Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Tammy]

VOTE: empire

What'd you draw? Do I get to lynch you?

[Tammy]

Not that I'm saying tht would be fun or anything, but yeah that'd be fun.

[Tammy]

1) I'm town.
2) No.

And I didn't even know you were in this game. <_<
I guess this shit just got a lot more baller.

You sound nervous. Don't be nervous. Ill be gentle :p

I replaced in about 15 minutes before the game started.

[Tammy]

Man, Tammy, I just went through my entire morning routine eagerly anticipating your reaction to my awesomeness but there's nothing. =(

What gives?

I must have missed the awesomeness, try again.

(Also, I've been in faculty meetings all day...wooooooooo)

[Tammy]

Oh hey empire, you should update your sig.

[Tammy]

Hi Gengen!

I'm happy to announce that I'm town this time around, though can I say the same for you?

I don't feel the happiness. If you're going to do a town dance, do it with feeling.

[Tammy]

you think i'm reaching?
i think you're chainsawing Empire.

...oh god, I really am being trolled right now. Is this the suffering I inflict onto others when I troll? If so, I'm so sorry Tammy for ever trolling you.

Forgiven

Oh hey empire, you should update your sig.

It took me a while to realize what you were talking about here and uh, yeah, maybe later.

Also ftr I'm not nervous at all. I'm actually pretty stoked that we've got a partial Yoloville reunion going and I'm hoping we're all town so we can end this thing quickly

(or you can be scum and I can take great sadistic pleasure in lynching you)

.

But I'm supposed to be taking sadistic pleasure in lynching you! I'm town, but you know that already don't you?

[Tammy]

I don't think I'm supposed to link to it; it's ongoing. It's still okay for me to reference it like that though, right?

No.

[Tammy]

Question for you: Is Nacho town?

Dude. You're asking me for my nacho read on page two? I think his demeanor is generally townish, kinda reminds me how he was in 501, but I don't ever have an actual read on nacho this early.

[Tammy]

##Vote: Nachomamma

<-- Blatant chainsawing for Empire. Also p sure he's telling the truth about Tammy.
HI TAMMY I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE IN THIS GAME EITHER is it okay if I troll you anyways?

NO! IF YOU'VE STOPPED READING THE TAMMYTOWN NEWSLETTER IN WHICH I CLEARLY INDICATED THAT I REPLACED INTO THIS GAME, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TROLL ME.

[Tammy]

Ok, I just read all of Nacho's posts and they look scummy to me.

I would like Nacho's response before voting.

Why do they look scummy to you? What response do you expect to get? And why are you waiting to vote him?

[Tammy]

Hi Gengen!

I'm happy to announce that I'm town this time around, though can I say the same for you?

I don't feel the happiness. If you're going to do a town dance, do it with feeling.

Would you like me to throw a party with Confetti and such as a means to accurately express my joy?

Yes. And there should be dancing in the streets. Oh yes, there should be dancing.

I'm town, but you know that already don't you?

Well yes and I'm pretty happy you can towninate fast without me having to troll you as a catalyst.

Question for you: Is Nacho town?

I'll take your word on Tammy for now, until I see reasons to believe otherwise. Still fairly unsure of my ability to accurately read her early on

<3

[Tammy]

I was hoping you guys would all daymasonize again

It still might happen!

[Tammy]

I've never drawn scum in a hydra.

[Tammy]

OH wait...do you mean the lovers game?

[Tammy]

Yeah, it was close, and besides i just realized I'm technically lying anyway because i just played as a scum hydra, but my partner left me so it was like an alt anyway.

But, it doesn't really matter because you got my alignment right anyway...I don't know what to do with that right now though >_<

[Tammy]

Dude. You're asking me for my nacho read on page two? I think his demeanor is generally townish, kinda reminds me how he was in 501, but I don't ever have an actual read on nacho this early.

Right, I forgot you're not a super cool master scumhunter like yours truly. Anyway, I wanted to see if your mind went to the same place as mine here and it looks like it did. There's a subtle difference in approach but I don't think it's alignment-related so...townish but still taking a wait-and-see approach.

*snerk*

I'll take your word on Tammy for now, until I see reasons to believe otherwise. Still fairly unsure of my ability to accurately read her early on

You don't have to just take my word for it. There's lots of people in here that have experience with her so if we're all seeing her as town, that's definitely a good sign.

This feels weird empire. Don't feel weird. I mean I'm definitely town, but I'd kinda expect you to know why I am. You making it a group read effort makes me feel all wobbly.

[Tammy]

I've never drawn scum in a hydra.

Liar. Did you forget I was in this?

Also, when I switch to laptop I will give a filler reason, but a couple of empires posts feel forced and one or two people have come in to gang up on nacho since he pointed to empire... Something feels off, but I am hesitant to believe people on mafia scum would so obviously chainsaw or town clear a scum buddy on day 1... Distancing and bussing all day long, but blatant buddy work? Not so sure.

Bald eagle, do you want to break down the reasons for a scum read on nacho? That doesn't require him to respond first, so what are you seeing?

I AM a big fat liar. Tsunami drew scum in the red wedding. I totally forgot that was actually a hydra. I blame it on the fact that my other head left me before the game started and it was essentially an alt of me.

You should lynch me though because lynch all liars...except I'm town and that wouldn't be nice or helpful, so that rule is out the window.

[Tammy]

Tammy stop drawng scum, you're leaving a bad impression for the children.
Generic could you be more specific in how our incredibly overblown chensawing is fake? More specifically, could you specify which of the like five people doing this is 'off' or would you like to stick with SOMETHIN FEELS WEIRD WELP BYE EVERYONE SEE

i was going to got whut and then I realized you're trolling me! I did stop drawing scum. If you want to take a tour through my recent scum games and get a really good feeling about why I'm town townie town town here, I'll be your guide though shadoweh!

[Tammy]

Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

I'm looking forward to when empire gets a chance to post so I can solidify my read there, but he might be town.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

[Tammy]

Nacho and Tammy: This doesn't look like scumGeneric from Red Wedding, agree/disagree?

Agree for the most part, but since I was his partner I didn't really read all his posts. This back and forth feels a little different than the one he got into with metal sonic though.

[Tammy]

AtE=appeal to emotion

[Tammy]

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.
.

I have read your case. I've read both of them more than once, but as that's a large part of it or at least the impression I'm getting, I'm having trouble gauging either of you.

[Tammy]

Who else do you want me to look at though?

I hear you, you're saying he's scum and he's saying you are. At this point, every single post you make to the other is just confirming what you're saying and it's not very productive nor is it helpful in gaining a read on either of you so as to know how to gauge what you're saying. At this point, people are just going to pick sides, and a lot of times that comes down to who they sympathize with more or who annoys them more, and then it's a crapshoot for if we find scum.

I'm not telling you to look at anyone in particular. Though I'd like to know your thoughts on desperado.

[Tammy]

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

This is not at ALL the right move. When two people are familiar with one another and they are fighting with each other, that is the very first thing you pay attention to and you sort that out before anything else. If you read Tierce as scum, I will focus in on your fight until you have sorted her out to the best of your ability; ignoring what is pretty much a free scum lynch if we play our cards right is the worst move possible.

I don't agree and I never said anything about ignoring it. It's become largely unproductive and a distraction. I think it shouldn't be their sole focus and I think it should be tabled. And I've seen enough people who think they know each other read each other wrong that I'm not going to go blindly on that. There is no new ground being tread, neither is budging nor are they seeing anything the other is saying as productive. It's dissolved into NO U. That's not productive or helpful at all. And I haven't been able to gauge a read on either I feel halfway decent about that would even make the start of the argument meaningful.

[Tammy]

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

These reads are pretty damn weak considering information in thread so far. Garg picking up on me feeling differently from what he's used to IMMEDIATELY was town as fuck. His attempt to involve himself in that fight that you seem to be avoiding was town as fuck. Shadoweh is cool probably town and all but you know there's no real reason peacebringer is scum and you know that ignoring the fight completely is bad bad bad. I'm willing to throw double-down on peacebringer being town and feel fine in calling empire town (he won't hide from me forever), and as of right now, feel pretty fine calling marangal town and generic scum. And it surprises me that you don't even get any paranoid vibes from him tunneling the fuck out of someone in the early game when that's exactly what he did in red wedding, when he's sitting back and chuckling at Mara lacking a case on him-scum when they have some history together and you know cases don't really need to be talked about when they have history together. Desperado has a slow start you also really aren't picking up on, and all the while it's this gorgeous, gorgeous fight going on that's generating this good information that you want to stop because you're being lazy/scum. Don't break my heart.

So? No I mean really, so. I wouldn't have even given those reads if they weren't specifically asked for. There is literally no good reason for you even pretending to entertain an idea I could be scum here. There's just not, not if you're actually paying attention to me. There's just no way I could be as happy as I was to start this game as scum after now drawing it five times in near succession. Sorry, there's just not. And I do have reason to be suspicious of peacebringer and I'm surprised you're doubling down on calling him town as fuck and dismissing my suspicions without even bothering to ask me why I would be. That's not trying to figure me out, and this lame ass you're ignoring a fight, which I'm not even, not a little, ignoring is silly. You know perfectly well that scum could easily take a side, perhaps against their partner for the town cred, but that doesn't make them town for doing it. Also, and I get that paranoia is a typical characteristic of my play, but I'm not generally paranoid early day one. And why the hell do you think I asked them to stop fighting? Because I think it's a distraction and I think it's unhelpful, and I'm unable to get reads on either f them right now. But if they stop the fight that has become unproductive and start interacting with other people, we might be able to get better reads on both of them. That is anything but ignoring. Also, just because I didn't give all my reads right now doesn't mean I don't have thoughts. There are things that I'm holding onto to see how some things develop.

But if you want to compare it to the red wedding, please do. Considering the fact that I started bussing him early, then took metal sonics side in the fight and voted generic against him and tried to white knight metal sonic, I can't believe you're throwing this at me right now. When as scum I clearly didn't ignore a fight, and took a side, what makes you think for a second that I'm the type of scum player to do that? I'm obviously not sure what to think here and want something that I think has become unhelpful to end so that scum don't have a place to hide and to get a better feel for both of them and the people who reacted.

