Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Humble Poirot]

Seriously? 4 hydras. This is appalling.

I was going to vote the hydra I saw (in the queue there was only one so I thought, bad, but not terrible) even though I don't really like random voting because I thought I could pressure them from the get go; But this looks insane.

Even though it's from just few experiences, I've seen hydras being awfully anti-town changing their views over-night and "hiding behind their other head".

Mafia wasn't supposed to be a game in which you could excuse yourself in multiple personality disorder. We are supposed to be able to judge the character of the other players and see if their actions fit what they supposedly are. I pride myself in trying to put in other people's shoes to determine their alignment (instead of using any rules set on stone).

Since when do minis allow for unlimited stuff like this? It gives me the vibes of immature forum mafia sites.

Anyway. This is my warning to all hydras. I'm treating you like any other player. I won't accept excuses like:

a) the other head read it.
b) I didn't say that.
c) He thinks x but I think y.
d) I don't read the game but he does.

or others in a similar vein. You're warned.

@Hydras:

1) Are you ok with this?
2) Do any of you think they will do this?
3) Do you consider you'll be fully committed to the game despite having a fallback guy who can carry you even if you don't pay attention?
4) Do you have a regular mean to confer with your other head?

@Non-hydras:

What are your opinions about what I just said?

[Humble Poirot]

Cool, could you answer any of the questions I asked you?

[Humble Poirot]

You do realize that it would be just as easy to actually answer what will become self-evident instead of vaguely leaving the answers open for interpretation when it suits you?

Correct me if I'm wrong (what I infer from you):
1) By your vote an attitude, I guess you're not OK.
2) You refuse to say whether you or others will do this (Do you fear some kind of trap?).
3) I'd assume you will be.
4) Why not answer this? Why is it pointless? Can't I be the judge of that?

Also, why not tell me this when voting for me? Don't you think reasoning for votes will help us move along faster and give us something to talk about other than scumdays and RVS votes?

[Humble Poirot]

Really? I'd say that his vote and posterior "I don't care, I'll do what I want" is a good example of "not being OK with it".

I realize cryptic and confrontational when I see it so I'll just wait for more people to chip in.

I notice you haven't answered all my questions so, before I go to sleep, I'd like answer for this:

4) Why not answer this? Why is it pointless? Can't I be the judge of that?

and this:

Also, why not tell me this when voting for me?

It shouldn't be a problem since you appear quite economical with your words.

@Sound of Silence:

It should be self evident

But seriously, of course. I am doing it right now. If you have any doubts about my own commitment, look at my past games. And if you want to see where I'm coming from about hydras look at the game I modded.

Now, having said that, I realize you quoted my answer to rail tracer, not the first post. So it seems like there's an implication what I'm doing is NOT actually hunting. If so... then Who IS? Are YOU?

[Humble Poirot]

In the process of catching up/replying I realized I had written a dissertation about hydras so I decided that I'd trim it down to the benefit of the game (notes are saved, just in case).

Just in case someone missed Rail Tracer's link of my game: Hacker's panic mafia.

I didn't recall EXACTLY what happened but:
- poor game.
- hydra signs posts (perfect for squizo excuse)
- posted wrong account (harder to iso)
- made it to lylo

After skimming the link I saw that he also:
- screwed lylo
- had no problems about it.

Yes. I know I'm biased by one performance but that was modding, now I'm playing and I actually have to deal with reading a hydra. Which is why I need all the tools I can get.

As for the 2 years ago issue. Not relevant. It's been a long while since I played mafia. Finally, it's not HATE or GRUDGE, but concern.

Noise: I considered the possibility. Don't like useless starting questions. Don't think these are.

exceptional: This game is. Can't just get rid of hydras nor pretend they don't exist. I need to learn to read them somehow.

dismissiveness: My views/questions are getting trashed subjectively. Not much I can do about it.

@rail tracer

30 I never said they wouldn't have a method. In my head, I'd receive information as to what method and probably derive further knowledge from that (qt->review history together, chat->casual time dependent, irl->constant communication)

None of that is useful in itself (considering things could change or they could outright lie) but tiny details as to how things work can uncover things that might've been easily missed otherwise.

as for the "~reasons~" part: I get it; You enjoy being combative but I'd like you to make an effort and meet me half way. No matter how stupid you think my inquiries migth be, and actually answer. I'm making an effort not to extend myself with long posts in return.

