up until that point then why did you say you wanted to hear from him. and syrlacious isn't in a hydra with fery and fery has been doing most of the posting in her hydra. mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

Achievement Unlocked:

First Slip

yeah I know Jiffy has been posting more. and yeah I am getting more of a towny feel now for B n B.

Still would like to hear more from Syr as well as fery though.


Someone said that a lurky Nacho is always a scum Nacho and I disagree I have seem him be a lurky loo when he was town as well as when he was scum, and I have seen him as both town and scum being fairly active. With him just depends on whats going on. So yeah you need a bit more than oh hes lurking he must be scum Nacho. Especially since when you look at his posting history he has not been posting much of anywhere. I know he had to borrow his GFs computer a while back, so maybe he still is having to borrow it not sure on that.

if you knew majiffy was doing most ofthe posting up until that point then why did you say you wanted to hear from him. and syrlacious isn't in a hydra with fery and fery has been doing most of the posting in her hydra. mebbe if you would stop posting in your scum qt you would know this.

Achievement Unlocked:

First Slip

Andrius is Town. Why? Because he's managed to sum up my exact thinking on NS's role claim in thread, right down to the point that I can no longer vote him because he is not scum. Literally would lynch NS if it wasn't so blantly against my wincon. He's managed to find almost all my scumtell buttons.

Mala concerns me because she wants to lynch Nachopappa for one post, and Nachopappa's being replaced.

This isn't throwing the baby out with the bath water; this is putting the baby in the bathtub, loading into a bathtub launcher and launching it to the moon. It's nonsensical the logic here; there's not any body of work to really grade on here. Also, Mala's work is mostly fluff besides that bit of gleaning.

Unvote. Vote: Mala

Rachmarie's not a bad choice because she's reading as not sane as she was last game, and she was scum that game.

So my next word needs super big letters.

MISREP

You fucken misrepped me to world's end, then to hell and then back.

I never said I wanted to lynch him. Do not put words in my mouth. I said I was scum reading him because that didn't look like town-Bert as he was well not around and when he's town he will post mountains and be more involved and he wasn't. So yes, for his one post I did scum read him, but I never said once I was going to "lynch" him. I think if I wanted a lynch on him I would have voted him.. Wouldn't I?

So, you play patty cake with your scumreads instead of lynching them? That's good to know.

[Ghostlin]

Because generally when I have a scum read, I want them dead. Now, mods for some silly reason don't give me the power to vote all my scum reads at once, most games.

[Ghostlin]

Also Ghostlin what was the point of the above quote in regards to SoS / Mollie?..

Whoops, mostly, although, I was going to comment it seemed kind of a stretch to me.

[Ghostlin]

Because generally when I have a scum read, I want them dead. Now, mods for some silly reason don't give me the power to vote all my scum reads at once, most games.

Good for you, but my head doesn't play like yours. If I have a read on a player I post it. If I scum read someone it's because they triggered gut or they are doing something I'm not used to seeing in their play so I call it out. Does not mean I want them dead.

Please do not put your own personal-how-I-play-meta onto me. We all play differently and not the same. We are not created equal.

You accused me of a misrep, remember? If it's because we don't fucking play the same, don't come after me.

[Ghostlin]

Because generally when I have a scum read, I want them dead. Now, mods for some silly reason don't give me the power to vote all my scum reads at once, most games.

Good for you, but my head doesn't play like yours. If I have a read on a player I post it. If I scum read someone it's because they triggered gut or they are doing something I'm not used to seeing in their play so I call it out. Does not mean I want them dead.

Please do not put your own personal-how-I-play-meta onto me. We all play differently and not the same. We are not created equal.

You accused me of a misrep, remember? If it's because we don't fucking play the same, don't come after me.

That's the thing.. You

did

misrep me. Whether or not it was intentional or accidental you did misrep me. Now you want me to back off? Hell fucking no.

Honestly, your reaction to the original post, even on a base scum level, was extreme. There was hardly nothing to scumtell.

That said, no, I don't play this game the same fucking way you do, and the hyper defensive shitty way you've decided to defend yourself doesn't read Town to me. You could of gone, 'what do you mean by this', or even harsher 'what the fuck are you talking about'. Instead you accuse me of maliciously misrepping you.

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: RACHMARIE

redemption. sweet, sweet redemption.

you are scum aren't you

Bed and Breakfast, why is Nacho scum for this vote? I, for one, consider that this vote is entirely possible considering the game play in Xeno 1.

[Ghostlin]

You don’t want to solidify reads? The eff?

I never said anything of the sort? At this point, all I have is behavior and things that are shaping me wrong, and if you do something bad enough to get my attention, I generally want to nuke it from orbit. I can also be your best friend if I think you're town and you're using your brain.

The context of this quote is mostly to say if I read you as scum, you're scum until something changes you otherwise; a change in play, confirmable, valid information; context of other flips making you unlikely to be scum; etc. At this juncture, I'm ready to go for anyone I see as scum, because there's not much difference in my jargon Day 1 as 'scum' and 'reading you as scum'.

I am interested why you tended to blow up my classic 'why aren't you voting for this person' defense (it's what I generally use for that) to 'I don't want to develop/solidify reads' defense. I tend to act on what I know Day 1. I didn't like TD's cracked out posts, so I voted him. He's not the best play now, because he's changed his behavior.

[Ghostlin]

Dear Nacho, Venmar, Desperado, Ghostlin, thezmon,

How much do you want notscience dead this very minute? (On a sliding scale of ANDY STAHP to )

-Andy

Nuke it from orbit.

[Ghostlin]

If you tell a lie often enough, does it become truth?

If you say that you're Town often enough, does that make you Town?

EVERYONE IN TOWN, WATCH THIS CLIP:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... -questions

COMPARE IT TO WHAT SKULL JUST DID. AND THEN CONSIDER THAT MALA JUST SAID SHE SUPPORTED THIS VOTE.

[Ghostlin]

Whoops. Trust Fund, not Mala. I still hate the support, so I will apologize to Mala and tell TF off.

[Ghostlin]

Scum on the Mastin wagon: Thank you, you're really making it deliciously easy to find you and lynch the fuck out of you later. Keep it up.

I think FTL is Town too. I get Varshoon's head space in 1141 on a personal level, and he's I think trying to...not be so in-obvious after his other play in the game he'd rather I not mention. Also, Muff is giving me good vibes for 1138, and not because he can read and get what I'm talking about.

(Also, Var, you don't have to give it all up. I developed weaponized ridicule to destroy my enemies.)

Everyone consider 1125 for a minute. I'm self-confessed bad at hydra reading (and perhaps bad at hydra), but think about the simplistic head space here: someone agrees with me, regardless of reasoning being poor, hence they must be Town. That's...not a town stance. That's not even a sensical one. Yeah, TF goes on the list.

P-EDIT: But TD, I like hating people to death...

[Ghostlin]

Ok. FTL is town.

Yeah, if Varshoon faked 1141, he's the best fucking actor I've ever seen and deserves to win this game.

[Ghostlin]

Ok. FTL is town.

Yeah, if Varshoon faked 1141, he's the best fucking actor I've ever seen and deserves to win this game.

[Ghostlin]

SoS hasn’t really been posting

I find this post slightly amusing for we're the second most posted player in this game.

Yeah, my problem with BRO, and I'm reluctant to call him scum because of it, but most observations/questions seem to not be coming from his fingers, if you get my drift. His question to me, for example, wasn't really on point.

[Ghostlin]

And yes, SoS, I'm trying to engage with you; mostly because you're a hydra and I wanna know your thoughts.

[Ghostlin]

I've been saying that about BRO for the entire game. Why are people just realising this now?

Sometimes it's not blatantly obvious unless it's smacking you in the face.

Thing is, I've dealt with really fucking dumb Town in these games, and people who are normally smart that are being dumb, and then scum who play dumb as part of their act to make it sound like they're making cogent points. I doubt Bro's number 1, unless I've completely misread every game I've been in with him so far. That leaves 2, which is much more possible than I'd like to admit; I've been accused of it, and I admit: sometimes you get in your own fucking way. Or 3. Occam's Razor leads me to 2 because there aren't alarm bells going off from his posting alone. Paranoia is leading me to 3, however.

[Ghostlin]

Sure thing.
(Even though I really gotta sleep soon. 4:15 am here )

This can wait, but I'd like a summary of thoughts on the following players: BRO, Mastin, BnB, TF and Mala.

[Ghostlin]

Look again I have Andy as leaning scum

Seriously Des what will you do

if

I flip town? Who will you look at then?

I admitted my reads suck, but it is early. A lot of the pages here really are more noise than signal which means it takes a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff duh.

I rely a lot on Meta especially if I have not played a bunch of games with someone, which is why I was asking for links so I can skim through and see if I can get a better handle on some of the other players.

You have him as leaning scum but then you ask for him to provide meta (that's already been provided)

So were you just not going to read those games or what? I took that to mean your interpretation was still open.

@bolded slipslipslipslip

But seriously if you flip town I'll do the same thing I did every other time I mislynched town--forget about it and keep looking for scum.

Going to tell you something honestly, Desp, and this is only because I want to get this deeply embedded in this site's meta: Scumslips are

bullshit.

At least 90% of the time they end up lynching a target that town doesn't intend because it's like driving a fucking automatic once one is 'found', everyone, including the scum, rides the slip.

I think Rach probably is scum, because she crapped up the thread Day 1 on the first Xenosaga, and she's crapping it up harder now, but this...isn't the reason why, and the fact you used scumslip is part of your reasoning is superfuckingbadhorrible and you should feel superfuckingbad horrible.

[4] mastin2 (Venmar, BROseidon, nickthename, Skullduggery): I just want to note this here for later. It's relevance I promise you will pay dividends to this town.

TF, my biggest problem with you eariler is you let Skull jump on the mastin lynch, and praised them for being probably the laziest scum hunting/trying to look town by asking 'questions' in 2013. God, I want to jump on a Skull lynch right now. Since I'm slightly iffy on Mala right now:

Unvote

Vote: Skullduggery

God, that's like smoking a cigarette.

HEY, NACHO. I GET YOU'RE A BIG DEAL AROUND THIS SITE, BUT YOU CAN ONLY GET AWAY WITH CRAP LIKE ASKING NS WHO'S SCUM SO MANY TIMES WITHOUT BOTHERING TO WORK AND READ THE THREAD BEFORE WE LYNCH YOUR ASS.

AND ANDRIUS, NOT SHOWING UP TO THE IMPORTANT MAFIA DATE OF PLAYING THIS GAME DOES NOT INSTILL CONFIDENCE IN ME ABOUT YOUR TOWN STATUS.

