Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Sound of Silence]

hi guys

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When town, I am transparent about the components of our consolidated reads because I believe it advances the town wincon. We're both strong town players. There's no reason to deprive town of our individual takes on players. This goes for any hydra I am a part of, not just SoS. You can deal with that however you please.

When scum, I do what I think advances my wincon, which may or may not involve fabrications about the fabricated componetns of fabricated consolidated reads.

This is fferyllt, btw. I won't be signing my posts.

As to the rest, I'm committed to the game and we use chat and/or QTs to confer about the game.

[Sound of Silence]

You do realize that it would be just as easy to actually answer what will become self-evident instead of vaguely leaving the answers open for interpretation when it suits you?

Correct me if I'm wrong (what I infer from you):
1) By your vote an attitude, I guess you're not OK.
2) You refuse to say whether you or others will do this (Do you fear some kind of trap?).
3) I'd assume you will be.
4) Why not answer this? Why is it pointless? Can't I be the judge of that?

Also, why not tell me this when voting for me? Don't you think reasoning for votes will help us move along faster and give us something to talk about other than scumdays and RVS votes?

Do you intend to do any actual scumhunting/townhunting this game?

[Sound of Silence]

@Sound of Silence: It should be self evident But seriously, of course. I am doing it right now. If you have any doubts about my own commitment, look at my past games. And if you want to see where I'm coming from about hydras look at the game I modded.

Link?

My wiki pages are up to date as far as completed games go, and the games which were played as a hydra are indicated. You should be able to ascertain my level of commitmnt to game when I play as a hydra.

Now, having said that, I realize you quoted my answer to rail tracer, not the first post. So it seems like there's an implication what I'm doing is NOT actually hunting. If so... then Who IS? Are YOU?

I believe I am. I'm concerned that a lot of noise about hydrae in the game will distract from focusing on the entire player list, and I see you as the source of a lot of noise about hydrae in the game.

[Sound of Silence]

the second sentence is correct.

do you have any scum/town reads so far? weak or strong, i don't care.

is there a reason you're not voting?

Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable. He's on my list to meta-check for completed MS games, but given his join date I don't expect to find any.

I don't usually vote during RVS phase. GiF, my partner, may put down an RVS vote. I prefer to just poke around, ask questions and interact until I have enough data to do some initial sorting.

Are you scum-reading Poirot?

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I have been caught in the game of trying to hard to figure out who is the hydra and figuring who is saying what, fools game I say know though.

SOS, why mention Brian as strange if you are just going to poo poo his strangness right away?

Where did I poo poo his strangeness?

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@sos,

yes

but i'm thinking my issues could be more of a playstyle/personality thing than an alignment thing

possibly.

his reaction to hydras looked over the top and fake. i understand that he linked some game with hydras that he modded and this was apparently bad for whatever reason, but it still looked fake, and i could see him using that as an excuse to berate hydras and pretend he's doing something. i also dislike the questions he asked because they serve no purpose in determining anything, and only add to my suspicion that he's trying to look like he's doing something when he's not actually doing anything

All true. I chose to indulge his questions (some of them, anyway) and see what that nets down the road.

i don't see the issue with brian skies being 'agreeable'.[/quote]

Welcome to feryland? It looked to me like he found something to agree about with every active player who has put down an opinion. I don't see him pushing interactions any further than that so far.

[Sound of Silence]

broken quote tag there in the 2nd to last line. :/

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Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable.

This is only my second game, and my first dealing with hydras. I liked HP's logic in dealing with hydras, especially since there are so many of them (almost a quarter of the player base).

But I never said I liked his questions. They're pretty useless in my opinion and I don't see how they can help us scumhunt. After browsing other games, I feel like a lot of useless pages will be produced from arguing about them.

his reaction to hydras looked over the top and fake. i understand that he linked some game with hydras that he modded and this was apparently bad for whatever reason, but it still looked fake, and i could see him using that as an excuse to berate hydras and pretend he's doing something. i also dislike the questions he asked because they serve no purpose in determining anything, and only add to my suspicion that he's trying to look like he's doing something when he's not actually doing anything

I originally thought it was for self-gratification and an attempt at a townread. However, I like the logic in this post. I'll read through that link later.

UNVOTE: artemiskitty
VOTE: Humble Poirot

Also, I may be a new player, but please don't treat me as one. I don't like crutches.

Have you played mafia elsewhere?

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I played two games of mafia at a house party a few years ago. Although, my success as mafia in the first game got me mislynched early on in the second game. So I don't really count the second game very much (I stopped caring and didn't pay attention).

I watched a few games from Koibu on twitch.tv. Although, they rely a lot on meta, so unfamiliar players like me who aren't familiar with it and don't have the time to figure it out get lost easily. This is what made me want to play Mafia online. But, I don't like to list this as experience, just pure curiosity and entertainment.

The same day I signed up for this site, I signed up for Epic Mafia. I played that for a while before my first game, but haven't played much of it since. I'd consider myself a logical player. But since Epic Mafia players tend to rely on gut checks and bullshit scumtells with an extreme lack of information, I tend to get lynched a lot (as both town and mafia; fuck WIFOM, seriously).

Other than that, this is the second game I started.

Thanks. I'll keep this in mind.

Irrelevant: So, how do you all feel knowing you have a great opportunity in shaping (warping) my play style?

Just don't pick up any bad habits from Saki and you'll do fine in future games.

[Sound of Silence]

So mean to me

<3

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Jesus Saki that it literally the worst thing.....literally, that is what I think.

And SOS, you said Brian being agreeable was weird......then said that it probably means nothing. So why bring it up?

I didn't say it probably means nothing. I said I was going to meta him, but doubted he has completed games given his join date.

He doesn't.

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Didn't like it. And generally didn't like his interpretation of my post 31, either.

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Right so poking someone a bit about the way a post was worded is obv scum tell now.

I hate early game time, no one is catching scum from a couple posts,

you aren't that good

.

Sometimes I am that good. Dunno yet if this is one of those times.

I've looked back at my post several times, and I do not see how anyone could read it as me poo pooing my own observation about Brian Skies' early agreeableness.

Break it down for me.

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Vote: Fegelein

That was fast...

It probably was. Unfortunately, I have no idea what you ever wanted to say with this and you missed some other things that happened in thread already :/

Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable. He's on my list to meta-check for completed MS games, but given his join date I don't expect to find any.

He does come off as agreeable, but I liked his approach to Saki's PGO claim. Why didn't you?

I think the PGO reaction came later and I liked that reaction. And, I was pretty much satisfied with his reaction to my agreeableness push.

I'm not liking FuDuzn atm.

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"Issac?"

"Yes, Maria mah dear?"

We got Issac and the Rail Tracer in the Cash Cab haha.

So I looked up Hydras on the wiki and I would just like to make sure, the hydra accounts are controlled by the same player right? But the randomized roles still apply to Hydra accounts, correct?

Hydra accounts are accounts shared by two or more people. The account has one role in the game. The two people share whatever role they get. Both people usually post in the game thread (signing on to the hydra account to do so).

This hydra so far has been entirely fferyllt posting.

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Saki said rail tracer is...

