Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Generic]

vote mara

Colo scum

[Generic]

You are way off. It was mara.

[Generic]

I've never drawn scum in a hydra.

Liar. Did you forget I was in this?

Also, when I switch to laptop I will give a filler reason, but a couple of empires posts feel forced and one or two people have come in to gang up on nacho since he pointed to empire... Something feels off, but I am hesitant to believe people on mafia scum would so obviously chainsaw or town clear a scum buddy on day 1... Distancing and bussing all day long, but blatant buddy work? Not so sure.

Bald eagle, do you want to break down the reasons for a scum read on nacho? That doesn't require him to respond first, so what are you seeing?

[Generic]

Filler = fuller

[Generic]

Shadoweh, you are remarkably aggressive over my comments. Overreaction to one person agreeing with nacho on empire, when as you state 5 people is it (most of the game then) are against him over it. And mara naked voted from my comments, so make that six keen to defend empire.

But if you are going to attack me over my post, do you want to try and attack something I actually said? I never called the chainsaw ing fake, I called it obvious. Why would anyone fake chainsaw? It's chainsaw defending no matter whether mafia are doing it or town, the only difference is the motive.

I called empires posts forced, is that what you were trying to get at in the blind rate of rushing to his defence?

No, I think I'm on to something, and when I'm off the phone and onto a laptop I can properly ISOsnalyse the opening.

Liking tammy though (not in that way, I'm a married man).
Tammy, what are your early thoughts?

[Generic]

Rate = rage

[Generic]

Wow, ask a guy a simple question and he quits!

Well I see only one obvious chainsaw which was mara, one over the top display with voting nacho which is shadowed, and bald eagle placing suspicion on nacho without reasons...

So at best I count 3, and even that's a reach... Where are these 5 people chainsawing for empire?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

Mara, empire and shadoweh is my early call, and if that's right then they are in serious trouble early on because of how easily all three overreact.

[Generic]

Still not pointing to where I commented on fake chainsawing.

Will add to that now where I said I was a scum hunting god. By pointing out early suspects I'm giving you an inferiority complex?

And I don't think anyone is terrible, but clearly tiredness has you all over the place which is when scum flips occur.

Your flips to me ate an over reaction to my posts, involvement with me before I had even named names (paranoia?), and then deliberate misrepresentations which when questioned you change the direction of the subject and cherry pick what to respond to.

I know mara and I know she would look for an opportunity to vote for me when it seemed most likely it wouldn't get labelled OMGUS. She can talk endlessly so her naked vote means she hasn't managed to cobble together yet a convincing reason that I wouldn't pick apart right now and so I expect her to return later with that reason.

I don't care how nice or nasty you are, when you bring something legitimate to the table on topic then we have a discussion, name calling to avoid my questions just further clarified you are not coping under scrutiny.

[Generic]

Flips = slips

[Generic]

Reading mara on ms will be different to how you will need to read her with me. I'm not ms residency yet having only completed 4 games here so mara and me are likely to take this down a colo path.

But she doesn't want that cos it will alienate any friend cred she can exploit here.

And you can choose to belittle my early suspects with a hand wave reasoning but I never left my pressure on mara, I began to case nacho after a simple push by nacho brought a weird tide of negativity on him and you over reacted and followed it up with avoidance and a forced emo play.

Still waiting for you to answer my questions btw, in case you thought your attemp to steer the topic was successful.

Pedit: posting this mara then reading your response. Such a wall deserves a proper analysis and not a quick pedit remark

[Generic]

Wow, ask a guy a simple question and he quits!

Well I see only one obvious chainsaw which was mara, one over the top display with voting nacho which is shadowed, and bald eagle placing suspicion on nacho without reasons...

So at best I count 3, and even that's a reach... Where are these 5 people chainsawing for empire?

Early opinion is I laughably nailed down the first scum by accident in RVS, and since then one over reacted to nacho and the other overreacted to me and nacho.

Mara, empire and shadoweh is my early call, and if that's right then they are in serious trouble early on because of how easily all three overreact.

I'm fair sure there is some kind of saying that goes something along the lines of "The expertise of the pupil is reflective of the masters Skill"

I learned everything from you, my scum game and my town game so, considering that you think that I would make myself so incredibly transparent early on, react this way to my buddy as scum, as well as potentially out myself this early on might say something about you...

at you also know my tendencies as scum better than most of the people here and, you know that, instinctively, I tend to bus so calling my action a "blatant chain-saw" is amusingly strange.

My vote was Naked for a reason, I might have had a good reason for doing it, I might have not but you coming up with possible reasons I could of had has a real distinct smell of Scum already looking of ways that they could cover their tracks.

I could have given a reason then, but Baiting you on giving your own reasons for why your actions are scummy, and why you think I do certain things would give me way more information from you

Probably not, but that doesn't surprise me all that much. YOU not having anything but fluff to contribute is slightly more concerning.

Hmmm?

You didn't seem all that concerned when I had taken a while to actually post something worthwhile. I had spent the first couple pages of that game Trolling and writing up shit worths of stuff and you never took a second glance towards me

As your old mr for you disappoint me here. Deflection of your play reflecting mine to back me into a for we whereby if I accuse you of sloppy play I myself am sloppy.

Strike 1

Then you play on self meta to point out you aren't playing the scum game you always do. So in the first instance you want me to respect you are more intelligent than to make it I vinous, but in the next breath you are saying if you were scum it would be painfully obvious? And that's before I point out the fact you are telling me how you would act as scum, so why would you act that way if you know that's your scum game?

Strike 2.

And then, and this is my personal favourite, you excuse your naked vote on me as a reaction test, one which baits analysis and then because I speculated I must be scum.
I knew you would struggle for a reason mara, but that was a reach even for you. And to claim a reaction test against me, you and I know that was never gonna fly even if this line of conversation will seem like we are in our own little club here.
And the key thing about that post. Not once do you comment on my posts before your vote. This was the opportunity to say you had suspicions cos of x, y and z and thought you would reaction test me to gain further clarity on the case, but you decide to self meta, defend your play and then defend your naked vote.

Strike 3 - vote is sticking where it is.

Far too much self awareness, no analysis of anyone around or even me who this was aimed at, all a self analysis to excuse your actions.

[Generic]

*as your old mentor

See why I like to wait for laptop use when I type lots... Bloody phone is shit for fast typing

[Generic]

***
As your old mentor you disappoint me here. Deflection of your play reflecting mine to back me into a corner whereby if I accuse you of sloppy play I myself am sloppy.

[Generic]

Why are you still trying to sell your behaviour?

This is the point I'm making, your focus had been 100% on how this is your town game and explaining exactly what you do in your scum game.

That alone is grounds for suspicion, but add into they your response when asked about your suspicions and any sort if case was "I have suspicions, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give them out freely".
That means that you have nothing or you are keen not to be drawn on any specific players so you don't implicate teammates. Shady stuff purple.

[Generic]

Shadoweh tracked me. His paranoia isn't my concern, him being scum is.

And believe me I'm not being cocky, I'm just pointing to obvious suspicions which indicate early scum tells. Your suspicion of me came after you voted by your last comment. Which means you are either making the answer up now subsequent to your actions, or you like shadoweh had assumed I was referring to him which to me points to a guilty conscience only found in those who know who the scum are.

So which is it mara? An ill thought out vote you are now scrambling to justify or a guilty conscience?

[Generic]

Also, did you really think scare mongering me with what you expect 'town gen' to do was going to make me panic about how I look? I'm more concerned with applying pressure to suspects than what I look like.

Self awareness is scums objective, mine is to find them.

[Generic]

Assumption. I've played over 60 games across three different sites.

13 man game, 2 would mean scum need a minimum of 5 mislynches to win, if it was 4 mafia then they only need 3.

And I've been mafia in 3 out of the 4 completed games on MS, I think I got a grasp on how you guys split these things.

[Generic]

If you insist on trying to meta me desp, shitty jokes mafia in little Italy and duck duck goose mafia in Central Park I was also mafia.

Only completed town game I have is bad idea micro, but it's awful for gaining information from cos I forgot about it got two day phases, returned to shoot a town player immediately before forcing the lady scum to commit in game suicide...

Best bet for deciding if im town or scum is to see firstly whether the cases I have made make sense, and then are they loaded with misrepresentations/steering questions.

[Generic]

* Only completed town game I have is bad idea micro, but it's awful for gaining information from cos I forgot about it for two day phases, returned to shoot a town player immediately before forcing the last scum to commit in game suicide...

[Generic]

No, my case against mara is based on her focusing entirely on her own meta and her own appearance. It's also based on her voting for me without a reason which she was reluctant to give and when she did it was based on things that were posted after the vote. So either she is psychic or making it up subsequently.
It's mara attempting to make this about previous knowledge, she keeps coming back to it. And the reason is she is trying to AtE and box in my accusations.

But all of this was explained at the time, you are either skimming or deliberately misrepresenting me. One is sloppy, the other is scummy, neither are particularly helpful.

[Generic]

Assumption. I've played over 60 games across three different sites.

13 man game, 2 would mean scum need a minimum of 5 mislynches to win, if it was 4 mafia then they only need 3.

And I've been mafia in 3 out of the 4 completed games on MS, I think I got a grasp on how you guys split these things.

also a bit scummy. # of games played is irrevlevant. FYI I have been playing this game in one for or another far longer and far more games. Whoopie do dah day. Start trumping your history over nothing to try and give self cred...

Are you aware of what I was answering there?

It was relevant to the question asked, especially given the person who asked it was satisfied with the answer.

[Generic]

If you insist on trying to meta me desp, shitty jokes mafia in little Italy and duck duck goose mafia in Central Park I was also mafia.

Only completed town game I have is bad idea micro, but it's awful for gaining information from cos I forgot about it got two day phases, returned to shoot a town player immediately before forcing the lady scum to commit in game suicide...

Best bet for deciding if im town or scum is to see firstly whether the cases I have made make sense, and then are they loaded with misrepresentations/steering questions.

this is a post that rang alarm bells in my head upon reading

If you break down why we can discuss it, otherwise this is just a sweeping statement.

