A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Amrun]

hey so i'm town but dan is scum
it's weird I know right

Vote: ActionDan

This isn't scummy because of the reasons it initially got wagoned, but it is a really awkward joke, just like the rest of chesskid's posting so far -- and no actiondan.

This is indicative of scum on both of their parts.

You hit your head too many times on the Wall, didn't you?

VOTE: PrideandJoy

Then again, not a huge fan of this post, either.

Because we're us:

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Oh wait. Not this game. See, in this game, we're cursed and take 2 less than the majority to be lynched. So, instead.

Unvote

Oh, this is gross... So extremely image conscious. Didn't even re-place an RVS vote (or otherwise) on someone else.

Man this sucks. Tierce, you picked a badass woomens like Tyene Sand or something, right?

might i suggest you vote for pride and joy instead of rolefishing?

Well, this actually is easy.

Unvote
Vote Kanye

I really dislike this vote. I anticipated his explanation, which came later as I expected it to, and I still dislike it. It's just so... Meh. It's so blown out of proportion and imo more guilty of the thing it accuses than kanye ever was (and plus kanye is really town).

On the other hand, going after kanye at that precise moment feels a bit ballsy for scum.

We're not gonna sign probably. SSK and I have different enough voices though that it shouldn't be too hard to discern us though. Example: the other posts in this thread are all SSK. I sometimes refer to myself as a friendly wolf token, too.

I cannot tell the difference between posters in virtually any hydra because I am not very observant. As such, I would like to request that everyone sign.

If you're not able to differentiate hydra members due to writing/playstyle, they are able to fake who wrote each post if they are called out for inconsistency and whatnot. Signing is pointless; if differentiating people is important for you, go read their completed games to see how they write.

As for your "no [hydra] else gets a pass" on signing, bah. Get better at recognizing writers, then you don't need signatures and can try and figure out if they are impersonating each other. It's fun.

Empire, you should probably sheep me.

Hey PrideandJoy--less general theory talk, says the hypocrite. Play

this

game. Seems a bit silly to be worried about not having good Townreads by page 2-3. (I'm Town. There, that's one.)

This post contains zero game talk, at a time when there should have been game talk. Talks about PnJ, for example, with NO comment on their alignment. Scummy.

No, not really. There's always obvtown. There's always the worry of protective roles. It's also always nice to have obvtown.


Not at all. If I'm townreading someone early they're 95%+ likely to be town
if I'm scumreading someone early they're only say 50%+ to be scum
so one is a lot more useful than the other

Pedit: If you're town show it, Tierce, don't come in with a weak chainsaw

Who was Tierce chainsawing?

Tierce, why so aggressive?

Aggressive

is

my default mode. I could bring in puppies if it makes you feel better, though. Empire's Town, Tammy might be Town, I'm ready to roll this game and already irked by the posting spree because I need to leave for a few hours. The hypocrite bit was referring to

me

, though, in case you're wondering.

Tammy is happy as fuck town. I've been looking forward to this game for months, being scum would have ruined it.

Empire - I'm leaning town on tierce, yes? Also I've done one shot.

This is EXACTLY how I felt upon receiving my role and I don't think Tammy could/would fake this bit -- town points for her.

oh and this is your day 1 vote on someone who has not posted and you are pushing the lynch.

I've clearly posted. So that's why you got the hat.

It's fairly obvious why there was/is a wagon on me. Am I supposed to care or something?

This post is more awkwardness. And he understands the wagon on him? That's not usually a town thing imo. "I GET THE REASONS BUT LOL I DON'T CARE" No.

VOTE: elleheathen yeah I am way supercomfy with that wagon. the wight comment reads too much like a slip to ignore this early in the game.

How could that even

be

a slip when I'm talking from the POV of someone else and not even referencing myself but someone that hasn't shown up yet?

Can town slip?

I mean, I guess that Faraday could just flavor the scumteam as wights, but it doesn't seem like Faraday, especially when there are definitely a couple of explicitly undead characters that could get picked.