And not to mention but I think extended bickerfests like this are bad for town. I think they are bad for town when I get involved in them and am usually trying to wrench myself out of them because I think they're bad for town, and I think they are bad for town when others do them.

[Tammy]

Desperado - I was scum in red wedding. However, those were my honest thoughts; I'd have thought that way as town.

[Tammy]

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting.

Yes, Tammy is sooooo suspicious for wanting a fight that has become unproductive to end. It's just so horrible of me to want them to interact with and talk about other people that isn't just rooted in their bickerfests so that town can get a better read on them and then maybe be able to see if there's something in that fight that's worthwhile.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end? Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

[Tammy]

Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

I'm looking forward to when empire gets a chance to post so I can solidify my read there, but he might be town.

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

Is the shadow read meta-based?

Peace's Generic questioning looked really town to me, what's got you leaning scum there?

Yeah, shadow feels more like she did in the wire and in yoloville where we were all town, but I should be able to get a better feel as the game progresses.

Well, I'm still a bit suspicious about peace based on bald eagle replacing out. He's still active on site and signing up for games. He was scum reading nacho and replaced out after being questioned on his reads. I'm worried about that. I know he's new and could get intimidated either way, but it seems like an odd thing so early. And peace came in and immediately latched onto generic and didn't say anything about anyone else. If generic is scum, I could see that from a partner trying to make sure they were on the right side of the argument. Generic has reacted to peace a bit more calmly than he's reacted to some, and if generic is scum I can see that interaction as partnership based. This I'm going off of the way generic treated my suspicions of him in the red wedding as opposed to others. If generic isn't scum then this falls apart some, but I'm still concerned about the replace out thing.

[Tammy]

Desperado - I was scum in red wedding. However, those were my honest thoughts; I'd have thought that way as town.

I know you were scum, and the two reactions are different enough that I'm reading you as town.

I remember someone saying that the inclusion of flowery language and expansive metaphors whilst dispelling the argument was the scumtell for you--when you're town you cut the shit and try to solve the problem and move on, which is what I see here.

That's good to know >_>

[Tammy]

@ Tammy: Which scumflip would be more damaging for the other, Generic or Shadow?

I don't understand the question.

[Tammy]

This feels weird empire. Don't feel weird. I mean I'm definitely town, but I'd kinda expect you to know why I am. You making it a group read effort makes me feel all wobbly.

That's not even what I was doing. I know exactly why you're town (you've rolled scum a lot here and offsite so you're super excited and stoked to be town in this game) but the others don't. The point of that line is to make Marangal, who I had town at that point because of her paranoia of you, more secure in that read. I've kind of lost all patience at this point with people and after seeing shit like our slot's townread on DV being ignored in The Wire, I want to make sure everyone's on the same page.

That's exactly why you should know I'm town!

@Desperado/Tammy:

In what way do you guys feel that Generic is playing differently here than he did in The Red Wedding?

His responses seem more genuine. Also i dont remember him omgusing everyone who went after him. like he pretty much told shadoweh that he felt better about her once she wasnt attacking him, which seems werid for scum. idk. But I'm a bad person to ask. I had the benefit of knowing generic was spouting bullshit in that game, and here I trying to figure out whether or not he is. It's part of why I want this fight to end. I want to see how he reads and interacts with people without the foundation of the Mara fight as I think that's where it'll be easier to get a handle on him.

Ill also be interested in your meta read on him.

[Tammy]

On a scale of 1-10, how scummy would Generic look if we lynched Shadow and they flipped scum?
On a scale of 1-10, how scummy would Shadow look if we lynched Generic and they flipped scum?

I haven't drawn a connection between generic and shadoweh and would be surprised if they were scum together based on their interactions right now.

I thought you were town reading generic though?

[Tammy]

VOTE: gaiden

[Tammy]

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end? Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

I was on the offensive last night, just in case you couldn't tell. I'm pretty glad I did, though; I don't think I would've caught that you were actually doing this from a pro-town perspective as opposed from the "people are posting too much i'm not reading what they're saying" I see so much.

And what would make you jump to me of all people going at it from the perspective of dont want to read all that? I can't remember a game where I didn't read everything, not even as scum. I just don't understand especially when this was the post in which I asked for the fight to stop:

My biggest thoughts right now though are that I want you and Mara to take a break from your slap fight. It would be one thing if it were based on in thread posts, but its on how you guys expect for each other to behave. That's fine for a little bit, but it should end now. Neither of you are going to convince anyone based on what you're doing now. It's at the point where it's causing a distraction and making it hard to get a read on either of you. So it would be super awesome if you took a break from one another and looked at other things.

I think that's clear that I thought it was a distraction and it was hard to read either of them from that. How you jumped to "I don't want to read stuff" is beyond me.

[Tammy]

*the exception being that I didn't read all of generics posts during the metal sonic/generic showdown during the red wedding.

[Tammy]

Tammy, I brought up points against Generic. What do you think of those points?

I think that you believe those points, and after nacho gave his reasons for town reading you, I think you're more likely to be town.

But I want to see how generic interacts with people not you or related to you because right now I can't tell if he's scum trying to discredit you or town who is getting more and more flustered that his mentee is scum reading him and flailing and striking out at anyone for agreeing with you.

[Tammy]

I latched on cause what I saw reading on the game. The prior part is part and parcel to games here, at least it used to be. Nature of replacing. Everyone else I am feeling and more interest in seeing where votes go and seeing what the claims are. I think Generic needs to claim. I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

So, no reads on anyone else?

[Tammy]

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting.

Yes, Tammy is sooooo suspicious for wanting a fight that has become unproductive to end. It's just so horrible of me to want them to interact with and talk about other people that isn't just rooted in their bickerfests so that town can get a better read on them and then maybe be able to see if there's something in that fight that's worthwhile.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end?

Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

Why are you so overdefensive here, Tammy? And the bolded pings my scumdar. Not a very satisfactory response to Nacho's prodding you about "shutting down the fight."

Because his push on that was silly, and that's not the only response I gave to him. As far as I was/am concerned the way he framed the whole thing wasn't in the manner of trying to figure out why I would want the fight stopped and instead told me how I should be thinking. That's not trying to seek my alignment at all.

And it was a stupid push. Extended bickerfests that end up not being productive are bad for town. They give scum a place to hide, make people take sides for non alignment based reasons, and can cause apathy in town. All bad for town. Trying to paint me as suspicious for wanting it to come to an end because it was becoming unproductive struck me as really off. It still does.

Your reaction actually bothers me.

So.

[Tammy]

Heck, I feel that way when I see Tammy posting. I don't think I could lead a successful case against her, ever, even if I really really wanted her dead.

I don't know why anyone would ever want me dead. I'm a fucking sweetheart.

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.
.

I have read your case. I've read both of them more than once, but as that's a large part of it or at least the impression I'm getting,

I'm having trouble gauging either of you.

Why are you having trouble gauging either one of them?? I don't understand

I don't have the benefit of knowing their alignments. Both of them seem like they believe what they're saying, which makes it difficult to tell if one of them is bsing.

[Tammy]

Tammy, I brought up points against Generic. What do you think of those points?

I think that you believe those points, and after nacho gave his reasons for town reading you, I think you're more likely to be town.

But I want to see how generic interacts with people not you or related to you because right now I can't tell if he's scum trying to discredit you or town who is getting more and more flustered that his mentee is scum reading him and flailing and striking out at anyone for agreeing with you.

[Tammy]

And it was a stupid push. Extended bickerfests that end up not being productive are bad for town. They give scum a place to hide, make people take sides for non alignment based reasons, and can cause apathy in town. All bad for town. Trying to paint me as suspicious for wanting it to come to an end because it was becoming unproductive struck me as really off. It still does.

*shrug* Kay then. They make people take sides for non alignment based reasons?? How so...

I've already said this. People will end up choosing to side with whom their more sympathetic or against who annoys them more. They'll then start to view that as a reason for their scum town read. If you look at the red wedding game, generic and metal sonic got into a fight day one. Metal sonic got on people's nerves and though he made a case on generic and generic was scum, they actively discounted his case and lynched metal sonic instead. And a large part of that was because they were just annoyed. In good v evil, I got into a large two week fight with zdenek. People took sides and he almost got lynched day one; we were both town.

Arguments are going to happen, and you can get good information from arguments, but there's a point when it should stop because it consumes the thread. And that point was a few pages ago, and I'm having serious issues with anyone thinking it should actually be prolonged.

I don't know why anyone would ever want me dead. I'm a fucking sweetheart.

Innocent blah-blah - not buying it. Don't you talk to me like that. Tell that "I'M A SWEETIE PIE" to the people in 501 Stacking the Deck. Puh-leez. I don't trust you with a ten-foot pole.

I am a sweetie pie. Even was then.

I do really love this paranoia, but my scum game is pretty poor.

You don't have to take my word for it. Anyone who really knows my town game will be able to point out this being it, and besides my eventual night kill will dispel all paranoia.

[Tammy]

Llamarble - you don't have any opinion on anything that came before? Do you have an opinion on the guy he's talking about.

[Tammy]

I want you to answer me on something. Who has been sucking up to who in this game? (be as detailed as possible)

Other then Tammy making me feel good for knowing what a town her looks like, I wouldn't say anyone else is that I've seen. The reply you quoted there is me saying that Nacho trolling Empire isn't 'sucking up'. Why are you asking me about something I don't think is happening? Reading further says I should quality my Tammy comment with saying I don't think she's scum for it, since you appear to have a bad case of the Tammykilledmes.

Who am I sucking up too?

[Tammy]

I latched on cause what I saw reading on the game. The prior part is part and parcel to games here, at least it used to be. Nature of replacing. Everyone else I am feeling and more interest in seeing where votes go and seeing what the claims are. I think Generic needs to claim. I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

So, no reads on anyone else?

Peacebringer - please answer this.

[Tammy]

@Bert:

You have a lot of suspects, but is there anyone you are reading as town? If so, who?

Give me 1 more day to get a feel/rhythm for everyone. I have gone over the game a few times, but not enough yet. It's like walking into a dead conversation, and you know, you feeling like they have already been through a war and you're walking in all innocent.

That's how I feel.

