Mini 1492: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets GAME OVER

[LnGrrrR]

Vote RachMarie

Hi Rach! Going to lurk your way through this game too?

[LnGrrrR]

UNVOTE: RachMarie

VOTE: Squilly

You ask Channel why he would vote Amrun (change vote you mean?) without knowing he was scum, even though you just blindly changed your vote to Amrun as soon as he said that. Ridiculously scummy.

[LnGrrrR]

Squilly, could you provide some reasons for your votes? Naked votes are frowned upon.

[LnGrrrR]

And why wouldn't you question me for the same thing?

Because Squilly has changed his vote numerous times, and the only time he explained it, it made absolutely no sense.

I'm assuming that you have played with Amrun before and noticed some tell. I'm not pushing you to answer because it might be a pressure vote and if you did explain, it might screw up his response.

That said, if you want to explain your vote, feel free. Also, I can only vote one person at a time and Squilly's immediate sheeping with no reason deserves a REASONABLE response (you know, one that makes some sort of sense), and so does his new vote.

[LnGrrrR]

Squilly, could you provide some reasons for your votes? Naked votes are frowned upon.

Frowned upon by whom? Do you frown upon them?

By myself and most of the Mafia community that Im familiar with. Do you disagree?

[LnGrrrR]

Are we starting off with as many stupid votes as possible? The reason I said that sentence the way I did is to show that its not just me being a dick, it's something that's a generally understood rule of mafia, that votes/unvotes should have a reasoning attached. I wasn't sure if Squilly knew that or not. I figured I would give him a chance to try to explain his scummy votes.

Also not a fan of the weird triangle between Amrun, ChannelDelibird and Squilly.

Hey Amrun, what "context" excuses Squilly's naked votes there?

[LnGrrrR]

Define "weird triangle."

I never said squilly's vote was good/excused. (It is neither.)

Post 5: Amrun votes Channel in RVS
Post 12: CHannel votes Amrun in RVS
Post 17: Channel says vote on Amrun is no longer RVS
Post 18: Squilly naked unvotes, votes Amrun
Post 19: Squilly unvotes Amrun, votes Channel
Post 22: Amrun votes Squilly (and tells Channel not to be silly)
Post 36: Channel still saying Amrun is scummy
Post 39: Squilly unvotes Channel, votes Amrun
Post 42: Channel parrots Jason questioning me
Post 49: Amrun questions me
Post 51: Amrun votes me
Post 52: Channel votes me

Squilly has only "seriously" voted both of you, you and CDB both voted for each other in RVS, and then you both voted me back to back. Not sure what to make of it, but it feels off to me.

@Amrun, if Squilly's vote isn't good, why didnt you question him?

@Channel, you said a majority of Amrun's posts were scummy, then because of one post you unvote and vote me instead, with no reasoning. Explain?

[LnGrrrR]

I don't know that it is necessarily "indicative" of anything... As I just said above, not sure what to make of it but it feels off. Just a gut reaction that there's too much synchronicity there.

As far as pressure, you "pressured" him for all of six posts (voted him post 22... then you unvoted him and voted Oriole post 28 for defending Squilly). If you wanted to keep pressure on Squilly, why the unvote?

[LnGrrrR]

Explain why it's "sloppy"? I merely voiced it because I noticed it; I'm not good enough scumhunting to nail scum off one or two posts, so I usually tell the thread about posts I find questionable to see if those who are good scumhunters notice anything. (If you want to see what Im talking about, check my two completed games on here: Newbie 1368 and Open 495. I pretty much was wrong on all my initial reads.)

[LnGrrrR]

What exactly do you mean by "You're trying to use that as a scum-tell when none of them have even flipped scum yet."

Of course they haven't flipped yet; I just noted the odd interaction. I don't know if any of them ARE scum, but I mention it so when I review later or I get killed, I at least have it noted in my ISO. I only stated it felt "off" to me because that is how it feels: it doesn't necessarily make any of them scum, but once one of them flips I can review.

Obviously I think Squilly's voting pattern/play this game have been scummy, but I think it's suspicious how he has voted only CDB and Amrun. Yes, it might be me being overly paranoid, but I find it better to be paranoid early than to be too trusting.

Tell me Fegelin, what do you think of the interaction between Amrun and Channel? What do you think of Squilly's votes?

@Jason, still waiting for you to tell us whether you are going to explain your vote or not.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, I probably wouldn't have said anything if he hadn't done it multiple times and provided some horrible logic for one of his votes.

