Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Dessew]

Ahoi!
Not giving reads, yet.
VOTE: HopefullyCynical
Serious vote.

[Dessew]

Are your arguments other than guts?

[Dessew]

I missed that SoS mentioned metacheck in #31. So yes, you might be right. 2/3 of his posts contain scum content.

[Dessew]

Fu: I think your early posts are "nothing" for town. There's an RVS vote, and you ask a question that was already answered. They gave me the impression that you post only to have enough amount of posts with "content", so you won't get accused of (active) lurking.

[Dessew]

Yes, he's certainly the scummiest player now, imo.

I want HC to react to #98&99 first.

[Dessew]

Yeah, I was writing a catch-up post yesterday but I fell asleep so there's that.

Today I learned that the word I use to describe that "it's quarter to ... o'clock" doesn't even exist in my language. Thought you, Fege, would find it interesting.

[Dessew]

I want HC to react to #98&99 first.

Why does your vote need to be on him in order for him to react?

[...]would find it a little redundant if we unvoted and voted the same person.

You basically answered your question. He might react in a scummy way. I have enough time to change my vote later.

Btw, I like both Rebel's and HP's last posts (well, except that hydra-nonsense, I hope it won't be discussed any further because it leads us nowhere.)

[Dessew]

Well done, HC! However, unvote Fege, because it's stupid to vote somebody only because of inactivity.
UNVOTE: HC
We both played in Newbie 1393, along with Fu, that's why I placed my random vote (I know I said "serious vote", but come oooon) on HC. Because I thought I could get something out of his reactions. He's hasty, joking a little, concerned about the vote on him (even starting to suspect the one (me) who is voting him.) There's also the "I don't know who to vote, I don't want to harm town by voting to the wrong place." Also, there's the fact that he placed his vote on Fege with a stupid reasonong, and his last post (#133) screws up chronology, Mario had contributed to the game as much as Fege had when HC voted Fege.

VOTE: Fu
Everything has been said about him, his early posts, being too concerned about being suspected and self-defeatism.

[Dessew]

You see, the problem isn't that you're concerned but that you hardly post anything else. I mean, yeees, you called out SoS, but he isn't scummy after all according to you, and you were posting about why others suspect you and you posted about how HP could be town, ergo you're townish and you were posting about why other suspect you and you AtE'd. It seems as if you accidentally forgot to scumhunt, that's what I mean by "being too concerned". Anyway, there're a lot of ways to convice me, AtE isn't one, though.
(Almost forgot: threatening(?) with OMGUS to prove you innocence?)

[Dessew]

Are you really going to discuss hydrae?
Regarding Saki: it's his playstyle. It's cool. Or not. I'm not gonna decide it in your stead.

[Dessew]

I read HC as leaning town. We played a game together and his behaviour is rather similar now. Okay, his chronology thing isn't convincing, but I can't see any reason why one would ever fuck it up (as I know myself I will on the next two pages, let's hope I'm wrong.) 2.: I hope nobody belived that my serious vote was serious. He hadn't done anything before I voted... But my vote had to stay because I wanted him to react to a vote on him.

Brian is null. He must be very busy with arguing over hydrae and defending his point about his first three posts.

HP&RT: I'm sure there's only a difference in playstyle between the two of you. I see the points of both of yours but I don't see where this debate could lead. HP just likes to write at least two paragraphs when it comes to hydrae, and RT is basing his scumread on HP on his paragraphs about hydrae. HP feels obligated to answer these accusations and the whole thing starts again from the beginning. So one one accuses the other that he's posting exclusively hydrae (yeah, you never said that, it's not the point here), and the other one has to explain something about hydrae because he was asked about it along with the accusation. Both of you are null, btw.

Daniel's #152 seems genuine, I definitely like it.

kitty: Could you, please, elaborate your reads? And I'm genuinely curious: if you discussed your reads etc., why didn't you read, edit, design one single post instead of several put in chronological order?

Frankly, I don't see how AtE is a towntell (did I get your posts right?)

[Dessew]

@Dessew: Have you read my analysis of HC's lie (detailed per request in 171)?

Yes, I have. My main problem is that he screwd up the chronology. If you have just a little time to read it (writing is a completely different case) and you don't spot such a mistake, you probably take medicines or go to therapies because of this "specialness".