[Generic]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

No, My suspicion came right when I voted for you otherwise I wouldn't have done so, but you trying to paint that naked vote as scummy before I explained it made that suspicion stronger. as did you pre-planning every little attack you would have on a person

and yes, you are playing your cocky game. You also played that game in my open.

My argument isn't my Meta, it's what you should expect out of me based on what you know and what you've based your attacks on me so far and how they don't jive. also, instead of answering it, you just throw out more questions.

You're attacking me "Pocket scum-tells" that town very easily commit and aren't even scum-tells to begin with (Naked voting, OMGUS?, resistance to giving reads) without even looking at the mindset of a player.

You're playing the victim while doing your share of calling people "anti-town or scum" when they even dare to question you. You've shot down the validity of any case anyone may have had against you by doing this


Shadow, you think Garan is scum? why?

Once again I return to shadoweh claiming I was making a case based on knowledge of mara... Again you will find its mara attempting this.
The push you are making mara is that you always spot me as scum. Beyond being bushit it's also playing to desps question about previous games but bases it offsite where people need to sign up to colo to clarify.

What were the games mara?

[Generic]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

Getting bored of getting caught in the lies yet mara?

And you made me laugh listing RENs newbie. I was the jester role. Strange how you read me as scum in a game where my win con was to get lynched.

I speculated colo might come into our game. Who wouldn't given our old dynamic. But your case brought to me (eventually) is you telling people this is my scum game, you referencing offsite games and lying about them and the only occasion you mention a game relevant thing I apparently did you were wrong there too (claimed I jumped on shadoweh when he over reacted to me without me needing to name him).
I thought I would need to refer to mara from the purple days, haven't needed to given you are scum slipping under pressure.


It's bedtime for me now. Goodnight all.

[Generic]

Every time you say 'him' I cry a little inside.
I don't think TheGarantula is scum. Thinking about it what I said isn't that solid a town-tell, but I don't suspect them right now.
Generic, perhaps it's because I'm biased, but I'm ignoring your arguments because I'm pretty sure they're wrong, and I'm fairly sure you're approaching this from a not-scum perspective. The problem is you're treating anyone arguing against you as scum by proxy. I don't mean to be insulting to Mara, but I don't think Mara is capable of lying as well as you're assuming she is.

I haven't been treating everyone who has argued against me as scum though. Only you and mara have I called actual suspects at this time, the rest (one other person) I have simply asked to expand on very vague sweeping statements.

[Generic]

It's a shame you are deciding I'm wrong without actually reading what I'm saying. Not a lot else I can say back to that.

[Generic]

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.

I have pointed out all her early comments were self aware and excusing herself with self meta. She had no case back on me, which people keep saying is fine in day 1 to toss out naked votes but she claimed she had reasons but wanted to see the reaction first (then claimed it wasn't a reaction test). Then when she gave a reason it was built on comments made AFTER the vote she made and has tried to establish me as scum based ONLY on coloholics games (which she has lied about) and her declaration she can always tell my scum game (which she later contradicted as saying she can't always).

So everything I have made my decision to push this case on has happened in this game and nowhere else. If that case isn't strong enough to convince you all she is one of the scum team then do be it, but only one of us has lied and attempted to use factors that cannot be easily back checked or require you to accept their opinion on how the other plays.

Pedit: it was to shadoweh who declared he hasn't read the case peacebringer.

But you keep distorting who I said things to pb, is that deliberate? I only gave my experience in mafia to explain why I can give a confident guess on mafia balances. Had I played 4 games that would be not enough to judge a balance, so it reinforced my point. Desperado, all I said to him was my other scum games for him to look at, cos trying to establish meta on one game won't be enough (bearing in mind he was being loditive about my play based in that one example, so there was no gain in giving more examples).

As for the mentor thing, I think You will find she brought it up first, which I take as an AtE. So you really need to get the right facts if you are going to try to paint me a scummy.

[Generic]

There were several points that he didn't respond to like, me admitting that I might not have had a legit reason to place that vote and that I admitted that the current read I have on him now is based off his response to that vote.

Instead he goes to call me a "Mind-reader or a liar" Either way, it's already grounds to shake any credibility I have against him with out addressing it directly

He also stated that I "wanted" to vote him earlier, but I didn't want to be called out for "OMGUS"

First and last paragraph there Mara. You admitted to not having a legitimate reason for voting me (bad enough, but then you tried to dress it up that you did so you tried to impose a wagon on me with nothing to back it up. Only reason why would be to protect someone else or you see me as a threat). But in the last paragraph you say you didnt want to OMGUS vote... What do you call voting for the person voting for you then without a reason?

And you remember when I said I was a 3rd party jester in rens game, one of your examples of identifying me as scum... You do understand the point of a jester role don't you? And the fact its third party?

And I said it was bullshit cos you said you always spot scum generic... Then changed that answer yourself the very next post.

So yes, covered the bullshit.

And as for post 121:

I speculated colo might come into our game. Who wouldn't given our old dynamic. But your case brought to me (eventually) is you telling people this is my scum game, you referencing offsite games and lying about them and the only occasion you mention a game relevant thing I apparently did you were wrong there too (claimed I jumped on shadoweh when he over reacted to me without me needing to name him).
I thought I would need to refer to mara from the purple days, haven't needed to given you are scum slipping under pressure.

Exactly what I've been saying all along. your only in game point s out me was a misrepresentation in the exact same vain you are correcting pb on.

And the sign off with "He is scum, I promise you he is scum." again It's just words. You haven't shown anything to back up this big statement, so you are relying on people taking you at your word that you can read my scum game... That's not a case. That's you trying to force through a lynch on reputation.

[Generic]

You just said you admitted to voting with no legitimate reason, correct?

An OMGUS vote is when you only vote for someone because they voted for you... Without a legitimate reason to vote it was OMGUS.

And you then went on to claim you had reasons but wasnt going to give them, making out it was done sort of reaction test. So you tried to cover the vote so it wouldn't be seen as OMGUS... So yes, my point stands.

You are aware everything you say is still written down right mara? You keep lying or trying to misrepresent events... Yet the true comments are still here to read.

Or are you relying on noone actually reading your or my posts?

[Generic]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

This is what I originally posted Generic.

Where do I state that I always catch you out as scum? I didn't, I stated that, every time I have a scum-read on you, you don't have a town-wincon. You are some kind of scum

I know what jester is, and 3P is still a scum role

I have never scumread you when you had a town wincon, that is what I said

You changed the meaning of my statement

and you once again stated that I don't have a case on you, I do and you admitted such earlier

and you are still aiming on shooting down any credibility my statements against you have

that's scum-intent right there.

So based on this guarantee you are making that when you say I'm scum I always am, you base that on what? Games external to here? So nothing to do with this game or even this site where info is readily available. Convenient.
Did you just say I'm scum and leave it at that in those games mara? Cos here all you have done is say "trust me he's scum" and have yet to provide a single reason why that makes any sense.

You said I jumped on shadoweh - nope he jumped on me.
You said I overreacted to your vote - you mean the vote you admit to having no legitimate reason for? Yeah, I'm likely to question a vote without a reason, always do.

And that's it. Your whole basis for calling he scum is you telling the game this is my scum game when two people in the game have already pointed out my meta from the red wedding says otherwise. And then you assure people you have always been right when calling me scum. Putting aside how easy it is to call someone scum when you don't back it up with a case (did you ever get a lynch on me mara or was it another 'trust me I'm right' arguement?) what happens when I flip town?
You have painted yourself into a corner, which is why your motives based on no case can only be scum motivated.

[Generic]

The comments and cases are there mara, feel free to have your last say back and then I will only answer questions you ask me cos we are hijacking this game with this at present.

Everyone can read over it and decide, we can take it from there.

[Generic]

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

[Generic]

I read what you said. You auto learned several people on very little, never gave a single reason for auto clearing mara as town and then said because I have focused my entire arguement on mara (even though I argued with shadoweh AND peacebrinfer whenever they brought something up about me or to me) I must be scum.

I have one vote. I gave three early reads, mara has been proven to be lying, changing the story and misrepresenting me. She is my too pick for scum while the other two are easily open to debate (I can be wrong quite often). But my case on mara is strong and I believe in it. So I respond to her continued attempts to lie or misrepresent me.

But if you read that as scummy, that's up to you. My flip will not only change the whole dynamic of this but also make for a great fmexample when one if you tries to claim you can read my scum game going forwards.

But I notice you have her a get out clause there nacho. When I flip town are you going to still town read mara cos it was a stupid gambit to get me killed which she couldn't possibly do as scum? Whoopsie, mara is a silly girl ain't she, misreading generic, but lets pat her on the head and tell her she made a mistake...
No, she is scum trying to survive another day phase and mislynch a strong player (you can call that an ego, but you haven't disputed my cas on mara, you have just auto learned her without reason and said my tunnelling makes me scum).

[Generic]

*auto cleared

Not auto learned

[Generic]

Btw. It didn't go unnoticed in your post you throw suspicion on tammy and desperado for considering this unlike my scum game.
You are auto clearing people on much less so try not to be a hypocrite nacho

[Generic]

Shadoweh and gargantua are leaning town.

Peacebringer might be scum.

These reads are pretty damn weak considering information in thread so far. Garg picking up on me feeling differently from what he's used to IMMEDIATELY was town as fuck. His attempt to involve himself in that fight that you seem to be avoiding was town as fuck. Shadoweh is cool probably town and all but you know there's no real reason peacebringer is scum and you know that ignoring the fight completely is bad bad bad. I'm willing to throw double-down on peacebringer being town and feel fine in calling empire town (he won't hide from me forever), and as of right now, feel pretty fine calling marangal town and generic scum.

And it surprises me that you don't even get any paranoid vibes from him tunneling the fuck out of someone in the early game

when that's exactly what he did in red wedding, when he's sitting back and chuckling at Mara lacking a case on him-scum when they have some history together and you know cases don't really need to be talked about when they have history together. Desperado has a slow start you also really aren't picking up on, and all the while it's this gorgeous, gorgeous fight going on that's generating this good information that you want to stop because you're being lazy/scum. Don't break my heart.

What misrep?

And mara said:

In post 115, Ms Marangal wrote:
Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

At worst mine was a misinterpretation cos that clearly reads to me she hasn't been wrong in reading my scum game yet. Putting aside I know she is wrong now it's a sweeping statement that you should trust her cos she is always right, which I called bullshit so how did I not dispute it?

