Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Llamarble

Old habits die hard

Muahahaha <3

I was hoping you guys would all daymasonize again but Empire's scum

I wanna lynch this guy today though VOTE: SXTLHGaiden

[Llamarble]

Sorry guys, I wasn't very sentient this weekend. Catching up.

[Llamarble]

At the very least, prove your worth. You say you need "4 more votes" but don't you really only need 3?
Either way, AtE is spewing from your posts, at least in my eyes. And, tbh, i'm not sure why people even use it. i mean, isn't it something people only do when grasping at straws. You make it seem like your lynch is inevitable when it is fact not. We still have nearly 2 weeks to sort this out, yet you have already resigned yourself to this fate. It's sad that a newbie like me has to tell you to stop the damn defeatist attitude. I see you have 2 options here.
1. Vote yourself.
2. Cut the crap and actually start scum hunting.

This guy probably isn't scum unless the guy he's talking about is. And even then this would still be a kinda towny.

[Llamarble]

I am not claiming I

always

spot you as scum, but I am claiming that I've never read you as scum, when you are town. That doesn't mean I havn't read you as town when you were scum, because I have like, Nishi's game.

I was kinda winding up to vote mara, but the above isn't very common from scum

[Llamarble]

I skimmed and now am ISOing some folks; I promise I'll increase in usefulness as the day goes on.

[Llamarble]

Scum generally like when town are demoralized because it makes them play worse, so I find peptalks a decent towntell.
Timing I don't have a grip on yet, but I'll try and find a better chunk of time tomorrow.

For some reason I think that town talk about their reading success rate on a given player more often than scum, but maybe that's crazy.

I sound like scum so far don't I >_>

I guess my town not fully engaged game is kinda similar to my scumgame.
Anyhow I'll make myself useful soon

[Llamarble]

Scum generally like when town are demoralized because it makes them play worse, so I find peptalks a decent towntell.
Timing I don't have a grip on yet, but I'll try and find a better chunk of time tomorrow.

For some reason I think that town talk about their reading success rate on a given player more often than scum, but maybe that's crazy.

I sound like scum so far don't I >_>

I guess my town not fully engaged game is kinda similar to my scumgame.
Anyhow I'll make myself useful soon

I actually thought you were a newb after reading your post, and then I realized you aren't.

Why are you admitting to us that your town game when you're not IN IT can be similar to your scumgame. You're telling us this why? Why should we spare you

I found it interesting that my posts felt similar to my play in White Flag. You should "spare me" because I'll probably make us win once I get going.

I'm not happy somebody already claimed before I got properly engaged, but that's my fault so meh.
Time to vet out this generic wagon.

[Llamarble]

Dude only has 4 votes, so looks like him claiming this early is his fault not mine.
Also he doesn't look like scum.

[Llamarble]

I don't know why Mara is a collective townread.

Desperado probably needs to be Chaos Dunked.

VOTE: Desperado

[Llamarble]

I've got friends from out of town visiting until Friday, but I'll put some time in tomorrow while they take their younger sister on college visits.
Thank you for your patience Empire <3

[Llamarble]

How is it an appeal to emotion when I'm NOT APPEALING my lynch?

It's perfectly acceptable for someone to accuse me of ducking trying to alter the events of a fucking game by bringing my personal life into it? That would sit right with you would it?
And your flippant remark about cancer was a out as no Iso as eating vomit.
I would have forced a mod kill if it wasnt for bad sportsmanship and the last lingering shred of pride I want to hold onto (and its bad enough I'm ruining fakegods game as I am without making it worse for him)...

And I just said I referenced mara even if not by name in post 63. To me that's not lying, just because you didn't pick up on her voting for nacho and me referencing those attacking nacho doesn't mean it didn't happen.

How do you force a modkill without claiming scum?
(this is not an invitation to demonstrate)

[Llamarble]

Llamarble is leaning town but seems like easy lynchbait.

Nacho can tell you what happens to scum who try and lynch me <3

Desperado has been very cool, calm and collected. Even when pressured or pressed for expanding on his points he has obliged... [] he seems to be town in his mindset.

Good observation; questionable deduction.

Tammy and Generic and Empire have all townsploded at different points, so that's helpful.

