Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[artemiskitty]

VOTE: Saki

Scum found, discuss.

[artemiskitty]

@Sound of Silence: It should be self evident But seriously, of course. I am doing it right now. If you have any doubts about my own commitment, look at my past games. And if you want to see where I'm coming from about hydras look at the game I modded.

Link?

My wiki pages are up to date as far as completed games go, and the games which were played as a hydra are indicated. You should be able to ascertain my level of commitmnt to game when I play as a hydra.

Now, having said that, I realize you quoted my answer to rail tracer, not the first post. So it seems like there's an implication what I'm doing is NOT actually hunting. If so... then Who IS? Are YOU?

I believe I am. I'm concerned that a lot of noise about hydrae in the game will distract from focusing on the entire player list, and I see you as the source of a lot of noise about hydrae in the game.

attack of the ffery meta monsterrrrr.

the second sentence is correct.

do you have any scum/town reads so far? weak or strong, i don't care.

is there a reason you're not voting?

Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable. He's on my list to meta-check for completed MS games, but given his join date I don't expect to find any.

I don't usually vote during RVS phase. GiF, my partner, may put down an RVS vote. I prefer to just poke around, ask questions and interact until I have enough data to do some initial sorting.

Are you scum-reading Poirot?

Eh, it's not pinging my radar as of now.

The whole RVS thing is true.

oh and forgot

Claim: PGO

._.

@Hydras:
1) Are you ok with this?
2) Do any of you think they will do this?
3) Do you consider you'll be fully committed to the game despite having a fallback guy who can carry you even if you don't pay attention?
4) Do you have a regular mean to confer with your other head?

Fine.
Not sure it depends on how we communicate and how we catch up. If we catch up together off skype we won't be doing this, but if we catch up separately it may happen, no promises.
Will be as committed as work allows me.
Yes.

[artemiskitty]

artemiskitty

if you want to be anon hide your email

Die. It's not like you and get who I am from it anyways.

[artemiskitty]

@Hp:

My experience with Fery is that she doesn't vote in RVS, but also the same with voting until she talks to her hydra partner.

So I'm currently waiting for my other head to log on Skype.

[artemiskitty]

I'm liking HP and rebel w/o a pulse for town. Slightly town reading Brian.

[artemiskitty]

Didn't like it. And generally didn't like his interpretation of my post 31, either.

in post 31 you DID say brian concerns you.

i can see how fuz might wonder if you were going to follow through with that comment, or not. doesn't seem scummy on his part (at least at this point, in reading)

[artemiskitty]

kinda wondering if you are trying to make it into something.

[artemiskitty]

@RT:

We are talking together. We should have our reads solidified after our skype chat.

[artemiskitty]

Fu: I think your early posts are "nothing" for town. There's an RVS vote, and you ask a question that was already answered. They gave me the impression that you post only to have enough amount of posts with "content", so you won't get accused of (active) lurking.

speaking of piggybacking on page 4... ^this might be an example

[artemiskitty]

Humble, or I could be town frustrated that I am being scum read for something I don't understand how it could possibly be scummy.

If you want lunch me than get it over with, I am used to micro games where losing one townie makes a big difference, losing me probably won't matter much here. And then you can all focus on actual scummy players.

^i keep reading fuzduzn's posts as towntowntown

[artemiskitty]

that post is somewhat in line with my own thinking on cynical so far (particularly the ps part). additionally i'm having a hard time believing that cynical had so much trouble figuring out what a hydra is and was playing it up a lot.

i don't think so.
i remember when i first started playing here, i was having the exact confusion. plus, no one was answering him

[artemiskitty]

No! No! No!

I am not concerned with suspicion on me I am concerned with how the suspicion got there. All I have been doing is trying to get a solid reason to how questioning someone about they worded a post leads to 'oh so fu is obv scum', and the frustration has built because all I get is 'well fu has reacted strangely' and no explanae of my question.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

If I am lynched, the blood will be all over one of the sheep.

^town

[artemiskitty]

S.O.S - realllly not liking your stance on Fuz.
this post here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5291560
kinda seems like you're drilling it into the ground.
his question made sense to me. you did look like you were casting suspicion on brian. it was a fair question to ask, on fuz's part, if you were going to follow through with it.

speaking of brian - he seems town.

[artemiskitty]

VOTE: S.O.S

[artemiskitty]

kitty: Could you, please, elaborate your reads? And I'm genuinely curious: if you discussed your reads etc., why didn't you read, edit, design one single post instead of several put in chronological order?

At least for me they are gut reads as of now. Since the "cat" is out of the bag anyways. this is a hydra of Malakittens & Mantisdreamz. Mantisdreamz posted those last few posts and it's her play style soooo. My reads were given earlier though.

[artemiskitty]

Kitty is leaning scum. It seems for someone with 14 posts they only have 1 townread and 1 scumread. It kinda looks like they're trying to buddy up to fu.

We have more than one townread and one scum read. Maybe you should read more clearly ns.

[artemiskitty]

I also want to just curl up into a ball and sleep. I got a cold so I might not post for a bit. I don't know if C will count this as a temp V/LA or whatever.

Goodnight mew.

[artemiskitty]

This is so not good. I'm sicked and totally burning out on mafia in general. Deff taking a break after all my string of games end.

I'm trying really hard to try and get some type of feels, but I'm coming up with nothing.

[artemiskitty]

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@artemiskitty:

You're a machine of calling people town without actually bothering to explain why. In fact, you don't even explain why you think people are scum either.

that's not true. i said in post 160 why i thought SOS might be scum. the only person at that point that i thought could be scum.
am just rereading, and i do think up to this point in the thread, dessew is looking a little odd. his sticky vote on HC, until he responded, while in the meantime fanning the flames on the whole 'fuz is scum' thing.
i had/have fuz is town because i think he asked a fair question of SOS, and it somehow got turned around on him. his reactions to it seemed fine to me, and kinda justified.