But reads can be wrong. For example I to d it interesting you were on empire as scum, and since then all he has posted is he hasn't had time and will catch up soon and suddenly he's town to you.

What you are doing is auto clearing people with no reasoning. Still none, even when I press the point. Those you know you can't suck up to you place suspicion on, and all of this to do what exactly?

At present it seems to get traction on my wagon.

Please feel free to wagon me to lynch. My early reads were early reads.

I place my opinion strongly on mara being scum. And nacho is becoming a firm second choice. But to make these words count you need to see my flip, so lynch me and then aim everything at nacho and mara. Cos I am happy to leave this game knowing I saw through them.

[Generic]

No nacho, you called me scum, asked why noone was paranoid at me tunnelling someone in early game when that's what I did in red wedding.
Clearly basing it as a reason to call me scum.

And your attack on desperado and tammy was a convenience. I credit you with more than to outright link the pair on the same point.

You keep pointing to what you want answered nacho. I've already said I want my lynch to come so you and mara can be found out. The more you want to post attacking me you feel free, I will just keep pointing out your inconsistencies as we go so when I flip I hope there are enough strong players ready to pick this back up in day 2.

Your defences need to improve nacho, not your attacks. Cos I'm welcoming the lynch, it's your scumminess that will need covering after my reveal.

[Generic]

Empire is an easy nut to crack when scum. I want his entrance in the game to be as uncomfortable as possible in the chances as he does roll scum. He does look town at the moment, although I will say that it's weird as fuck he didn't pick up on me trolling him sooner, considering his familiarity with my meta.

And for someone saying I'm dancing around points this here is laughable. You outright attack him as scum which you now claim was because the chance are he will flip scum, but having posted NOTHING but a comment that he will catch up when he can you have suddenly seen him as town.
I think you are sucking up so he votes the way you want him to.


Pedit: oh you didn't cast suspicion on him then?

[Generic]

And I told you 'a slow start' is a deliberately am oculus reason so you can play games when people question it or read into it.

Side stepping the empire point then. Hypocricy yet again nacho.

[Generic]

*ambiguous

[Generic]

My sons trampoline lesson now, so you carry on pushing a wagon even I'm endorsing and I will come back later to see what else you have come up with.

[Generic]

You sere quick in so I can drop something quick down.

I mentioned tammy and desp together, so yes I will take that one on me as a misrep. I still think your motives were deliberately ambiguous to be able to be d the arguement, but my wording first was a misrep.

And your change of opinion on empire is still inconsistent and therefore suspicious in the motives.

Toodles.

[Generic]

No but calling someone town is. Who are you more inclined to listen to, the guy you argued with who saw you as scummy or the guy telling you how town you are to him?

AtE, creates bias in the reads on cases. It's why there is no point in arguing my lynch right now, people have a perception of either arrogance at my ability, or scummy by reputation. Only when I flip town does all that wash away and my motives become sincere.

Nacho to me (opinion based on previous interactions) has a lot of suspicions when town but here he is focused on the one snd very readily clearing players as town on day 1 without reasons why. And while I keep pointing them out he keeps avoiding answering.

Feel free to vote for me shadoweh. I have warmed to you anyway, When You stopped insulting me and focused on topic you were more sane. I'm happy to admit I hit you wrong early, but early suspicion will still be valid so I will watch the game unfold from the sidelines answer how you go after today.

But put the vote down, mara and nacho are screwed when I flip town, you guys need to just not let them weasel out of it with excuses.

[Generic]

No but calling someone town is. Who are you more inclined to listen to, the guy you argued with who saw you as scummy or the guy telling you how town you are to him?

AtE, creates bias in the reads on cases. It's why there is no point in arguing my lynch right now, people have a perception of either arrogance at my ability, or scummy by reputation. Only when I flip town does all that wash away and my motives become sincere.

Nacho to me (opinion based on previous interactions) has a lot of suspicions when town but here he is focused on the one snd very readily clearing players as town on day 1 without reasons why. And while I keep pointing them out he keeps avoiding answering.

Feel free to vote for me shadoweh. I have warmed to you anyway, When You stopped insulting me and focused on topic you were more sane. I'm happy to admit I hit you wrong early, but early suspicion will still be valid so I will watch the game unfold from the sidelines answer how you go after today.

But put the vote down, mara and nacho are screwed when I flip town, you guys need to just not let them weasel out of it with excuses.

Doesn't this post just say "if you need to suck up to someone, use AtE" then you blatantly used it on shadoweh? or am i misreading it?

You mean that post where I am requesting he votes for me?

I am saying nacho is sucking up to get support for my lynch, but this was before I endorsed that I get lynched to prove my words come from a town perspective.

They can try and misrep me, lie about me and even place get out clauses for each other, but they base their premise on my arguement having an agenda, trying to twist my logic back on me.

I don't want to leave this game having accused shadoweh if scummy behaviour and then not at least reference that I thought his calmer posts were much better.

[Generic]

There is a simple reason I can't reference colo games, beyond you signing up to the site... I can't access it. Have applied for a password reset and nothing. So she has free reign to say what she likes there.
But she calls behaviour of mine scummy throughout every game, so it's like me calling you a lady on e a game nacho and eventually you have a sex change and I can go 'told you he was a lady, I called it'. So yes, even when town she has made at least one push on done thing I've done calling it scummy.

I liked your early comments about mara though boxing herself in which would be stupidity as scum... But there is your catch 22. You have instantly excused her no matter what I flip. And as someone who knows her so well I know she is either keen to get a scalp on me and hope to get away with it or she wants to make sure that in ms irony get the better of her if I was scum.

But either way you two are going to have a lot to do to get out of the fact I am town.

So where are these last 4 votes. The sooner you get my alignment known the sooner you can get on with lunching mara and nacho.

[Generic]

And as for the misreps thing. I answered you. Didn't take forever at all. Yet your misrep you sarcastically mud slung at me and then ignored it completely. So who now is avoiding?

[Generic]

Every thing you lay at my door you have done the same, so to tell me to prove I'm town I must respond without throwing dirt at you is the biggest hypocricy you have pulled yet.

And it seems unless you are mafia nacho you will be having to reassess your whole game, cos if this is a town nacho investigation (projecting your own actions reflected in mine) then you will be the biggest liability town have going forwards.

But you and mara are scum, so you had better hope you can work that magic of convincing the town it was all my fault (cos I doubt you will ever hold you hand up and admit a mistake, even if it wasnt deliberate and tactical) as I am still waiting in votes for me here.

[Generic]

At the very least, prove your worth. You say you need "4 more votes" but don't you really only need 3?
Either way, AtE is spewing from your posts, at least in my eyes. And, tbh, i'm not sure why people even use it. i mean, isn't it something people only do when grasping at straws. You make it seem like your lynch is inevitable when it is fact not. We still have nearly 2 weeks to sort this out, yet you have already resigned yourself to this fate. It's sad that a newbie like me has to tell you to stop the damn defeatist attitude. I see you have 2 options here.
1. Vote yourself.
2. Cut the crap and actually start scum hunting.

I don't vote for myself ever. I have been scum hunting, so I will just cut the crap. I've made my cases, if you really aren't going to lynch me I will read the cases made by others. But my vote on mara won't be moving unless its to nacho on current game shape.

Defeatist attitude is I have put in my work for this game, have fought and defended on 4 fronts now (peacebringer, shadoweh, mara and nacho) and as mara will testify my post attitude is rarely dictated by alignment but almost always dictated by my mood. I'm borderline autistic, have an autistic son I have to look after and several other current issues bubbling away from MS which aren't important to the game nor are they anyone's business but mine.
I'm edgy, and in one game already I allowed that to turn into nastiness. So I promised myself it wouldn't happen here so I have kept everything game relevant until now.

@ Mod. going V/LA for at least a few days.

The rest get to enjoy the game now without my input which I'm sure has been ruining things by the tone I'm receiving back.

[Generic]

At peace bringer:

You asked in post 191,

please indicate one statement I have made where I distorted "Who" I said things to. Please.

What I actually said which you quoted in that post was,

But you keep distorting who I said things to pb, is that deliberate?

And mara also answered this for me do I will quote her to probe it wasnt just me who saw you misremember WHO started the back referencing of another site which you called me on as part of your case.

Peace, Generic isn't scum because of his "building up cred". He's right, I was the first to bring up our relationship, people just picked up on him mentioning about it first but, there are several other reasons for why he's scum that doesn't have to do with that

Someone asked me to claim, so be it:

Im a Servant of the Wingate family. My master has been killed and I've been sealed in the mansion, yadda, yadda, yadda...
Basically vanilla town, win condition of winning when there are no threat to town remaining.

No help in turning opinion on me because A. It's not a power role, and B. the mod helpfully out it as an example in the opening post, so I'm likely to get accused of lying.

Have only read bits do haven't seem any specifically aimed at me stuff. No point in replacing out cos why should someone else have to sub in to this. But I am getting no enjoyment out if this game so will go through the motions until I'm lynched, cos everything I say is bring pointed out as a scum tactic do confbias has taken over...

Don't like peacebringers posts cos he has resorted to just asking for expressions to be explained without then following up with some analysis in anyone. So feels like posting (albeit I'm sure genuine curiosity) to seem active.

Tammy, desperado, bert, shadoweh because in my skimming they have shown some nice measured anslysis. Even though some think I'm mafia, no confbias.
Like garantula but that's biased because he has been defensive of me.

Llarmable... I have a negative feeling towards, but again I think that's simply bias given my mood at present so I am simply see them as null right now, hopefully the more they post the more I will see the true person.

That's it for now. Will check back later. If I missed any questions to me can you prod me the post I need to read or restate the question? Will answer everything when I post again. Many thanks.

[Generic]

Missed this from empire:

@Generic: Please answer the following:
1) Why is there a high correlation between {your suspects} and {people who suspect you}?
2) In #63, you say you find some of my early posts forced. However, in #170, you make an argument that necessarily assumes that I am town as a basis for your scumread on Nacho despite the fact that I had only posted something tantamount to a prod dodge since then. What changed?

