A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Tammy]

VOTE: Alfred Borden

I liked Hurricane Hodor better :/

I'm so lonely.

I need a hero

Tierce do we get to be town together again?

Hopped up on coffee right now so weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Tammy]

Oh look at Kanye....so much strength and forcefulness.

If I were a weak woman I'd swoon.

But, I'm a badass, so I'll just stand in admiration and

VOTE: prideandjoy

choo choo

[Tammy]

Tammy, this is a very important question, are you a badass woman?

I am, but that is not an invitation for you to go around peeking on me at night again, you creeper!

[Tammy]

Yes, my goal of this game is to watch you be targetted by Other Actions all night long.

I knew it!

[Tammy]

Oh such strength. The hand?

But seriously Ben hope all is well.

I liked Hurricane Hodor better :/

(You should watch the movie. You'll change your mind, promise.)

Also, would you judge me if I said kanye made me swoon?

A little. But I'm accustomed to men weaker than me, so ill get over it.

[Tammy]

Mind explaining the vote then?

*rolls magic 8 ball*

"Ask again later."

Thief.

[Tammy]

Are you just voting for PnJ because Kanye is?

No.

Mind explaining the vote then?

Why didn't you pose this line of questioning to me?

[Tammy]

Prideandjoy you're not going to be winning any tourneys with those types of posts. We value strength around here.

[Tammy]

God damnit! This is like mod-enforced punishment. I'll just wait until a hunky man makes himself known to me.

OMG!!!

LOL!!!

A...human male?

You better not get in my way though. This is just a warning.

[Tammy]

I will not outguess the mod. I will not outguess the mod. I will not outguess the mod.

[Tammy]

Tierce, why so aggressive?

Aggressive

is

my default mode. I could bring in puppies if it makes you feel better, though. Empire's Town, Tammy might be Town, I'm ready to roll this game and already irked by the posting spree because I need to leave for a few hours. The hypocrite bit was referring to

me

, though, in case you're wondering.

Tammy is happy as fuck town. I've been looking forward to this game for months, being scum would have ruined it.

Empire - I'm leaning town on tierce, yes? Also I've done one shot.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Andrius

No godless man may sit the seastone chair.

Why randomly vote? It's page 4 now. There's enough content to be able to vote a player now.

Speaking of which,

Vote: Kanye

. Pushing too aggressively for a wagon that no one has explained and is ultimately fruitless in discussion. And he needs to explain things.

-SSK

This is pretty much what I would expect from kanye as town in the first few pages of the game.

[Tammy]

Well I mean I figured some people could have chosen grey wind, or ghost, lord blood raven in his current form, or one of the dragons. None old be eligible. Maybe for you I guess, but I have more discerning taste :p

[Tammy]

Okay so I'm thinking shadoweh might be town. I doubt shed attempt to get with tierce if she were scum unless she knew that tierce would choose a female anyway and was doing it for show, but then it would be kinda silly because there'd be no way that anyone would know why she was making those hints unless she caught onto what I was referring to in my first posts but then that would just be kinda convoluted and silly and im kinda worried we can't both be town, but then it would also be booville for us not to be, and I'm out guessing the mod which I definitely shouldn't be.

Actiondan can you hurry up and get your ass in here and tell me what shadoweh's alignment is? Please and thank you.

[Tammy]

Actiondan can you hurry up and get your ass in here and tell me what shadoweh's alignment is? Please and thank you.

k so if you're listening to dan's read on shadoweh that would imply not having a scumread on us
and yet your vote is still parked

hmm

Never implied having a scum read on you.

[Tammy]

Thank you for your guidance. Ill move my vote when I feel like it and when I know what I want to do.

[Tammy]

Okay so I'm thinking shadoweh might be town. I doubt shed attempt to get with tierce if she were scum unless she knew that tierce would choose a female anyway and was doing it for show, but then it would be kinda silly because there'd be no way that anyone would know why she was making those hints unless she caught onto what I was referring to in my first posts but then that would just be kinda convoluted and silly and im kinda worried we can't both be town, but then it would also be booville for us not to be, and I'm out guessing the mod which I definitely shouldn't be.

Actiondan can you hurry up and get your ass in here and tell me what shadoweh's alignment is? Please and thank you.

...wtf is this shit?

It's me descending into madness.

And I need someone to talk to that will just understand, and there's no one right now.

[Tammy]

tell me more zed <3

The hop to the easy role-fishing acccusation, when that's not really what was going on.

I would have had and hard time with Garuk's Elleheathen vote, except that I had a hard time believing that he was being serious in the first place so I'm okay with it.

Tammy, do you really expect anything different from Kanye as scum?

I've never seen kanye as scum, but how he's played is what I would expect from him as town. Pushing on small things early game, faking a strong scum read and pushing a wagon early game to get reactions, is all about what I expect. I don't have any reason to scum read him.

[Tammy]

*glares at Tammy and her alcohol issues*

*pout*

It was a joke. I'm not actually doing shots. It's a school night, what type of teacher do you think I am?

[Tammy]

...but not on a school night :p

[Tammy]

As much as I enjoy clears based on my pre-game precognition powers, I was pretty sure you and Tierce would pick girls, it is part of why I'm mad. Otherwise I'm not sure what you're talking about and it's way too ED1 to elaborate! I am asking about your hunky-doryness on my own behalf.

Idiot the last sentence.

[Tammy]

As much as I enjoy clears based on my pre-game precognition powers, I was pretty sure you and Tierce would pick girls, it is part of why I'm mad. Otherwise I'm not sure what you're talking about and it's way too ED1 to elaborate! I am asking about your hunky-doryness on my own behalf.

Idiot the last sentence.

Dammit. I don't understand. Stupid autocorrect.

[Tammy]

VOTE: elleheathen yeah I am way supercomfy with that wagon. the wight comment reads too much like a slip to ignore this early in the game.

I don't follow.

------------

I'm not sure if I like this Elle wagon. I'm gonna go read something real quick. Please hold.

[Tammy]

I think what she's getting at is the wights was intentional. He was voting for someone who hand t confirmed...therefore a wight. Badumtiss.

Also, it's a upick. In upicks faraday decides roles before alignments. So a scum team of wights is really really low on the possibility scale.

[Tammy]

Meh. I just modded a game with Elle as scum and I'd have to see more posts from her to even come close to being able to read her right now. I think the flavor thing is weird, and maybe it's because I play at a site dedicated to this series so puns and flavor references are the norm and not something that is out of the ordinary. But it seems pretty clear that the mustbeawight reference was something that was clearly thought about, and if she clearly thought about it then it couldn't be a slip, but I don't really take much stock in most of those types of slips anyway.

So, yeah, don't much care for that wagon.

