Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Titus]

Hi y'all. I'll be reading and catching up in a little while. Please tell me if there's anything you think I should focus on.

[Titus]

Ok I've read the game. I like my slot's vote on Rail Tracer right now. His hostility towards answering questions about hydrae drew my attention. That to me screams scum and that he has one of the hydras as his buddy and that his stance will evolve as to how hydras should be treated as the game (and his hydra buddy) progress throughout the game.

HP screams town as fuck to me. I'm tempted to throw mud here or make a "too town" argument for the purpose of helping that slot survive.

Natirasha, that was either weird scum buddying or very pro town from you regarding which Titus comes out. I'll lean town on that but don't think I didn't notice that.

Sounds of Silence, what did you think was a slip? Why?


That's what I drew from a fast initial read through.

[Titus]

Frankly, if I didn't comment on something awhile back, it did not stick out to me in the thread during my initial read.

I will reread again and go into detail on RT and DB.

SoS, I was looking at post 255. If you didn't think Rebel slipped, why did you vote for the slot?

[Titus]

I got a blind sheep. I am not liking that.

[Titus]

Ok. I looked through DB's ISO and I don't like what I see. I am willing to hammer if the need arises but the lack of another train is bothering me. Either db was obvscum and the fellow scum are distancing or not wanting to start trains OR db is having a poor town game.

Rail Tracer's opening is scummh. The refusal to answer questions will almost always irk me unless the questions are pointless and loaded. I don't know where RT stands though. He also asks for reads early on. Bleh. I will put him at a null now but it is a generous null and I will read again in the morning. For now my vote remains as no one screams scum at me.

[Titus]

I'm confused.

I can't make heads or tails of any reads in this game, no matter how much I try to reread. It's annoying.

Gun to your head. Name one town player and one scum player.

[Titus]

Ok. I looked through DB's ISO and I don't like what I see. I am willing to hammer if the need arises but the lack of another train is bothering me. Either db was obvscum and the fellow scum are distancing or not wanting to start trains OR db is having a poor town game.

Rail Tracer's opening is scummh. The refusal to answer questions will almost always irk me unless the questions are pointless and loaded. I don't know where RT stands though. He also asks for reads early on. Bleh. I will put him at a null now but it is a generous null and I will read again in the morning. For now my vote remains as no one screams scum at me.

RT has zmuffin somewhere among the heads

Also, what strikes you as pointless and loaded may not correspond all that well to what someone else considers pointless and loaded, especially someone named zmuffin.

RT is one of my stronger town reads.

I don't really care who is the head of a hydra. I try to treat all players the same unless I know how to communicate with them. Somethings off about that slot to me. I'll figure it out later if I am right but for now my vote stays.

[Titus]

I don't really care who is the head of a hydra. I try to treat all players the same unless I know how to communicate with them. Somethings off about that slot to me. I'll figure it out later if I am right but for now my vote stays.

This comment bothers me. I've been mulling it over ever since I first read it. I'm trying to see it in the context of Titus' style of play which is kind of personality-blind, but as an actual intentional strategy it seems wrongheaded in a few dozen ways.

I get the general strategy, personality independence as a bad strategy. It works for me usually. That doesn't mean I ignore history and what players know. I just try to be objective in all observations. Buddying me happens very rarely from those who play with me a lot for this reason.

I focus more on telling me what specific read is wrong and why rather than my strategy as a whole. WE can argue strategy or we can argue who is scum.

@Brian, were you saying Rebel misrepped DB?

[Titus]

@Mod: Can we have the nine hours the site was down added back onto the deadline?

[Titus]

The above post appears to be a joke.

Will post something of substance later tonight.

[Titus]

You're dead, your vote does not count.

omg... i cannot believe you modkilled him for something like th-

The above post appears to be a joke.

oh, now i see what's going on.

jeez, had me fooled for a moment.

That is exactly why I posted the post above. I actually thought RT was dead a moment too. Given RT's reaction mirrored mine, I'd likely suspect he's town. He could have faked this (unlikely) but for now I'll move RT into nulltown.


That post was not fluff. I said more substantive content later but I intended that post to be helpful.