It's Xegarus and zMuffinMan.

No idea if that is accurate.

Liking them for town so far.

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Slow game is slow.

isaac = Brian Skies?

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You can consider my vote to be on FuDuzn if you wish.

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Rail, explain my anti town intentions in my questioning? Enlighten us all as to how they are scum and not town motivated?

It is early Day 1, people were still stuck in stupid rvs and rqs or being overly concerned about the hydra infestation in this game, I chose to question a player about something that seemed a big off to me. When they didn't answer my question in a way that satisfied me I prodded a little bit.

Again, explain anti town motivation.

I will not back down from this and will question everyone who is voting me, and those who are apparently too scared too vote me(and that isn't a scum tell?),until I get a solid explanation about this.

Oh and if your response is that this early you can't make solid reads, than you are just making my point.

/pipebomb

FuDuzn I'm still waiting for you to explain (preferably with a quote) WHERE I poo pooed my own observation about Brian Skies.

[Sound of Silence]

what is stopping you from actually voting him?

A synch with my partner.

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Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable. He's on my list to meta-check for completed MS games, but given his join date I don't expect to find any.

SOS, this.

It just struck me as a bit off that you basically answered your own question, yet felt the need to still post about it. Was a bit unnecessary and I want to find motivation behind it.

In this game it is more about the forest, not the trees.

I didn't answer my question at all. I made an observation. The concern about agreeableness remains, though it's mitigated now that I have a better sense of his prior mafia experience. Not being able to meta him for similar behaviors referencing alignment doesn't change my concern.

I'm really struggling to see how this raised a flag for you.

[Sound of Silence]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept of a hydra. Why would two people play the same account? And they both have to agree to vote someone, but they play on the same account? This is very confusing to me, and I apologize. SOS not wanting to put a vote on FuDuzn looks scummy, but if he requires the synch like he says then disregard me. Once I better understand hydras I'm going to re-read the thread.

Using SOS as an example, can only one person post on his account? Or at any point could his partner post under his name?

We will both post from this account.

It's actually kinda rare for me to put a vote down this early in a game. I'm pretty deliberate about developing reads before I vote, unless someone posts something phenomenally scummy. This game is moving quite slowly, which doesn't help as far as developing reads.

GiF and I will probably discuss this game sometime tomorrow. At that point, we might put a vote down, or we might wait depending on how good we feel about our reads.

People hydra for a lot of reasons. They may feel two heads are better than one when it comes to figuring out the game. It may be a teaching/learning arrangement. It may just be that the players have more fun playing with a partner than solo.

Once GiF and I agree on our early impressions of the game, we'll act independently if one of us isn't around to consult. At this point in the game, whether we currently have a vote down doesn't make much impact on the game state.

Why does it look scummy to not have a vote down on page 4?

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Should I think it's scummy of you not to have a vote down?

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Vote: FuDuzn

Synch achieved.

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I'm really struggling to see how this raised a flag for you.

Do you think he sensed it as a point of weakness as scum?

I think that could be what was going on. And I didn't like how many times I had to poke back before he explained what he even meant.

What do you make of his posts overall and of our exchange?

You ommited SOS. Why? What do you see in us that you don't see in him?

My sorting process usually goes something like: 1) Read someone as leaning scum, leaning town. 2) Treat them as town/scum, get into their head a bit. etc. etc. I've played enough with SoS that I usually get a strong read from the first few posts, so the "declare town" part usually isn't necessary, and ends up being detrimental when dealing with her as scum (the more uncomfortable, the better).

Not so much discomfort as hall of mirrors style self-wifom.

Stubbs' first post gave off a pretty strong townfeel.

[Sound of Silence]

And the fewer escape routes you have, the better.

I'm talking about my read of you. Figuring out whether town- or scum-nacho is more likely to make this explicit could take a while. It's bollixed up my methodology for reading you almost as much as your ambiguity-injection post-buzzword bingo did.

[Sound of Silence]

And the fewer escape routes you have, the better.

I'm talking about my read of you. Figuring out whether town- or scum-nacho is more likely to make this explicit could take a while. It's bollixed up my methodology for reading you almost as much as your ambiguity-injection post-buzzword bingo did.

I'm being more transparent than I usually would be because of hydraing with Stubbs, but I'm glad that being transparent has the unexpected side effect of knocking you even more off your game.

Thanks!

[Sound of Silence]

No! No! No!

I am not concerned with suspicion on me I am concerned with how the suspicion got there. All I have been doing is trying to get a solid reason to how questioning someone about they worded a post leads to 'oh so fu is obv scum', and the frustration has built because all I get is 'well fu has reacted strangely' and no explanae of my question.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

If I am lynched, the blood will be all over one of the sheep.

And I still don't get how you could see something in that post that would equate to my poo pooing my own concerns.

I just don't.

I'm not voting you because you questioned me. I'm voting you because your questioning made NO SENSE given what I'd actually written and I feel like you were casting about looking for something to question, not genuinely concerned about what I posted.

And now you're saying it's how I worded the post. I thought it was the purported gist.

[Sound of Silence]

His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

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His retracting the PGO claim points to town-Saki IMO.

not really, but i don't feel like arguing about this at this point.

I'm thinking this way because of a game we were both playing that completed last night. I think he's decided to play more conservatively.

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Anyone else feeling Brian scum?

I'm leaning kinda town on him.

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S.O.S - realllly not liking your stance on Fuz.
this post here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5291560
kinda seems like you're drilling it into the ground.
his question made sense to me. you did look like you were casting suspicion on brian. it was a fair question to ask, on fuz's part, if you were going to follow through with it.

speaking of brian - he seems town.

43 and 47 were my follow-up. That gave me an experience baseline to interpret his posts, and I found his later questions pretty incisive. Like I said in my reply just above yours I'm leaning town on Brian.

I've taken in your and Nacho's comments about FuDuzn and I'm thinking about it.

[Sound of Silence]

@SOS & related to @Saki:
SOS excusing saki for DOING NOTHING (retracting a fake claim) is absurd. We don't need to reward that kind of playstyle. "Playing more conservatively" means town? Why?

Why can't he be scum who sees he's getting lynched to fast for joking around?

Because he wasn't getting lynched fast if at all?

He could be scum changing his meta, but he looked like he was on his town meta earlier, and I kinda think it's his town meta he's trying to change.

Nacho, you have any thoughts about this?

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Unvote

That's quite a catch up post NS.

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Yep

Any questions for me?

HP has said a lot of stuff about hydras. What specifically did you agree with? Do you expect it to be a problem in this game?

Ignoring Saki's RVS-style vote

Ffery I have a fresh scumgame if you want it

Sure.

I have a fresh one too. Do you want it?

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Revealing your heads would help.

meh.

It's like playing with an unfamiliar player. I'm not worried about sorting who they are. You still have the trail from in-thread behavior to motivation.

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my heads have been revealed.

It's Xegarus and zMuffinMan.

though xegarus is apparently busy and hasn't had time for mafia, so it's me solo so far this game.

I wasn't sure how much weight to give that given the source and your ignoring it. :/

I've never meta'd you. I feel like your play is fairly transparent.