And tierce already stole my thoughts about her not scumhunting and just defending herself. But I just watched her as scum not have trouble fake scumhunting in what I'm pretty sure was her first time as scum. I could easily see that as a personality tell. I've many many times as town said something or pushed a point I thought was good and have people react negatively to it, and me be so shocked that I do nothing but defend myself and sometimes make myself look worse.

But I also don't think much of the quadz wagon. However, he's easy to read, yeah? Empire? I mean I know you guys are voting there, but he doesn't seem off the wall to me?

And syryana if you could get in here and post and let me know if we can set this place on fire, that would be really awesome. Thanks.

Pedit: hmmm...interested in where this amrun thing is going. I liked her saying that she felt he same way I felt upon seeing her role pm. Am I being a sucksack? I feel like I'm being a sucksack.

[Tammy]

You're being a sucksack
The far more likely reaction to a role pm in this game is rage

I'm thoroughly amused by my role. I'm also amused that once again in a faraday game, if I choose properly my role will be made public.

[Tammy]

Tammy seems a lot less confident than I remember her being in Experimental Role Mafia where she came in like a fucking screaming banshee. Noted.

Welcome to how I am when I don't have a scum read that I feel confident about. Not only am I sick as shit at the moment, but early day one, hell sometimes all of day one

or entire game

, I'm mostly trying to work out the arguments and see what makes sense for me, find town I can work with/have fun with, and go from there.

You're also comparing my early day one play to me replacing into a game on day three?

[Tammy]

Mine was rage. I chose my character list with certain "natural" roles for them in mind
I was not pleased. *shrug*
I feel this is the more likely reaction because of either this, or not getting first choice

Pedit: Ok so if that's not a buzzword
then....

I got my first choice!

[Tammy]

"Am I supposed to care or something?" That's what you said. That is not not-caring, that is waving a big red flag that says, "LOOK AT ME, I DON'T CARE THAT THERE IS A WAGON ON ME FOR VALID REASONS!! I AM NOT GOING TO ARGUE THEM, OR SCUMHUNT! I'M JUST GOING TO SIT OVER HERE LAUGHING AT PEOPLE AND NOT CARING. OH, AND DID I MENTION I DIDN'T CARE?"

That's how your posts came off to me. This is not something I associate with you as town.

I don't really see this as a thing. I played a game once where someone thought they saw a traitor slip in reference to me and started a wagon on me for it . I completely understood what she thought she saw, but she interpreted my understanding as feigning not caring. This exact argument you're having right now is like a repeat of that one. Sometimes people don't care about early game wagons, sometimes people can even understand why someone would vote them. That's not scummy.

[Tammy]

tammy - fair nuff. I don't put a ton of stock in my meta of players, but I just remember you being confident to the point of obnoxiousness. It stuck out in my head so felt it was worth mentioning. Plus, wanted to see what your response to being called out on it was.

p-edit: Tierce, you're just basing that on my use of the word noted? I feel much less awful now.

I was really really confident tierce was scum that game. I am obnoxious when I have a scum read that I feel that strongly about. Unfortunately, or fortunately for other players, I don't have real strong reads every game, and its rarer to happen day one, especially this early. (I also spent quite a bit of time waffling then too. I think amrun and fairie lord were ready to rip my head off.)

[Tammy]

PrideandJoy (3) - elleheathen,

Tammy

, Amrun

I read 3 pages.

It is now page 12.

Why is this vote here?

bbl

Don't know where I want to move it to. Why are you so concerned about that particular vote if you don't care? And if this is Dan, why are you concerned about that vote in particular if you've only read three pages?

And if this is Dan, please to be reading shadoweh before I spiral myself into insanity.

[Tammy]

I'm guessing Andrius isn't the man of my dreams either >_>

Not human so, not mine either. >_>

[Tammy]

What did you think about him making a meta reference concerning me and the difference in behavior in his experience?

Also, do you have a read on shadoweh yet?

I'm going to just stop worrying about this shadoweh thing (yeah right ha!) as I just remembered that faraday once put two flavor cops on the innocent team, so it's not out of the realm of possibility were both still town. And I guess she could not even be hinting at what she's hinting, but that would be weird. So, I'm going to try to reread when I get home from work today while not focusing on this and going nuts.

[Tammy]

I hereby declare I agree with everything in Marmpire's Post 353 (also it's not cool when you say the things I was thinking because then I have nothing original to come in here and say and what will the children think?)

VOTE: ooba

Also also any male human who is being swayed by the fiery temptress should probably know that you belong with me

[Tammy]

If something convincing comes along I may move my vote, but everything else I have is pretty insubstantial and gut-based at this point.

good to see we're not the only ones

It's an epidemic!

[Tammy]

oh actually

VOTE: stupendousman

[Tammy]

Tammy / Shadoweh's whole FIND ME A MAN BIT is mostly ignorable, but the fact that they both seem to be softing the same thing is interesting.

hence my spiraling madness, which is probably super silly anyway, but still.

[Tammy]

Nameclaim: Casso, King of the Seals

Not a human. Damn.

-------

Shadoweh, you're not supposed to find my torment hilarious. Just sayin.

[Tammy]

If she was suspicious of me don't you think she'd be voting me? Or being a little less playful? If it were me I would have ended that video by BOILING YOUR BLOOD FOR YOUR INSOLENCE! I've already picked my bot-toy though so hands off or we're gonna have a slapfight here.

I wish people would townread me for being snippy. I disbelieve in passive aggressiveness being a towntell.

Bot-toy? You were allowed to choose from robots? Wait there are robots? What book are you reading?

[Tammy]

I think what she's getting at is the wights was intentional. He was voting for someone who hand t confirmed...therefore a wight. Badumtiss.

Also, it's a upick. In upicks faraday decides roles before alignments. So a scum team of wights is really really low on the possibility scale.

This is such a weird defense of Elleheathen. What were you thinking?

That elle made an obvious joke that was misunderstood and making false assumptions. See here:

VOTE: elleheathen yeah I am way supercomfy with that wagon. the wight comment reads too much like a slip to ignore this early in the game.

How could that even

be

a slip when I'm talking from the POV of someone else and not even referencing myself but someone that hasn't shown up yet?

He's saying it sounds like you know the scumteam is made up of wights, I believe, when there are essentially infinite possible scumteam themes.

And wights are a thing, in case you aren't aware. They're from the big cold place. I sure do like that place, even though it scares me sometimes.

Therefore, people didn't realize she was making a joke about wights and a deadslot (although cephrir responded he did understand the joke later, so moot)

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

[Tammy]

if andy is faking a posting restriction as scum he won't be the only 1 wanting bodily harm done to him. especially with that claim. reck early breadcrumbed grey wolf in rw (it was why we removed our vote) but then he looked scummy and I thought he was a slamdunk for a lynch but no

doesn't matter. he could *be* greywind here and still not be town.