@Rail

33: I understand where you come from but disagree. And If I "berate" a hydra it'll have a reason. If you do something scummy, it'll be scummy regardless of any questions I might or might not have asked.

I have been caught in the game of trying to hard to figure out who is the hydra and figuring who is saying what, fools game I say know though.

What do you mean, who is the hydra? trying to find the person behind it? If that's so, it's akin to trying to find who's alt X is and it seems quite hard to pull off, specially on your own. You admit it's a "fool's game" and yet, you do it and post it. why?

@brian

28: Your suggested alternative for "all it needs to be said" doesn't help me in my process of discerning how hydras work and how to best investigate them.
I don't care about approval (there's no "may I" there and I issued warnings) but I do care about their reactions to my questions. Are they helpful? Concerned? Do they ignore it? etc.

But I never said I liked his questions. They're pretty useless in my opinion and I don't see how they can help us scumhunt. After browsing other games, I feel like a lot of useless pages will be produced from arguing about them.

And yet, you didn't mention this. You only mention it now.

woah. you're really reading the whole thing? I'm so sorry for you.

@artemiskitty:

what whole rvs thing is true? (from 52)

@Rebel:

You posted some non-committal answers and nothing else in 45. Wasn't there anything you could talk about? anyone you could vote?
Also, when you say Rail, Briand and me (please, call me HP) seem rather town you seem to name 3 out of the 4 players I consider where available in the immediate beginning. You ommited SOS. Why? What do you see in us that you don't see in him?

notes:

- FuDuzn's reaction (after what could be like mild activity) to the votes on him is odd. A little too concerned. As if a scum player who thought himself acting in the same way as always was getting flak and immediately got annoyed.
- I'm taking saki's claim at face value for now but expect a confirmation and serious play when she comes back.
- Rail Tracer and SOS are my early leaning town reads. (It's just mild, I don't need to confuse aggressive and logical respectively with town but they appear intent to scumhunt, in their own way).
- hope to hear from mario and feng soon.

[Humble Poirot]

You're kidding, right?

Mod please delete one......or leave it. Who am I to tell you what to do.

15. I do not fix tags or edit posts, even if you ask me to.

[Humble Poirot]

@FuDuzn:

116: One vote and a little pressure and you start appealing to emotion calling for people to "lynch you and get over with"? Claiming you're a victim (using the word townie) and talking about "actual scummy players"...

Why would a town player act so defeated so fast? This looks like misdirection. It's not done after a wagon, it's done immediatly and without actual intent of showing who you think is scum.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

What wagon? The one in your head? how many players where voting you when you asked this? Specify who was sheeping. What makes you so important that you keep talking as if others should treat you as town because you say so and leave you alone?
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@HC:

I think you need to work on your own opinions instead of thanking everyone so much and repeating the same things the majority seems to think.
Mario makes a good point about you curiously calling out feng but not mario. When I looked at the "inactive players". I spotted mario immediatly (which is why I said this in my post "hope to hear from mario and feng soon." which you allegedly read)

The difference between you and Fegelein is that you already have contributed to the game much more than he has.

LIE. BIG FAT LIE. At the point you chose to omit Mario. Mario hadn't done anything.

Saying "there's scum on a wagon" is the most useless thing one can do. Statistically, in every grouping of 4 players there's likely to a scum player.

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@Dessew:

134: So... You're saying that every mistake I consider suspicious from HC actually strikes you as town? how so?
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@Saki

: I'd normally be annoyed about the fake claim but it might have stirred some reactions so I'll allow it but you need to step up your game and do it fast.

This bullshit one line nonsense posting you seem to hide behind is not helpful at all.

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@SOS & related to @Saki

:
SOS excusing saki for DOING NOTHING (retracting a fake claim) is absurd. We don't need to reward that kind of playstyle. "Playing more conservatively" means town? Why? Why can't he be scum who sees he's getting lynched to fast for joking around?
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@brian:

Your take on the game is different from my recollection. Maybe you're right but the gist of it is that it's confusing and a game changer. Which is why I'm trying to amass a set of tools to be able to read them. As for those concerned that I will only focus on hydras, not to worry, there's scummy players all around.

I used the game as reference because that's what I had in mind when I saw the hydra in the queue. I simply don't like the concept but this will be a good game to prove me otherwise.

I want to know if it is warranted or if he's just directing the attention towards them.

Wait, weren't you voting me? I thought you thought I was "pretending to be active" or something like that. Is this a continued inquiry or you forgot what you seemed to think, earlier?