...sadly I would support either of these lynches for the above reasons right the hell now.

Shooting NS is stupid. I think I read something discussing this in this thread. You don't waste bullets on Townies and the vig shot is not the new PL to avoid someone undesirable in LYLO. I've also read we should give credence to everything NS says because he's conf-Town. He's conf-Town, kids, not Jesus, and I think you've got the two confused slightly. In fact, that crap logic is like inception level scummy, and I might have to check who the fuck said that.

...Oh, it's Mala. [/notsurprised]

Desp, you said you had AtE of horrific levels instance in C&H re: Varshoon? Mind linking me to that?

Reading Venmar's ISO gives me a woobbly sort of the feeling, like the kind where something's wrong. It might be the lazy mode, tho'.

[Ghostlin]

Ah, but what if, hypothetically, skull is actually scum. Doesn't that make mastin and trust scum as well, and perhaps muffinz?

Are you even trying? Mastin may be wrong on who's scum, but he just wrote "The History of Why I Am Town, vol 12." Pushing him at this point reads either desperation, or scum fear of backing down from a read.

TF I am meh about. I've posted the reasons why.

Muffin is town, I am fairly sure and is a horrible lynch at this point.

[Ghostlin]

You know that Rach connects herself to other scum obviously, right? Because... Cabd just gave 2 links of doing so, and apparently has more. Besides, there's always some connection, but the point is, Rach is scum.

Unless I read something wrong there are also examples that don't follow the trend you describe, which means that it's not even a trend.

And it's not limited to just Rach. Mastin's post reads like a deleted scene from A Beautiful Mind and I don't understand how that brand of scumhunting is useful D1.

Useful? Maybe not, but you can't duplicate that level of crazy. Like you can't really fake Varshoons 1141.

[Ghostlin]

Did read the C and H post you linked me to. It's not the same thing, although I understand the feeling you're talking about Des.

[Ghostlin]

That big post of mastins does not read nearly as town to me as it does to you grumpy cat.

just going to put it out there

i, for one, am glad that we didn't quicklynch skullduggery before mastin got his thoughts out.

In this post, Muff wins the thread. Although, the Skull wagon has increased by 50%. So she's still in very real danger.

[Ghostlin]

tl;dr

@ghostlin

who are you currently reading as town/scum?

In no particular order:

Town:

Muff, FTL, NS (duh), Des, Mastin, BnB, thezmon (gut, mostly, but he's posted mostly town)

Leaning Town, but not there yet:

Nacho: some of his later content dispells my earlier concerns, but not enough to show the utter commitment and town leadership he showed in Xeno 1. I won't say he's hedging his bets necessarily, but he's taking a something of a passive role.

Mac: Is difficult for me to read. I spent a lot of time in Xeno 1, Day 1 on the useless predicate Mac was scum, and he wasn't that game. He's playing similar enough that I'm comfortable he's probably not scum.

SoS: They go here after their reads post on the players I asked for. They were null (which I'll get to, I promise) but there's enough Town reasoning, even with my wariness of hydrae reading, I can float them here. Their posts have been sound, but have lacked a certain amount of -oomph-.

Null

: AJ: I'm not sure it's lack of posts of lack of him saying something useful, but AJ stays in this kind of dangerous spot. Nothing's he's said has struck me one way or another.

Nickthename: I'm agnostic about Nick. Everything I've read -sounds- Town, but I see other players don't like him, and like AJ, I'm not impressed.

Scum (with strength of read next to it; not in any order, however)

:

TF (weak scum to null): Still giving them shit after that joke I like to call 'supporting Skull on the Mastin lynch without reading it's actual content.' That's probably the most glaring error, but it was almost akin to calling Skull Town without actually calling them Town. I'm also mildly suspicious they felt more ok when I called them out on it, and have been one of the most vocal critics of the Mastin wagon.

Venmar (weak/gut): Something about Venmar makes me uncomfortable. It might be the sheer eagerness of the Mastin wagon, it might be a few other unnameable factors, but I don't like him for town. At all. I concede, that out of the next three people I'm going to talk about, maybe one will be a voting concern.

TD (weak): Nothing's jumped out and bit and it usually does with TD's play after the early wagon this game, and the flail was bad. But it was still the kind of read you have early Day 1, so it's entirely possible I'm still being unfair. It was kind of like 'gee, thanks' when he joined the Skull wagon,
you don't trust gifts from scum reads.

Andrius (weak): Yes, I do read Andrius as weak scum here. Something about his play seems off. He's not as...dedicated or playing it up as much as he was in Xenosaga, and he's not even really bothered to make even perfunctory excuses about his absence. The wagon's a little popular, tho', and there's likely to be one scum on it.

Mala (medium): Mala's too aggressive and has had direct fights with at least me over what stuff in her personal lexicon means after she's accused people of misconstruing her comments. Which leads me to believe, instead of a more muted, or a 'I don't care what you think', she cares VERY much what you think. After a point, calling people on direct misreps from you seems like you actually give a fuck what others think of you. I actually look for this 'tell' in certain arenas of play, and it seems Mala's a very...populist candidate.

RachMarie (medium): The only detraction I have from this wagon is it's very popular, and Day 1 wagons that are popular are almost always driven by scum in some way, shape, or form. This isn't the Rach from Harry Potter, her reads are weak and we had to take them out of a back hoe, and she seems badly off-target, as if she's subtly changed her play, is off target here. You know how people often accuse others of being too helpful? She's ringing the not helpful enough catergory. Also 'I always play this way' isn't a defense, it's a line of comedy.

Mutley/Skull (strong): Skull did nothing, asked inane questions and used them as jumping boards; acted in the laziest possible manner to Town an didn't release coherent reads. If that slot's not scum, then it's incredibly poor Town.

[Ghostlin]

1134 : Don't like the idea of wanting the IC dead. I understand that NS's posts are lackluster, but c'mon.

1143 : Hints towards wagon analysis of the mastin wagon, but doesn't go too in-depth. Town-confirms more people, too, but has some articulation as to why.

1462 : Another good content case and post from Ghostlin. Dispels more anti-town thought than I can shake a stick at, but also makes me feel waaaay better about earlier play from him. The comments on NS are pulled back, and previous moments where it felt that Ghostlin wasn't really paying a lot of attention are turned into points made against various players and in justification of a new wagon.

Two things I want to talk about here, although this cements FTL town, so they're discussions about the points he raises here:

1) Until very recently, or until I managed to wrap my head around it, NS was hitting the wrong buttons. If you annoy or confuse me enough, I generally want you dead because I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose or as scum and you're annoying me. That's where 'nuke it from orbit' came from. It was my most blood and guts reaction to NS in general. Looking back, I wonder why Andy asked that particular question, because honestly? Vig shots on a IC are a wasted resource, no matter how much I disagree with the player in general.

Also, not included above in the reasoning of the reads is Mala going 'why are you ignoring the conf-Town player?'

A few points of why I don't like this:

*Exceptionally pro-town players get listened to. They don't always get their candidates to eat rope, I've been fucking living and breathing proof in games where people call me fucking protown and still don't necessarily follow my lead on lynches. NS is confirmed town, not pro-town by himself.

*IC just makes PoE easier, really, unless the players worked his ass off to be pro-town.

*The best analysis of a Town player is when they're dead. That's gotta be the most horrible thing ever said, but I said it. Who did they like, who did they not like? Who benefits, and who comes short? Who were their allies? These enable you to find scum even on a weaker player.

*IC doesn't mean infallible except in the sense they're 100% Town.

*I don't believe Mala's not smart enough to not know all of the above. I think this is a way to manufacture Town-cred by going to the poor innocent child's cause, NS, when we've pretty covered the whole 'don't kill NS unless you want to scum claim right the fuck now', spectrum of things. We don't have to pay special credence to his words, we just have to at the very least, accept he's Town and leave him alone.

2) Re: my reasoning on Mastin being weak. I'm not going to say much about Mastin for obvious reasons except I find him exceedingly genuine, protown and mostly because his crazy is hard to duplicate. There are a few private tells that Mastin has passed that I am not going to share with Town at this time.

[Ghostlin]

Speaking of ordering food, there's a place nearby that delivers ice-cream. If you wanna, please get me some. Make if vanilla, though. That's the flavor I always get when I order it. I might even order some tonight, actually. I'll let you know how delicious it is, mwahahah.

@Ghostlin: Muttley isn't exactly a bastion of town play, but I've seen him make good players mid-game.
Out of the overlap in our scum reads, which ones would you like to discuss/see as a D1 lynch? I'd like this day to wrap up soon, it's gone on way too long and I think we have more than enough info to get at least one scum.

-V

Our choices, from your reads list, V, are Trust Fund/Andrius. That's not much there to work with.

I could see my way onto an Andrius lynch, but I like RM quite a bit more and will probably end on that wagon MUCH closer to lynch. I don't trust my Trust Fund read at this juncture enough to push it much more beyond 'let's continue to discuss Trust Fund's play'.

[Ghostlin]

oh look at that, peeps were pushing skull and bam turns out he is replacing out? What is with going after low hanging fruit eh? How about we catch real scum instead?

You know, I have extreme and abiding faith in my Skullduggery read.

Don't fuck it up by trying to outscum with this pathetic, unworthy of you, waste of bytes misdirection. God, you ARE scum this game, aren't you?

No, don't answer that, it's what we call hyperbole/rhetorical question.

[Ghostlin]

Hey Ghostlin, I don't think I heard back from you re those players you wanted our thoughts about.

Sup?

Still want them. Comfortable about your slot. I thought you had posted them and I missed them, but I guess not.

[Ghostlin]

You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town. Majiffy's reads list looks town to me, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

BRO's the only one I didn't mention in my reads post, but I'm kind of on the same page. There's some warping of perceptions that are going on with his reads/posts that ring wrong to me. The words 'horribly inaccurate' spring to mind.

I understand why you're torn about Mastin from a certain perspective, but if you trust I'm town(ish), trust me on my Mastin read.

Alright. Yeah, TF rang the wrong bells with his interaction with Skull that I will continue to bore this game to fucking death with. There's getting votes and then there's letting players get away with crap they shouldn't.

GiF: I think Mala's aggressive, angry play seems to be coming from the perspective of hyper-defensiveness you can see in certain scum.

I can see where you're coming from. I understand your reads, and I think we're close enough to the same page I don't think we'd be shouting each other down.

[Ghostlin]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastin2

Skull joins cool kids club list.