On point 2 first, you got that wrong. My scum read on nacho incorporated a point that HE flipped from a scum read on you to a town read on you after just a prod dodge post. I never called you town during that entire event.

On point 1, I suspected mara FIRST, so her OMGUS wouldn't correlate fairly in that comment. Nacho I didn't have a scum read on when we started out arguing but the dirty tactics I highlighted at the time convinced me otherwise. Shadoweh leapt on my issues with occurrences around you before I had even mentioned anyone which felt like a guilty conscience. When they calmed down their posts were far mor pro town yet still suspecting me and I pointed that out.

So no, the correlation isn't what you claim it is. Plus right now I only have two strong scum reads and a wagon of at least 4 votes. You went back to null with you engaging more in everything.

[Generic]

Oh I see what you mean now empire, and that's a good point.
But my arguement there is that as a null read you could be either, and with the speed at which nacho changed his opinion on you (can't really go heavily into things due to ongoing games being the example) it gave me pause to believe it was nacho sucking up to a town player to influence their bias in favour of who he is railing on.

If the arguement is that mara wouldn't put herself on the line whereby my flip makes her whole arguement a joke then so be it, even if that is wifom territory.
Nacho on the other hand I cannot justify his actions as reading anything but full of agenda.

unvote, vote nachomamma

[Generic]

What sympathy card did I play?

And if you point to my need to go v/la for personal issues I will quit this game now. You can ducking call that AtE too if you like, cos I'm not playing that shit after the two days I've had.

As for the RVS, I referenced you without naming names when I commented on those attacking nacho.

And considering I've just been through the points about sucking up to some, flipping reads at nothing and projecting things he has done in this game into my play and then labelling those actions scummy.

Why does it matter when I claimed, I got pushed into having to discuss my personal life and have lost all enjoyment for the game. Have another stick to beat me with and see how creative you can get over that information.

[Generic]

Vote for me bert. Then you are rid of me from the game. I asked for that and got told I shouldn't be doing that.

I get asked for a claim, so I gsve it and that's now scummy to.

Confbias, just finish the wagon, see my flip, and get on with everyone else a town member down.

After mara wants to fucking accuse me of using the suit I'm going through as AtE.

vote generic

That's how ticking angry I am right now, I hate self voting but I refuse to let someone else have to inherit the shitstorm. Fuck it.

[Generic]

unvote

why should I let to of my principles because of the ignorance of others.

Tried to come back to this and try, even though its a chore just to read it let alone analyse it. But clearly whatever I write is going to be called scummy, so fuck it.

Pedit: I will need to calm down first bert, my mind frame right now is shot to shit...

[Generic]

How is it an appeal to emotion when I'm NOT APPEALING my lynch?

It's perfectly acceptable for someone to accuse me of ducking trying to alter the events of a fucking game by bringing my personal life into it? That would sit right with you would it?
And your flippant remark about cancer was a out as no Iso as eating vomit.
I would have forced a mod kill if it wasnt for bad sportsmanship and the last lingering shred of pride I want to hold onto (and its bad enough I'm ruining fakegods game as I am without making it worse for him)...

And I just said I referenced mara even if not by name in post 63. To me that's not lying, just because you didn't pick up on her voting for nacho and me referencing those attacking nacho doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Generic]

Rescinded as in votes for me?

Easily remedied,

vote nacho

Iso my posts, if that's not good enough for what I said against nacho come back to me.

[Generic]

It's a shame you are deciding I'm wrong without actually reading what I'm saying. Not a lot else I can say back to that.

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

These two points are, definitely AtE

Your claim also had some AtE in it.

as for your IRL issues, I don't know whats going on, and I'm sorry for whatever is happening to you, but I'm not using that against you. I never was, and I don't want to use that as fuel against you. In that same token, I don't think it's fair for you to expect us to know whats going on, expect us to know how bad your problems IRL are. I have my own share of problems that I'm not bringing into the game, because the game isn't the place for that kind of thing.

No one pushed you to claim what it was you were exactly going through IRL

and even without your IRL issues, You have been playing the "Victim" card, Bert even brought it up. I'm not the only one who's noticed and yet, you havn't admitted to that.

You still havn't answered

I'll take the Post 63 comment. It's something decent, and one of the best, most legit, things you have stated all day.

You didn't answer the Dirty tactics Nacho is using, I want an answer to that because I don't see it

and you still don't tell me why me Using colo-stuff is Bullshit when you yourself was planning to do it because, it is the only relevant thing we have. This is our first game here, I havn't followed most of your games to closely, and even if I did I can't back anything up because there isn't any proof there. the statements I have made can be backed up if people are willing to sign-up and take a look at the games I linked, because I linked every single game we played in together.

I also didn't call you claiming scummy, I just asked why You claimed.

It's a shame you are deciding I'm wrong without actually reading what I'm saying. Not a lot else I can say back to that.

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

These two points are, definitely AtE

Your claim also had some AtE in it.

as for your IRL issues, I don't know whats going on, and I'm sorry for whatever is happening to you, but I'm not using that against you. I never was, and I don't want to use that as fuel against you. In that same token, I don't think it's fair for you to expect us to know whats going on, expect us to know how bad your problems IRL are. I have my own share of problems that I'm not bringing into the game, because the game isn't the place for that kind of thing.

No one pushed you to claim what it was you were exactly going through IRL

and even without your IRL issues, You have been playing the "Victim" card, Bert even brought it up. I'm not the only one who's noticed and yet, you havn't admitted to that.

You still havn't answered

I'll take the Post 63 comment. It's something decent, and one of the best, most legit, things you have stated all day.

You didn't answer the Dirty tactics Nacho is using, I want an answer to that because I don't see it

and you still don't tell me why me Using colo-stuff is Bullshit when you yourself was planning to do it because, it is the only relevant thing we have. This is our first game here, I havn't followed most of your games to closely, and even if I did I can't back anything up because there isn't any proof there. the statements I have made can be backed up if people are willing to sign-up and take a look at the games I linked, because I linked every single game we played in together.

I also didn't call you claiming scummy, I just asked why You claimed.

When your situations relate to your marriage, health of your children and work all in the same week then you can tell me how I should react. But if you were not referencing that I apologise for my reaction to you.
Again I restate, I don't see how it can be AtE when I am not obstructing my own lynch. And if you believe I'm scum my comment to nacho earlier is surely empty because I won't flip town, you guaranteed it.

As for not answering about nacho

And considering I've just been through the points about sucking up to some, flipping reads at nothing and projecting things he has done in this game into my play and then labelling those actions scummy.

I did answer. If the answer wasnt full enough that's a different comment, but don't make out I ignored you. I'm working off a phone hence the grammar being crap.

And why not call the use of colo meta bullshit. You claim to have never been wrong when you accused me of scum, I call it bullshit to leverage that against me when I'm town here. I honestly don't remember you EVER leading a lynch on me, correct me if I'm wrong, so are you now hiding behind calling me scum and sitting on your hands?
I also don't think it's true that you have never read me as scum when I was town cos I reckon you still hedged your bets and again sat on your hands.

But it's all words. I can access colo anymore. If nacho brings vs I hard evidence from colo that you pushed hard on me only as scum every single time then what will it prove? I've said lynch me and then your record will be a joke anyway, are you gonna accept being lynched as a result?
Of course not, yet the bulk of your early arguement was 'trust me I'm ways right in his scum game'. It takes my life going to shit for you to get more ammo to fire, well congratulations.

Do whatever the hell you want. I really don't care. Out of courtesy to the game I have bombed I am trying to respond and keep it on topic. But I do not care.
Call this my escape... While here I don't have to bother with out there.

[Generic]

The last point, are you suggesting I am?

[Generic]

Garg picking up on me feeling differently from what he's used to IMMEDIATELY was town as fuck. His attempt to involve himself in that fight that you seem to be avoiding was town as fuck. Shadoweh is cool probably town and all but you know there's no real reason peacebringer is scum and you know that ignoring the fight completely is bad bad bad. I'm willing to throw double-down on peacebringer being town and feel fine in calling empire town (he won't hide from me forever), and as of right now, feel pretty fine calling marangal town and generic scum

He expanded on every single one of those reads then referencing only the posts before that statement? Cos otherwise those are sweeping statements with expansions tagged on afterwards when there is more to work with.

But you don't need to convince me mara, you already think I'm scum and all this is an agenda, why don't you convince 3 more people to vote for me and you get your answer don't you. Poking me with a fucking stick is pointless, only reason you would have is to clarify your read on me, yet on page 3 you declared yourself with a perfect record on reading me scum. So why are you desperate to defend nacho on his behalf at me? Why are you trying to convince a person you think is scum that his vote is wrong?

Because if my case is so bad won't everyone else see that and ignore it? So why are you so keen to defend him while trying to continue to discredit and antagonise me?

[Generic]

Speaking of reads, bert asked for mine, and I thought I had given them.

Don't like peacebringers posts cos he has resorted to just asking for expressions to be explained without then following up with some analysis in anyone. So feels like posting (albeit I'm sure genuine curiosity) to seem active.

Tammy, desperado, bert, shadoweh because in my skimming they have shown some nice measured anslysis. Even though some think I'm mafia, no confbias.
Like garantula but that's biased because he has been defensive of me.

Llarmable... I have a negative feeling towards, but again I think that's simply bias given my mood at present so I am simply see them as null right now, hopefully the more they post the more I will see the true person.

Missed the word 'like' from the front of the paragraph starting with tammy.

Since then I'm warming to llarmable, and empire I still am null/leaning scum on.

That's me done I think.

[Generic]

You reminded me where my vote was initially, I wrote my unvote while noone else had voted, yours I pedited so it came in while I was typing, and if you feel that way bert why aren't you voting for me?

Tammy, you say you were going to choose me, put the vote down,

Because mara may have said she wasn't claiming my comments were a tactic to win s poxy game of mafia, but you certainly are implying it bert so fucking put your vote where your accusations are.
Are are you too chicken shot to actually pull the trigger and get your own hands fmdurty?

There, is that a tactical lay for sympathy? Goodnight.

[Generic]

Then whoever those people are they have hot no fucking self respect.
Because I guarantee you one thing bert, I will never use my home life as a weapon in an online game. A fucking game.