That said, I think he looks townish here, but I don't trust my abilities to read Andrius. I followed xenologue and he was one of my strongest townreads, but that was on apparently outdated meta from a game I replaced into after he was dead scum, but still.

[Tammy]

Um, hi, one game at a time?

And now I'm going to cry.

I DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY THOUGH.

[Tammy]

You never quote posts of mine

I take it from that wall that there's no juicy townread on chesskid eh?

There might be if you keep behaving so well!

I have a decent town lean on Andy's opening, but it's nothing significant. Maybe I'll feel you will feel more fulfilled by me when I'm voting and pushing scum and things like that?

Hi mollie!

...this is er better?

[Tammy]

@Alfred: "Keep this up" = "I'm leaning town on you because of this".

I understand why Tammy might be suspicious of Shadow but it seems voteworthy. I guess there are possible reasons she wouldn't want to go that far with it, but I can't imagine what else could be going on there (ie with Shadow). This comment is deliberately vague.

I'm not necessarily suspicious of Shadoweh. I'm notoriously bad at reading Shadoweh, especially early game. I'm outguessing the mod and trying to pull myself out of the spiral I put myself in yesterday.

It's why I'd really really like actiondan to show up.

[Tammy]

@Tammy- Care to elaborate on that vote?.

I didn't like your one "content" post.

So, you saw my vote, which means you're reading along, yeah? Any thoughts on the game so far?

[Tammy]

/ego

[Tammy]

I DIDN'T WANT YOU ANYWAY THOUGH.

why not???

because

[Tammy]

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

What do you think of what Tierce and Shadoweh said about this?

Anyway, I don't buy that the mods would have informed the miller about the presence of non-standard cops, so Thor's miller claim looks bogus,
- I'm a miller, but you could still investigate me as town.

Unvote
Vote Thor

Well sure, but I didn't consider at the time what Faraday might name the scum team (s). What I was considering was the charge that the scum team were made up of wights and in that regard the accusation of the slip was ridiculous. The problem is we have no idea of knowing what Faraday is considering not protecting the realm. If we get a flip of a scum team that are the "wights" talk to me then, other than that it looks like a really conscious attempt at a flavor joke, and i don't take that as a slip.

[Tammy]

Although the vote I find on Thor interesting. I don't know if...well I don't put anything past Thor...but I don't know how to really read Thor, or don't think I do, until he gets emotionally invested in a game either by being certain about his reads or his reactions to being pushed.

[Tammy]

Also, people were jumping to claim it being a scum slip that the scum team were made up of wights, which is impossible. Faraday picks roles first in upicks. Then he picks alignments. A wight could be town, while Rob Stark could be scum.

Correct me if I'm wrong--it's been a year or two since I read the novels last--but the wights are essentially zombies, no? Is there not a point where Jon kills a dude and he literally comes back as a wight minutes later? The point being that "Wights" is perfect scum flavor in a UPick game--they look like their character's likeness simply because they are literally them, just frozen-zombie them.

No, you are right, in A Game of Thrones Jon Snow does fight a wight in Castle Black. Who, yes, are essentially zombie-esque. However, there's no indication he would call the scum team the "wights". Why wouldn't he use the others, because that would be way cooler than the wights. He could also have the wildlings working against the realm. He could be using that company that backs the non-Targaryen line. It could be the faceless men or the sorrowful men. It could even be the Lannister family if you took a Varis-esque view of what protecting them realm meant. It could be anything at this point, and I'm not going to outguess the mod on what looks like an intentional flavor joke and call it a scum slip. (If I were going to play out guess the mod, I'd be calling for Shadoweh's head right now.)

~tags fixed

[Tammy]

Dammit.

Help me out Faraday?

Post 407 needs some quote tag fixin.

[Tammy]

Your milkshake's got's nothin on me

[Tammy]

WHAT?!? You dare post milkshake and deny the imagery power of hips?

what is wrong with you?

Besides, you know what I have to offer? Land? whatchagot?

quadz is a bad wagon too by the way, you should join me on the stupendous not gonna post anything real until someone votes me. Ohhhhhh.

[Tammy]

Garruk, that elle wagon is gonna fall apart. Come play on quadz where it's warm and he's stopped posting.

Wait wait wait wait wait a second. Didn't you do this in law vs. evil too? you accused people of "stopping posting" when it was like less than 24 hours than they had actually stopped posting so as to make them look like they were flaking?

Like he hasn't "stopped posting" shadoweh


ACTION DAN GET YOUR PRINCETON JOY OR PRIDE OR WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS ASS IN HERE AND HELP ME SORT OUT SHADOWEH.

~Tags fixed

[Tammy]

I FUCKING SUCK

[Tammy]

Hrm...how I feel about this rising quadz wagon:

[Tammy]

unvote vote quadz

You town Nauti?

he actually might be!

VOTE: quadz

that was me

And you, didn't you ask goat if they were town because if you thought they were town they would be helpful? Why even bother if you're just going to wholesale discount their read?

[Tammy]

Hrm...how I feel about this rising quadz wagon:

You like it? I do too.

Buffy furrowed brow does not indicate joy, it indicates disdain and annoyance. I think you are running up town. Care to help me find scum???

[Tammy]

Well, I am not suggesting that since he's a universal miller and that since he's not, he's scum. I am suggesting his claim is bullshit.

The only thing that makes any sense so far, is that he would show up as miller to a role cop, and be town since scum-miller is lolzy. But then why say not regular cop, why not just be clear and say role-cop.

In faradays last upick, my partner was a scum miller.

Roles, then alignments.

[Tammy]

Amrun - I'm on my phone so can't quote, but yes, roles were assigned first then alignments. He says in the second post that roles were assigned first then alignments.

Hi syryana!

[Tammy]

quote stripes!

[Tammy]

I can't really read - but something about the interaction between her and Tammy feels like they're on opposing sides but only between the two,

This suggests they are both third party or Shadoweh is scum, no?

Because I have Tammy as such a strong town read, initially yes, it lead me to believe Shadoweh might be scum. But their whole interaction confuses me (and I have a tendency to overthink things) and wanted a better idea on their flavors and to see what would happen when they found their hunky menz (thought it could be you with the 347 but no response to it from them) but:

And forgive me because

I know

this is going to sounds ridiculously stupid but you asked...

I thought they might be both town with some kind of modifier or role (mentors, lovers, neighbors) where this hunky man could choose between the two and it would somehow alter their role or... something? I only dove into a lot of this speculation because Shadoweh's posts haven't struck me as particularly scummy so I wasn't ready to label her as scum just because of what looks like a similarity in their roles - but haven't ruled it out as a possibility, no.

I'm just on the prowl...reor!

