A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Zdenek]

Vote: Benmage

Obviously.

[Zdenek]

Man this sucks. Tierce, you picked a badass woomens like Tyene Sand or something, right?

might i suggest you vote for pride and joy instead of rolefishing?

Well, this actually is easy.

Unvote
Vote Kanye

[Zdenek]

UNVOTE: StupendousMan, VOTE: Cephrir

Cephrir could have joined kanye in getting the game started. He didn't.

Except that Kanye is not town.

[Zdenek]

tell me more zed <3

The hop to the easy role-fishing acccusation, when that's not really what was going on.

I would have had and hard time with Garuk's Elleheathen vote, except that I had a hard time believing that he was being serious in the first place so I'm okay with it.

Tammy, do you really expect anything different from Kanye as scum?

[Zdenek]

zed do you think that i would try to call someone out on rolefishing as scum unless i was positive i could put a lot of momentum behind it?

I just think that scum try to jump on reasons to accuse people of things that are generally regarded as scum-tells, and when someone does that, and it's not the thing they're suggesting, it's scummy

[Zdenek]

UNVOTE: StupendousMan, VOTE: Cephrir

Cephrir could have joined kanye in getting the game started. He didn't.

Why are you focussing on Cephir here?

[Zdenek]

I think what she's getting at is the wights was intentional. He was voting for someone who hand t confirmed...therefore a wight. Badumtiss.

Also, it's a upick. In upicks faraday decides roles before alignments. So a scum team of wights is really really low on the possibility scale.

This is such a weird defense of Elleheathen. What were you thinking?

mmmmm the point brought up about roles-before-alignment pretty much invalidates that theory yeah

UNVOTE:

So what did you think that the slip was in the first place?

I mean, I guess that Faraday could just flavor the scumteam as wights, but it doesn't seem like Faraday, especially when there are definitely a couple of explicitly undead characters that could get picked.

It was a shotgun thought, and in retrospect, not a terribly good one. *shrug*

Okay.

I'm with Mac/Mollie on this - I don't see it as a slip, since if this was the choice of flavor for the scum team there's little chance that the scum team would be the wights.

With that said, it's a 24p game, this is going to be multiball because Faraday and because common sense.

AFFC had 23 players (22 if you don't count the scum tree stump) and one scum team, so multi-ball is not a given.

Amrun

, do you think that ActionDan is a weak scum player?

I really dislike this vote. I anticipated his explanation, which came later as I expected it to, and I still dislike it. It's just so... Meh. It's so blown out of proportion and imo more guilty of the thing it accuses than kanye ever was (and plus kanye is really town).

On the other hand, going after kanye at that precise moment feels a bit ballsy for scum.

At three pages in? You dislike my vote on Kanye, but you're attacking people for essentially RVS shenanigans.

Zdenek feels scummy

You'll come around.

I assume that Andrius faking his post restriction. I didn't think he was that sort of asshole though.

And I suppose I should clarify;

I'm only a Miller insomuch as I show up as guilty (or the equivalent used for this game) in regular cop investigations.
That means people who are not "regular cops" could still check me and I'll be town.
So, y'know, I'm an Innocent Child effect basically.

You know that there are non-regular cops in the game?

I don't see the misrep by ooba that Thor is pushing.

[Zdenek]

hhhmmm....

Out with it.

[Zdenek]

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

What do you think of what Tierce and Shadoweh said about this?

Anyway, I don't buy that the mods would have informed the miller about the presence of non-standard cops, so Thor's miller claim looks bogus,
- I'm a miller, but you could still investigate me as town.

Unvote
Vote Thor

[Zdenek]

He claimed miller.
He claimed that he could still be investigated by non-standard cops.

You should vote him because that's garbage.

[Zdenek]

Do you really think that the mods told Thor that there are non-standard cops in the game who could investigate him?

[Zdenek]

Gonna pre-empt Thor a little here and state when I have a role like miller, I always make sure to get the exact terms what my downside entails. For example, a question I would ask if I was a miller would be "if I was tracked, how would the track appear in relation to my miller downside?"

So you think that Thor had a conversation with the mods, and during that they revealed additional setup information?

[Zdenek]

Well Trackers don't investigate people as town.

Anyway, I want to hear what Thor says.

[Zdenek]

All the people giving Thor possible responses are irritating me to no end.

[Zdenek]

macmollie, has mac posted yet?

[Zdenek]

All the people giving Thor possible responses are irritating me to no end.

I didn't really think of this, so sorry. But it's really hard not to respond when you say something so preposterous, like, say you got a cop innocent on someone and voted them because that's suspicious. It's just too baffling not to say anything.

There is a fairly big difference between being targeted by a tracker (and showing up as having targeted everyone who died) and showing up an innocent to a cop, and I don't see how Universal Miller contradicts anything that I've been saying.

Seriously, Thor said that he would show up as town to non-regular cops, not to a tracker, not to a role cop (of course scum miller is lolzy, but the point is that it's not him coming back as town).