HP's later reaction to Rail Tracer refusing to answer his questions brought back this feeling.

Can you develop on this, please? What reaction and why did they bring the feeling back?
156: Did you eat a lawyer or something? You seem to be circling around defining exactly why you think/thought I'm/was scum/scummy.

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DB:

14: see, 107 and my replies to Rail.
I'm puzzled. You attack brian saying my analysis was spot on and yet you too said (in 152, the very same post you attacked brian):

if you hate hydras then these things kinda don't need to be said anymore, its pretty obvious.

What gives?
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@artemiskitty:

You're a machine of calling people town without actually bothering to explain why. In fact, you don't even explain why you think people are scum either.
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@Rail Tracer:

You still haven't explained why I had to prod you for an explanation after you voted me.

If you mean brian (isaac? huh?) then the answer lies in the very same post you replied to.
You're forcing a self-fullfilling profesy.
You claimed I was making a big deal about hydras and we had a back and forth. You asked more questions which I replied to (amongst a sizeable amount of non-hydra stuff) and you know KEEP going on about the hydras and pretending that's all I'm talking about.

If you ASK me questions relating to hydras I will answers questions relating to hydras. Your confirmation bias is horrible, the more you talk about them the more you pretend I do too. In a way, you're doing what you accuse me of in a worse degree.

Also, you keep misrepresenting me about "Hating" (in fact, several players are) hydras when I made it clear I don't. I'm just terribly wary of the concept. Which no one can deny its confusing. And NO, you can't deny it.

You need to shake that crappy confirmation bias you seem to have an pay attention to what I write instead of working so hard to convince yourself.

re: FuDuzn: It was a mild read so far, but yeah. That's why I said he made me think of a "scum player who..."
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After the FuDuzn AtE I was willing to vote him but then I encountered HC's big fat lie and finally we have saki that warrants a wagon until she demonstrates she can play (if you don't think she can or are willing to excuse her meta I can show you a game where she was she made descriptive posts - check her history).

It doesn't happen often that I find 3 vote-worthy players that easily

Big fat lie trumps anti-town start and AtE though.

Vote HopefullyCynical

[Humble Poirot]

Do people actually still believe that AtE is a scumtell, or do they insist on bringing it up simply for nostalgia's sake?

There's no rulebook of scumtells for me. I try to fit motives with people and decide what their actions mean based on themselves and context.

AtE can certainly be used by scum to avoid their lynch. In any case, it's extremely anti-town and should be discouraged.

@Sos: I'm not saying this game. I'm saying that, maybe he has realized his play style doesn't yield results and is trying to keep "hiding behind crazy" but doing it in a more conservative fashion. I'm just speculating because I don't have time to really study him but he has, with this preview edit, already shown that he is going to defiantly keep playing like this.

Do Not excuse that kind of play style. It's not helpful in any case.

@saki: You're lucky HC lied. Otherwise, responses like that will guarantee I'll do my utmost effort to lynch you asap.

[Humble Poirot]

re HC:
The point is that:

- he could've admitted he had missed mario's lack of activity (specially when, upon being asked, he said " He hasn't posted anything worthwhile and seems content to fly under the radar")
- he could've said he was influenced by others talking about Fegelein (more presence in his mind due to more talk about him).

Any of those, I'd understood. Those are what you could call "mistakes" in a sense. What he did was lie.

He chose to, on the spot, justify himself making up, in the process, what he considered a suitable excuse.

As for it being easily verifiable, that assumes no one ever would slip up. It's easily verifiable if you pay a degree of attention, if you respond impulsively because you want to defend yourself and make up something in the process, you might just miss the fact that it you can be found in a lie.

two things. first, i only give reasons early on when i feel they're necessary. i feel i get more telling reactions from someone when they don't know exactly why i'm voting them. second, why does it even matter?

It matters because, whatever you may think. I'm hunting too and you're part of the people I need to read. I need to know if what you did and how you act is consistent with how you characterize yourself.

I need to know if you started what I consider confirmation bias after I "pestered" you with questions early on or if there's malice behind your instant dismissiveness of most I do (For example, calling my non-hydra posting mechanical and lacking emotion - why should I display emotion? - but also calling my hydra game emotion-full but fake to appear active, or something of the sort).

As for you continuing the hydra conversation, I can now see you're right in that you didn't ask me questions directly but:

you asked me to explain things

hopefully hp will explain why his hatred for hydras from 2 years ago has carried over into this game.

which prompted much of what you later described as :

but he's making a much bigger deal out of it than he should be considering a single bad experience with a single hydra.

