Mini 1496: The Cash Cabd (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

Hiya. Reading.

[Cephrir]

5 pages in and I feel like posting, deal with it.

I believe I am. I'm concerned that a lot of noise about hydrae in the game will distract from focusing on the entire player list, and I see you as the source of a lot of noise about hydrae in the game.

I agree. All that needs to be said is: "Hi, I'm HumblePoirot. To make things easier for me, I am going to treat each hydra as a single entity, regardless of the heads involved." End.

You don't need their approval to read them the way you want to read them. They don't need to tell you how they're going to use the hydra. It is meaningless fluff.

Your questions don't seem to benefit the town in any way and have almost no real usage, if any, in sorting out the hydras.

Brian Skies concerns me a little. He comes off rather agreeable.

This is only my second game, and my first dealing with hydras. I liked HP's logic in dealing with hydras, especially since there are so many of them (almost a quarter of the player base).

But I never said I liked his questions. They're pretty useless in my opinion and I don't see how they can help us scumhunt. After browsing other games, I feel like a lot of useless pages will be produced from arguing about them.

Well, this is basically garbage.

Jesus Saki that it literally the worst thing.....literally, that is what I think.

And SOS, you said Brian being agreeable was weird......then said that it probably means nothing. So why bring it up?

She didn't really say that. Also I'm pretty sure this is ObvtownFfery so there's really no point in poking her with sharp things.

Right so poking someone a bit about the way a post was worded is obv scum tell now.

I hate early game time, no one is catching scum from a couple posts, you aren't that good.

Oof. I don't like this reaction.

Rail, explain my anti town intentions in my questioning? Enlighten us all as to how they are scum and not town motivated?

It is early Day 1, people were still stuck in stupid rvs and rqs or being overly concerned about the hydra infestation in this game, I chose to question a player about something that seemed a big off to me. When they didn't answer my question in a way that satisfied me I prodded a little bit.

Again, explain anti town motivation.

I will not back down from this and will question everyone who is voting me, and

those who are apparently too scared too vote me

(and that isn't a scum tell?),until I get a solid explanation about this.

Oh and if your response is that this early you can't make solid reads, than you are just making my point.

/pipebomb

I dislike this too, particularly the bolded. Apologies if I'm not explaining why I don't like things right now, hopefully I'll start being able to actually do that once I catch up.

What assumptions can be safely made?

Follows these standards, game will be balanced, probably three scum, probably at least one investigative role & one protective role.

What assumptions can we not make?

Anything else, pretty much.

elaborate on why poirot seems rather town to you.

I think that his hate of hydrae from two years ago is genuine or else he wouldn't make a giant ranty post against it, and the way he's acted upon this hate is more indicative of a town mindset than a scum mindset. I don't really see an advantage as scum of "hydras suck!!!" either, so that's an added benefit. Why aren't you townreading him?

I'm really struggling to see how this raised a flag for you.

Do you think he sensed it as a point of weakness as scum?

I want HC to react to #98&99 first.

Why does your vote need to be on him in order for him to react?

Wasn't there anything you could talk about? anyone you could vote?

We could have voted Fegelein again, but I'm pretty fine with my vote on him and would find it a little redundant if we unvoted and voted the same person.

You ommited SOS. Why? What do you see in us that you don't see in him?

My sorting process usually goes something like: 1) Read someone as leaning scum, leaning town. 2) Treat them as town/scum, get into their head a bit. etc. etc. I've played enough with SoS that I usually get a strong read from the first few posts, so the "declare town" part usually isn't necessary, and ends up being detrimental when dealing with her as scum (the more uncomfortable, the better).

I think this smells like town Nacho. It certainly doesn't smell like 572 Nacho, but that's not saying much.

Humble, or I could be town frustrated that I am being scum read for something I don't understand how it could possibly be scummy.

If you want lunch me than get it over with, I am used to micro games where losing one townie makes a big difference, losing me probably won't matter much here. And then you can all focus on actual scummy players.

Not sure what to make of this overreaction. Could be town.

Dessew and SOS, you are both correct in thinking I am scummy for not having placed a vote yet. I wanted to make sure I understood hydras before I posted further/made a vote. I feel like if I posted without somewhat of an understanding it would only be hurting the townies and I since I could potentially mislead them. That being said, it is scummy of me to not have a vote down yet. Thank you for the explanation of the hydras SOS, it helped me a lot. I also want to apologize to the group for contributing to the "hydra nonsense" but it helped me, so thank you.

So far HP, and Rail seem town to me. FuDuzn is kinda scum so far, especially in (116) where he just sort of gives up and resigns to his fate after fighting it quite a bit. Could be an appeal to emotion? I definitely think there are some scum on his wagon though.

