Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Nachomamma8]

Man, Tammy, I just went through my entire morning routine eagerly anticipating your reaction to my awesomeness but there's nothing. =(

What gives?

She already laid down the awesomeness with a vote on your confscum self. What more could you want?

Vote: Empire

[Nachomamma8]

i mean you didn't know TAMMY was in the game?
really???

[Nachomamma8]

Uh yes, I went to bed last night early and the slot was still occupied by *checks* Grimgroove. I had woken up and just posted in the thread assuming he was still in the game since I didn't really see any notice from the mod so I was surprised to see her in the game.

your excuses are quite lackluster.

[Nachomamma8]

you think i'm reaching?
i think you're chainsawing Empire.

[Nachomamma8]

generic we gotta consolidate against these scumfucks and the bigger wagon at the moment is on empire.
do you mind giving me and tammy some assistance?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you seem to be acting differently than in the newbie game. Why?

My style as an IC is a little less aggressive and more consistent; the reasonable but still decently aggressive is the playstyle that works best until you form your own.

...oh god, I really am being trolled right now. Is this the suffering I inflict onto others when I troll? If so, I'm so sorry Tammy for ever trolling you.

Buddying Tammy isn't going to stop her from her reading you as scum; everyone knows you would never regret trolling Tammy.

Gaiden, you have anything other than fluff to contribute?

Probably not, but that doesn't surprise me all that much. YOU not having anything but fluff to contribute is slightly more concerning.

a scum would say by himself I think.

I agree with you but not at all for this reason.

[Nachomamma8]

taken a while to actually post something worthwhile in Mylo*

Mara - Nacho loves and trusts you Mara. He's confident that your heart is town, your mind is town, and your every post is town. My eyebrows crawl into my hairline over the occasional post but that's the way it goes. Underneath the heartiest of town cooperation lurk fears born in a nightless game long ago You know how sometimes you recognize town ffery in a game but all I see is scum no matter what you do or say? I get it now. Paranoia flickers around the edges, but I see what it's like. This moment of comprehension probably won't last, but the memory will linger. Today you are town for both of us because role PMS don't lie. Don't ever lose your mollie scum read this game. Don't let her get away.

AdoboNation:
First thing I want to address is the whole Mara reading TiP town thing since it's something that ffery and I disagree pretty strongly with her on and she's still a strong townread for me. First of all, I don't think that Mara would open up the game with townreading TiP at the start. From the way our wagon is looking at the moment, it's mostly being pushed by paranoid town, so scumMara couldn't have bet on us being a popular lynch target Day 1, and with that in mind, she would have to worry about us picking up on TiP and scumreading the fuck out of them, which of course would make her look terrible. But even better than that, I think that her #32, #33 switch from "let's wait" to voting someone other than TiP was extremely town and doesn't make sense from a Marascum perspective. For a marascum tip town interaction, TiP's first post makes him a viable mislynch to her; no reason not to wait and see how the rest of the town interprets it. For a marascum tip scum interaction, he could duck scumdars with the playstyle change. No reason not to wait unless she wants to bus the fuck out of him, but otherwise it doesn't make so much sense. But it DOES make sense for her to initially ping her as weird/unsure and then decide to upgrade him to a townread based on their conversations in site chat. As scum, she would also probably have a game plan for how she would approach TiP's playstyle change that she KNEW was coming, and I seriously fucking doubt that "immediate flip flop then defend the fuck out of him" was her answer. #24 was a decently smooth interaction with mollie, and I liked the trajectory of Mara trying to figure Mara/us out because it feels like she's the only one that tried. The "I think mollie is scum" was obviously a feeler which was completely ignored by mollie, which was later upgraded to a vote. Her paranoia on ffery makes a decent amount of sense and set up for the recent feeler vote on her; she later explained it by ffery always being paranoid about her which, again, is something that makes a lot of sense to me. It's a classic Wisdom accusation for people not to be paranoid enough of him. Her attacking me for not attacking her for ignoring us is a bit convoluted, but is also a move that makes a lot of sense. In short form, town-Mara has been following a lot of the steps that I expect her to a fucking T which means that yeah she's town as fuck and should never ever ever be lynched.

I think I was paying attention to you, Mara.

[Nachomamma8]

You're mara's old mentor? Interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Ms Marangal

Serious vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't concern you in mylo regardless of the high fluff Content I gave out,

What fluff are you talking about?

[Nachomamma8]

I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely

yeah ok i'm sure you have a very good reason for this

[Nachomamma8]

Every post up-til page ~10?

the naked reads, and the trolling, and random lists of reads with nothing attached to them, and me staying under the radar?

i don't call that fluff.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho and Tammy: This doesn't look like scumGeneric from Red Wedding, agree/disagree?

Agree. Although I will say that scumGeneric was not really showing up to Red Wedding, so I don't really pay attention to that meta.

And the reason is she is trying to AtE and box in my accusations.

What you're seeing as AtE I'm starting to see as genuine frustration, and if she's trying to box in your accusations, she's doing a damn good job of it because from what I gather from the argument so far, her rebuttals have been pretty fucking solid.

Nacho and Tammy: This doesn't look like scumGeneric from Red Wedding, agree/disagree?

Agree. Although I will say that scumGeneric was not really showing up to Red Wedding, so I don't really pay attention to that meta.

And the reason is she is trying to AtE and box in my accusations.

What you're seeing as AtE I'm starting to see as genuine frustration, and if she's trying to box in your accusations, she's doing a damn good job of it because I unders

The push you are making mara is that you always spot me as scum.

You said we should look for misrepresentations if we're trying to suss out your scumgame, correct? Here's one.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

This is not at ALL the right move. When two people are familiar with one another and they are fighting with each other, that is the very first thing you pay attention to and you sort that out before anything else. If you read Tierce as scum, I will focus in on your fight until you have sorted her out to the best of your ability; ignoring what is pretty much a free scum lynch if we play our cards right is the worst move possible.

You kids are so gosh darn cute. Gargant, how new to mafia are you? Questioning why Generic would think there are 3 scum makes me think you just had a few newbie games, this is correct? Rereading the post up top there, PB, I wouldn't call it building up your cred if you're answering a question asked about your experience, literally. There are quite a few of us here who have lots of experience

and are still horrible like me

.

Is there a reason why YOU'RE ignoring this beautiful Generic versus Marangal fight in thread?

If that case isn't strong enough to convince you all she is one of the scum team then do be it, but only one of us has lied and attempted to use factors that cannot be easily back checked or require you to accept their opinion on how the other plays.

I would expect you to use your relevant experience with Mara; are you claiming to read her without considering her meta?

And the sign off with "He is scum, I promise you he is scum." again It's just words. You haven't shown anything to back up this big statement, so you are relying on people taking you at your word that you can read my scum game... That's not a case. That's you trying to force through a lynch on reputation.

And why is it scummy if that's her conviction? Sometimes showing your work isn't the most important part.

[Nachomamma8]

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

These reads are pretty damn weak considering information in thread so far. Garg picking up on me feeling differently from what he's used to IMMEDIATELY was town as fuck. His attempt to involve himself in that fight that you seem to be avoiding was town as fuck. Shadoweh is cool probably town and all but you know there's no real reason peacebringer is scum and you know that ignoring the fight completely is bad bad bad. I'm willing to throw double-down on peacebringer being town and feel fine in calling empire town (he won't hide from me forever), and as of right now, feel pretty fine calling marangal town and generic scum. And it surprises me that you don't even get any paranoid vibes from him tunneling the fuck out of someone in the early game when that's exactly what he did in red wedding, when he's sitting back and chuckling at Mara lacking a case on him-scum when they have some history together and you know cases don't really need to be talked about when they have history together. Desperado has a slow start you also really aren't picking up on, and all the while it's this gorgeous, gorgeous fight going on that's generating this good information that you want to stop because you're being lazy/scum. Don't break my heart.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Generic

[Nachomamma8]

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

It does. That's why it's a bad argument for her to make as scum.
Also do you mind responding to what I've brought up so far? Tammy won't be mad at you if you talk with me, I promise.