So you ask me why I think this benefits him as scum? In the short run, it makes it seem like he's doing something when he really isn't. Compare the game-relevant content of his posts so far to the amount of times he's mentioned his feelings about his hatred for hydras. It appears he's written a lot, but only a very tiny fraction of what he's written is game-relevant.

Which is frankly bullshit (and part of the self-fulfilling prophecy of pretending I write nothing but hydrae stuff) and I can't stand by idle and not reply to your opinions (I get it, you didn't ask me) in 125.

So, what I'd like to clearly show is that:
- YES. Absolutely yes. You're fueling the talk about hydrea using it as a mean of attack and dismissing anything else I might say or do and later, when I refute your opinions or explain things you pretend I keep "making a bigger deal about hydras to appear active".

i am paying attention to what you write. that is why i don't think you're town.

Heh, it's funny that, only after me saying you're not paying attention, you dared ask me about anything I'd done that wasn't hydra related. I realize I might risk your confirmation bias going even further if I damage your ego with observations like this one but, who knows, I might be surprised.

[Humble Poirot]

Yet again. Everything I do or say is "ridiculous", "irrelevant", "fake".

Instead of demeaning words, try to back up your statements with arguments. I know you're not going to convince me but you don't seem to be trying to convince anyone else either, just tarnishing me and asking "why" to whoever has a different read.

Explain why the scumhunting isn't genuine and offer examples of people with genuine scumhunting (and, if there are, people with fake scumhunting as well).

Dropping or ignoring a subject that's of inquiry would simply be bad play. You don't seem to have minded what dessew said about me feeling obligated to answer you (which is pretty much what I said earlier).

What are your reads on the players of this game?

[Humble Poirot]

@Dessew: Have you read my analysis of HC's lie (detailed per request in 171)?

[Humble Poirot]

Re: Motivations, it's funny because I'm getting accused of not doing the very thing I do most. I analyze motivations instead of thinking action A -> scummy or action B -> town.

In fact, that's what I did with HC and why I'm voting him right now. I disagree with both Dessew and railtracer that it's a mistake. and

If It was too easy to see (that mario posted after his call on only one lurker) the

Why on earth did he do it and why it makes him town

?

rail accuses me of not looking at town motivation when doing so when he doesn't consider scum motivation when doing so (this is consistent with doing the exact things he accuses me of, quite annoying).

HC REACTED immediately by looking for an excuse for his vote instead of going back and checking (or admitting he didn't really know). That's a scummy thing to do, the likelihood of doing it as scum is much higher of doing it as town where he shouldn't have felt the need to defend himself instead with something he didn't know to be true.

If someone has a free vote, placing it on Saki seems like a good idea.

@Brian: I believed I had (see where I talk about not liking the concept). The lylo thing is anecdotal (I mentioned that the post where I gave the link), it's like saying X player makes it to lylo and screws it up. No, obviously not only hydras misvote in lylo but there's the factor of one player not paying attention because he has someone else I mentioned in my first post and that I believe is quite true (yes, in the end, I'm more confident than not that I'll be right about hydra created weaknesses for a pro-town game).

I hope HC comes and actually defends himself (Considering so far dessew and rail are trying to provide a defense for him).

@Mod: I'll be V/LA[/u] for the weekend probably till sunday night.

@notscience: about the few townreads. I'll be honest, this game hasn't featured a lot of actual discussions that I could derive town people from.

My initial reads of trailracer and SOS still stand although a comment from someone made me wary of SOS (saying that he usually looks like this) so I won't immediately assume anything. trailracer is consistent enough with his thick-headed interpretations of what I do (While also focusing on other parts of the game) to look like probable town. Wrong, but town. That doesn't mean that I won't push him for answers (I don't recall who said I was pushing him and voting HC and scumhunting FuDuzn and others as if it were scummy but it's absurd, I can very well scumhunt many people at the same time) to find out if he really believes what he is saying or if there's some malice behind it, I believe the former.

Mario and DB's posts I liked but it's still too early, I read people better with interactions.

I'll develop on some more things when I come back, this post was written in interrupted rushes and, even then, has taken too much precious time. Later.

[Humble Poirot]

@all:

first off, sorry for the awful grammar in my last rushed posts. If you need clarifications, ask.