SoS, Mario and Daniel are leaning town. Their posts seem genuine. SoS defends his reads, but also considers changing them sometimes (for instance: #162). I can't bring up any better rerasoning than genuineness regarding the others.

[Dessew]

HP is the first one who comes into my mind. His #163 is off as I reread it. I mean the parts about Fu. He lists a couple of things saying that he's scummy, and actually calls him scummy, but he votes HC because of that lie thing, and keeps pushing you. As if he didn't want to take a stand, only give something little everywhere. I'm gonna think a little more about it.

[Dessew]

Well since talking to Smudge and Z7 is clearly pointless since they clearly, and effectively I will admit, pushing the mislynch(I say this with confidence now since Z7 is going all in only now that he sees that HC is leaning towards voting Dessew and Z7 can just fully commit now).

HC, and I can't believe this just hit me, hasn't Smudge been pushing for you as scum most of the game? The same Smudge who has clearly been following breadcrumbs and pr tells all game just so can be prepared for this situation? You don't think he didn't have a pretty good idea you were a pr while he was trying to get you lynched?

Seems a bit strange right HC?

In the game you are talking about was no pressure on Fu, only in LyLo. But in LyLo when it came down to lynching me or the BP, he did try to use emotions.

About Mario: He's an alt if I'm right. I read that sentence as: "I got lynched earlier because of inactivity, but that's how I roll."

About kitty: Those 14 posts are much less than 14, in fact. There're only 5-10 minutes between two posts, and not because she's answering a new one. I guess she has some problems with her heads. When those problems have been solved, I'm probably going to have a non-nullread on her.

Brian: Please don't answer ns's read on you with how much you want to discuss hydrae. Just don't type the word "hydra". I would be a reveal.

[Dessew]

I responded to your reads where I thought I can say something that hasn't been said yet. Or should I have responded to your read on me? Because I don't want to. It would create only WIFOM, so it'd be pointless.

[Dessew]

(I don't recall who said I was pushing him and voting HC and scumhunting FuDuzn and others as if it were scummy but it's absurd, I can very well scumhunt many people at the same time)

That was me. I just wanted to show up something, but it actually wasn't the best way to do it.

If I pointed out why ns is wrong, then what do you see? I could only list some of my posts I think are townish and say thing about my playstyle. It's either self-meta (with one completed game atm, btw), or nullifying my townish posts if there are any (I haven't ISO'd myself) by WIFOM because you cannot know if those posts were genuine or not. The WIFOM is there if I don't do such things, too, but it wouldn't be so strong.

About HC:
Rebel: I saw him do similar things as town. Forgetting to sum up what I meant with a certain paragraph is an old mistake of mine.
HC: not cheking so obviously is something that scum would try to avoid, imo. If he had admitted that he didn't really know, that would probavly highly increase his towncred, as I see. So as scum that would have been the optimal answer.

[Dessew]

I don't find his catch-up post scummy, it has some good points, and I can see the reasons why he reads me scum. It's true that I have only 1 scumread so far, the rest is null and town, and if Fu's posts are really so goddamn town, I haven't done much in this game. The other part of his reasoning is my meta, which is just fine, I guess. I don't understand his #234, though, I'd like to read more about it.

[Dessew]

kitty has effectively only 6 posts, they are just divided. And Mario told us that his schedule might be inconvinient for us. Although yes, it's time for them to do something funny.

About RT&HP: Both of them kept posting about other stuff, not only about one another. I still think that this debate doesn't lead us anywhere.

#239&241 is noted.

[Dessew]

I'm not sure who "they" are.

kitty is null, Mario is leaning town, the latter is basically guts. Both of them are quite inactive.

HP is null, he's hard to read. As I thought a little more, RT is town. His earlier posts showed a some kind of hostile attitude, but he later dropped it. It showes that at least one of his heads (the one who posts here) doesn't have extraordinary acting skills, while he's still forcing it. And no scummy moves from him. Just put these two together, and you get the idea.

If you meant the posts: I noted the misrep. Not sure what to think about it, will bring it up again tomorrow.

[Dessew]

Since you're chatting so conviniently with each other, maybe you could elaborate on #234, #251 and my meta.