[artemiskitty]

Ew.

that's at HP? i'm wondering about him too. rail tracer might have a point with him.

[artemiskitty]

^i keep reading fuzduzn's posts as towntowntown

i haven't been scumreading fuduzn since about p5, but for the purposes of gauging reactions, i've been quiet about my read reversing on him. i am a sucker for ate that looks genuine. i still want his current reads. and i think he needs to tone down on the overreacting because i'm getting sick of it regardless of his alignment.

i'm a sucker for AtE as well.. it's actually how i get most of my town reads. that and just looking for posting that isn't stilted or awkward, but genuine.

VOTE: S.O.S

i'm not in agreement with some of sos's reads, and i'm not currently town reading him, but i don't see the scum in his posts.

is this just because of the way he's attacking fuduzn? what do you think of some of the other players who are currently voting fuduzn (particularly dessew and hc)?

i didn't like Dessew's post here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5290727

it makes me wonder if he was just looking for a reason to remove his vote from HC and onto Fuz - because others were starting to question him about why he was scum reading Fuz (saying that he was the scummiest player in the game), yet still voting for HC. which is when he said that thing "i want to see HC's reaction first". doesn't make that much sense, i think.
not too mention HC's post that Dessew was referring to as "good job" (post 133) wasn't really overly towny. so i don't really get Dessew's satisfaction with it.

[artemiskitty]

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@artemiskitty:

You're a machine of calling people town without actually bothering to explain why. In fact, you don't even explain why you think people are scum either.

that's not true. i said in post 160 why i thought SOS might be scum. the only person at that point that i thought could be scum.
am just rereading, and i do think up to this point in the thread, dessew is looking a little odd. his sticky vote on HC, until he responded, while in the meantime fanning the flames on the whole 'fuz is scum' thing.
i had/have fuz is town because i think he asked a fair question of SOS, and it somehow got turned around on him. his reactions to it seemed fine to me, and kinda justified.

Your vote is pretty stale.

i'm currently up to page 7! still reading on..

[artemiskitty]

btw, i liked mario's post earlier on in the thread, where he said he was likely going to tunnel on HC (not because i have a scum read on HC, but because it looked like mario genuinely feels like he caught him)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5290026

[artemiskitty]

Explain why the scumhunting isn't genuine and offer examples of people with genuine scumhunting (and, if there are, people with fake scumhunting as well).

i don't think it's genuine

because i don't see you properly analysing motivation.

as a general rule, i consider people who try to read between the lines of posts to be genuinely scum hunting.

examples in this game? nacho-hydra, sos, artemis. to some extent, isaac.

i liked mario's post on hc, too. incidentally, outside of sos i think these players are town (sos i'm thinking could be town but i have a gut nagging that's not letting me put him in my town list)

.

yes.

i remember thinking while reading this post as well, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5288063, that there was quite a bit of subtle fosing on a number of players.
not a bad tactic as scum, because it leaves your vote open to place wherever, when you see others (town) moving in a direction.

[artemiskitty]

HP is the first one who comes into my mind. His #163 is off as I reread it. I mean the parts about Fu. He lists a couple of things saying that he's scummy, and actually calls him scummy, but he votes HC because of that lie thing, and keeps pushing you. As if he didn't want to take a stand, only give something little everywhere. I'm gonna think a little more about it.

hmmm
good post

[artemiskitty]

VOTE: Dessew

HI GIF HI FFERY HI NACHO HI MALA (kitty in name obv mala)

Upon reading, I agree with HP's statement about hydrae (although admittedly I do it myself).

I'm liking Fu SoS and HP For town thus far

Fu because the selfdefeatism is something I've seen all over the place thus far coming predominately from town

SoS because they're trying to interact and get reads on people (such as nacho) that they want to get sorted out

HP because I like some of the ideas he's brought up, the whole "hydrae are harder to read tidbit" seems like a townslip. He addressed it early rather than save it for later and try to use it against someone which feels incredibly protown. Plus, I was like "omghao2readhydrae" my first game with one in it (I was town)

DB is leaning town because his wall looks really good, it has some nice points. There's also a town-vibe I'm getting, but he has only had that one post so that's why he is only in leaning atm. One pro-townpost does not a town make.

Dessew is feeling scum to me. He voteparks for a reason, says "I want to see him react" (which in and of itself kills all reactions) and then his reason- "I was reactiontesting." It also feels like he's more into calling people town and not trying to find scum.

Mario feels weird. He's not under any fire and yet "If you dont like when I post just lynch me" seems very forced. Like a forceful way of trying to say "I don't care if I die"

Kitty is leaning scum. It seems for someone with 14 posts they only have 1 townread and 1 scumread. It kinda looks like they're trying to buddy up to fu.

Saki is VERY SLIGHTLY leaning town for me because of the reaction test.

Brian is leaning scum, I don't really see any stances from him. He's discussing but not presenting any reads. Most of his stuff is based around hydrae which is weird to me. Keying in on hydrae and no reads add up weird in my head.

Rail is null for me.

Nachohydra looks town, based on vibes and points that were brought up that I agreed with upon reading.

HC is null for me as well, mainly because I misread him last game and want to see more from him to compare.

do not like.
mario, brian, rail, hp reads and (us)

[artemiskitty]

No, I've been back and forth in my head like mad.

this pings

[artemiskitty]

sorry for the posting spree..

[artemiskitty]

He seems to be doing a lot of theory and common debacles (ate being a scumtell (WHICH IT ISNT), Lynch all "liars" even though at that point it really isn't anything substantial. At best, it's an associative if either flips scum. But however, that in and of itself doesn't make him scum.