I would also like to know why you voted for me Dessew. We have quite a few players not voting, why pick me?

Vote: Fegelein

If this is going to be your posting style, one way or another, I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up with a strong read on you. You seem very readable. My first impression is town.

[Cephrir]

I read through the thread, and didn't understand a lot of the posts.

The only thing that stuck out to me was Rebel's attempted interactions with the mod. The likely-joking tone didn't fit in at all with the content of his posts and that struck me as odd.

And if people are going to be silly and scumread people for inactivity, I would assume that my name would have been mentioned at least once. For example, HC offhandedly calling Fegelein scum for "flying under the radar" is fairly terrible since:

1. It's an easy name to call out with lots of pressure already on him.
2. Interpreting this post, it (somewhat) makes sense to translate it as "oh, since I need to throw out solid reads on players to make people think I'm trying to find scum, I'll give the name of a player who has just enough posts for me and others to remember their name, but not enough posts for people to disagree with me on the inactivity callout. I'm not looking at the playerlist at all, since only accusing specifically Fegelein for lurking shouldn't garner too much attack."
3. Again, the lack of an insane amount of posts is in this kind of mafia environment terrible reason for someone to scumread another player.

To be honest this is all I really need to have a strong scumread on HC.

VOTE: HopefullyCynical

Sorry if you want to appeal to me now, but I'm most likely going to tunnel you for the rest of the day with limited evidence that other people won't understand, and rely mostly on my gut and what I believe was your most likely train of thought at the time of your scummier posts. I'm a tone and voice player; if it sounds scummy when read to myself, I will see it as scummy in its original context as well.

Good night.

P.S.: What do you gain from asking questions such as "Could it be an appeal to emotion?" rather than simply stating "It looks like an appeal to emotion."? Asking for other players' opinions on a potential opinion that you're suggesting but not adopting, rather than just running with that opinion on your own, is distasteful and, for lack of a better word, scummy.

This post was disjointed horribly but it's all I've got. Sorry if MafiaScum doesn't appreciate my schedule, which has me being slightly busy on weekends. Please take note of that, and if you disapprove, simply say that I'm scum and push for a lynch on me because I'm not posting every 6 hours. Problem solved.

What in the hell is this? Not sure if crazy town logic or crazy scum logic.

Anyone else feeling Brian scum?

Oh, that's how you get lynched today. Shit like this. Okay.

28 what? I thought you pretty much agreed with what he said earlier. You literally said that when the opinion was brought upon by someone else (SoS) so Im not convinced thats how you felt at first, its like you thought Poirot will give an opinion that would be favorable, and when it was questioned you back tracked immediately. You are my biggest suspect right now.

Reread post #16. I explicitly (and it should be pretty clear; if not, then that is my fault) stated that I agreed with the way he was going to hold hydras responsible for their actions in the same way he was going to hold regular slots responsible. Nowhere in there does it say I agreed with his stance against hydras or the questions he was asking them.

As for post #28, I didn't like HP's reaction to Rail Tracer refusing to answer his questions. Some of Rail Tracer's following comments (not SoS's mind you), made me go back towards my initial reaction towards HP's stance against hydras.

39 you liked his stance but you "never said you liked his questions" well why didnt you say that earlier? Your stance looked like you were in complete agreement with him. If you had a real problem with it, then you could have easily said those things on your first comment of his post

You're still misinterpreting me. I didn't think I needed to clarify myself, but after SoS's initial comments, I felt there was a pretty strong possibility someone was going to misinterpret or misrepresent me. You just proved that my suspicions were right.

Like I said before, I never agreed to HP's "stance" against hydras, only the way he was going to treat hydras the same way as any other slot.

143 I actually have no idea why you read that game instead of just commenting here. Or just ASK him to explain what happened. And you saying all this is like you questioning his own stance on his own game. This posts in off itself seems like a bad discredit attempt. Why use a bad game? Because he had a bad game with hydras. Duhh.

I read the game because I don't take arguments at face value. There is always evidence presented in a case, but it doesn't mean the evidence is relevant or accurate. And I'm not discrediting the possibility of him knowingly using bad evidence to support his claim (this is WIFOM and I didn't want to mention it, but it's still a suspicion I had). The important thing for me to read him is to discern how much of it is him just having bad experiences with hydras and how much (if any) of it is him intentionally painting them as suspicious or directing the attention towards them.

All three of these responses sound wrong to me.

SOrry for the binary reactions to everything, I swear it'll stop eventually, maybe.