[Nachomamma8]

then said because I have focused my entire arguement on mara (even though I argued with shadoweh AND peacebrinfer whenever they brought something up about me or to me) I must be scum.

I suspected you for following your own scum meta of misreps:

You said we should look for misrepresentations if we're trying to suss out your scumgame, correct? Here's one.

Mara said that she hasn't yet called town-Generic scum. You responded to this assertion with "oh, so you're saying that you always catch me out as scum???". That's not what she said, and it's scummy that you didn't even deny that she could read you or reply to those words at all because they are strong and they do have merit.

would expect you to use your relevant experience with Mara; are you claiming to read her without considering her meta?

Here, I didn't like how you were taking the high ground in using "confirmable" information for your scumread on Mara while she was not using confirmable information and that's why she was scummy. I pointed out that you were obviously using meta in reading her because you had many games together and were her former mentor, and thus it's strange you're trying to pretend like that doesn't factor at all into your read on her and the fact that she's using all of that information you have together is scummy.

Btw. It didn't go unnoticed in your post you throw suspicion on tammy and desperado for considering this unlike my scum game.
You are auto clearing people on much less so try not to be a hypocrite nacho

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting. I called Desperado suspicious for having a "slow start", I did not say that I was suspicious of him because of his meta assertion. Do you disagree that Red Wedding was a weak scumgame of yours compared to others?

But hey, we can try this again. I sure as hell didn't see where I accused you of tunneling Marangal, but we can let that misrep slide. Respond to my attack against you now that I've clarified it, and please don't misrep so hard this time; it won't work against me.

[Nachomamma8]

What misrep?

Surprises, not "makes me suspect you". Where was my attack on Desperado for thinking you are town off meta?

Putting aside I know she is wrong now it's a sweeping statement that you should trust her cos she is always right, which I called bullshit so how did I not dispute it?

She's saying she's good at reading you as scum. You don't deny the fact; you call her scum for a broad sweeping statement. You don't see an issue in that?

But reads can be wrong. For example I to d it interesting you were on empire as scum, and since then all he has posted is he hasn't had time and will catch up soon and suddenly he's town to you.

Empire is an easy nut to crack when scum. I want his entrance in the game to be as uncomfortable as possible in the chances as he does roll scum. He does look town at the moment, although I will say that it's weird as fuck he didn't pick up on me trolling him sooner, considering his familiarity with my meta.

What you are doing is auto clearing people with no reasoning. Still none, even when I press the point. Those you know you can't suck up to you place suspicion on, and all of this to do what exactly?

I've provided enough reasoning. My reads certainly aren't as set in stone as you're pretending they are.

Please feel free to wagon me to lynch. My early reads were early reads.

I place my opinion strongly on mara being scum. And nacho is becoming a firm second choice. But to make these words count you need to see my flip, so lynch me and then aim everything at nacho and mara. Cos I am happy to leave this game knowing I saw through them.

You could also respond to my concerns and stop dancing around them!

[Nachomamma8]

let's stop making walls since apparently you won't answer questions unless we do this the long drawn out way.

And your attack on desperado

where did I attack desperado?

[Nachomamma8]

Pedit: oh you didn't cast suspicion on him then?

I did say I was suspicious of him. I want you to quote my reason why and tell me how you get "meta reading generic wrong is sus" from my post.

[Nachomamma8]

And I told you 'a slow start' is a deliberately am oculus reason so you can play games when people question it or read into it.

This is a better representation of my read on Desperado! But it was not your original.

Btw. It didn't go unnoticed in your post

you throw suspicion on tammy and desperado for considering this unlike my scum game.

It's this that I keep nagging you about. Explain it. Or will you finally admit to the misrep?

[Nachomamma8]

My sons trampoline lesson now, so you carry on pushing a wagon even I'm endorsing and I will come back later to see what else you have come up with.

Lucky kid. I always wanted to take trampoline lessons

[Nachomamma8]

You don't need to respond to the case if you don't want to, Generic. The entire point of the exchange is to hear your side a bit more, to address some of my concerns about you. It's generally my method when dealing with fights like these to read the party I'm more confident in reading (in this case, it's Mara), extend to them a little trust if I read them as town and then make an attempt to sort out the other side. So first, my read on Marangal.

Hi Gengen!

I'm happy to announce that I'm town this time around, though can I say the same for you?

I mean, have you even touched a town PM since you've joined the site old man?

She starts out the game with a reach-out to her mentor, who I'm presuming is someone who can read her well. This is a good sign. Whenever you can read someone well, you have a certain power over them, and they have to adjust their natural play to something completely different just to dodge the instant catch-out that will come with a normal read, meaning that the resulting scum play will be awkward and less impressive than her scumgame against players that aren't familiar with her. But wait, wait:

@Nacho, I don't see anything wrong with Empire not knowing Tammy was in this game? I find nothing wrong with his reason, and I have similar thoughts to him RE Tammy. I, at the very least, expected the mod to let us know who is replacing who. I think you are reaching

She also opens up the game with a vote against me, and I have a pretty decent track record in reading her as well. Sometimes I let her dodge me as scum by ignoring her, sometimes I get false positives. But whenever I've scumread her, she's pretty much died instantly. This means I'm a threat to her, and the fact that she's reaching out to both of us right off the bat is a good sign. It's a very natural move as town; if we are town, we are the people she will connect with the easiest. If there's scum in our duo, she will be one of the first to root them out.

Every post up-til page ~10?

the naked reads, and the trolling, and random lists of reads with nothing attached to them, and me staying under the radar?

But hey, if we're gonna pretend that Mara somehow got some magical scum Role PM, then she opened up her play attacking one person who can read her. Then, when both threats link up and begin to band against her, she has a dismissive tone against the threat she didn't intend to attack; this is a strange move for Marangal scum because she NEEDS me on her side if she's going to push something like this. But instead of linking up to me, she dismisses my attacks as weak and stays focused in on the mentor who, if town, should be shredding her into pitiful little pieces by now. This tells me her conviction is genuine because it makes absolutely no fucking sense as scum.

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

as for the two consecutive votes on me, Nacho is wrong, but town and he'll eventually come to his senses and, he will eventually see that I am making sense and that I am town

Two more statements unlikely to be coming from Mara-scum. The first sets her up pretty shittily if you flip town and she has no real guarantee anyone will defend her when that happens. In the second, she's gambitting that I'll read her town this game? Yeah, she might be playing an amazing scumgame but even then I don't think that it's likely that she'd gambit on me townreading her eventually or that she somehow carried a delusion that she could make me townread her with the "he'll see what's going on if he's town". No, it's because Mara sometimes is obviously and powerfully town in every post she makes. This is one of those times.

So the first red flag comes up on you when you don't see what I'm seeing since you sure as hell don't have an excuse for reading her as scum when she so obviously is not. The second HUGE red flag comes when we start talking about meta. Marangal brings up that she hasn't called town Generic scum in all of her game with you. You do not call her out for being a liar (which would be extraordinarily easy) by referencing a game. You do not say "you're right. there's another reason why you're scum!". You call her out for making a case that isn't confirmable, for not having a good enough case and say that she's trying to say she always catches you out as scum (she didn't), and make a reference to a game where she called you scum when you were a jester to discredit her, even though you know damn well that does nothing to weaken her statement.