[Zdenek]

Quadz, why the KKB town read - I mean is it more than just meta or can you direct me games of his that will clarify what you're thinking?

[Zdenek]

What do you think "non-regular cops" means?

It could mean a lot of things, I guess, but I have no idea what a non-regular cop that returns town investigations results is.

[Zdenek]

What were you thinking when you suggested that Thor could be a universal miller?

[Zdenek]

ANY MILLER RETURNS TOWN TO NON-STANDARD COP ROLES, OR IT IS THEN NOT A MILLER BUT SOMETHING ELSE (ie a universal miller, a gravedigger, etc.)

[Zdenek]

Well, I am not suggesting that since he's a universal miller and that since he's not, he's scum. I am suggesting his claim is bullshit.

The only thing that makes any sense so far, is that he would show up as miller to a role cop, and be town since scum-miller is lolzy. But then why say not regular cop, why not just be clear and say role-cop.

[Zdenek]

There are a ton of non-cop informative roles...

That investigate people as town?

[Zdenek]

Eh. I just read through a list of roles, and at this point, there's really no use in pushing Thor on the matter.

[Zdenek]

Through 25

Well, I am not suggesting that since he's a universal miller and that since he's not, he's scum. I am suggesting his claim is bullshit.

The only thing that makes any sense so far, is that he would show up as miller to a role cop, and be town since scum-miller is lolzy. But then why say not regular cop, why not just be clear and say role-cop.

Character cop?

I don't see how that would confirm him as town Ben.

I was thinking of gunsmith as a possibility though.

Why so thick?

Ooba understanding something, doesn't imply that I will.

You should still probably explain it.

What's your read on Benmage?

Nothing strong yet.

I believe I've seen it, but also, it's astonishing to me that this looks worse to you than anything else in the thread. What could possibly be alignment indicative about his misunderstanding even if you're completely right?

I think it shows a mindset of looking to make the miller claim look bad, hoping that will result in a lynch, without really thinking about it. For example, he's ready to vote and declare Thor scum over something that he agreed after being criticized and looked at the wiki was not something pursuable. If you're going to vote for a role-based reason that would be cleared up by looking at the wiki, wouldn't you like ... look at the wiki FIRST, instead of after being called out on it?

It's meh, though. I'm going to keep observing on that score.

I have never seen a miller come out and claim that he's a miller and investigates as town to non-regular cops. Frankly, I still think that it's ridiculous, since other sorts of cops don't investigate people as town. Also Ben has raised good points about this.

Re: all the questions about my kanye read - his posts feel like natural Kanye. It feels like sitting in a GD thread with Kanye. He feels town as shit, and if you aren't feeling the townvibes that are emanating from Kanye like light emanates from the sun, I don't think I can help you. (Seriously, I don't know how to explain it past "holy crap he feels so fucking town right now.")

This is not helpful at all.

I can't tell what Goat on a Raft is trying to accomplish on page 24.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Goat

Mainly for their interaction with Benmage which seemed like they were just trying to be antagonistic.

[Zdenek]

Nacho, did you write 738? If not, could you tell me what you think of it.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote Goat

Mainly for their interaction with Benmage which seemed like they were just trying to be antagonistic.

Mainly? What else caused you to make that vote?

Well, I remember playing a game with CDB where he as town blew up at me and thought that I was scum for pointing out someone fishing for claims, but here Goat on a Raft thought that Kanye's attack on someone role fishing was a positive thing and that other people should have followed along, and along those lines Goat on a Raft attacked Cephir for not voting with Kanye, but ignored other people not following along.

I was thinking about you today at work and I am thinking that it would be unlike you to claim miller as scum. it is a cheap way to play and I guess I think you would find it unsavory mebbe? not sure if that is right word or not.

I really don't see how you can think that making a play like that would be unsavoury.

I wrote it and I think it's the best damn post written in the history of posts. Why?

I can't say now. I will as soon as I can.

zed do you think that i would try to call someone out on rolefishing as scum unless i was positive i could put a lot of momentum behind it?

I just think that scum try to jump on reasons to accuse people of things that are generally regarded as scum-tells, and when someone does that, and it's not the thing they're suggesting, it's scummy

This post becomes relevant in the quote below.

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

What do you think of what Tierce and Shadoweh said about this?

Anyway, I don't buy that the mods would have informed the miller about the presence of non-standard cops, so Thor's miller claim looks bogus,
- I'm a miller, but you could still investigate me as town.

Unvote
Vote Thor

In this post he does the same thing that led him to think KKB was scummy. He jumped onto the easy "that claim is bogus so you're scum" argument. He contradicted himself and went for an easy vote target.

Eh. I just read through a list of roles, and at this point, there's really no use in pushing Thor on the matter.

I'm getting the feeling that you backed out of the issue to avoid any further suspicion. Are you trying to say that you were unfamiliar with the commonly used miller role? I don't think so.

Unvote
Vote Goat

Mainly for their interaction with Benmage which seemed like they were just trying to be antagonistic.