It was a shotgun thought, and in retrospect, not a terribly good one. *shrug*

Not really liking the whole backing off his own argument with an awkward shrug thing.

VOTE: prideandjoy

[Amrun]

Honestly... chesskid, that's exactly the sort of thing I find scummy about you in this game. Doing that only at the expense of sharing reads? You're good at reading me, tbf, better than a lot of people, at least -- you don't appear to have even looked at my post as a way to evaluate my alignment. You only tried to laugh off the part that referred to you.

p-edit: You, on the other hand... not so good at reading me, Tierce. And yeah, I expect you (or just about anyone) to make some sort of content comment by post 73. The "hypocrite" part was what made it scummy, to me. You're a very self aware player, and you're aware when you're being hypocritical and you're not. That doesn't actually make you town.

p-edit 2:

I meant "for the duration of the game," not by that point in the game. I wrote my post after reading the whole thing. And I wouldn't have voted for you for AD not posting (he's on vacation, iirc), but I wanted to see what you'd both say to that. The reason I'm voting for you is for what YOU posted, which is not v good.

And as for "mafia 101," that's a) only a chainsaw if Cephrir is scum (there's mafia 101 for you, perhaps you need to return), b) I didn't ask because I didn't know, I asked as a way of trying to figure out YOUR motivations.

And it's not that you were unconcerned, it's the WAY you were "unconcerned" that made me actually think you WERE concerned, which is not what I was expecting from you as town.

p-edit x 10: OMG let me post. Please do not turn this game into a spamfest, people. I cannot keep up with that right now.

[Amrun]

A chainsaw is a convient label for a defense of that type. It's alignment relevant, and certainly an odd entrance, which is why I pointed it out. A chainsaw doesn't magically become something else if it's not from scum, it's still a chainsaw.

So. Walk me through this. As scum, I decide to make a post that I, (being a smart and experienced enough mafia player), know will result in ~pressure on me. Then, I feel the pressure and decide to fake nonchalance? That's this game? Really?

In what WAY was I unconcerned that was scummy, pray tell? Or is all you can throw around buzzwords.

Obviously, that wouldn't be the intentional plan. Most people seem to think you weathered the pressure well, regardless; my opinion is unpopular. So it's not as if you TOTALLY BLEW IT, but I feel like there was an underpinning of awkwardness, as I said.

And come off this buzzword shit. I literally quoted the post that I said felt like that.

Hey, Amrun, you're misrepping us a little--we did random vote Goat on a Raft like three posts later. And you can hardly expect us to not be a bit self-vote shy when we have a super-hated modifier.

I know that you did, but it was not in THAT POST, which said to me that you were more concerned with perceptions of YOU than anything else, and then you were like "oh crap, better vote." This mindset is something that comes from scum far more often. And sure, being self-vote shy is absolutely understandable, but then why self-vote in the first place? Scum are a lot more likely to open the game with those type of awkward jokes (see Frequency in the recent Baltomeet game modded by our same lovely mods, for example).

[Amrun]

"Am I supposed to care or something?" That's what you said. That is not not-caring, that is waving a big red flag that says, "LOOK AT ME, I DON'T CARE THAT THERE IS A WAGON ON ME FOR VALID REASONS!! I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE THEM, OR SCUMHUNT! I'M JUST GOING TO SIT OVER HERE LAUGHING AT PEOPLE AND NOT CARING. OH, AND DID I MENTION I DIDN'T CARE?"

That's how your posts came off to me. This is not something I associate with you as town.

[Amrun]

256 is directed at PnJ, sorry ye ninjas.

[Amrun]

Once again, I didn't/don't read that as not giving a fuck. I read it as giving a lot of fucks but wanting to look like you don't give a fuck. Those are different things.

The dunce cap was fine -- that didn't tweak me. That's just chesskid.

[Amrun]

It would have been better without the last sentence. The addition of the last sentence turned it into "trying to hard to look like I don't care."