The third red flag is with your misreps, and how you handle being called out on them. I'm not a nitpicky guy. Hell, some of my cases in games boil down to "lynch him cuz he's scum", I have no problem with changing reads, etc. But there's a certain way that town handles misreps, and there's a certain way scum handles misreps. When I call you out on a misrep, you literally do not address them. It took me forever in order to get you to admit that you fucked up in regards to the Desperado accusation and you didn't even fully admit that when it happened. You misrepped Marangal earlier when she said she hadn't been wrong with a scumread on you in the games she's played with you. You're misrepping me when you say that I'm auto-clearing everyone I call town. You said this was your scum meta, so I'm assuming you would be extra cautious in clearing things up when these things happen, but you aren't and don't address them until I push you hard to. And then you accuse me of side-stepping when I'm clearly trying to get you to answer my question? Hypocrisy at its finest.

And now, there's this whole "Nacho and Mara are done when I flip town" shtick you keep pushing. I've had many people threaten that I would be damned after I lynched the fuck out of him. I, as scum and town, have tossed scum and town into the void as hard as I possibly could and never looked back. At the moment, your case on me is weak, your case on Mara is weak. I have concerns that are not hard to address. And not to mention it makes absolutely no sense for you to shut down when you think you have two scum pegged. But if for some ungodly reason you are town, I am telling you that you need to reach out to me, take a step back, and give me something I can work with. I can take a step back, I'm still willing to work with you, but holy shit please respond to my points on you without trying to throw dirt back. It's a convenient position to paint the people pushing you as scum and you prove that you're attempting to scumread me when your reasons start out as one thing and slowly morph to another when I call you out on your bullshit.

[Nachomamma8]

And for someone saying I'm dancing around points this here is laughable. You outright attack him as scum which you now claim was because the chance are he will flip scum, but having posted NOTHING but a comment that he will catch up when he can you have suddenly seen him as town.
I think you are sucking up so he votes the way you want him to.

It doesn't surprise me that you didn't pick up that the initial push on Empire was a lot of empty aggression, and it's a bit scummier that you decided to read him as scum and initially white knight me with that revelation in mind. Things that have me reading Empire as town:

Well ok, I don't give a shit if you think it's lackluster. It's the truth.

Strong response because my attack is clearly bullshit, which is already something that's unlikely to come from Empire's scumgame without any discrediting.

P-edit: Wow, Llamarble I expected you to have my back here =/

Empire town expects to be read by town by players who are familiar with him. Surprise in Llamarble reading him wrong is consistent with this belief.

Well yes and I'm pretty happy you can towninate fast without me having to troll you as a catalyst.

Question for you: Is Nacho town?

Starts sorting out Tammy and seeing if she's following the same things he is. As town, he's reaching out to someone he connects easily with. As scum, he's reaching out to his biggest threat.

Tammy also has reasons for reading Empire-town, but you missed those. If there's no reason to read him as town, why didn't you attack Tammy for doing the same thing I did?

[Nachomamma8]

There is a simple reason I can't reference colo games, beyond you signing up to the site... I can't access it. Have applied for a password reset and nothing. So she has free reign to say what she likes there.

I'll sign up for the site if you give me a link.

I think it shouldn't be their sole focus and I think it should be tabled.

This is all good and well but it isn't really something that often happens in a protown way.

there's no attempt to mediate or develop the situation, Gaiden just pops in at the end, yells at Generic for AtEing (why? He's having an emotional response, not alignment indicative either way in this scenario) and then baiting him to self-vote. + we still don't know his read on either of them.

Gaiden yelled at him for AtEing because that's not really useful to town in any way whatsoever. He told him to step up his game in town and aimed to antagonize him a bit by telling him to step it up. I actually liked that quite a bit!

Also, can people please stop using hypocrisy as a scumtell?

I know, I know. I'm ashamed.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end? Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

I was on the offensive last night, just in case you couldn't tell. I'm pretty glad I did, though; I don't think I would've caught that you were actually doing this from a pro-town perspective as opposed from the "people are posting too much i'm not reading what they're saying" I see so much.

I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

I agree. Don't really think he needs to claim though.

[Nachomamma8]

Registered. Where is the mafia?

[Nachomamma8]

Ultimately wagons form to push to claiming point.

That's not why I push.

[Nachomamma8]

hey shadoweh you're wrong on bert
love, nacho

[Nachomamma8]

I sound like scum so far don't I >_>

I guess my town not fully engaged game is kinda similar to my scumgame.
Anyhow I'll make myself useful soon

Desperado probably needs to be Chaos Dunked.

VOTE: Desperado

You would be dead if not for these two posts, Llamarble.

Unvote, Vote: Desperado

[Nachomamma8]

or just click these links. My username is Currently PurplePaws

was that one game your only experience with Gen scum?

Heck, I feel that way when I see Tammy posting. I don't think I could lead a successful case against her, ever, even if I really really wanted her dead.

Learn how to read her reactions to getting pushed as scum versus her reactions to getting pushed as town.
Find random points to properly push her as scum, and if her reaction isn't as poignant to you as it is to me, then declare her scum based on meta. You only need to read her correctly once, and then you can link to that correct game as added push to get her lynched easily in future games. As a bonus, push her whenever your townread gets stale and she'll give you that poignant reaction again as scum.

And what would make you jump to me of all people going at it from the perspective of dont want to read all that?

Because I care about your opinions wrt the fight more than most other's.

I don't like Shadoweh so far

what do you all think of him/her?

I like her.

I feel like he took the antagonism too far,

What would've been a more acceptable level of antagonism?

I feel like the tone of his post was geared more towards pushing Generic's buttons than getting him to step his game up.

What's the difference?

Really interested in seeing what you've got from that other site. I'll probably be registering myself soon enough but I'd much rather get through Generic's meta here as I feel that's the most relevant seeing as other site's play the game differently.

I would like to talk to Mara about the other site first, if you don't mind. Although I wonder...
Mara, Gen, would it be OK if I made the account a public one so people could access its meta?

Nacho, love, please come reach out to Pappa.

I don't feel the love yet.

Vote: Nachomamma

What do you think of Desperado?

Yeah, I've been having a very hard time reading people this game. Thor's debates in my last newbie game were better than this.

If you can't read people, sheep me until you can.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho and Tammy: This doesn't look like scumGeneric from Red Wedding, agree/disagree?

Desperado, your current reasons for Generic being town are this and town-flail. I don't think that not acknowledging misreps that you've made is town-flail; I think that the "vote me and see the truth of this game" is town-flail, but you're picking up on Gen-town too early and not for good reason.

Peace's Generic questioning looked really town to me,

Why?

I am reading Generic town but you aren't, I was just trying to gauge the hierarchy of your reads

This line of questioning seems useless. What did you expect to gain from your questions about Shadoweh-Generic? Why wasn't "probably on the same team" good enough for you?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho is town.

How many times have you played with me before?

[Nachomamma8]

I wanted to see if you would lie about it or not. Now that I've caught you lying, why did you lie in the first place?

[Nachomamma8]

I wanted to see if you would lie about it or not. Now that I've caught you lying, why did you lie in the first place?

you know that i wasn't asking about your account.

[Nachomamma8]

OK.

[Nachomamma8]

GENERIC MARA POISON KING IS ASKING ME WHAT GENRES I ENJOY AND I JUST WANT TO SEE MAFIA META

[Nachomamma8]

(As an aside, I think Bert is very different from SoO in that he seems a lot more like a "heart-on-sleeve" kind of player and that mimicking that level of transparency is very hard to do as scum. SoO just kinda lurked his way through the whole game without offering solid opinions on anything.)

Bert is obviously and wonderfully different from SoO.

[Nachomamma8]

Generic, what do you think of Desperado?

[Nachomamma8]

Why is your vote parked on someone who acts like I have in some of our past games

I switched my vote, my love.

[Nachomamma8]

None. If his goal was to get Generic to shape up and stop AtEing, flatly accusing him of AtEing and inviting him to self-vote was a really odd course of action.

Right, but you imply in your last post that he would've been OK if he didn't seem to be egging Generic to meltdown quite so much. Did I misinterpret that?

Because his questioning appeared to be geared towards discerning Generic's alignment--in contrast to Gaiden's fan flaming in particular.