[Tammy]

Syryana.

Are you a human male by chance?

Also are you town?

Don't lie to me

[Tammy]

but are you human?

[Tammy]

just interested.

[Tammy]

I'm so lonely.

I need a hero

[Tammy]

@Tammy

, what do you think of thor?

I don't know how to read Thor this early in the game, if at all. The only way I even think I come close to knowing how to read Thor is seeing how he reacts to being run up and how he reads people.

[Tammy]

eta: -s

Way more exciting than a white knight!

[Tammy]

I don't actually *need* a hero...the song just fit.

I can take care of myself.

But, I'm still lonely.

[Tammy]

But, I'm still lonely.

I'd love to help you, but people die when they get too close to me. I don't want you to get hurt.

HAHAHAHA...If you only knew how ironic that statement was.

[Tammy]

But wait are you saying like you're a pgo or something, or are you just flavoring?

[Tammy]

Syry - why the cephrir vote?

[Tammy]

Hey! On behalf of all princess fluffers everywhere, I demand you change your thinking.

(or you made me chuckle and you know what that means.)

[Tammy]

(Okay it's friday, I am having a glass of wine, but you made me laugh, everyone knows if you make me laugh I think you're town.)

(~t)

[Tammy]

Let the 013ers and 011ers do their thing.

Apparently the 12ers are chopped liver

[Tammy]

I can pretty much assure you that Tierce is town in this game

Can you assure me with Tammy as well? I don't think I need it, but it's nice to be reassured.

[Tammy]

Okay I think Benmage is probs town. I know he's warned me of town reading him this early, but I'm having a hard time accepting him getting caught up in this argument in the way he has as scum.

[Tammy]

i haven't gotten there yet, give me a minute!

[Tammy]

I didn't realize by saying that my slightly oddball role strongly indicated I was town when I invited any non-regular cop to check and confirm me as town.

How would confirming you "role" confirm your alignment?

I know someone said they had a game with a Miller scum (and speaking of mods that need to be slapped...then again, I've been traitor in a game where that was the VT PM...again, speaking of mods that need to be slapped) .
That said, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that's non-standard. The basic premise of a Miller is that it's a town role. Just like with my traitor town gak - just because it has happened does not mean it's worth touting out as remotely the way things happen 99% of the time.
I also believe my alignment is verifiable if there is a non regular cop that can verify alignment some way.
Also, your case is pretty dumb, there's that too
"Oh, Thor thinks his role makes him town, unlike all other PR role claims in existence, oh, oh, oh! I'm so experienced, but apparently this is a shocking and new thing to me!"

that was me and it was *this* mod. My partner was a scum miller in his last upick. She didn't claim because she thought it was suspicious. Faraday wondered why she didn't claim because a scum miller was pretty funny. It's a product of upicks though. Roles, then alignments.

[Tammy]

it doesn't have a purpose. but in upicks, roles are assigned to characters, they might not make sense for alignments purposes but are kept after alignments are decided.

[Tammy]

P-edit: above applies to you too Thor

My vote is pretty awesome right where it is - even if you think Benmage is town what makes that read so awesome as to make my vote suck?
His case on me is pretty nonexistent for the strength of it, easily justifying my reaction to it.
What do you see that I'm missing?

I *think* he's responding in kind to your statement that you'd be fine with him dying...as in saying he's fine with you dying too?

[Tammy]

Messiah's entrance is kinda scummy for me, don't care for the note formatting as they don't feel like how a townie would keep their notes, but I do agree with their vote and assessment of SM. Why no special mention of Garuk if one of your heads is apparently scumreading half their posts- just because that head isn't the one posting?

How would a townie keep notes? I read through the game and mentioned posts that leaned one direction or the other.

Pretty much yeah.

How often has that been your approach to a game as town?

Also your recent interaction with Thor is really really scummy. You don't care for his playstyle so you're just shutting down completely? Grow up.

*snerk* I think his response was pretty mature...way more than mine when dealing with playstyles I hate.

[Tammy]

also syrlacious is an awsum town player when he is scum he like disappears and does nothing but troll. that's all I have seen so far.

I am removing alfred from the nice pile. alfred, mebbe you can explain what tammy was asking in that post cos I have no fucking idea. I mean I asked goat if he was town yeah? how did that turn into me dismissing his saying he was town? idgi

and sometimes syry lurks like motherfucker when town and trolls.

as far as your question to empire regarding my statement to you...you had asked goat if they were town and stated if they were they were helpful, which suggested to me that you were looking to work with them and take their reads into account. One of the stronger reads they gave was that quadz was town, but you voted quadz, which didn't make sense to me in light of what looked like you attempting to work with someone, so to me it looked like you attempting to make a reach out you didn't actually mean and felt off.

[Tammy]

Someone asked my read on Tammy. Have you

looked

at me? I have barely read the game so far.


LLAMARBLE your Amrun Townread needs explaining.

I'm guessing this is what you meant macmollie? Tierce and I are historically a little more tentative about giving reads on each other so early. In the past we've had trouble reading each other, but have gotten better at it recently especially early game and especially after being scum partners twice in a row.

She'll read me as town though, especially after seeing empire not being concerned.

The only thing I'm concerned with is the amrun scum read. I mean I get where the source is from, but it looks like typical amrun to me, so I'm not getting the over scummy vibes.

[Tammy]

we are on our honeymoon thank you very much.

[Tammy]

we are on our honeymoon thank you very much.

This is why, Thor.

Great sex >>>>>>> case on ceph-scum

[Tammy]

One game at a time, yeah?

[Tammy]

oh well if that last game is just a point you're making or something but i don't know who karnage is.

[Tammy]

Post 741 who is the karnage person you're talking to and why?

[Tammy]

OH. OHKAY.

Don't mind me.

HONEYMOOON.

all stupidity is forgiven, yeah?

[Tammy]

not as happy with sylacious as you but he and tammy are married so that will sort itself out.

Syry and I talked quite a bit in the neighborhood last night; I feel pretty comfortable calling him town.

[Tammy]

i hope to gget backA TO this tonight, but kitten! (who's helpiNG=----- BY THE WAY) and i've a test to \write.
i$RE>y76

yeah i could fix it up but ^ he helped awwwwweeeee.5wsaqsz

he tried to type swag!

[Tammy]

tammy that is adorable

stop it

It wasn't so adorable when I tried to write an exam and he laid on my keyboard and then looked up at me like "how dare you". Okay yeah that was really adorable too, but took me twice as long to finish the exam.

----------

I'll get caught up here tomorrow. It's late and this kitten is demanding. and a kitten!

Oh but I meant to mention this earlier. Yesterday I mentioned to Syry in the neighborhood that I was leaning town on Elleheathen and he responded that it made sense since that was nacho and I had already said I was leaning town on Nacho. I had to correct him who Nacho was, so it is a plausible slip.