Second, everything can be explained and rationalized to "newb player", "not good enough", etc. It would be cool though, if people refrained from giving this "be anti-town" card out so often. You're not encouraging pro-town play. Specially if you give it even before said player tries to defend himself.

Third, what's up with people getting pressured and dropping off the face of the earth?

@sos:

your "FuDuzn" flailing theory doesn't seem to be working. Is rebel scummier than FuDuzn or are you looking for people you can actually pressure until the latter comes back?

@artemiskitty:

Besides calling some people town and voting SOS, I don't see that much from you. How confident are you SOS is scum? Why aren't you either pushing him or trying to convince others to vote him?

notes:

- saki is lurking and getting excused because of apparently scummy meta.
- brian needs to be active and clarify his thoughts and reads.
- I know mario is busy on weekends so I'm eager to see what his reads are on other players besides HC when he is able to post.

@rail:

i don't think it's a mistake. i don't think it's anything at all. if you read the first part of the post in which you claim hc is lying, you can see what hc was actually saying (i.e. that there was no real reason to choose fegelein over others). the second sentence is a, "well, now i don't have a reason to attack mario over fegelein" sort of thing.

I see where you're coming from and I read that part but the distilled information of that sentence is:
- I could've called out many people.
- But you're active
- he hasn't been.
- he was worth my vote.

The problem is that it's an evasive way to not address mario's 126 which is quite accurate.

The second part is specially scummy and what made me scream lie at the top of my lungs but you might understand it better if you see the context of 126 and how HC answered. Unfortunately, he has asked for a replacement which terribly annoys me since it since, in MS now, every player who gets slightly pressured or gets into a fight seems to drop out.

my point about you calling it a lie and not thinking it could be a mistake is that you are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, and you're not trying to understand the motivation that you claim you are. *shrug*

I understand but you don't seem to give me the same benefit of the doubt you give him. Even if I am wrong about what I consider a lie (which is going to be really hard to see until he flips, since he never came back to reply to me).

- Stop the "two years ago" comment as if it meant anything. It's my second to last completed game in MS, I'm not ignoring recent history since I have none:

elite mafia : May 2012.
That game: June 2011.

[Humble Poirot]

your interpretation of the "big fat lie" isn't enough of a reason for me (and apparently others) to want to vote hc. and given that hc is being replaced, what are you going to do about it?

I don't know. At the very least, I'd like to see what the replacement does and what does he think about the game and his former self.

I'm also going to keep and eye on FuDuzn and saki but if they are not here, it's kind of hard to pressure them.

Meanwhile, I'll keep scumhunting.

I believe I've more or less covered my reads but here's a bullet point:
probable scum:
HC
FuDuzn

wary of:
saki
artemiskitty.
brian skies.

probable town:
Rail Tracer

lean town (mostly because they play pro-town, in any even, I'm not lynching these guys)
mario
DB
SOS

Unsure:
Rebel
Dessew
NS

I guess I'll have to focus a bit more and try to read those who I'm unsure about but I also don't want to just focus on active players of late and let a scum lurker coast the game.

[Humble Poirot]

@SOS, maybe you missed it but there's a question for you in 286

[Humble Poirot]

lynch all hydrae

IM TOTALLY FUCKING SERIOUS ABOUT THIS NOTSCIENCE
LIKE 100% FUCKING SERIOUS
I'LL QUIT MAFIA IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN
(/obvious sarcasm)

@saki:

interesting that you felt had to clarify that something was a joke when people started calling you scum for your play.

What are your reads?

@rebel:

Do you realize you barely have any scumreads? You're either defending someone or finding someone to be town. In fact, your list doesn't even call anyone scum, you seem to put mario/saki/DB in some sort POE so I'll vote one of them. It's quite odd, if you ask me. Someone intent on scumhunting will usually have at least, one person he can call scummy.

[Humble Poirot]

artemiskitty needs a prod.
we really need a replacement for HC.
FuDuzn needs to return and defend himself.
Saki needs to start playing the game.

@Mario

: You realize you just came to defend yourself (inactivity) and called the worst player town for no reason (and uselessly added that you were not 100% convinced)?

@Rebel

: You still didn't call anyone explicitly scum and the fact that you say leftovers still leads to the conclusion that you have no scumreads but townreads and just use POE.

Vote saki

. How about everyone who is not doing anything useful with their vote, wagons her so that she actually feels the pressure to play? I'm well aware she can. She is purposely NOT doing so. At this point, it's not simply anti-town, it's scummy.