[Titus]

SoS, I've had my concerns just because of the lack of a counterwagon but I don't have any problems with those voting DB. His reaction to my suggestion RT might be scum because of my gut feeling immediately caused a vote. Given we haven't played together, he shouldn't be sheeping my gut. DB also hasn't put up much of a defense himself. There's enough there to warrant hammering

back up intent to hammer

, I just was concerned because it was too easy.

I haven't played a lot with Fu. Usually I end up replacing into games he was in and left. I'll give you my playstyle in a nutshell. Look at the facts. See what is good and see what isn't. If I see something as off, I say something, even if I'm not sure what's causing me to feel that way. If I cannot get proof or disproof of what I'm feeling, I push it. I was just saying that RT felt off. Why are you supposing that DB and I this overarching plan? This makes me wonder whether you know that DB might flip scum and you're positioning my lynch in the event DB does flip scum.

Mario, you're willing to hammer a slot you haven't read and aren't sure is scummy? What the fuck?

[Titus]

NS, 1) I have not been fluffy. 2) My play has been the opposite of Amished. Fu voted rt. I liked the vote there. 3) I am not ignoring half the players.

I am down for an ns train. I still will hammer db if needed but I like ns scum too.

[Titus]

Dessew, your reasoning suggests you are starting from a premise, Titus is scum and working from there. It is normal for reads to change over time.

Ak's read depends on if ns is scum. If db flips town and ns flips scum, that slot will be near conftown.

VOTE: notscience

Will hammer db if needed when I go to bed. NS needs rope though.

[Titus]

Her last post looked very much like "ugh I really really don't want to lynch him so I'll just sit my vote here"

eh, considering she said she'd hammer DB later, i don't really see this.

that said, i don't really understand the vote, since it's not like people are just gonna go, "oh fuck, yeah, totally see the light, let's disband the DB wagon!"

I am a stubborn bitch. I will pursue who I want lynched to hell or high water but lynch who I feel the need to when the time comes.

[Titus]

It's now. I am pushing NS to be lynched.

I have pushed to figure out RT's alignment and further draw attention to RT, NS. Please stop with the misreps. My fingers are tired of typing that word.

[Titus]

@NS, my first substantive post and 513.

SoS, maybe some of the lurkers will vote ns. If no one votes him in an hour or so, I will resign to hammering db.

[Titus]

Yes that is me trying to figure out rt. Not to mention I have been in the game all of a day or two ns. Your argument is looking more like a strawman.

[Titus]

SoS, NS is "strawmanning" his allegation that I am not scumhunting. I point out where I was. He laughs it off. He's expecting something much deeper and inconsistent with gameplay on day one, especially from someone who just replaced in, or he's totally just rejecting anything I respond to his questions.

[Titus]

I'll take your word on those games. The biggest thing is all of those are nine player games. This has a lot more players to read, dynamics to interpret and posts to analyze. I'm thinking NS won't be satisified unless I put a huge wall with all the reasons that RT was scum. It's too early for that. No one has the content level for that, because it is day 1. I've just now gotten to the point where I have a major suspect, NS and I can push that tomorrow, because let's face it I'm not getting an NS lynch.

Again, all of your newbie games were very long with a lot of time and posts to figure things out. I'm not really having either so the comparison is apples to oranges, completely.

[Titus]

That's the point it's you. On Day 1, I find it impossible to be certain who is scum unless someone slips or fabricates a case out of thin air (like ns is doing). NS's case is that I'm not scumhunting is total bullshit. I don't have to be confident my suspects are scum in order to scumhunt. Day 1 to me is about laying the ground work, seeing who does what, and observing behavior. Generally, it is not ZOMG this person is so scum and I am so sure of it.

[Titus]

Hammering in an hour and a half as I have a very full schedule tomorrow. Get your questions in now.

[Titus]

VOTE: Daniel Bryan

[Titus]

i highly doubt dessew was perceived as a threat because of his suspicions. more likely PR hunting or something.

anyway, my pool of suspects today is {mario, mogamma, natirasha}. outside chance at titus and maaaaaaybe ns if someone can convince me, but these three i feel are most likely scum.

general question for anyone to answer: where's the scum on this wagon?