Would you care to expound on what makes you think Amrun is scum? Meta? Slip/tell? Etc etc.

[LnGrrrR]

From what I've seen of Jason, no reason to think he's more likely to behave this way as scum than town. See #51 for actual psychological insight into a KILLER (passive voice to go "naked votes are frowned upon" rather than "I am frowning upon your naked vote" is what you say when you want to avoid owernship of your words).

Do you really actually believe this? I fully explained what I meant the next post, after I realized some people obviously aren't familiar with the English language.

If I were to say something like, "Lying about your claim at L-2 is frowned upon", would you still think that's the "sign of a KILLER"? (Also, I love the way you made sure to capitalize that word to add extra emphasis to your bullshit "scumhunt".)

Lets just get this straight here:

Squilly votes and unvotes nakedly twice and once with a horrible explanation, and hasn't really posted since then = newbtown, totally excusable

LnGrrrR uses the passive voice = obvscum

I'm glad Im not the only one who sucks at scumhunting his game. Join the club Channel.

[LnGrrrR]

And this whole "mysterious voting triangle" is the sort of meaningless coincidence that scum like to point out in lieu of actually scumhunting.

I wasn't sure at first but he's literally not even attempting to draw a conclusion from it, so yes.

This is a good wagon. Amrun is pleased.

Hmm... Well, what did I say about it when I first brought it up?

Also not a fan of the weird triangle between Amrun, ChannelDelibird and Squilly.

Squilly has only "seriously" voted both of you, you and CDB both voted for each other in RVS, and then you both voted me back to back. Not sure what to make of it, but it feels off to me.

I don't know that it is necessarily "indicative" of anything... As I just said above, not sure what to make of it but it feels off. Just a gut reaction that there's too much synchronicity there.

Again, I don't know what to make of it. Something about it feels off, but Im not sure how. I know, Im totally scum for not having the team down rock solid by the whopping fourth page of this game, and goodness forbid I try to post something that isn't a total lead. I should just be like Jason and say "Hey this guy is scum!" and then I wouldn't be suspicious at all. Or just sheep everyone else's vote like Squilly. Or just lurk like half the people in the thread. Then I'd be obvtown!

Amrun, Channel, if you are town, step up your game. I'm really the main person posting so I know it's hard to find other interactions, but try to stop tunneling anyways and take a look.

[LnGrrrR]

Why do it when it shows me scum?

Seriously your vote is bad and you should feel bad.

If he is obvscum, and this isn't just for pressure, then why aren't you pointing it out to town?

[LnGrrrR]

Because if i pointed it out to town, i'd be pointing it out to scum, and if i point it out to scum, they will give less tells surrounding the issue.

Ok, if you are still building your case to prove to town, understandable.

[LnGrrrR]

@Feg, Squilly isn't flailing because... Squilly hasn't posted anything since post 39. Hard to flail when you just start hardcore lurking for two days straight.

Also, I am somewhat "flailing" because I hate when people use bullshit tells like "passive voice" and things like that. Now, if a person is using meta (is person X only says Y when they are scum and not town), that's different. But in my short time playing, I have found that "grammar" scumslips are the most unreliables ones. (The most often stupid example being "he said town instead of us/we!")

Again, if you look back at Newbie 1368, people thought I was scum in it because of the same posting style because I was pissed off against a BS tell. (And yes, blah blah blah self-meta, I am just pointing out that I really think those things are BS without meta to back it up.)

It is also why I understand Jason's reluctance to share why Amrun is scummy, as he may have enough data to back up his own read but not enough to justify to town. If he hasn't presented a case by mid to late day, it is worth looking into then, but for now I see no harm in letting him continue to work the case if he can. I think he's been vague enough that he hasn't tipped off Amrun to whatever made Jason get scumvibes in the first place.

[LnGrrrR]

I really don't care about the fact that he used passive voice. It's the context, and what else he DIDN'T say in that post, and then his reactions to that.

Please explain what else I didn't say, and what you think I should have said.

[LnGrrrR]

@Mod, can we get some prods? I know Squilly hasn't posted in the past 48 hours, and I'm pretty sure there are one or two others as well that could use a poke.

[LnGrrrR]

I don't get the whole "horrible reaction to the wagon" comments. It's more so a reaction to the BS "mind of a killer" grammar analyzing going on. I mean, if you guys have an actual argument, bring it. But I see a lot of wishy washy "his response was bad" without actually identifying what was bad about it. Amrun at least put together a case, though I think it's a weak one.