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I pointed that out to Stubbs! <3

Yeah, well I'm not getting town read that easily.

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NS get out of your hydra.

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I don't find his catch-up post scummy, it has some good points, and I can see the reasons why he reads me scum. It's true that I have only 1 scumread so far, the rest is null and town, and if Fu's posts are really so goddamn town, I haven't done much in this game. The other part of his reasoning is my meta, which is just fine, I guess. I don't understand his #234, though, I'd like to read more about it.

"I can see the reason why he calls me scum"

Yeaahh, Im doubting my scum read on Dessew..

That post had the opposite effect for me.

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I have some concerns about dessew. I've unvoted FuDuzn, but don't have a good comfort level with him. More on that later.

Mario's first substantive post was pretty good, but his activity level is disturbing.

There are a couple of players I am leaning town on that I would feel much better about if I could see them as strong town.

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I have some concerns about dessew.

are these concerns only recent? because prior to #243 i can't recall you mentioning him.

Yes they are, and based on (you'll hate this) meta. I metadived his completed scum game this weekend.

There are a couple of players I am leaning town on that I would feel much better about if I could see them as strong town.

i'm going to assume you have a reason for not mentioning which players. is more on this coming later, too?

More will be coming later.

[Sound of Silence]

...

Does anyone else notice Dessew hasn't commented on anything my slot has done?

Who was the "them" you were asking about.

(yes, it's noted)

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Vote Rebel

slip

Rebel

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gah

Vote Rebel

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He's expressed more interest in disrupting my game than in figuring me out.

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Hmmm. What made that voteworthy now rather than at the time of his latest post?

Slow fuse on my impulsivity.

Could I persuade you to vote Dessewscum?

I could be persuaded. Right now I want to sort Rebel.

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I have told Nacho I was townreading you, he agreed with me. What disruptions are you talking about exactly?

Stubbs.

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Later is when I've interacted more with some players.

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ok.

'coz #245 gave me the impression that you have thoughts on them (or, at the very least, on fuduzn) that you were putting together and you don't really seem to be taking much initiative engaging players.

The players I most want to engage haven't been active in the thread much this weekend.

[Sound of Silence]

But, you seem to want to engage me. And I'll be awake for another half hour or so. Aside from my firmed up reads, what do you want to know?

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Leaning Town

Brian Skies - read a two year old game and analyzed it. Asking good questions. Agreeableness is not so much a concern with everything else going on
Rail Tracer - scumhunting, agree with a lot of his posts

Null/Town

Humble Poirot
Saki - retracted PGO claim.
Danial Bryan

Null (need more data)

Mario and the Diamonds
artemiskitty (mala/mantis)
Fegelein replacement

Scum

FuDuzn
Dessew - but watching. He's sheeped the FuDuzn wagon
HopefullyCynical (gut)



REBEL

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Now.

Let's talk.

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why is daniel bryan null-town? is it just for the #152-wall? because his recent posts don't look all that town. they're commentary with no commitment.

It was for the wall. I wasn't following the thread when he was engaging with others, including you. I want to have a conversation with him soon. Failing that, I'll leave him a wall tomorrow or Tuesday.

are the null reads the ones you said you want more information on before you can call them town? what do you think of nacho's point about artemiskitty's paranoia of you? why are you null on notscience? he looks fairly town so far.

I meant to move him up to null-town. Would move him to leaning town, but I want GiF's thoughts first.

if you still think fuduzn is scum, why the unvote? i don't understand the "but watching" part of the dessew read.

Less pressure sometimes helps in improving a read when somebody gets flaily. He should have a post incoming any time now. I learned this from somebody playing this game.

why are you even voting rebel? what are you hoping to achieve with this?

It's an invitation.

and where is the more later you said you were going to do with fuduzn in #245?

I want to see that post he promised.

[Sound of Silence]

are the null reads the ones you said you want more information on before you can call them town? what do you think of nacho's point about artemiskitty's paranoia of you? why are you null on notscience? he looks fairly town so far.

I didn't reply to all of this. I blame 1 am.

The null reads are

some

of the players I want more information on.

Nacho's point may have some validity. I think it's been almost a year since I played with artemis-head, and I wasn't aware who that head was until this weekend. It raises some concerns because I've never been great at reading her. So getting that read right will be a bigger deal than I thought. :/

[Sound of Silence]

I meant to move him up to null-town. Would move him to leaning town, but I want GiF's thoughts first.

He's town.

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@Dessew, I wasn't referring to the warning (because I understand conflicts) I SPECIFICALLY SAID that bit. So generalizing it is a misrep. It also seems you're doing everything in your power to discredit my scumreads. Why is that?

You're being paranoid. Your scumreads are mostly lurkers, I don't agree with them.

why is daniel bryan null-town? is it just for the #152-wall? because his recent posts don't look all that town. they're commentary with no commitment.

It was for the wall. I wasn't following the thread when he was engaging with others, including you. I want to have a conversation with him soon. Failing that, I'll leave him a wall tomorrow or Tuesday.

I thought that "the other head read" excuse was made up by HP. So you (I mean the head, not the hydra) cannot say anything about his #239?

About Daniel: #239 is scummy, OTOH, I don't see why would he misrep ns. If he's scum, he doesn't really have to do anything atm.

This post?

Well its ironic that Rail Tracer has been accusing HP of hiding behind the hydra discussion when the attempts at scumhunting are there and the only reason HP keeps talking about hydras is because Rail Tracer keeps bringing them up. Makes sense? Also, what is iioa?

Ik Brian, whats problematic here is that you initially didnt say anything about his hydra statement until people said they didnt agree with some of it, your post agreeing to a part of it looks like it supports the whole statement.

Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.
I think he may have a point about Dessew but Im having a gut scum read on him.

I think his case on Brian Skies is flawed. Brian's first post about hydras was to agree with HP. Something to the effect of holding the hydra accountable for the views expressed by both heads. As other players picked at HP's comments, he expressed agreement with some of those points.

It was all that agreement with somewhat divergent viewpoints that led to my original comment that Brian seemed overly agreeable. Mafia is an inherently antagonistic game. As players get a better feel for who may be on their team, cooperation is possible, but page 1 is not usually when town-recognition happens among players who don't know each other really, really well, especially not mass-town-recognition. This impression is mitigated by his degree of experience with forum mafia. And he's given me a town impression in other posts since then.

The NS argument is bad. NS should have first crack at sorting it. I don't think he has yet, though I find it hard to follow NS sometimes because he usually doesn't quote or otherwise reference the post he's responding to.

[Sound of Silence]

Well, it was really quick and reasonable.

Not sure what you mean here. What was really quick and reasonable?

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Pretty sure I already responded to his point things...

To reiterate, my read on AK was due to the lack of scumreads and etc with a decent post count that just seemed off to me.

Not really an attack either, so /shrug

The misrep post is null town,

he didnt use it to push me like id expect scum

to, however he only commented on two reads which makes me wary.

I dunno. Sometimes scum drop topics more quickly than town would. Will go back and look at if/how he acknowledged/dropped this.

[Sound of Silence]

lol right. He hasn't posted since 240.