Still hasn't answered as to what his other reasons were, and I don't think he has any. His vote is weak, and it looks like he only voted just to leave his vote somewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

I did not contradict myself at all, so that is bullshit. As of yet, no one has given an example of a role that would investigate him as town that's not a normal cop, so I still think that comment from Thor is garbage. The closest is gunsmith, and that sort of put me at ease, and was the role that I was thinking about when I made the third of the posts that you quoted. Plus there had been so much discussion of this in the thread that using it as point on which to pressure Thor was going to be impossible. As to your last point, I hadn't been online in the meanwhile so I don't see how you could have expected me to post.


Safety Dance having so many scum reads does not make me feel good about him.

Also if SafetyDance flips scum I am immediately calling for blood and lynching the Nautilius slot for the elleheathen/ellebereth/Ellibereth slip. In fact I am awfully tempted to go there immediately because how the heck do you do that unless Elli is present on your mind due to QT posts. I don't see the first post causing such an impression.

Remind me, are you usually a fan of scum-slips or is this one special?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek might be a little too off-kilter for my tastes, as well. I feel like a townie should be able to come up with something better than that at this point.

What have you come up with that you are proud of?

[Zdenek]

elle's dicetags post seems super town to me

Is this because of rule breaking or is there something else?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek might be a little too off-kilter for my tastes, as well. I feel like a townie should be able to come up with something better than that at this point.

What have you come up with that you are proud of?

I mean better reasons for a vote. But since you're asking I think it's distinctly possible I'm the only one onto Messiah and/or Benmage at this point.

It looks like you are attacking Benmage for him saying what I think are pretty legitimate things. Care to outline why you think Messiah is scum?

[Zdenek]

nachy: i think the way he claimed is fine and i do not like zeds attack on him for it. that said, his claim doesnt make him town either. role before alignment and all. im null on him @ the momient

but you are okay with Benmage's?

[Zdenek]

yep

You should explain this.

[Zdenek]

You're wrong.

[Zdenek]

Stupendous, when someone has too many scum reads they are keeping their options open as to who they will be able to vote without raising eyebrows. It's a position that is beneficial for scum to take.

[Zdenek]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

[Zdenek]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

I swear to God Kanye. This shouldn't be so difficult.

[Zdenek]

go ahead and deny it again, Zdenek

I didn't deny it. I just pointed out that it doesn't have to be.

My current thoughts are that Zdenek is scum.

Cute. Care to address the fact that your reasons are ridiculous?

mebbe he comes off as forced cos he is newbtown worried about getting lynched.

or you mebbe right and he is scum and his scummates are trying to bus him.

there are actually a lot of reasons why he may across as "forced" but it may have nothing to do with his alignment.

he seems new. he seems like he is trying to find his way. <-----no way I am voting that, if he did something outstandingly scummy then yeah but he hasn't.that is why if he flips scum I will think it is a bus and if he flips town we know where to look.

You're talking about StupendousMan?

Not

that

new. Newer than most people here, sure, but don't use that as an excuse. With that said, I believe that slot is Town, but the over-politeness is somewhat concerning.

Tierce maybe scum for attacking and defending Stup. in the same post.

We already have Mollie in this game...
Hint: it's not pro-town when she does it either.
Additional Hint: when a scumhunting "style" is described as "unexplainable" I always translate that to "illogical and should be ignored because they're making gak up and lack the grapefruits to just say so either to others, and possibly themselves."

Bullshit- crap like this is why I am a fish outta water here- sorry to flake but

REPLACE OUT

Peacebringer folding under such little pressure is a problem.

Cephrir - Continually puts down our case on Stupendous yet sheeps it.

This is the sort of reasoning that I can get behind, but where did he put down your case?

When you consider that Zdenek was one of the people who didn't join Kanye in getting the game started:

What makes you think that I had a problem with people who didn't join Kanye in "getting the game started."

Hint: I didn't.

[Zdenek]

Kanye,

yep

You should explain this.

I swear to God Kanye. This shouldn't be so difficult.

Kanye only explains things when he feels its necessary. He never seems to explain when asked.

-SSK

Well, laa dee daa. He should answer because to me it looks like he's selectively scum hunting.

[Zdenek]

I still don't like Zdenek.

Quadz testing the waters.

Kanye can die for refusing to answer my question about his take on Benmage.

[Zdenek]

Borden, tell me about your read on me?

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, there is a significant lack of voting-kanye in that post where you say he can die

I only get one vote.

This seems like something you could have confirmed/denied on your own.

I tried and failed; hence the question.

Why?

I find that scum replace out under pressure at a higher rate than town.

Nothing? Pretty sure I didn't say you had a problem with those people, but that you were pushing Goat because he focused on Cephrir over other people who did the same thing when you were one of those people. It was a really roundabout way to say "I don't think not helping kanye get the game out of RVS is scummy." It's even worse because you're wrong.

As far as I can tell, this is nonsense. What am I wrong about?

^Literally Zdenek testing the waters on Kanye immediately after calling quadz out for testing the waters on him.