This reeks of scum caught for the wrong reasons and "why aren't they lynching the scummy newb." Also, calling your own scumhunting bad while also putting down someone voting for you is just all sorts of scummaliciousness.

"Scum caught for the wrong reasons"... What do you mean by that?

And I know that your scum hunting is bad, because you have been tunnelling me and I'm town. That's how I know your current scumhunting skills are lacking.

As far as "posting the most", I think the interactions with me have been the majority of the game so far.

[LnGrrrR]

Scum have a particular type of frustration when they are "caught" for reasons they believe to be shoddy. That's the impression you're giving me.

You were talking about cdb there, not me --nice to see we aren't distinguished in your mind because you're not trying to read us.

First, you admitted that you were likely to "death tunnel" me, so my "sucky scumhunting" is applying to you right now.

Your argument against me originally consisted of passive voice (the whole "naked votes thing") and me talking about weird triangle (which I already noted Im not sure what it means, if anything).

Since then, you have tunneled me and found a scummy mindset for every one of my posts. For instance, your justification for me being "caught" for the wrong reasons. Do you usually have town that don't fight their own mislynch? Since when does town just roll over and die? (Well, good town that is.) My attitude is just from how flimsy the basis of the case is. I am trying to determine whether you and Channel actually believe the case, or whether you're scum.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm discrediting the case because its a horrible case, I am town, and I don't want to be mislynched. As far as determining whether or not you, Channel and Feg are scum, these interactions help. Of course, my main scum read hasn't posted since being called out and will likely get replaced.

How do you think town get frustrated as opposed to scum? (And if I am the mislynch today, I hope you will reevaluate whatever logic led to your idea of different frustrations.)

And while I am guilty of it to some degree in my games, I disagree that thnnelling is a good thing. It's one thing to stick to a read if it isn't changed; it's another to ignore everyone to focus exclusively on your target. (I will note that you haven't been fully thnnelling; you have been looking at Jason's posts too, but that could just be because be has a vote on you.)

[LnGrrrR]

Feg, you aren't part of the circle. I just listed your name because you have jumped in on the case. I would be surprised if all three people on my case (you, Amrun and Channel) were all town.

Why do you have Rach as scum?

[LnGrrrR]

@Mod, is Squilly getting prodded again or replaced?

[LnGrrrR]

I really want to post but I have nothing to contribute. I have weak, aggregate reads on four players and doubt the correctness of all of them.

Which four players? Why do you have the reads you have on those players?

[LnGrrrR]

@Feg, what game did you recently play with Rach? In both of my completed games on this site, Rach was in them, one as scum and one as town, and in both she was pretty lurky. (The only reason she wasn't lynched in the town game was that she was the doc; she was run up the first Day.)

[LnGrrrR]

@Toomai, how many games have you played before? Any here?

[LnGrrrR]

Nevermind, saw the sig. Can you tell us what games you have played in, and whether you were scum, town or other?

[LnGrrrR]

@Syryana, Rach is like how she was in those two games. Extremely lurky. I will have to go back through her games to catch the difference between her scum and town, but to my recollection she had more "useless" questions/observations as scum, and tried to avoid questions asked of her in lieu of fluffy posting.

So far I have Rach as town. She is asking questions that seem genuine.

[LnGrrrR]

@Stubbs, why did you ask Oriole if he was town in your first post? When have you played with him before?

@Marquis, care to do anything?

[LnGrrrR]

@Marquis, have you ever played Rach when she was town?

[LnGrrrR]

Thanks Rach.

@Marquis, when you are referring to Rach's meta, what games were you thinking about specifically? Was it the one that Rach mentioned? Can you give an example of a "towny" Rach post?

[LnGrrrR]

@Stubbs, I think town has waited long enough for Jason to provide something. He hasn't really done anything this game at all; his last post with actual content was Tuesday. That said, Im pretty sure he is town, but the pack of content is frustrating.

Really not liking Fferry's vote on Stubbs. In post 206, she says:

I did a comparison of Stubb's and oriole's reads lists after Stubbs replied to my question. I thought their lists had enough similarities to account for Stubbs liking the list. I wanted to wait for more interactions from both of them to see if clarification on the differences would happen, and who would initiate that. Oh well.