83 great point, why dont ou just vote him seeing as he is your biggest suspect

i unfortunately do not have multiple votes

But you did say nothing he said was alignment indicative

you don't seem to understand. it's the fact that i'm not reading anything he's said as alignment-indicative that's making me think scum. generally someone who's writing as many words as he is should be doing a little more in the way of scum hunting, and the fact it's mostly iioa is what bothers me. i've sene some semblance of what could be scum hunting in his recent posts but it feels mechanical and i'm not seeing the town you apparently see in him. unlike the emotion apparent in his talking about hydras, i don't sense any such emotion in his 'scum hunting'. *shrug*

Anyone else feeling Brian scum?

no

---

^i keep reading fuzduzn's posts as towntowntown

i haven't been scumreading fuduzn since about p5, but for the purposes of gauging reactions, i've been quiet about my read reversing on him. i am a sucker for ate that looks genuine. i still want his current reads. and i think he needs to tone down on the overreacting because i'm getting sick of it regardless of his alignment.

VOTE: S.O.S

i'm not in agreement with some of sos's reads, and i'm not currently town reading him, but i don't see the scum in his posts.

is this just because of the way he's attacking fuduzn? what do you think of some of the other players who are currently voting fuduzn (particularly dessew and hc)?

---

You still haven't explained why I had to prod you for an explanation after you voted me.

two things. first, i only give reasons early on when i feel they're necessary. i feel i get more telling reactions from someone when they don't know exactly why i'm voting them. second, why does it even matter?

You asked more questions which I replied to (amongst a sizeable amount of non-hydra stuff) and you know KEEP going on about the hydras and pretending that's all I'm talking about.

no. this is just wrong. i wanted the conversation to die immediately and made it pretty clear this is what i wanted. you kept/keep bringing it up. i only mention it later because it's part of what i dislike about your posts so far.

If you ASK me questions relating to hydras I will answers questions relating to hydras.

i haven't asked you

any

questions relating to hydras. quote me.

pay attention to what I write instead of working so hard to convince yourself.

i am paying attention to what you write. that is why i don't think you're town.

Explain why the scumhunting isn't genuine and offer examples of people with genuine scumhunting (and, if there are, people with fake scumhunting as well).

i don't think it's genuine because i don't see you properly analysing motivation. as a general rule, i consider people who try to read between the lines of posts to be genuinely scum hunting.

examples in this game? nacho-hydra, sos, artemis. to some extent, isaac. i liked mario's post on hc, too. incidentally, outside of sos i think these players are town (sos i'm thinking could be town but i have a gut nagging that's not letting me put him in my town list).

What are your reads on the players of this game?

outside of the ones mentioned above, i'm town reading fuduzn.

i don't feel good about cynical and dessew but i don't think they're scum together so i'm still sorting this out.

others i don't have a read one way or the other.

Reversal on FuDuzn is completely unnecessary. Zero scum motivation for this IMO, and I don't think a scumpairing of them is likely. Town.

VOTE: Dessew

HI GIF HI FFERY HI NACHO HI MALA (kitty in name obv mala)

Upon reading, I agree with HP's statement about hydrae (although admittedly I do it myself).

I'm liking Fu SoS and HP For town thus far

Fu because the selfdefeatism is something I've seen all over the place thus far coming predominately from town

SoS because they're trying to interact and get reads on people (such as nacho) that they want to get sorted out

HP because I like some of the ideas he's brought up, the whole "hydrae are harder to read tidbit" seems like a townslip. He addressed it early rather than save it for later and try to use it against someone which feels incredibly protown. Plus, I was like "omghao2readhydrae" my first game with one in it (I was town)

DB is leaning town because his wall looks really good, it has some nice points. There's also a town-vibe I'm getting, but he has only had that one post so that's why he is only in leaning atm. One pro-townpost does not a town make.

Dessew is feeling scum to me. He voteparks for a reason, says "I want to see him react" (which in and of itself kills all reactions) and then his reason- "I was reactiontesting." It also feels like he's more into calling people town and not trying to find scum.

Mario feels weird. He's not under any fire and yet "If you dont like when I post just lynch me" seems very forced. Like a forceful way of trying to say "I don't care if I die"

Kitty is leaning scum. It seems for someone with 14 posts they only have 1 townread and 1 scumread. It kinda looks like they're trying to buddy up to fu.

Saki is VERY SLIGHTLY leaning town for me because of the reaction test.

Brian is leaning scum, I don't really see any stances from him. He's discussing but not presenting any reads. Most of his stuff is based around hydrae which is weird to me. Keying in on hydrae and no reads add up weird in my head.

Rail is null for me.

Nachohydra looks town, based on vibes and points that were brought up that I agreed with upon reading.