Next person to try to misrep this post gets a free Syr-swearfest, i'm tired of keeping him chained up.

"Cool kids club" != "cabd's townlist" it means "you're voting for the wagon I am currently on and supporting and urging people onto, cool"

Syr/Cabd, it's not even particularly good at that.

[Ghostlin]

Actually no it would be a hilarious plot twist if you guys argued for 75+ pages only to policy lynch the replacement

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saki

Let's make it happen

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?

[Ghostlin]

Yeah, there's nothing here that's making me want to:

1) change my vote
2) get me good feelings about Saki trolling by starting this off by voting himself
3) do much of anything besides list off 1 and 2.

[Ghostlin]

welp let's get off the topic of other games

policy says you're stupid
can we lynch you now

Do you actually care if Mutley is scum or not? Because that's kinda of the idea of this game. Unless you're scum, in which case, continue and we'll lynch you after you're done fake bussing.

[Ghostlin]

1738has my scumlist. That list hasn't changed much except for the following alterations:

Andy, since posting as drunk Andy, is sliding more towards Town at this point toward null/scum.

Saki, who took over the Thezmon slot, has slid that slot toward null--I don't like the crap posting; and it's erasing the gut read I had there.

Nacho is sliding towards a soft town read at this point.

It's worth noting that no one's producing anything with any interest to make these change that much.

[Ghostlin]

Based on the 13 lynch pools provided, Rach and Andrius are still the only realistic lynches today.

Ghostlin: You have Rach and Andrius both as scum but haven't touched their wagons. Why not?

Mastin: Same question.

B&tB and SoS: Bro probably isn't happening today and you guys aren't doing much to change that. Mollie, you already said Rach is moving towards null--can that be talked into a vote? Fferry, are you still townreading Rach?

Saki and Mutley: Shut up and focus. Then vote Rach.

Venmar, NS, Mac: wtf are you guys doing? Put your vote somewhere useful. Like on Rach.

Mutley's slot is more scummy. There are three days left to lynch. I will be voting Rach closer to day's end, but I don't see the point in rushing lynch day 1.

[Ghostlin]

Closing options and ending the day doesn't produce more content. If we're going to durr day 2 like the end of this day, then I'd rather keep my vote where it is and see where consensus is.

@saki: do you really only have Mutley as your only scum read?

[Ghostlin]

Mutley's not moving, so I can be happy with this vote.

Unvote.

Vote: RachMarie (L-3?)

[Ghostlin]

Can we lynch mutt or rach please?

[Ghostlin]

Andrius, I would support a Saki flashwagon or finishing our grisly business with MS.

Mastin, if you believe I'm as Town as I think you do, VOTE RACHMARIE TONIGHT. Andy's shooting up the Town charts.

Muffin, he's not scum. Let me put it this way: I honestly and irrevocably, with every fiber of my fucking being, believe that one simple truth.

[Ghostlin]

Mastin, not Saki. Saki's probably scum or very good p-lynch.

[Ghostlin]

I don't get why all of you would talk of a PL if you guys are SO TOWN AND SO DESPERATE TO GET A LYNCH ON SCUM.

Would it help if I drew you a fucking diagram of all the ways I could see you as scum, and then elucidate that the PR would be the cherry on the top of the scum sundae?

[Ghostlin]

Saki, who took over the Thezmon slot, has slid that slot toward null--I don't like the crap posting; and it's erasing the gut read I had there.

And it's sliding toward the oblivion that is the scum pile..

[Ghostlin]

Can someone help me figure out what the rational behind a saki kill is, it bugs me.

vig kill obv.

I killed him cos he is a little shit

2nd Andy's nomination for Mutley Best New Player of 2013.

I couldn't have done it better myself if you gave me the fucking gun. Welcome to the town bloc.

Mastin, anyone who claims that as a Vig shot without counterclaim is roughly 95% Town.

Andrius, lynching Mastin will make me very angry. Do you want to see me very angry?

So...anyone else thinking that Mala's last post about giving us all a free pass because we p-lynched scum seemed very insincere? I mean, come fucking on---I know bottom feeding, but the Rach wagon wasn't it, particularly since she blatantly tried to redirect onto Mutley when her wagon started.

Also, TF, Nick failed your reaction test.

Vote: Mala

Also happy birthday, Bork.

[Ghostlin]

Hello, Nacho. School semester started. Sorry for that, and also there's another reason why I've not been posting: the topic is fucking boring.

Here's my feelings on the Nick wagon: Meh.

There has nothing Nick has said that has jumped out and bit me either way. He's been pretty passive, and I can vaguely remember him playing this game, and it seems he's not gone out of his way to interact with anyone. In other words, I've got nothing either way. There's nothing really to construct a case of why Nick's scum, and I couldn't recommend him to Town to anyone. This is dangerous as the game drags on, but it's hardly alarm bell worthy Day 2.

I'd lynch him if there was no other option and the other lynches aren't going anywhere, but we have Mala, who's had horrible reactions to everyone and just seems utterly scummy. Can we just lynch her and leave Nick for a later day, to decide if Town or Scum?

Also, Mutley's Town for taking care of Saki.

[Ghostlin]

There's a difference between wanting nick dead and wanting nick dead now, immediately, as in "should have happened five days ago". That's the difference between "in favor" and "against". For instance, me? Against--at the moment. Not because I think nick is town. Because I think ending the day immediately is a bad idea.

Also, it's a wagon that gives us fuck all for information. It's a shit wagon based at the very least on a few Townsfolk who feel like me that Nick's lack of interaction could mean he's scum, and scum willing to shit slide it into a Day 2 lynch.

[Ghostlin]

There's a difference between wanting nick dead and wanting nick dead now, immediately, as in "should have happened five days ago". That's the difference between "in favor" and "against". For instance, me? Against--at the moment. Not because I think nick is town. Because I think ending the day immediately is a bad idea.

Also, it's a wagon that gives us fuck all for information. It's a shit wagon based at the very least on a few Townsfolk who feel like me that Nick's lack of interaction could mean he's scum, and scum willing to shit slide it into a Day 2 lynch.

[Ghostlin]

This is dangerous as the game drags on, but it's hardly alarm bell worthy Day 2.
...
Can we just lynch her and leave Nick for a later day

I'll let you consider the idiocy of what you've just suggested by pointing out two separate ideas in your post.

Then kindly notice all the obvtown on the nick wagon and place your vote there.

These aren't opposing ideas. And because there's obv-town there, doesn't mean Jesus's second coming has happened and they've magically become infallible. Bluntly, I'd rather not lynch a shit townie that might have an infinitesimally small chance of redemption that I'm lukewarm about as scum and would much rather lynch scum.

Is this a hard concept to understand, Bed and Breakfast?

[Ghostlin]

For those of you in the studio audience asking, "Is Ghostlin always this much of a shithole when Town?"

The answer is yes, yes he is.

[Ghostlin]

Mollie ynot

I want nicky to freaking post his reads and get back in the game and town tell otherwise majiffy will pursue him to the ends of the earth.

nicky is around, there is no excuse for him not getting active.

Bed and Breakfast, why don't you get your hydra heads shit together and get back with us on a candidate for lynch you actually sodding agree with? This back and forth is fucking annoying, and is making your slot The Load of this game.

[Ghostlin]

._. Why am I still alive.

Why wouldn't you be alive? Did you expect to be lynched, or night killed, or what?

Lynched

Why did you expect to be lynched?

because every fucking person scum reading me is still alive. anyone who is wanting to push a lynch and kill me after day 1 is still alive. I figured after I got ran up pretty damn fast in D2 I was the lynch.

be
[sarcasm] And utter resignation is the most protown way to deal with that.[/sarcasm]

Come fucking on. Even if you are today's play, you should give us reads or something actionable. Shit, Nick

not

posting is almost making me feel Majiffy has a point.

[Ghostlin]

mollie and jiffy: Please reevaluate your read on Nick. He's town and the last time I tried to tell you that your case was weak I don't remember you responding.

if we don't lynch him today then our vote will be tied up until nicky is lynched or dead. if I try to move our vote majiffy will just move it back.

Can't your hear how anti-town that is?

Anti-town, but not scum. Try again.

Or, to put it more succinctly, it's just the hydra heads fucking around not synching. That's not scummy, it's sub-par hydra play.

[Ghostlin]

Mollie ynot

I want nicky to freaking post his reads and get back in the game and town tell otherwise majiffy will pursue him to the ends of the earth.

nicky is around, there is no excuse for him not getting active.

Bed and Breakfast, why don't you get your hydra heads shit together and get back with us on a candidate for lynch you actually sodding agree with? This back and forth is fucking annoying, and is making your slot The Load of this game.

mebbe you could push your OWN scumread?

I did. I called Mala out on still doing fuck all when we should be lynching her. I don't know why you're feeling that I'm not pushing shit.

Honestly, typing "More Mala votes please" is more of attempt to look town than be town. Seriously, come on; you guys have more than one scumread right? Right?

[Ghostlin]

@ghosty

why do you think mala is scum?

Day 1 is full of more of her hyper aggressive defense and pushing much of no one.

Day 2 is her doing fuck all passively while we try to hang her.

As a third reason, Day 1's vibe and Day 2's vibe are not congruent with a townie who's had fuck all with a frustrating, pointless town. Granted, I rage at everything, but there's no meltdown. It's more 'meh, whatever. You want to lynch me? I'm good with that.' Generally there's a meltdown or something before someone reaches that fucking phase.

[Ghostlin]

Yeah, that's why I called it anti-town, instead of calling it scum. I have an interest in other people playing in a pro-town way, so I called them out on it

Why fucking bother if they're not scum?

Yeah, I've done it, but generally it's due to the fact that people are doing things that annoy me, like being useless. That comment wasn't useless, it came from a player who didn't operate with filters on. Which is what we want.

[Ghostlin]

Chill, I went to a waterpark today. I highly recommend it. Rereading now.

So, that's why you're all wet.

(OOC: Seriously, yeah, waterparks are fun.)

[Ghostlin]

@ Muffin: I'd vote FTL, Bro, or Ghostlin right now. In fact

Vote: FTL

Everyone who thinks Nacho/Rach is a thing needs to ISO FTL and Rach together and see what scum-scum interaction really looks like.

@ Nick: I'm not voting mala right now because she isn't a scumread. Why should I be again?

Bluntly, I love posts like this, because without any reasoning at all, it reads like this:

"Hrmm. I've not posted in a really damn long time. I need to post something, and it should be about scum suspects. Who are three people that have little do with any of the wagons so I don't have to commit to anything.