I'll be totally honest, I read him flipping shit about hydrae and the bit about Saki lying and wrote him off as town (I only skimmed his ISO because majority of his posts are walls, but am rereading them now)

Although I disagree with his points and I feel like he's blatantly wrong about things, he's being kinda persistent with what he's said which gives good vibes. (Take for example, his persistence accusation of HC lying about mario or Fu's AtE)

It's strange how he has only stated two townreads and even those were "early" townreads.

Hmmm.

ns! are you scum!
this looks like backpeddling

[artemiskitty]

Well its ironic that Rail Tracer has been accusing HP of hiding behind the hydra discussion when the attempts at scumhunting are there and the only reason HP keeps talking about hydras is because Rail Tracer keeps bringing them up. Makes sense? Also, what is iioa?

Ik Brian, whats problematic here is that you initially didnt say anything about his hydra statement until people said they didnt agree with some of it, your post agreeing to a part of it looks like it supports the whole statement.

Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.
I think he may have a point about Dessew but Im having a gut scum read on him.

me too
i'm starting to read fast at this point, so i can be caught up and vote for him already

[artemiskitty]

@artemiskitty:

Besides calling some people town and voting SOS, I don't see that much from you. How confident are you SOS is scum? Why aren't you either pushing him or trying to convince others to vote him?

not terribly confident. but SOS was the first person to get my back up a little. she's good as scum.
i haven't been pushing because i've been slacking on actually reading the thread. which is what i'm doing now.
and i'm still not confident that they are TOWN. but also, not really thinking that our vote on them, today, is in the best place.

speaking of
UNVOTE: SOS

i'm onto NS
and you as well

[artemiskitty]

somebody needs to do this.

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

[artemiskitty]

I have told Nacho I was townreading you, he agreed with me. What disruptions are you talking about exactly?

Stubbs.

yay to TR smilies!

[artemiskitty]

HP what's your opinion on Dessew thus far?

Stubbs what are you thinking of Dessew thus far?

ya, i do this as scum as well

[artemiskitty]

VOTE: notscience

rail tracer, mario, brianskies, fuzdn, and rebel seem town.

am still wary on HP - very much so. a little worried about SOS.

dessew seems much better than earlier game, kinda think he's town now.

[artemiskitty]

What are your thoughts about Daniel Bryan?

i'm not really sure yet

i agreed with his one post here
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5299070
about NS

looking at the ISO now, i don't like the brian skies vote



what are your thoughts on them?

[artemiskitty]

SOS, i'm feeling pretty confident that NS is scum. do you think this is misplaced? or what are your thoughts on him? it seemed like you have him as town? can't remember exactly now

[artemiskitty]

I didn't like the push on Brian Skies.

And I'm very curious to see Stubbs' case.

oh. ya

i didn't actually read his wall posts
did you?

do you agree that brian skies is town?

[artemiskitty]

when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

[artemiskitty]

when you do,
note how many times he asks random questions of others.. and what they think.
you know my scum game, and i do exactly that. just ask what others think.

I do that more as town than as scum. :/

I ask a lot of questions kind of tangentially though.

mm.. i dunno. it's kind of like, an easy form of pretending to scum hunt, when you just ask ppl what they think of so and so.

you ask a lot of questions both as town and scum which is why i get wary of you


one more question - what are your thoughts on HP?

[artemiskitty]

haha

[artemiskitty]

did you notice how in his posts, he puts a little suspicion on just about everyone. k.. not everyone, but a fair amount of people. (HP)

[artemiskitty]

Nati - we are a hydra so I have only had one major catch up and the rest was pretty much Mantis.

[artemiskitty]

I'm liking HP and rebel w/o a pulse for town. Slightly town reading Brian.

If someone is asking me to explain these. It's gut.

I tend to have early gut reads and then second guess them as the game progresses.

Most of the rest of the posts have been Mantis.

[artemiskitty]

Also Nati most of the posts have been Mantis. I'm really sorta quiet, I have gotten the flu and haven't posted much. I'll try to get together with Mantis and I'll do a new reread to see if anything sticks out, but don't plan on it since I'm slowly burning the hell out.

[artemiskitty]

Is anyone else bugged by the lack of another wagon? Everyone seems to be on a different page and not trying to convince people to follow them (which I admittedly am guilty of myself) and it's bugging the shit out of me.

Yes. I like you. Please be my rock this game, thank you.

Is anyone else bugged by the lack of another wagon? Everyone seems to be on a different page and not trying to convince people to follow them (which I admittedly am guilty of myself) and it's bugging the shit out of me.

This post pings me. Like, it has an illusory valid basis("Why is there no counterwagon"), but when you read into the implications, it sounds to me like he has something to gain from having DB lynched.

Nope, doesn't ping me at all, but quite the opposite actually.

[artemiskitty]

UNVOTE: notscience
VOTE: SOS

[artemiskitty]

nacho?

yes, ok.

is he at hammer soon?

[artemiskitty]

UNVOTE: SOS
VOTE: DB

[artemiskitty]

thanks NAt

[artemiskitty]

..................

Mala doesn't like this DB wagon. Only problem for me it's has a ton of my town reads currently on it.

Someone link me to the case on DB?

I don't think Dessew is town, tbf.

NS - I'm still unsure on you.

Fery - why do you think it's scum apathy from M&tD?

[artemiskitty]

mala.. it's the nacho certainty (on DB) that it what has me going with it. and rebel is town... we agreed to that

[artemiskitty]

SOS - why is brian town to you?

[artemiskitty]

Mantis, what makes you think we are scum?

i guess i just don't trust you! and i mean that in a nice way.... :p

i dunno, why were you onto nacho before?