Daniel Bryan (7): Rebel Without a Pulse, Rail Tracer. Brian Skies, Sound of Silence, Natirasha, Dessew, Titus (LYNCH)

I can say though this post pinged a lot.

So you want people to answer this without answering it yourself. Seems like you are trying to see what people say in order to use that in the future for your benefit.

Your top three scum suspects are not

even

on this wagon so why are you asking others to answer it when you barely believe it yourself? You only stated Titus with hesitation, I might add.

Then you drill our slot to answer it after others ignored it.

I really like this post. I minimally read the opening of Day 2 but this post stood out. I usually suspect those who push questions that they don't answer.

Plus, I am surprised at the allegations of my coasting an being scum. My play has allowed for a lo of content, really at the end of day 1. The sudden switch by people suggests that NS really was scum and I am being setup. SoS's FoS is the only one that seems genuine.

VOTE: notscience

[Titus]

This should be alarming. I read this and no less than three people have my slot as PoE scum. It is too damn early for PoE scum as we don't even have a flip. Is hat the best people do? Use your brains. That's a scum pushed train. Only scum have enough information to do a PoE right now.

As for ns, his slot is obvscum to me. I really don't understand how anyone reads him as town. His accusations at the end of the day were shit about not scumhunting despite attempting to get as much inormation as I could.

Cephir, you have a section on 777 regarding me and Natirasha. I didn't understand that point. You also have me as PoE scum but most of the things you hav from my slot suggest town.

Rail Tracer, why are you pressing so much on read fishing. I don't like that.

I like AK and ProHawk as town(not sure who he replaced but his posts seem town). I can see BS as scum with RT. I am near certain NS is scum. SoS is an uncomfortable null read. I will need to figure out that slot fast.

[Titus]

Wow. NS that "case" has a shit ton of misrepping.

1) My first post had three things that jumped at me. It was hardly an attempt to say I had sorted everyone. You purport it like I ignored the rest of the game.

2) Post 482 is not fluff. Saying I'm unsettled by something is NOT fluff. It's saying something looks OFF to me and inviting others to comment to see if they see the same thing.

3) NS again attempts to pursue that my posts are fluffy and that I'm ignoring players. Hardly.

4) You are saying there's no pressure on your slot. Yet, you feel the need to trump up a case on me.

5) Yes. I did admit I want to push my scum read tomorrow to get lynched. Somehow you argue that's scummy. I'm not setting up anything. I attempted as hard as I could to get you lynched. When I knew that wasn't happening, I gave the town information.

6) Basically, NS's theme is that I'm not scum hunting, not pushing my reads, and not doing anything. Hardly. NS is not liking where my observations lead me. His overreaction is telling. Virtually nothing he said was accurate.



@RT, I'm saying it is possible you are scum with NS. Not certain. If you were scum with NS, your defense of me doesn't make much sense. However, you might be aware of the fact I'm suspecting you together and want to defend me a bit. Comments like ns is the least likely to be scum but being unwilling to have him in your town list create this impression (post 971 for reference). Mario, there isn't enough to read on his slot. I like Natirasha as town and see no reason to push him ATM.

@Cephir, I'll break your damn rule about not being near certain and shove it straight to hell. NS is almost certainly scum. If he flips town, go ahead and shoot me. I don't like your instance on me being scum when you should have realized that I hadn't even responded to NS's "case" yet.

NS's case was largely ignored while people kept pushing things anyway. This tells me there is massive distancing going on (because the scum know I am a mislynch) and the people who think I am town merely disregarded it. NS's wall shouldn't have been disregarded. That is a mistake.

SoS, I would recommend reviewing your reads if someone has done something screwy. People generally play to their win con, especially when there is little pressure on them.

[Titus]

Why the hell would I be the last person you'd take mafia advice from? Your join date is even newer than mine, so I know that cannot be it.

I was presuming that you were a logical player taking the facts and interpreting them. Generally, if the facts don't match your reads... someone has done something screwy. Thus, a reevaluation is in order.