I've endgamed twice out of the three times I've been mafia on this site. Not one of those games do I bring in cheap tricks to get there, I simply play the game.

And I noticed you never denied that you are accusing me if using me home life to avoid being lynches. Classy person you are.

[Generic]

Noted garantula. I think it's best I stop saying anything right now,

[Generic]

And let someone else inherit this mess?

No, I think the best course if action for me now is to not post anything unless its constructively responding to someone.

Since I've now been awake 23 hours... Maybe I should address that problem too.

[Generic]

I would like to talk to Mara about the other site first, if you don't mind. Although I wonder...
Mara, Gen, would it be OK if I made the account a public one so people could access its meta?

In principle a great idea. Just be aware the owner can be very difficult.

Since the sign was just to research from my perspective seems a good answer.

[Generic]

*sign up

[Generic]

If I ever flip scum having gone off the cliff like I have in this game empire it's the day I give up playing.

Cos I'm acutely aware how zero fun these outbursts have been, and it's why I have resolved to only post constructive comments going forwards. The hope is to try and actually return this to a game.

But I do want to say one thing to every player in this:
I apologise to all of you, including the moderator, for my off topic outbursts. They have been unfair and irrelevant and if you do decide to lynch me from the game on policy I will understand. Things are improving so I hope to return this to a game of mafia and not a therapy session.

Okay, no more mention on it from me unless someone wants me to return to something.

[Generic]

@ nacho,

I don't know what to tell you, he isn't a fan of me after I walked away from moderating the mafia subforum among other things. It's not the best thing to get the wrong side of him but you arent obliged to answer. Once signed up you should be able to access all of it.

Pedit: now I am back in a better frame of mind nacho I will read his posts again. The bias towards him right now is during my low point he was very positive about me, but I will assess with a more unbiased outlook to see if anything stands out.

[Generic]

First part references poison king btw.

[Generic]

Ok, nacho asked for my opinion on desp:

Opening posts seem fine, and his comment about the red wedding seems ok too cos he isn't fishing for which way opinion is falling because he offers his view first.
His post discussing reads with tammy doesn't feel suspicious, again he is declaring his reads with justifications. He brings up his case against gaiden which seems to make sense. I have avoided involving myself in that at present cos I was the eye of that shitstorm. And I am more likely than not to vote in favour of that case because it was an antagonism too far, but was gaiden just the last in the line of people poking me with a stick for clarity on my alignment?

The next set of posts are strong clarity on his read of tammy which is what put my concerns about his heavy reliance on feedback from tammy rather than anyone else on reads. Bert and nacho have since began this exclusive club way of interaction where pairs of people digress into their own little chat in the open with references between them that sometimes excludes the rest.
Ironically had our interaction not run off in the opposite direction myself and mara could have been doing the same thing with our past encounters.
Then there is the mix up between PB and shadoweh with regards to links to me, again seems genuine cos as errors go he doesn't go off on wild theories and when he does realise is quick to hold his hand up to it.

Last few posts show him stand strong to what he has already said and refuses to alter his theories or reads. Doesn't overreact to shadoweh not realising he acknowledged a mistake in naming her with me.

Desperado has been very cool, calm and collected. Even when pressured or pressed for expanding on his points he has obliged.

My read hasn't changed, he seems to be town in his mindset.

[Generic]

The polygamist mafia game was a joke. I had to sub in after Iso quit claiming he hated the setup but was conveniently timed when half the game was suspecting him as scum.
Not only did I manage to turn the tide on that game but I almost won it for mafia... Had we not lost a person each side to activity forcing a draw (can't mod kill a player in that setup without taking out the partner/team with them).
I would suggest if you are going to hold that game against me as an example of reading me mara you need to accept you had bias towards the slot already, and justifiably so with having read Iso correctly.

[Generic]

Also, what werewolf game? I played in two werewolf games and I was town in both.

Give me the games you called me scum in and was right please mara, I will get leech to log in and let me look.

[Generic]

How can you count a game where I'm meant to make you think I'm scummy?

So your only example of reading me as scum was vote shenanigans 3, a game where you voted me in as king and only called me scum on your death? I will have a look at the comments you made, but you based your whole 'trust me' push on me on a single game where you called me s um in the twilight of your lynch?

[Generic]

Ok, have looked at this one game you based the whole arguement if being able to read me as scum on because it was a massive bug bear that when I called it bullshit you attacked me on that.

Day 1 - you are part of the wagon that votes me in as king. So clearly don't think I'm s I'm there.
Day 2 - you defend my choice of lynch even though it was a mislynch
You are reluctant to be made king/queen for day 2.
And that's it til you are killed.
Your final post after being chosen for lynch:

Amoe, you are a bloody idiot. I never take the back seat as scum. You just lost your town double voter, and person who could lynch two people as king. good luck trying to find scum, You all are going to need it

So you didn't even suspect me unless it happened on day 2 and you voted me in to choose the lynch choice that day!

So please, one last time, what examples are you basing your being right when you read me as scum that aren't a game where my win condition was to make you see me as scum.

[Generic]

*unless it happened on day 1

[Generic]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

[Generic]

can the meta nonsense please cease and desist. I really do not care for who did what in what game. This is this game the rest is blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

There is a reason to it PB.

I was accused of being scum by nacho for not immediately accepting a misrep. To my mind it was a misinterpretation which when clarified I owned up to, but the point was the reluctance to drop the misrep was scummy.

Mara claimed that whenever she accused me of being scum she was right about it, the foundation for her whole push here in getting people to trust her when she said I was scum.

Yet there isn't a single example except for a game where my win con was to act scummy. So it was a total misrep which when I called bullshit on it I was further attacked for doing so.

After all that shit it's vindicating to me that I was right and the case was baseless and a lie.

the deal is meta never has anything to do with "This game" Perhaps it gives credence to perceived tells. But saying so and so did this or that then and is similar now is really not scum hunting. You have been highly defensive and reactive. Your reactions caught my attention in reading through the game. I hate the meta BS cause it has nothing to do with THIS GAME by and large. deal with this game and what is happening. Back and forth on "metanonsense" just really is one's word vs another and rather easy to twist and manipulate by and large. Sure, I have used some meta in past both ways, but not like goes on here and not really used to the he did this in whatever game as each game is treated as a new game. We all generally been playing together for long time as well so there is no need for meta stuff either.

But this is the problem, you are lecturing me on use of meta when I didn't use it!

You say I have been over defensive, I have been frustrated from early in this game that a player came out and assured everyone this is my scum game and that they have never been wrong when they have accused e of being scum.
I have spent the whole arguement pointing out that it was bullshit, that mara is scummy for things she did in this game and nowhere else and that she was basing her whole srguement on that initial lie.
You have t once taken her to task on it choosing to project it onto me when I haven't been using meta. And then you throw at me the fact I have been defensive as proof of me bring scummy when I have been fighting against a set of lies... That's frustration you see in that defensiveness.

But the more you misrepresent me despite the fact I keep pointing these things out to you gives me reason to be very concerned about your motives. I think I need to analyse your posts as my next task in this.

[Generic]

Mara, that's not what you said though. You said when you have read me scum you are right. And to claim that you read me as scum (voting me in as king?) but only said it in post game is bullshit. Everyone claims in hindsight they knew all along.

Why are you still misrepresenting the situation? You have clearly lied.

[Generic]

Ok, this ' easy target' thing is hilarious to me.

Even when I'm not having a nervous breakdown on all but two of the last dozen games ive played, no matter what my alignment, I have found myself wagoned day 1. An awful lot of it is my general aggression and the fact my mood affects my play when people try to read my alignment through my posts.

Believe me PB, you have been under very little pressure this game as several people have written you off as town or defended you to bert.

I said before there have been some filler posts and fence sitting. I don't think your talking yourself up as the victim makes a lot if sense here.

I'm not about to say you can't point to bejng victimised when its merited, especially given its me saying this, but I think you are overreacting to minimal pressure.

[Generic]

Alrighty then. Any questions?

Is that it?

Prod dodge, rather than actually address the 4 votes on you? Look back one post from yours, bert makes a case for you to be the day 1 lynch. Start there.

[Generic]

bert- I am a male, says so right to the left there...
I am always an easy target- always

Reads pretty 'woe is me' to me...

[Generic]

Am I missing the punch line here then?

Why have you put yourself at L-2 while you collect together your reads?

I have to ask because everything stupid like this I have read as scummy before someone more veteran to MS comes in and goes "no, no, clearly a town action!" For the life of me I cannot see it here.

[Generic]

By the way, after tonight I will have much more reduced activity. While I have got a handle on the improvement to my mood the issues still need resolving so apologies to all for the activity drop ok

[Generic]

Someone actually understands the points I was raising?

Where the fuck were you before my meltdown? I might have held it together more and felt less like the victim if I didn't think everything I was posting was falling on deaf ears. I had half the group saying they werent reading it and the other half saying everything I posted was a scumtell.

And now someone finally says they could see where I was coming from and it's the guy run up to L-2...

[Generic]

You have never read me as scum correctly in the game though mara, so at best your big sell was misleading.

You haven't provided a single example of bring right about my scum game. When my win condition is to make you see me as scummy that doesn't count.

So your arguement in pushing me as scum is that you have never scum read me as town. But you have never scum read me as scum either, so your arguement is flawed and misrepresenting.

And congratulations, cos officially you have called me scum when I am town. So you don't even have that anymore.

[Generic]

I know :p

[Generic]

I will have to look back for it mara, tbh I've lost a lot of drive to even try at the moment.

So you need to be appealing to the other players to get me lynched right now, unless you insist on badgering me over it still in which case feel free to relief the points and I will answer. If one of them is over reactions or over defensiveness I covered that when someone else threw they at me.
But ante thing else I'm all ears.

[Generic]

And good luck in guessing the other 6 members of the team...

[Generic]

Why did you expect? me to use MS info, when the only one I have with you is my game

Given the circumstances, environment and format are all different I would have expected you to leverage everything you think you read about me against colo meta. I don't know any of the players so the reads are vaguer and I never rely on meta like I could on colo, and I haven't got the same level of trust with anybody here. For example Bert and Ernie... I mean nacho, the confidence in the I get action with each other is through knowledge.
I don't think you had any meta related salient points because I'm town so to me it proves you know nothing of reading me. Bear in mind you have never read me as scum and your only example is to point to a post game butthurt ' I knew you were scum really' hindsight conversation. It's poor.