You know you're gonna have to explain more than that for me.

unvote,

crawling in a corner... someone let me know when the metanonsense stops and give me a kick

Does this mean you're reading Empire as town?

Purple's ISO is just...super boring. So possible PoE scum candidate but nothing even remotely interesting here.

What do you think about him lying about if he's played with me before or not?

Nacho maybe when you come back you can remind me what you think of Gaiden at THIS point in time. Not before today, not in the past, not conjecture. Opinion, today, now. I mean is Gaiden avoiding this game or what, it does not make sense

Non-zero chance of flipping scum, yes. I don't really have a handle on him right now and am not comfortable pushing him for a lynch at the moment. Still doing my own thing. I will say that Gaiden's most recent posting (asking if anyone has any questions and then acknowledging that his posts are pretty much enough to be voted) seem more like newtown than newscum to me; fresh newbie town don't have the townie indignation experienced players have because they don't quite understand the power of truth, so him seeing if there's anything he can do to clear motivations up and then shrugging seems pretty town to me.

(damn Nacho, this is your fault) - and I didn't really have time to go back and quote stuff.

<3

[Nachomamma8]

empire meta diving will have to wait tomorrow; on limited time today so no legwork for me.

[Nachomamma8]

Gaiden claims now that he agreed with generic's early play,

This was a recent development. I'm still stuck on the past.

[Nachomamma8]

Yes but it supports my read over yours. You thought his original comment was genuine and I didn't. We now know that it wasn't.

What reason does he have as scum to contradict himself?

[Nachomamma8]

Do you have anyone as scum nacho? Besides me I mean.

I only ask because I have seen you give arguements to a lot if other people's scum read as to why they are town to you, who are your current suspects?

Desperado, Purple Shoe, Llamarble is working his way back to a scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

shadoweh is there a reason you're ignoring my bert read or

[Nachomamma8]

shadoweh is there a reason you're ignoring my bert read or

?

[Nachomamma8]

Llamarble's #508 is a good start.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Want to pick up where we left off yesterday?

And 508 is a good start in what sense?

Not particularly, no. 508 is a good start because he's providing something instead of nothing and is actually on a track to attempting to figure this game out as opposed to doing nothing at all.

Uh dude, I'm not really seeing anything there, I think him "lying" about it is just more likely to be a "Shoe-being-a-quirky-alt" thing rather than a "Shoe-being-scummy" thing. I mean, if he knows that you know his identity (as #355 seems to suggest), why would he deliberately lie about it?

He didn't know that I knew his identity until I called him out for lying about it. And I'm guessing that he would deliberately lie about it because I can generally read him pretty easily and he is scum as fuck this game.

Vote: Purple Shoe

[Nachomamma8]

You won't even answer the simple freaking question I asked you earlier, you keep avoiding it.

I asked why, and you said I was using the question to avoid answering everything else and when I asked what I have avoided, you don't even answer that

I spent time trying to reach out to you, consider the fact that I was, maybe wrong but you aren't doing shit to help me find scum, or figure out your mindset

and you are still using appeal to emotion with maybe a little bit of logic I think?

We were upset at him earlier for pushing without having a case and avoiding etc. etc. but I thought we both came to the conclusion sometime earlier that he's probably not the right place to focus for a day 1 lynch. Was I wrong?

[Nachomamma8]

We were upset at him earlier for pushing without having a case and avoiding etc. etc. but I thought we both came to the conclusion sometime earlier that he's probably not the right place to focus for a day 1 lynch. Was I wrong?

I got upset earlier for him avoiding questions and pushing without a case But I haven't really considered the D1 lynch thing.

Why wouldn't he be a good person to focus on for the D1 lynch?

he broke. generally you give people a bit of room when they break, and he doesn't seem like the type of person to ate to exclusion of all else as scum. he sure as hell hasn't done it in any of his other scumgames.

[Nachomamma8]

Also I lied cos its an alt, I didn't want people knwoing

This is why you said you lied:

I haven't played any games with you. My main account has. This is this accounts first game

The two quotes aren't anything close to consistent.

[Nachomamma8]

not what you said. you just tried to frame it like you weren't lying.

[Nachomamma8]

so what do you think of the rest of the game in the meantime?

[Nachomamma8]

It's just flown me by, pretty sure gaiden is scum though

that was to PB.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you still think Shadoweh is town?

and what do you think about Llamarble because I think that he could be scum, I'm not entirely fond of any of his posts thus far and 508 doesn't strike me as very helpful to anything

I think Shadoweh is town still although that townread slowly erodes.

Llamarble could be scum but probably isn't.

[Nachomamma8]

I am not impressed with Llamarble's post, but Nacho is apparently.

Llamarble has a process, this is a step in it. The next ones are much harder to fake as scum, I promise.

[Nachomamma8]

There you are! What do you think of what you missed?

[Nachomamma8]

KURIBO

[Nachomamma8]

Purple Shoe is annoying. I wish that was an alignment tell.

shoe is the love of my life when town but here he's a dirty fucking scumbag. go ahead and vote him, it might make you feel better.

marble and tammy

has marble been as boring in the QT as he's been in thread?

Or it's because you're scum.

Unvote
Vote: Purple Shoe

kuribo is town then?

Anyway, since it's now out in the open, my role PM talks about Albert extensively and I've been wondering whether this means anything re: kuribo's alignment. Thoughts?

i don't think it does unless llamarble thinks it does and is town.

[Nachomamma8]

The last 4 pages are entirely useless so I'm mostly going to ignore them. Mutley, could you give us content or reads?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho are you sure about the shoe?

pretty sure at this point. there is a tiny chance that he's playing this game specifically to make me scumread him, but mutley's not that much of an ass so that's a tinfoil worry.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho are you sure about the shoe?

pretty sure at this point. there is a tiny chance that he's playing this game specifically to make me scumread him, but mutley's not that much of an ass so that's a tinfoil worry.

What do you think of his/her blacklisting comment and all AtE spill?

the blacklisting comment was something that surprised me quite a bit and the ate spill doesn't really look like his scumgame, but.

What is it that makes you feel I am scum?

usually when you're detached from a game you either ignore it, or check in every once in a while and post something prod dodgy. here you BETTLEJUICED it up, you gave plenty of content on why you were frustrated with kuribo, trolling kuribo, but nothing like the mutley that I'm used to. why would I be townreading you this game?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: are you seriously townreading mutley after WWE? I trusted you there and I can see now what you were saying, and I also followed a newbie where he trolled hard and Thor got him mislynched D1, and I'm just not seeing any of that here.

i haven't townread him this game, no.

[Nachomamma8]

appearing when someone says your name.

[Nachomamma8]

This feels like that Mara wagon in 514 all over again

Doesn't feel right

how sure are you Nacho, sure enough to risk a D1 lynch?

This isn't really a Mara wagon. Mara was a replacement who got lynched immediately upon replacing in. She would've worked with us if we were around longer, but this is more Purple Shoe not really working with me and then telling me reasons why I was having issues with him earlier (detached from the game) when he's at L-1 and we're pretty close to lynching him.

[Nachomamma8]

Why did you find it strange? What scum motivation could it possibly have?

[Nachomamma8]

hell no llamarble isn't town. not anymore.

[Nachomamma8]

Pedit: I think I prefer Shadow over marble

this isn't happening probably

[Nachomamma8]

although shadoweh and desperado do work better as a team.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Desperado

i'm probably gonna vote this until it dies.

[Nachomamma8]

What's your updated read on the Shoe? I'm honestly getting cold feet on lynching that slot knowing that it's Muttley because I remember him being really useless in Open 501 and some other game where he was town (need to look it up).

yeah i'm getting cold feet on lynching shoes.

I don't really feel a Desperado wagon either. I don't know, I just feel like I have a severe case of the bads in this game where everyone looks town (I've become literally Tammy circa Day 3/4).

but this I don't understand so much. desperado can look town if you look at him sideways and squinty-eyed, but otherwise he's pretty much just scum. and if he's not and llamarble isn't doing amazing things by tomorrow, we can probably kill the fuck out of him without a tear lost anywhere.