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Hate to be a pain, but I'd like to answer that question after Rebel accepts my invitation.

However, it's hard to gauge FuDuzn's flailiness when he's not posting.

[Sound of Silence]

Are you inviting me to a party??

Close.

*ties nacho to the chair*

Now I'll leave the rest to fery.

[Sound of Silence]

Nacho y do u have Brian in two places

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Which is the spot you moved Brian Skies to?

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town

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Pretty much all the discussion that in any form mentions hydrae makes me want to spin the scroll wheel at this point.

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@sos: your "FuDuzn" flailing theory doesn't seem to be working. Is rebel scummier than FuDuzn or are you looking for people you can actually pressure until the latter comes back?

Rebel's early comments to me worried me. I wanted to dismiss the comments as trolling, but wasn't willing to do that without more interaction. The Stubbs head has come off very town, but I think Nacho could coach scum-Stubbs into very townlike posts.

There's a meta trajectory going on here that I won't bore you with.

Unvote

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@Rebel: You still didn't call anyone explicitly scum and the fact that you say leftovers still leads to the conclusion that you have no scumreads but townreads and just use POE.

You say this as though town-reads plus PoE is not a useful way to approach scumhunting.

[Sound of Silence]

No. That's one thing I find useful and acknowledge.

The problem here is that, if you have no actual scumreads after a while, it can easily mean you're not actually trying to scumhunt (and calling people town is less likely to get you into trouble).

Questioning people and even dogged follow-up doesn't necessarily result in scum-reads.

@Random-Stubbs, I'd like to see your case on Brian.

@FuDuzn please say it ain't so. You didn't do a flounce-and-lurk on me, did you?

[Sound of Silence]

^^ Rebel-Stubbs.

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@SOS: in more general terms, I take that what you're saying is something like: "you might scumhunt and still end without reading anyone as scum (regardless of the 8 days)"?

It happens sometimes. It's certainly happened to me. I've gotten well through day 2 with no solid scum reads before, and wound up putting my vote on someone I wasn't townreading. But, we're arguing theory, I think.

[Sound of Silence]

Since you're chatting so conviniently with each other, maybe you could elaborate on #234, #251 and my meta.

I mostly ignored the "my meta" part of this question because of an ongoing game, and I didn't want to say that the main meta reason I didn't like your early posts was because of my going through your Newbie 1417 ISO (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5209576) after replacing in to that game. The game ended yesterday.

I felt that your questions and analysis to that point in this game weren't nearly as incisive and observant as your day 1 posts in the newbie game had been. Your scumhunting looked kinda shallow by comparison.

[Sound of Silence]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@artemiskitty:

You're a machine of calling people town without actually bothering to explain why. In fact, you don't even explain why you think people are scum either.

that's not true. i said in post 160 why i thought SOS might be scum. the only person at that point that i thought could be scum.
am just rereading, and i do think up to this point in the thread, dessew is looking a little odd. his sticky vote on HC, until he responded, while in the meantime fanning the flames on the whole 'fuz is scum' thing.
i had/have fuz is town because i think he asked a fair question of SOS, and it somehow got turned around on him. his reactions to it seemed fine to me, and kinda justified.

Your vote is pretty stale.

[Sound of Silence]

What are your thoughts about Daniel Bryan?

[Sound of Silence]

I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

[Sound of Silence]

SOS, i'm feeling pretty confident that NS is scum. do you think this is misplaced? or what are your thoughts on him? it seemed like you have him as town? can't remember exactly now

I do have NS leaning town. He's doing some style changes and I've wanted to see where that goes.

But, you picked up on some word choices that actually do ping a little. I'm going to review his posts again tonight or tomorrow.

[Sound of Silence]

I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

oh. ya

i didn't actually read his wall posts
did you?

do you agree that brian skies is town?

Yeah leaning town. I was a little surprised that Nacho had him in the tail end of his town pile.

[Sound of Silence]

when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

[Sound of Silence]

when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

mm.. i dunno. it's kind of like, an easy form of pretending to scum hunt, when you just ask ppl what they think of so and so.

you ask a lot of questions both as town and scum which is why i get wary of you

I haven't found my stride here enough to play a strong scum game. It's a lot easier to be town.

one more question - what are your thoughts on HP?

SCUMMY QUESTION!

Cautiously nullish-town. He seems to be scumreading at least one of my strong town reads, which is a small flag.

[Sound of Silence]

did you notice how in his posts, he puts a little suspicion on just about everyone. k.. not everyone, but a fair amount of people. (HP)

I have.

I also noticed that he has made a lot of hay over stuff that looks null to me - like the early hydra discusion. And "Leftovers" instead of "Null/Scum".

I've been putting off meta-ing him, but before I dismiss some of this as play style I really should.

[Sound of Silence]

SoS: I don't know why it's so hard now, I simply just don't get on the same wavelength with the game (this phrase exists in English, doesn't it?)

I seem to also have that problem with mini normal games for some reason. I don't really feel stuck into the game yet, though interacting with mantis-artemiskitty last night helped some.

The phrase does exist in English.

And I feel that your posts have gotten more on-point in recent days.

[Sound of Silence]

Hi Nati.

I thought GiF was the easier head to read.

[Sound of Silence]

He was at that moment, but I figured out I always read you as town for a reason, then I looked over Xenologue again+talked to our gracious host about meta(not this game mind you) and realized that the reason I always read you as town is because you are really transparent--the only game I've seen you be scum in(Xenologue), well, you posted twice?

I think MoS also mentioned something about you being easy to read as town, too, so there's that.

MoS?

I posted WAY more than twice, even while you were in the game.

But, my town game is pretty transparent, which makes my scum game obvious. Even when I'm being opaque, it's transparently opaque in an "Ima be opaque now" kind of way.

[Sound of Silence]

Hi folks, excited to finally play a real game on the site! I'm starting to work my way through but a simple breakdown by whoever feels like it would be awesome, too.

There are no claims (aside from a PGO claim by Nati's predecessor that was later retracted). Everyone is still in the stage of forming and refining reads. You're probably better off just reading and coming to your own conclusions. Fortunately it hasn't been a blistering game pace.

[Sound of Silence]

Tempo is my version of scumhunting, I guess. I've mentioned the term before in games before, but I don't think I've ever elucidated on what it means. I don't particularly feel like it either--mostly because I don't really know how to verbalize the explanation myself.

Sapir–Whorf hypothesis.

I'm seriously going to start a mafia discussion thread about this one day soon.

[Sound of Silence]

Its kinda weird that after you talk about other people, you suddenly vote me and explain it 27 posts later, Brian.

Nonetheless, what "superficial" thing have I commented on? Why is that scummy in itself?

Nothing to say to Rebel's case?

[Sound of Silence]

ah 426. going through that.

[Sound of Silence]

Vote Mario

That is somewhat unexpected.

Vote: Daniel Bryan

[Sound of Silence]

Again, how did you arrive here?

If you ISO me, I'm pretty sure you'll find my trajectory on Daniel Bryan.

[Sound of Silence]

Sounds of Silence, what did you think was a slip? Why?