[Dessew]

There're other players who haven't given out a read on you, yet. I don't get what's so special about me. Your scumhunt seems genuine, there're a lot of good points in your catch-up post. And as it turned out, you cannot fully explain your case on your no. 1 scumread. That points to town. OTOH, I don't get why you are so harsh with lurky players, you find forced that Mario warned us that he's not gonna past as often as we'd want him to, and kitty got on your scumlist because she didn't present enough scumreads in her technically 6 posts. I think it may be setting up the easy lynch. That points to scum. So yeah, you're null.

[Dessew]

If you don't count the actual posts, but the times she came up to post, it's 6. It's maybe more if you consider it to be a new post every time she responds to a new post, but with that, you wouldn't even get to 9, either.

That was part of the warning, a figure of speech, IMHO.

[Dessew]

@Dessew, I wasn't referring to the warning (because I understand conflicts) I SPECIFICALLY SAID that bit. So generalizing it is a misrep. It also seems you're doing everything in your power to discredit my scumreads. Why is that?

You're being paranoid. Your scumreads are mostly lurkers, I don't agree with them.

why is daniel bryan null-town? is it just for the #152-wall? because his recent posts don't look all that town. they're commentary with no commitment.

It was for the wall. I wasn't following the thread when he was engaging with others, including you. I want to have a conversation with him soon. Failing that, I'll leave him a wall tomorrow or Tuesday.

I thought that "the other head read" excuse was made up by HP. So you (I mean the head, not the hydra) cannot say anything about his #239?

About Daniel: #239 is scummy, OTOH, I don't see why would he misrep ns. If he's scum, he doesn't really have to do anything atm.

[Dessew]

Well, it was really quick and reasonable.

[Dessew]

Well, it was really quick and reasonable.

Not sure what you mean here. What was really quick and reasonable?

Nevermind, forgot you're a hydra for a moment.

TOWN:
SoS
Rail Tracer
notscience

LEAN TOWN:
artemiskitty
Brian Skies
HopefullyCynical
Dessew
Humble Poirot


LEAN TOWN (but considerably less so):
FuDuzn
Brian Skies

LEFTOVERS:
Mario and the Diamonds
Saki
Daniel Bryan

If my assumption is right, than you're reading Mario and Daniel as (leaning) scum, aren't you?

Here are my game notes from my notepad (sorry for the weird alignment). I still need to sort HP. I've been skipping a lot of his posts because of the giant walls of text. And I want to get this out there before something huge happens and I need to change the details for a bunch of my reads.


*I don't know if the early "hydra treatment" comments from HP and me are preventing the hydras from being
as transparent as we would like them to be. So right now, I'm giving them benefit of the doubt in terms of
lurking and general lack of content. Especially since they seem hesitant to post anything without consulting
their partner.

RT

- Strong townread. A lot of his early content revolved around hydras (but not because he wanted to).
Has been actively generating content and poking around the other players. Has been looking at the big
picture. I don't see any clear scum motivation right now.

SoS

- Leaning town. General lack of scum motivation up to this point, seems malleable, and I'm getting good
vibes from this slot.

ak

- Leaning town. I'm impressed with the iso given the general lack of posts. Has only posted a few reads,
but they don't follow the general concensus, which I think is a good sign. Has mostly been pressuring
SoS, which is good considering SoS was pressuring Fu and a lot of the attention was placed elsewhere.

RWaP

- Leaning town. I've been getting good Nacho vibes for most of the early game. The slot's recent activity
makes me lean town.

NS

- Null. I liked the catch-up post, even if it was done pretty roughly. Is willing to offer
information to help get a better read. I need more content though (previous slot-holder didn't
generate anything worthwhile).

HC

- Null. Newer player. Expresses many of the concerns I had regarding hydras before this
game started. I do think it's suspicious that it was so difficult for him to grasp the benefits of
a hydra without them being told to him, but for the most part, it seems genuine. His vote on an
inactive player seems like something I would do. He seems hesitant to take his own stances without other
people's opinions. But, I'm pretty sure Cabd mentioned something about a replacement.

Fu

- Null. Hasn't done much, if anything, in helping the town develop reads but has been spending
most of his time defending himself. Although I don't like his reaction and AtE, I do find the reaction
to be pretty genuine.