Tammy and Mara are town town town. Everyone else I'm on the fence about...give me one more day.

How did I go from the to-be-watched list to town town town?

[Tammy]

Tammy, whenever you get a chance, would like to hear your thoughts on Bert specifically.

Don't know how to read Bert. He kinda seems similar to 501 in tone, but since he replaced out early I didn't get a chance to see what his town game really looks like. I believe he plays a lot with nacho, so he'd be a better person to ask.

I did like the paranoia he threw at me immediately upon entering. However, I did let soo slip by me in mafia.raptured partially for this because I wrote it off as town for a little while, but Bert's felt more natural. I don't know what I did to erase that paranoia though.

Why did you vote for gaiden in rvs?

[Tammy]

Woah, woah. Why are you asking Tammy about me? Why don't you make some of your own comments first.

The question has less to do with you and more to do with her. Of course I have my own opinion and I'll make my own comments when I feel ready.

You feel weird this game.

[Tammy]

13 pages.

There are 309 posts in this game. 82 of them are Mara and generic. Thats nearly a third of the game that is these two. That's not even counting the posts that are dedicated to this fight.

It's too much. It's just too much.

Remember how I said eventually people will pick a side, yeah, I'm past annoyed with it now and I'm near close to picking generic because this needs to end. And its clearly not going to. We can't get any decent reads from this fight or from the other people in the game. Maybe some of you can but I can't.

/mini rant

[Tammy]

I lost Internet connection at my house so I can only phone post for a bit.

Why did you vote for gaiden in rvs?

Why are you even asking me this question when you know the answer and you know it's not alignment indicative? I obviously voted Gaiden in RVS because I thought he'd give me an alignment indicative response if wagoned.

I meant to ask you that the other day. Of course I know why you vote people in rvs, but he's new I was interested in why you chose him.

You feel weird this game.

What the fuck? I expect the rest of these guys to be slow in figuring out I'm town here but you? I can go and point out every single one of my towntells in this game (you can also read Nacho's post, he did a fairly good job of pointing them out). And I've been doing a pretty decent job of keeping up with the game too so I don't even know why you feel even remotely weird about me.

I'll talk about the Bert question when I'm not stuck on a phone.

I was hoping you'd answer something like this. Most people feel weird to me though. Maybe I'm the one that's weird. Who knows.

Sorry sorry sorry.

[Tammy]

Tammy I get other people feeling weird to you but me? Of the MS people, you probably know my play literally better than anyone else on the site. So I want to know what exactly is off with you here. I'm not interested in dealing with Yoloville type paranoia from you especially on Day 1.

Empire I'm just having a really weird day today, please just cut me a little slack.

[Tammy]

He's not on my case, he knows I'm town and what his problem is is that I should know he's town too. That's why he said he doesn't want to deal with my paranoia. The problem isn't with him, the problem is with me. He's my friend and hell recognize that I'm acknowledging that and asking him to just cut me some slack.

[Tammy]

Tammy, you say you were going to choose me, put the vote down,

I said I was near ready to vote. I have to get far more annoyed than I am to lay down an annoyance vote.

[Tammy]

I think there's another question or two I need to answer but I'm going to sleep.

[Tammy]

Don't know how to read Bert. He kinda seems similar to 501 in tone, but since he replaced out early I didn't get a chance to see what his town game really looks like. I believe he plays a lot with nacho, so he'd be a better person to ask.

I did like the paranoia he threw at me immediately upon entering. However, I did let soo slip by me in mafia.raptured partially for this because I wrote it off as town for a little while, but Bert's felt more natural. I don't know what I did to erase that paranoia though.

I asked you about Bert because he did a number of things that I think town-you would definitely like, the paranoia of you being one thing, and I wanted to see if you'd point them out so I could feel better about having read you as town. #240 is another example of something I liked about him that I expected you to see, the line about how he doesn't feel like he could ever lead a successful case against you read extremely genuine and I'm surprised you didn't mention anything of it. I'm still reading you as town but I'm not as confident as I want to be I guess. I don't know, I think part of this is just motivated by the fear that one day you'll just burn me as scum because I underestimated your game.

Also, why weren't you indignant when I responded to you yesterday? I remember in Yoloville you lashed out at me saying something like "how dare you say I can't be paranoid of you!" but there's nothing like that here.

(As an aside, I think Bert is very different from SoO in that he seems a lot more like a "heart-on-sleeve" kind of player and that mimicking that level of transparency is very hard to do as scum. SoO just kinda lurked his way through the whole game without offering solid opinions on anything.)

No no no no no. You are still making me feel weird. You wonder why you are also feeling weird to me and then you bring out this pile of nonsense? THIS quasi-paranoia at me feels fake as hell. You told me that you could go through the game and pick out your own town tells well buddy my should be bleeping like a beacon all over the game. How people like shadoweh, desperado and Bert can recognize why I'm town here and you, mr. Meta man, can't is baffling. I town told in in my first couple of posts. You told me why I was town, and that should show you why I am. How you're able to recognize that shadoweh was town based on something very little, enough that you suggested that she be out in the town block, and start questioning me? Or use my read on Bert to gauge you're read on me. Sorry empire this doesn't add up. Not one bit. Oh and that bs "you didn't catch this line that I thought was genuine so don't know why makes me unconfident in my read on you" is exactly what it is absolute bs. If you wanted my opinion on that line and whether or not I thought it was genuine, you should have asked me about it. I am not like you. I do not point out every single thing someone says and go this, this and this. You know I don't, and the face that you didn't actually enter into conversation about it with me is really troubling.

And I'm actually so absolutely shocked be the last question. Are you serious? No really are you? I can't tell because its such a stupid question I can't tell how town you would actually ask it. My answer should be easy enough for you to understand...how I responded to you and to Bert. Should actually be fine and should be even more telling to you that I am in fact town here. You are making me feel weird this game. I don't have a solid reason to think you're town. Yes, you've done some things that look town to me, but you haven't done anything that I don't believe you can do as scum. I told you you were making me feel weird in part because I wanted to see your reaction. Which should be damn clear to you because I literally said I was hoping for an answer like this. And if you can't pick up on the fact that I literally also said that I was having a really weird day and to just cut me some slack and interacted with Bert as being true and me recognizing the maybe I'm just having a bad day and its influencing how I feel about the game then I don't know what to tell you.

But here's what I do know buddy. You do not, not a little bit, get to throw indignant crap at me in which you even recognize that others might be slow to warm up to you and expect me to have this super duper unwavering town read on you, which if you're recognizing that you're not a beacon then you have no reason to expect I should read you as town, and which is reading fake in light of nacho saying that you expect your friends to read you as town and then question me like this. Because as far as I'm concerned I should be your strongest town read. There should be no doubt in your mind about my alignment. So sorry but you can cut out your "I'm worried you might burn me as scum". Why don't you Mr. meta man go read my scum games again then come back in here and tell me you're worried. Go on, do it. I dare you to find anything in my play that is anything other than me being town when I've been quite transparently town the entire game.

-------------

I just woke up from a nap and read backwards. I might not be able to get back to this until tomorrow depending on how much work I get done tonight. I know I missed a question from beet I wanted to answer last night, ill do that later.

[Tammy]

Don't know how to read Bert. He kinda seems similar to 501 in tone, but since he replaced out early I didn't get a chance to see what his town game really looks like. I believe he plays a lot with nacho, so he'd be a better person to ask.

I did like the paranoia he threw at me immediately upon entering. However, I did let soo slip by me in mafia.raptured partially for this because I wrote it off as town for a little while, but Bert's felt more natural. I don't know what I did to erase that paranoia though.

I asked you about Bert because he did a number of things that I think town-you would definitely like, the paranoia of you being one thing, and I wanted to see if you'd point them out so I could feel better about having read you as town. #240 is another example of something I liked about him that I expected you to see, the line about how he doesn't feel like he could ever lead a successful case against you read extremely genuine and I'm surprised you didn't mention anything of it. I'm still reading you as town but I'm not as confident as I want to be I guess. I don't know, I think part of this is just motivated by the fear that one day you'll just burn me as scum because I underestimated your game.

Also, why weren't you indignant when I responded to you yesterday? I remember in Yoloville you lashed out at me saying something like "how dare you say I can't be paranoid of you!" but there's nothing like that here.

(As an aside, I think Bert is very different from SoO in that he seems a lot more like a "heart-on-sleeve" kind of player and that mimicking that level of transparency is very hard to do as scum. SoO just kinda lurked his way through the whole game without offering solid opinions on anything.)

No no no no no. You are still making me feel weird. You wonder why you are also feeling weird to me and then you bring out this pile of nonsense? THIS quasi-paranoia at me feels fake as hell. You told me that you could go through the game and pick out your own town tells well buddy my should be bleeping like a beacon all over the game. How people like shadoweh, desperado and Bert can recognize why I'm town here and you, mr. Meta man, can't is baffling. I town told in in my first couple of posts. You told me why I was town, and that should show you why I am. How you're able to recognize that shadoweh was town based on something very little, enough that you suggested that she be out in the town block, and start questioning me? Or use my read on Bert to gauge you're read on me. Sorry empire this doesn't add up. Not one bit. Oh and that bs "you didn't catch this line that I thought was genuine so don't know why makes me unconfident in my read on you" is exactly what it is absolute bs. If you wanted my opinion on that line and whether or not I thought it was genuine, you should have asked me about it. I am not like you. I do not point out every single thing someone says and go this, this and this. You know I don't, and the face that you didn't actually enter into conversation about it with me is really troubling.

And I'm actually so absolutely shocked be the last question. Are you serious? No really are you? I can't tell because its such a stupid question I can't tell how town you would actually ask it. My answer should be easy enough for you to understand...how I responded to you and to Bert. Should actually be fine and should be even more telling to you that I am in fact town here. You are making me feel weird this game. I don't have a solid reason to think you're town. Yes, you've done some things that look town to me, but you haven't done anything that I don't believe you can do as scum. I told you you were making me feel weird in part because I wanted to see your reaction. Which should be damn clear to you because I literally said I was hoping for an answer like this. And if you can't pick up on the fact that I literally also said that I was having a really weird day and to just cut me some slack and interacted with Bert as being true and me recognizing the maybe I'm just having a bad day and its influencing how I feel about the game then I don't know what to tell you.