And Empire - You're a mean troll. I'm awesome

[Tammy]

Holy wall wars 2013!

[Tammy]

Do people really believe that Thor is scum? I don't have much experience playing with him, but he did school me in my first newbie game. He doesn't seem to be acting the way he did in that game, where he came out the gate at full tilt and was putting people on their heels to start with. I am not getting the same vibe I was in that game at all. I would firmly put him as town, and those who are still pushing this ill advised and misshapen train on him should reevaluate their positions.

Do you really only have on e game of scum experience with Thor and you feel comfortable enough calling him firmly town and calling people to get off that wagon or reconsider their opinions?

Can you explain the strength of this read?

[Tammy]

^ in a little more detail than "vibe"?

[Tammy]

I'm not really sure. I'd love it if someone more familiar could tell me how Thor plays scum.

His scum game and his town game are quite similar. We talked about it once in a game, and he said that he's worked to keep his meta similar between games.

I think there are slight differences or at least I think I do, but we'll see! Maybe one game I'll even be right.

[Tammy]

Syry and I talked quite a bit in the neighborhood last night; I feel pretty comfortable calling him town.

Care to share some of the insights that led to that?

I liked the way he discussed his reads with me. He was pretty open with his thoughts in a way I think he'd be less likely to do as scum. He made me laugh and told me he was obvtown so he's obvtown! Huzzah!

[Tammy]

Cephrir - How often on day one of a large do you do full reads lists?

[Tammy]

syry+tammy wedding thingy is interesting; to be discussed later, probably

I was basically a one-shot neighborizer but could only neighborize a human male. The wedding part is role flavor.

[Tammy]

MacTammyTierceEmpireThorNastyrashaNacho vote this with me pls

Maybe later, I'm hunting

wabbits

cats. Also, you could have done way better than Tammy. Way to suck.

Just wanted to reiterate that you're mean. Oh hey, you're so mean, here's a song about you being mean

[Tammy]

Hey!

[Tammy]

Cephrir - How often on day one of a large do you do full reads lists?

Based on the larges I've played since returning to the site, always.

My dislike of read lists is a recent development and I haven't figured out how to not do them yet.

Okay. You didn't do one in the mini we just played so I was trying to gauge what is normal for you.


------------

In other news I'm caught up but that doesn't mean anything special. I need to reread the game as I just didn't really digest much of what was said. I won't have time to really do that before a couple days though.

My town reads still stand as Alfred, nautilus, syry, mollie, tierce with weaker reads on benmage, elleheathen and quadz. There are some other people I feel like I should have a better handle on at this point but a couple have been caught up in wall debates and I always need more time to parse through those.

Still don't have any great scum reads and I'm starting to rethink my stupendous scum read but I need to think about that. Syry is trying to get me to vote safetydance and well see about that, but I want to go back and read his play in the wire and check out a scum game first. Empire and I did a bit of a meta dive on him in the wire, but I can't remember any of his markers, so ill have to do that again.

Yeah this is largely unhelpful but I feel like a lot of this game is just passing me by but I hope to fix that this weekend, that or someone can just wake me up day two and let me know if I need to reset my entire thinking due to multiball or continue on this path. /whining

Pedit

[Tammy]

Cephrir - in your reads list, you have me listed as null with the reasoning being that I'm not scum hunting. If I'm not scum hunting, why do you have me as a null read and not a scum read?

-cant quote cuz on phone at work but this just struck me and I didn't want to forget to ask.

[Tammy]

@Tammy - so...discussing reads makes him town? Isn't that sort of scum 101 in a Neighborhood?

No, it's hard to explain because its illogical (ha!) but ill give it a whirl. It's mostly just a general feeling based on experience with syry. We've been scum partners before and he got caught out pretty quickly by nacho day one. He hasn't shown any concern of that happening again and although he has a pretty good scum game, he like most people has a sense of awkwardness around people who can read him well. I *think* he's only been scum once since then so I don't see him getting over that so quickly. We've also hydrad together and the way he's talking to me about his reads is what I would expect from a town him. I mean I guess you could say that since he's hydrad with me, he'd know what I would expect but it feels very fluid and spontaneous. I'm not getting a sense of calculation there. So from what I've seen thus far, I feel pretty good about him.

[Tammy]

I hope you're trolling. Otherwise you are really bad at telling them apart.

And if you are trolling, what you've done re: mollie (see: nothing) is a spectacular waste of time.

I find it spectacularly awesome and ironic that you're taking me to task for doing nothing and wasting time, Tierce.

Ouch. Is gallantry dead in Loki's Landing? Does a lady have to take the first step? Don't tell me Lady Tammy would be jealous of a dance.

You should understand about spiting Nacho

I do have reads and a good share of them are public, explicitly or implicitly. The question of whether you thought it was actually Mac posting so far (and why) was not rhetorical.

The horrid bonneted vixen doesn't care >_>

[Tammy]

Cephrir - in your reads list, you have me listed as null with the reasoning being that I'm not scum hunting. If I'm not scum hunting, why do you have me as a null read and not a scum read?

-cant quote cuz on phone at work but this just struck me and I didn't want to forget to ask.

You're not doing anything scummy either, you just aren't doing anything at all. That said, it's beginning to annoy me that you don't sound like Cait Sith.

Ouch. I'm not doing nothing though. It's day one of a large with several loud Wally people, which takes me a little longer and more than one reading to parse through. I'm pretty adaptive and tend to be more observant in these types of situations. I'm not going to add my loud voice for no purpose whatsoever when there are enough button pushers around unless something strikes me. Ill get there, it just might not be today. Besides, I pretty much spent all my mafia energy trying to get you not to lynch me in lylo the past couple days. That's draining, and I need to reset. Besides, as I recall cait sith was annoying the fuck out of you lately, are you sure you're annoyed I don't sound like myself from that game

[Tammy]

That's just her posting style

[Tammy]

safetydance

when you get in here can you please explain to me what you believed you were achieving with your reads post?

(Everyone else please leave this alone, I'm only interested in his answer)

[Tammy]

Either way, I hear those divorce proceedings usually take an awfully long time, so I'll get back to you soon.

Nah. It should be over pretty quickly. The land is mine.

[Tammy]

Catching up now from wherever my last post was.

How did that come along?

[Tammy]

Okay so considering joining the safetydance wagon but it depends on how he answers my question I asked and the resulting interaction.

Alfred Bordempire - I think I remember you saying that he was reacting much like he did as town in The Wire. I just read back through his play there last night as well as a couple of his other recent town games, and are you sure about that?

[Tammy]

VOTE: ooba

still think mr. waits until prods says he's catching up and 12 hours later still hasn't AKA safetydance is a good wagon though. AND I still want him to answer my question.