Some of your other points are pretty relevant. I have made comments in games about wanting a particular player to be town before. As town. I get flack for it, but when I think it could indicate some bias on my part I throw it out there. Players that I want to be town are usually the players I am most paranoid about.

One thing from metadiving stubbs for other games - he usually puts down pretty solid trajectories on his early votes/unvotes. Not seeing that here.

Mostly defense of Stubbs, with a slight "out" at the end. Then, post 207, Syryana says, "Pedit2: You know you want to vote Stubbs nao, fery."

To which Ffery responds in 208 with:

Pedit: Oh, is that what you meant by timing? Makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Pedit2: You know you want to vote Stubbs nao, fery.

Yep. Checking vote count. And it's 3

Vote: Stubbs

If you actually felt Stubbs was scummy, why didnt you vote him post 206? Why defend his views, then turn around and vote him 2 posts later? Syr didn't even give you a reason to change your mind, and you didn't list any when you voted. Feels pretty scummy.

[LnGrrrR]

Thanks Rach.

@Marquis, when you are referring to Rach's meta, what games were you thinking about specifically? Was it the one that Rach mentioned? Can you give an example of a "towny" Rach post?

@Marquis, please answer these.

[LnGrrrR]

Vote: Marquis

Frankly I feel JW has been more helpful.

How has Jason been more helpful?

Additionally, I will be pretty pissed if Marquis ends up getting replaced as well. It is still early enough to avoid a modkill, but I really dislike when a slot gets replaced multiple times.

[LnGrrrR]

@Marquis,

You know what I dislike? The utter lack of ANYTHING from your slot. Scum hunting, giving any reads besides Rach... Could you possibly provide something? There's a lot of people doing a lot of nothing this game.

And you keep avoiding my questions from post 236. Do I need to post them again?

[LnGrrrR]

I would be fine with a Jason lynch. I initially had a town read on him, with the assumption that he would elucidate his "Amrun scum" read, but his lack of any content or explanation (especially given that Amrun has posted a great deal), and his naked intent to hammer on Stubbs make me with his lynch today.

That said, I am also fine with my vote on Marquis. He has been posting more, but his posts have been empty, and he has refused to answer my questions about his "meta Rach" read multiple times.

Considering we only have two days, and the Marquis wagon is currently larger, I am keeping my vote there. If enough people want to move to Jason instead, I am willing to throw my vote on that wagon (assuming Jason remains useless through the deadline).

[LnGrrrR]

Hey Syr

It's down to just a couple days before nightfall. I'm thinking Jason may be the better lynch. He's been a lurksack all game day and has been pretty damned closed-mouthed when he does make an appearance.

If you think Jason is a better lynch, you should probably be voting him.

[LnGrrrR]

I'll vote when I'm damned good and ready to vote.

Here's hoping it will be in the next two days. Cheers!

[LnGrrrR]

@Ffery, you played with scum!Jason in Newbie 1389. How does his game there compare to this one?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun,

Why aren't "people playing poorly" scummy to you? What makes you think Jason and/or Marquis is town? Did you bother to read Ffery's link in which Jason hardcore lurked as scum?

Your scum huntin still sucks by the way. Stop tunnelling.

[LnGrrrR]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JasonWazza

There doesn't seem to be enough momentum for Marquis, so I'm fine moving my vote to here.

[LnGrrrR]

That's L-2, by the way.

[LnGrrrR]

@CDB, do you think there are two towny JOATs?

@Jason, tell us why you think Amrun is scum. I think you have had enough time to gauge reactions.

And /barn Channel's question... Why no reaction to the Stubbs claim? I am pretty dubious about that claim. A JOAT with three pretty weak abilities.

The only wagon I could see myself jumping to is Marquis at the moment.

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun, Channel,

I think we should be discussing the claim more, personally. There are no guarantees that the night phase will "sort it out."

The problem I have is that one JOAT (Stubbs) is much stronger and much less flavorful than the other (JasonWazza). I am inclined to believe Stubbs, because Jason's are so weak. All of his abilities require a good number of things to happen for any of them to be effective. I'm not familiar with this mod, but it just seems like bad design.

I highly doubt there are two JOATs though, with one being of "normal" power and the other being low.

@Amrun, also I would argue that anyone being seen as scum could be seen to be playing "poorly", since the whole point is to look towny as town or scum (barring say, if you have a power role, in which you might want to stay somewhere in the middle.) Also, what specifically don't you like about Ffery?

[LnGrrrR]

@Channel,

Fair enough. Thanks for the insight.