It's definitely not sheeping if I don't even know another vote has been placed.

I AM CURRENT. Well, on events more than who is scum, but that's step 1.

Town:
Llamarble
Generic
Tammy
Nacho
Empire
Bert
Garantula

Mara
PB
Gaiden

Purpleshoething
Shadoweh
Desperado

[Llamarble]

Alright time to go through some people in more detail.

Empire / Tammy:
I expect both of these players to try and fake the sort of 'mad-at-you-for-even-considering-me-possible-scum' posting they've done so far eventually. They've been pretty energetic about it though so if either is faking they've done a good job. Not to mention they're putting significant effort into finding and eliminating scum. I don't think Empire scum is totally outside the realm of possibility yet, but I won't be considering lynching him today. Tammy's pretty unambiguous though; she's definitely exceeded the cap number of times scum can exclaim "I AM TOWN."

Purple Shoe:
Hasn't shown a ton of interest in figuring the game out, but he's not afraid to do his own thing and ignore behaviors expected of him (had a consensus =/= truth post and hasn't bothered to argue his reads or try and get others to act on them) and a "huge huge huge gut scumread" isn't something a scum would have. On the other hand he certainly hasn't put much effort into getting scum lynched, so there's that. Altslip stuff is pretty neutral for me.

STLX - Could go either way.

I reread Desperado but I don't have anything special to say yet, so I guess that's it for now. More later.

[Llamarble]

I played in Fakegod's last game (we are RL friends) and I'm pretty sure the neighborhood was randomly assigned (it did happen to contain scum though)

[Llamarble]

That game was cookie thief mafia and should be in completed mini themes somewhere

[Llamarble]

This remains one of my favorite posts ever.

FUCK YOU PAL

I AM SICK OF YOUR SHIT AND YOU'RE GONNA DIE

BEHOLD AN ARTIST'S RENDITION OF YOUR SITUATION




(MARBLE'S TINY FLACCID DONG OF SCUMMITUDE NOT PICTURED BECAUSE GIMP DOESN'T HAVE A BRUSH THAT SMALL)

Both of us were town

[Llamarble]

I'm not blacklisting you for being scum or town or anything I'm blacklisted purely on being a dick, you are probably town

I don't see Purple scum clearly at all and I don't llama approve this wagon.

[Llamarble]

If shoe has behaved the same way he has here and flipped scum, then link me.

Also Desperado is still the closest thing I've found to a slam dunk in this game, and we should lynch scum today so that we can figure out which global townread is wrong (Empire? Mara?).

[Llamarble]

I think for now the best Empire case going is 'not town enough,' but hopefully things will get clearer once we remove a buddy or two.

I am reading Generic town but you aren't, I was just trying to gauge the hierarchy of your reads

This is a somewhat scummy thing to be doing.
Also D's shoe / kuribo votes both look good for the 'scum on the wagon' role.

But mostly Desperado's posts sound like scum posts and his approach looks like a scum approach.
I'll admit that even Desperado could be town for 'why do you disagree' and 715

[Llamarble]

These last couple posts look like you're trying to demonstrate how Kuribo you are >_>
887 sure but 888 and 889 seem out of place

[Llamarble]

Hey I did have a strong townread on you in Revolution... eventually

[Llamarble]

I do think Random is most likely for the neighborhoods.
Shadoweh might be scum. I'll agree that she and Desperado are probably the best options for today. There isn't much time left for me to become properly useful is there .
Townreads need rethinking because there are just too many of them.

[Llamarble]

You brought nothing new in that last post.

I spose that's what happens when I feel bad about not posting but don't have that much new stuff to share.
I found a lynch I believe in (desperado). I think the odds he flips scum are solid, and if we hit scum D1 we'll probably win. Lets do that.
I'm not going to let a lynch I don't feel will scumflip happen, but I dunno if I'll get much proper threadscouring in before today ends either.

[Llamarble]

4 days is enough for another pass or two, but this week is going to be pretty busy.
Anyhow, I'll do my best to make time.

[Llamarble]

Totally uninterested in switching to Empire.
Shadoweh and Desperado both still have the potential to flip scum.
A couple Mara posts I encountered randomly while reading others looked town. Mara do you really think Generic would go that low as scum? I guess it's legit play for scum to tantrum that hard but most scum won't go as far as he did.