If you ae talking about my post 255, that was a hydra slip. I posted with my main and quoted it so that the post would be in my iso.

If that's not what you are talking about, you'll have to enlighten me.

[Sound of Silence]

Because...?

[Sound of Silence]

SoS, I was looking at post 255. If you didn't think Rebel slipped, why did you vote for the slot?

I did not think Rebel had slipped. I've never seen Nacho slip as scum. Sorting him is not that easy. I decided to vote him because I wasn't getting very far in sorting him at that point.

Once again, the word "slip" in 255 refers to my posting with my main account in the previous post instead of this one. It had nothing to do with the vote itself.

[Sound of Silence]

Mario needs to die, too.

[Sound of Silence]

Scum reasons.

[Sound of Silence]

GiF and I think his posts show signs of scum apathy.

[Sound of Silence]

Town usually does not defend his apathy.
They might whine, but they don't go far as defending self from it.

[Sound of Silence]

It could happen.

What do you think of the lack of any counterwagon?

I think apathetic scum.

[Sound of Silence]

Ok. I looked through DB's ISO and I don't like what I see. I am willing to hammer if the need arises but the lack of another train is bothering me. Either db was obvscum and the fellow scum are distancing or not wanting to start trains OR db is having a poor town game.

Rail Tracer's opening is scummh. The refusal to answer questions will almost always irk me unless the questions are pointless and loaded. I don't know where RT stands though. He also asks for reads early on. Bleh. I will put him at a null now but it is a generous null and I will read again in the morning. For now my vote remains as no one screams scum at me.

RT has zmuffin somewhere among the heads

Also, what strikes you as pointless and loaded may not correspond all that well to what someone else considers pointless and loaded, especially someone named zmuffin.

RT is one of my stronger town reads.

[Sound of Silence]

In other news, I'm losing faith in Dessew. Ffery, what do you think of that?

His level of activity is a little bothersome. His vote on Brian Skies is more bothersome. The content of his posts picked up there for a while, but has faded over the last week.

[Sound of Silence]

Fery - why do you think it's scum apathy from M&tD?

GiF called it scum apathy. I kinda agree. Mario's last post was terrible, and that came after GiF's posts.

[Sound of Silence]

SOS - why is brian town to you?

He has an air of newb earnestness about him. He put forth the effort to read a 2 year old game to see what HP was griping about.

His posts strike me as coming from town motivation.

[Sound of Silence]

Mantis, what makes you think we are scum?

[Sound of Silence]

I was trying to sort him. GiF was ok with him but I wasn't sure what to make of it at first when he was trolling me in the early game day.

[Sound of Silence]

Fery - why do you think it's scum apathy from M&tD?

GiF called it scum apathy. I kinda agree. Mario's last post was terrible, and that came after GiF's posts.

^
I know I'm not posting much here but that doesn't mean all the contents come from fery.
:<

[Sound of Silence]

We have no counterwagon on me. So, why am I scum? If I was scum, shouldnt I actually be against someone put up by my scumbuddies? Is this happening? Nope? Maybe its because Im town?

apathetic scum.

[Sound of Silence]

I don't really care who is the head of a hydra. I try to treat all players the same unless I know how to communicate with them. Somethings off about that slot to me. I'll figure it out later if I am right but for now my vote stays.

This comment bothers me. I've been mulling it over ever since I first read it. I'm trying to see it in the context of Titus' style of play which is kind of personality-blind, but as an actual intentional strategy it seems wrongheaded in a few dozen ways.

[Sound of Silence]

We've got four days left. I think we're good.

[Sound of Silence]

Shit, my one-shot daykill didn't go through

Why so fluffy Titus?

This is a good observation.

[Sound of Silence]

I wish the post that triggered this awesome page were actually on this page. I'd print and frame it.

[Sound of Silence]

friendly advice because i'm a friendly guy.

i suggest someone hammers in the next (expired on 2013-09-23 19:00:00) because that sounds like a good idea.

Mogamma hasn't posted in 6 days. Hopefully they've been prodded.

Titus
Mario
Dessew
notscience

If you haven't explained why the Daniel Bryan wagon is a no-go for you please do so.

[Sound of Silence]

Dat amished. Is anyone else noticing Titus is avoiding like half the playerlist?

I'm not seeing an amished here. What are you talking about?

[Sound of Silence]

How is that an amished? She did replace into the FuDuzn slot, but I don't see the amished.

[Sound of Silence]

I see it as a response to the comment of her playing fluff-like such as her predecessor.

amished is usually something disparaging, and is often either an apology for or a denigration of the predecessor.

When someone brings the predecessor up in a comment about the replacement, I don't think the results (unless they are pretty blatant) are all that indicative.

[Sound of Silence]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

[Sound of Silence]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

sorry :/

just not that sure of Daniel Brown as being scum, despite nacho-hydra being certain.

i don't think Titus looks as bad as NS is making him out to be

What's your nacho-hydra read?

[Sound of Silence]

SOS, what's your read on NS?

I think some of the stuff he's said about Titus is valid, but he's really scraping the barrel with some of it too. The amished thing in particular.

I'm overall not liking ns atm, but tbh I will rely quite a bit on GiF's read with him.

What are your thoughts about Mario?

[Sound of Silence]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

sorry :/

just not that sure of Daniel Brown as being scum, despite nacho-hydra being certain.

i don't think Titus looks as bad as NS is making him out to be

What's your nacho-hydra read?

i like them for town.

i also like rail tracer very much for town. brian skies too.

I forgot to say. You named off the core of my townbloc here. Next level of certainty is Nati. I've had niggles about you, but your naming off the same core here puts you in the Nati level as well.

[Sound of Silence]

Dessew's nearly in that 2nd group.

[Sound of Silence]

Wait, what do your reads look like?

You disagree about dessew?

[Sound of Silence]

Her last post looked very much like "ugh I really really don't want to lynch him so I'll just sit my vote here"

eh, considering she said she'd hammer DB later, i don't really see this.

that said, i don't really understand the vote, since it's not like people are just gonna go, "oh fuck, yeah, totally see the light, let's disband the DB wagon!"

I am a stubborn bitch. I will pursue who I want lynched to hell or high water but lynch who I feel the need to when the time comes.

Where was the pursuit?

[Sound of Silence]

It's now. I am pushing NS to be lynched.

"It's begun. It's too late now. There's no going back."

[Sound of Silence]

Titus, exactly what point is ns strawmanning?

If you can't explain that, I'll consider that you're using one of the "lolexcuses."

lolexcuses being
1. OMGUS
2. PoE
3. Misrep/Strawman
4. WIFOM
5. Tonality

Without any proper follow-up/explanation.

[Sound of Silence]

No, it's the lists I got from my mafia experiences.

[Sound of Silence]

SoS, NS is "strawmanning" his allegation that I am not scumhunting. I point out where I was. He laughs it off. He's expecting something much deeper and inconsistent with gameplay on day one, especially from someone who just replaced in, or he's totally just rejecting anything I respond to his questions.

Inconsistent with day 1 play? What does that even mean?