HC is null for me as well, mainly because I misread him last game and want to see more from him to compare.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5295264

No thanks, I'm better at metareading people when it's a game I was in. Otherwise I just confbias the whole game.

His initial tidbit about "oh that was my other head" and all that. While I don't expect it to be an issue, my first game with a hydra I had NO idea how to wrap my head around reading two people at once.

In terms of the agreement it isn't just hydrae stuff. Saki and me were talking to nacho and cabd the other day about stepping it up and frankly I agree with him about not condoning Saki's behaviour.

So I just flipped through ns' iso in the game he linked

And holy balls he is so town here it's actually insane

Well its ironic that Rail Tracer has been accusing HP of hiding behind the hydra discussion when the attempts at scumhunting are there and the only reason HP keeps talking about hydras is because Rail Tracer keeps bringing them up. Makes sense? Also, what is iioa?

Ik Brian, whats problematic here is that you initially didnt say anything about his hydra statement until people said they didnt agree with some of it, your post agreeing to a part of it looks like it supports the whole statement.

Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.
I think he may have a point about Dessew but Im having a gut scum read on him.

Scumreading ns? Really? v.v

[Cephrir]

No, I have not. I'm on page 10.

Also, I meant to mention, I was beginning to suspect artemis by PoE, but I have no idea why scum would throw out a vote on SoS, especially without a really spolid case. Then again, it's not like there was any chance of it amounting to anything.

[Cephrir]

11-15

Idk what it is, but I feel like notscience is too agreeable here, Im getting a light scum read on his slot. I dont like his attack on kitty by saying that they have 14 posts, ergo they must be scum.

Why do you feel the need to bring this up, after Ns's #231?

Well its ironic that Rail Tracer has been accusing HP of hiding behind the hydra discussion when the attempts at scumhunting are there and the only reason HP keeps talking about hydras is because Rail Tracer keeps bringing them up. Makes sense?

Explain how this affects your read on Rail Tracer.

"I can see the reason why he calls me scum"

Yeaahh, Im doubting my scum read on Dessew..

What about that sentence makes you doubt it?

He's expressed more interest in disrupting my game than in figuring me out.

I have told Nacho I was townreading you, he agreed with me. What disruptions are you talking about exactly?

UNVOTE:

I agree on NS being town. We are still sorting out Dessew.
HC hasn't posted since thursday, so is long overdue for a prod.

Can we get a prod on HC??

Stubbs.

Lotta useless questions here. I hate useless questions. Bolded is my least favorite, because the answer is pretty obvious... what part of a 5 word sentence? Um, all of it?

Nacho what do you think of Dessew?

I think Dessew is town. I think that some bits of his thought process are awkwardly transparent (I won't respond to you because it would look too weird), and some of his attacks are pretty clearly geared towards scumhunting (such as his sorting out of HC), so I'm pretty good with the mole thing for now.

i don't think him not backing down means much.

Fair enough.

btw, what's your read on ns? is there a reason you're still voting him?

No, not really. I don't have any pushes I feel particularly strongly about at the time of my last wall, and I'm not an unvoting type.

Since the "cat" is out of the bag anyways

hahahahahahaha

I can't be the only one bugged by that middle paragraph. It looks like he's trying harder to SEEM townish rather than find scum.

Hmmm.

I metadived his completed scum game this weekend.

What did you find?

He's expressed more interest in disrupting my game than in figuring me out.

I've told you that I'm going to be playing more transparently than I usually do for Stubbs's benefit. I think that is pretty much the opposite of disrupting your game, no?

I mean sure the meta might look a little different, but my play this game will be most effected by my hydra partner and not by you.

It would be cool though, if people refrained from giving this "be anti-town" card out so often.

I don't like wasting my time, and I feel that public shaming for playing anti-town is a waste of my valuable time when I can lynch scum instead.

Hate to be a pain, but I'd like to answer that question after Rebel accepts my invitation.

However, it's hard to gauge FuDuzn's flailiness when he's not posting.

Are you inviting me to a party??

Accept: Invitation

More uselessness here, but I do like the bolded. I don't know that I really see it panning out, but I do like it.

Right so poking someone a bit about the way a post was worded is obv scum tell now.

I hate early game time, no one is catching scum from a couple posts, you aren't that good.

This frustration about people looking too far into things and getting convinced too strongly about things seems like a towntell in the early stages; not only is he failing to blend in, but he's bitching at others for trying to scumhunt and do things. That seems surprisingly ballsy from Fu-scum.

Rail, explain my anti town intentions in my questioning? Enlighten us all as to how they are scum and not town motivated?

It is early Day 1, people were still stuck in stupid rvs and rqs or being overly concerned about the hydra infestation in this game, I chose to question a player about something that seemed a big off to me. When they didn't answer my question in a way that satisfied me I prodded a little bit.