FTL will work. Ghostlin's a good candidate, it makes it seems townie without being too edgy but not someone who has a prayer of being lynched. One to go. Someone who a lot of people are on the fence about...BROsideon!

Now to vote one. Ghostlin will mock me and use the f-word a lot derisively. BRO might not respond, but FTL's posting cat pics. Wonderful! Let's place the vote there!"

However, Desp's right about one thing. My friends, I've been hiding something from you. I'm a Night 2 Suicidal Townie with the ability to give out the post restriction of using metaphors from Greek mythology when I die. I thought I'd give it to Andrius, he seems like the person most in Town to be able to use the parallels between being raped by a swan, and someone's reads to the maximum effect of comedy gold.

[Ghostlin]

What about their reasons do you find compelling, specifically?

Can anyone in this game post things that are not uber-high level and unable to engage with?

Alright. Desp's reentry to this game is bad, and he should feel bad?

[Ghostlin]

tl;dr

@ghostlin

who are you currently reading as town/scum?

In no particular order:

Town:

Muff, FTL, NS (duh), Des, Mastin, BnB,

thezmon (gut, mostly, but he's posted mostly town; worth mentioning I had Saki as a scum read, however)

Leaning Town, but not there yet:

Nacho: some of his later content dispells my earlier concerns, but not enough to show the utter commitment and town leadership he showed in Xeno 1. I won't say he's hedging his bets necessarily, but he's taking a something of a passive role.

Mac: Is difficult for me to read. I spent a lot of time in Xeno 1, Day 1 on the useless predicate Mac was scum, and he wasn't that game. He's playing similar enough that I'm comfortable he's probably not scum.

SoS: They go here after their reads post on the players I asked for. They were null (which I'll get to, I promise) but there's enough Town reasoning, even with my wariness of hydrae reading, I can float them here. Their posts have been sound, but have lacked a certain amount of -oomph-.

Null

: AJ: I'm not sure it's lack of posts of lack of him saying something useful, but AJ stays in this kind of dangerous spot. Nothing's he's said has struck me one way or another.

Nickthename: I'm agnostic about Nick. Everything I've read -sounds- Town, but I see other players don't like him, and like AJ, I'm not impressed.

Scum (with strength of read next to it; not in any order, however)

:

TF (weak scum to null): Still giving them shit after that joke I like to call 'supporting Skull on the Mastin lynch without reading it's actual content.' That's probably the most glaring error, but it was almost akin to calling Skull Town without actually calling them Town. I'm also mildly suspicious they felt more ok when I called them out on it, and have been one of the most vocal critics of the Mastin wagon.

Venmar (weak/gut): Something about Venmar makes me uncomfortable. It might be the sheer eagerness of the Mastin wagon, it might be a few other unnameable factors, but I don't like him for town. At all. I concede, that out of the next three people I'm going to talk about, maybe one will be a voting concern.

TD (weak): Nothing's jumped out and bit and it usually does with TD's play after the early wagon this game, and the flail was bad. But it was still the kind of read you have early Day 1, so it's entirely possible I'm still being unfair. It was kind of like 'gee, thanks' when he joined the Skull wagon, you don't trust gifts from scum reads.

Andrius (weak): Yes, I do read Andrius as weak scum here. Something about his play seems off. He's not as...dedicated or playing it up as much as he was in Xenosaga, and he's not even really bothered to make even perfunctory excuses about his absence. The wagon's a little popular, tho', and there's likely to be one scum on it.

Mala (medium): Mala's too aggressive and has had direct fights with at least me over what stuff in her personal lexicon means after she's accused people of misconstruing her comments. Which leads me to believe, instead of a more muted, or a 'I don't care what you think', she cares VERY much what you think. After a point, calling people on direct misreps from you seems like you actually give a fuck what others think of you. I actually look for this 'tell' in certain arenas of play, and it seems Mala's a very...populist candidate.

RachMarie (medium): The only detraction I have from this wagon is it's very popular, and Day 1 wagons that are popular are almost always driven by scum in some way, shape, or form. This isn't the Rach from Harry Potter, her reads are weak and we had to take them out of a back hoe, and she seems badly off-target, as if she's subtly changed her play, is off target here. You know how people often accuse others of being too helpful? She's ringing the not helpful enough catergory. Also 'I always play this way' isn't a defense, it's a line of comedy.

Mutley/Skull (strong): Skull did nothing, asked inane questions and used them as jumping boards; acted in the laziest possible manner to Town an didn't release coherent reads. If that slot's not scum, then it's incredibly poor Town.

Using this as the baseline to explain changes in the reads. There were changes I explained eariler in a previous post, but seeing that at least one of them involves a dead player that's now flipped, these aren't entirely inaccurate.

Reads that have changed:

Moving Townward:

Mutley/Skull (now weak Town): Mutley hasn't done anything incredibly protown except claim Vig and shoot Saki. Actually, that's incredibly protown and puts him in the weak Town bloc mostly due to activity. I'd love to see Mutley scum hunt, but I get low profile play at this juncture for him.

Andrius (null--ish): Not comfortable calling Andy either way. His last burst of drunk posts helped his case, but he's not really done much since then.

Going Down:

Nickthename (weak scum): ...Everything that sounds Town seems to be manufactured right now, and I don't like, am not comfortable with his activity Day 2. Maybe it's the paranoia everyone else has got. Although let me make one thing clear: vs. him and Mala, I'd rather Mala. Any day of the week.

Des (null/scum and falling): His entry and his entire work Day 2 is atrocious compared to Day 1. Seriously, dude, it's like you've not read the thread at all when you came back from your only 36 hour hiatus.

The thing that's really bothering me about my reads is they're not solidifying. Granted, I guessed Rach as scum correctly, but that's not going to help when I have to make a determination between a number of weak scum folks, who I want to focus and prioritize on.

PEDIT: I've struck through the dead players.

[Ghostlin]

mutley if you nked ftl I am pretty sure you would be given another pass. just saying

Seriously?

Okay, fine, BnB. Keep talking about finding town, keep posturing and mouthing off and all of that.

I'm working cognitive gears, I'm coming up with ways to confirm people without lynching/killing them, and I'm actually doing it.

If your criticism is going to boil down to calling me stupid and asking someone to kill me,

then please keep it to yourself

.

GHOSTLIN, JOIN ME ON MY WILD RIDE?
VOTE FOR MALA WITH ME AND PUSH THIS WAGON INTO THE SUNSET~
-V

Oh, V, you're adorable. My vote's already on Mala.

[Ghostlin]

#3308 is NOT Town. It's 'let's passively throw out accusations against most of the people who want a wagon against me' bullshit.

Also, if you consider anything Mala's said/done particularly TODAY as Town, you can all bite me. I'm having trouble naming one person who's done less for this Town today.
Wait...maybe Desp.

I don't really need a case at this point, Mala's screaming about how she's still the injured party from her misrep that's not really not a misrep for 90% of Town players.

[Ghostlin]

Des (null/scum and falling): His entry and his entire work Day 2 is atrocious compared to Day 1. Seriously, dude, it's like you've not read the thread at all when you came back from your only 36 hour hiatus.

Dude,

what are you talking about?

What you're referring to as my "entry" into D2 was my 13th post of the day. Can you be more specific?

Your reentry after your 36 hour hiatus was exceedingly weak and poor, and not what I expected from someone who had been trying to keep up with the thread. It made me wince. In a game that's not having a lot that's making me fucking wince, that's pretty bad.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin: So, to simplify things... You've got townreads on Muffin, FTL, notscience, myself, BeautyAndTheBeast, sorta-Nacho, sorta-Mac, Sorta-Mutley, and sorta-Andrius.
You've got a null-read on AJ and scumreads on nick, Desperado, Trust Fund, TiphaineDeath, Venmar, and Malakittens. Is this correct?

If so, then I can help ya. Move Venmar and TD outside of your scum-list, for a start, and we can hash out the rest of the reads.

Essentially correct, yes. BRO fell off again. BRO's a null--I can't say with certainty he's scum, but I can't cite any kind of behavior or post that's makes me fucking secure about BRO, and he's neither pissed me off or reached out to me. This in and of itself bothers me, kind of like AJ.

Alright. I'm willing to work with you minus Ven and TD particularly since they're minor reads--they're more things that are bothering me than 'rawr, scum'. My problem is a lack of certainty, not necessarily a lack of fucking consistency, I want all the scum dead. So let's hash this out. First, let me ask what you find about TD and Ven that makes you secure they're Town...well, you can actually answer that last.

How do you feel about the Mala/Nick pushes, and which one do you feel I should be pushing more. I've been focused on Mala most of today and I'm nervous at the Nick L-1 only because of self-hammer/scum-hammer before he squeals all the information or we finish talking this day.

[Ghostlin]

You know, Desp's last post made me go, 'Really, someone in this Town still thinks FTL is scum?'

Then I realized I was scum reading Desp. But for my Town reads, I present to you:

The Reasons Why FTL is Town And a Horrible Lynch That's Literally Going To Happen Over My Dead Body.

1) 1141. Scum do not allow themselves that kind of emotional vulnerability. There's a truthfulness, a genuineness the supersedes when most people use the fucking word 'genuine.' Scum do not meaningfully have a soft cry with you, or show that level of frustration. Most scum games are measured. There was a counter point of a C and H game where Var was scum and apparently put on a role to successfully fool town. I read the post indicated. It's not the same level at all. Aggression and anger are easy things to fake, and so's a deathtunnel. That level of what's going on that post is not the balliwick of scum.

But you might not like the 'Ghostlin Sincerity Tell.' That's ok, I've only got at least 2 more fucking reasons why FTL isn't scum.

2) MS is being ludicrous and Var's arranged a gambit, and they've attention whored up the thread again between the two of them. Yeah, they could do this as scum, but the attention seems to be a Town tell. They're not bothering to be low-key about this at all. This seems baseline Town for both of them, keeping in mind I'm actually watching for some variance not having watched their scum play.

3) Var, MS, don't take this the wrong way, but there's no way you've done that much wagon analysis and are scum. I'm not saying scum can't fake reasoning, a lot of scum can, but not many go through the woods like they've done through the wagons, sorted which players have been consistent and inconsistent and formulated an entire theory on that based on stimuli from town. Var's out done himself; his gambit isn't playing roulette anymore, he's running a fucking mafia science project like a motherfucking mad professor.

4) The Nacho Crazy Tell. Nacho told us during Xenosaga that there's no fucking way that Var can be faking that level of crazy. We lynched him Day 4. Spoiler: he was Town. He's still town here, and so is Metal Sonic.