[Titus]

@NS, I NEVER admitted to coasting. My response was surprise that people were characterizing my posts as such. Again, misrepping. I did attempt. To do that. I was praying that lurkers would come out any lynch your slot. I replaced in at the tail end of the day. I didn't have the game figured out. You're expecting me to. That's bullshit. You want some scum reads. Try NS, RT and SoS as scum.

@SoS, are you going to do that reread or are you just going to say that I'm stupid because apparently I have fewer brains and haven't played as long. Logic is logic is logic.

@Brian, if the reaction helps your team, don't give two shits about how pretty or classy it is. Get things working first, then be classy.

[Titus]

Oh throw in a leaning scum on Cephir.

[Titus]

Rebel, you totally missed NS's formal case and my response.

NS, why the hell didn't you call out Rebel for missing your case and my response?

[Titus]

@Rail Tracer, Yeah no duty to respond. However, Town NS should be pissed about being ignored. Someone called his contributions minimal and overlooked his wall. That should have been met with outrage. Instead, NS focuses just on me rather than calling tht person out. To me, that totally suggests a scum tunnel as town still care as to who is listening and care when they are misrepped by implication.

I also see no evidence of nati scum. I see Nati reading and contributing. So he's a town read.

[Titus]

@Rt, Rebel in 973 implies that ns hadn't done much (fallen off the face of the earth). 975 ns replies something about a wagon. He never mentions his own push on me to Nacho. I reply what the fuck but in a polite way. Cephir an ns read that callout as supposing ns as town. That's bullshit. To me there has to be a scum in Rebel/ns/Cephir as the whole thing was way too awkward.

Why do you keep dismissing players you disagree eith as nonsensical? You did it first with me nd now AK.

Nothing jumps out as scummy regarding NT.

Off to work. May be on during lunch. Do not expect it.

[Titus]

NT is Natirasha.

[Titus]

You and SoS have done scummy things, illogicl statements, hostility to questions, etc. Those suggest scum but SoS is a weaker read.

[Titus]

ffery's said a lot of things I've found to be genuine (and she's reminding me of amnesiac ffery) whereas she felt more... controlled, in 527? I also like the volume of her posts, this doesn't mean anything to me most of the time, but it kinda does with ffery. Maybe it's partially a product of replacing in.

I *am* more convinced Mario is scum than Titus, as crazy as that sounds. Very much want to lynch him today.

I'm conflicted about Brian Skies. Like you alluded to, he makes town-sounding posts pretty frequently, but then he'll go and say something that makes my gut sad. I feel like if I die tonight he'll be the reason why. Since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to kill me aside from Titus. Though that might require some cooperation from an SK who may not exist

Welp.

I'm guessing he hid behind Mario/Beast. Anyone think otherwise?

Thanks for replacing in, Beast, btw.

I totally disagree. Hiders should indicate who they feel are uncertain about and hide behind them. To me this is lynch Mario, checking Brian.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Titus]

Why do you suddenly think I am town? It's not lik I have forgotten about you since yesterday.

[Titus]

Eww. Really. Why can't we talk and scumhunt for a little bit? Brian didn't even get a chance to reply.

[Titus]

VT. I absolutely disagree with Rebel's reads but Rebel will be dead soon enough if he's not lying. The end of that day made me think RT and SoS quickhammered their buddy. I cannot see why that doc heal would happen.

Notscience next.

[Titus]

Scratch that. AK was kitty. I like Kitty. I don't like NS, Rail or SoS.

[Titus]

The end of that day made me think RT and SoS quickhammered their buddy.

interesting. unless you think both of us are scum (making this game 9:4 lol), you must think at least one of us legitimately thought that any further discussion D3 was pointless.

I cannot see why that doc heal would happen.

i have a couple theories about why i may have been targeted, outside of being super obvtown.

You were hardly obvtown with the end of day 3.

I cannot see why discussion was cut short. We could have seen who defended Brian. We should have seen if Cephir was trying to get a mislynch or legitimately messed up reading.

Two players rapidly cutting a day short without discussing it makes me think one or both is likely scum. The town if any is more lkely a bullheaded my way or th highway type.

Do not dare tell me what I think.