Again, explain anti town motivation.

I will not back down from this and will question everyone who is voting me, and those who are apparently too scared too vote me(and that isn't a scum tell?),until I get a solid explanation about this.

This, especially the last quoted line, seemed like Fu was drawing a line in the sand, in a way, which reads as an attempt to shut down all the ridiculousness of the people posting in early game. I liked that quite a bit, and it has nice trajectory with his previous mindset in mind. "OH YOU FUCKS ARE TOO SCARED TO VOTE ME" is interestingly suicidal, but I see scum going for early ballsy plays like that in chatmafia as opposed to forum mafia where they actually have to take a step back and explain themselves.

In this game it is more about the forest, not the trees.

I chuckled at this because of a conversation we had a while back where you said these exact words. I don't think FuDuzn as scum would be likely to start this type of lecture with you and I'm not really sure that he would really have a goal with the whole "let me teach you mafia" line as scum. It's not like he has a distinct reputation advantage in this game or something like that.

Ok SOS, I [don't] get really get a bad vibe from you. Though trying to reads purely off of meta is a bad strategy imo.

Those piggybacking off of SOS's weariness of me, scum in there me thinks.

And mod, shut it. I told you I couldn't tell you what to do

Here, he backs off you (because he's scared? scum-FuDuzn hasn't been showing many signs of fear) and starts to look at others suspecting them. This reads a lot like he's sorting out his primary antagonist, and then when he's satisfied on that front, moving in on other people.

To those leading my wagon, answer my damm question please. To those sheeping, I am getting ready to vote one of you.

If I am lynched, the blood will be all over one of the sheep.

This screamed town. The last line alone means I won't be able to vote him today, most likely.

This, on the other hand is fucking fantastic. Could be a well-executed white knight, but it makes me feel a little better.

hm.

Unvote
Vote: Daniel Bryan

.

This is a really strange reaction to "I'm going to post a case on Daniel Bryan". Why would you not wait to actually see it...?

Here are my game notes from my notepad (sorry for the weird alignment). I still need to sort HP. I've been skipping a lot of his posts because of the giant walls of text. And I want to get this out there before something huge happens and I need to change the details for a bunch of my reads.


*I don't know if the early "hydra treatment" comments from HP and me are preventing the hydras from being
as transparent as we would like them to be. So right now, I'm giving them benefit of the doubt in terms of
lurking and general lack of content. Especially since they seem hesitant to post anything without consulting
their partner.

RT

- Strong townread. A lot of his early content revolved around hydras (but not because he wanted to).
Has been actively generating content and poking around the other players. Has been looking at the big
picture. I don't see any clear scum motivation right now.

SoS

- Leaning town. General lack of scum motivation up to this point, seems malleable, and I'm getting good
vibes from this slot.

ak

- Leaning town. I'm impressed with the iso given the general lack of posts. Has only posted a few reads,
but they don't follow the general concensus, which I think is a good sign. Has mostly been pressuring
SoS, which is good considering SoS was pressuring Fu and a lot of the attention was placed elsewhere.

RWaP

- Leaning town. I've been getting good Nacho vibes for most of the early game. The slot's recent activity
makes me lean town.

NS

- Null. I liked the catch-up post, even if it was done pretty roughly. Is willing to offer
information to help get a better read. I need more content though (previous slot-holder didn't
generate anything worthwhile).

HC

- Null. Newer player. Expresses many of the concerns I had regarding hydras before this
game started. I do think it's suspicious that it was so difficult for him to grasp the benefits of
a hydra without them being told to him, but for the most part, it seems genuine. His vote on an
inactive player seems like something I would do. He seems hesitant to take his own stances without other
people's opinions. But, I'm pretty sure Cabd mentioned something about a replacement.

Fu

- Null. Hasn't done much, if anything, in helping the town develop reads but has been spending
most of his time defending himself. Although I don't like his reaction and AtE, I do find the reaction
to be pretty genuine.

DB

- Null. This read is slightly biased. He was originially higher on this list. I liked the transparency in
his catch-up post. He also seems to be pretty busy. But despite the amount of content available in the
thread, he seems fixated on very specific, surface type issues. As opposed to my point of view, I
believe he has some misconceptions about what has happened in the game (Post #239). And I don't
particularly like Post #240.

Des

- Null-scum. Post #62. What scum content? I do like his reaction to Nacho in post #114. Post #172: You
got nullreads on RT, HP, AND me from all our content? There must be a lean somewhere. Still wrapping my
head around this slot. I'm suspicious of possible piggybacking and buddying throughout this game, but
I don't know how much of that actually points to scum.