This doesn't mean I've dropped my case on HC but this game is stalling.

Unofficial votecount:

FuDuzn (2): HC, Dessew,
DB (2): Rebel, RT
saki (1): HP
HC (1): Mario
RT (1): FuDuzn
HP (1): Brian
NS (1): Saki
SOS (1): artemiskitty
Dessew (1): NS
Brian (1): DB

Not voting (1): SOS

Ugly votecount, if you ask me.

8 days in and we hadn't have a decent wagon . Why? Because the 2 players who were wagoned "suddenly" dropped out of the face of the earth. One is allegedly busy (what's the limit, though) and the other simply asked for a replacement.

[Humble Poirot]

All I need to know that in games like "Mini 1480: Uncreative Paradise", when you're pressured you talk and that your lurking, joking around and not playing is not just meta and can perfectly be a scum-tactic.

Who do you think is scum? It's the second time that you've appeared after people called you scummy. If you honestly "didn't care that much", this wouldn't happen. You're here but you're hiding.

After looking over several isos in games where you are already dead, I can honestly say I hope to never encounter you again. It almost seems like you're trying to ruin as many games as you can by wasting a player slot.

Don't underestimate. I see more than you think.

[Humble Poirot]

No. That's one thing I find useful and acknowledge.

The problem here is that, if you have no actual scumreads after a while, it can easily mean you're not actually trying to scumhunt (and calling people town is less likely to get you into trouble).

[Humble Poirot]

Mod

: noted. I'll avoid mentions of ongoing games (I thought the player being no longer in them and just focusing on his ISO was OK).

The point, anyway, is that Saki can play and post and is refusing to do so and I'll just leave it at that. (as prev-edit: by Rebel says).

@SOS:

in more general terms, I take that what you're saying is something like: "you might scumhunt and still end without reading anyone as scum (regardless of the 8 days)"?

@Dessew:

really? I've addressed that. It was a reply to my own questioning and I replied as well. I mean, I welcome the discussion but... this is redundant (unless you develop in your own words why my own developed thoughts are right/wrong/whatever...

@Rebel:

I suppose you're implying that you (both?) agree on him to be scum? (Given the pre-vote). Against my better judgment, I'll indulge you in a bit of hydra-head differentiation:
When did Stubbs found him?
Who wrote 303?
Could you/him/both (This is confusing) have written DB as scum earlier than 308?

[Humble Poirot]

@artemiskitty:

1) Why is NS "backpeddaling" in 204?

am still wary on HP - very much so.

2) why?

that there was quite a bit of subtle fosing on a number of players.
not a bad tactic as scum, because it leaves your vote open to place wherever, when you see others (town) moving in a direction.

so any interaction I have with other players is just laying grounds for a future excuse to vote them? You realize that, with that mindset, anyone who doesn't tunnel vision on one or two players is scum "leaving their options open"...? What about RT, who has also interacted with many players (although he usually does it over several posts, instead of one).

3) Why is brian town?

4) why is mario town?

@rebel:

I'm confused by your answer. You've given me an extremely specific time which coincides with 252 (SOS post with no relation). is this a joke? I wanted to know, in general terms, when stubbs had decided DB was scum and if that was consistent with the list you (head) posted. Considering you didn't state DB in a separate category beforehand.

That said, I'll just wait for the case itsel.

@brian:

What concerns me about the don't have scumreads attitude is that saying someone is town is easy and risk free. It's diplomatically convinient even and, doesn't necessarily commit you as scum, since "new damning evidence" can always be found (or fabricated).

Even more so, you can't (at least not with many players), push a lynch saying, you're in the pool of "remaining players" so you probably are scum. Specially when there's lots of players in that pool and, even if there weren't, if you don't provide good cases for the town pool players to actually BE town.

As for your DB vote, do you realize you seem to have a pattern where you just follow the current trend? Is the DB vote real? Why do you think he is scum ("falling on my reads" is too vague) and how confident are you about it?

Notes:

Many times, in this game, when I question something or someone; I get a bunch of people defending the target and criticizing because they don't agree, either with my questioning, with the question per se, or with having such an opinion (Which I might not have, but might still ask about it because interacting is how you get to read people).

Unless you're willing to display scumhunting skills, push a for a lynch, accomplish it and actually lynch scum... Get off my lawn. If you want to portray me as scum for it, you're welcome to do so, but provide arguments.

As far as I'm concerned this is flail-mild-townsville.