But here's what I do know buddy. You do not, not a little bit, get to throw indignant crap at me in which you even recognize that others might be slow to warm up to you and expect me to have this super duper unwavering town read on you, which if you're recognizing that you're not a beacon then you have no reason to expect I should read you as town, and which is reading fake in light of nacho saying that you expect your friends to read you as town and then question me like this. Because as far as I'm concerned I should be your strongest town read. There should be no doubt in your mind about my alignment. So sorry but you can cut out your "I'm worried you might burn me as scum". Why don't you Mr. meta man go read my scum games again then come back in here and tell me you're worried. Go on, do it. I dare you to find anything in my play that is anything other than me being town when I've been quite transparently town the entire game.

-------------

I just woke up from a nap and read backwards. I might not be able to get back to this until tomorrow depending on how much work I get done tonight. I know I missed a question from beet I wanted to answer last night, ill do that later.

[Tammy]

Empire - what are your reads? How come you haven't posted any yet?

What do you think of peacebringer? I'm gathering since you agreed with him being in the town block you agree with him as town. Why? And why didn't you interact with me concerning that read? Have you noticed that he has yet again ignored my question to him about his other reads?

And if you're so concerned with me, what do you think about my interaction with nacho, shadoweh, desperado, Bert, generic? That should be telling to you, and you actually needed to know my read on Bert and whether or not I would pick out one line to gauge your read on me? I call bs. I have plenty of interactions with people that you should be able to read me off of, and you've just plain ignored that for favor of what type of read I would give Bert. Doesn't add up.

[Tammy]

Also, I didn't compare him to Soo. Their playstyles have nothing, absolutley nothing, to do with that statement. I was referencing me. That its a tell I've used before to read someone as maybe town and been wrong ABOUT THE TELL.

[Tammy]

He's not on my case, he knows I'm town and what his problem is is that I should know he's town too. That's why he said he doesn't want to deal with my paranoia. The problem isn't with him, the problem is with me. He's my friend and hell

recognize that I'm acknowledging that and asking him to just cut me some slack.

not understand it at all and use it to throw stupid crap at me

FTFM

[Tammy]

And, this is going to be my last post I promise, I really do have to finish my lecture for tomorrow but Empire answer me this:

In what world, do you think that I, who hate being scum and have drawn it several times lately and would just feel dreadful to draw scum here, start out the game taunting you about what your alignment is? In what world do you actually think that I as scum start the game in as good of a mood as I did joking around with people and what not if I'm scum here. Seriously? I realize you haven't called me scum but you not being confident in me has me flabbergasted because to even be uncertain about me a little bit you'd have to think that I faked the beginning of the game. And I'd really really love for you to explain to me how you think that I could have remotely done that. That would mean me trying to pull one over on Nacho (who has seen me as scum twice in a row now), Shadoweh, you, and to a lesser extent Llamarble, generic and mara who are all familiar with me.

So, do that, tell me how any of that looks fake, because if you have any doubt about me you'd have to believe that was. But see, I know you couldn't think that because you know that's not something that I could fake, so your doubt, feels fake to me.

[Tammy]

And I don't know if you realize this, but I do actually hold your scum game to a higher standard than you do for yourself. Believe it or not, I read you as town in Open 501 for most of the game (and even Regfan did too). I *think* I misread you in the Red Wedding too but I'm not sure since I focused mostly on my Reck scumread while following it. So go fuck yourself if you think this paranoia is fake because I can assure you that it is very very real.

I get part of that. I still don't understand why you would be paranoid of me in this game, especially when the people who were *in* those games with me, and were fooled by me, aren't exhibiting that paranoia. What strikes me as odd is that you have been fooled by Nacho before but you're not exhibiting any signs of paranoia about him.

But if you are just seriously paranoid, go back and read those games. After 501 when Regfan and I talked about the game and he told me that he was reading me as town until read on Tierce seemed off, he said that my scum game has improved but that tonally there's still a big difference. When I told you that, you agreed. So, no matter if my scum game has improved, and I thank you for the compliment if you actually think my scum game isn't super obvious, I can't fake a town one. Maybe one day I could, but I can't not now, not even close.

And fucking lol at you saying that I'm not allowed to be indignant while you are. If you could stop bring self-absorbed for maybe ten fucking seconds then MAYBE you'd see that I'm also asking you these things to field your reactions because I want to be more certain of you because sorting you out early is my #1 priority.

I can't stop being self-absorbed; it's who I am. I didn't say that you are not allowed to be indignant. I'm saying that you can't be indignant at me for not just reading you as town while at the same time questioning me. Because you are not understanding that maybe I have the same doubts you are. You can't go "how dare you not see me as town" and then turn around and go "I'm not confident in my town read on you." That's my point. And you also don't get to tell me that MAYBE I'm asking you things to field your reactions, and then not recognize that I also asked you questions to field your reactions to sort out my read on you. I even literally said that. I told you you were feeling weird to me. After your reaction, I said that I had hoped for that type of reaction. Instead of recognizing that, you went OH MY GOD WAIT WHY AREN'T YOU BEING INDIGNANT? when I made it clear that I liked your reaction. And instead of recognizing what I said to Bert that the problem lay with me and that I was having a weird day, which I shouldn't need to explain you know that yesterday was the first real day at my new job and that I was nervous about it so me feeling weird just in life in general and it maybe bleeding into the game, should be something that you should recognize. Not only that but i've referenced how stupid my paranoia of you was in yoloville more than once, so why would I get indignant. I have no problem recognizing maybe when I'm wrong and when a product of my paranoia is me and not someone else. This is not something new and is exhibited through several games.

And finally, there is literally, postively no way I'd play this way as scum or interact with you like this at all as scum. Why wouldn't I just coast on by hardtownreading you and just filing you away? Why the fuck would I even try this shit?

And you're suggesting there's the possibility that I would interact with you this way if I were scum? That I would have started the game interacting with you the way I did if I were scum?

Literally posting this from my phone at dinner with my friends and now my night's hampered. If you don't think I'm obvious fucking town after this, then you need to hand in your badge because you're off the fucking force which is sad because I have objectively the worst scum game on this site (my last completed scum game being over a year ago now).

The thing is empire, i was satisfied last night. I liked your reaction to me saying that you were feeling weird. I said that. I didn't like how angry you seemed to get about why you started a wagon on gaiden, but I thought your reaction to me read town. I thought you'd recognize that. And then you came out with what you came out with today and had me scratching my head so hard I didn't know what to think.

And sorry, you don't get to tell me to hand in my badge for not hard town reading you when you can't see why I'm obviously town. You can't sorry.

[Tammy]

Gosh Tammy, you're being so paranoid about what others think of you, or rather what others "should" think of you

I'm not. Empire's arguing that I should be townreading him because I know him while at the same time questioning me and my alignment which should be clear to him. He's literally going "You should know how to read me how dare you question my alignment, you're off the force" while at the same time going "I'm not really confident in my read on you...you might be town but let's ignore every single other thing and ask you a question about Bert and then go AHA why didn't you pick up on this thing you should have picked up on instead of go hey tammy what'd you think about this."

Sorry no. Either we can read each other or we can't. He can't give me the crap he gave me last night for telling him that I was feeling weird about him, in that he gave me a hard time for not hard town reading him then, and then come in today and go "yeah I'm not sure about you". He either understands that we're nervous about each other or he understands that we're both being ridiculous because if we are both town that should be obvious to each other. Last night I exhibited that understanding; I thought I was being ridiculous and then he came out with what he came out with today.

And I really need to get to work.

[Tammy]

Skimmed quickly. I'm short on time right now as I'm trying to write a lecture for tomorrow morning. If I finish soon, I'll catch up and stuff, but it will probably be tomorrow. I don't work Friday, so I'll have time tomorrow.

But real quick.

Bert, I love the paranoia. No, I do. I already had you as town anyway, but that paranoia just earned you a blinking town badge. As far as empire and I both being eloquent and rhetorical, <3. He's a lawyer and I'm a teacher, so kinda comes with the territory...hopefully.

And empire, of course I would have interacted with you if I were scum. It would be a death knell for me not to. I don't know if it would have been that way. I imagine I would have taken some time to think about it, and considering I replaced in like 15 minutes before the game started, I wouldn't have had time to mull over how I was going to interact with you in a way that would make me look town. I might have posted those first two posts I guess? But I think I could have easily written your reaction to me off as a town tell; you would be expecting it and then I could start effort posting to look town. I don't know, I just don't think I could fake my first few pages. But I would have interacted with you some way, that much is definitely true.

Also, I agree with Nacho on the Purple Show and Llamarble suspicion.

All right more later.

[Tammy]

I didn't know you asked me a question. I'll put it on file to answer tomorrow, or later tonight if I'm somehow super speedy. I haven't read all the posts posted since sometime Monday and I think I remember bert asking me a question I didn't answer either.

[Tammy]

I am about to do my best to catch up all the way tonight. If I don't get all the way through, I'll finish tomorrow. Sorry if there's incoming spam.

[Tammy]

What do you mean you don't know how to read me? Do you have ANY sort of read or not...

What I did was I decided to look at 501 again and then look at your play here. I also don't like the "I let X get by with this, therefore this qualifies me to make this paranoia overall a null tell for Y. Or MAYBE not, I'll look back later to give myself options to lynch Bert or not Lynch and just NOT give ANY read on Bert now" Why are you even talking about this then?

You only played like 5 minutes in 501 so I didn't really get a good sense of your town game, and the type of way you play is something that is superficially transferable between alignments. I don't think I would know scum you from the way you play, so no I don't know *how* to read you.

I did have a leaning town read, which has turned into a strong town read based on what looks like genuine paranoia along with a town read from nacho.

And, no, that tell is something I've been burned on before. I still think the paranoia thing looks town, but I've also cleared scum before for that same thing, and even though your paranoia looks more natural to me, I still remember getting burned by the tell. It's not let me give myself options; I don't even think that way as scum because as town I readily change my opinion and know how to do it when I'm scum. The tell was more about me than about you. If I get burned by something, I'm a little hesitant to use it the next time no matter who it is. I have a tendency to overcompensate when I've been wrong.