UNVOTE:

I would like to hear some more from Marquis.

@Jason, now that the deadline is extended, could you explain your reads?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun, I disagree. If you are town, your main goal should be proving that you are town. Active lurking, not sharing reads, etc etc, none of this leads one to believe that someone is "towny", and especially creates chances for mislynches later in the game. Why? Because by not doing the above, they reduce the amount of info out there on them. Town obviously doesn't care about how much info they produce, but scum certainly do.

The reason I have found Jason more and more scummy is that he has refused to explain his scum read on you, even given multiple chances to do so. The same goes with Marquis; he has listed Rach as scum, and refused to explain why given multiple chances, and Squilly's scummy naked votes didn't help.

If you want a full T/S list I can provide one, but I will ask you do the same then.

[LnGrrrR]

@Channel,

Forgot to ask this before, but if you think Nexus would be likely to include two JOATs, do you think our other town PRs (assuming we have some) would be strong (ie cop/doc) or weak (one of Jason's abilities)?

I don't want to rely too much on modgaming D1, but since you seem familiar with his setups Im curious as to what you think about possible remaining PRs.

[LnGrrrR]

Not going there

at all

.

Ok, but keep it in mind.

[LnGrrrR]

he was a teeny lil blond kid that got petrified with his camera in the 2nd movie. Like the rest, he did not actually die because he saw the reflection of the basilisk and not straight on.

Filch's kitty saw it from the water mess on the floor.
Colin his camera.
Justin through nearly headless Nick who was a ghose.
Hermione and the Ravenclaw prefect girl cant remember her name, through a mirror. I do remember Percy was sweet on her.

Filch does seem a tad odd though, he was a rather nasty fellow... Though it really did not show completely til book 5.

Thanks for the info Rach. I didn't realize/remember there were so many basilisk interactions. I will have to pay attention next time I watch that movie!

[LnGrrrR]

VOTE: Marquis

Marquis, you have gotten quiet again. Wha do you think of the current game state?

[LnGrrrR]

Yeah, Im fine with thinking that's an OMGUS vote, since that is what it is. And considering you started posting as soon as I voted you tells me that my pressure vote worked.

It's confusing, particularly your vote on me which

I'm assuming is intended for pressure

, but really just looks like scum overdoing it in not wanting to be called out for not putting their money where their mouth is.

If you think I am scum, then you wouldn't be assuming that was intended for pressure, you would be assuming it was to put pressure on you for a mislynch. The wording you choose is suspect.

Why is me asking you what you think of the game state a "bullshit" question? Considering you have lurked a great deal, and haven't explained your reads, I think it is a very fair question. The less reads scum put out, the less chance they will get caught in a contradictory stance that can't be explained.

[LnGrrrR]

EBWODP: Blah, that didnt come out as clear as I meant it. You say "Im assuming is intended for pressure" which makes it sound like Im coming at you from a town mindset, but it "looks like" a scum mindset, even though you know it isn't (because, you know, you are scum and know Im town).

[LnGrrrR]

I think Amrun is right.

About me being scum, or Marquis being town?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun, explain how it is "distancing" from my vote when Marquis replaced Squilly, who I was voting for since near the beginning of day? You know, kinda like how you have been voting me since the beginning of day. As far as "not one valid point", Squilly's votes were horrible. And it is hard to bring up "points" against someone when they don't say a whole lot other than "Rach is scum" and throw out an OMGUS vote.

Genuine tone, my ass. You wouldn't know "genuine tone" if it walked up to you, said "Hello my name is Genuine Tone, nice to meet you," and then handed you his business card.

@Marquis, I didn't ask you that question; I asked Ffery. Why did you try to answer for her?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun, because all game you have been calling me scum, and Im town, so that's a RATHER OBVIOUS INDICATOR for me. Sheesh.

And you are misrepping my vote anyways. Please show me where I said it was for pressure only, and/or that I don't find the Marquis slot anyways. If you really think Marquis is town, then point out posts he has made that are similar to other games he was town. Marquis hasn't done anything towny in my eyes, and you're saying his "tone is genuine" certainly isn't enough to clear him for me.

Let me out it this way Amrun: You are spectacularly, flat out wrong about me and my alignment. So why should I trust your "gut" when it comes to Marquis?

[LnGrrrR]

We have only until tomorrow. Marquis and I should both claim, and you can lynch whoever is the best option. (Hint: Im pretty sure it will be him.)