Mario

- Null-scum. I'm not liking how he only offers an opinion on HC. It seems very direct. His iso is small and
I'm not liking it as a whole. Discounting the read because he said he doesn't have a lot of time. I need
more information.

Saki

- Leaning scum. I'm not familiar with meta, but I'm not buying "fakeclaim=town." Not liking the
one-liners. Asks for V/LA on #56. Possible lurking afterwards (although I noticed townies tend to lurk
sometimes too). I need more information. More one-liners and sarcasm.

HP

- Unsorted. After re-reading post #107, I noticed that I completely missed the sincerity of his tone.
I swear I read it the whole way through the first time, but I think I tunneled and subconsciously missed
the important parts (probably due to frustration of reading through the linked game). I also like his
reaction to my analysis in #163. He seems to be having some misconceptions and I don't know if they're
intentional or not. Not liking the reasoning for his vote on HC at all. Still needs sorting because he
likes to post giant walls of text that I tend to just skip over. And I'm pretty sure there's still some
stuff in there I need to either analyze or address.

I'm conflicted about this post. Parts of it feel like townie notes, but other parts are kinda... why-would-you-write-that-as-a-note things in the sense that they're general overarching statements about a player. Everything north of DB sounds like it could have been made up on the spot and doesn't sound like a note.

[Cephrir]

DB has been falling way too fast on my reads list.

VOTE: Daniel Bryan

O RLY?

Ok I've read the game. I like my slot's vote on Rail Tracer right now. His hostility towards answering questions about hydrae drew my attention. That to me screams scum and that he has one of the hydras as his buddy and that his stance will evolve as to how hydras should be treated as the game (and his hydra buddy) progress throughout the game.

HP screams town as fuck to me.

I'm tempted to throw mud here or make a "too town" argument for the purpose of helping that slot survive.

Natirasha, that was either weird scum buddying or very pro town from you regarding which Titus comes out. I'll lean town on that but don't think I didn't notice that.

Sounds of Silence, what did you think was a slip? Why?


That's what I drew from a fast initial read through.

Natirasha comments are most useless thing ever.

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about this slot surviving.

Yeah, mog's giving me some severe newbtown vibes.

Moving that slot to leaning.

Seriously? How so?

[Cephrir]

Titus' comment, sorry, dunno how it became plural

[Cephrir]

What do you think of the lack of any counterwagon?

I'm not interested in any counterwagon right now. All reasons for there not being one are all WIFOM.

I still like my vote on Daniel Bryan. I wish he was here to attempt to change my read, but it looks like he's given up already.

Honestly can't say I like the middle of this. If you were really convinced he was scum (and you should be if you just presented a case) this seems like an odd thing to say.

Just because it's scummy doesn't mean I'm scum.

And according to my earlier posts, I did have reads. Everyone keeps changing though, both through behavior and/or with actual replacements.

Or, you know, it sort of does mean you're scum? "According to my earlier posts I did have reads"? You're kidding right? First of all, that's a gross exaggeration, and more importantly, town don't have to check their earlier posts to remember who they're pretending to suspect. VOTE: Mario

UNVOTE: DB
VOTE: notscience

Your propensity for naked votes is starting to bug me a little.

Thank you for injecting me into the thread before I arrived.

Bwuh? Where are these notscience scumreads coming from at the end of 25? o.o

[Cephrir]

Titus for DB's scumbuddy.

Her last post looked very much like "ugh I really really don't want to lynch him so I'll just sit my vote here"

Gonna parrot RT- this is pretty much the first time she's mentioned me. Convenient after the first time I call her out for not mentioning like half the playerlist.

Pfffff. THere are points to be made in this direction but you are not making them.

Rail Tracer's opening is scummh. The refusal to answer questions will almost always irk me unless the questions are pointless and loaded. I don't know where RT stands though. He also asks for reads early on. Bleh. I will put him at a null now but it is a generous null and I will read again in the morning. For now my vote remains as no one screams scum at me.

Yup.

Totally.

You sure showed me.

Ohwait.

Nice try, scumfuck.

This sounds more like scum NS.

@ak,
why is natirasha town? name at least one scum on the DB wagon.

also NAt is town due to this post specifically

Am I talking to Mala or Mantis? Either way I love you. I don't think the ns case will happen before deadline though.

Literally nothing town in that post.

first off NS's post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5294916
he votes Dessew off the bat... but then doesn't even mention him till mid summary. if i was voting someone, i would think they'd be the top mention. here, for him, he''s just a part of the summary - as in, no big deal.
if you look at a lot of his posts, it seems a lot like's he's just asking opinions, mostly... rather that stating them. the only opinion he is vocal on, is Dessew being scum, who again he asks other opinions on.