Must sleep.

[Llamarble]

unvote

vote llamarble

Why don't you form your own opinion on me rather than wait for someone who clearly hasn't got a clue to give you the answer.

I did. I found it dubious that Mara felt differently. Pay attention, mr whinyface.

[Llamarble]

Bad lynches:
Llamarble
Empire
Tammy

Probably bad but it's been awhile
Generic
Bert
Garantula

???:
Nacho
Mara
Kuribo
PB
Shoe

Solid options:
Desperado
Shadoweh

I'll try and make time tomorrow for sorting out the ??s.

[Llamarble]

Meh, even Shadoweh and Desperado aren't defscum.

[Llamarble]

Huh, Garantula is actually worthy of lynch-consideration. I'll revisit him tomorrow when I'm less tired but yeah, why'd we all townread him again?

[Llamarble]

TheGarantula

's coming across like solid noobtown to me. I really liked #32, immediately spotting something weird in Nacho's play due to experience with him is something I think newer players are far more likely to do as town. I like how takes a bit of an against-the-grain stance in #129 in the Generic/Marangal back-and-forth by townreading Generic/scumreading Marangal yet still made the effort to try and see what everyone else was seeing, as I find newer scum players often try to take the path of least resistance when it comes to major in thread issues. I like him coming forward admitting that he has no solid reads yet in #315 as scum (especially newer scum) tend to try and fake more definitive stances because that's usually seen as the more stereotypically pro-town thing to do.

Well first off "A is playing different from how he did in game X" is an honest comment scum can make, and consequently not really that uncommon from scum.
Eh fine the other two are pretty solid reasons / good moves if he's scum.

[Llamarble]

So Desperado's posts are fakeable and he places a scummily high priority on keeping track of everyone else's reads.
His votes work from scum, though voting both Gaiden and Shoe hits his buddylist.
He doesn't work awesomely well as a buddy for Shadoweh either, so I just plain don't have enough scumreads to try and associate people.

And Bert still looked town too, leaving me not sure what's going on here.

[Llamarble]

VoteCount 1.9

kuribo [5]: Empire, Desperado, Tammy, The Purple Shoe, Generic
Bert [1]: Shadoweh
Desperado [1]: Llamarble
The Purple Shoe [2]: Nachomamma8, Bert
PeaceBringer [1]: TheGarantula

Not Voting [3] - kuribo, PeaceBringer, Ms Marangal

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

.

Deadline is August 30, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-08-30 13:00:00)

VoteCount 1.11

kuribo [1]: The Purple Shoe
Bert [1]: Shadoweh
Desperado [1]: Llamarble
The Purple Shoe [6]: Nachomamma8, Bert, kuribo, Tammy, Desperado, PeaceBringer
PeaceBringer [1]: TheGarantula
Shadoweh [1]: Ms Marangal

Not Voting [2] - Empire, Generic

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

.

Deadline is August 30, 2013, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-08-30 13:00:00)

Hard to believe we quickwagoned scum without me Empire or Generic, so that bodes well for Shoe.
And non-well for Desperado / Peacebringer; I feel like one of those two was an 'ok we can actually make this be the d1 mislynch' vote.

Checked in on Generic again because I wanted to check my logic on shoe:

Tried to come back to this and try, even though its a chore just to read it let alone analyse it. But clearly whatever I write is going to be called scummy, so fuck it.

'I am not having as much fun as I normally do scumhunting' is difficult to fake.

If I ever flip scum having gone off the cliff like I have in this game empire it's the day I give up playing.

I assume there's nothing to suggest an intention to give up playing anyway out there which would make this less town?
Barring that, he remains pretty town.

[Llamarble]

Guys I think I remembered how to think aloud!
But now I really need to go to bed. I wonder how dumb I'll think I was tomorrow afternoon...

[Llamarble]

I had to go to sleep before feeling I'd solved the problem? At least I'm voting something that makes some sense.

I'm not accustomed to putting someone with a Bert-level of scumhunting energy on my scumlist D1.

Maybe it's Shadoweh Peacebringer and Nacho?