So, no, I don't want to hear theories that come from the paranoia center, or from scum wet dreams of an easy lynch about FTL. They're fucking TOWN.

[Ghostlin]

ghostlin we have not interacted much what's up

mastin is voting mala so wat does that tell you

ns my love, where did you go

Mastin has good taste and we're trying to synch our reads and I trust him enough to do this. It really doesn't go deeper than that. The Nacho Crazy Tell is in effect partially here, and I've got a few secret things that tell me Mastin's town and 0% likely to be scum with Malakittens. Since he's also pushing Nick, he's not very likely to just be bussing Nick as well. Considering that it's very likely that one of [Nick, Mala] is scum, and Mastin is pushing all over the place on scum, and we're in Mod confirmed not-muitiball, it means Mastin's town.

[Ghostlin]

I'm mystified with the question, BnB. Is there something respective to Mala and Mastin's alignments I should be reading into?

Because bluntly, in my opinion, just because Mastin, who's a high Town read is voting my high scum read doesn't make her more scum, it only makes me seem less crazy in my own mind.

[Ghostlin]

He's fitting a case to his read which has been incredibly inconsistent on Mala to begin with. Ergo, HE DOESN'T FEEL MALA IS SCUM.

Are you saying that Nick and Mala can't be scum together with this sentence? Because I don't necessarily feel that way with your logic at all.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: Took a nap and came back and now you're on the court. You wanna jam with me?
Also, now that I'm here and you're here, wanna know anything?

Yes and Yes, and I'll try to make the question not sound trite. Will your gambit still work even with a Nick lynch? In other words, does it work in reverse?

[Ghostlin]

Bro's case on me is BS and fabricated in every way possible. He's probably being obtuse on purpose since anyone with a brain could read my interaction with RM as town.

Self-meta's a bitch, isn't it?

Hey, Mastin, why is this guy Town again?

[Ghostlin]

Or Ghost.

Oh, I'm agreeing that the whole 'my meta with RM means I'm town' is a bridge too far. I do think you're a bit cracked for justifying scum PGO over him being a shitty liar.

[Ghostlin]

Why are we even treating the whole Venmar thing as a thing? At worst I have a light scum read on him, and it's because he's being a trolly cocky asshole who's play I can't place as generally. Either way, he's not the fucking play today, so why are we even discussing him like he is and that there's a big 'Venmar is scum' conspiracy with zero support and zero votes.

[Ghostlin]

Honestly, I would vote him if two Town reads came up as the dominant wagons today and he was the only alternative. That's about fucking it.

P-EDIT: Not really, there's a lot of dickwaving and the 'oh, my god, there's a scum narrative around Mala and Venmar', the first while a wagon, only has four votes and is not the wagon at L-1, and the second isn't even a wagon. If scum are promoting this narrative, they're doing a shittier job of it then the 'Mastin is scum' narrative of Day 1.

P-EDIT X2: Dear God, Venmar, NO ONE HAS VOTED YOU. NO ONE ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT TO LYNCH YOU TODAY. NOW, PLEASE, CAN WE TALK ABOUT A WAGON THAT'LL GO SOMEWHERE? PLEASE?!

[Ghostlin]

well, specifically why bro thinks he's scum.

Let's try this then. BRO, why do you think Venmar is scum? Keep in mind we're recording what you say for later use.

[Ghostlin]

i can see the endgame now.

notscience, mutley and lynchbait at lylo.

it makes me sad thinking about it because it's a very real possibility.

*curls up into a ball and cries.*

[Ghostlin]

. . . that was a push?

in your opinion, why did venmar never vote andrius during this... push?

Because he was tunneling mastin all of day 1. He generally doesn't talk about Andy.

The Day 1 Mastin wagon will have gold at the end of that rainbow. Seriously. You will need to go back to it later. That was a scum push, I promise you all.

[Ghostlin]

^Most important Ghostlin post this game. If you ignore everything damn thing else that comes out of my fingertips, don't fucking forget that.

[Ghostlin]

Also, I do have to mention. This is a game from two years ago as me as a conditional scum-day vig.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17439

Not my best work (although I won with a flavor cop having essentally a fucking guilty on me).

[Ghostlin]

i don't think mala is scum, and i will probably replace out if a repeat of d2 happens today with mala instead of nick

. i'm not interested in arguing why mala is a bad lynch, and i don't expect to hear any good responses to the objections i have against it. venmar is also a horrible candidate at this point.

i will say this, though. in light of the nick flip, mala's d2 posts look townish, and the fact that she never showed any interest in jumping on the nick wagon is a good sign.

my guess is that even lynching randomly from those on the nick wagon would more likely hit scum than a mala lynch.

which reminds me. i want to hear why people think the nick wagon stalled so hard d2. i recall hearing a lot about how it was so obviously a town-driven wagon.

Really? We're going to be this immature about a wagon that you could easily call the 'victim' of coasting, not participating and in light of Nick, probably turned out less scum driven? We're really going to say 'if you don't vote the way I want, I'm going to replace out, and no argument is going to sway me otherwise?'

And before you go 'I'm only protesting the Mala wagon', it's still exactly what you're doing.

That aside...

It's null to me. :/

Everyone who is championing so hard for FTL town needs to look at the way Varsoon handled this nick wagon and get your shit together.

We should lynch this. It sounds like Des damn well knew the outcome of the lynch, and wanted to push the blame to FTL. Providing the mea culpa while riding the wagon to lynch ANYWAY.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Desp

barring a reasonable reason to go elsewhere.

[Ghostlin]

damn. i was hoping either i'd die or i'd be able to tell majiffy to SHUT THE FUCK UP for the rest of the game. that's disappointing.

@BRO,
updated scum list now

i grew extremely paranoid of an andrius-nacho team overnight. especially since it looked like nacho knew nick was a bad lynch but never did anything to stop it.

so...

someone tell me what they think was going on with these votecounts and why the nick wagon never picked up steam as a counterwagon to RM. you can probably already guess my opinion on it. i want to see others.

Votecount 1.18

[5] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8)
[4] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[3] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename, TiphaineDeath)
[2] Mutleyddmc (Ghostlin, Saki)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Saki (Mutleyddmc)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

---

Votecount 1.19

[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Andrius, Desperado, Aj The Epic, Nachomamma8, TiphaineDeath, Ghostlin)
[5] nickthename (mastin2, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Faster Than Light, Mutleyddmc)
[3] Andrius (Trust Fund, Malakittens, RachMarie)
[2] mastin2 (BROseidon, nickthename)
[1] BROseidon (Sound of Silence)
[1] Mutleyddmc (Saki)
[1] TiphaineDeath (Venmar)

[1] Not Voting (Mac)

I jumped off the Mutley/Skull ship to lynch Rach because I still like Rach as a scum candidate, and TD jumped off of Mastin, I'd say for the same reason, although even with one vote, Mastin was doing better as a wagon, tied with Andrius.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: like=liked

[Ghostlin]

why do you think this is?

Honestly, there were a lot of players that were apathetic for Nick as a scum candidate. It's sorta how I felt at the end of Day 2 about it. I wasn't even completely convinced that Nickscum was like the thing. He served as a compromise lynch Day 2, and Rach was a much better Day 1 lynch.

[Ghostlin]

@mala: If you think mastin is town, shouldn't you think venmar is town?

And yes mastin has a history of not voting his scumreads. Hence why he's scum!

Please stop this. Andy, short of sprouting sapphire dragon wings and flying off, I'm 1,000,000% sure that Mastin is Town. Convoluted at times, full of theories, but Town.

[Ghostlin]

Actually, I'm liking the BRO/Mala interaction. Please, continue. The whole Mastin thing is asinine and I would advocate a lynch on me before obv-Town Mastin.

Other things: 3734 says I'm scum, which is...coming from a scum read of mine. Alrighty then. And Des questions he vote on Mac.

For all this talk about Town Venmar, WHERE IS VENMAR?

[Ghostlin]

Bro is scum.
Nacho I'm unsure.
Ghost is leaning scum.

Here's a base level question for you. If you're convinced that BRO and I are scum with the total absence of votes upon us, WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING EITHER OF US?

[Ghostlin]

I think Venmar is town.

I'm agnostic about Venmar, I don't like him very much (in the context of this game) but I'm letting a certain someone get his way here.

Who do you think is scum, Nacho? And why, despite some insistence of wanting to interact with me Day 2, haven't you yet?

[Ghostlin]

Well, we could start with Mac, who I've noticed is posting elsewhere but not here.

[Ghostlin]

Des:

@NS: You give content. Don't sell yourself short.


@B&B: I support a Nick Wagon to lynch.

-V

"Didn't support a Nick wagon?"

Try again.

[Ghostlin]

Or, let me get down to more to the point. With the above quote, and Var/MS's only voting Mala to try to confirm Nick gambit; saying that FTL was avoiding Nick is kind of like saying that that hydra was maintaining abstinence by screwing everyone on the block. FTL spent pages talking about Nick and Mala's alignments relative to each other.

Then you are trying to construct the narrative that they wanted to stay off the Nick wagon, who flipped Town, because...

they were scum protecting a buddy

,

being town means they were scum and they wanted to magically avoid the lynch while announcing they were a gambitting with is a Varshoon tell and a drama-whore tell and hence Town..

reasons. You are either suffering from extreme confirmation bias or are scum hoping someone will bite on this narrative.

It's not going to happen, cupcake. Not enough people believe Var and MS drew a scum role. And your vote on me is bullshit. I've not been 'chainsaw defending' anyone. I've been pretty damn clear I feel FTL is Town and that a vote on FTL is a vote for stupidity.

The post you made is insincere for the following reasons:
1) If you legitimately believe that FTL was distancing the Nick wagon after the amount of crap and conjecture done it...no, I don't buy it.
2) If you thought FTL was scum pending the Nick flip being scum...alright, maybe, but it sounds passive aggressive. It would be saying the equivalent of me bussing Mala all game long.
3) The best way to run with that post would be wait for Nick to flip Town, and then push FTL for trying to start a wagon on Nick. Or distancing from the Nick lynch because FTL knew they were Town. It could work fucking either way.

The sad thing? That was the most indictive post you made the latter half of Day 2, and I'm amused that at the prospect that I'd been chainsawing FTL.

[Ghostlin]

I don't have to try again. Are you seriously trying to argue that FTL didn't do everything in its power to derail the nick lynch?

I could pull up quotes of Varsoon exclaiming his intention to do just that, but that would be pretty tedious.