Confbias much?

I really don't care for people commenting on my playing ability, tyvm.

Now that said-

VOTE: Titus

The end of yesterday looks overinformed as hell to me while also trying to setup a lynch on me. See me yesterday for other reasons.

Actually, "informed" was exactly how I would characterize your play, especially your comments around the Daniel Bryan wagon.

I might take another look at this or you could lay it out for me. Off the top of my head I don't really know what this is.

mala, i'm treating you like a person, just not one worth giving a serious response to.

when you start realising how blatantly obvious it is that i'm town and how off your reads are, we'll talk.

besides, there's nothing in your posts worth commenting on, really. this part i'm not saying in jest. i just couldn't find anything that was really worth discussing in anything you said.

Posts like this irk me a great deal.

Read list incoming.

[Cephrir]

Town: {SoS, RT}
Leaning Town: {Rebel, notscience}
???: {Nati, ak, Prohawk}
Leaning Scum: Brian Skies
Scum: {Titus, Mario}

[Cephrir]

Wow, you're totally right, I didn't mention him much at all. A large part of it is that FuDuzn was scum and Titus has done roughly nothing.

[Cephrir]

Dessew, your reasoning suggests you are starting from a premise, Titus is scum and working from there. It is normal for reads to change over time.

Ak's read depends on if ns is scum. If db flips town and ns flips scum, that slot will be near conftown.

VOTE: notscience

Will hammer db if needed when I go to bed. NS needs rope though.

There's also this materializing out of nowhere and apparently becoming his top suspect.

[Cephrir]

I must have just almost quoted him several times and decided against it. Bad vibes throughout.

[Cephrir]

what are your thoughs on nati? why is he ??? ?

I think that will always be the case. I don't think I've ever seen Nati make a post in any game that made me feel one way or the other about him.

[Cephrir]

I think that will always be the case.

how do you decide when to lynch him?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

so basically we're fucked if you're town and you and him are alive at lylo.

I'd judge based on the other player, I guess.

[Cephrir]

She didn't really say that. Also I'm pretty sure this is

ObvtownFfery

so there's really no point in poking her with sharp things.

This is a strong statement coming from the guy who in Open 527 had me in his scum pile on day 3.

Yep, I knew you wouldn't like me townreading you here. But for whatever reason you feel townier to me this game. That and you actually being town in 527 despite all my paranoia causes me to feel less of it here.

The come chat sometimes was due to wanting to chat with them. Perhaps it was unfair to lump the HP slot in their, but that was worded in such a way as to deliberately not be much of a judgment of scumminess.

On the second point, once again, I was speaking in the hypothetical. I do that quite a bit.

Oh come one now, it was clearly a scum list. This is one of those times I want to use a neutral smiley but refrain because I always want to lynch those horrible things.

This should be alarming. I read this and no less than three people have my slot as PoE scum. It is too damn early for PoE scum as we don't even have a flip. Is hat the best people do? Use your brains. That's a scum pushed train.

Only scum have enough information to do a PoE right now

.

My read on you is not PoE-based in any way. You replaced scum. Bolded is a ridiculous assertion that essentially discounts an entire playstyle. Insult your wagon all you want though Mr. "Logical Player".

As for ns, his slot is obvscum to me. I really don't understand how anyone reads him as town. His accusations at the end of the day were shit about not scumhunting despite attempting to get as much inormation as I could.

I feel like that's an NS tell.

Cephir, you have a section on 777 regarding me and Natirasha. I didn't understand that point. You also have me as PoE scum but most of

the things you hav from my slot suggest town.

This is just not true. Where did I say my read on you is POE? I didn't. My comment was referring to you saying "Nati is either town or scum" which, well, thanks that's great. Bold appears to be a blatant lie.

I like AK and ProHawk as town(not sure who he replaced but his posts seem town). I can see BS as scum with RT. I am near certain NS is scum. SoS is an uncomfortable null read. I will need to figure out that slot fast.

Are you not reading SoS' posts, or...?

No one should ever be near certain about anything in this game unless an investigative role is involved.

[Cephrir]

"most of things" != "one thing"

[Cephrir]

No one should ever be near certain about anything in this game unless an investigative role is involved.

Townreads are allowed to break this rule. I say this only because I realize I was near certain about something in 527 and I don't feel bad about the assumption.

[Cephrir]

764 the last thing you say about fuduzn is that he could be town, and after that you didn't really mention any of fuduzn's quotes. you did, however, suggest that rwap could be performing an excellent white-knight on fuduzn when you commented on one of rwap's quotes in 773.

*shrug* just saying, it's not exactly a lie.

Eh. I guess.