No. I'm saying Kanye can die. Not I don't like Kanye.

mollie's do not touch don't even look at them funny if you do I will hurt you pile:

naut
tammy
syrlacious
kanye
thor

thor's push on amrun is at a time when it needs to happen

VOTE: amrun

vote thor

you have my sword.

VOTE: thor

miolly what happened

what are you asking me here kanye

This is completely insane.

[Zdenek]

Kanye may just be being difficult for no reason.
He also looked okay in recent posts.

[Zdenek]

In this instance, yes, Kanye is not the person who I think is most likely to flip scum.

[Zdenek]

When you do, you'll realize that I am obviously town.

[Zdenek]

Shadoweh, what would you say you've been trying to accomplish today? Could you also say a bit about your read on Ooba?

[Zdenek]

The problem with pushing 'stronger' scum reads is I wouldn't say I have a super strong one right now. Besides, I wasn't getting anywhere pushing my own. >_> Better to push for what's most likely to happen that's acceptable.

Also ooba voted me before I voted him, so saying he's suspecting me because I'm voting him is the egg before the chicken isn't it?

also I'll be shocked if this post goes through. I'm starting to believe MS is allergic to me @_@

That's all well an good, but I'd really like to hear some words about your read on Ooba.

Eh, disagree here. PeaceBringer replacing out because he felt like people were putting down his playstyle felt more town to me. I think he'd be far less inclined to care as scum.

I'm pretty sure that it's the opposite.

I still don't like Zdenek.

Quadz testing the waters.

Kanye can die for refusing to answer my question about his take on Benmage.

care 2 clarify whether this is a death 4 policy reasons or alignment reasons?

zed can u answer this. ill answer ur q i ignored if u do

It's a bit of both. There's the fact that it seems like bullshit, which is scummy, and there's the fact that you're being difficult which is policy.

[Zdenek]

Eh, Goat on a Raft is still scum, but that's not going anywhere.

I just looked at this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5342787

Typical scum ISO - cast suspicion willy-nilly and then lurk and do nothing, so let's try this.

Vote: Amrun

[Zdenek]

So I agree Ooba's vote on you is bad, but he's been fairly proactive, and the somewhat haphazard changing of reads is less likely to come from scum who want to avoid being called out on read changes; although I'll admit that point's not the strongest.

Kindly read Amrun's ISO, and tell me what you think.

[Zdenek]

This head was about to express support for Zdenek's Amrun vote but then noticed the thing above about sort-of retroactive V/LA. We'll see what happens when she catches up.

You should probably just vote her.

This is pretty compelling. Also, tone in this post suggests to me that Tammy may be town.

Really? because that case is based on meta from about 2 months after SD joined the site.

His votes suck, the ooba wagon is horrible.

What votes?
Why do they suck?
Why is the ooba wagon horrible?

Tell me about your Ooba read?

It's a bit of both. There's the fact that it seems like bullshit, which is scummy, and there's the fact that you're being difficult which is policy.

which is the bullshit part?

Jesus Christ Kanye. The part where you are read Benmage and I differently over our take on Thor's claim, and refusing to explain why.

So no takers on lurker-scum Amrun, but SD is go? I mean I could vote him for his LOL 10 scum-list, but it doesn't excite me all that much. I'd more inclined to move my vote to Thor.

[Zdenek]

Eh.

Unvote
Vote Thor

[Zdenek]

SD, you're getting lynched and need to full claim.

I find SD's responses to his wagon incredibly null. I guess I'd expect him to at least try to look like town if he was scum, but that's pretty weak.

[Zdenek]

Vote: Amrun

[Zdenek]

I don't want to lynch SD anymore.

What changed your mind?

[Zdenek]

I don't want to lynch SD anymore.

What changed your mind?

He sent a rabbit to us and I don't think a scum JOAT would use the fruit vendor ability N1.

- Des

I don't get this. I mean, as scum, there's no way that he'd want to hang on to it until late in the game, now that he's claimed to have it.

chef mafia

iso'd.

Every vote has a reason. Every switch in reads is also reasoned. Nothing is done "on a whim". ever.

I am glad that finally I see a game where Amrun is town (and won with town). she's been scum wherever I see her recently.

And unfortunately she is also scum this game.

( yeah, syry and I wrecked shit that game ) but, I was just referencing that for the lurking argument. Il have to look back at the last times I saw her as scum to see if she does that vote thing as scum. I was pretty convinced she was scum the first day of that game and she wasn't, so I'm not really confident in my ability to read her.

Then you should vote her to see what happens.

Anyway.

VOTE: Zdenek

Bad, bad vibes. Most of his posts just look to me as though they're either trying to cast suspicion on or away from someone else.

His 1022, for example. Where it just feels as though he's pointing out things that look scummy to him without actually taking a stance on them while parking his vote from 300 posts before.

And his votes. Most of them are either blank or not really explained.