[artemiskitty]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

[artemiskitty]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

sorry :/

just not that sure of Daniel Brown as being scum, despite nacho-hydra being certain.

i don't think Titus looks as bad as NS is making him out to be

[artemiskitty]

just realized that Titus is actually Fuzdn, who i was very securely thinking that he was town, as well.

plus, NS's first post and reads, were bad. can't really get over that

[artemiskitty]

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

sorry :/

just not that sure of Daniel Brown as being scum, despite nacho-hydra being certain.

i don't think Titus looks as bad as NS is making him out to be

What's your nacho-hydra read?

i like them for town.

i also like rail tracer very much for town. brian skies too.

[artemiskitty]

SOS, what's your read on NS?

[artemiskitty]

i think nat and mario are town.

can we lynch notscience today?

VOTE: notscience

[artemiskitty]

Mario needs some attention today too.

why?

[artemiskitty]

nat, why are you less sure of NS today? as in... i would have expected your vote on him, given what you said last day.

[artemiskitty]

We were discussing notscience I believe.

what do you think there is to discuss?

[artemiskitty]

i think nat and mario are town.

why?

can we lynch notscience today?

why?

first off, because NS seems scum. i think i already spewed forth my opinions with him.

however, i will have to look at mario again. i remember reading his first post or so, and thinking very much town. i'll look to see if anything has changed that ..

[artemiskitty]

Why do you think Mario is town? I'm null-scum on him, but he's definitely going for the Hard Lurk.

EBWOP:

Ah, yes. He didn't take the hammer, despite it sitting there...that is something that ns wouldn't do I think, oddly enough.

Rest assured, I'll place a vote on him when I'm ready. Let's see how he enters the thread today at least.

nat.. why so hesitant now? he is scum

[artemiskitty]

@ak,
why is natirasha town? name at least one scum on the DB wagon.

who's to say there is a scum on that wagon?

i looked, if there WAS one.. i would say SOS

[artemiskitty]

... do you really think the wagon was entirely town if sos is town?

that would be an amazing coincidence in a game of this size with 7 to lynch.

well what do you think????

i think .. here;s the count:
Daniel Bryan (7): Rebel Without a Pulse, Rail Tracer. Brian Skies, Sound of Silence, Natirasha, Dessew, Titus (LYNCH)
rebel, RT, Nat, Titus (who was Fuz and who i very much thought was town), are all town
dessew is dead
leaving SOS and Brian Skies
so maybe either of them? have to look at both ISO's again.
but if there was scum on the wagon, i would imagine either of the 2.
and i've mentioned my suspicions of SOS before, only because she's really pretty good as scum.
and i also can't get over her suspicion and voting of Fuz, at the beginning.
which is why i name her, first... over BS.

[artemiskitty]

@ak,
why is natirasha town? name at least one scum on the DB wagon.

also NAt is town due to this post specifically

Am I talking to Mala or Mantis? Either way I love you. I don't think the ns case will happen before deadline though.

[artemiskitty]

If there

must

be scum on the wagon, it's probably between Brian, Rail Tracer, and Titus. I am not happy with any of those choices, though, so I'm going to assume worst case scenario here.

titus is town, trust me!!
this is mantis
look at NS's ISO again

[artemiskitty]

@ak,

i would like you to explain the nat town read because i'm going over his iso now and don't see it. he largely coasted by d1 contributing virtually nothing in the way of content and his position on the db wagon is about where i'd expect scum.

for reference, i'm reading the other three players at the front end of the db wagon as town and i do not believe there was no scum on that wagon.

It is not completely out of the realm of imagination to assume that seven people voted wrong--even assuming the worst numbers of 3 scum+SK, that leaves 9 town to mislynch.

no, it is highly unlikely given how hesitant people were to lynch DB. that suggests there was already scum on the wagon. i may be wrong about one of my town reads in the early part of the wagon, but i'm almost certain there was at least one, maybe two scum on the wagon prior to titus's hammer.

If there must be scum on the wagon, it's probably between Brian, Rail Tracer, and Titus.

if you had to pick one, tell me who you'd pick

i could be biased in that he's on the same page as me, in regards to NS.

[artemiskitty]

what was town about that post?

look at last post.

why are YOU not considering NS?

[artemiskitty]

who took over HP?

[artemiskitty]

ahh nvm, ranaway..
who seems kinda absent

[artemiskitty]

RT, why are you being difficult?

[artemiskitty]

gonna look at Nat's ISO...

[artemiskitty]

Eh, it's fluffy but I'm getting really strong town read off Titus at the moment. I don't get the Rail Tracer vote really, but everything else adds up in my book.

Nat...can you say why you were getting a really strong town read off Titus?

that;s pretty much the only thing that sticks out for me, with Nat. Otherwise, i think he is town.

[artemiskitty]

how the fuck am i being difficult?

i said if you convince me, i'll consider voting ns.

that's about as not difficult as i can be, so consider yourself lucky.

lol

ok. i will restate with NS.

give me a minute or so

[artemiskitty]

I know meta cases aren't the best, but it's all I got...the Titus-town read is like 100% gut.

take a look at Fuz's play as well, to confirm that

[artemiskitty]

first off NS's post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5294916
he votes Dessew off the bat... but then doesn't even mention him till mid summary. if i was voting someone, i would think they'd be the top mention. here, for him, he''s just a part of the summary - as in, no big deal.
if you look at a lot of his posts, it seems a lot like's he's just asking opinions, mostly... rather that stating them. the only opinion he is vocal on, is Dessew being scum, who again he asks other opinions on.