[Tammy]

"On Night 1 I can dispel your paranoia when I die" and stuff like that

Well I never get targeted for death night one at this site, but I won't be alive until the end.

[Tammy]

Have you been a meta-girl thus far in this game

Nope.

[Tammy]

So, I still think that Shadoweh is leaning town...but shadoweh, you're kinda feeling like you did in aia in which you tried to fake your anger and it was over the top.

I don't understand your points on bert and think you are wrong.

[Tammy]

If I ever flip scum having gone off the cliff like I have in this game empire it's the day I give up playing.

I see this kind of thing coming from town more than scum.

[Tammy]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

the deal is meta never has anything to do with "This game" Perhaps it gives credence to perceived tells. But saying so and so did this or that then and is similar now is really not scum hunting. You have been highly defensive and reactive. Your reactions caught my attention in reading through the game. I hate the meta BS cause it has nothing to do with THIS GAME by and large. deal with this game and what is happening. Back and forth on "metanonsense" just really is one's word vs another and rather easy to twist and manipulate by and large. Sure, I have used some meta in past both ways, but not like goes on here and not really used to the he did this in whatever game as each game is treated as a new game. We all generally been playing together for long time as well so there is no need for meta stuff either.

[Tammy]

You were pretty much a universal townread in 501 for most players for most of the game.

Heck, you just said the current Paragon had you as town throughout most of the game. That should say something about your scumgame.

Anyhow, do you think Empire is town or not

Y/N

because all of this seems wishy-washy with how you are still feeling each other out

Bert is amused but confuzzled

I worked my butt off for 501.

Empire is really almost definitely town...we're just feeling each other out because we're nervous.

[Tammy]

Empire - I did make it that far! I'm not saying that the bald eagle's replace out is a slam dunk scum tell, but it is odd. He replaces into this game like immediately. Then he gives some reads, some people pressure him for answers and he replaces out, all while being in the sign up thread for another game saying that just one more person needs to sign up. that reads really suspicious to me. It is especially so with the way that peacebringer replaced in, and I think he still has refused to answer my question, which just says to me that he's not actually reading this game other that what he can tunnel on generic about. And since mara has mentioned having outside contact with pb, his omg stop metaing cuz i don't know anything reads really fake.

[Tammy]

Tammy, Empire, I know you're busy fighting but you both have a town read on Bert, could you please acknowledge my case and/or deny it, I don't think what he's posted is 'solid' and PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style. I also note he's taken back any bad thoughts about Empire because Empire writes like a king. I'd rather try to lynch a weirdo over wallposts anyday. Nacho already gave his opinion, but I think when people hang out too much they can get caught up in meta tells instead of plain mafia r

Desperado: I find townie voting blocks to be offensive in general, and frankly I'm tired of being arbitrarily cut out of them because I'm not cool enough. Did you at least formulate a read on me after those questions or are you taking T/E at their word?

Nah, I think you're seeing an erratic player and not seeing what makes him town.

As far as the townie block being offensive to you. Didn't you suggest one between us in yoloville? What makes desperado's uncool? I'll probably be way more receptive to a desperado less than town read than bert.

[Tammy]

I'm on page 18 and I'm going blah blah blah

[Tammy]

Tammy. You made a comment earlier where you said the arguement was getting to the point where you would have to choose between me and mara, you said you were leaning towards me... But you never made it clear what that meant. I assumed at the time that meant you wanted to lynch me over mara but it was also a reference to choosing sides.

Do what did you mean and why?

i already commented on this. I said that I had to get way more annoyed that the point I was before I would actually vote.

It was a refernce to me being annoyed that the argument was still going on at page 13 and where are we now, oh like 21. Yeah, I'm reachign my point that I care less about alignments than I care about making this end.

[Tammy]

Oksy so here are my thoughts. I will vote either of generic or mara that gets closest to a lynch to make this stop. I don't care what their alignments are; I want it to end.

As far as my actual reads:

empire, bert, nacho, mara, generic, garantula and maybe llamarble and shadoweh are town.

gaiden is mhrmhmrh and lynchable. his replace out is null.

besides that are the peacebringer, purple shoe.

I would most like to lynch peace bringer if i were to change my vote at this time or purple shoe just because i cant' remember a damn thing he did and he's not in my town list.

[Tammy]

and wow i realize that sounds douchey, but it's been 20 damn pages now, 20 pages.

[Tammy]

I didn't realize I forgot him, he was in my null reads. I just don't know what to think. I think some of the things seem townish like "I need to figure out which read I need to talk her out of" but I feel like I have too many town reads and somethings wrong somewhere.

[Tammy]

Kuribo - is there a reason you outed the neighborhood? In the wire when someone asked you to claim, as town neighbor you told them to all in a hole, and only claimed after you saw that your predecessor claimed.

Empire - this was partly why I asked why you chose gaiden. I had the same concern about there being scum in our neighborhood, and as gaiden didn't check into ours, I thought that was suspicious.

[Tammy]

I just wasn't going to out our neighborhood before we actually had a chance to talk as the only thing in there is llamarble and I saying hi.

[Tammy]

Tammy, the reason why I knew baldeagle's replace out was null is because he posted in our neighborhood very confused about what was going on and had no idea what to do.

Ah. That makes more sense now.

[Tammy]

No, im a guest.

[Tammy]

Our neighborhood was pretty active. A lot of my reasons for reading Marangal and PeaceBringer's slot as town come from there.

Actually, that could explain why you saw a lot of weirdness from me this game.

That also explains why you read shadoweh from very little. But it makes me wonder about shadoweh, if you were active and protown then I don't get some of her behavior.

And that also makes sense why you commented on Maria's thing.

[Tammy]

All of us are guests.

[Tammy]

Kuribo - is there a reason you outed the neighborhood? In the wire when someone asked you to claim, as town neighbor you told them to all in a hole, and only claimed after you saw that your predecessor claimed.

because i was asked nicely, unlike in the Wire where camn tried to pull that bullshit trip-up that people do to replacements

Oh okay. In that case I'm happy to help string up the shoe.

VOTE: purple shoe

Also kuribo is right, he replaced out site wide its why I said the replace out was null.

[Tammy]

If you or empire won't look at Generic's interaction with me, will you at least look at his interaction with Nacho and tell me what you think of that?

It's not that I won't look at your interaction with Generic as I have. And I have looked at the interaction with Nacho, but where I'm having a problem is that most of it is related in some sense to you and that's where I'm having a problem getting a handle on it. You are right that his scumhunting is sparse and that he's acting quite emotional. However, I have been in the situation when I've been attacked that I get caught up in defending myself and do that to the exclusion of everything else. Being able to do both is something that I had to work on, so.

But, I will look back at his interaction with Nacho later. I'll try to do it tonight.

[Tammy]

Whatever makes you feel better PB. Cos you basically admitted that you are voting me even if I'm town.

You two need just 5 more to agree with you. And mara then needs to explain yet more lies.

well you have violated game and site rules regarless of your alignment.

Looks like I will be mod killed then doesn't it.

Maybe now you will realise how pissed off I am at the antagonism in this.

You got your wish mara and PB, I won't dvdn get to win with the town.

100% record lost, I will consider leaving MS anyway over this I think...

You're lucky you didn't end up getting modkilled. What you did is akin to the sig bet and people get modkilled for it.

BUT isn't your 100% record a scum record?

[Tammy]

As far as my actual reads:

empire, bert, nacho, mara, generic, garantula and maybe llamarble and shadoweh are town.

gaiden is mhrmhmrh and lynchable. his replace out is null.

besides that are the peacebringer, purple shoe.

I would most like to lynch peace bringer if i were to change my vote at this time or purple shoe just because i cant' remember a damn thing he did and he's not in my town list.

I agree with you that that's too many townreads.

There is something wrong, and I hope you find what you're missing. That's why I feel like at least one of the rather strong players with competent scum games may be universally misread this game. And the paranoia over not having enough people in the pool being genuinely, genuinely scummy to the generic scumhunter like myself. Which is why I'm so paranoid.

Day one tends to be a crapshoot for me. Sometimes I have good reads day one, most day ones however I'm all over the place and need a lynch and nightkill to work with.

[Tammy]

No idea Mr Bert. Just sort of let this game flow by what with all the arguing etc

hey mutley next time you make an alt make sure you don't leave your email address in your profile

thanks in advance

this wasnt' cool.

[Tammy]

Tammy, the reason why I knew baldeagle's replace out was null is because he posted in our neighborhood very confused about what was going on and had no idea what to do.

I was thinking about this and this kinda makes me a little more concerned. A newb town can be just as confused as a newb scum, and if he had a neighborhood he could talk to at night and that had read him as town I wonder why he'd be so overwhelmed.

BUT I can see why he would be scum reading Nacho now for trolling you. He wouldn't have known it wasn't serious and if he'd already kinda felt comfortable with you maybe scum read him because of that.

*waffles*

[Tammy]

That also explains why you read shadoweh from very little. But it makes me wonder about shadoweh, if you were active and protown then I don't get some of her behavior.

Here's the thing: Shadoweh read everyone in our QT as town based on our pre-game posting. If you're scum and you're in a Neighborhood, wouldn't you want to sow some of the paranoia about how "there must be scum in the neighborhood"? It's a great way to subtly cut off open communication in the QT.

Hmm...don't know. It's also equally effective to town read your neighbors and gain trust to get you all to be open. When i shared a neighborhood with MoI in Zach's game, he didn't try to spread paranoia in the neighborhood, he tried to manipulate people in there.

[Tammy]

Why are you trying to be so secretive about the message here?

*sigh*

Because the message was intended for kuribo only. I figured he would get the hint and we would both talk about it in our Neighborhoods. Some things really do NOT need to be talked about openly.

Anyway, since it's now out in the open, my role PM talks about Albert extensively and I've been wondering whether this means anything re: kuribo's alignment. Thoughts?

Possibly... It kind of reminds me of mafia.raptured. In that game my role pm told me that I followed my friend Fia to try to keep her safe. I was vanilla town but technically I was something else as Fia was in the game and when Zdenek claimed, he was basically confirmed town to me and then after I died he was confirmed town to the game.