DB

- Null. This read is slightly biased. He was originially higher on this list. I liked the transparency in
his catch-up post. He also seems to be pretty busy. But despite the amount of content available in the
thread, he seems fixated on very specific, surface type issues. As opposed to my point of view, I
believe he has some misconceptions about what has happened in the game (Post #239). And I don't
particularly like Post #240.

Des

- Null-scum. Post #62. What scum content? I do like his reaction to Nacho in post #114. Post #172: You
got nullreads on RT, HP, AND me from all our content? There must be a lean somewhere. Still wrapping my
head around this slot. I'm suspicious of possible piggybacking and buddying throughout this game, but
I don't know how much of that actually points to scum.

Mario

- Null-scum. I'm not liking how he only offers an opinion on HC. It seems very direct. His iso is small and
I'm not liking it as a whole. Discounting the read because he said he doesn't have a lot of time. I need
more information.

Saki

- Leaning scum. I'm not familiar with meta, but I'm not buying "fakeclaim=town." Not liking the
one-liners. Asks for V/LA on #56. Possible lurking afterwards (although I noticed townies tend to lurk
sometimes too). I need more information. More one-liners and sarcasm.

HP

- Unsorted. After re-reading post #107, I noticed that I completely missed the sincerity of his tone.
I swear I read it the whole way through the first time, but I think I tunneled and subconsciously missed
the important parts (probably due to frustration of reading through the linked game). I also like his
reaction to my analysis in #163. He seems to be having some misconceptions and I don't know if they're
intentional or not. Not liking the reasoning for his vote on HC at all. Still needs sorting because he
likes to post giant walls of text that I tend to just skip over. And I'm pretty sure there's still some
stuff in there I need to either analyze or address.

Kitty's iso isn't impressive, only a few comments with very little weight and a case-like thing on SoS.
In #62 I meant that 2/3 of his posts were "I do something but I actually don't"-like.
#172: Your activity was mostly hydradiscussion if I remember correctly. But yes, if I get stuck, it's really hard for me to develop reads.
You actually say that you skip posts from HP, although you had to sort him out. Hmm.

[Dessew]

Mario, your post was only that you think Saki is town, and that inactivity isn't a scumtell. I'm absolutely on your side regarding the latter, but the fact is that you haven't done anything yet. You have a case on HC, which I get why you can't comment on, and you call Saki town.
Brian, I was a little hesitant, but I want to answer this: why on earth would you skip a post (#320, tha part regarding HP). Honestly, it looks like a discredit-attempt.

[Dessew]

"Leftovers" = Not Town = Scum.

He does have scumreads.

[Dessew]

SoS: I don't know why it's so hard now, I simply just don't get on the same wavelength with the game (this phrase exists in English, doesn't it?)
Kitty: ns is asking people about me, but he's also posting that he thinks I'm scum quite frequently. So I don't see how those questions listed in #374 are scummy.
Brian: I don't get what outdated information you're talking about. What wasn't scummotivated? The hydra-thing?

[Dessew]

Daniel's answer is actually pretty good, I'd like to hear Rebel's response if there's any.
And the Fu-wagon is stalling right now, consider as if my vote was on him, but
UNVOTE: Fu
VOTE: Brian Skies
HP has a big role in this read. First: his #430 is on the spot (maybe his other posts are, too, I won't iso now.) Especially the Daniel-vote seems off, Rebel announced he had a case on him, and Brian joined the wagon with some stupid, made-up reason. And I also don't like that in his read on HP the hydradiscussion is overrepresented, but that's a minor issue in comparison.

[Dessew]

Rebel: I kind of belived him the 1., I didn't look it up, and it does come off bad, after all. But his answers 3, 5, 6, 9, 9, 10 were proper, and his other answers (except 1 and 2, but the latter isn't a big deal) make sense, too. But, yes, there's that fisrt one, I can't find the part in that post when he calls HP scummy, he gets "town vibes" from HP at the end of his post.

[Dessew]

Ok I've read the game. I like my slot's vote on Rail Tracer right now. His hostility towards answering questions about hydrae drew my attention. That to me screams scum and that he has one of the hydras as his buddy and that his stance will evolve as to how hydras should be treated as the game (and his hydra buddy) progress throughout the game.