28 - Benmage - 'Obviously' (and only here to outline his original RVS)
62 - Kanye - 'Well this is actually easy.'
396 - Thor - 'Miller claim looks bogus.'
778 - Goat - 'Mainly because their interaction with Benmage which seemed like the were just trying to be antagonistic.'
1579 - Thor - Blank
1817 - Amrun - Blank

The recent 1848 gives me a

vibe

of some kind of fishing. It's a simple question though and may just be a case of 'looking to much into it' due to phrasing but that's what it felt like when I read it.

@Zdenek - What are your reads on ooba and Cephrir?
Also, do you think Amrun is scum due to her low activity despite her explanation?

Well, if you are going to hold my RVS votes against me there's really not much I can say. As for the others, Goat's attack on Banmage was lame and they admitted as much, Thor was a scum read from the get go, Benmage made some good points about him, and he was a lynch that I was fine with at the end of the day. I'd already explained my Amrun vote, and I feel no need to repeat myself.

What do you think of the other Amrun votes?

I don't have a strong read on either Cephir or Ooba, but I don't want to lynch either of them today.

Amrun's giving us real-life excuses is between null and scummy, and I am still fine with lynching her.

Yup, Amrun is town.

How do you get to town from that?

[Zdenek]

Unvote

Vote: messiah

lets go big guy

...I don't understand this at all. Are you just trying to be different or what?

Why are you defending Messiah?

vote terizo

Damn, you're good at this!

I don't like Tierce following along, but not really contributing, especially after complaining that she's had a long day.

It's a little early for "Don't want to lynch today" on neutralreads.
Also both of those players have good amounts to go off of.

Considering that you seem to know exactly why I wouldn't want to lynch them, I have no idea why you would object to me not wanting to lynch them.

If you LITERALLY think it has anything to do with alignment, and are not just bullshitting, then you probably need your head checked. That's your own fucking problem. Sometimes, it's not so obvious. This time it's OBVIOUS and cross-games of all alignments including modded games. You're reaching at straws -- why resort to that? Don't you have ANY other better reads? Who else is scum? Your reasoning on messiah is also really scant/ completely non-existent.

This was a stronger response than I expected.

Which makes you think what?

I'm not using your RVS against you - and state specifically that I only add the first vote in there to show the one that is RVS. Are you saying your second vote on Kanye in 62 is not RVS? Because it looks like you're defending it as a legitimate vote in 69, 182 and 187...

As for the Kanye vote, your attack on me for not justifying it is obviously bogus, since you've plainly been able to find the post where I backed it up.

If you mean the wagon as a whole, I think this is exactly the time it needs to happen. There seems to be a lot of questions arisen due to her inactivity and/or lack of contribution - and running her up seems to be working if only to get her involved/responding because lurking isn't going to cut it - we need more.

If you mean the people on Amrun's wagon, I have Alfred, Naut and Goat as town. Shadoweh I had as leaning town but the whole marriage thing/no marriage/dragon marriage fail gives me weird vibes. But I'm not really clear on what happens with all that so idk but it puts her back at a null. (Anyone wanna clear up what happened there for me? D: )

I meant posts 1814, 1824, 1862.

I don't have a strong read on either Cephir or Ooba, but I don't want to lynch either of them today.

Why not?

Because they are posting content and neither seems scummy.

[Zdenek]

Mollie can you walk me through your thoughts in 1978, 1982?

[Zdenek]

Elleheathen approaching her case in 1891 from a town perspective. It's a good case, and the fact that she included his RVS vote needs to not take away from the important stuff in it.

It's bullshit.

I think Syryana was a bulletproof townie who got replaced upon kill. That might just be the Sirens talking to me again, though.

This just looks like you are trying to feign a lack of knowledge.

@ Quadz et al: I already said that I would expect a scum JOAT to hang on to his fruit vend to at least pretend like he might try to use it to confirm himself as town, which is the only positive benefit of a fruit. Yelling at me and calling it "bad" because that's null and not townie without actually engaging my reasons for why I think what I think is pretty scummy

Oh dear lord.

Also, Amrun's "I can't believe you people think I'm scum because of a sitewide activity issue" was super town because I went through something extremely similar and I never ever would have considered saying it in a scum game. She probably knew it would look bad as she was giving the excuse and she didn't give a shit because she thought the suspicion on her really was that ridiculous--towntowntown.

- Des

You're wrong.

A lot of Messiah's thoughts seem really contrived.

[Zdenek]

Unvote

Vote: messiah

lets go big guy

...I don't understand this at all. Are you just trying to be different or what?

Why are you defending Messiah?

Because Messiah is obvtown and I want to know how the hell people view them as scum.

Why are they obv. town?

[Zdenek]

At least I can see why this would make you think that they are town.

[Zdenek]

This just looks like you are trying to feign a lack of knowledge.

lol

For this statement to make any sense I'd have to be scum with Syryana, which is quite frankly just silly even if you view me as scum.

No. Scum would have noticed that Syryana was untargetable. It has nothing to do with you and Syryana being scum together.

[Zdenek]

So what were you thinking when you posted this?

I think Syryana was a bulletproof townie who got replaced upon kill. That might just be the Sirens talking to me again, though.