So, I guess it would depend on the flavor and maybe your neighbors will be helpful in that regard. In my case, the flavor made it really clear to me that my friend Fia was town.

[Tammy]

this wasnt' cool.

then maybe next time he'll provide content on his alt instead of posting useless one-liners

that wouldn't be much different from his main

(sorry couldn't resist)

[Tammy]

[quote="In post 711,

Anyway, since it's now out in the open, my role PM talks about Albert extensively and I've been wondering whether this means anything re: kuribo's alignment. Thoughts?

i don't think it does unless llamarble thinks it does and is town.[/quote]

I don't get it.

[Tammy]

Its not even the town vibes. Its flat out null and now I have been informed who it (potentially) is I don't see anything odd in the play. Mutley is one of the people on MS I have played most games with. Tammy is becoming another but unlike mutely she just seems to hate me.

I don't hate you.

[Tammy]

No idea Mr Bert. Just sort of let this game flow by what with all the arguing etc

hey mutley next time you make an alt make sure you don't leave your email address in your profile

thanks in advance

So, upon waking up something about this struck me as off. I just looked at mutley's profile and bert's, and what I'm guessing you mean is that email button. How did you know, right away, that fattymattyboomboom is mutley's email address, which would identify him as an alt?

i admit I may be going tin foil hat here, but my present working theory is that you knew mutley was in this game and who he was because he's in your scum qt.

[Tammy]

*mutley's and purple shoe's. still not awake.

[Tammy]

I didn't but when he said he alt slipped, I cross referenced to find the slip and found the email address was the same

DGB was caught out the same way in author mafia

Most users hide their email addies

Well yes, it's why mine is hidden.

--------------

Nacho are you sure about the shoe?

[Tammy]

Actually

UNVOTE:

He's at l-1 and I need to think about something. I have errands to run and a lecture to write, so it will have to wait until later.

[Tammy]

Prod dodge. Busy part of my week. Will try to post tonight after work.

[Tammy]

I'm still catching up (on my phone, will finish later tonight) but just wanted to say one thing: Tammy, the flavor in my role PM doesn't tell me that Albert is town, it's just that there's a lot of it about how he's a friend who listens to my character's bullshit stories about travelling and about how I invited him to this Mansion. In fact, there's probably more about him than there is about my character, though I'd have to re-check my role PM when I get back home. There just seems to be a heavy implication that the role is town.

What did you think about kuribo's rage in this game and the replace out. In that I'm wondering if you think it's alignment indicative, not asking to gossip :p

[Tammy]

Or maybe there are none, with the assumption that we'll start lynching neighbour members out of paranoia. Or the neighbourhoods were completely random and using them as lynching reasons is the same as rolling three 13-sided dice randomly and picking those people to lynch. Granted that wouldn't be much different from regular Day 1's but still.

*goes and checks my dice collection*

I have no 13-sided dice.

I feel cheated.

*pout*

[Tammy]

Okay so I'm not really sure what I want to do. I still have too many townreads. Ill reread through desperado again but I might sheep nacho/llamarble there just because I don't know what else to do and I don't think the shoe is going to flip scum and nobody else is suspicious of the peacebringer slot.

Llamarble is starting to hit the adorableness factor in some of his posts which I associate with him being town. Empire/nacho what are your updated reads on marble?

I don't really have much else to say.

[Tammy]

What did you think about kuribo's rage in this game and the replace out. In that I'm wondering if you think it's alignment indicative, not asking to gossip :p

(Realtalk, I'd never gossip about that stuff, what Garantula did was way out of line.)

Anyway, some thoughts I jotted down about kuribo while rereading him in ISO and considering your question:
1) The rage regarding kuribo's personal life is not alignment indicative since it has nothing to do with this game, and thus, he'd be pissed regardless (I would be too).
2) The replace out could be town as town tend to usually be the ones who feel the need to jot down their final thoughts in a last ditch attempt to help the town. However, thinking about it, I've seen this from scum enough to the point where I don't consider that tell completely reliable.
3) The self meta in #868 could actually be a thing. Kuribo's a really paranoid guy, so I can imagine him always claiming a visiting role as scum due to the fear that he'll be tracked/watched/etc. I haven't gone out and checked how he interacts with his scum partners but he vaguely seems like the guy who would turbo bus his whole team at the drop of a hat.
?

oh yeah, i should have filled in my question. The gar stuff I think he would have raged at regardless of alignment; i know I would too. But, what I was trying to figure out with him was the rage at the purple shoe and before. I went back and read the comments after fortnight where oversoul said he was able to figure out the rage was fake, but I still couldn't decide. I do remember in The Wire how he did fake rage to push for reactions, so I suppose that could have been going on here, but it did seem kinda over the top with the shoe.

As far as the vanilla claim, I went back to a md thread in which he said that he wouldn't fake claim as vanilla as scum because that would box him in and he couldn't maneuver around that, so I started feeling better there. But then I remembered him mentioning in a discussion thread that since his meta is not to claim vanilla as scum that he might do it the next time he drew scum and then he said he was certain that the next time he claimed vanilla that someone would pull up that thread and post to call him scum for. :/ I can't remember what thread that's in and don't have time stalking everyone to find that.

Basically, I was leaning town on him but was all kinds of concerned because I wouldn't put anything past him as scum. Though I agree with you that his replace out post where he gave his reads look townish. But I do agree that he seems to be a turbo busser; he said as much and I actually believe that much of his self meta.

[Tammy]

But, what I was trying to figure out with him was the rage at the purple shoe and before. I went back and read the comments after fortnight where oversoul said he was able to figure out the rage was fake, but I still couldn't decide. I do remember in The Wire how he did fake rage to push for reactions, so I suppose that could have been going on here, but it did seem kinda over the top with the shoe.

Well, what do you think about the fact that his replace out post had him as town despite his earlier push? Do you think that read shift was more borne out of convenience/opportunism? My gut says no precisely because he replaced out (but see: "Scum Replace Outs and You").

The main reason I have him filed away right now is because of his claim and I'm still thinking about it + what my flavor means. The "I never fakeclaim VT as scum" thing is a bonus but I wouldn't really put anything past kuribo either given the crazy shit he's done in the past.

I vaguely remember the thread you're talking about and I might go mine for it later when I'm not a borderline zombie.

I completely forgot that he relented and changed his read on Shoe. I mean I can see that coming from town kuribo definitely. I can see if from scum kuribo, but I'm leaning towards it more coming from town him?

What I was mostly interested in was your take on the rage. It was something I was going to ask you about anyway as it didn't feel like the rage he had with benmage upon replacing into The Wire. And my first knee jerk reaction was the he was scum trying to mimic his rage, but then I remembered him asking in the neighborhood who he should fake rage at to try to provoke some reactions when we were all waffling about who the last scum were. So, I know he's perfectly capable at faking it for funsies to shake some trees.

Anyway, I was leaning town from the whole affair, which is just going to be my default alignment apparently this game.

Why did baldeagle come off as confused newbtown and not confused newbscum?

[Tammy]

Qwints - Is there a reason you are zeroing in on Generic not voting but haven't said a word about the fact that neither Empire or I are voting either?

[Tammy]

I will probably vote desperado, but I need to run some errands and don't want to put him at L-1 right now. Be back in a bit!

[Tammy]

nacho - did you answer my question about your updated read on 'marble?

[Tammy]

I'll reread the Qwints slot though; I don't get why it's town.

Please be town llamarble. Then we can hold hands and scum read this slot together. I just don't want the only other person scum reading this slot to be scum

[Tammy]

FINE

VOTE: desperado

You're right empire that does feel kinda icky.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: What about Generic and I? You aren't even voting for it

It's not going to happen today.

[Tammy]

Nacho you don't think that desperados reaching out to me about his reads seemed townish? I just liked the "I'm trying to figure out which read to talk Tammy out of thing" :/

[Tammy]

Deadline is in less than a day, you don't start a new wagon if you don't have the momentum for it. Sometimes you have to compromise, go with what the best lynch you can get is, trust your town reads and hope for the best.

[Tammy]

VOTE: qwints

I still like this read and is one 'marble and I agreed on in the neighborhood. Bye Llamarble

[Tammy]

Well inte said that you're not mentioned very much in his role pm. Just that you invited us here. But I've been thinking a lot about that slot and kuribo and I'm thinking that he's more likely town. I found that thread that I talked about before and it's here. Rereading through that thread, he talks about how he rages at people to get reactions, so it's really possible what I was reading as fake rage ala fortnight with the shoe was fake but not the fake scum type but the fake town type to get reactions. Inte didn't talk a lot but he did post something and 'marble thought that it sounded a little townish. But 'marble did ask inte to full claim in the neighborhood and he didn't.

As far as anything else we just talked about reads, but we weren't really active. He really suspects Shadoweh based on a lack of town tells and thinks that her showdown with Bert could just be her making a stand to look town. Beyond that the people he wanted to reread and thought were interesting were qwints, shoe and inte and had slight bad feelings about Garantula and Mara. He didn't respond to my comment that I would find it weird for Shoe to make the blacklisting comment as scum though.

Why do you think your neighborhood is clean due to Desperado's fake claim?

[Tammy]

Okay, but when we talked about Desperado in the neighborhood we came to the conclusion that he was an sk cuz he was death aligned with death. If that's the case, then nobody is clear from that.

[Tammy]

Okay, but when we talked about Desperado in the neighborhood we came to the conclusion that he was an sk cuz he was death aligned with death. If that's the case, then nobody is clear from that.

Going to bed again right now (yeah yeah...), but I was thinking about this and thought two things:

1) The Llamarble N1 kill feels like it came from scum that was self-conscious about his interactions with Desperado and how it would clear him. I think if it's Desperado-SK, the scum team would have been less inclined to have killed him off because he wasn't really a strong universal townread.
2) If Desperado were SK, why would he claim self-watcher? That just seems like a really dumb thing to claim as SK considering that it's not a high utility town PR and it's not long term.

@mod - I will be V/LA until Thursday or Friday due to a bunch of personal stuff. I'll try to post whenever I can. Apologies for the inconvenience.