[Humble Poirot]

@artemiskitty:

whenever you can,, I've asked you some stuff. I'd appreciate answers.

@natirasha:

who's mala? (can I shorten you to nati?)

HumblePoirot: Holy shit town and a half, I think he's actually got, ffery. Step it up!

what does this mean and what is it referencing?

I appreciate the replacement and activity but you remind me of someone who crashes into a party acting like everyone knows them and not stopping to explain what or who the hell are they talking about. using post tags for some of the things you reference would be immensely helpful.

@Mogamma:

You want something to analyze? You're probably scum and I caught the person you replaced (see 163).

@brian:

Regarding the last part, this isn't what I said and you know it.

I didn't suggest that. The word

you

in that context is not talking about particulars, but as a player.

The trend following is just my perception of you from the get go and it is in line with SOS calling you agreeable. Easily swayed or whatever.

- You like what I say.
- You agree with something RTs says.
- You agree with SOS
- when prodded about it, you add information "attacking me" that you previously hadn't added and agree with
RT once more to later vote me.
- stuff (setup arguing & more )
- defending against DB
- 214 you tell us to stop fighting when I'm quite sure others like dessew had done so first and, in any case, you were voting me...

I understand there may be reasons for this but the general overview is still one of agreement/following.

in 390, after having others as leaning scum (and not DB), you suddenly come at him (when there's a starting inertia in that direction).

My last two votes have been on players I've been suspicious of and people I felt were strong candidates to be scum.

One of your last two votes was me and it was done very early on and you never seemed to be very sure about that vote, anyway.

I owe myself an iso on DB since I recall mostly agreeing with what he said and only recall disliking the use of an argument to call brian scummy but doing so himself.

@DB:

I'll read you later but, I missed an answer for this:

I'm puzzled. You attack brian saying my analysis was spot on and yet you too said (in 152, the very same post you attacked brian):

if you hate hydras then these things kinda don't need to be said anymore, its pretty obvious.

What gives?

[Humble Poirot]

...

I linked you to the

exact

post where I said it.

There's more in 171, 215 and 286

You can also ISO me and use the search function of your browser (Ctrl-F, probably):


Look for things like HC and lie. This feature is very useful and it allows for up to 3 users (press the [+] sign to add more).

[Humble Poirot]

fun fact, It can be used with more three players just by adding &user_select[]=XXXX&user_sort=Go to the last place (XXXX being the user ID, eg: mine 12137)

[Humble Poirot]

This post covers until #439. I'll now read the rest.

@mogamma:

I have answered your question and all the questions you're asking me in 434 I've already developed about (in the links I very dutifully provided you).

It's your turn to make an effort and read. Once you've done so, you can quote me or ask me to rephrase and we can argue (even though my posts are long, the sections where I talk about a specific subject or player are not, you can quickly read what I linked to get the answers).

you can't talk about things and admit you haven't read the game in the same post.

Anyway, your definition of tunneling seems to be different than mine. Tunneling, imho, is focusing ONLY on one player and RT hasn't done that. He is agressive and pursued me regarding many things (and I questioned him back) but he seemed earnest in what he considered to be voteworthy, he actually addressed my responses and later has been consistent in his playstyle in general (voting dessew after me, for example).

Leaving his vote on me and attacking me even though many other players seemed to either have dropped the "hydra topic" or viewed as me town I consider closer to a town player than a scum one. Scum might want to blend in the crowd and have less disagreements, they might stop pushing for something if the general consensus is different (see my concerns regarding "brian skies" in 430).

Also... What's up with the mario vote?
You're not going to get quick reactions from an RVS like vote from a player who isn't known for his activity.

@nati:

I understand. Mafia from phones is insanely hard which is why I don't even try.

As for addressing heads, I've gotten used to it (after much stubbs and nacho mentions) and I checked to see which one was SOS as well to understand you but since AK's heads were private... I didn't make the association. What I'm trying to say is, I'm cool with naming the heads if it's relevant.

[Humble Poirot]

btw,

@Mod:

the deadline has been puzzling me, it currently says:

Deadline for Day One falls on: 9/30/13 which is 10 days [...]

Shouldn't that be on the 23rd?

[Humble Poirot]

Busy weekend. I'll be here tomorrow.

Mario has warranted a prod for a while now.

@Mogamma: quickly skimming I can see you completely avoided #448

Why is 126 filled by scum?

Later.

[Humble Poirot]

I haven't really been here unfortunately. Rough couple of days... Without having reread DB and written about some other things I might've not addressed I'm with RT in the concern of DB's vote.