[Amrun]

ave you considered if Andy was faking a post restriction he'd be more likely town, since scum tend towards being huge chickens who don't want to piss people off when they inevitably have to admit they can talk?

Meet game history on this game series by this mod -- history says otherwise.

[Amrun]

That being said, Andrius has struck me as town so far.

[Amrun]

Amrun, do you think that ActionDan is a weak scum player?

He says so, but I'll just say that I think his town game is much better, not that his scum game is necessarily bad.

(In person, though, he's super easy to read.)

[Amrun]

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

What do you think of what Tierce and Shadoweh said about this?

Anyway, I don't buy that the mods would have informed the miller about the presence of non-standard cops, so Thor's miller claim looks bogus,
- I'm a miller, but you could still investigate me as town.

Unvote
Vote Thor

This is the most bullshit vote I've EVER seen in my life.

ANY MILLER RETURNS TOWN TO NON-STANDARD COP ROLES, OR IT IS THEN NOT A MILLER BUT SOMETHING ELSE (ie a universal miller, a gravedigger, etc.)

Saying so is not giving additional information and suggesting this is like, blowing my fucking mind. I need to sit with this a bit because my initial reaction is to call zdenek scum for this because he's not a fucking idiot, but it might be kneejerk there.

This quadz wagon is lame. ooba is better. elle is town.

thor will sort itself out.

[Amrun]

This quadz wagon is lame. ooba is better. elle is town.

hence the prideandjoy vote amirite

What does any of that have to do with my pride and joy read?

[Amrun]

you aren't pushing it and most people are calling them town
my first expectation is that you're looking for a nice wagon to jump on

Why would you ever have an "expectation" for that?

My feelings on PnJ have not changed, but nothing new has happened there and not commenting on the common happenings in the thread is ???

[Amrun]

If what I've already said on the matter hasn't inspired people to vote for Pride and Joy, repeating myself like a broken record won't, either. If Pride and Joy continues to strike me as scummy, I'll point out scummy things as they occur. I don't even understand the style of play you're advocating, but it's safe to say it isn't mine.

[Amrun]

All the people giving Thor possible responses are irritating me to no end.

I didn't really think of this, so sorry. But it's really hard not to respond when you say something so preposterous, like, say you got a cop innocent on someone and voted them because that's suspicious. It's just too baffling not to say anything.

[Amrun]

What do you think "non-regular cops" means?

[Amrun]

I didn't. At all. It seemed to me that you were suggesting he SHOULD be, and that because he wasn't, he was scum. It was la la land shit, man.

[Amrun]

ANY MILLER RETURNS TOWN TO NON-STANDARD COP ROLES, OR IT IS THEN NOT A MILLER BUT SOMETHING ELSE (ie a universal miller, a gravedigger, etc.)

I am not sure you have read this post properly.

[Amrun]

There are a ton of non-cop informative roles...

[Amrun]

At this point, I will let Thor reply -- after he says something, I will answer you, though.

[Amrun]

Well, I am not suggesting that since he's a universal miller and that since he's not, he's scum. I am suggesting his claim is bullshit.

The only thing that makes any sense so far, is that he would show up as miller to a role cop, and be town since scum-miller is lolzy. But then why say not regular cop, why not just be clear and say role-cop.

In faradays last upick, my partner was a scum miller.

Roles, then alignments.

Is it the same for this game?

[Amrun]

...benmage

-.-

What are the likelihood that you took that seriously as town vs taking the opportunity to push that as scum? I'm leaning the former, actually, but seriously... -.-

Sarcasm is tech.

[Amrun]

Yet you picked Casso with the predetermined idea that you'd get the Miller role,

Sarcasm.

[Amrun]

I believe I've seen it, but also, it's astonishing to me that this looks worse to you than anything else in the thread. What could possibly be alignment indicative about his misunderstanding even if you're completely right?