Four day 1 replace-ins, two of which are mine. All but one were late day 1, with 4 or fewer days to nightfall. I don't remember how much time was left on the clock in the second link, but I replaced in on page 10, had 3 scumspects within a half hour of replacing, and had it narrowed down to two within a half hour of that. These were all 9 player games.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4943712 - scum lynched on day 1

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4860485 - vote down within an hour of replace-in, vote was on scum

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4878084 - longest newbie day 1 on record at the time of the game, and I don't think that record has been broken. VE was aggressively scumhunting from his second post onward.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - scum lynched on day 1

[Sound of Silence]

The last game was not a Newbie. And the first two were not super long. In one case I had 10 pages of data, and in the other case I had 15 pages of data when I replaced in. You had a similar amount of data to work with, and you had 4 additional players. Having 80 pages to read in 3-4 days (with another 20 pages being added as you get up to speed) doesn't make it easier to scumhunt. Actually, to the contrary.

And I just said that in three of those games the replace-in happened with just 3-4 days left on the clock.

That's four replacements by three different, players, two of which I won't hesitate to call strong players. You can decide for yourself what sort of player I am.

[Sound of Silence]

We were discussing notscience I believe.

[Sound of Silence]

Mario needs some attention today too.

[Sound of Silence]

@ak,
why is natirasha town? name at least one scum on the DB wagon.

who's to say there is a scum on that wagon?

i looked, if there WAS one.. i would say SOS

Is there something besides paranoia to this?

[Sound of Silence]

Leaning Town (more or less in order of read strength)

Rail Tracer - scumhunting, agree with a lot of his posts (I usually do from what I've seen)
Rebel without a Pulse - both heads look town
Brian Skies - read a two year old game and analyzed it. Asking good questions. Agreeableness is not so much a concern with everything else going on. Is there a hard edge missing?
Natirasha

Saki

- retracted PGO claim. Nati has looked pretty town but dixon hill game demonstrates I can't read him. Still, think day 1 looked usual town.
artemiskitty (mantis/mala) - paranoia about me could be a put on, but it looks pretty townish. Mantis also blatantly keeps asking lots of questions after mentioning it's part of her scum game.

Null/Town

Ranaway Humble Poirot - Poirot looked pretty town. Will probably move slot up.

Null

NotScience - the attack on Titus in the face of the prevailing wagon, the concerns about no counterwagon, both have an "informed" feel to them. Or maybe ns is getting this good? Almost want to move him to scum.

Scum

Titus

FuDuzn

- really low content. maybe not able to jump right in when replacing? still, doesn't feel quite right. (Null to fferyllt, but GiF thinks scum because lolscum)
Mario and the Diamonds
HopefullyCynical (gut)

[Sound of Silence]

hm. i think you're giving saki too much credit for the retracted pgo claim and i dunno why you think natirasha has looked town so far. which is kind of disappointing because other than that, we're mostly on the same page.

With Saki it was the timing, mostly, and had to do with things going pretty wrong at LYLO in another game he and I were playing. I had the overall impression that Saki was reining back on some aspects of his town game.

Nati usually plays a noncommittal looking day 1 from what I've seen. If the game or his role features unusual mechanics he looks more engaged right off the bat. This being a mini normal game, I wouldn't expect to see that in his day 1 play. I do caveat my read, though. I had him as town on day 1 of the Dixon Hill Hardboiled game that completed a few days ago. He was scum.

In this game, he's either posted what I was thinking about several posts as things have unfolded in more or less real time during day 1, or he's posted something I didn't think but once he said it, my reaction was "Oh yeah. That." Posting what I'm thinking is not such a great towntell (especially if the player doing it has demonstrated that they can predict how I will think about game events), but I do weigh it, especially if it's a timing thing and I haven't posted what I'm thinking yet.

I'm not sure if Nati is able to predict where my mind is likely to head in mafia. I don't think we've played enough games together for him to have that good a model of my play. On the other hand, he does say that I'm pretty transparent when I'm town.

[Sound of Silence]

why were you reading him as town in 527?

Because it looked like his town game to me? The only real off-note for me on day 1 in the Dixon Hill game was his saying that he was townreading SoS based on GiF, given the games we've played together and the fact that my town game is pretty much infamous at MS for being transparent.

At the time, we had two completed games. Both had unusual game mechanics, and to the extent he was engaged in those games, it was mostly about the mechanics. In the Xenologue game, his day 1 posts had a distant and almost self-absorbed feel outside of the game mechanics aspect of his role. I was scum in that game, but if town, I would have townread the hell out of him based on his Paradox Prime play. Paradox Prime was full of unusual roles and game mechanics, and really spotlighted the figuring things out aspect of his play style.

His play today should be pretty revealing.

What specifically did you see as scummy about his play on day 1 here?

[Sound of Silence]

Hi ProHawk.

[Sound of Silence]

I really don't care for people commenting on my playing ability, tyvm.

Now that said-

VOTE: Titus

The end of yesterday looks overinformed as hell to me while also trying to setup a lynch on me. See me yesterday for other reasons.

Actually, "informed" was exactly how I would characterize your play, especially your comments around the Daniel Bryan wagon.

[Sound of Silence]

artemiskitty (mantis/mala) - paranoia about me could be a put on, but it looks pretty townish. Mantis also blatantly keeps asking lots of questions after mentioning it's part of her scum game.

GiF - we need to talk.

This is Mala speaking, but you confused Mantis' meta read of Fery with something you think Mantis is self metaing.

This is Fery speaking, and the above words were mine. It's two separate thoughts and the read is leaning town.

pedit Mala, he has no completed games at MS so far. I checked again earlier today.

[Sound of Silence]

You're talking about lynching Brian Skies?

I'm kinda not too thrilled about that idea tbh.

GiF's strongest scum read is Titus.

[Sound of Silence]

;-;

Don't talk about Paradox Prime. It brings unwanted, sad memories back up for me.

As for Nati's play he does coast as either alignment. He coasted when he was town in my game for a bit.

IME he coasts on day 1 and becomes more proactive, though still in a sort of laid back way, on day 2.

[Sound of Silence]

;-;

Don't talk about Paradox Prime. It brings unwanted, sad memories back up for me.

As for Nati's play he does coast as either alignment. He coasted when he was town in my game for a bit.

IME he coasts on day 1 and becomes more proactive, though still in a sort of laid back way, on day 2.

Yeah, actually I can see this somewhat in my game.

HB was a different experience though because Mac was able to hide behind him and then die and then BRO tracked Mac to Nati. So we couldn't see what scum-Nati would have played like on Day 2 because he was essentially cop-investigated.

Yeah I know, and that's troubling.

But, what I saw in HB on day 1 was that he's maybe a little more accommodating of questions/requests/demands as scum than as town.

If all I have is town games, then all I can build is a town model, and look for stuff that doesn't fit that model. It's not as useful as a real scum model for comparison purposes, but it's better than nothing.

[Sound of Silence]

I am going to try to do a reset on Nati today. Somewhat reluctantly.

[Sound of Silence]

@mod: Guess I was too ambitious and thought that replacing would be an easy or at least medium difficulty thing to do, but I'm really having a hard time trying to catchup. I feel extremely sorry, but I'll have to /replace out. I can't contribute, and this is most likely hurting town, maybe someone else could be more useful. Sorry guys, enjoy the game.