[Zdenek]

I see. You think he was a day-kill shot.

[Zdenek]

That was my speculation, yes. I'm not as sure now that I did more research into it, but that it's all speculative anyway.

That is such a strange post. What is this research and how did it change your mind?

[Zdenek]

You can see my thought process throughout the past two pages. "research" I guess is a bit of a misnomer.

I don't understand your thought process. Can you explain?

I know what it's like to be totally bogged down by too many games and too many real life responsibilities, and I never ever ever would have considered using them as an excuse as scum. I presume you have some statistical evidence that proves I'm wrong about this, yeah?

Hasn't this already been explained clearly enough?

I thought I kind of explained to goat people why I voted them in #1978; it was their vote on elle. are you wanting to know why I am them as town for now? it is cos of the emotional internal consistency in their responses. I think they are wrong about that post and I am struggling to see how on earth they are seeing that that post implies that elle knew thor's alignment ahead of time. I don't like their post #2012 to quadz where he says he thinks that naut's post #1956 felt exaggerated and thought it might be due to nacho feeling "less likely to be townread this game". like that is so divorced from d1 reality it is not even funny. so they have been moved to null but treating as town for now to see where it goes.

Okay.

Still pretty sure Alchemist is Syryana, but whatever, he's hard lurking so there's that. I'm hoping for an alt slip to confirm it.

Why?

[Zdenek]

Borden-Empire - I've seen this post that you once made about Tierce's meta that you once made. I'll try digging it up if you can't remember it. I know Tierce likes to cite it as a reference to her meta. How do you think her play in this game fits with that earlier opinion?

[Zdenek]

Vote: Spyrex

[Zdenek]

Zdenek doesn't get giant sets of quotes. His whole interaction around Thor early isn't natural. 400 and 401 are baad news.

The thor lynch hurts my head, but I will say this: its the right brand of hurt that I bet that is a way heavy town wagon. When VCA time comes, remember that.

LOL.

You should probably just self-vote.

[Zdenek]

I'm really confused about why so many people are saying thinks like Spyrex is bad, but LOL we can forgive him, vote someone else.

It's making me nervous.

[Zdenek]

I mean, I pulled the exact same ploy in Syryana's Open, so I should know.

Well at least this make a bit of sense now.

[Zdenek]

Not really helping your case, Agar. I clearly stated intent and gave a timeframe. You know, like how people who are not fools or scum do things. I wouldn't have even done it though if you hadn't set up the hammer though--half of this game is understanding tempo, and with the L-1 vote lain, someone was going to take the bait. I was hoping to head it off with our intent, but it didn't work.

And I am not giving a pass on SpyreX's hammer, but I find it paradoxically MORE acceptable than the person who sets up the hammer, ie you--you were baiting the hammer with that vote and you fucking know it. I mean, I pulled the exact same ploy in Syryana's Open, so I should know.

You find it more acceptable that someone hammered off of 12 pages of reading than someone voting to put someone at L-1.

Gotcha.

This is a horrible response.

Hey! I agree with Tierce about something. That's cool.

pecially vs. Spyrex wagon (as he says, hammerin

Are you reading?

Why couldn't he have been town faking to replace out?

Those sorts of thoughts are not helpful.

Spy that's a decent post with some stuff in it, and the ponits on Elle are good. However, I don't understand your point on AGar (that case on SD was perfectly valid, and he was far from the only person to make it; why is he the only one that gets called out on it?), and possibly more importantly, you're now justifying your hammer with "well now that I

have

read the whole game, I still would have done it." That's not a reason to do it in the first place, and I don't think there's town motivation to do so without having read the whole game.

My vote stays for now. (I am not jumping on a growing Ooba wagon, guys, this is how bad I think Spy's hammer was.)

The cognitive dissonance in this post is astounding.

Kanye's cageyness is annoying - he's refusing to give meta references to Spyrex's quickhammering as town.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek bullet the spyrex's case please.

PeaceBringer got called scum and replaced out. My experience is that do this disproportionately more often than town. Aside from that despite posting quite a lot, there's nothing alignment indicative coming from PB.
Displaced did nothing.
Spyrex hammered Amrun. There's nothing town motived in that.
Plus his read on me looks contrived, since he's not scum reading you over your Thor interactions, but I'll admit that I'm biased there.

[Zdenek]

2 elaborate, if the possibility of evidence of my statement changes your alignment readon spyrex, maybe you should be inquiring w. him about it. if my bringing up the counterargument to his wagon affects your read on me, and it is clear that i will not be assed to find examples, what does that tell you about my alignment? does the truth of the statement (and therefore the existence of that evidence) affect that read then? if so do you plan on taking a look to verify whether it is true or not yourself?

Kanye, you're defending him over a pretty terrible move. You being unwilling to back that up does affect my read of you. Spyrex has a lot of games and going through them to look for quickhammers will take a long time. If you have a examples in mind, you should just post references to the games.

i think i want to lynch zed. all game it feels like he has been grasping at things that could potentially be "scum tells" for the sake of hitting on them but making zero attempt at discerning intent behind things. i dont feel like any of this displayed thought processes are genuine or town in nature at all.