[artemiskitty]

that;s pretty much the only thing that sticks out for me, with Nat. Otherwise, i think he is town.

see, my biggest problem with nat is that i don't see any town in his posts. he has literally coasted through the entire game since he replaced in. some bullshit about needing to find "tempo" but then the rest of d1 was spent riding out the DB lynch and providing zero content. i also felt kinda meh about some of the things he was saying, like when he parroted my thoughts on the lack of counter-wagon and him trying to force a town block.

the other problem i have with the slot is i consider the way saki replaced out a minor scum tell. it was minor enough that i was willing to overlook it, but saki replacing out after HP brought up meta for why saki wasn't playing his town game looked like saki upset that he was caught. but yeah, this is rather minor so whatever.

to be honest, i thinnk HP looked pretty scummy. i don;t know what is to be said for his replacement. but so far, it doesn't seem that great.

i dunno, right now, i'm still liking nat's for town. and before you ask - it IS the post that i mentioned already, combined with gut.

[artemiskitty]

@ak,

you say you didn't like ns's initial reads post. what did you think of natirasha's?

I thought Saki replaced out due to issues with Ongoing games?

he voluntarily replaced out when HP brought up an ongoing game to talk about why saki wasn't playing to his town meta.

i thinnk that could be a coincidence.
plus like i said, HP was scummy. did you not agree before that HP was ????

[artemiskitty]

here, for him, he''s just a part of the summary - as in, no big deal.

you might have a point that this is unusual, but it doesn't seem to me to be alignment indicative.

give me a break. it totally is .. strange. you have to admit that.
if he was really genuine with his vote, he'd put a lot more emphasis on his say with Dessew, than what he did.

if you look at a lot of his posts, it seems a lot like's he's just asking opinions, mostly... rather that stating them.

*shrug* i do this a lot when i'm trying to figure out the game. the exchange i had with him shortly after he entered the game left me feeling he was town, and while i didn't like the insistence on dessew being scum, it's not like he had a lack of opinions. for example, you even criticised his opinion on titus's posts, and i believe he was the first one to bring up the point about the lack of counter-wagon on db.

so? i don't understand why you are sticking up for him this much? maybe playing devil's advocate? you seem to be defending him... and maybe you are trying to be non-biased. but, beyond what you have said here... can you take a look at the other side of it?

i thinnk HP looked pretty scummy

hmm. i disagree. i didn't like a lot of his early posts, but i feel his later posts looked town. the thing that got him force-replaced is an example of town-looking content.

how????

[artemiskitty]

hmm just read ns's iso and don't see the obvscum you apparently do. i'm thinking town. the persistence on dessew is the only thing that worries me but i'm chalking that up to ns being shit.

ok. so you think nat then. who else?

[artemiskitty]

artemiskitty (mantis/mala) - paranoia about me could be a put on, but it looks pretty townish. Mantis also blatantly keeps asking lots of questions after mentioning it's part of her scum game.

GiF - we need to talk.

This is Mala speaking, but you confused Mantis' meta read of Fery with something you think Mantis is self metaing.

[artemiskitty]

i highly doubt dessew was perceived as a threat because of his suspicions. more likely PR hunting or something.

anyway, my pool of suspects today is {mario, mogamma, natirasha}. outside chance at titus and maaaaaaybe ns if someone can convince me, but these three i feel are most likely scum.

general question for anyone to answer: where's the scum on this wagon?

Daniel Bryan (7): Rebel Without a Pulse, Rail Tracer. Brian Skies, Sound of Silence, Natirasha, Dessew, Titus (LYNCH)

I can say though this post pinged a lot.

So you want people to answer this without answering it yourself. Seems like you are trying to see what people say in order to use that in the future for your benefit.

Your top three scum suspects are not

even

on this wagon so why are you asking others to answer it when you barely believe it yourself? You only stated Titus with hesitation, I might add.

Then you drill our slot to answer it after others ignored it.

[artemiskitty]

Mario needs to post or replace out, really.

Dessew's main scumspect was Brian Skies. The nk fits in with my perception of Brian Skies, but as usual with NKA, >WIFOM. Move Skies down a tier in my reads for now.

I do have to say this NK is interesting. I need to see if Brain Skies has any scum games on site I can dig through.

I really wish the DB lynch didn't happen because a few posts were really from a town-mindset, but I think people were too "focused" on him being scum to see it.

I actually thought Dessew was scummy so him being NK'd was a shock to me.

Only thing I could maybe be thinking is that there is no scum on the wagon (hard to agree with that when we maybe have 3 scum in the game) and that the kill HAD to be on the wagon because killing someone off the wagon would do harm in VCA along the way.

[artemiskitty]

@ak,

i would like you to explain the nat town read because i'm going over his iso now and don't see it. he largely coasted by d1 contributing virtually nothing in the way of content and his position on the db wagon is about where i'd expect scum.

for reference, i'm reading the other three players at the front end of the db wagon as town and i do not believe there was no scum on that wagon.

It is not completely out of the realm of imagination to assume that seven people voted wrong--even assuming the worst numbers of 3 scum+SK, that leaves 9 town to mislynch.

no, it is highly unlikely given how hesitant people were to lynch DB. that suggests there was already scum on the wagon. i may be wrong about one of my town reads in the early part of the wagon, but i'm almost certain there was at least one, maybe two scum on the wagon prior to titus's hammer.

If there must be scum on the wagon, it's probably between Brian, Rail Tracer, and Titus.

if you had to pick one, tell me who you'd pick

I don't really believe you believe this, just saying.

~

Also how to tell Mantis and I apart:

Sorta like when I'm playing with Mollie, but so much different <3

Mantis doesn't use caps.
Mantis loves multiples posts in a row. (This is an exception since I feel like spam posting <3 yay.)
If it sounds semi-snarky it's probably Mala. Mantis is sweeter than I am <3

[artemiskitty]

artemiskitty (mantis/mala) - paranoia about me could be a put on, but it looks pretty townish. Mantis also blatantly keeps asking lots of questions after mentioning it's part of her scum game.

GiF - we need to talk.

This is Mala speaking, but you confused Mantis' meta read of Fery with something you think Mantis is self metaing.