[Cephrir]

I disagree

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

Is there any reason not to just give all of them anyway?

[Cephrir]

At the risk of sounding like Scumrir, why isn't Mario dead yet?

Seriously, can anyone honestly answer that question?

[Cephrir]

I am aware of that. Just because I say someone could be town once doesn't mean I think they are town, it just means I have doubts.

I generally have doubts.

@864: It wasn't a real question.

[Cephrir]

NS, Cephir and Prohawk

You should probably lay off the drugs.

Unfortunately they might be town drugs.

[Cephrir]

cephy, can i call you cephy? (i don't care, i'm calling you that anyway)

care to lynch natirasha?

You may.

Only if I get no traction on Titus and Mario.

[Cephrir]

titus is town, Cephir. Mario was a lurker who is now being replaced. cephir, you are really so adamant on lynching a lurker? (Mario). i call pure BS on your part.
you're not even giving the mario slot a chance. you are completely hoping for a mislynch there.

Titus is not town. Mario is scummy as fuck. You are so far off base it's ridiculous.

[Cephrir]

6) Basically, NS's theme is that I'm not scum hunting, not pushing my reads, and not doing anything. Hardly. NS is not liking where my observations lead me. His overreaction is telling. Virtually nothing he said was accurate.

I don't actually feel that you have successfully argued against his case. Quote for me where you've done something other than vote notscience.

@Cephir, I'll break your damn rule about not being near certain and shove it straight to hell. NS is almost certainly scum. If he flips town, go ahead and shoot me. I don't like your instance on me being scum when you should have realized that I hadn't even responded to NS's "case" yet.

Break away. I'll just keep scumreading you. I realized perfectly well that you had not responded to his case yet, and I don't care for the assertion that this is all my suspicion of you is based on when it came first. Also, I wouldn't especially have cared whether or not you responded to it if I agreed with it. Your response basically amounts to "nuh uh" anyway so I am hardly inspired.

[Cephrir]

@NS, I NEVER admitted to coasting. My response was surprise that people were characterizing my posts as such. Again, misrepping. I did attempt. To do that. I was praying that lurkers would come out any lynch your slot. I replaced in at the tail end of the day. I didn't have the game figured out. You're expecting me to. That's bullshit. You want some scum reads. Try NS, RT and SoS as scum.

@SoS, are you going to do that reread or are you just going to say that I'm stupid because apparently I have fewer brains and haven't played as long. Logic is logic is logic.

@Brian, if the reaction helps your team, don't give two shits about how pretty or classy it is. Get things working first, then be classy.

Your reads literally could not be worse. Are you supplying AK's drugs, or are you just scum? I suspect the latter.

[Cephrir]

Fuck it, Mario isn't getting lynched today

VOTE: Titus

[Cephrir]

ffery's said a lot of things I've found to be genuine (and she's reminding me of amnesiac ffery) whereas she felt more... controlled, in 527? I also like the volume of her posts, this doesn't mean anything to me most of the time, but it kinda does with ffery. Maybe it's partially a product of replacing in.

I *am* more convinced Mario is scum than Titus, as crazy as that sounds. Very much want to lynch him today.

I'm conflicted about Brian Skies. Like you alluded to, he makes town-sounding posts pretty frequently, but then he'll go and say something that makes my gut sad. I feel like if I die tonight he'll be the reason why. Since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to kill me aside from Titus. Though that might require some cooperation from an SK who may not exist

[Cephrir]

There's no rule that says you have to address a case from one player to another if neither of them is you

[Cephrir]

Literally noone responded to the case.

Why are you talking to me like you think I'm town?

Because she knows you're town

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nati

There is a huge disparity with his reads and I am getting a feeling that it is due to Nati-scum trying to setup his end-game. I will run through the evidence when I get a bit more time to put it together well.

Please do this.

@NS -

"Sitting through D1 with only 2.5 non-null reads until DAYS before the deadline where she tries to setup today's lynch on me" - This is a playstyle. I can see it coming from town. Allow me to elaborate, you are upset that you are apparently her only strong scum-read. A few other players IIRC have also had expressed difficulty at getting solid reads in this game, shouldn't you then also be going after them?

You know what's not a playstyle? Trying to claim she wasn't doing this when she obviously was.

[Cephrir]

Nati. I have one question for you. Is there anything, anything at all that you would like to add to your claim? This is important.

[Cephrir]

Not the response I was looking for

VOTE: Natirasha

[Cephrir]

Guarantee he's wifoming the scum QT thing.

Nice catch RT and whoever else.

[Cephrir]

whoever else = ProHawk*

[Cephrir]

I was way off base this game. WHich isn't surprising, really. Good job ignoring me.