[Tammy]

also you looked at sd's play in the game I linked and even admitted that in that game and this 1 the 2 are very different. so at this point are you still thinking he is scum? cos I am telling you I really think you are wrong.

The game you linked was a scum game, yeah? Is that your only point of reference? Because last night I checked out a few of his town games and a scum game, and I don't see how you can call him town based on so little. In fact his play looks nothing like his town games I read.

I'm figuring he'll be flaking from here soon enough though anyway.

[Tammy]

Alfred Bordempire - I think I remember you saying that he was reacting much like he did as town in The Wire. I just read back through his play there last night as well as a couple of his other recent town games, and are you sure about that?

Well, I reread it again just now + compared it to his play in that game mollie linked. As scum, he just seems really awkward/forced and doesn't really know what to say when confronted with suspicion. The best example of that is #1115 in that game where he just kinda awkwardly tries to shrug off Majiffy's suspicion of him. In The Wire, he stood his ground and confidently addressed what people were saying about him (this post being a really good example). Take a look at how he responds to the ten scums related suspicion brought up against him here -- he addresses it point-blank, sounds completely comfortable in his responses and is not afraid to call people on what he sees as bullshit. I'll look over more games of his when/if I get some time, but I think he's a bad wagon.

I was hoping you'd pick up something in particular with The Wire game and here. There's something really incompatible that's bugging me.

[Tammy]

I was hoping you'd pick up something in particular with The Wire game and here. There's something really incompatible that's bugging me.

Maybe it's because I'm tired or something but I'm really not seeing a difference here. What do you see?

(Still catching up but almost done.)

I'll respond to this if safety dance ever actually does something other than respond to a prod by saying he's catching up and 36 hours later still doesn't actually do anything.

Anyway I asked him a question, and I'd like to see his answer first.

[Tammy]

Mollie - why did him making a reads list make you happy?

And if he mentioned being overwhelmed, what do you make of him not doing anything here?

[Tammy]

Oh hey, safety dance still hasn't posted. So, like 60 hours ago he posted to say "catching up from where I last posted" and hasn't posted since.

So those of you defending him for being town, why? Like, okay he responded flippantly, awesome. Oh wait he gets really overwhelmed when he's scum. And he's not posting. What does that tell you?

Also, because I'm impatient and he's probably not going to answer anyway by this point, here is why I'm kinda fixated on his reads list and why he made it and what he thought he was going to achieve. I was hoping that empire would see this since he said he just read The Wire to compare his attitude, but he didn't or maybe just doesn't see that as interesting as I see it. And here is why I was kinda shocked that mollie was happy that he provided a reads list.

here is how town safety dance feels about reads list In this post, he points out several people who have made some types of reads without reasoning and calls it "Weak as Budwieser reads that do nothing to help with anything. List reads (or whatever you call them) are not proper reads or effective scumhunting. So it's not something you're going to see me throw out there."

When I was looking at The Wire the other night to see if there was a similarity in tone, I came across this. Then I read through several of his more recent games, and in not one of them did I find an immediate reads list like this. Can someone rectify for me how a person can call it not proper or effective scumhunting, not do it in town games, then do it here and it makes people happy? I mean I get the arguments against meta as I used to have them, but when someone has a belief like this and then go against it, it makes me go hmmm. Am I insane or what?

I'll be actually catching up with stuff later and am planning on starting to reread the game tonight. We'll see how that goes.

Oh

Holy wall wars 2013!

Tammy please stop playing like this.

No.

[Tammy]

tammy you are not crazy

was he town or scum that game cos I read the dead players list and the final credits and I can't tell

oh lol. he was town. That game the cops were scum and the gangsters/drug dealers/killers were town.

[Tammy]

No.

Your last post was pretty cool!

All of my posts are pretty cool. Don't h8

[Tammy]

@Tammy

- Did Thor's responses give you any better insight about him at all?

No. Thor hasn't done anything that I don't believe he could conceivably do as either alignment. I like his shift in read on Alfred. The reasoning for it is something that I would expect and have seen him do as town. Some of other people's strong town reads on Thor makes me wonder about their alignment and think that maybe Thor could be town. Basically Thor is behaving as Thor, and I don't know how to really define scum!Thor from town!Thor except in maybe some particular situations that haven't happened yet.

[Tammy]

I could have written half of Tierce's Post 1306. In fact several posts she's made is reflecting how I feel this game up til this point and continues to make me feel better about her alignment. TET

[Tammy]

WAAAAAAIT A MINUTE!!!

I see that as valid logic why Tierce looks scummy.

thor since when have you ever thought any of my logic was valid? name 1 other time in a game that you ever thought that something I said was valid or had anything to do with logic much less have any merit to it? in fact that is the whole reason as to why you always want to pl me and why we fight it is cos you say you can never understand a single thing I say. you're scum aren't you? oh god that is why you have been so civil isn't it?

VOTE: thor

no wonder the game is feeling so off there is a rotten apple trying to worm their way into town's core.

omg. wow. I think you're more paranoid than I am...though my paranoia doesn't kick in usually until day 3 or so. But what you need is a touch stone. Though you're a hydra, so you should have some of that, but I get it. But sometimes we just need something solid to believe in. I'm town; let's try to make sense of this shit.

[Tammy]

Alfred Bordempire - I think I remember you saying that he was reacting much like he did as town in The Wire. I just read back through his play there last night as well as a couple of his other recent town games, and are you sure about that?

Well, I reread it again just now + compared it to his play in that game mollie linked. As scum, he just seems really awkward/forced and doesn't really know what to say when confronted with suspicion. The best example of that is #1115 in that game where he just kinda awkwardly tries to shrug off Majiffy's suspicion of him. In The Wire, he stood his ground and confidently addressed what people were saying about him (this post being a really good example). Take a look at how he responds to the ten scums related suspicion brought up against him here -- he addresses it point-blank, sounds completely comfortable in his responses and is not afraid to call people on what he sees as bullshit. I'll look over more games of his when/if I get some time, but I think he's a bad wagon.

But please read the post in which I talk about his reads posts stuff and look at the fact that he's prod dodging flaking and tell me what you think. Like I really hoped that you'd catch that post I caught when you read the wire but you didn't and so I'm pretty bummed out.

[Tammy]

Okay so the reading the Goat as scum because CDB wasn't as a strong scum reader as Red Wedding is unfair. His play here is reminiscent of his play in The Wire where he didn't have really strong scum reads immediately and wasn't even a strong presence until day two and even then it was inconsistent, so using one game against them is pretty bunk. Plus, that whole line about eating humble pie or whatever read really town.

[Tammy]

Eh, Goat on a Raft is still scum, but that's not going anywhere.