So what's the narrative you're trying to construct?
*FTL is scum that knew Nick was Town hence they distanced his wagon
*FTL is scum that knew Nick was Scum hence thy wanted to save his buddy

You know damn well as I do that FTL essentially said he wanted to lynch Mala for his gambit that'd confirm their alignments. So, why post that at all except you wanted to make something out of the 'derailing of the wagon'. And that's not alignment indicative of FTL, but of you.

[Ghostlin]

Also, and I don't really give a shit how this is taken, a vote for me is a vote for brain injury.

[Ghostlin]

The original quote of mine was in response to Varsoon saying that Nick's ultimate inability to provide a mala case was null, even though he had been begging him for it for days. It was essential to his gambit. And yet Nick renegs on the deal and it's null? No. Town Varsoon who actually gave a shit about the gambit he was trying to pull should have been livid that nick left us hanging for days only to not deliver anyway.

Yeah, you're full of shit. You based you're entire predicate on a REACTION TELL? Varshoon didn't shit himself and scream, hence he's scum?

Am I the only one aware how fucking weak that sounds?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Second you're=your

[Ghostlin]

This was the progression of Varsoon's nick read:

Scum, scum, scum, scum, WAIT HE'S REALLY COOL LET'S TRY THIS GAMBIT INSTEAD, nope he's town now hahaha

Also check out these three posts:

Yeah.
What Nick has to say about Mala right now, on his L-1 deathbed, is priceless. Regardless of who we lynch today, it'll give a shitload of content to work with moving towards tomorrow.

-V

Oh, no, if he doesn't deliver his Mala case before the deadline, I will hammer him.


-V

It's null to me. :/

Bullshit.

He actually explains this three posts later. Since a really good Mala case might have saved his ass; it's against Nick's wincon to not post it (as scum, self preservation motivation), it's also against his motivation not to post it considering we could be looking at his case to ascertain and push Mala further if she is scum (as a Town motivation). I can understand, since FTL didn't...oh, wait, he did.

Three fucking posts later.

Not in as much detail, mind, but I can see what the fuck he's going for.

Nick was playing so fucking poor by not providing the case, I wonder if he got handed the suicidal Townie role PM on Day 2; but the whole thing is such a clusterfuck it's not alignment indicative. Which, again, leaves you with the fact that Varshoon didn't shit himself when the gambit didn't work, which is not something I see Varshoon, town or scum ever doing. You're grasping at straws.

[Ghostlin]

He actually explains this three posts later. Since a really good Mala case might have saved his ass; it's against Nick's wincon to not post it (as scum, self preservation motivation), it's also against his motivation not to post it considering we could be looking at his case to ascertain and push Mala further if she is scum (as a Town motivation). I can understand, since FTL didn't...oh, wait, he did. Three fucking posts later. Not in as much detail, mind, but I can see what the fuck he's going for.

Yeah, I saw that. It explains why it's null, but it doesn't explain why he didn't follow through on what he said he would do if presented with the exact situation that actually happened. Instead he still held on to his dumb gambit that would require Nacho to claim for no reason and finally hammered him a couple days later.

And that's alignment indicative because...?

[Ghostlin]

No, seriously. I'm asking you try harder than 'Nacho and Nick wouldn't cooperate with FTL's gambit to the point Nacho said 'lol, no' and so FTL didn't shit themselves in disgust, hence FTL's scum, and Ghostlin's scum because he's

chainsaw

defending them.'

Nothing you have said has dispelled the almost strange mindset that Var brings to mafia games.

[Ghostlin]

I disagree, but I'll keep my trap shut for the time being.

Andy, honey. You're missing something. I just gave you a gift in that last post. You can find it in that game

you first got my meta from

.

Please don't blab it all over the thread, I don't want anti-town forces to get a handle on it. It'll be our little secret. Shh.

[Ghostlin]

You get the free gift because I like you and you're probably Town, plus I'm probably fucking rubbish at secrets.

[Ghostlin]

Alright kids. It's time to list off the things I am and am not worried about:

Things I'm not worried about:

*The following people's alignments: Mastin, FTL, Muff, Andy, and Venmar. These people are town. If Venmar's Town, that makes Mac and TD town. I'm feeling much better with Andy after his frustration, and Andy, I can only fucking pinky swear and promise that it'll all make sense, along with my faith in Mastin's alignment someday soon.
*You guys lynching me. If by some miracle, the people fucking pushing me got to L-1, I'm that confident I got the towniest role that ever towned and if you guys lynched me after claim, we deserve to fucking lose.
*That Mala -isn't- scum. Seriously, whining that PoE is being fucking used when it can be one of town's greatest tools and that Mastin has anything to fear about getting lynched is fucking hilarious. I have similar feels about Desp. Anyone still pushing Mastin re: Mac isn't paying attention to this game and should read it again. Twice.

Things I am worried about:

*That BROsideon's reading me correctly and Nacho isn't. Paired with the fact that Nacho isn't reading Mastin correctly worries me all the fuck more.
*Bulletpoint one and replace BRO with Andrius.
*Nacho being scum. That would fucking suck.
*The fact that I really have no other place to go after Kittens and Desp, which is why I'm doubling down on them.
*Not being NKed yet.

[Ghostlin]

Why are we having this discussion about Mastin?

Because some people are apparently confused after Mastin's jump on Mac and the jump off of Mac. To the point of naked opportunism and not paying attention.

[Ghostlin]

... Sigh Mastin. Let's ignore me asking you to stop death tunneling me. I'm not scum. This is really getting old and annoying. It's these type of things in games that make me want to stop playing.

Also someone said TD is conf-town, how is that? I can understand TF, but not TD. I have a town read on TD, but I'm not going to sit here and call him conf-town though.

Problem is, Mala, there's literally nobody else off the nick wagon who can realistically be scum. This isn't a death-tunnel. This is pure. simple. logic and POE.
I'm not scum, Ghostlin isn't scum, nick flipped town, Venmar is town, TiphaineDeath is town. That leaves you, Muffin, and Andrius. Muffin's a decently-solid townread of mine, and I'm beginning to come around finally to Andrius being town as well. There's really nobody it can be other than you. (Heck, the Rach wagon's similar. I fully believe most of the scum bussed her.)

And your pushing of TD not being conftown yet having TD as a townread is even more evidence against you.

Simply put, I feel the game's been put into a lockdown and all we have to figure out is the remaining three scum who're on the nick wagon among the five names I listed. (Nacho obviously being one of them. Leaning towards Desp being another. But {BRO, Aj, Trust Fund}, I'm not as convinced on.) I legitimately feel like this could be (aside from the nick lynch as a necessary sacrifice to expose the scum) a perfect town win if we can fully sort this out.

How is asking why someone is conf-town in someone's eyes "me trying to push TD not being conftown"? I asked a question why. I think he's town, but I'm not going to call him conftown without some type of results. I don't see how it's any evidence against me.

It's okay when I flip town it's going to look horribly bad for you. You are trying too and keep trying to push a lynch off of PoE among other things.

Ooooh. A "This Won't End Well For You" Threat. Paired with the fact that you just finished saying Mastin was fucking Town, why would you want this to end poorly for him?

Oh, right. You're scum.

[Ghostlin]

This is why Mastin is town.

Read this ISO from this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=26140

it's very similar to how Mastin is acting here. He's town. There is no room for error.

@Mac:

I got a question for you.

Was your neighborize a day time or night time action? Which phrase # did you do it?

... Sigh Mastin. Let's ignore me asking you to stop death tunneling me. I'm not scum. This is really getting old and annoying. It's these type of things in games that make me want to stop playing.

Also someone said TD is conf-town, how is that? I can understand TF, but not TD. I have a town read on TD, but I'm not going to sit here and call him conf-town though.

Problem is, Mala, there's literally nobody else off the nick wagon who can realistically be scum. This isn't a death-tunnel. This is pure. simple. logic and POE.
I'm not scum, Ghostlin isn't scum, nick flipped town, Venmar is town, TiphaineDeath is town. That leaves you, Muffin, and Andrius. Muffin's a decently-solid townread of mine, and I'm beginning to come around finally to Andrius being town as well. There's really nobody it can be other than you. (Heck, the Rach wagon's similar. I fully believe most of the scum bussed her.)

And your pushing of TD not being conftown yet having TD as a townread is even more evidence against you.

Simply put, I feel the game's been put into a lockdown and all we have to figure out is the remaining three scum who're on the nick wagon among the five names I listed. (Nacho obviously being one of them. Leaning towards Desp being another. But {BRO, Aj, Trust Fund}, I'm not as convinced on.) I legitimately feel like this could be (aside from the nick lynch as a necessary sacrifice to expose the scum) a perfect town win if we can fully sort this out.

How is asking why someone is conf-town in someone's eyes "me trying to push TD not being conftown"? I asked a question why. I think he's town, but I'm not going to call him conftown without some type of results. I don't see how it's any evidence against me.

It's okay when I flip town it's going to look horribly bad for you. You are trying too and keep trying to push a lynch off of PoE among other things.

Town DOESN'T WISH THIS ON FELLOW TOWN. THERE'S A FUCKING COGNITIVE DISSONANCE ARGUMENT HERE, BUT I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO FUCKING MAKE IT.

Vote: Mala

[Ghostlin]

Mala should stop ATEing ;-;

mala nuuuuuuuuuuuu!

What is it about confirmed Townies and this game?

Guys, you could be fucking running the place. You could be making scum very sorry you're alive. Right now, you're making me sad that voting you isn't a fucking option.

Mala's AtE is null, particularly a 'Town doesn't want me in LYLO' bit.

[Ghostlin]

Although 3970 is probably the most valuble contribution from notscience, if it doesn't really help shorten the field that much.

[Ghostlin]

And before anyone goes 'why would I want to make scum sorry I'm alive, Ghostlin? I'll get shot.'

You're. Confirmed. Fucking. Town. Getting shot is your goddamn job, along with rooting out the scum.

Nine fucking people aren't voting. You better have reasons why right the goddamn now.

[Ghostlin]

IT'S ONLY DAY FUCKING THREE, WE SHOULDN'T BE FEELING APATHY NOW!

[Ghostlin]

My apathy shall pierce the heavens. Why is mac still alive?

Mac's still alive for the same god damn reason you are. I'm not thrilled about either of those, but that's going to be my default response when asked about you/Mac.

[Ghostlin]

Guys, you could be fucking running the place

Yeah, you don't want me running the place.

Mac -> leaning town

gives off the PR vibe

This bug anyone else?

The first: maybe not, but the apathetic inmates are already running the fucking asylum, it's bound not to be worse.