But it would also clear nacho and potentially Mara. It's just as likely that he wasn't going to get healed last night or was on base with his suspects or they suspected him of being town power holding back some.

Maybe he did have a self watching ability. He could have easily claimed a useless power role because who's going to kill that? Claim anything with actual power and he's a nightkill target, bad for an sk.

I mean I guess we won't be sure until we get more flips, but you're also writing off quints here when bald eagle might not have realized the implications and warned his partners anyway, so even if he's not an sk it doesn't mean everyone in your neighborhood is clear.

[Tammy]

I think it is my lot to be lynchbait whenever I play with you guys. The only time someone consistently likes me is when they're scum.

? This doesn't even make sense. And I consistently liked you in ADwD (until the last day) and you ripped my heart out by being an evil killer who killed me.

[Tammy]

Tammy, what's the rationale behind Desperado SK other than him being death?

Him being death aligned with death was the rationale behind it.

[Tammy]

hello matt

So, you're paying enough attention to pop in and say hi to someone replacing in, but can't be bothered to give any thoughts on the game?

[Tammy]

VOTE: qwints

I still like this read and is one 'marble and I agreed on in the neighborhood. Bye Llamarble

Why did Marble find qwints scum?

Part of it he felt awkward saying but it had to do with peacebringer wanting a modkill on generic and qwints opting out of a deadline extension. He felt bad about scum reading him for that though. Also, he was considering the purple shoe wagon and thought that there was at least one scum in [Shoe, inte, and qwints]. And he thought that qwints was the best bet out of those. He thought that shadoweh and qwints worked really well as a pair. I told him about one of my reasons being that the way both immediately attacked generic, and he said he could see where I was coming from. I asked him what he thought about shadoweh and qwints being neighbors though and if he really thought they'd both be in the same neighborhood but he didn't answer me on that one.

Rereading through that thread, he talks about how he rages at people to get reactions, so it's really possible what I was reading as fake rage ala fortnight with the shoe was fake but not the fake scum type but the fake town type to get reactions.

I don't think that's a good reason to call kuribo town. His fake rage is essentially a reaction test and he's aware that he does it as town and thus it's not that hard for him to replicate it as scum.

What did you think about my other reasons though?

[Tammy]

Town cop. Her hints and sudden change of opinion on me is bullshit otherwise. She is either guaranteed scum or she copped me.

I won't risk pushing to lynch a cop, so I move on. Your answering me with a deflection and change of subject is atrocious btw. Your turn to answer me.

[Tammy]

I need to get my thoughts together; hopefully later tonight.

[Tammy]

Okay here's part of my problem with this game. I'm having a problem with the other neighborhood. You guys are acting like you've got a four person mason team over there, and so to suspect anyone in that neighborhood feels like it's being met with "oh no just trust me". I don't trust any of y'all though. I would trust empire if his head was more in the game, but it's not. Also, people can manipulate you in neighborhoods, and it's not like you chose those people to be in a neighborhood so you're scumhunting them or masonizing with them. No, it was all random at the start of the game. And what you're basically doing is jamming up the game hiding behind the neighborhood.

Do you really think the scum team is nachomamma and Garantula? Because that's what I'm looking at if the neighborhood is clear.

[Tammy]

Good luck getting any of those reads to go through. All of your scum reads are in the other neighborhood and they're all insisting they're all town for mysterious reasons and we're just supposed to trust them.

[Tammy]

Good luck getting any of those reads to go through. All of your scum reads are in the other neighborhood and they're all insisting they're all town for mysterious reasons and we're just supposed to trust them.

Oh my fucking god.

This post exists for a fucking reason. Read it.

I don't trust any of you in the neighborhood.

[Tammy]

and btw I've read that post several times. It still doesn't make me trust you all. We're supposed to believe you're a four person mason team? Because if that is the case, then I can see an SK or a really powerful scum team.

And if that's the case, I don't see a scum team that doesn't include nacho.

[Tammy]

I want you to look at the choice words I use when defending Qwints, look at the strength of my defense, compared to the D1 defense of my sisters and ask yourself how one could get that strength of a read

ROLE INFORMATION

THANK YOU AT LEAST ONE FUCKING PLAYER IN THIS GAME ACTUALLY CAN READ BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES

ANYONE CAN READ BETWEEN THE LIINES. I. DON'T. TRUST. YOUR. NEIGHBORHODD.

[Tammy]

Because seriously if you're a mason neigbhorhood, I don't see the scum team being anyone but nacho/projectmatt now, with and outside chance of inte. And that doesn't make sense to me.

[Tammy]

And if you're a mason neighborhood there's no reason not to out it, because we can lynch through the rest, good game.

[Tammy]

Empire, why are you townreading Shadoweh?

It's a bunch of other stuff that I really don't want to get into at this time (though I will say that it has nothing to do with my role or hers). After Marangal says what she has to say, then I'll speak.

I already feel fucking awful for blowing up but I just wasn't in the mood to deal with this shit after the Xenologue game.

yeah, I followed that game and watched mara get manipulated like hell in the neighborhood, forgive me for not just trusting what she says about her neighbors this time.

And you guys clamming up about your neighborhood isn't helping the game at all. I don't want what happened in xeno to happen here, and you guys just shutting down any conversation about the people in your neighborhood isn't helping. If you're all town, we need to know why because we need to start looking elsewhere if so.

[Tammy]

FINE

UNVOTE: /unvote]
VOTE: shadoweh

[Tammy]

Then do you agree with me that if it's not anyone in your neighborhood then it's nacho and project matt with an outside chance of inte?

[Tammy]

Also, Shadoweh's at L-2 right now and I'm about to head out for the night, so if we could please not run her up before this gets sorted out (well, I'd prefer her not getting run up period), that would be pretty phenomenal.

And see this is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Tammy]

Because if we look at it this way:

Shadoweh
Mara
Empire
Qwints
Tammy

all town

then we're left with

bert - have a hard time seeing him as scum
generic - have a hard time seeing him as scum
purple shoe - blacklist comment? useless sure, scum eh.

inte
projectmatt
nacho

Is that really the scum team? Does that feel right to you?

[Tammy]

inte
projectmatt
nacho

Are you townreading nacho, Tammy?

I want the truth.

I have reservations about nacho. I want nacho to be town, and I don't know if I believe he's scum with desperado. Yes, bussing, but there's just something that makes me think that wasn't a bus. I don't really feel comfortable town reading nacho this early though.

[Tammy]

No, I'm still in there will inte.

[Tammy]

*with inte

[Tammy]

I want to give the thread another once over with a clear head because something just doesn't feel right with this game.

Now maybe you can see where I'm coming from. Something doesn't feel right. If we set aside nacho, and I agree that something is nagging at me about it not being a bus, then we're left with inte, shoe, project matt as the most likely.

Bert feels town to me, and if nacho is town I expect him to be able to read bert. But, I'm having a big problem with thinking that he made the game this breakable, you know?

[Tammy]

Then that opens another avenue...

You are gonna break my heart ain't ya tammy? First you make it clear you hate me in every game we participate in, now you are playing a superior scum gambit... *sob*

Absolutely not. And I don't hate you. I already said, I don't hate anyone. I never even scum read you; I only said I'd be willing to vote you because you were the most likely to be lynched and stop the nonstop argument from day one. That might have felt personal to you, but it was just completely practical for me. The argument has stopped eating the thread; I'm nowhere even close to considering that anymore.

I wish I were capable of playing a superior scum gambit. You've seen my scum game; it's not that good at all. Besides, I tend to fake very very little when I'm scum because I feel like every post I make is easily read as fake to begin with so I don't even really try. Maybe one day I could fake paranoia and frustration, but not today.

How early in the chat did mara claim, how active was inte in the chat in Tammys hood... What did marble say in the chat?
Tammys hood now is similar to what I had I as I'm game where I was mafia neighbouriser. I had one player I chatted to that I manipulated for the win. In a hood like Tammys if she is scum she would have two votes to control with inte on side. But that's tin foil hat level theory and I hope it's not true cos its ballsy and next level gaming to win if true.

I think I've talked about everything that marble talked about in the neighborhood. Nacho asked me and empire asked me. Inte spoke very very little. All he said was that he was nervous that there was scum in our neighborhood, marble asked him to full claim, and he didn't. He made an ate'ish type post that marble thought was kinda townie. I don't have inte's vote to control though; I don't even know where inte stands about anything. It's unfortunate that kuribo is gone as I feel like I'd have a better handle on that slot if kuribo stayed in the game. We've been neighbors before and I have an idea for what to expect.

[Tammy]

Here is my tinfoil hat theory: How many games don't have fake claims nowadays? Has anyone played a FakeGod game? Does he not give fakeclaims? So, if desperado was given April Wingate Town Self-Watcher as his fakeclaim, why was he given one that would be so easily blown apart? Could the scum team have planned that whole thing to make Mara look good? I mean, it just feels weird.

Just something isn't adding up here.

[Tammy]

Yeah the shadoweh is town because mara is alive line is weak. I wouldn't be afraid to leave mara alive as scum. No offense <3

[Tammy]

Lovers can be of opposing alignments.

[Tammy]

And I don't give a crap about your cryptic answers. I. don't. trust. your. neighborhood.

How many more times do i have to say it.

[Tammy]

Your *love* could have killed Lord Wingate for the estate you know >->

Just like Albert could be listening to May's stories to get access to the mansion or whatever to kill Lord Wingate.

[Tammy]

Top secret technical analysis (TM) reveals:

Town:
Empire and Nacho

Prob Town:
Inte and Desparado

Prob scum: Generic, PurpleShoe

Fundamental Analysis begins now.

If you guys know each other are town, how come qwints didn't list you in his first reads post?

[Tammy]

SXTLHGaiden- want to hear more from
Llamarble- no idea
TheGarantula- seems basic noob
PeaceBringer- Good Guy, Town
Empire- too much meta for me, but seems townish to me
Nachomamma8- pushing and prodding- townish
Tammy- gives me the heebies
Bert- a fisherman-town
Ms Marangal- town
Generic-probably is as claimed at this point- modkill
Desperado- eye brow raising, not quite alarming
The Purple Shoe- heebie jeebies, lurking, not engaging
Shadoweh- seems to be working for town

at least pb called you town after repeatedly being asked for his reads; i will give him this he sure did go after generic just like you did.