This is Fery speaking, and the above words were mine. It's two separate thoughts and the read is leaning town.

pedit Mala, he has no completed games at MS so far. I checked again earlier today.

Seriously now, no way. I really thought it was GiF.

And okay.

Yeah I was kinda hoping there was something here. There's nothing to really know how he would act one way or another. So a lynch on him is sorta a toss up for alignment information purposes. (still doesn't make me feel better)

[artemiskitty]

;-;

Don't talk about Paradox Prime. It brings unwanted, sad memories back up for me.

As for Nati's play he does coast as either alignment. He coasted when he was town in my game for a bit.

[artemiskitty]

You're talking about lynching Brian Skies?

I'm kinda not too thrilled about that idea tbh.

GiF's strongest scum read is Titus.

I gotta talk to Mantis about it, but right now RT is making me really uneasy. Maybe it's just gut, but I'm not liking his current posts.

I also don't have ns giving me the same warm and fuzzy feelings he normally gives me as town.

Now see I can read Titus, but it's a later stage in the game.

[artemiskitty]

;-;

Don't talk about Paradox Prime. It brings unwanted, sad memories back up for me.

As for Nati's play he does coast as either alignment. He coasted when he was town in my game for a bit.

IME he coasts on day 1 and becomes more proactive, though still in a sort of laid back way, on day 2.

Yeah, actually I can see this somewhat in my game.

HB was a different experience though because Mac was able to hide behind him and then die and then BRO tracked Mac to Nati. So we couldn't see what scum-Nati would have played like on Day 2 because he was essentially cop-investigated.

[artemiskitty]

Anyone else feeling Brian scum?

Oh, that's how you get lynched today. Shit like this. Okay.

Well its ironic that Rail Tracer has been accusing HP of hiding behind the hydra discussion when the attempts at scumhunting are there and the only reason HP keeps talking about hydras is because Rail Tracer keeps bringing them up. Makes sense? Also, what is iioa?

Ik Brian, whats problematic here is that you initially didnt say anything about his hydra statement until people said they didnt agree with some of it, your post agreeing to a part of it looks like it supports the whole statement.

Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.
I think he may have a point about Dessew but Im having a gut scum read on him.

Scumreading ns? Really? v.v

why did you ask this last question of DB, when you know he was lynched?

[artemiskitty]

Wow, you're totally right, I didn't mention him much at all. A large part of it is that FuDuzn was scum and Titus has done roughly nothing.

but the last thing you did say about fuz was

Humble, or I could be town frustrated that I am being scum read for something I don't understand how it could possibly be scummy.

If you want lunch me than get it over with, I am used to micro games where losing one townie makes a big difference, losing me probably won't matter much here. And then you can all focus on actual scummy players.

Not sure what to make of this overreaction. Could be town.

[artemiskitty]

Alright, sure, Muffin. I'm not known for my verbosity, but I'll try to flesh out my thoughts.

So, my scum reads right now. Notscience, Mario, kind of Brian Skies. Mario is for the lack of, well, anything this game--if we don't deal with him, at the current rate he will get a free trip to LyLo. Don't like that one bit.

Brian Skies is mostly POE(shitty, I know), but I like SoS, you, kitty, nacho, Cephrir. That leaves Titus and Pro hawk as other choices--for Prohawk its too early to say. I didn't pay close attention to HC or mogamma, but other apparently have them as town read which is points in their favor and Titus, well, I think I already explained that its pretty much pure gut on her--the fact notscience is voting her is points in her favor too. Brian Skies...I had him in my top town reads upon entering the game, but I feel as time's gone on, he's slowly moved into the background. You can only use 'catching up' as an excuse for so long. I initially had him up there also because he came off as friendly--I know I've mentioned this to others before, but I tend to let thongs like that cloud my judgment.

So, notscience...where to start with this guy. So, town ns is a hugely rash entity. He likes to misuse terms like 'confbias', calls himself obvtown, and typically acts like a shot/mildly scummy. In hardboiled, he outright stated he does that on purpose(side note: my actions vs ns that game were 100% legit and I would have done the same exact thing as town to prove a point). This game, however, his posts have no sense of recklessness to them. It all feels calculated. I understand he is trying to work on his skills, but this drastic a change(literally one game)...is odd to me. Moreover, I don't think he has taken a strong stance on fucking anybody all game--he cheerleadered the DB wagon from the sidelines(626), his entry post is a waffle stack. I guess I should rephrase--he took a strong stance on Titus, who as I mentioned I'm townreading. Not only that, but he had fuduzn among his strongest town reads at one point, but later recharacterizes him as 'mostly posting fluff'. It just doesn't make sense...there is no indication of his movement from Strong Town to Strong Scum. The 'amished' this is fucking stupid. He also was pushing for a Dessew lynch at one point(minor ding in his direction).

i'm not liking his stance on Titus either. and he was asking too many people what they thought about Dessew, it seemed to me

[artemiskitty]

I am aware of that. Just because I say someone could be town once doesn't mean I think they are town, it just means I have doubts.

I generally have doubts.

@864: It wasn't a real question.

i guess because you said "fuz was scum" that it sounded something of certain... not one with doubts

[artemiskitty]

Mario's Day 1 activity is scummy, but I still think it's just regular apathy. End of Day 1 just looks like lost town, and I would know (speaking from experience).

it was mario's first post that i liked. it read like he was just speaking whatever came to his mind (he apologized at one point in it, for being disjointed) -- which, i would imagine to come from more of a town perspective. and i kinda liked what seemed to be certainty on his part, with his HC vote.

[artemiskitty]

also why are you townreading ceph?

yea, that's a little questionable

[artemiskitty]

i think brian skies is town. remind me to talk about why #811 was almost certainly a town post at some point later on today.