You still think Generic scum after all of the things that have happened? What gives

this

There is no way in fuck am I lynching, or even voting Peacebringer

VOTE: Shadoweh <--- would love for this to get backed up

i'll back up a llamarble vote maybe but not this, sorry.

[Nachomamma8]

Why not Nacho?

And yes I am still scum-reading Generic and I'm getting tired of waiting for him to do pro-town things

shadoweh looks pretty damn town and I have no idea why you are scumreading her.

Hey nacho Im not listening to my initial gut like I should recently - you call the shots!


Who

Who should we pick <3

I still pick Desperado. Llamarble isn't normally a good D1 pick.

Strange how you are still looking for anything to make people look worse, without getting yourself to involved yet, people are reading you as town for a melt-down that is fantastically null

you don't think the comments he had about his scumgame were genuine?

Nacho: Whenever you decide you want to get scum today I'm keeping your seat on the Shoe wagon warm. He's still scum and I can't believe we're letting him get away with it. I'm not surprised that mutley disappeared again as soon as the pressure was off his slot.

who are your other scum options?

Maybe it's Shadoweh Peacebringer and Nacho?

probably not, no.

I just don't see what you or Llamarble see, I really don't. I even reread Desperado's ISO just now and the only case against him I can see is "he doesn't look as town as most of the other people in this game".

that sounds like a pretty solid case to me!

Nacho you better get back here and explain why shadoweh and desperado work well as a team

because shadoweh wasn't pushing desperado at that time.

and why is Shadoweh not happening, exactly. Gut? or what? you're not being very transparent here. I'm disappointed

call it gut if you want but it's mostly because she's town and the case on her is shit.

[Nachomamma8]

i'll also happily switch back to shoe.

[Nachomamma8]

his conflict with kuribo was good and cool and stuff but if he's only gonna come in the game when people piss him off then i don't even want him

[Nachomamma8]

i have no time bert. and that wasn't a useless as either alignment therefore should be lynched.
that was a not willing to work with town in any respect so i'm not going to cry tears if he goes.

[Nachomamma8]

No, Mara and Nacho are using the "I'm busy and overgamed" schtick and its lazy and convenient

busy and overgamed?
busy. i'm trying to make some $$$, silly.

[Nachomamma8]

FUCK I JUST GOT SOUP ON MY SCREEN THANKS BERT
;[

[Nachomamma8]

I'd be happier if you voted Desperado

[Nachomamma8]

he's not the best lynch, no.
tammy and empire need to start voting when we have under a day before deadline.

[Nachomamma8]

You're leaning Desperado now, right? Put it down, tell me how it feels.

[Nachomamma8]

Your blacklisted for being he biggest dick I've ever played with and i havent blacklisted anyone yet that's how bad you are and I let a lot slide. When I flip town you will see it is solely cos you are a dick and nothing else. I refuse to fall to your desires of how you want me to play because you are just a dick. Thanks

the blacklist tell is a pretty reliable towntell for most people.

[Nachomamma8]

but empire if you would like to argue with desperado being town, which of the following makes him town (because it's all he did this game)?

making a townblock then not working with the townblock for the rest of the game?
two major pushes of the day being gaiden and purple shoe?
townreading generic early?

hmmmm...

[Nachomamma8]

the vote feels about as icky as I expected.

It doesn't feel good to me either

keep the faith

[Nachomamma8]

nacho - did you answer my question about your updated read on 'marble?

probably not. marble's getting a d1 pass from me at the moment because he's extremely worth keeping around if he's town.

[Nachomamma8]

Pedit: why is town reading me scummy? Things like this show I'm being prepped as a mislynch weapon, either to mislynch me or use interactions with me to mislynch others.

it's not scummy. in fact, it's literally the only townie thing desperado's done all game.
but it isn't enough for me to keep him alive for today.

[Nachomamma8]

i don't have a scumread on him either.

[Nachomamma8]

Is Shoe really about to escape by ATE and lurking?

You're OK letting Desperado "escape" because he didn't AtE, right?

[Nachomamma8]

Your reason for bringing Generic into the townblock was that "it looked like townflail". You brought Garantula into the townblock for god knows what reason. You brought Peacebringer into the townblock for "genuine looking questioning". After this initial push, you made no additional effort to sort people out, you kept the same reads and continued pushing easy lynches.

Well, I'm still a bit suspicious about peace based on bald eagle replacing out. He's still active on site and signing up for games. He was scum reading nacho and replaced out after being questioned on his reads. I'm worried about that. I know he's new and could get intimidated either way, but it seems like an odd thing so early. And peace came in and immediately latched onto generic and didn't say anything about anyone else. If generic is scum, I could see that from a partner trying to make sure they were on the right side of the argument. Generic has reacted to peace a bit more calmly than he's reacted to some, and if generic is scum I can see that interaction as partnership based. This I'm going off of the way generic treated my suspicions of him in the red wedding as opposed to others. If generic isn't scum then this falls apart some, but I'm still concerned about the replace out thing.

I have no idea how you could read this paragraph as about peace if you were actually reading what Tammy was saying.

I feel like he took the antagonism too far, and I feel like the tone of his post was geared more towards pushing Generic's buttons than getting him to step his game up.

This is a weak reason to call someone scum and you didn't even engage him about it.

kuribo replaces SXTLHGaiden.

This is good, kuribo's an open book

When your scumread got replaced and a bigger threat took his place, you backed the fuck off.

Nacho: are you seriously townreading mutley after WWE? I trusted you there and I can see now what you were saying, and I also followed a newbie where he trolled hard and Thor got him mislynched D1, and I'm just not seeing any of that here.

i haven't townread him this game, no.

Oh, I think I misinterpeted #825

you thought i was townreading mutley when i wasn't.
but now that i'm reading him as town, this reaction is pretty fucking strange because you didn't react this was when people in your townblock were being scumread (namely you didn't reach out to mara to stop her from scumreading generic).

not to mention the only time you're really working with me is when you're trying to reignite my passion for a purple shoe lynch and not exploring any of my other reads. so overall, not that psyched about your play this game.

[Nachomamma8]

My reason for Generic town was that his disposition in a 1v1 was noticeably different from what he did in RW with Metal Sonic.

and then you noted that he was against someone he had a history with, so it'd probably be different regardless of alignment.

I didn't reach out to Mala to stop scumreading generic because that would have been interfering with their process. Don't you think it's better if they sort each other organically?

no. 30 pages is enough time to sort, if they don't do it by then, they probably aren't going to do it today.

Why are you reading mutley as town now?

take a wild guess.

[Nachomamma8]

Mara*.

[Nachomamma8]

get reading to cry bert
i would say i'll grab you some tissues and post a picture but pictures from me are usually reserved to mollie

[Nachomamma8]

ready*

[Nachomamma8]

there's 20 hours until deadline. you should be a real good friend and vote desperado.

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY

[Nachomamma8]

i want you to take a vote and i want you to throw it down on desperado right this instant

[Nachomamma8]

The real question is why are you currently voting for qwints? That wagon isn't going to go through in 20 hours, time to start compromising.

[Nachomamma8]

CLAIM

[Nachomamma8]

Llamarble makes me feel odd because people who don't know me don't 'normally' use me as an example of someone with high scumhunting energies and as an example of someone towntelling

i didn't think you were scum when we started playing together
i'd expect llamarble to pick up on that as well.

[Nachomamma8]

Deadline is in less than a day, you don't start a new wagon if you don't have the momentum for it. Sometimes you have to compromise, go with what the best lynch you can get is, trust your town reads and hope for the best.

There's still time/support for a Shoe lynch.

come on desperado gimmie that VT claim so I can lynch it
====[]

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho you don't think that desperados reaching out to me about his reads seemed townish? I just liked the "I'm trying to figure out which read to talk Tammy out of thing" :/

that was really cool until he never tried to talk you out of them.