The second: The fact that FTL's wrong about the reasoning about Mac? Not so very much.

The fact that he's possibly pointing something else out he shouldn't? More than a fucking a little.

[Ghostlin]

May be V/LA next 24-72. I'll try not to be.

[Ghostlin]

Backish.

I don't like Mala's claim. Less to do with targets, and more to do with the fact that I'm not sure how well it works with the idea of a Town Bulletproof (yes, even one shot) and a piece of information I have that I'm not willing to reveal (it might not invalidate Mala's claim).

Also, BRO, you forgot 'NO JK on Nacho', which would help clear up some ambiguity on him.

[Ghostlin]

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie,

Yeah, this doesn't sit well with me mostly because it doesn't sit well that no one's mentioned there's a bit of fucking logic that scum might have a BP just in case Mutt decided to pop someone one.

I'm leaning towards one of AJ/Mala is lying about their alignment.

[Ghostlin]

Andrius, Muff: it's not really necessary for me to claim right now, is it? I'd rather keep the WIFOM one more night at least.

To the rest of you, read the game, it should be pretty damn obvious who Mastin's working with. He left so many breadcrumbs birds should be shitting all over this game by now.

Vote: Nacho

This vote is for Mastin. Also, nice setup speculation trying to out the protective role.

[Ghostlin]

Mod-confirmed to be town:

14. notscience, Midori Uzuki

8. Mac

18. TiphaineDeath

20. antihero

Town:
16. waynegg (vig in an assured single scumteam game)
19. Trust Fund (my role PM)
21. zMuffinMan (pushes over the past three days but mostly D1)
6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon has a hard time forcing this type of crazy as scum IMO)

Leftovers (3 scum be here)
1. Aj The Epic

2. Andrius

4. BROseidon
5. Desperado

7. Ghostlin

10. Nachomamma8

Let me help you out here. We lynch from the list I amended for you. We lynch Nacho today. Sorry, Andy.

[Ghostlin]

Hey. Notscience. I know you're busy playing paddleball instead of like, being Town, but could you come in here, trust me, and cast your Town vote for Nacho, please?

[Ghostlin]

The lynch pool is Nacho, Desp, BRO, AJ. I would lynch either Nacho/Desp today; I would prefer Nacho, since if he's on the scum team, he's their fucking strongest player and we need to kick that out from under them.

[Ghostlin]

And honestly, I'm iffy on BRO.

[Ghostlin]

also i have absolutely no idea who mastin was with. someone spell it out for me

No. Not now. Let's get rid of Nacho now, force scum to find who the remaining mason, and then go PoE Mason hunting, OK?

Seriously, we need to make today the shortest day on record before scum find their bearings.

[Ghostlin]

actually i might be a poor lynch today and might not have to effort away quite yet

your role is a vanillaizer that only works on scum
means that it's hard as hell to use and mostly useless unless the scumteam is stacked
there's no reason to limit varsoon's vanilla cop unless the scumteam is similarly stacked with PRs

This is bullshit. You know this is bullshit. Town Nacho has nothing to lose and everything to gain by disclosing his cases for full Town consumption. We've been waiting for Nacho to show up four in game days now.

Nut up or shut up and be lynched. We might do it anyway, but at least this way you tried.

[Ghostlin]

I don't have anything new to contribute.
So this is me posting.
Nacholynch pls.

If you can show me where and why Nacho is scum, and it makes sense. I don't see it.

Nacho is scum in my eyes for the following reasons:

*He's been underwhelming all game. By Day 4, I expect some kind of push. In Xenosaga he was all over the place. Here..he makes a few points here or there, but he's not steering, nor is he leading from anywhere. This isn't Nacho--at least not Town Nacho.

*There are some who have said 'give Nacho time and he'll pick up'. It's Day 4. If he's not producing now (and he's not) he's not gonna.

*This one's difficult to follow, but here goes: Nacho, quite publicly, caught me as scum because I can't fake logical Town thought well. He's hedged his bets (particularly with his interactions with Mastin, but even how he's treated people like me who he's said earlier he wanted to 'interact more with' and really hasn't) and he's produced low enough content to kinda squeak by.

*The AJ/BRO/Des case is an excellent example of all the above. Nacho can make a weak non-committal push without a case. As Town, even lazy Town, Nacho has no reason not to release the case. As scum, he has reason to hold off to see if his wagon will dissolve and we'll bite. I'm 90% sure he's bussing one buddy there for cred, and 75% sure sure he's bussing both for cred. In fact, if scum don't cross bus they'll die.

*Nacho has made the argument that he's done nothing that would indicate he was scum. The reverse is painfully also true. There's nothing to indicate that Nacho's town, either. It's a hollow and somewhat misleading argument by someone who I expected to be higher key and give a shit, and has promised to give a shit multiple days now.

*This is not a reason why I think Nacho is scum. However, a number of people if you analyze the night kills knew Nacho's playstyle. The remaining two with history I know about are myself and Andrius. Now, my problem with this 'argument', is it leads to an orgy of evidence wifomic problem. (Look up 'orgy of evidence' in TVTropes). Scum could be killing people with a history with Nacho to make us fucking look there, but Nacho's still a good lynch DESPITE that. Or even BECAUSE of it.

[Ghostlin]

That would be a waste if you're town. But it kinda sounds like a challenge. Always like a challenge. Tell you what...if you get run up to L-1 I'll call your bluff.

Girls, girls. You're both fucking pretty.

Seriously, neither of you are scum, and it's a fucking waste either way. Andy, you know Wayne's into fringe theory from the 'saga game. Wayne, Andrius isn't scum. Fuck, I'm not scum. Run me up to L-1, and I guarantee no one in this town will fucking lynch me.

[Ghostlin]

The bold really needs to be explained though...

Yes, that sentence is incomplete.

It should read, 'Nacho, has in the past quite publically caught me as scum because....'

I was jumping rapidly from thought to thought and dropped a participle or two.

[Ghostlin]

What's funny about it? I think my lack of expressed interest in the Nacho wagon is a pretty clear indication of my feeling on it.

Not really, it seems more that you don't want to discuss the wagon. Do you find Nacho to be town, and if so, who's scum?

[Ghostlin]

according to the above VC it seems that this is a town driven wagon


the last time that happened we got a nick lynch...

....No, we finally managed to lynch someone I called scum for three days straight. The Nick wagon was someone who was delusional Town calling a wagon 'by townies, for townies to lynch scum.'

It didn't live up to the hype.

[Ghostlin]

actually i might be a poor lynch today and might not have to effort away quite yet

your role is a vanillaizer that only works on scum
means that it's hard as hell to use and mostly useless unless the scumteam is stacked
there's no reason to limit varsoon's vanilla cop unless the scumteam is similarly stacked with PRs

You still have yet to explain where you're going with this thought.

He's either saying you're lying, Varshoon's lying or one of you is scum, would be my guess.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, what townread do you want explained?

Explain where you're going with 4494. TF's confused, I'm confused...

[Ghostlin]

Ok. After reading what you referenced, I don't agree with it, Nacho.

It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use, there is probably exactly ONE Goon, if you believe FTL is Town.

[Ghostlin]

Although, if there must be a counterwagon, AJ is a decent one.

[Ghostlin]

ghost, thoughts on just lynching aj today? i realise nacho will most likely kill one of the people making a nacho wagon viable, but it seems a lot easier than the uphill battle of getting nacho lynched with players who call him town but don't talk about why he's town and don't respond to any of the points against him. gonna bet none of the people calling him town even looked at his mala read progression.

It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

[Ghostlin]

Ftl, I am a PR.I will ensure you get results tomorrow. Clear?

[Ghostlin]

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:
It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

1) He's not unlimited use.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:
if you believe FTL is Town.

2) Do you think he's scum?


In post 4554, Ghostlin wrote:
It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

3) Tell me again why AJ lynch is less optimal than lynching me?

In order:

1) It doesn't matter 100% if FTL is unlimited use or not for a reason I'll get to in my next point.

2) Two questions: Do you think it's likely I'd say what I'd say in 4555 if I seriously, for three fucking seconds that FTL was scum?

And how stupid do you think I fucking am if the answer to the first question is Yes?

Look. If scum had a investigative role in this game, Vanilla Cop would be much more likely than Inquisitor. And if I am to believe both claims (and I do), I would be remiss not to mention that, at least in passing. FTL's role doesn't necessarily clear them.

That said,

barring outside cases, FTL is more likely to be Town than Scum through play alone, and the role makes sense because scum has a sick amount of power by what's flipped. Rach can give out passives to other players (and there was no indication this was limited utility), Malakittens had a unlimited RB+1 shot redirect (useful for say, in case the two shot Vig attempted to shoot them), and everything else that's flipped or claimed in Town is either VT or limited use PRs except for Mastin + 1 or more other player(s) Mason ability which is confirmed Town to another player, chat abilities at night and essentially what amounts to Innocent Child when Mastin dies. The only other player with a permanent sustained ability is notscience, and he's an Innocent Child, and this hasn't helped his utility much beyond PoE/Town vote when/where we need it.

Hell, Mastin's one shot was a

fucking backup

. Which means someone had to

die

for it to be

useful

.

It is much more likely that scum has at one non-PR for balance's reasons/power's sake.

3) Bluntly, Nacho, I don't trust your reasons for being helpful. Up until we almost successfully got you run up, I can't name hardly any contribution to this game you've done. You went three game Days without being more flaky than a Grands biscuit and and now you've got the fucking unmitigated gall to ask me why I want you dead more than AJ, who I feel while scum, could possibly be just worse than you at this.

Hell, you compound that gall with asking me what's the scum evidence you're scum. Here's what I got: a slot I trust implicitly that's now dead had you as scum, you're trying to construct a narrative where non-PR=innocent so we continue to let you live after you've not done anything to earn it, and the fact that we're having this conversation means you've deviated from most of your other games with me to the

point we're having the conversation.

It's not real strong. I own that, but I seriously believe you're clever enough to just give me that as the things I get to hold onto for the reasoning for the lynch.

And then you pop out with the possibility that it's probably between AJ/BRO/Desp (which we knew), and that scum have all PRs, hence if you're VT you're cleared due to the magic of FTL. So, your only contributions have been to contribute to the PoE that's already been going on and to the narrative that clears you as scum, which there's a metric shit-ton of scum motivation behind. If for some miracle you survive this game Day, because I'm going to do my level best to continue to lynch you unless you give me excellent reasons why not, or the slots I do trust (judgment wise) in this game right now give me indications why I shouldn't (and so far, they've been 'full steam ahead' except for a compromise if I can't pull this off), there's no reason to attempt this now. AJ, in my mind would help resolve another slot of PoE and get rid of a scum team player that wouldn't be hard to lynch at any other time.