I just looked at this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5342787

Typical scum ISO - cast suspicion willy-nilly and then lurk and do nothing, so let's try this.

Vote: Amrun

i think it's a site-wide issue though

[Tammy]

We can vote if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
Cuz your friends aren't town and if they aren't town
Well they're no friends of mine

VOTE: safetydance

[Tammy]

First thing firsts looking at recent VC and 3 days to go ~ I am happy to join the Thor wagon, I agree with Benmage's 518 and D1 is the only optimal time to do so.

Vote: Thor665

Your first spat of posts come after Benmages post, why didn't you agree with it and get on that wagon then?

Also, are you just not reading the game full stop or actively ignoring the questions people are asking you?

[Tammy]

whee it's the weekend

i'm here
I fucking LOVE our position on the ooba wagon though
2nd vote
man that's sweet
so probably not moving the vote
(also he struck me as scum so)

Going to selectively read because I'm a lazy asshole and I don't like reading ~40? pages of shit i haven't read. ANything important I should make sure to read?

Please read shadoweh?

[Tammy]

Not in quite that fashion, no.

I'm not saying it makes you scum, only that it puzzles me.

In what fashion do you mean?

[Tammy]

^other head

[Tammy]

Not in quite that fashion, no.

I'm not saying it makes you scum, only that it puzzles me.

In what fashion do you mean?

I've seen "I think X is scum", "No he's totally town".

Not so much "here's a reasonably well thought out case on why X is scum", "No he's totally town". It's kinda like... are you even talking to each other?

Ah okay, that makes sense. I was kinda confused.

[Tammy]

I assume you're asking about my read on you, so I'll answer accordingly.

Yes, I do have a reason. See this post for exhibit A.

That post is pure town paranoia. Ill gift you a couple horses if she's scum who decided to come up with a totally outlandish reason for why Thor is scum.

[Tammy]

Tammy tammy tammy.. smh... When you gonna evolve past low hanging fruit for D1?

You're better than this.

Thank you.

But, sometimes fruit hangs low because it's rotten. It's not like I don't think he has the capability of looking town, I read through a few of his games, he does. He's not here.

[Tammy]

This is pretty compelling. Also, tone in this post suggests to me that Tammy may be town.

Really? because that case is based on meta from about 2 months after SD joined the site.

Well I also went back and looked through several of his more recent games to see if it was something that he stopped believing in, but I didn't find anything to suggest a difference in style.

[Tammy]

Shadoweh, I call on the power of friendship to make you change your vote Ooba. Or shall I regale you with a friendship speech?

Not until he claims! Besides all my other friends are here and we're being cool together. And Tammy did the safety dance. You've gotta step it up!
Jesus why aren't you making jokes about how we should totally get married yet. READ THE GAME.

We can dance if we want to!

Awaiting safety dances after dinner post!

[Tammy]

People will probably believe that more than a

JOAT

again.

Wow, this game is just like the last one.

That was a breadcrumb for all the meta-whores.

Awesome. Sweet. Awesome.

Except claims don't save anyone. You could totally be a scum JOAT.

Do you have any, oh i don't know, actual thoughts about the game?

[Tammy]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

[Tammy]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Okay. What did you think you were accomplishing with your introductory reads post and why did you make it?

[Tammy]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Is there a reason you're not actually playing the game?

[Tammy]

Yeah you can hang. I don't care what your alignment is.

[Tammy]

here is how town safety dance feels about reads list In this post, he points out several people who have made some types of reads without reasoning and calls it "Weak as Budwieser reads that do nothing to help with anything. List reads (or whatever you call them) are not proper reads or effective scumhunting. So it's not something you're going to see me throw out there."

So, safetydance. When did you decide that throwing out reads lists wasn't a piece of crap you wouldn't throw out there.

AND and and, when in any game did you think you had to throw out full blown reads on everyone, because I've looked at your games and you don't express that need anywhere.

[Tammy]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Okay. What did you think you were accomplishing with your introductory reads post and why did you make it?

I was planning my mislynches ahead.

Cheeky.

[Tammy]

here is how town safety dance feels about reads list In this post, he points out several people who have made some types of reads without reasoning and calls it "Weak as Budwieser reads that do nothing to help with anything. List reads (or whatever you call them) are not proper reads or effective scumhunting. So it's not something you're going to see me throw out there."

So, safetydance. When did you decide that throwing out reads lists wasn't a piece of crap you wouldn't throw out there.

AND and and, when in any game did you think you had to throw out full blown reads on everyone, because I've looked at your games and you don't express that need anywhere.

FYI, 1440 is the poster-child for why meta is completely fucking useless.

I don't understand the logic of applying a standard-defined way of how people will play everything game now matter what, nor how it makes sense that they'll never appear to contradict themselves or play the exact same way, so you'll have to explain that one post-game.

Oh so you were reading along and were just ignoring the game and not playing. Sweet.

And the thing is I asked you a question about it because beliefs held like this tend to be standard. I was trying to understand your mindset and get a handle on your alignment. Instead of answering the question, which you should be able to do but apparently can't, you're acting like a petulant scum child.

So,

H-h-h-h-A-a-a-a-N-n-n-n-G-g-g-g

[Tammy]

THERE IS NO BROW-BEATING; YOU ARE NOT PLAYING THE DAMN GAME.

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, IF YOU'D ACTUALLY PLAY INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE YOUR TOO GOOD TO DO A DAMN THING THERE WOULDN'T BE A WAGON ON YOU.

GODS.

[Tammy]

Oh you mean you not doing a damn thing, not answering the questions asked and you just being a cheeky petulant scummy fuck is us confirmation biasing?

I don't care what you are. Good fucking riddance.

[Tammy]

Look fool. There is no case in point. I asked you a question about your reads list a million years ago because I was trying to figure you out. You refused to actually answer the question so that I could figure anything out, and instead come out with some superior ass bs about blah blah blah stupid bullshit blah blah blah.

I don't know what slimer mafia is. Is that one instance where as town you used reads list? OMG do you mean you could have answered my fucking original question and told me that you changed your beliefs or you do it sometimes? Is that what slimer mafia means? Why can't you act like a fucking normal human being and just answer questions in way that isn't cheeky as a scum fuck petulant little child?

Because it seems pretty damn easy to me. And if you want to know why I'm yelling, it's because you're acting like a fucking jack ass.

[Tammy]

Or feel like answering any of the questions posed to you or did you think prod-dodging, right catching up with the thread, oh let's policy lynch is going to cut it for some reason?

There's

a lot

of talk and questions. Like 1500+ posts.

You're going to have to be a bit more specific right now.

Okay. What did you think you were accomplishing with your introductory reads post and why did you make it?

I was planning my mislynches ahead.