[artemiskitty]

@brian

is there a reason you're not voting titus?

Not really. I tend to not vote or move my vote when I should. I can vote her anytime, but it's not like there is a lack of discussion going on.

Also, Mantis claims she is sure titus is town and I have limited experience playing with titus.

i dunno, it was fuz's appeal to emotion. it just read as very town. i've played one game with fuz when he was town. so i'll skim that old game again, to see or confirm.

[artemiskitty]

not an NS one anymore, Nat?

[artemiskitty]

i think brian skies is town. remind me to talk about why #811 was almost certainly a town post at some point later on today.

maybe tomorrow, if i'm still alive. it's not important to day if he's not being run up.

ya but. that's no good. there are quite a few people who think he's scummy (i don't). so if you have a case for him being town... it might help change minds of those who think he is scummy.

[artemiskitty]

Him? I distinctly said my vote has yet to change, I'm 100% for ns. I'm just saying that if were lynching Mario, I support it and will help out.

i can't see you being lynched for sure today, just because RT is convinced you are scum.

[artemiskitty]

so far i'm thinking NS, and next i'm wary on is Cephir. i did not like HP's tendency to just ask questions... and what seemed to be flinging mud in a small way, on just about nearly everyone.

[artemiskitty]

i will have to chat with mala as well, to see. she mentioned to me that she thought titus's post here, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5345478 seemed like a townish post. aTe

[artemiskitty]

What? 880 made no sense in context, ak.

i know i realized that after.

i actually had that in my mind to say to you, in response to your 875. you sounded defeated :p

[artemiskitty]

it might help change minds of those who think he is scummy.

ok. and if he gets run up, then i will. otherwise, i don't really care who finds him "scummy" today.

but if you think he is very much town... shouldn't you be concerned with *who* is scum reading him? ie - possible scum "scum reading" him

[artemiskitty]

yeah, and in that sense it's better that i

don't

talk about why i think he's town and let them continue attacking him. do you think i'm unable to monitor that?

lol

i didn't think of that, until you just said.

but if you're dead... then uh... your thoughts will go unsaid.

[artemiskitty]

Mario's Day 1 activity is scummy, but I still think it's just regular apathy. End of Day 1 just looks like lost town, and I would know (speaking from experience).

it was mario's first post that i liked. it read like he was just speaking whatever came to his mind (he apologized at one point in it, for being disjointed) -- which, i would imagine to come from more of a town perspective. and i kinda liked what seemed to be certainty on his part, with his HC vote.

What did you think of his later posts?

see that's the thing... i actually haven't read much of his later stuff. i'll do that now, and get back to u

i dunno, it was fuz's appeal to emotion. it just read as very town. i've played one game with fuz when he was town. so i'll skim that old game again, to see or confirm.

Do you think it could be frustrated scum?

i don't *really* think so
the only thing that actually did bug me a bit, with titus, was her take that Prohawk was town. because i'm not really seeing that with his posts, right now. not thinking he is scum... but nothing saying town enough to put him in the town pile.

[artemiskitty]

ya, brian - there's not nearly enough from Mario. but the one big post he DID do... i liked.
maybe his replacement will be able to fix that. i'm happy he did replace out so that we can have a better read of the slot.

[artemiskitty]

sure, whaddaya want to talk about?
(it's mantis posting)

[artemiskitty]

What are you thinking about Nati?

(I know)

i do think he is town.

RT - brought up some good points, about him saying that he had HP as town... but yet, still put him in the 'need to hear from pile' as opposed to his town pile.. way back when.

but i think Nat's posts come across as genuine.. and like i said, his 875 kinda sounds like defeated town.. the whole "so be it"

it is definitely helping that he's got NS as scum. because i very much think NS is scum. if i'm wrong on that... i will have to re-adjust. but another reason i have Titus as town, is his take on NS as obvscum, as well... that combined with the fact of fuz's aTe.

what are your thoughts on Nat? you've been kinda back and forth/unsure?

[artemiskitty]

Ooh, the girls are talking about me again! God, if only I was still in High School!

are you blushing again??

[artemiskitty]

SOS, you even had Saki, yourself --- as town.

[artemiskitty]

ya also SOS - fuz's ISO, i just can't see as anything other than town
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5291405
no way that is scum

[artemiskitty]

prohawk, you also know that brian is a newish player, ,right?

[artemiskitty]

actually... pro hawk might be scum

[artemiskitty]

NS, Cephir and Prohawk

[artemiskitty]

prohawk:

What do you think of the other four lynch candidates, ProHawk(ns, Titus, me, Mario-slot)?

[artemiskitty]

I never said Brian wasn't on the table, but your position on him was clear so I was probing for the other four.

PEdit: if were throwing out scum teams, ns/Brian/Mario is my bet.

why brian and mario, again though?

im sorry if you've already clearly stated. but i don't *think* you have

[artemiskitty]

votes can be used to pressure..

[artemiskitty]

Mario because he's been useless. This could change if his replacement is useful.

Brian because POE, sadly. Its between ProHawk, Titus and him and I like Titus as town. I could definitely see Pro hawk as the scum in the pair though.

i think so. re prohawk


prohawk - gut. :/ that's all i really have. i have liked all his posts.
and so i end up getting suspicious of you, for pushing a wagon on him.

[artemiskitty]

votes can be used to pressure..

Do elaborate.

responding to

Also, I don't see anything wrong with my vote. I thought votes could also be used to pressure.

which is another reason why brian being newish is relevant

[artemiskitty]

Can you rephrase that last statement of 921, Mantis, the pronouns are confusing.

well, i think i agree that Prohawk could be seen as a pairing..... with NS. i don't agree with your take on Mario.

i was saying to Prohawk, in response to his question on why Brian is town to me. is that i have liked all of Brian's posts. i still think Brian is town. and i'm partially sus of PH for pushing a wagon/lynch vote on him.