[LnGrrrR]

No, we should settle on one player and make only them claim. We already have two claimed power roles out and now you're sounding almost excited at the possibility of revealing more such claims!

Your reading comprehension skills are weak.

[LnGrrrR]

If no one comes in to vote Marquis, then I will claim to move people off my wagon to prevent a no-lynch.

[LnGrrrR]

Yes, Toomai. I wouldn't have claimed normally, but Channel and Amrun have their head up their butts.

Also, Im pretty sure there is a serial killer in this game.

[LnGrrrR]

My take is that one of them are probably lying. Look at my skepticism when Jason claimed, and how much I pressed Channel on the viability of both of them.

I am just going to claim now since half the game is lurky anyways.

I am nearly Headless Nick, a one shot Doc, and Hogwart aligned. (Curious that neither of our two claims mentioned anything about being aligned.) I can try to protect someone each night from the Basilisk: if I do so, then they get stumped. If not successful, I can keep trying. Once the basilisk dies, I become a normal 1 shot doc.

Given the wording, I have a feeling the Basilisk is an SK instead of straight scum.

[LnGrrrR]

@PA, given some time to think anout it, Stubbs claim is probably the "fake" one, since mine is underpowered as Jason's is. (Not a "normal" doc), plus his claim semi-conflicts with mine (Docshot). That said, if we are stuck with one shot docs and weak investigative powers, scum better not be "normally" powered.

[LnGrrrR]

Oh and starting to doubt Channel's towniness. It should be pretty obvious that I wasn't "excited" about having to claim, since I have been trying to throw Amrun and him off of me all game with not-so-subtle hints. Channel seems less sincere; Amrun just seems to be too stuck on how awesome he is at reading people.

[LnGrrrR]

@Marquis, I know it sucks, but you need to either come up with a really strong case on someone ASAP or claim. We need to lynch tomorrow.

[LnGrrrR]

UNVOTE:

My reads are all screwy, and if I live until tomorrow I will re read, but for now:

VOTE: Stubbs

This is a dumb vote, because of all the claims we should be letting live it is him (having the strongest claim). I will move my vote if needed. But Im starting to think Stubbs claim is off.

[LnGrrrR]

@F-16, Yes tree stumped.

I will use my doc protect on one of the claimed PR's. I will let the scum WIFOM.

[LnGrrrR]

Because they should be able to prove their claim tomorrow. And it's better to protect claimed PRs than potential VTs. One of them is probably telling the truth, which means scum is going for them.

Setting any sort of explicit target means that scum could NK an unclaimed person, and introduce WIFOM to get the PR lynched.

[LnGrrrR]

You are voting someone you would protect?

I could be wrong. Im not egotistical enough to know for sure he is lying and not try to protect. Frankly, his abilities are much stronger than Jason or I's, and if he is telling the truth, lynching him would be a huge blow to town.

[LnGrrrR]

@F-16, not sure if you read the comments, but I am not sure who to lynch today. Im still down for Marquis, but I voted Stubbs to give Marquis a chance.

Also, if I did and people read my ISO, a vote stands out moreso than text, so occasionally I vote people who I think there is something fishy about, even if I don't want them lynched that Day.

But since people are getting their panties in a twist...

UNVOTE:

:p

[LnGrrrR]

Eh, I am frustrated that we have likely outed at least two, and possibly three, power roles on D1. I'm frustrated that Amrun is likely playing poorly. I'm frustrated that half the town is lurky. And Im frustrated that people weren't smart enough to get off my wagon for BS reasons.

Being suspicious of my claim is, frankly, dumb. Go look at my reaction to the dual JOAT claim, or even Rach's flavor post about people that survived the basilisk.

Again, if I just say "I'm protecting Jason!" then scum could not go after town!Stubbs. Then town mislynches town!Stubbs because he is still alive, and now we lose his other abilities.

Actually though...

@Stubbs, can your doc shot self protect?

If so, then protect yourself tonight, and I will protect Jason, so Jason can use one of his investigations.

[LnGrrrR]

VOTE: Marquis

Best wagon for now. I will try to stick around to change the vote if need be.

@CDB, do you understand now why I wanted both of us to claim quickly? If we had waited until we got to L-1, we would have even less time to debate.

[LnGrrrR]

That should be L-1 by the way. Marquis, claim quick, and if you are a VT, throw out any good reads you have.