Oh dear lord. Tell me the town intent that you think there is in Spyrex's quickhammer.

[Zdenek]

PeaceBringer got called scum and replaced out. My experience is that do this disproportionately more often than town.

Wrong.

I'm pretty sure that it's not.

[Zdenek]

PeaceBringer got called scum and replaced out. My experience is that do this disproportionately more often than town.

Wrong.

I'm pretty sure that it's not.

And I'm pretty sure that it is. Not only do you have to take into account PeaceBringer's recent history on the site, but also that Town will often not react to being called scum as you think they should. Everyone is different. And with Town:scum proportions and the fact that replacement ratios are frankly as null as can be as seen on several attempts at analyzing replacement ratios in the post, the burden is on you to prove how are scum more likely to replace out when being called scum than Town. Everyone is always being called scum all the time, you can't pick and choose and say that your experience shows that it is scum who primarily replace out under those circumstances.

Of course I can. You were in Rapture - two scum in that game replaced out under pressure. You can say that everyone plays differently, but scum follow patterns. One of them, is replacing out when they are pressured. Frankly, it's a tell that I've gotten pretty milage out of recently. Plus, there's the clear scum motivation of survival behind it, since there's always the chance that someone else will replace in and improve people's read on the slot, and town general reluctance to lynch a slot that's going to be replaced, especially early in the game when there's the hope that a new player will "clarify" the slot. It' like the out of game/IRL excuses tell - both town and scum do it, scum do it disproportionately more. In this game, we've had displaced and Spyrex in that slot, neither has done anything to make me think that it's not scum.

In other news kkb is nostradamus per 2329 vs 2331

I am utterly shocked that you don't like the points that I've raised against you.

Zdenek and Cephrir are the next two stale townreads to revisit.

You should probably just vote for Spyrex.

I can't say now. I will as soon as I can.

You never did this, Zed!

When you do, you'll realize that I am obviously town.

Why?

Eh, Goat on a Raft is still scum,

Why?

I'm really confused about why so many people are saying thinks like Spyrex is bad, but LOL we can forgive him, vote someone else.

It's making me nervous.

Who's saying that? The quickhammer didn't seem remarkable to me.
Disappointing, but not remarkable.

kkb-zed scum pair seems unlikely from his iso

1. I can't yet.

2. I think that I have rather obvious scum meta and that quads and I have played together enough that should have been town reading me.

3. The refusal to "reach out" after Mollie's comment, and then using posting out of hydra an excuse to drop offline.

4. See posts 2220, 2228, 2237 (but ok they busted out the spyrex double vote), 2249

Current reads

Town
Alfred Borden - proactive, playing like town-Empire.

Cephrir - open posting style makes me think town.

SafetyDance - reaction to pressure

Goat on a Raft - I doubt they are faking their ability to gain information about the setup.

Tierce - Tierce has responded to my prodding in a way that makes me think that she's town. If she was scum, I'd expect her to overreact, and really blow it out of proportion.

Null, do not want to lynch
Benmage - meta says maybe town since scum-Benmage from the wire was more forgiving of new players than this benmage. I've also liked most of his votes.

elleheathen - some of her posting seems really genuine, and I'm not sure that she could fake it.

Nautilius - I don't have a strong read here, but they are a slot that I feel comfortable waiting on.

ooba - proactive play.

Prideandjoy - this slot is a huge question mark for me. How they have a town read on Alchemist is beyond me, but their list contains all my scum reads, so I'm okay with them.

Syryana - willing to wait on this slot.

Garruk Relentless - gut

Shadoweh - ditto

Tammy - ditto

Null, willing to lynch
AGar - I don't have a strong read here, but him putting Amrun at L-1 was bad.

StupendousMan - the only reason I don't think that he's scum is his push on Nautilus today, which I'm not sure he'd do as scum.

The Alchemist - ??

Scum

kanyeknowsbest - I think he's being cagey, and I think it's an act. His vote on me is bullshit considering the things that he could be pushing.

Messiah Complex - I haven't really liked any of his pushes so far (well except for the current one on Spyrex), and a lot of their arguments have been really contrived. Their reasoning for Amrun town made no sense.

quadz08 - very unnatural shift on Elleheathen and cognitive dissonance.

SpyreX

[Zdenek]

I was taking a calculated gamble putting that L-1 vote on Amrun

What is this supposed to mean? What were you gambling?

Do you care to expound with your own reasoning behind this, or are you just sheeping the general groupthink because you have no real opinions of your own?

I think that everything that needs to be said has been.

Agar, what is your read of Spyrex?

Agar by a ttinnny margin because 2429 is at least looking at what is happening

What are you talking about?

This reads a bit forced following my last statement.

You ask me to bullet something and then call it forced? That's upsetting.

This post was fucking horrible.

Fuck off.

Unless Nautilius is a ninja, they didn't kill last night.

Why'd you pick Nautilus?