[artemiskitty]

this is also why i wanted RT to explain further on his town read of BS

[artemiskitty]

i was saying to Prohawk, in response to his question on why Brian is town to me. is that i have liked all of Brian's posts. i still think Brian is town. and i'm partially sus of PH for pushing a wagon/lynch vote on him.

Do you realize how incredibly ironic this statement is considering Brian pushed a lynch on

confirmed town

, and you aren't the least bit suspicious of him?

ironic is the wrong word >.>

i'm not really

[artemiskitty]

stop trying to make him look bad PH!

[artemiskitty]

prohawk... you know that a bunch of people also pushed a wagon, on a *confirmed town* too, right?

[artemiskitty]

cephy, can i call you cephy? (i don't care, i'm calling you that anyway)

care to lynch natirasha?

You may.

Only if I get no traction on Titus and Mario.

^so bad

[artemiskitty]

SOS, do you see this?

[artemiskitty]

titus is town, Cephir. Mario was a lurker who is now being replaced. cephir, you are really so adamant on lynching a lurker? (Mario). i call pure BS on your part.
you're not even giving the mario slot a chance. you are completely hoping for a mislynch there.

[artemiskitty]

titus is town, Cephir. Mario was a lurker who is now being replaced. cephir, you are really so adamant on lynching a lurker? (Mario). i call pure BS on your part.
you're not even giving the mario slot a chance. you are completely hoping for a mislynch there.

Titus is not town. Mario is scummy as fuck. You are so far off base it's ridiculous.

titus is town. and mario was not that scummy.
i don't think im off base with them.

[artemiskitty]

SOS, do you see this?

this is insane.

SOS.... i am still suspicious of you.

[artemiskitty]

Oh throw in a leaning scum on Cephir.

thank you!
me too

[artemiskitty]

Ffery why the fuck can't you see that Titus is scum

such bs

[artemiskitty]

My problem with Cephrir-scum is that HumblePeirot was, like, townie to the nth degree.

he was most definitely not! look at his posts. he was flinging crap at everyone
(good method as scum... cause it makes it easy to place your vote where ever)

[artemiskitty]

(NS, prohawk, cephir and possibly SOS) is my pile. everyone else is town... i think

[artemiskitty]

I'm almost as concerned about your strong notscience read because I disagree with you, too.

This is making me wonder if my reads are just screwy. Usually when my reads are screwy, I have a scum player in my town pile.

>.>

[artemiskitty]

sos... when you are town, your reads are ever screwy. i know this.. you know this as well.

[artemiskitty]

never*

[artemiskitty]

you are never *this* concerned whether your reads are screwy,as town... cause you are normally very confident.
this is why i don't trust you.

[artemiskitty]

you are never *this* concerned whether your reads are screwy,as town... cause you are normally very confident.
this is why i don't trust you.

I am not a big fish here, and this is not a small pond. My confidence came from tons of meta experience with the same players game after game after game.

I love the lack of certainty. I love the confusion. I love that I can't usually completely solve games on day 1 or 2.

It's frustrating sometimes, but it is way more interesting playing here.

it is different, for sure.

i guess my issue is, is that i have all of Nat, Brian, and Titus, as town. as well as Rebel and RT. This is why i'm getting my back up with you.. you seem just too uncertain on all of those players.

[artemiskitty]

also SOS,

[artemiskitty]

also... we should be not leaning on a Nat vote, but rather - an NS one.

[artemiskitty]

plus the batshit crazy reads they've had all game didn't strike me as being particularly scum-motivated.

shh

[artemiskitty]

i'm still wondering about NS a bit.

[artemiskitty]

Vote: notscience

Prohawk, I don't think they landed on the wagon either. Why are you voting AK?

General absence last game day and this game day is troubling to me topped off with trying to get me lynched on a false premise. NS isn't a terrible lynch and would be my second choice.

Pro hawk, I pretty much dropped my suspicion esp after the Brian lynch.

[artemiskitty]

Vote: notscience

Prohawk, I don't think they landed on the wagon either. Why are you voting AK?

General absence last game day and this game day is troubling to me topped off with trying to get me lynched on a false premise. NS isn't a terrible lynch and would be my second choice.

Pro hawk, I pretty much dropped my suspicion esp after the Brian lynch.

are you guys still suspicious of NS or...?

i haven't talked to mala about it again, but i definitely still am. i didn't want to vote yet and get him hammered too quickly yet though...

[artemiskitty]

I'll get you guys my full reads tomorrow (@RT, these two flips have really shook things up for me)

And >.>

that's the thing notscience
i imagine that you would just state what you want RIGHT now. not wait. if you were town

[artemiskitty]

i mean, if you were town - wouldn't you just shoot off what you were thinking?

[artemiskitty]

Neverlynch
Nachokvm- duh
RT- duh
Prohawk- He's seemed the most pro-town out of everyone left. He hasn't been incessantly tunneling, he has been transparent (see: his response to my Titus case, his nati cases.
Titus- The interactions between Titus and Nati make it really unlikely they're scum together.
AK- They've spent most of the game tunneling me, and now that everyone is going after me, they're having reservations? Dunno, that's weird. I found the tunneling town, but the latter part is unnerving.

where did i say i have reservations?
my last post was saying that i definitely am still suspicious.

[artemiskitty]

hmm

[artemiskitty]

actually ns - that wasn't a hammer, i don't think. that was L-1

[artemiskitty]

wait - DO you think GIF is scum or town?

[artemiskitty]

i don't believe ns actually thinks that was the hammer.

should i hammer?

[artemiskitty]

gonna wait a little bit for a response. if not, i'm going to

[artemiskitty]

hammering..

VOTE: notscience