I think it shows a mindset of looking to make the miller claim look bad, hoping that will result in a lynch, without really thinking about it. For example, he's ready to vote and declare Thor scum over something that he agreed after being criticized and looked at the wiki was not something pursuable. If you're going to vote for a role-based reason that would be cleared up by looking at the wiki, wouldn't you like ... look at the wiki FIRST, instead of after being called out on it?

It's meh, though. I'm going to keep observing on that score.

[Amrun]

@Amrun - I do think Ceph has a point insomuch as your denunciation of Benamge felt...oddly strident?

I don't think he even mentioned my denunciation of Benmage. Do you mean Zdenek?

It just kind of made my head explode. Like, omg, vote Thor because he has claimed that a miller works exactly the way a miller works! wut

Voting you because X doesn't think you're a miller, or whatever, is something else entirely.


In related news, I have no idea who Casso is. Someone refresh my memory?

p-edit:

I don't hesitate to scream about scumreads when my jimmies are rustled. I have to feel it in my bones and be on the warpath to feel like doing that. I feel like PnJ is the best vote right now for stated reasons, but I'm not ready to go all martial law on his ass just yet. I'm just going to organically comment on what strikes me about the game, and one of these days, someone will really rustle said jimmies and the fun will begin.

[Amrun]

yesss! vote him, pb!

[Amrun]

Yeah...it just felt strident, like maybe you knew I was town and were looking for the bonus points for the easy defense.
You don't think it looked that way?

Why the fuck would I think it looked that way?

What kind of question is this?


Seriously - what did you hope to accomplish by asking this question? (I don't mind questions in general, but this one irks me.)

[Amrun]

Why does it irk you so much, it's a question about your take on my read of you?
This feels defensive and deflectionary.

I hoped to get a read on you - that's sort of the point of most questions, last I checked.
What did you think my purpose was to get defensive about it?

I don't understand how that question would help you get a read on me.

What did you expect me to say, as either alignment? "Yeah, I totally busted his balls because I was scum looking for towncred!"

Like, what the fuck?

The question of the premise doesn't even make sense. I have no idea how what I would do would generate towncred in the first place. I did it simply because it was my natural reaction and as an attempt to read Zdenek.

[Amrun]

Wow, my English in that previous post is REALLY bad. I'm tired, sorry.

[Amrun]

I'd say they feel vaguely uncomfortable and haven't been as strong a presence in the thread but nothing substantial.

With 24 players alive, this is to be expected. This head rarely plays large games for a reason.

What are your townreads and why?

1. Alfred - there was a reason for this but it was early in the thread and I forget the specifics. Bet it was a really ace reason.
2. Cephrir (probably) - liked the way he joined the Elle wagon.
3. elleheathen (probably) - again, there was a reason but I forgot. This is pretty much how I'm going to approach it with this many alive - file away townreads to be dealt with later and just get on with it unless something makes me sit up and re-evaluate.
4. Garruk - I thought the "if I were a speculating type" thing in 403 came across as genuine.
5. Kanye - 100% both-heads-approved legit townread. Fact.
6. Nautilus - There may have been another thing that I didn't write down but at least part of it is the fact that when Nacho incorrectly scumreads me he's usually town.
7. PeaceBringer (maybe) - That's all I got (and I only noted that last night. well done me)
8. PrideandJoy - Might reconsider this, had Dantown vibes but, on quick ISO-skim to see if I could remember anything specific, I found out chesskid may have been posting more than I thought he was. We'll see, I guess.
9. quadz - already discussed
10. Tammy - Looks different to Red Wedding, carefree.
11. Tierce - I *think* looks different to Red Wedding, also sheeping people who know better than me.

Also, Amrun was one of those I was waiting on and assuming that I'd get a read eventually and I

think

she's just done enough to make me settle on town. But maybe don't quote me on that just yet.

So we're narrowing it down. Now please imagine all of the first-person identification in this post was using "we" because I enjoy the unattainable mystery of it being hard to tell which of us is posting.

Why bother posting a reads list if it's going to be stack of waffles?

The question of the premise doesn't even make sense. I have no idea how what I would do would generate towncred in the first place. I did it simply because it was my natural reaction and as an attempt to read Zdenek.