This post comes across as really, really town. This is Hopefully Cynical's slot.

[Sound of Silence]

You're right, damn it. I wanted a PoE breakthrough. :/

[Sound of Silence]

thoughts on 715?

I want to give that post a fair hearing, and it's one of the reasons I am attempting a reset. I'll respond with content sometime later today.

[Sound of Silence]

ns, what are your thoughts about

- Mogamma/Prohawk
- Mario
- Nati

?

[Sound of Silence]

She didn't really say that. Also I'm pretty sure this is

ObvtownFfery

so there's really no point in poking her with sharp things.

This is a strong statement coming from the guy who in Open 527 had me in his scum pile on day 3.

[Sound of Silence]

which makes me somewhat skeptical of my Ffery townread.

Heh. But, keep in mind that you saw through me in that game when a couple of players who know my town game pretty well didn't. If I'm scum in this game I'm pretty sure you'll figure it out.

[Sound of Silence]

Maybe. I had you as a townread, but then your over-eagerness to get cleared pinged me. I forgot to mention that part in that thread. But you should have been lynched. I was just trying to prove it with logic. Apparently, logic only takes you so far sometimes. Plus, I wasn't expecting Guyett to vote Saki in my absence.

This probably better said in the postgame of that game, but although the logic of your case was going to be flawed, and the flaw would have been simple to point out, it wasn't going to change your read. You were at the point of building a case to fit what your gut was saying. And that case might or might not have convinced Guyett. I'm relieved that Bert and I didn't have to learn if you could be convincing enough.

[Sound of Silence]

Ceph inherited a slot I had as town. He seems to be doing something that I do with a few players if they happen to be in a game with me - using me as a sort of stake in the ground for judging other players' reactions. Given how cautious he was about me in the Dixon Hill game, this raises a small flag.

RT I still have as town. I feel like our impressions of the game state are diverging, though, and I'm trying to find the root causes of that divergence.

ns I'm rethinking. I'm probably going to call him town, though.

You didn't ask about him, but Prohawk is not doing much to improve my views on that slot.

[Sound of Silence]

I didn't include my read of you, Nati. It wasn't intentional. My read of you is in flux.

[Sound of Silence]

other than perhaps the nati read, what impressions do you think we're diverging on?

Maybe it comes down to differing impressions of the dessew kill. I have the impression you thought that could be a vig kill. I'm wondering if it fits better as an SK.

[Sound of Silence]

um... i explicitly said i thought it was likely a kill based on trying to snipe a PR. mostly because i can't think of any other reason he'd have been killed by anyone over other candidates.

Hmm. Maybe I was projecting/extending when I read your post and attributed some of my thought process to you. My first thought was PR hunting though I didn't see anything that yelled PR in his play. My second thought was vig. If it was a vig then I'm eventually going to yell at them about it. And my third thought was that it was a pretty safe kill for an SK who doesn't want to run into a protection or wind up shooting the same player as scum.

[Sound of Silence]

@sos,

if i were to start a wagon on nati, would you help me lynch him?

Maybe. I want to read through and think about some games where he came under pressure. I've been lazy about re-meta-ing in this game, but my number of active games is relatively low right now and I have time for some research projects.

(I know, meta, but still)

[Sound of Silence]

Yep, I knew you wouldn't like me townreading you here. But for whatever reason you feel townier to me this game. That and you actually being town in 527 despite all my paranoia causes me to feel less of it here.

I think we've been less obvtown in this game than in that one. This has been a more difficult game to get stuck into, and we've (specifically I've) had a couple of ragged re-entries.

[Sound of Silence]

@Cabd has Mario been prodded? If not, can he be?

[Sound of Silence]

hai ak. Wanna talk?

[Sound of Silence]

What are you thinking about Nati?

(I know)

[Sound of Silence]

@brian

is there a reason you're not voting titus?

Not really. I tend to not vote or move my vote when I should. I can vote her anytime, but it's not like there is a lack of discussion going on.

Also, Mantis claims she is sure titus is town and I have limited experience playing with titus.

How confident are you on your Nati-wagon? I haven't liked that slot all game. I feel like there should be some glimpse of town-Saki in his actions, but I'm not seeing anything like that this game.

What is town-Saki? i.e., what is missing in Saki's posts?

[Sound of Silence]

don't do that, please. i can honestly not think of a good reason not to give your entire thoughts on the game.

This statement to ProHawk is at huge odds with your stance about not sharing your reasons for thinking ns is town.

[Sound of Silence]

What are you thinking about Nati?

(I know)

i do think he is town.

RT - brought up some good points, about him saying that he had HP as town... but yet, still put him in the 'need to hear from pile' as opposed to his town pile.. way back when.

but i think Nat's posts come across as genuine.. and like i said, his 875 kinda sounds like defeated town.. the whole "so be it"

it is definitely helping that he's got NS as scum. because i very much think NS is scum. if i'm wrong on that... i will have to re-adjust. but another reason i have Titus as town, is his take on NS as obvscum, as well... that combined with the fact of fuz's aTe.

what are your thoughts on Nat? you've been kinda back and forth/unsure?

I fell asleep after starting a conversation with you.

I keep coming back to town every time I review Nati.

RT is a strong town read though, and I think there's something to his VCA if nothing else. And that makes me doubt my Nati read.

I'm almost as concerned about your strong notscience read because I disagree with you, too.

This is making me wonder if my reads are just screwy. Usually when my reads are screwy, I have a scum player in my town pile.

[Sound of Silence]

I started the day with Mario and HC/ProHawk in my scumpile, and ns and Titus as null-and-falling. The thing that bugged me about ns was his calling out the lack of counterwagon and asking people if they were ok with that. Maybe that was a good town call, but it could also be scum knowing the impending flip and setting up to grab a little cred. When I said that his play late day 1 looking informed, that's what I was referring to.

ns day 2 has left me with a bit more of a town impression.

Of my townreads the one I feel least confident of is Nati. I just finished a game with town-Brian. In that game he came under fire on day 1, and his reaction to pressure was quite town. I don't think his reaction here is parallel, but the irritability over re-hashing the same stuff from day 1 again and again does look kinda town to me.

[Sound of Silence]

If Prohawk is town this might freak him the fuck out but I'll say it anyway.

If Rebel agrees with you about Nati I'll probably go along.

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How are you feeling about Ceph?

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SoS, I would recommend reviewing your reads if someone has done something screwy. People generally play to their win con, especially when there is little pressure on them.

1. It's not about someone doing something screwy.

2. You're just about the last person I'd take mafia advice from even if you were mod-confirmed town.

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Why the hell would I be the last person you'd take mafia advice from? Your join date is even newer than mine, so I know that cannot be it.

because:

3. Sound of Silence (hydra of GuyInFreezer and Fferyllt) Sound of Silence (

hydra of GuyInFreezer and Fferyllt

)

I was presuming that you were a logical player taking the facts and interpreting them. Generally, if the facts don't match your reads... someone has done something screwy. Thus, a reevaluation is in order.