Why did you ignore me Finally giving my reason for voting you

You finally gave reasons, after scrambling for something. Why do I need to jump through hoops just because you finally decide to do something meaningful.

what do you think of it?

I told you to requote or relist if you are keen for me to respond. But given you keep reaffirming you have made up your mind about me what is the point if the exercise? It's six other people you need to be harassing with your case, not me.

also, I'm not trying to lynch you currently as per my unvote.

Yet I distinctly remember you making a comment about how I should ignore the unvote cos you think I'm scum... Yet have t bothered to return that vote. So either you pulled it do you didn't stand out after everyone else did or you aren't as sure about me being scum as you keep bleating on about. One makes you scummy, the other makes me wonder who you are trying to convince when you keep telling me I'm scum subsequently.

Some other points that I didn't think about till now:

Ok. Lets hear em...

If you had me, Empire, and Shadoweh as the scum-team, why did you ignore Nacho when he tried to reach out to you early on in the game and get you to wagon empire with him and Tammy?

I did by looking at empire and giving my early thoughts, which led to shadoweh over reacting and you to naked vote. That's how you and shadoweh ended up in the radar for serious concern, the initial concern coming from looking at empire when nacho flagged it.

If you thought I was town, why didn't you try to interact with earlier?

I thought you were a concern when you attacked nacho o we his empire pressure, and when I began looking into it you naked voted and danced around answering the reason. When exactly did you propose I interact with you?

[Generic]

unvote

[Generic]

unvote

[Generic]

Do you have anyone as scum nacho? Besides me I mean.

I only ask because I have seen you give arguements to a lot if other people's scum read as to why they are town to you, who are your current suspects?

[Generic]

What did you think my reasons for voting you are?

is it Chain-saw, or is it OMGUS?

I wanted you to interact with me right after I responded to your RVS vote

the first post on the second page, but it went completely ignored

I assumed OMGUS as the excuse for your vote because you had already been called on the chainsaw defence. But your claim now about it being cos I didn't respond to you is pathetic when you consider I called you on the vote and you began being defensive about your reasons. Had you just said it was cos I'd ignored you there and then it would be a different story, but you instead jump on me about my reaction to your vote... Well considering the story kept changing from the vote I think it makes the vote even scummier.

If you look at my posting whenever I return I try to go back and pick up on the later posts first, but when I came back RVS had been ended so I felt it was important to respond to the flagged issue that was being discussed which was the potential defending if empire.

So you stamping your foot because daddy isn't listening to you seems... It doesn't add up that's for sure.

I still want to vote for you today, but it's a wasted vote since a combination of your teammates and town players have written you off as town so the vote is a waste.

[Generic]

Still waiting on gaimans analysis of the game.

[Generic]

Apologies for misspelling your name. Been a long day.

[Generic]

Tammy. You made a comment earlier where you said the arguement was getting to the point where you would have to choose between me and mara, you said you were leaning towards me... But you never made it clear what that meant. I assumed at the time that meant you wanted to lynch me over mara but it was also a reference to choosing sides.

Do what did you mean and why?

[Generic]

Because you seem to be using it to avoid everything else, and it's impertinent.

[Generic]

Bored of talking to you now mara.

Guess you will have to vote for me again to get my attention. Just make sure that you cobble together a lie as to why you voted within the next 17 pages.

[Generic]

Gaiden replacing out after a vote from PB feels like giving up.

Happy to save waiting on a replacement who then has to catch up also.

vote gaiden

[Generic]

I don't care if it seems bad, genuine or not the only things he was saying was still catching up then suddenly wants out. This day is dragging as it is.

[Generic]

If it makes you feel better shadoweh, I'm on my own little life boat cut adrift from the ship in this on

I dared to point out mara, MS's darling, is scum so bert and nacho now stand watch over her.

I hoped tammy would befriend me after we won as a mafia team in red wedding but she has her own friends... *sob*

[Generic]

Mara you have never seen me like this as either alignment yet you assume I'm scum.

You have never called me scum when I have been and I don't want you to find out, yet here you claim I am making it obvious? If I was scum you wouldn't even have this amount if case, which is still fuck all.

And I will make this promise to you given what went down in this game. If I flip scum in this game I swear on the lives if my children I will quit MS for good. Because I will NEVER use RL life problems in a game to stop me bring lynched, as either alignment, and the fact I brought it up in this game is a testament to me being at the end of my tether mentally.

So push for my lynch all you want now. That's all I will say against any wagon on me so the opportunity to lynch me is now.

[Generic]

Still voting for me though.

Like I said, if I flip scum in this game I will be leaving the site. And that's a guarantee.

Which will mean several games if not finished before my flip in this will need to replace me if you are right... But it's not gonna happen as we both know.

But carry on.

[Generic]

Who have you scumhunted?

And if you are do sure mara this will be the last game we speak in wont it.

Or you will look stupid. Win win for me as I know which it is.

[Generic]

And PB, you have a vote, feel free to use it if you think I'm bluffing and have used my home life to avoid a lynch.

[Generic]

My point is that if people vote me on the assumption I'm scum that is also taking into account the meltdown.

I swore on my children's lives I would never post such things playing as scum. And the reason they got posted at all was pure emotional frustration which is only ever present in me as town.

End of story as far as I'm concerned. But dress up the vote with any other tell you like. Just remember my comments when I flip, because its my integrity as a person now on the line, this stopped being a fun game for me days ago.

[Generic]

And I have my vote on someone else, so the fucking shit mara is peddling AGAIN is so blatant I can't fathom why I'm the only one seeing it.

Who has she voted for besides me?

Great diversification on the scumhunting. Utter bollocks.

[Generic]

Whatever makes you feel better PB. Cos you basically admitted that you are voting me even if I'm town.

You two need just 5 more to agree with you. And mara then needs to explain yet more lies.

[Generic]

Which rules would that be?

[Generic]

Whatever makes you feel better PB. Cos you basically admitted that you are voting me even if I'm town.

You two need just 5 more to agree with you. And mara then needs to explain yet more lies.

well you have violated game and site rules regarless of your alignment.

Looks like I will be mod killed then doesn't it.

Maybe now you will realise how pissed off I am at the antagonism in this.

You got your wish mara and PB, I won't dvdn get to win with the town.

100% record lost, I will consider leaving MS anyway over this I think...

[Generic]

Sent a pm to the mod? Classy guy.

[Generic]

You will do for me kuribo.

unvote

It was unfair to make the comment I did about gaiden.

[Generic]

So if there are 2 neighbourhoods I would make an assumption (although not a strong theory by any means) that there is a mafia representative in both groups for mafia to have a spy into the conversation.

The group with 3 can only have a maximum of 1 for balance purposes, and therefore if its a 3 player scum team we have either 2 in the 4 person neighbourhood or 1 there and one in the pool of players outside the neighbourhoods (Nacho, Bert, me, purple shoe, garantula, desperado).

Actually, does seem a lot of people outside the enighbourhoods... maybe only the one mafia is in 1 neighbourhood. likely to be the 2nd pool since there are 4 of them.

Is a mass character claim worthwhile at this stage to see how the neighbourhoods are set up?

[Generic]

Wow... One hell of a game then.

[Generic]

It was just when someone made comment about my role as servant it made me wonder if that was actually the breakdown.

Point taken.

[Generic]

I am struggling with the choice of vote here.

I have about 3 or 4 people I wont vote for which narrows it down.

I have 2 I cant vote for because im avoiding interaction with them at all for the rest of this day phase.

The easy option is to follow the majority but I am not feeling purple shoe as scum.

[Generic]

Its not even the town vibes. Its flat out null and now I have been informed who it (potentially) is I don't see anything odd in the play. Mutley is one of the people on MS I have played most games with. Tammy is becoming another but unlike mutely she just seems to hate me.

[Generic]

Checking in before an errand...



Will comment on the neighbors, etc., etc., tonight

This right here.... if I could marry a post, it would be this one...

[Generic]

No all round MS record. Never lost a game, end gamed three out of the first 4 completed games.

Can we go back to the game topic or did you have any other questions?

[Generic]

Damnit, so much for anonimity...

Far be it from me as one of the worst hijackers of this game with my meltdown to point this out, but can you guys not name call across the game please.
Kuru I you did do wrong in outing the alt account, and I know your reaction because its from an aggressive and stubborn mindset. You have been very active on topic so I would hate for you two to replace me and the other person in drawing the game away from point.
Purple shoe, the announcement of blacklisting I'm sure was warranted to inform kuribo, but do you really need to keep furling his raging?

Is there a forum for this 'debate'?

I don't think either of you are scum, so if you could both maybe suggest who else you are reading as scum then maybe we could go from there cos I'm not gonna give intent to hammer at this point.

[Generic]

Btw generic, "this feels town vs town?" Huge scum tell. Lucky for you I got bigger fish to fry right now

You wouldn't find it hard to lynch me, there are at least 3 people who would join that wagon.

But it does at least confirm you can scum read as well as you think.

[Generic]

Btw generic, "this feels town vs town?" Huge scum tell. Lucky for you I got bigger fish to fry right now

You wouldn't find it hard to lynch me, there are at least 3 people who would join that wagon.

But it does at least confirm you can scum read as well as you think.

What does that last sentence even mean

Should be *cant.

On my phone and if I hit y instead of t it predictives it to can.

[Generic]

What kinda shitty phone do you have that autocorrects cany to can instead of can't?

Oh it's a real joy, my favourite at present is whenever I write scumhunt it auto corrects me to scumhunting because the first time I use that word it was scumhunting and saved it in the phones memory (I'm guessing technically its not a phrase in the dictionary).

It goes out of its way to make me look retarded... Like I need any help.

[Generic]

*used

It also fails to pick up letters at times... Overuse I think.

[Generic]

Ok, I've changed my stance cos I'm getting fed up of it. Intent to hammer.

If kuribo has got it right then you can feel free to give me hell over it, but when three people ask for reads or return to topic and purple shoe still dances around it even someone as lost and as out of sync with all this game as me can see something isn't right.