Your natural reaction thus far this game has been defense of not getting too screamy.
Why do you think this moment generated screams if it was not faked? I know it was your "natural reaction" and all...but it doesn't seem to gel with your other "natural reactions" in this thread, yeah?

I think it gels just fine with my other reactions, and even if it doesn't, my job is not to have my reactions "gel." That's something I might be more concerned about as scum, tbf.

[Amrun]

Forget to tell mod v/la over (every) weekend, my bad

[Amrun]

I probalby should have declared v/la this whole week but I was trying to be GOOD and shit. Catch up tonight.

[Amrun]

Back from my weekend etc, and I have so much to catch up on here. I got sick and fell asleep on friday on my brief window to catch up here. Lame. Sorry.

[Amrun]

Oh, shit, was that a hammer?

it's unfortunate because I did not want to lynch thor, but it's fortunate because I have time to catch u properly and non-rushing. <3

[Amrun]

I had a townread on Thor, and I wanted to lynch PnJ. That said, my reads are outdated as I have so much material to catch up on.

[Amrun]

And if I had a townread on Thor before, I have a super townread on him now from his posts this page. Whee!

[Amrun]

Tone + cockiness. He can be cocky as any alignment, but I just get dem ~good vibes~ from him this game. This page, for example, is very indignant in a way I find townish.

[Amrun]

Well, shit, my vote needs to be productive.

VOTE: ooba

Preferable vote out of leading wagons.

[Amrun]

Err, possibly.

Honestly, I'm p sure you're town, so I'll throw you a bone while I make a mad dash to catch up and probably fail cuz got class soon.

VOTE: garruk

[Amrun]

Why Amrun though?

- Des

Amrun is the lesser of the two, but I've had a gut scum read on her since the beginning of the game(I've mentioned this as well). As well, the faces on the Amrun train engender more hope to me than the faces on ooba at the moment. I know Amrun-scum lurks a lot more than town-Amrun, and, well, she's lurking hard this game(V/LA excuse time has run out).

@Tierce: Once, only.

Do your homework. Life is eating me up and spitting me out right now, and it's felt in every game -- modded games, all played games. It's completely alignment irrelevant. It's unfortunate, and it sucks, and it SHOULD be set to improve here after I am not sick anymore. My back is finally doing pretty good but I have a fever and have been awake roughly 4 collective hours today. That's not important; what's important is that this post is scummy.

This is a lazy push that feels like an under-the-cuff attempt to discredit the flash wagon on you yesterday where kanye is irreproachable.

PnJ still scummy. "Oh, Amrun's always scum." Puh-leaze.

[Amrun]

Woops.

VOTE: garruk

[Amrun]

So, garruk, let me get this straight. You're voting me for "lurking," when it's CLEARLY not alignment indicative, while you yourself have zero reads and have consciously decided to "lurk it out?" You're relying on figuring out the setup and yet have too much respect for the mods to wifom the setup, and took a back seat in the largely setup-grounded argument about Thor yesterday?

No. No. Kill this. This is called scum non-committal disease.

[Amrun]

Because I don't trust desp.

I don't trust agar.

discuss

I don't trust agar a lot. I liked his "thor and me are similar players" thing but i didn't really like anything else.

where were you yesterday in the last hours of the day round. why are you voting amrun? why are you not trusting messiah? can we plz discuss some of our reads and see where we are at?

i'm voting amrun cos she's probably scum + for thor.
i don't trust messiah because he's messiah. i like him better now.
sure! when i sync up with elli.

You're voting me for "lurking," when it's CLEARLY not alignment indicative,

yeah?
seems kinda alignment indicative.

If you LITERALLY think it has anything to do with alignment, and are not just bullshitting, then you probably need your head checked. That's your own fucking problem. Sometimes, it's not so obvious. This time it's OBVIOUS and cross-games of all alignments including modded games. You're reaching at straws -- why resort to that? Don't you have ANY other better reads? Who else is scum? Your reasoning on messiah is also really scant/ completely non-existent.