I'd really like to see a detailed post about it, since we see things quite differentaly regarding RT.

[Dessew]

Rebel: I kind of belived him the 1., I didn't look it up, and it does come off bad, after all. But his answers 3, 5, 6, 9, 9, 10 were proper, and his other answers (except 1 and 2, but the latter isn't a big deal) make sense, too. But, yes, there's that fisrt one, I can't find the part in that post when he calls HP scummy, he gets "town vibes" from HP at the end of his post.

So you think it's logical he's leaning gut town on our slot, when he has only mentioned us in negative ways?

I don't know if I used the word "logical", if I did, it was poor wording, but it's not illogical. He criticized your scumhunting and has a gut-townread on you. One is "technical" the other is about alignment. He still has to clarify regarding his 1. answer.

[Dessew]

Cabd, I'm voting Brian.

[Dessew]

remind me why you think brian is scum. has this read changed or been reinforced by any of his posts recently?

Daniel's answer is actually pretty good, I'd like to hear Rebel's response if there's any.
And the Fu-wagon is stalling right now, consider as if my vote was on him, but
UNVOTE: Fu
VOTE: Brian Skies
HP has a big role in this read. First: his #430 is on the spot (maybe his other posts are, too, I won't iso now.) Especially the Daniel-vote seems off, Rebel announced he had a case on him, and Brian joined the wagon with some stupid, made-up reason. And I also don't like that in his read on HP the hydradiscussion is overrepresented, but that's a minor issue in comparison.

His posts after #438 don't really add anything for or against this case. Maybe there's the "you don't read properly" part of his answer to Daniel, which looks like a mild discredit attempt to me, but I only found it after I iso'd him.

[Dessew]

I've been busy lately, sorry. It's just a quick post.

About Brian: tbh, I don't see why him reading a completely irrelevant game is town. It's not alignment indicative, imo. Also, my problem isn't that he's going with the flow, the problem is that he didn't say he was going with it, actually, he brought up other reasons. He seems to try to look independent, and I cannot explain it with his personality.

I didn't forget Rebel's post, I will definitely answer it.

[Dessew]

Rebel:
I didn't like the "I don't know what you're talking about" part, but I don't think that that's alignment indicative. Gut reads: I think they're fine, they don't contradict each other directly, I mean he wasn't jumping on and off wagons etc. He criticized your play, but has a townread on you. Communication of heads: bad past experience, whatev. Painting negative: you yourself approved it (ish), there could be some discussion about it, though. And his reads can change, he brought up reasons about it (the Brian-case). And it's much more safe to call people town than scum, so not having scumreads (at all) can be a valid scumread, imo.
And there was a fuck-up from my part, I didn't check if his answer was true to the first question, he did not use the word "scummy", he had HP in his town pile in that post, I think that the part that could be emphasized a little (a lot) more.

Brian: Your vote came off to me as if you wanted make it look like it had nothing to do with Rebel's case.

#578: I absolutely agree.

Daniel: what do you think of AK, Mario, Mogamma and Titus?

[Dessew]

It's not a no-go for me, his last posts ("lynch RT!") are desperate, and there's the part of Rebel's case that I approve.

Intent to hammer.

I will hammer on Monday 7 am (CEST). But before that I'd like to discuss some players. Well, I want to discuss Titus.
He plays very similarly to Fu, imo, probably because that playstyke earned a townread for Fu from a lot of players. Also, DB voted RT after Titus said that he had a scumread on RT. My theory is that (they might be scumbuddies and) DB thought it was a counterwagon attempt and Titus will come up with an actual case. He didn't know that Titus wanted to dive deeply into nullishness, so he won't post any case. But he later clinged to his RT-vote, because the connection either would be unnoticed or would be considered so obvious that Titus gets towncred. So I'm saying that if Daniel flips scum, I'm willing to lynch Titus tomorrow.

[Dessew]

Titus: I suppose that you and DB have two different plans. Also, you are slowly backtracking on your RT read in a way I don't like.
AK: we have a very good DB-lynch coming, and you unvote. Okay, then, I reput him on

L-1

, and I leave the hammer to Titus (or Mario, no comment needed.)
UNVOTE: Brian
VOTE: Daniel