He apparently doesn't try to defend himself further or discuss, just vote without reason. he doesn't seem to be exasperated or tired, he doesn't seem to be displaying any emotion and the lack of content doesn't seem consistent with his apparent ability to post at least a decent wall.

I'd vote him right now but I'm barely here so I'll just issue the warning, that if he sees this, he should step up and produce something because L-1 is really close.

The new guys should've given new breath to the town but they seem more absent than the old guys... Anyway, bear with me for at least one more day. I'll try to read and post in a decent fashion tomorrow.

HP

[Humble Poirot]

Guys. I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to need a replacement (I've never had). Hope you have a good game.

[Humble Poirot]

Good game, town! Again, sorry for my forced replacement.

I'm glad Ceph was up to the task and used the role appropriately (Crumbing).

I'm even more glad that RT went after Saki/Nati. I liked how SoS/Rebel played and yet, If I mod a game, I'd still ban hydras (Having people name heads and confusing things all around is annoying). RT doesn't count since he played on his own and I didn't like AK. I'm explaining this just in case anyone has forgotten how this game started. There's a slight crumb in that first post as well, so I couldn't just not say anything.

RT played a great game all around scumhunting and being open to update his positions.

I didn't read things properly since I left so I can't accurately comment on things but ProHawk left me with a great impression.

prev-edit:
@zMuffinMan: heh, I now see saki said who your head was but I really never registered it until now. Thanks for inspecting Saki. The way she acted, while trying to hide behind that pathetic scummy meta, had what I considered fundamental red flags. It's one thing to be careless and another to FAKE carelessness. There were a couple of things that suggested the latter like 321.

Brian was hard to read for most since he did questionable things but also effectively played the newbie card and also managed to display signs of taking effort (The whole thing about reading my modded game seemed to convince quite a number of people).

I was wrong about HC/FuzzDunn but their and mine replacement means we'll never know how it would've gone down.

It's worth noting that, not only did the town PRs do a good job but scum, on average, did a regular job during the day and an awful job during the night. I thought one of RT, Rebel or me would get shot night 1 and I was quite preoccupied that I wouldn't make it through to use my power. Having been replaced by ceph might have helped. We'll have to ask scum.

There's an interesting dead QT out there. I'll let the mod post it though.

[Humble Poirot]

oh, it was quite funny when RT had to correct people that Ceph was my replacement and not HC's

[Humble Poirot]

Good point. Specially because the early wagons and suspects were the first to require replacements. I guess it didn't bother because, since I was dead, I never needed to check again. I mean, I'm just realizing ProHawk replaced Mogamma/HC.

My dream is an MS game without replacements or flailing (Except, of course, the odd emergency that might arise). Having more replacements than original players is absurd but I'm seeing it all too often, in games of late.

[Humble Poirot]

mmm... I hope reading the qt makes people understand they shouldn't tolerate scummy behaviour as meta because it's absolutely exploited. And even if you do tolerate it to a certain extent, that doesn't mean you can't push those uncooperative players into being telling in one way or another.

@SOS & related to @Saki:
SOS excusing saki for DOING NOTHING (retracting a fake claim) is absurd. We don't need to reward that kind of playstyle. "Playing more conservatively" means town? Why? Why can't he be scum who sees he's getting lynched to fast for joking around?

There's more in my ISO.

Saki got me replaced to save himself and might actually hurt his team in by allowing ceph to replace in, survive and expose brian.

If only nati had stuck to killing RT (of course, there's always the possibility of a protection of a pro-town player, though).

"Ceph is a PR" conclusion had me laughing. When ceph claimed, I was somewhat worried that he had made his role (Hider) obvious but it really didn't matter since he only had to crumb his target and crumb the clearance if he survived or hope town saw who was scum if he didn't.

I gotta say, I feel for NS.
t
Daytalk seems quite powerful but there's also a con to it, it seems. Self-conscious players might over-debate things instead of just reacting the way they'd do as town. That over-thinking can lead to lack of authenticity in their posts.

prev-edit:
@AK:You called a lot of people town. One scum. Gave no reasons. Were absent for a while. Seemed to slightly tarnish people without actually pursuing them. Outright "missed" some of the questions I asked (Even though I reminded you of them). Later on, I don't know how you played, exactly, since I wasn't paying that much attention but still, your playstyle seems to require others trusting you or prodding you enough for actual explanations.