[Titus]

I like AK because I am generally agreeing with everything AK has done so far. Someone asked me that.

[Titus]

This should be alarming. I read this and no less than three people have my slot as PoE scum. It is too damn early for PoE scum as we don't even have a flip. Is hat the best people do? Use your brains. That's a scum pushed train. Only scum have enough information to do a PoE right now.

As for ns, his slot is obvscum to me. I really don't understand how anyone reads him as town. His accusations at the end of the day were shit about not scumhunting despite attempting to get as much inormation as I could.

Cephir, you have a section on 777 regarding me and Natirasha. I didn't understand that point. You also have me as PoE scum but most of the things you hav from my slot suggest town.

Rail Tracer, why are you pressing so much on read fishing. I don't like that.

I like AK and ProHawk as town(not sure who he replaced but his posts seem town). I can see BS as scum with RT. I am near certain NS is scum. SoS is an uncomfortable null read. I will need to figure out that slot fast.

I like AK because I am generally agreeing with everything AK has done so far. Someone asked me that.

Tell me what AK has done so far. And don't take too long.

AK's reads have been spot on so far. He didn't hurry to lynch DB. He's had suspicion that NS was scum. His posts seemed well reasoned. I disagree with him thinking RT was town but he seems pretty town to me.

[Titus]

I do not recall Brian or Natirasha being a town read of AK. I don't have a problem with a Cephy scum read (wanted to verify on Day 3).

[Titus]

@Rail Tracer, those didn't stand out to me because they agreed wih them but for Brian. I see a clear thought process.

@Beast, how do you know there's only one scum left? Thete could be more. This is hardly an open setup.

VOTE: Beastcharizard

[Titus]

What inno result?

With hypo cop, I would expect gf or roleblocker. Gf means an inno is worthless.

[Titus]

Could be gf. I don't like the confidence in an open setup. Why wouldn't RT be roleblocked or killed?

Hypo cop = hypothetical cop.

Why are we supposing an encryptor? Mafia should have some cop counter.

[Titus]

I will reread because I have missed a fair amount. Shit happens. AK's associative tells are not weak. I can understand why people want to lynch her. I just feel AK is town because she was saying what I thought at the time but for BS.

[Titus]

I don't think the mafia have daytalk. I also don't think Nati has a scumbuddy who has never posted. I don't trust that post.

[Titus]

I don't believe in the "scumbuddy who never posted in daytalk" part, but I do believe the daytalk part itself, though.
It would be bit too odd topic to use for wifoming. (It's not like presence of daytalk change a lot)

Daytalk changes a lot. For instance, daytalk gives credence to my theory that the end of yesterday was a massive bus to cut short the day.

VOTE: notscience

[Titus]

You should hammer.

Now who is reading the wrong game.

[Titus]

How did you two both manage to forget you had that same discussion 100 posts ago?

[Titus]

I am paranoid the scum team is buddying. Natirasha opened up with clear buddying. His claim to clear me is a null. He wanted it to mean something. Perhaps link us if he knew he was getting lynched? I don't know. From an objectiv standpoint, I am not clear.

[Titus]

Rebel, which head made the above post and your previous post? You have already had that discussion with ns.

Beast, are you just planning to tunnel me?

[Titus]

Ugh. The interactions between NS and Rebel are unsettling. Why the hell cover what you've already asked and had answered without acknowledgment that the question was already asked?

Also, we have a odd night cop, even night hider, doctor and neighborizer. Far too much. I believe RT's claim because it goes perfectly with an even night hider which we know exists. The doctor claim makes sense. However, there is another explanation. Scum faking a doctor claim. How often is there a miller doctor? Plus GiF/SoS being a neighborizer? Why not neighborize the cop?

GiF's theory of two mafia and an SK also sucks major. Not enough kills for that. An SK likely would have killed by now.

[Titus]

I like ns as scum but I still get the feeling there won't be enough VTs.

Ahhh GuyinFreezer, why does NS insisting there's a godfather mean he's expecting you to flip town?

Maybe I'll figure this out tomorrow.

[Titus]

NS, good job here. You lost but I like you went down swinging. Death tunneling me never works to be unnoticed though.