Why am I "probably scum?"

Fred, if you're voting me because you "need more out of me" rather than thinking I am scum, you should probably re-evaluate your vote. I'm going to do my best but it's my standard weekend v/la and I'm still in "sleep 18 hours a day because very sick" mode, so I'm not making any promises. I have hope since things are improving, and I'll certainly check the thread and post things as they occur to me, but an actual catch up probably can't happen until Tuesday-ish, by which time I'll probably want to rip my head off less. I forgot my keys today, and my schoolwork, and was babbling -- I can't even handle real life yet. I'll be surprised if I read this later and it's coherent, to be frank. Unfortunately, this is my best right now.

So am I scum or are you pressure voting me? Which is it?

[Amrun]

Okay, I have some questions for people to try and get my bearings here:

Garruk: how is my post anything like mollie's? And "voting" is a metaphorical "suspect," sorry about that.

Tammy: Why CAN'T messiah and Tierce be scum together? They both seem fairly scummy to me.

Zdenek and Cephrir feel town to me. Kanye still super town. Macmollie fairly town.

I agree with Zdenek re: fruit vendor. I do t see how that's any different than a scum fruit vendor would have behaved. I think that action is pretty null in context.

PnJ still scummy. Nautilus scummy. Garruk scummy but idk, somehow feeling less scummy on that than I was like earlier today?! Not sure why. That one post I referred to earlier came off townish I guess.

VOTE: nautilus

Gonna go with my gut here. >.>

[Amrun]

In the above, I mean "joat with a fruit vendor ability," for clarification.

[Amrun]

weepsiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I left my computer cord at home for the weekend by accident. (Well, half of it, which is just as prohibitive as leaving the entire computer.) I was sick and v/la anyway, so no great loss here. Still have EPIC PLANZ to devote the entirety of my day tomorrow to this game, so no real loss here except not staying current through the weekend -- catch up still on schedule.

I am still sick, but I'm more in bronchitis/ear infection land now, which means my mental faculties still exist, so it's all good as far as this is concerned.

V excited about spyrex.

[Amrun]

Yeah, I know -- I deserve it!

Before I collapse asleep, anyone care to weigh in whether they'd like a humongous note dump in a spoiler and then a condensed version afterward or just the condensed version because no one will read it anyway? I don't care either way, but I'll probably do the former left to my own devices. I find preferences vary among playerlists.

[Amrun]

My note dumps tend to be quote stripes... which are a bitch to read, I know. But I spoil them and then summarize outside of spoiler.

[Amrun]

I said I'd catch up Tuesday, and I've literally re-arranged my schedule to make it so I have nothing else to do but catch up on this game. All frustration is understood and warranted, but I am doing my best. I don't expect that to be any help to anyone, so be mad all you want, it's fine.

[Amrun]

Approx halfway done - taking a break for dinner. Just a little status update.

[Amrun]

Alfred, why is kanye's activity relevant to his alignment?

[Amrun]

Whgen did people have interest in kanye?

[Amrun]

I always ask questions, and they always have a point. In RC's recent completed "Chosen Mafia," OMGL criticized me for pointless questions when the question had an OBVIOUS fucking point, and more to the point, scared scum enough that they NKed me n1. The point of my question was that a scum player was treating OMGL as chosen, so if OMGL was chosen, that player was scum, and if that player flipped scum, OMGL was chosen. OMGL flipped chosen, no one lynched the obviously scum player after my death, town lost. No one "saw the point" of my question.

I get this every fucking game. I'm kind of sick of it.

[Amrun]

And I'm still working, yes. It takes a long time. That's why it has been difficult to do, because finding a large enough chunk of time to sit down and do this is near impossible.

[Amrun]

I'm not saying that to complain, and if you think I am complaining about a previous game as well, you probably need your reading comprehension checked, but whatever.

I will happily enjoy this game once I am caught up. The only thing I don't enjoy about it is being not-caught-up.