So intent to hammer, feel free to claim

[Generic]

Nacho are you sure about the shoe?

pretty sure at this point. there is a tiny chance that he's playing this game specifically to make me scumread him, but mutley's not that much of an ass so that's a tinfoil worry.

What do you think of his/her blacklisting comment and all AtE spill?

This is why I have up til now wanted to keep away from it all.

It's beyond hypocritical to join the wagon of someone who has abandoned on topic posting and spilling emotional arguements all over the place in my podition, it's a piss take.

But I am still at present a part of the game, so I have to call it as I saw it and it felt like avoidance after a while.

[Generic]

If I was worried about looking scummy that would be self awareness which IS a scum tell.

No, that was more feeling shitty voting for someone based on a similar premise to the crap I left in the game. Even if he had flipped scum I was happier not being on the wagon due to the utter hypocricy if it and its a pride and integrity thing... But it was getting too much.

[Generic]

I didn't think he was scum until he continued to avoid involvement.

At the start I could relate to the emotional outbursts.
Then he began to get difficult with kuribo who clearly had kept trying to bring it back to topic, but I had considered that to be because they have had the arguement do he wasnt about to oblige him with responses.

But since then he has kept being difficult with everyone else too, so yes I believe there is scum intent there now.


And I say self awareness is a scum tell. Town don't care what they are saying because they know they are town. Scum are careful what they say because they want to appear town.

[Generic]

And kuribo, it's ultimately that point as to why I finally did get involved.

I came back into this after recovery from a lot of RL mess and having been given a chance by the mod to carry on. I have/had strong opinions of who is scum but I was also aware that I had to start again because it has been a mess of posting.

I did not wish to wagon someone who I wasn't overly sure of when they were having a smaller version of my situation and resigned myself to backlash if he did flip scum. But once I felt the situation was much clearer that he was scummy in his avoidance I decided I would involve myself.

Pedit; I know what you are saying kuribo, but I still think it can be a scum tell. Nothing is cut and dry in this game, that's why it's never perfect rind for town every time.
I'm town yet I'm coming off as scummy in a lot I do it seems. I can't help that and it's occasions like this where we end up with mislynches.

I have given far too much to this game emotionally. Now I'm just trying to ease back in. Intended to be away til Sunday but I got back into the flow yesterday in the end.

[Generic]

Rind = wins

[Generic]

I get wagoned on day 1 95% of the games I play in.

It has nothing to do with alignment, but I comment/attack/question any and all comments or accusations directed at me.

I am an aggressive player, and what people perceive as scummy behaviour (what they call overreactions to their comments) are what I do. I play based on my mood so I am unlikely to change drastically in my play. So if I play badly (I seem to as town on MS that's for sure) then that's tough for me and I will continue to fight day 1 wagons.

In this game I have specific suspicions on the player MS marangal. The ego in me says the backlash on me is cos she has friends covering her back in this and I'm just the unknown guy. Tammy has note able issues with me (I must rub her up the wrong way as its in most games we are in or have been in) and nacho is nacho.
But I am also able to in the cold light if day realise I let the antagonism get under my skin and my reactions have been rmbarrassing.

I'm beyong caring about my lynch now kuribo, when you have been threatened with the mod kill it puts it in perspective. Do if you want to wagon me again feel free and reduce the chaos the game has.

[Generic]

I was looking for ms wingate... But that's because I have her mod morning tea and crumpets.

[Generic]

There was me thinking I would be he worst thing to happen to this game... Then these two had a chat.


Pedit: bert, I speculated that but that leave six people outside the chat with just one mafia in them. It felt too much like a get out clause if we are wrong.

[Generic]

I do think Random is most likely for the neighborhoods.
Shadoweh might be scum. I'll agree that she and Desperado are probably the best options for today. There isn't much time left for me to become properly useful is there .
Townreads need rethinking because there are just too many of them.

Bert, are you town?

[Generic]

Lol. I quoted a post without even choosing to, that's new.

[Generic]

That's a busy slot inte has inherited...

[Generic]

I'm still waiting for the clique to decide who will be lynched. That's how this day is going to end almost certainly.

Or are we waiting on the next set of replacees if those claiming they will replace out actually do?

[Generic]

vote peacebringer

[Generic]

unvote

vote llamarble

Why don't you form your own opinion on me rather than wait for someone who clearly hasn't got a clue to give you the answer.

[Generic]

Strange how your indecision and vote hoping all over the place is largely left alone bert. You care to explain the chaos?

[Generic]

*hopping

[Generic]

I enjoy the chaos more than the 'love in' bert that's for sure. But I get what you mean with head vs gut, I just get a little bemused when you then blow kisses in nachos direction and ask him to tell you who to vote for.

If I'm honest I love your attacks analytically, hate your buddy buddying. But what do I know:

[Generic]

unvote

Decent input llamarble. Inte, what's brought you to that conclusion in tammy? She was t even on my radar so I'm intrigued.

[Generic]

Hey generic, why aren't you voting? Is it because you're scum staying under the radar?

Hey qwints, why arent you voting me? Is it cos you are scum knowing I'm a good mislynch for later?

vote qwints

There ya go sweetheart, enjoy.

[Generic]

I am.

[Generic]

Cos my first choice for scum is in a little clique protecting them, and if they are the scum team they already have a controlling influence in the game so I've given up caring at this point.

[Generic]

Anyone else find it odd that after I mention how bert is being uber buddying to nacho he is now distancing?

Or is it just me really concerned that the clique could be the scum team?

But they can't all be, cos qwints is picking up where his predecessor left off trying to get easy kills.

[Generic]

Well I won't vote desp cos I am not convinced by the case on him and I won't vote shoe cos that will tie the voting when we are do close to deadline.

I agree tammy and empire need to commit now. We can take it from there.

[Generic]

I hope there is a cop and a vig in this.

Day 2 will be much better with info.

And yes, I fully expect to still be here, there's no value to a scum team killing me given half the game thinks I'm scum but won't lynch me. And all the work put in by one of the d I'm team to discredit and antagonise me would have been a waste if I'm now killed.

So I will see most of you at the dawn of day 2 almost certainly. Unless you intend to lynch me now.

But qwints seems unlikely to be lynches toDay so

unvote

My vote will be put down where it seems most relevant, but is likely to be very near deadline at this rate.


Pedit: why is town reading me scummy? Things like this show I'm being prepped as a mislynch weapon, either to mislynch me or use interactions with me to mislynch others.

[Generic]

Pedit: why is town reading me scummy? Things like this show I'm being prepped as a mislynch weapon, either to mislynch me or use interactions with me to mislynch others.

it's not scummy. in fact, it's literally the only townie thing desperado's done all game.
but it isn't enough for me to keep him alive for today.

Good answer. I will use the night shift ahead of me nacho to read desp again. If I see 2-3 town things from him I won't be voting for him at all. If I don't I will join the wagon.

And I will list the town things just to be clear.

[Generic]

vote mara

[Generic]

MS mara gal is mafia, I've been pointing it out since page 2, it's only a matter of time before its proven right...

What's the case against shadoweh? I'm inclined to listen to nacho after a very very good desperado read.

[Generic]

Hypocricy isn't scummy.

You are though.

[Generic]

Hypocricy isn't scummy.

You are though.

You were using it as a scum-tell when going after Nacho

And you were saying it wasnt. Changing your arguement are you?

Easy reason you can confirm someone is town with absolute certainty, you know who's in your scum team.

[Generic]

Is this another one of those 'reach out' to me moments?

[Generic]

Short of being mod cleared I will assume you are scum until game end. So why exactly are you still talking to me?

[Generic]

Hell, lets give it a shot...

unvote

Who is your top suspect and why?

For me I am not overly keen on shadowehs 'I'm always lynchbait' crap. My task when I come back to this game is to compare early posts with later ones.

[Generic]

Shadoweh only mentioned lynch bait once IIRC, and there are others who had mentioned it as well. what makes hers any different?

I think that, currently, mine has to be a tie between Inte and Matt and I think I want to focus more on the latter

I think alot of the stuff garantula did is surfacely townish with a little bit of insight to what he thinks, but I don't think it's enough. It also has to do with the fact that I have enough town-reads so he's kinda PoE

It's a good point, I also did and still do suspect peacebringers slot...

Who replaced him?

[Generic]

vote qwints

Oh, and you will notice the total 180 mara has done on my alignment... Remember the anger I had at her cocky little 'never wrong on my generic read' bullshit... Just one for everyone to take in.

She was full of shit, I am vindicated.

[Generic]

Wow, you mean I was right about nacho in the early part of the game?

I have nacho reading this game well, he is my strongest town read based on the desp push...

Is he the sort of guy to sell out a team mate to get ahead? Or are you suggesting he pushed on desp and got lucky finding an SK?

You spent all game kissing his ring bert, what's with the flip of opinion?

[Generic]

Town cop. Her hints and sudden change of opinion on me is bullshit otherwise. She is either guaranteed scum or she copped me.

I won't risk pushing to lynch a cop, so I move on. Your answering me with a deflection and change of subject is atrocious btw. Your turn to answer me.

[Generic]

You asked why, but late in the day to cry over the answer now.

And no, she couldn't care less what others said about me, because she and I would rather go head to head on a lynch (1v1as you call it) than u turn without good reason that we arrive at independently.
End of day 1 was proof of that. She wasnt budging, and I still called her scum start of day 2.

[Generic]

Lets see where it goes shall we bert?

vote nacho

You pulled that vote out if nowhere, as a scum move it was retarded so I can only assume a town mindset in doing it for now. I'm open to all ideas, especially one that shows I was on to something before being dismissed so heavily day 1.

[Generic]

My initial scum reads were mara, nacho and then one of shadoweh or empire. With desp being anti town Surely the scum team can only be two...

I think mara is clean as I explained. Difference between us is I never claimed to never be wrong on my reading her... Yes mara, you know how petty I am and I meant it when I said I will never let you forget it.
Nacho and shadoweh as a scum team makes sense. But then nacho might just be caught contradicting himself, which you can do as town if you forget remarks you have made on a long day 1 that went down like that did.

I still have my concerns on qwints.

[Generic]

Sod it,

vote qwints

Scum is scum.