I seriously feel the resistance to your lynch is a good indication that we're on the right track (Mala) vs. being utterly wrong (Nick).

[Ghostlin]

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

And this is has to do with this game...?

[Ghostlin]

ghost, thoughts on just lynching aj today? i realise

nacho will most likely kill one of the people making a nacho wagon viable

, but it seems

a lot easier

than the uphill battle of getting nacho lynched with players who call him town but don't talk about why he's town and don't respond to any of the points against him. gonna bet none of the people calling him town even looked at his mala read progression.

Muff: the italicized points are also the reason why we should continue with the Nacho lynch unless there's something compelling that happens why not/or we must compromise to the AJ lynch. It's why I've been particularly resistant to almost to the point of tunneling Nacho: the remaining scum out (Desp, AJ, BRO) are going to be easier to lynch. I feel we have a smaller window of opportunity with Nacho.

[Ghostlin]

I actually expected the Kool-Aid man, but Randy Savage works.

[Ghostlin]

And yet despite all of this I somehow have plenty plenty plenty of posts, I did end up voting and pushing rach while defending andy despite a thousand reasons not to, made no real reason to save mala the next day and instead had fun helping to lynch her to! This means that my play somehow consisted of letting scumbuddies die around me without making an effort to take a particular portion of cred from their deaths or making a particular effort to save them, which is pretty stupid.

You just did what you claimed that you didn't just do in this post. In even making the argument you were on the Mala/Rach wagons and defending Andrius, you just claimed your portion of the cred.

That's self-referential to the point of meta, you realize. Also, WIFOM. Neither Rach or Mala were very strong to begin with.

[Ghostlin]

Two Masons, one innocent child, two innocent investigations plus a third confirmed town, then two more confirmed town investigations and a third confirmed town is 9 confirmed town in three nights. Add a two-shot vig and scum possibly have to deal with 10 confirmed town. (10/21 or hell even 7/21) is pretty fucking difficult to deal with, add a bit of limited power, and sure it makes sense to have a stacked scumteam. Also, there are chances that mutley was redirected into a bulletproof to set up for AJ claim (I don't think scum would leave mutley unblocked for a second night or even unmessed with).

Muffin's 4584 covers this. I personally believe there's at least one Goon in this game.

[Ghostlin]

I would say that the whole AJ noise is a shit show to get us off Nacho but I know that I can't blame on design what seems to be an issue of competence on AJ's fault.

To answer Nacho's question of him handling the Mala and Rach wagon poorly, I do feel it's a WIFOM argument of little consequence atm. I still don't feel Nacho is a poor lynch. I will support an AJ lynch, but only when Nacho isn't going to happen.

FTL, go ahead and investigate when you can. I will do something else tonight.

[Ghostlin]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: AJ

if aj doesnt explain why bork said to him "hey you are a bulletproof townie! and hey, here's another bonus; theres a traitor!" in his next post he should be hammered.

nacho might be town if aj scumflips. desperado next plz.

You. Moved. Your. Vote. Off. Of. Hard. To. Lynch. Nacho. Onto. Hilariously. Easy. To. Lynch. AJ.

AND THEN YOU POST NACHO MIGHT BE TOWN OFF A LYNCH THAT EVERYONE COULD SUPPORT.

What the hell, man. What the actual. fucking. hell.

[Ghostlin]

I mean, if anyone doesn't think AJ isn't scum at this point, we've not been playing the same game.

[Ghostlin]

I'd like claims of the remaining players. I want to claim near the end of that. I've got an idea.

[Ghostlin]

Seriously. At least PR/not a PR. It's fucking time.

[Ghostlin]

Before I do anything else:

Role Name:

Marguerite Fatima

Role Powers:

Mason with my cousin, the Pirate Regent, Mastin, and Bodyguard.

Flavor:

A mixture of Mother Teresa and Jesus

Personals:

I like long walks with my cousin on the beach, talking over secure networks at night, and trying to save the following souls from damnation: BnB (Night 1), Venmar (Night 2-3, Mastin had you pegged for cop), FTL (Night 4; I kind of lied when I said I'd be doing something else). I'm probably a Taurus, fairly shy, and a vegan because I hate having any of my flock harmed or suffer. Except scum.

You

can fucking suffer. That means you, at least two of Nacho, BRO, Desp and Trust Fund for an alternate.

Next Move:

Will be protecting FTL tonight so he can get his investigation off. If there's at least one scum PR, we'll find him or I'll end up dead.

[Ghostlin]

i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town

Vote: Nacho

I'm fairly fucking sure you killed Muff last night. Prepare to die. Also, like Mac's Desp wagon.

[Ghostlin]

i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town

I laughed. Do tell me how exactly you intend to prove this.

The correct behavior here is getting off Andrius-town and voting Scum-cho.

[Ghostlin]

And if you want the scum list in correct order from most to least likely in my mind:

Nacho
Desp
BRO/TF (sorta wishy washy about either of these to be honest)

Everyone else
Notscience

[Ghostlin]

Well, fuck. No one wanted me to claim the mason part. Oh, well. Fact is, with this adjoining role, I'm not going to fucking make it to XyLo.

[Ghostlin]

i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town

Vote: Nacho

I'm fairly fucking sure you killed Muff last night. Prepare to die. Also, like Mac's Desp wagon.

Can you explain your Nacho read a bit further? What would Nacho have to gain from killing zMuffin?

Despite Nacho's (--snerk--) heavy lifting, there are few enough people that are bought into the Nacho wagon, and I have a misguided thought that the orgy of evidence fallacy is in play here. Or rather: why would Nacho kill people who know him? WIFOM if you're not a TVtropes buff.

This isn't the Nacho of Xenosaga. This is a Nacho that's content to go with popular wagons (like Mala and AJ and really Rach was a sacrificial lamb there). There are no Day 4 soliloquy. There's not even a modicum of passion here. He doesn't give a shit, and considering we're WINNING, that's really, really off. This is a Nacho that is using his reputation as almost a casual shield of arrogance.

Do I have 100% proof of what I just said? No, but I've also had a pretty good track record this game. Had you listened to me, we would of lynched Mala instead of Nick and be even closer to winning. In other words, this is a Nacho that's much lower key in the late game than he should be.

[Ghostlin]

If for some unknown fucking reason Nacho is town and he's just deliberately being this lazy, first off, really dude? "I'm obvtown so I'm going to coast?" Fucking REALLY?

Secondly, keeping him alive when he's an obvious PoE choice isn't helping Town really. He's self admitted to coasting and unlikely to change.

Thirdly, why was he so hard to lynch yesterday. If I had a lazy Nacho and was scum, I'd be on that wagon like shit on stink. If you could get rid of a player that is admittedly, as good as this game as almost anyone that's being lazy but could just pwn you late game, wouldn't you take it? We lynched AJ in -two pages-.

[Ghostlin]

I claimed, Bro. Td claims next?

[Ghostlin]

Nacho, I'm not odd night. I just protected Ven twice (N2 and N3). Antihero isn't scum because Ven left loaves of bread. He didn't just leave crumbs.

Andy isn't scum because of his reaction to my crumb, which I won't reveal. Anyone not 100% convinced I'm town, write down all of the capital letters to Mastin's first post this game. It would of been so easy for Andy to silently get his scum buddies to kill me long before now, and I don't have the crippling problems notscience used to have.

Let's just be real with everyone here: if scum only has power roles, then at least one of the VT claims is a lie. Which leaves the remaining PRs to be:

[Antihero, Mac, Andrius, FTL, TF, Wayne]

Mac is cleared by Antihero, and let's presume for a minute we can trust that Anti's telling the truth for cred's sake. That leaves:

[Antihero, Andrius, FTL, TF, Wayne]

Which I...don't like the prospect of lynching anyone from that list. Wayne's Vig shots seem to indicate to me that he's town; Antihero's probably town through Ven's play, Andrius...let's just say Andrius could of just went through me and Mastin like tissue paper much sooner than Day 4, and FTL I've trusted pretty much all game from my Var read. The only person I'd lynch for 'telling the truth' would be Trust Fund.

Even if you suppose that scum is somehow both in the PRs, I'm inclined to believe someone's lying about their status. Which would clear Nacho.

[Ghostlin]

Personally, I think one Goon+1 PR is much more likely, and the remaining scum PR is equally likely to be telling the truth about their role (not alignment) and lying, hoping to muddy up FTL's investigation.

[Ghostlin]

mmmm yeah desp has been dodgy as heck since day 1

*ahem* WHY ARE YOU ON FUCKING TRUST FUND, THEN?

[Ghostlin]

Wayne I realized that our date is stupid. I've already said all I have to say about the Anti slot, and us talking about the likelihood of a gambit at this point is dumb.

VOTE: Desp

Ok

VOTE: BRO

The good news: at least it's on an agreed wagons vote.

The bad news: getting off of Desp right afore lynch is fucking horrible.

Intent to hammer once Desp gets back to L-1. I'd rather Nacho, but Desp is more than acceptable.

[Ghostlin]

hey ghostlin i said a bunch of things

Most of it read like bargaining, and a lot of it Andy touched on.

Fact is, once I am gone, I don't honestly think there's a lot of let's lynch Nacho in this town. Your plan to lynch to lynch Bro and investigate Desp should work in reverse, it is only a matter of Town staying focused.

[Ghostlin]

Scum(s), let me make this clear to you: there is no way in hell you're going to lynch me, and I have a particular set of skills in which I will not rest until I either completely stymie your plans or you kill me. All of the plotting that Mastin and I have done have lead up to the next few days. This will not be a repeat of Saga. You will fall and you will lose.

Town. Ideally, you should lynch roughly in this order:

Nacho
BRO
TF
and if somehow we've not won at that point, Andy/FTL depending on which one of them is alive. No, I don't believe they're scum, I seriously believe one of the above three, and I'd place it roughly 65% Nacho, is the remaining scum.

[Ghostlin]

Also, scum: if you don't lynch me after I nailed Mala because I was holding the Town protective role and I've outted myself out as confirmed Town and my name is not notscience, I don't know what to fucking tell ya.

[Ghostlin]

5085: EBWOP: Lynch=kill me most savagely with a gun

[Ghostlin]

I'll miss you when you're gone.

Daww.

I'll miss you too, Andy. Don't let Nacho's natural charm and low key play bamboozle you.

[Ghostlin]

Go town.