[LnGrrrR]

@Marquis, thanks for that. And sorry for tunnelling you so much if you are town.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, will you be around before the deadline? If so, wait to hammer. If not, hammer now.

[LnGrrrR]

I will share who I protected after everyone checks in.

For now

VOTE: Fferylit

Please explain why you didn't hammer.

CDB was a strange nightkill. He was tunneled on me most of yesterday. Who else did he suspect?

The two other main suspects of his were Stubbs and Jason, which doesn't tell us much, due to WIFOM.

Stubbs, Jason, feel free to post results, or hold back until everyone checks in like I plan to.

[LnGrrrR]

Fair enough, and a good towny response.

UNVOTE:

[LnGrrrR]

F-16, anything that would have been self-conscious, or too defensive. If she had said something like, "I already told you I don't like to be pressured into voting" or "He was town, why are you suspicious?" etc etc

[LnGrrrR]

@F-16, why out that you had a role if you didn't plan on using it until a few days from now? :p you might be the target of a NK now, which may mean your investigation never gets posted.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, can we assume you did get a result?

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, well if you got a result, it might make my decision on who to protect easier, but you could be scum WIFOM'ing so I guess it doesn't truly matter at the moment.

[LnGrrrR]

Are you talking about me? I would think the flavor of the kill should make it pretty damned obvious that I wasn't lying.

[LnGrrrR]

The fact that Im a doc without a cc should be pretty damn obvious. If the basilisk kill is a SK, why didn't another body hit the floor? Considering that Stubbs claimed roleblock, it couldn't have been him. I highly doubt a third doc role for town.

If I'm a scum doc, and the basilisk is a SK, there should be two bodies.

@Jason, are you aligned?

[LnGrrrR]

Fwiw, the reason I thought the Basilisk might be an SK is because it states in my role that if the Basilisk is killed, I become a 1 shot regular doctor; as long as the Basilisk is alive, I can continue to try and protect until I am successful.

Given that no 2nd body hit the floor, I think it is safe to say that the Mafia have the basilisk. Whoever that is, his NK is obviously stronger than a normal one, since the doc protect won't truly "save" the person, but stump them instead. (Some might say that's "better" as an unkillable confirmed townie, but it does take a vote away.)

[LnGrrrR]

Here is what I don't get... If Stubbs was roleblocked, why weren't Jason or I killed? Scum trying to introduce WIFOM and have town mislynch? Just throws me off.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, have you explained why you thought Amrun is scummy yet?

[LnGrrrR]

Eh, some info is better than none Stubbs. Shoot.

[LnGrrrR]

Is anyone actually playing this game?

@mod, can we get some prods?

[LnGrrrR]

Blah. There's way too many people prod-dodging then.

@Toomai, Jason, Amrun, Syryana, please do something useful. List some scum, ask some questions, bug someone.

[LnGrrrR]

Sure, I can get behind this.

VOTE: Toomai

Please do something.

[LnGrrrR]

@Toomai, I would rather you ask BAD questions, or make BAD observations, than do neither.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason,

Here's the plan. Either scumhunt, or give results, or no protection for you, because you haven't done one towny thing yet this game.

@Rach, what are your current reads.

@PA, you had Stubbs and I as pinging scumdar yesterDay. Who is pinging now?

.

[LnGrrrR]

@Stubbs, did you lose your shot, or do you get to keep it since you were roleblocked?

[LnGrrrR]

Good to hear. I don't think we should out this info, but you should see if you can self-protect with the doc shot.

[LnGrrrR]

/barn Ffery on Rach, including her lack of posting dropping her to leantown/null. Ffery and Toomai jump into my town pile (that's a lot of work for scum to do re Toomai, not saying scum can't do work but there are better places for pressure now). I will be curious to hear what Syr thinks of Ffery's case. While I think the case comes from a townie perspective, Im not totally sold on it; enough of those posts sounded towny enough to me to not have PA under great suspicion yet.

UNVOTE:

Not liking Jason at all much. Would like to see what Amrun thinks... Been quite quiet toDay.

[LnGrrrR]

@Jason, you're a horrible player and you have done nothing.

Have you figured out a reason for claiming Amrun is scum yet? Oh and I guess your theory is that Amrun and I just decided to his way other from the jump for an entire day?

What have YOU done that makes you town hm? Do you think that just yelling out random statements is helpful?

If you are town, prove it. Either give us info, or scum hunt. Because as long as you are acting like this, I am going to protect Stubbs, or even take a chance at protecting a random townie, then protect someone who is so ridiculously anti-town.