[Nachomamma8]

what do you think of desperado's behavior near death, Mara?

[Nachomamma8]

And I'm not claiming until someone not on the wagon asks for it.

hey mara this is your cue

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't need to because she hasn't made a push on Generic or Peace since then.

You don't just interact with your townblocks when they are doing things you don't like.

[Nachomamma8]

Nope.

[Nachomamma8]

He's calm, cool, and collected and looks like he doesn't really care

I also think him not claiming until asked is townish and I don't really want to touch him

calm cool and collected is no more of a town tell than freaking out and falling apart is a scum tell.
we've all learned this several times.

[Nachomamma8]

Your blacklisted for being he biggest dick I've ever played with and i havent blacklisted anyone yet that's how bad you are and I let a lot slide. When I flip town you will see it is solely cos you are a dick and nothing else. I refuse to fall to your desires of how you want me to play because you are just a dick. Thanks

the blacklist tell is a pretty reliable towntell for most people.

hey desp why do you scumread this?

[Nachomamma8]

or where you can answer my question.

[Nachomamma8]

WHOMP WHOMP

[Nachomamma8]

Bert, qwints seems an awful lot like he did in Scumhunter, doesn't he?

[Nachomamma8]

Shadoweh still gives me bad feelings too, but Nacho wants her alive for whatever reason. :/

not anymore.

Vote: Shadoweh

[Nachomamma8]

I think it is my lot to be lynchbait whenever I play with you guys. The only time someone consistently likes me is when they're scum.

Why do you think Purple Shoe is scum?

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: qwints

I still like this read and is one 'marble and I agreed on in the neighborhood. Bye Llamarble

Why did Marble find qwints scum?

Rereading through that thread, he talks about how he rages at people to get reactions, so it's really possible what I was reading as fake rage ala fortnight with the shoe was fake but not the fake scum type but the fake town type to get reactions.

I don't think that's a good reason to call kuribo town. His fake rage is essentially a reaction test and he's aware that he does it as town and thus it's not that hard for him to replicate it as scum.

But 'marble did ask inte to full claim in the neighborhood and he didn't.

Why not, inte?

He really suspects Shadoweh based on a lack of town tells and thinks that her showdown with Bert could just be her making a stand to look town.

Not to mention that she was an early voter on Desperado but didn't actually push that a whole lot.

Okay, but when we talked about Desperado in the neighborhood we came to the conclusion that he was an sk cuz he was death aligned with death. If that's the case, then nobody is clear from that.

FakeGod's standard colors are red for Mafia, blue for town. He changed the colors for Assassins and Guards, so I'm guessing he wouldn't make an SK dark red. I'm leaning towards Desp being group-scum at the moment.

I actually like this theory because it means Desperado trying to lynch Shoe doesn't exonerate the lurking bag of suck who clearly isn't paying attention to why he can't just keep lurking.

What's your scumteam if Desperado is an SK?

Yes, but he also has a competent scumgame apparently. I haven't seen him/her as scum.

Qwints replacing in as scum, opening post:

VOTE: Amrun

Here's how I'm feeling right now:

Town reads: Elyse; Majiffy; Mollie; AP
Scum reads: Amrun; Grim

That leaves: wisdom, enomis and venmar.

Elyse was an early townread (given hindsight) due to the jokey "obv-town" comment on NS. There was no reason for her to draw attention like she did if she were scum. She's also a critical part of the NS switch. She's town.

Majiffy's early drunken challenge seems overconfident town majiffy to me, and he's town for being first on the final version of the NS wagon

Mollie's town because Majiffy says so.

Amrun's early game theorizing came off as scummy. He hammered SC early on, and then avoided the NS wagon while voicing very limited support

I think we should lynch ns if he doesn't provide content today.

I don't actually want to lynch him over AP. I want to use the threat of lynching him to force him to produce content. But if I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is, it's an empty threat. And the thing is, if he's not going to provide content at all, it's better to lynch him now than later even if he IS Town.

The sad thing is is that he probably is town because usually as scum he puts in some token effort.

I love NS but in a 4 scum night less game we can't afford dead weight.

In fact, Safety dance has produced SOMETHING, and what he has produced I lean scum on.

But ns hasn't posted anything at all but prod dodges.

and then claims credit with:

challenge the monkeys

Well, that's why we lynch ns. He is too hard to read to keep around very long.

Looks different enough where I'm not going to repeat the same mistake I made in Scumhunter Speed.

I also wouldn't be alive if Shadoweh was scum so...

Llamarble-town is still a significant threat that may mean that she took a shot at him over you.

[Nachomamma8]

Hmm...still such a quick turnaround on Shadoweh, that it worries me to hear you say this

Why is that?

[Nachomamma8]

bert did you just hammer him

[Nachomamma8]

nope just making sure you're paying attention.
who were my main scumspects yesterday?

[Nachomamma8]

I think Shadoweh is town still although that townread slowly erodes.

although shadoweh and desperado do work better as a team.

I started scumreading Shadoweh around this point. Then, I reread Desperado, scumread on him solidified. Then Llamarble turned town as fuck, you started getting paranoid about me, and I started endorsing Shadoweh town because Desperado was already sorted scum and a flashwagon on Shadoweh instead of Desperado (when we had been pushing Desperado all day) when no one could come up with a reason why he was town would have been a bad idea.

[Nachomamma8]

Because you didn't want a flashwagon on Shadoweh? Really?

Mhm. It also has the added bonus of Mara explaining her Shadoweh read a little more than she would otherwise.

You said you would back up a llamarble vote "maybe," even though that would be a flash wagon too. And you just said you didn't want to wagon Shadoweh because it would be a flash wagon and not enough support? But then you say you would be willing to vote llamarble which is essentially the same thing...

No, I started endorsing Shadoweh as town in order to stop a flashwagon. I was willing to vote llamarble then because he wasn't really looking that town yet, and he was a better lynch than Shadoweh because a Llamarble flip would at least help sort out Desperado.

[Nachomamma8]

It doesn't make sense, unless he was super afraid of drawing a D1 NK and wanted to hide his true read...which is not likely with Tammy, Empire, Llamrarble being in the game to say the least

I'm never afraid of death.
Near deadline, I sometimes DO go into "just fucking lynch him already" mode and tell people what they need to hear to make that happen. I won't lie about reads, I never lied, but I did exaggerate. I was fully aware of possibilities of Shadoweh-scum, but those were possibilities that we weren't discussing at that point in time.

[Nachomamma8]

What did you think about my other reasons though?

Still thinking about them.

[Nachomamma8]

neither are you >.>

[Nachomamma8]

this is definitely the worst softclaim ever

[Nachomamma8]

like literally the worst.
i am sorry for being the one to break but holy fucking shit

[Nachomamma8]

I want you to look at the choice words I use when defending Qwints, look at the strength of my defense, compared to the D1 defense of my sisters and ask yourself how one could get that strength of a read

ROLE INFORMATION

[Nachomamma8]

I want you to look at the choice words I use when defending Qwints, look at the strength of my defense, compared to the D1 defense of my sisters and ask yourself how one could get that strength of a read

ROLE INFORMATION

THANK YOU AT LEAST ONE FUCKING PLAYER IN THIS GAME ACTUALLY CAN READ BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES

ANYONE CAN READ BETWEEN THE LIINES. I. DON'T. TRUST. YOUR. NEIGHBORHODD.

why aren't you voting shadoweh with me

[Nachomamma8]

And if you're a mason neighborhood there's no reason not to out it, because we can lynch through the rest, good game.

they are not a mason neighborhood
mara has an innocent on qwints

[Nachomamma8]

Empire, why are you townreading Shadoweh?

[Nachomamma8]

I was actually feeling pretty confident with my reads circa ten minutes ago and now there's an entire dynamic that I haven't paid enough attention to that's making me second guess things. Moronic.