[Tammy]

so mara then "oh potent thread to scum"

What do you think of my proposal that if you're entire neighborhood is town, scum are in nacho and project matt with an outside chance of inte?

[Tammy]

I'M VOTING SHADOWEH

*gosh*

[Tammy]

I'm still not going to stop my scum read on qwints though

[Tammy]

Why projectmatt over inte?

[Tammy]

though, I think I want shoe before I want Nacho

See, there's this thing that i look for for nacho to be town. I rarely see it early, and he fooled me in the abandoned game cuz he came up with a really plausible fake claim for that game, but there's just something that I really can't vocalize, but I haven't seen it yet.

[Tammy]

Lovers *can* be of opposing alignment, but they do tend to die together.

[Tammy]

and with mara refusing to be forthright and open even though why shouldn't she be, it's frustrating

if she's reading the damn game, we've already decided that things should be made a little more clear to make sense of a game that just cannot be this easy to break but she's still playing games.

[Tammy]

okay let's think about this:

mm has a mason lover with qwints, they die together

shadoweh is slated to die at the end of the day for whatever reason (if something happened to you please explain)

inte makes a comment about there being lots of town power EVEN though his predecessor claimed vanilla and there was no claiming in our neighborhood

WTF I don't know what to think anymore nacho why did you just flip from projectmatt to inte?

[Tammy]

OH YOU POISONED SHADOWEH???

[Tammy]

Okay well that means there are no fakeclaims I guess

[Tammy]

VOTE: inte

[Tammy]

erm

VOTE: nacho

[Tammy]

I don't know what to think right now, but yes, I think it might be.

[Tammy]

...um...

[Tammy]

or in otherwords, i've had wine and can't make rational decisions right now

[Tammy]

Can someone explain if it's balanced or it makes sense in any way to have a town vig be mason lovers with someone?

Like my problem is not with mara being town, but mara thinking qwints is town when he's not

because is it seriously just as easy as it's nacho and qwints/inte?

[Tammy]

*project matt/inte

[Tammy]

Tammy, I was weirded out by the claim too and both Shadoweh and I asked her to clarify more than once (especially because qwints' play is uh...underwhelming to say the least). But she insists she is reading it right.

I...don't trust mara.

[Tammy]

i think she's a poisoner, but I don't trust her. She's probably town, but I still don't trust her.

[Tammy]

i think that mara is town...i don't trust that she's not reading into her role pm things that aren't there though.

sorry mara, i just don't.

[Tammy]

NACHO - HOW COME YOU HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THE FACT THAT I'M VOTING YOU??????

[Tammy]

how open are you suggesting?

[Tammy]

if we mass claim, i want to go lastish

[Tammy]

his string of posts included him saying that he thought desperado was sk flavor, that he thought it was a 3 man group or was being paranoid, and that he was "feely", both marble and I asked him why he came into the game and immediately called me scum but he didn't answer. Then marble asked him to claim and he didn't answer. Then he said he was working a lot of hours and he didn't read the whole game started skimming at some point, you were mentioned in his role pm but not a lot, basically as just the person to invite us, and figured we were the others mentioned in his role pm (which makes sense, albert and aetis are mentioned in mine.

[Tammy]

well I'll keep that to myself for right now, if that's all right.

[Tammy]

generic has claimed servant, vt and so has bert right?

I'm good with either of nacho or shadoweh claiming and popcorning

I'd say inte, but who knows when he's going to show up.

[Tammy]

uh uh no, we're gonna have a fight

qwints and shadoweh are claiming.

and i'm not claiming before they do.

[Tammy]

empire's claiming too sorry

this is my problem with your damn neighborhood

[Tammy]

inte
projectmatt
The Purple Shoe
Nachomamma8
Tammy

I don't think anyone else needs to claim

Generic already Servant IIRC

LIKE DO YOU FUCKING SEE WHAT MY PROBLEM HAS BEEN. IT'S YOUR DAMN NEIGHBORHOOD. STOP LOCKING UP THE DAMN GAME

[Tammy]

like seriously, you ask why the hell i don't trust you, funny how not one person there is on the claim list, and how none of you need to claim by her standards. nope nope can't understand why i don't trust the lot of you.

[Tammy]

no one else claim cuz this is fucking bullshit.

[Tammy]

Yeah whatever, I'm not claiming now, you guys can have a merry party and if you're claims run counter to what I have or have seen then I'll mention it, but not fucking interested.

[Tammy]

I claimed already, what more do you want from me ;_; IM DYING FOR YOU ALREADY TAMMY

You're not dying for me.

[Tammy]

So you're going to lock up the game yourself because just one player is suggesting something different?

I. DON'T. TRUST. YOUR. NEIGHBORHOOD.

[Tammy]

So you're going to lock up the game yourself because just one player is suggesting something different?

Do you happen to notice that the person from your neighborhood, i don't trust anyway, is suggesting noone from your neighborhood has to claim? Uh Uh no. I'm not a big fan of early mass claims in the first damn place, and this is just setting off all of my alarms.

There is no way in hell, I'm going to claim what I know from me or from the neighborhood when you're neighborhood has been left out.

NO. WAY. IN. FUCKING. HELL.

[Tammy]

she suggested your neighborhood not claim. I'm not agreeing to that shit nor should anyone else.

I don't see how you dont' see the problem with that

[Tammy]

and i don't see how you thought i jsut willy nilly didn't have problems with mass claiming either. i certainly didn't jump up and say yay! let's do it, and you know me well enough to know that i don't think that mass claims on day two are the greatest idea anyway.

Why aren't you addressing mara and her ridiculous notion that everyone else but your neighborhood should claim anyway. Oh wait, right, your neighborhood, forgot that rules all this game.

[Tammy]

I might be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was a game ran with town lovers

this statement right here tells me she's not sure qwints is town.

[Tammy]

You know what, fuck it, if the rest of you don't want to claim, then whatever. I brought up the idea after thinking about it for most of today hoping that it would put us a step closer to winning the game. It's not like I've been exactly stellar this game anyway so just ignore me.

Going to bed for real now.

it has nothing to do with you empire. it's, once again, I can't trust people from your neighborhood. sure shadoweh claimed, and from what she's said she's probably flipping town unless she just decided to be comical for the scummy lulz. but again, you're neighborhood is trying to obstruct things, and I'm not going to be a part of it.

did you notice that nacho is still ignoring that i'm voting for him and that if you all are clear, he's probably scum? what do you think of that?

[Tammy]

mine does too bert

[Tammy]

Whoop de doo

Can you vote nacho now?

[Tammy]

qwintz:

Is Marangal also confirmed town to you?

Yes.

If that's the case, why didn't you have her as town in you're preliminary list?

[Tammy]

If you're meaning to reply to me, there everything to gain.

Mind voting for nacho?

[Tammy]

Sorry for my tantrum last night. It was just really frustrating that when we finally were going to get some cooperation from the neighborhood it got shot down. Generic, I didn't refuse to claim AT ALL, I was refusing to claim in the situation where only a portion of the town was claiming. I'm not overly happy with the idea of a massclaim in the first place.

Also shadoweh shold have let us know she had been poisoned and would be dead by the end of the day. She didn't need to tell us by who, but that should have been information that was shared. Also this will be moot because it will be clear by end of day anyway, but Mara not dying doesn't clear shadoweh. It would have brought suspicion on her to kill Mara anyway. The only reason Mara would have died that night would have been because of her role which was only known in the neighborhood so it would have led right back there.

As far as whether or not an sk would exist with a poisoner, I have no idea. I wouldn't also expect the poisoner to be a mason lover. As far as nacho bussing? Idk, but I don't like his lack of reaction to Bert voting him or me. I would have expected something, but nothing.

[Tammy]

I'm running out for a bit so can't comment on anything until then, but I'd really like to go last. Or if not last, I'm only partial claiming until everyone else goes.

Also, inte should be due for a prod or a replacement if he's not going to so a damn thing, and we have no way of knowing if hell actually claim if he shows up seeing as how he ignored it in the neighborhood.

He back in a little bit.

[Tammy]

Am I getting in the way of your crusade against the claimed since Night 0 to me mason lover poisoner? I'm rolling my eyes so hard at you right now. What pray tell would be helpful to you?

You do realize that he's gotten over that right? Are you reading the game? If not, why not?

Also, as to your earlier question, yes, I thought that. Every game I've been in with a poisoner, the poisoned person has gotten a message.

[Tammy]

ok bert i will talk to tammy

TAMMY WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME

partially paranoia. partially gut. partially that you didn't respond to bert at all when he voted you.

[Tammy]

shadoweh true talk time. are you going to flip scum?

i have a theory based on the claims that might make inte more likely scum if shadoweh is :/

[Tammy]

that's my theory. a role in the neighborhood, a scum in the neighborhood, but then there should also be a role in the servants for true like balance or some shit.

[Tammy]

Sorry for my tantrum last night. It was just really frustrating that when we finally were going to get some cooperation from the neighborhood it got shot down. Generic, I didn't refuse to claim AT ALL, I was refusing to claim in the situation where only a portion of the town was claiming. I'm not overly happy with the idea of a massclaim in the first place.

I'm not a great fan of massclaiming early either but I felt that was the best option given the game state and what we could stand to gain from it. Just please don't impute the behavior of one of us to the entire Neighborhood.
Remind me at some point to summarize the QT (it's not particularly interesting now that you know Marangal's claim but there might be something important I'm overlooking?).

As far as Nacho goes, Tammy, I honestly just don't even know any more. I need to give him another reread when I have a clear head but he looked town to me the last I checked. Maybe we're overlooking someone else?

Yeah, this wasn't fair of me. I tend to get really irrational when I'm frustrated though so

[Tammy]

ok bert i will talk to tammy

TAMMY WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME

partially paranoia. partially gut. partially that you didn't respond to bert at all when he voted you.

[Tammy]

No, I am eloquently expressing my displeasure with family buisness.
Right now people are mostly waiting for claims anyways. Spamming the thread up seems counterproductive.

Uh huh...uh huh...people most dissatisfied with their family are more likely to kill them for their estate.

What are your thoughts???