[Llamarble]

BTW Shadoweh if you like the idea of scum internal monologue in a thread, it was pretty cool when Fate did that in multiple personality mafia (while in his miller personality phase).
Mara would have to be faking strong convictions, and that 'we'll all be masons once we off a neighborhood scum' line. So she isn't a great candidate either.

[Llamarble]

Darn it qwints, why'd it have to be you who replaced into the scum slot
You were really good scum last time and we only got you by PoE at the end. This was hard enough already.

Anyhow, I think (Shadoweh OR Desperado) AND Qwints AND ???


I hate to quicklynch the replacement, but that might be the right move?

[Llamarble]

Okay so I'm not really sure what I want to do. I still have too many townreads. Ill reread through desperado again but I might sheep nacho/llamarble there just because I don't know what else to do and I don't think the shoe is going to flip scum and nobody else is suspicious of the peacebringer slot.

Llamarble is starting to hit the adorableness factor in some of his posts which I associate with him being town. Empire/nacho what are your updated reads on marble?

I don't really have much else to say.

Wait you were suspicious of Peacebringer too? Maybe we can actually do that.
Also being called adorable makes me happy <3

[Llamarble]

From the role PM, players should quickly realize that the "Role Names" are officially given, but not the roles.
Also, name and the adjective always started out with the same letter, and no roles shared a letter.

Additionally, Mafia were not given any safe claims or a sample PM. In order to balance this, I sent out multiple versions of WinCon and switched few things here and there throughout the Town PMs.

Scum has two ways to find out names every night (Sneaky Steve + GC), and in my playtesting, they usually had the entire town roster by the beginning of night 3. (faster in this game because people claimed early on)

Role Names were loosely related to what each of the roles did.

Balancing Act

Hated Townie couldn't be voted by one of the players.
Voteloss mechanic didn't work if Hated Townie was lynched.

Those two factors moderated the roles bit more into normalcy.

Vengeful Townie + Extra Life Townie + Suicidal Townie also created some interesting balancing acts, because they had the ability to push Town into and out of MyLo situations.

Brave Bob is powerful toward the endgame, especially if Extraordinary Eli and/or Daring Drew are still alive. (because some of Eli's abilities don't involve going to the Basket Tree, it's almost impossible for scum to fakeclaim a role that fits into both Bob's and Eli's detection, and Daring Drew counts twice every time he uses his ability)

Neighbors weren't controlled by scum, but scum at least knew who GC was going to roleblock every night, and is able to make accommodations for it. (have GC spy on Quick Quinn, who just sneaks out the back door, etc.)

FakeGod is a very clever mod who puts a lot of thought into his setups; Cookie Thief Mafia was pretty awesomely designed.
Having refreshed my memory on that game I find random-neighbors somewhat less likely, though still possible.

I may move my vote pending reading the Qwints slot harder this evening and comparing him / Desperado / Shadoweh and maybe taking a look for the last scum too.

[Llamarble]

Every player in this game has towntells and I'd say the scum are playing a pretty good game and would be in great shape if all the townies weren't all towning hard too.
Desperado gives some reads and some reasons, but the scumhunting energy level isn't as high as, say, Bert. He hasn't really thrown down to try and force anything, and his votes work as places scum would vote.
One of the more concrete things I can say about him is that he cares A LOT about being aware of what everybody else's reads are; this is scummy because the main thing scum want to do is make sure things don't turn on one of them / see where a mislynch can be organized, and the information needed to do this is what he has spent much of his time seeking. If I quoted the posts where he asked for clarification of a read / how strong a read was I'd be quoting a large portion of his ISO. It's okay to campaign to get people on the same side as you, but usually you can see more of an information gathering -> strong read -> lynch cheerleading pattern.

So I'm still pretty good with lynching Desperado. I'll reread the Qwints slot though; I don't get why it's town.

[Llamarble]

He's calm, cool, and collected

Why do people keep thinking this makes him town? (p.edit: yup)

Desperado + Peacebringer is working pretty well, with little voices whispering to me of a possible STLXRIBO third partner, but not very loudly since I haven't looked at that slot in a bit.

[Llamarble]

I think I buy that as a scum role.
It's worth a hmm though.

P.edit:
Well okay, that seems promising