Do you still scumread Shadoweh?

[Nachomamma8]

Generic could you be more specific in how our incredibly overblown chensawing is fake? More specifically, could you specify which of the like five people doing this is 'off' or would you like to stick with SOMETHIN FEELS WEIRD WELP BYE EVERYONE SEE YOU TOMORROW

Empty questions with no real followup are always a problem to me.

Im back! Generic is still town on this page, are people still voting him or did you have an epiphany while I was asleep?
Gonna outright state that I don't like Bert's posting, or what I'm seeing of the attacks on Generic on this page either. I know this is ~*situational*~ but most early vanilla claims come from real live vanillas who think they're worthless.

Early strong read on Generic-town is fine, using Generic-town to attack other people isn't really so fine.

post #275 is the same kind of iioa noise as earlier on this page. 'timing etc scream scum' but 'personal life not sure'. You even come to the realization the argument is a waste of time, so why do you keep coming back to it if it's just letting you repeat the same thing over and over? If you don't want to vote Generic and don't want the pile-on to continue YOU SHOULDN'T BE ENCOURAGING IT BY DREDGING IT UP AGAIN.

The attack on Bert for iioa, noise is sort of lazy and pretty bad, especially since she was townreading Generic as hard as she was for AtEing.

Also here's a thought about UNFAKEABLEWALLPOSTS.EXE Empire's analysis is based on examining how people acted in other games, I'm not sure if he's ever honestly tried to but if there was anything that could be faked it would be a wall that tells you a bunch of townies are acting like their town selves and a bunch of people he doesn't have meta on and that people hate are acting scummy. I honestly believe you just saw a huge wall post and went "WOW LOOK AT ALL THOSE WORDS! IT MUST LOOK LIKE TOWN!" because no one ever reads them.

This is spreading paranoia for no real reason. It doesn't look like a paranoid twitch because Shadoweh doesn't actually hold any belief that Empire is scum, she just says "hey empire could probably fake this really town looking wall "

My case is that all your suspicions are either without attaching your own reasoning towards scumminess or that you write what a person is like and add "AND THAT';S SCUMMY" beside it. Kind of like what you're doing in response to me, except you're just quoting things I'm saying and adding LOL to the end of them. Also, Nacho is not everyone. He may be Super High School Level Innocent Child this game but that doesn't mean he's right.
PS My question to Tammy is what she thinks of my case Superdog, not something about her, and she clearly didn't notice. What that has to do with anything is another mystery I look forward to you solving.

This attack is weak as hell and mostly based on playstyle. I have no idea why she would completely ignore my thoughts on Bert when I've played with him more than anyone else here, but instead wants Tammy's opinion. That seems to me like she's trying to drum up support for the lynch instead of actually sorting scum out.

You probably didn't have to quote the entire thing you know. You said earlier you were giving Bert a pass because of his fishing playstyle. Does this seriously look like someone who is fishing for scumreads instead of trying to make me punch my monitor harder to you?

And now trying to reframe her Bert case towards "Bert is trying to frustrate me" is just a bunch of bullshit.

##Vote: Desperado

and this is my favorite part. look at all this gorgeous desperado interactions in shadoweh's posts:

Spoiler: How to Soft Distance with your Scumbuddy:

I haven't finished rereading yet, but Desperado what is your problem with me and what about anything makes it sound like I'm scum with Generic? It's neat that you brought up that quote because I have no idea where your pot shots at me are coming from. I was going to say something already when I noticed you left me out of the mystical 'townblock' (which is a concept that needs to die) but you've upgraded it to 'so why aren't you voting me' territory.

Gonna read if Desperado is still a huge jerk before putting down a big girl vote.

Desperado: That doesn't answer my question at all. Why did YOU think that I was scum with Generic? You don't just leave someone out of your fave town buddies then question the people who are town reading them about what's up with them unless YOU think there's something wrong with them. And none of those reasons you gave answer my question, unless you mean how you misconstrued something Tammy said, which again doesn't answer why you were pairing us to begin with.

Desperado: I find townie voting blocks to be offensive in general, and frankly I'm tired of being arbitrarily cut out of them because I'm not cool enough. Did you at least formulate a read on me after those questions or are you taking T/E at their word?

I'm not as sure about Desperado either but I think that's partially because of his mix-up attacking me and I've been told I shouldn't vote with my annoyance.

and all of that was posted before the vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm confused as fuck too and I'm thinking about what our options are here. I didn't even contemplate the Desperado-as-SK angle which just adds a wrench into this.

Empire, if you thinking that Shadoweh is town has anything to do with A) Mara surviving the night, or B) Desperado's fakeclaim, you're gonna get a very disapproving look. If you have any other reads then I'll and be happy.

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY

[Nachomamma8]

SHADOWEH

[Nachomamma8]

??????????????????????????????

[Nachomamma8]

now, i trust mara when she says "I have role related information that qwints is town". you should too.
she wouldn't say it unless she knew 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.

so she has to be scum before qwints is scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: projectmatt

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: inte

[Nachomamma8]

she has role related information that qwints is town.
meaning if she is town, qwints is too.

[Nachomamma8]

no because shadoweh will flip scum
it's as easy as inte or matt, and empire should be able to read matt but i sort of lean inte right now

[Nachomamma8]

guys
i trust mara

[Nachomamma8]

i'm ok with a massclaim, i suppose.
i'll hold my setup speculation until my turn.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm just a lowly servant boy.

Matt goes next!

[Nachomamma8]

Hi Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

I have absolutely no idea why you're voting me. I can't defend against not dropping my town tell yet unless you tell me what it is.

[Nachomamma8]

Then I'll drop it for you.

[Nachomamma8]

Which one?

[Nachomamma8]

ok bert i will talk to tammy

TAMMY WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME

[Nachomamma8]

she won't that's why she's being unhelpful

[Nachomamma8]

OH YEAH I DO TOO
one scum in each neighborhood, one scum in the servants
which is why i lean inte but matty is being so scummy :[

[Nachomamma8]

shadoweh if you flip town you're gonna shatter my heart

[Nachomamma8]

shadoweh why are you so lurky at the moment? if i was slated to die, I would be screaming my lungs off.

[Nachomamma8]

oh

UNVOTE:

I still suspect nacho, but I don't want to take the chance of him to be lynched before we're done with this in case he's not.

i didn't notice i was at L-1. people probably shouldn't be brought to L-1 with shadoweh sitting on the shoe wagon.

[Nachomamma8]

i was at L-2*

[Nachomamma8]

It's not like you guys were listening to me before. I don't expect you to be any more receptive now. Besides, you're already moving towards lynching who I want lynched. I don't have anything insightful to add beyond that not having to read anything Bert has said all day is a blessing.

^^
confirmed scum

now, tell me that i am being lazy because I am scum and I am afraid to fake content after bussing two of my buddies
tell me I am not being lazy because we have the game in the bag and this paranoia will be completely unnecessary when all scum are flipped and the game is over and done

[Nachomamma8]

imo are inte and matt/gargant

buddy's probably in here i think
shadoweh jumped on confirming gargant as town for ongoing games discussion
matt called kuribo town like he was afraid
and what does a scumbag do when death is imminent?
distance, distance, distance

[Nachomamma8]

tell me how you are doing protown things right now

if so explain what those things are

i'm waiting for shit to happen just like everybody else!
right now i'm establishing that shadoweh is scum as fuck because she went white as a sheet and quiet as fuck when she heard she gt poisoned and pulled the whole "my family poisoned me to get my inheritance!" jokes instead of "hey fuck you" and paranoia and usual reactions to getting poisoned

[Nachomamma8]

matt called kuribo town like he was afraid

desperado*

[Nachomamma8]

you arent making amends in case you go tonight

if i die tonight it is because scumteam is trolling

[Nachomamma8]

i fucking hate that matt has two of his scumreads confirmed town
and then is like "welp, i'm not doing shit"

i had two of my scumreads flip scum pretty much
so yeah i'm gonna be like "welp, i did my share"

[Nachomamma8]

and one of his scumreads is POISONED
and he doesn't even follow up to see if he's right
he doesn't have a reaction
he's either a robot or he's scum

[Nachomamma8]

i earlier wanted inte-lurker because inte-lurker
now i lean towards matt
but really i just want lurkfucks to give the game what it needs to move forward

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Matt

OK. We'll lynch him, then.