Thanks eversomuch for the advice.

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@SoS,

are you going to do that reread

or are you just going to say that I'm stupid because apparently I have fewer brains and haven't played as long. Logic is logic is logic.

I'm going to assume you're not reading the thread. Not thoroughly anyway.

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Ffery why the fuck can't you see that Titus is scum

GiF had her as scum last time we synched. We are overdue for another synch.

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Titus' scum reads are so laughable I have trouble seeing them as something a scum player would actually put forth.

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I actually don't understand what you are referencing here, the other part that bugs me is the posturing you are setting up when I don't flip out because of it (which I am not).

I'm referencing the Xenologue game and my-Morph's following Oil Tycoon's votes. I thought our sheeping the Sakura vote in particular struck you as scummy.

I'm kinda waiting for some indication in a game one of these days that you have figured out how my motivations translate into behaviors. If this is the game where I see that, then yay.

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Nope. Difference being you are actually using your head this game at least from what I have seen. Are you saying you will vote Nati solely based on the word of RT? If you were playing to your scum Xenologue you would already have voted for Nati while stroking RT's ego behind the scenes.

I'm saying I will support that lynch if my two strongest town reads both go there.

Behind the scenes?

And you play in so many different hydras, I actually don't think I have played in a game with just you, so despite you being overly active in your hydras it still would/should have some effect on your behaviors/actions.

With a couple of exceptions, I'm more diplomatic as a hydra than as my main. I think that's in part due to some of my hydra partners being abrasive in games. The only other difference that I personally notice in my play is being slower about stance changes due to synch frequency and (somewhat unintuitive given the slow stance changes) being more decisive because most of my partners don't dither nearly as much as I do.

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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30297

ffery, what's your take on this? saki fakeclaimed early and got wrecked. he rescinded his fakeclaim here while this game was ongoing. i haven't checked timestamps, but this game has been on the back of my mind for a while.

I read through to his lynch. Slightly different sort of situation. The fake claim came on day 2, not early day 1. But, getting wrecked that way could certainly have affected his plans here.

I remember thinking that changing his style when he did might be because of the way Xenologue ended. Your game makes a better proximate cause.

But, I think your question is whether rescinding a fake claim in this game in the light of that game makes him more likely to be scum. And my answer is I don't know.

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I think I understand what Titus is referring to with respect to me.

- I pushed back hard on her "it's hard to catch up" excuses late day 1

- I was dismissive of her "You're going to reread the thread, right?" response to my comment about thinking there could be something off in my town reads. The reason I was dismissive was because I've made a number of posts starting late last week to the effect that I have been rereading, re-isoing, re-metaing, etc. There's plenty of evidence that I've rethought in my recent posts. Probably more to come once GiF and I synch.

- I indicated I am not likely to take her advice

I didn't mention it, but there are indications in this thread that she has very little accuracy in reading post tone. My reads are to some extent based on the tone of posts because tone is the "body language" of text. I can't really take in a scumhunting style that misses or misinterprets tone. And I don't expect to have many points of parallel thought with someone who doesn't use that channel of information.

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you are never *this* concerned whether your reads are screwy,as town... cause you are normally very confident.
this is why i don't trust you.

I am not a big fish here, and this is not a small pond. My confidence came from tons of meta experience with the same players game after game after game.

I love the lack of certainty. I love the confusion. I love that I can't usually completely solve games on day 1 or 2.

It's frustrating sometimes, but it is way more interesting playing here.

If you want links to some MS games where I floundered for most of the game and town lost I'll be glad to provide them. I'll even link a couple perfect town wins, because those occasionally happen too, when town as a whole played well.

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@sos,

when do you synch? need more nati votes.

Synch is partially achieved. We're leaning toward a Nati vote, but I don't want that wagon to take off too quickly. Need more posts from several players.

[Sound of Silence]

you are never *this* concerned whether your reads are screwy,as town... cause you are normally very confident.
this is why i don't trust you.

I am not a big fish here, and this is not a small pond. My confidence came from tons of meta experience with the same players game after game after game.

I love the lack of certainty. I love the confusion. I love that I can't usually completely solve games on day 1 or 2.

It's frustrating sometimes, but it is way more interesting playing here.

it is different, for sure.

i guess my issue is, is that i have all of Nat, Brian, and Titus, as town. as well as Rebel and RT. This is why i'm getting my back up with you.. you seem just too uncertain on all of those players.

Uncertain of "all those players"?

- Rebel Town
- Rail Tracer Town
- Brian Null (fell a little since day 1)
- Nati leaning scum (because I couldn't spot him as scum on open 527, Nachol was on his scum team, and I'm willing to trust Nacho and RT's read)
- Titus null town (because I'm trusting your gut on this one)

I don't trust ALL your reads that I've disagreed with, but that one I know my biases could be playing into my read.

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ffery's said a lot of things I've found to be genuine (and she's reminding me of amnesiac ffery) whereas she felt more... controlled, in 527? I also like the volume of her posts, this doesn't mean anything to me most of the time, but it kinda does with ffery. Maybe it's partially a product of replacing in.

I *am* more convinced Mario is scum than Titus, as crazy as that sounds. Very much want to lynch him today.

I'm conflicted about Brian Skies. Like you alluded to, he makes town-sounding posts pretty frequently, but then he'll go and say something that makes my gut sad. I feel like if I die tonight he'll be the reason why. Since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to kill me aside from Titus. Though that might require some cooperation from an SK who may not exist

Welp.

I'm guessing he hid behind Mario/Beast. Anyone think otherwise?

Thanks for replacing in, Beast, btw.

[Sound of Silence]

Also, it looks like we're missing a kill.

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ffery's said a lot of things I've found to be genuine (and she's reminding me of amnesiac ffery) whereas she felt more... controlled, in 527? I also like the volume of her posts, this doesn't mean anything to me most of the time, but it kinda does with ffery. Maybe it's partially a product of replacing in.

I *am* more convinced Mario is scum than Titus, as crazy as that sounds. Very much want to lynch him today.

I'm conflicted about Brian Skies. Like you alluded to, he makes town-sounding posts pretty frequently, but then he'll go and say something that makes my gut sad.

I feel like if I die tonight he'll be the reason why

. Since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to kill me aside from Titus. Though that might require some cooperation from an SK who may not exist

Welp.

I'm guessing he hid behind Mario/Beast. Anyone think otherwise?

Thanks for replacing in, Beast, btw.

Oh wait.

What I just put in red font.

I need sleep.

So yeah, he hid behind Brian.

that was me.

Brian, you wanna claim?

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Yeah I woke up enough to read the whole post and corrected myself in 1089

Thanks, though.

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That's L-2.

Stuff to talk about before we close up shop on day 3?

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Makes sense.

VOTE: Brian Skies

not bad for your first scumgame!

Seconded!

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FTR I think the last scum is Beast.

The n1k was strange as hell, though, and GiF and I still keep wondering about an SK.

If so, then Nati's tunneling of Titus would look a little different in retrospect. And ProHawk's late but eloquent case on Nati would look different also.

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"If so" being the appearance of a 2nd kill.