Your assertion that you won't share the info you learned toDay makes no sense. What if you are the NK toNight? Then your investigation is wasted. And considering that there are two JOAT claims, proving that at least ONE of them is town would go a long way towards helping to analyze the wagons. But hey, you haven't been helpin town all game, why start now?

[LnGrrrR]

Oh and you ignored my question .. Why didnt you mention your alignment in your claim?

[LnGrrrR]

Hey Jason, why don't you explain your scum read on Amrun?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JasonWazza

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun,

Good post. In answer to your questions:

As I explained above, as long as the Basilisk is alive I can continue to try and protect until I am succesful. Once the Basilisk is dead, I become a normal one shot.

Re: tunnelling, it's not inherently scummy or towny, but I do think it is bad play. I tunneled Marquis a bit Day 1, which is what I apologized for.

Re: NK WIFOM, what I meant was that why weren't Jason or I the targets of the nightkill? I just don't see why they hit Channel instead. It throws some suspicion on us, but at the cost of keeping power roles alive.

Re: worrying about scum, there's a lot of lurkers this game; getting them to post, and commit to positions, will help me scumhunt.
@Jason,

You say my vote is useless, but it got you to start posting at least. And I wasn't just voting because you are lurky; not explaining your scum read on Amrun after repeated attempts to get you to answer is scummy. You dodged it again above.

And I said I wouldn't bother protecting you if you didn't interact, scumhunt, or help the town in some way. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I find it interesting that you have been claiming Im scum for awhile, and now have switched your stance over to "anti-town". Also, the fact that you believe I am a doc ties in to that. If so, who are your current scum reads?

@Syryana, does Ffery look scummy to you?

@Ffery, does Syryana look scummy to you?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun, do you think having a RB shot for town, and a mafia Roleblocker, is unlikely?

[LnGrrrR]

@Amrun,

Not sure how much I can reword it without getting mod killed.

If Basilisk is alive, I can try to protect against the Basilisk kill. If I do so successfully, that player is tree stumped, and I lose my protect. If I don't protect successfully, I can keep trying.

If Basilisk is dead, I am a regular one-use Doctor.

That's the closest I think I can get.

[LnGrrrR]

@F-16, it might not be useless. Hard to say right now.

@Rach, you are our flavor guru, anything about fruit?

[LnGrrrR]

My brain is against lynching Stubbs, because he is by far the strongest claimed power role we have. Rereading through his ISO, he is pretty null to me; he has just been floating through the game, not really scumhunting or pushing any lynches.

Tempted to leave him alive one last night to try to prove something, but assuming he is telling the truth, he will probably just be roleblocked again, Jason won't share any info, and we will be no further than we were yesterDay apart from the flip.

If he is town, then scum roleblocks me and takes out Jason, and all 3 claimed power roles are gone. That's a big swing. I don't think I am ready to risk the fact that Stubbs is lying yet.

Pretty positive that F-16 and Amrun are town. Jason won't be touched for the same reason as Stubbs. MSG is looking towny enough, and as mentioned by others, that looks to be a good deal of work from Toomai if he is scum.

That leaves:

RachMarie
Penguin-alien
Fferylit
Syryana

Syr needs to post something.

[LnGrrrR]

What, exactly, do you think stubbs could prove?

Good point, actually. Of the trio, only the RB shot could prove he was being truthful (if say, he blocked a NK; I doubt that mafia would forego the NK for a mislynch at this phase, as it gives town more info). The doc and copshot could be easily faked by scum.

I'm starting to think that Channel was killed because he seemed familiar with Nexus setups. The Stubbs claim (lack of flavor + much stronger than the other power roles + other JOAT claim) just doesn't fit. But (WIFOM APPROACHING), not sure how semi-bastardy the mod would be, to include a role that didnt fit for the express purpose of messing with town's heads. Blah.

@Amrun, who are you currently leading towards for scum?

[LnGrrrR]

I can confirm that my ability is not labeled as "doc".

[LnGrrrR]

Yeesh town. F16 and I figured out Ffery and nacho were scum like d4

Good game all!

[LnGrrrR]

Oh and I tried my best on D1 to shake CDB and Amrun off. I did everything I could apart from saying, "I AM A POWER ROLE" to no avail. Honestly, I find it best to back off a read like that and let them be "normal" for awhile and see if they make another scumslip, but everyone has different styles.