[Nachomamma8]

Are you lying or just messed up on the facts? I replaced in after Desperado was lynched.

You replaced the wrong name.

apart from trying to work out the confusion and read into other players by scumhunting whilst also boringly waiting for other people to claim so I can get even more reads and decide who I want to lynch

When Marangal claimed town lovers with qwints, that should have shook your world. But the only thing we've seen since this happened is asking Tammy if I'm scum (cool, not really useful), asking Empire who is scum (cool, again, not useful), got tempted to vote me (why?), and gave Empire your old meta. That doesn't look like

..So? One of my scumreads is poisoned and I'm going to find out very soon if I am right. How do you expect me to follow up? Read through an ISO of a confirmed dying player I've already read through?

What do you think of Shadoweh's behavior since she's been poisoned?
I followed up! Most people did that.

[Nachomamma8]

Are you lying or just messed up on the facts? I replaced in after Desperado was lynched.

You replaced the wrong name.

apart from trying to work out the confusion and read into other players by scumhunting whilst also boringly waiting for other people to claim so I can get even more reads and decide who I want to lynch

When Marangal claimed town lovers with qwints, that should have shook your world. But the only thing we've seen since this happened is asking Tammy if I'm scum (cool, not really useful), asking Empire who is scum (cool, again, not useful), got tempted to vote me (why?), and gave Empire your old meta. That doesn't look like you are a townie attempting to reanalyze things, that looks like you are scum looking for mislynches.

..So? One of my scumreads is poisoned and I'm going to find out very soon if I am right. How do you expect me to follow up? Read through an ISO of a confirmed dying player I've already read through?

What do you think of Shadoweh's behavior since she's been poisoned?

[Nachomamma8]

If you actually read my ISO, I was both confused and thrown off by Maragnal's claim and eventually decided to at least accept that Maragnal was town.

Yeah but there should have been a point where you went "okay, they are both town" and tried to find scum in the remaining players. You didn't. That's the point.

At the moment though, as I previously said, I am waiting on the remaining claims before I actually put a lot of effort into deciding who I want lynched today.

Massclaim's done! Go.

Again - I have no interest in getting into a fight with you here but your rationale is very disappointing and weak.

OK.

why are you leaning more towards Matt over Inte?

matt's scum, inte lurks.

[Nachomamma8]

I think your assumptions of Shadoweh-town are bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Stuff tomorrow after school.

This day has turned into a shit ton of waiting.

[Nachomamma8]

For those of you who have played with Bert, does he regularly play and lynch with his gut?

Yes.

Nacho, who is my partner? Shadoweh?

Considering I've been calling her scum all day, that's a fair assumption.

[Nachomamma8]

He also seems to be more aggressive about his lurking in those scum games. Here he seems like he actually just doesn't give two shits.

[Nachomamma8]

im still here are we massclaiming im not caught up sitll (apologies)

well i suppose i can see why you guys are angry at me

vs

can you guys quit complaining? i'm filling an inactive spot. good vibes

theres been almost 2 pages a day since the game started and last couple weeks of the semester take precedence

deal with it

[Nachomamma8]

Partially self preservation and partially due to my belief that he could easily be scum.

so you don't have any scumreads, then.

[Nachomamma8]

yeah sure i'll swing to inte

[Nachomamma8]

your reads are "oh inte is scum and he's a probably partner of Shoe/Nacho/Bert who I all scumread", which sucks. your options are WIDE open, try limiting them a little.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: inte

[Nachomamma8]

get that projectmatt lynch i been dreaming about

[Nachomamma8]

:'(

[Nachomamma8]

i'm pretty ok lynching inte if matt is gonna yell at me

[Nachomamma8]

This is going to be another situation like last time where the last time where the vote I put down is not going to move.

if you ever put it down
seriously put the vote down on inte
shadoweh had the opportunity to quickhammer and didn't
this means either:
A) Shadoweh is town and thus inte is definitely scum
B) Shadoweh is scum and didn't want to quickhammer her buddy
C) Shadoweh is scum but both inte/matt are scum so she wanted the matt mislynch if she could grab it

[Nachomamma8]

bert it's time to start clearing out suspects

[Nachomamma8]

he just made it up himself. If it's the latter, one of us in the Neighborhood would have told him that such a claim was impossible (because all Wingates are supposed to have access to the QT and he didn't).

but how the hell would he know the monthname Wingate thing unless he had a buddy who was a wingate with a monthname?

(sorry i thought i responded to this earlier but apparently i was doing too much LSD as of late, fried my brain a little)

[Nachomamma8]

empire you two move so

slow

[Nachomamma8]

oh. that sucks.

[Nachomamma8]

BERT
IF WE LYNCH INTE, MATT WILL BE POISONED
IF WE LYNCH MATT, INTE WILL BE POISONED

[Nachomamma8]

OR WE'LL JUST LYNCH THEM TOMORROW

[Nachomamma8]

I think this is why people were townreading garantula/projectmatt

he was scum in that game so knew i was town

[Nachomamma8]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SHADOWEH
I hope we get you to see your scumflip on your birthday! Consider it a present for betraying your family!

[Nachomamma8]

If shadoweh is town, I have a hard time seeing a scum team without nacho.

If shadoweh is scum, the I have a hard time seeing a scum team with nacho.

I don't know if I agree with my last night self on clearing nacho if shadoweh is scum.

uggggh

[Nachomamma8]

I think this is why people were townreading garantula/projectmatt

he was scum in that game so knew i was town

Right but I think the idea is that if he were scum why would he make those string of posts?

i um sort of gathered that
the him being scum thing adds credibility

[Nachomamma8]

To be fair, she's not really missing a whole lot.

i played falkor in a school play once
it was awesome

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, shadoweh's flipping scum.

COLOR ME SURPRISED.
MAN I TOTALLY CAN'T BELIEVE SHADOWEH IS SCUM.
CRAZY.

[Nachomamma8]

Dude nacho as a bodyguard protected scum two nights in a row in your game, he can't say shit.

really cos i'm pretty sure i saved redcoyote from your tunneling ass that game
and saved the fuck out of that slot from mislynch because you chucklefucks woulda lynched me if not for my crazy amounts of charisma

[Nachomamma8]

Dude nacho as a bodyguard protected scum two nights in a row in your game, he can't say shit.

really cos i'm pretty sure i saved redcoyote from your tunneling ass that game
and saved the fuck out of that slot from mislynch because you chucklefucks woulda lynched me if not for my crazy amounts of charisma

[Nachomamma8]

really because i'm pretty sure there's a quote in #YOLOville where i call you easy to manipulate
in order to pull you off redcoyote?

[Nachomamma8]

i mean maybe not
my memory is a little hazy some days

[Nachomamma8]

anyways

V/LA until Tuesday

Hopefully gonna be back monday but you never know.

[Nachomamma8]

swagtown yoloville, they all blend together

[Nachomamma8]

tammy i am sorry you are sick
but there is nothing that i can do except show you that i like you by teasing you
i only tease those i like

[Nachomamma8]

i know right

[Nachomamma8]

is there a reason we're still waiting on voting?
do the stars have to align first?

[Nachomamma8]

HEY EMPIRE HOW ARE YOU FEELING TODAY

[Nachomamma8]

<<<SMUG

that's how this guy is feeling

[Nachomamma8]

I am sick too tammy. i know how you feel.