[Generic]

*sigh*

[Generic]

vote shadoweh

If they flip scum, nacho can be next

[Generic]

Oh and mara, at least I will know for sure now won't I regarding your alignment

If I see you day 3, you are likely scum. So do sleep well night 2.

[Generic]

vote shadoweh

[Generic]

Right now I have strong opinions of belief in tammy as town. Her sarcastic frustrations about other neighbourhood I can relate to from my own way of reacting to things. If she flips scum in this game it will break my heart so I am auto clearing her to start doing what matt suggested I should and put some effort in again.

On matt, loved the analysis, absolutely nailed it on a few people specifically (qwints slot in particular).
You are probably right on nacho, but he is this sites version if Iso to me (those who use mtgs will know Iso I'm sure) and they are the sort of guys I hate letting lead the line and then flip scum... Bert got me paranoid, and he is snother I want to trust but find myself not doing do on gut instinct.

Mara is either scum or dead, I don't care which simply because of all the cryptic bullshit.

I'm with tammy, your group needs to start answering things or I will rally behind the rest of the 'outsiders' and we will lynch one of ya for our own answers.

Matt, if you are town I look forward to future games with you as town reading me, and I mean proper townreading without doubting it, is not at all easy because my moods give off scummy play as I go regularly. If you are scum then I hate you for using me as a pawn in the tactic you are vs biting at this time

Qwints, shadoweh, mara, purple shoe... One to two scum here.

Nacho, bert... So want to clear as town but have this major headache about how sneaky these bastards could be.

Empire, matt... Want to say town, need to be clearing people to narrow down the lynch options.

Tammy... My town mayor. If I ever struggle to analyse anyone with clarity for a lynch or start getting lazy I'm sheeping this lady to game end...

[Generic]

Fucking site kept giving me SQL errors while typing up a post.

Tammy, ugh, I really don't know (I will say though that Nacho and Generic would have to be playing very strong games if they're scum here).

P-edit: Bert, like I give a rat's ass.

If this was a scum game from me empire I would be ashamed of it. I e been embarrassed looking back at my meltdown here, you can actually see the difference in my first half a dozen pages and now vs that whole middle section.
It would be a pathetic scum game for me if it were true.

Nacho I will give you, if he is scum here then he has played it strong. It's why I want him to be town, I hate the idea of a scum game played this well :p

[Generic]

If you want my theory on what the answer is I will happily share, but I get abuse for sharing TMI so I had better check first.

[Generic]

Which grouping was marble in? Tammys hood, maras hood or a street rat like me, bert matt and nacho?

[Generic]

Tammy, marble and desp was it?

If so tammy will be almost certainly town.

[Generic]

Then that opens another avenue...

You are gonna break my heart ain't ya tammy? First you make it clear you hate me in every game we participate in, now you are playing a superior scum gambit... *sob*

Sorry for this weird convoluted theory, but either mafia exist in both hoods or just Tammys.

I need full disclosure from both hoods here. Marble dying is clearly tactical, and that's what I'm trying to figure out.

How early in the chat did mara claim, how active was inte in the chat in Tammys hood... What did marble say in the chat?
Tammys hood now is similar to what I had I as I'm game where I was mafia neighbouriser. I had one player I chatted to that I manipulated for the win. In a hood like Tammys if she is scum she would have two votes to control with inte on side. But that's tin foil hat level theory and I hope it's not true cos its ballsy and next level gaming to win if true.

Then there is a hood where someone has clearly claimed investigative powers, cleared another neighbour and then cleared all other neighbours through 'surviving' the night phase.
You drop a claim like that out there, it's scum bait. And since they are all still here, including the cleared investigation aged the assumption is they are clean.
So much wifom to be had in there though I am angered just thinking about it.

[Generic]

I'm thinking mara and qwints scum team right now. Lovers role seems farcical.

Time to check their interactions, if they seem to be soft protecting each other I shall consider it, otherwise I smell shit of the bull variety.

[Generic]

One thing that doesn't stack up.

Why change your read on me?

At this stage after all that was said day 1 and your lover trying to get me removed by the mod, you accept nacho as the likely scum rather than me if your hood is clean?
You gave me shit for calling him scum, auto cleared him and formed a little clique with him and bert...

vote mara

[Generic]

What world is poisoned NOT an anti town role?

Bizarro world?

Only thing I have pause on is the mara I'm familiar with isnt ballsy enough to make a true claim and try and pass it off as town.

Maybe I just like the idea of qwints, mara and shadoweh dead. I'm getting petty.

Why poison shadoweh?

[Generic]

It's either mara or nacho for me today. After the shit I took on day 1 for my heavy push on them as scum I want to know if I can dance the happy dance on a scum grave... Don't care which but if nacho wants me to trust mara the. Nacho gets the vote instead.

[Generic]

I'm sorry, I'm all over the place here, but I come back to Tammys hood.

Why marble? We have two mafia making that call, why them?

[Generic]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

No, My suspicion came right when I voted for you otherwise I wouldn't have done so, but you trying to paint that naked vote as scummy before I explained it made that suspicion stronger. as did you pre-planning every little attack you would have on a person

and yes, you are playing your cocky game. You also played that game in my open.

My argument isn't my Meta, it's what you should expect out of me based on what you know and what you've based your attacks on me so far and how they don't jive. also, instead of answering it, you just throw out more questions.

You're attacking me "Pocket scum-tells" that town very easily commit and aren't even scum-tells to begin with (Naked voting, OMGUS?, resistance to giving reads) without even looking at the mindset of a player.

You're playing the victim while doing your share of calling people "anti-town or scum" when they even dare to question you. You've shot down the validity of any case anyone may have had against you by doing this


Shadow, you think Garan is scum? why?

See, this cockiness has gone completely. Absolute certainty I'm scum cos she's never been wrong.

Answer me that mara.

[Generic]

I want mara to give the order of people to claim...

[Generic]

Oh and mara, even if you are town I'm claiming technical victory...

Cos where you and I learnt our mafia trade the lovers role and certainly the poisoner role are scummy roles

Nailed it page two

[Generic]

I'm not voting nacho until I hear his claim. and that is on the clock because he has a habit of [redacted]

I want the following claims in this order:

Nacho
Purple shoe
Shadoweh
Inte
Tammy
Empire.

Simple as that, tammy lost a lot of town credit with me for her tantrum refusal to claim AT ALL

[Generic]

Feel free to go before nacho shoe. At present you suck big time so please try and restore some faith.

[Generic]

One thing will be clear, one of the servant claims is looking likely to be a fake claim.

Three of us already...

[Generic]

Hey nacho, are you aware tammy is voting for you?

How do you feel about that?

If you were stuck in the Antarctic with a harpoon, a hunting knife and a rope, but you can only take one item, which do you choose?

[Generic]

Sounds like you made the same assumption I did tammy... I don't think they made the decision as a group to kill shadoweh, by his/her reaction I get the impression they have also just found out about it like us.

[Generic]

Was the poisoning one shot?

[Generic]

Right now I don't want tammy to claim at all. It's stupidity if mafia to plead to go last and refuse to full claim if made to go sooner.

My paranoia is up thanks to nacho turning into purple shoe in his attitude, but I want to trust tammy and Bert to at least have some kind if base for PoE.
Matt still seems on the level, and empire has been pretty genuine on his information reveals.

Leaves me with inte who is lurky scum and a prime candidate in the marble choice, nacho and purple shoe who think being difficult is somehow endearing and then the mara/qwints combo...

We a e time and lynches in our favour at the moment, mara has narrowed down shadoweh for me, leaving 5 people. If shadoweh flips scum mara clears two people in one to, and will die tonight anyway. Leaves me with inte, nacho and the shoe... And one of them will be my lynch choice today.

unvote

[Generic]

Oh, six to lynch?

vote nacomamma

[Generic]

Nacomamma?

vote NACHOmamma

[Generic]

I hope maras right. Will narrow down the list for me soooooo much.

If you flip town shadoweh you are bring extremely unhelpful to me, I hope you realise that

[Generic]

Then mara has one more shot in her at least before death.

So I say there is two chats to be had here:

1. Lynch choice
2. Poison choice.

I say you poison purple shoe. I have to choose the lynch between inte and nacho

[Generic]

I'm sold on mara as town by saying the poison is not one shot. Scum would have claimed one shot I think, knowing we would seize control of it as a group shot.

Need a vote count. The lack of a fast wagon on someone as strong as nacho is looking to be a good sign we might be on to something.

Props to you nacho if you are scum, you manipulated maras stupidity towards me to neutralise my push on you, had I not been having marital problems at the same time it might have panned out differently

Anyway, will look at the last vote count, as I think we had one recently but I was skimming again.

[Generic]

I make it L-2 for nacho just so people keep track

[Generic]

We can lynch him instead, but I don't want to put any effort into his death, since hasn't put any effort into the game

[Generic]

Prime things I've noticed from a nacho scum mindset:

When not under suspicion is a driving force of the game. When under suspicion he goes missing and when he does post is difficult.

And if this was a town mislynch, strange how prime suspects (mara, inte, shoe) aren't on it and yet it's still not hammered.

I mean come on, a chance to mislynch a strong town player? Excuses and votes would have been made. I think this is a scum wagon, and maras opinion means very little to me given her read on me day 1.

[Generic]

Your current game logic mara has been to attack me as scum pinning your entire reputation on it, only to abandon it today without giving a reason why.
You then go on to tell us a strong scum read is your lovers partner but you are guaranteed both cleared as town (won't matter if not, scum will kill you both as you are both third party and they don't want their traitor teammate alive either now)
You tell us shadoweh is town, yet you poisoned her... Yeah, brilliant.

And you now want up lecture me on MY logic?

Oh for a vig shot right now...

[Generic]

Nacho is a strong player, why would town who think he is town want to mis-lynch him? I would think that, Scum would take the opportunity to lynch him if he was town because, he is a potent threat

This was my point. A guy who would be a poor lynch if town is run up to L-2, yet hasn't been pushed to even L-1 since?
Unless your claim is that there is the entire scum tea already on his wagon. Have you seem the list of players on that wagon?

Me who you claim is town now, your lover who you claim is town, bert who you were in a clique with most of day 1 and tammy... Shos the scum mara?