[Zdenek]

were doin it man
were makin it hapen

Zdenek posts: 0
Elle: Best way to become engaged with the game: Scream at people. If you don't want to cure your disengagement well..

I can guarantee someone is going to try to say the "before I forget" is scummy. That person will instantly become my top suspect.

Why are you warning people about things that you will find scummy?

Shadoweh, you're voting me because I aggravate you? That's cute.

SafetyDance, I still want to know why you chose Nautilus.

Agar's comment about gambling by putting Spyrex at L-1, still makes no sense. I have no idea what he was hoping to win. I also don't understand why he likes Spyrex's conviction about his hammer, since I don't think Spyrex would have done anything differently as either alignment.

But no one's really biting on Naut because they're town and your case (correct me if I'm wrong, but Naut is scum because Nacho isn't hunting scum) is weak/borderline irrational.

- Des

When did you start town reading Nautilus?

The main thing about Zdenek is that he hasn't really done anything this game. #850 is the best post that he's made for the whole game, but it's sort of what I expect from Zdenek regularly. There's no effort to really figure anything out, and he's just seemed detached the whole game. I kinda like some of his strong responses, but it's not enough to make up from the lack of anything from him.

Nacho, did you write 738? If not, could you tell me what you think of it.

This interests me, but I can't call him town for it unless he actually explains it.

Tierce maybe scum for attacking and defending Stup. in the same post.

This was a very weak reason to find Tierce town.

His reads list might as well not have any reasons because it doesn't explain anything about his reads at all.

I feel like your first point is really holding me to too high a standard, and I find it irritating that you are pushing this bullshit today, while voting for the same person I am.

For your second point, I've told you recently, that I can't talk about it yet.

Lastly, no. It's a decent tell. People attacking and defending the same person in the same post has worked for me before.

were doin it man
were makin it hapen

Zdenek posts: 0
Elle: Best way to become engaged with the game: Scream at people. If you don't want to cure your disengagement well..

You're really cheer-leading this hard considering your read on me.

[Zdenek]

Oh and Quadz is fence-sitting scum.

[Zdenek]

Around the time Nacho started obvtowning all over the thread. Did you miss all that?

I don't think that its as townie as you do. It's basically what I expect from Nacho, and his push on me is garbage.

Do you think the SpyreX wagon is full of townies regardless of SpyreX's alignment?

No I don't.

What's he fence-sitting about?

Me. Is it not obvious?

You don't aggrivate me. That would imply you inspire an emotion in me. You inspire blandness.

:puzzled: - so why'd you say aggravate then?

I guess you could call it more uncheering the other wagons. Yours is a flip I want to see the results of.

Well, I'm going to disappoint you then.

[Zdenek]

I don't actually have an *any* read on Zed. I'd be inclined to vote just based on that. Would reduce the noise pollution. Will read back when I can do more than just skim. I will not be voting Spyrex.

Well, it's not surprising that you don't have a read on me, since you aren't reading my posts.
That or you're just deliberately not answering my question about why you chose to track Nautilus.

Then why do you think you're cleared by your push on SpyreX?

I don't. Frankly, I know that you know that I am someone you could get lynched if you wanted, so I just find it irritating that you are voting Spyrex, who is a decent lynch, but pushing this case on me at the same time.

Does anyone actually have a reason for thinking that the Alchemist is Syryana other than Syryana went away and the Alchemist came in?

[Zdenek]

Prodded. I see there have been claims.

Unvote

Back later.

[Zdenek]

I have no input on this Syryana/CES-impostor/Who in the World is The Alchemist shit because... I've played a game with CES once and it was Wait Your Turn Tex and I've never played with Syryana, and this meta just seems awfully.... vague.

Really?

It seems pretty specific to me.

This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.

Ugh.

Who cares to put so much into the claim. SHE COASTED on purpose. Unacceptable. Period.

On a sidenote, the extreme difficult of the coin vig NAME-requirement... makes me think it was a role modified for the scum team.

How is someone suppose to Character KIll?????

Nope... mafia name cop? Well than maybe.

Anyways I digress... this is legit my last post. I will emoticon prod dodge until the Alchemist is dead. Such styles cannot be tolerated on this site. If we all did it, the game would self-destruct. Is one person polluting bad? No... everyone, bingo. Cannot allow.

and so

I like this.

The best arguments so far are for lynching The Alchemist, I especially like the meta ones and benmages, and the only reasons against it are that he has a coin and so can potentially give town a kill, and I don't find this compelling at all.

Why? You seem to be in the minority here (only one to bring it up) and it's funny that when there's a wagon forming on you, this is the only thing you persist with. I'm not going to indulge in any role-fishing to reeasons to a scumspect.

This is such bullshit deflection.

Vote: The Alchemist

[Zdenek]

Didn't Tierce claim bulletproof?

[Zdenek]

The pretending to be someone else as an excuse to lurk/ not playing at all like other town games. If you want to cite some town games where he played like shit, and argue that this is consistent with that, I don't really care, and still want him dead.