This answer? Oh forgive me. I'm a fucking dumbass for getting irritated that you wouldn't answer my question. Dumb me.

[Tammy]

Whatever, I'm done. I have papers to grade and obviously safeftydance isn't going to actually engage in the game and is instead just going to troll or whatever he's doing.

[Tammy]

Gods I hope you flip scum because if this is your town game, or if this is what you think mafia is, I'm just going to scream.

[Tammy]

It was not based off of one game. And I very clearly stated I played in that game with him and empire and I meta dived for him in that game. Considering that I vigged his slot after he replaced out, I'm pretty sure I played in that damn game. And it wasn't based off one game. It struck me as odd, so I asked about it and presented it AFTER reading through his other games to see if his opinion changed and to geta handle on his alignment. But apparently I'm just not speaking English this game because I think that should be pretty damn clear. Especially since I continued to ask him about it and asked if I was nuts for my being bothered by the change. But apparently people don't know how to have fucking conversations anymore.

Whatever I'm going to bed and will deal with this tomorrow.

UNVOTE: I still think its a good wagon though. If were going to policy lynch someone for a miller claim, I don't know why were all no can't policy kynch someone who's refusing to actually play the game and decides to be cheeky and dodgy when he does show up.

And Ben leave me alone. Stop it with your talking down to me evolution bullshit. It's not even close to the way to get me to join the wagon you want me on. And I was not tunneling on him in the first place, I asked him questions to try to figure out his damn alignment. This isn't even close to what it looks like when I tunnel.

All right my sleeping pill is kicking in, so I don't have time to do much more but tierce, I can't look through faradays games, but in the player upick faraday ran at westeros, my partner was a scum miller. She never claimed and faraday wondered why not because scum millers were funny. Most members of the scum team had low use roles though. But yes, faraday does use millers. Don't have time to see if he used them here though, but I will look until I crash on my iPad.

[Tammy]

No miller used in mafiascum upick fantasy camp.

[Tammy]

roles came before alignments

Incorrect. This is a wrongful assumption in many uPicks.

Characters came before alignment. Role design may have partially come before alignment, but it's even stated in the rules it may have suffered alterations afterwards. Go look at Vi's Maf.Xenologue for an example. There was a Town and a scum version of Soren in case our slot had rolled scum; Vi kept the idea and revealed it in the postgame.

So no, I don't think he's a Town miller in a Faraday game.

And that's a flavor miller, Shadoweh. Very different thing, Faraday likes flavor/vanilla/goon cops. Because that's the kind of role that doesn't get absolutes.

It literally says in the third post of the game that roles came before alignments. This is the third faraday upick I've played in, and he assigned roles first in each one of them and then after assigning alignments tweaked any if necessary for balance.

[Tammy]

Well you're voting him so I would hope you think so! I'm going to sleep and won't be back likely, but I did say something about choo choo trains. I really hope someone comes up with something better then he miller'd though cause he'll probably have other role powers to go with it?

##Vote: Thor

honk honk

This is probably true. My partner was a miller who also had a limited heal ability.

[Tammy]

I think Thor and SD are town. Thor is a stronger townread than SD, though. So I would only vote SD at deadline, but I still like the ooba wagon. Thor, I believe you asked me why, and the answer to that is too many of ooba's posts are defending himself or making weak cases. Pretty much what AGar said a while back.

UNVOTE: I still think its a good wagon though. If were going to policy lynch someone for a miller claim, I don't know why were all no can't policy kynch someone who's refusing to actually play the game and decides to be cheeky and dodgy when he does show up.

Why did you unvote if you still think it's a good wagon? We don't have that much time left...

Because I think he's a good policy wagon if he's not going to play the game but he did some things that looked townish.

[Tammy]

Okay leaning town on Thor here. One of the ways I *think* I know how to read Thor is how he reacts when run-up. Thor is Thor, but this looks more like his town reaction.

Gotta get ready for work, be back in a bit.

[Tammy]

Also lynching someone because you don't think the mod would include the role in a upick game in which the mod has stated there could be some "bastardly" elements is lol bad and you should feel bad.

[Tammy]

Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).

SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.

No, your tunneling on saki the entire game didn't help, but there's a difference here. Saki was, as much as I think he can, actually attempting to play the game. This guy isn't and there's no indication from last night that he will even start. So yeah I don't care if someone who is refusing to actually play the game hangs. If people are going to policy lynch for a role, I'd much rather policy lynch for a lack of actually playing because yeah while he partially sounds like butthurt town he also sounds like cheeky scum and I don't have any hope at this point that he's going to actually start playing the game.

I've got to go to work. Later.

[Tammy]

Oh, please. On the day me explaining myself makes me scum, you'll be the firsts to know.

mollie, I didn't do that. That was SafetyDance. What I said was "post in a few hours". I was busy for a while, and chose to jump right in instead of providing pointless commentary and :effort: walls.

My point is not that Thor is a poor Miller who happened to roll Town. My point is that Faraday does not use Millers as a role for Town, and thus has no reason to assign it in a game other than for shits and giggles *to people he already knows are scum*, which is what Tammy said happened with her partner in Westeros. This means Thor is not a Miller, because it's a silly thing to do before alignments are assigned and a role that Faraday doesn't use to balance Town negatively, thus was not added post-alignments--that makes Thor scum.

Additionally, he's trying to paint me as if I was retroactively amending my position on this post-facto, when it was pretty obvious what I meant when I voted him and after reading Tammy's point on Westeros games.

No, that is not what I said. I have consistently said that faraday assigns roles before alignments in upicks. He assigned my partner her role of miller before assigning her alignment. He kept it afterwards. When I told him she didn't claim miller because she was too nervous to, he commented that scum millers were amusing.

That does not in any little tiny way imply that faraday waited until alignments were assigned and then decided to tack on a scum miller role for shits and giggles. She would have always been a miller because roles were assigned first. Then alignments were assigned.

And I very very strongly doubt that faraday would only include scum millers in his setups because lol whatever reason you're coming up with. You really think he'd want his games broken that way? I'm gonna guess that he's got a bit more pride in his setups. Hell last year he put two weak flavor cops in the innocent faction, and gave the scum team a full fledged cop (boring or no) in a single faction game. Why'd he do that? To give the scum team a sense of legitimation.

Why don't you check out the wire and see what happens when people decide to outguess what faraday is or isn't likely to put into his setups. And stop claiming that something that he stated in the third post of this game, ie he assigned roles before alignments and tweaked after is not true.

If you want to argue he's scum because of his play do that, but this avenue you're taking is terrible.

[Tammy]

@Tammy - the continued grinding on the SD nugget at this stage isn't helping things. Yes, I think we all agree on a conceptual level that people who aren't playing the game kind of need to replace out or get killed.
That said, repeating it ad nauseum and getting into fights with the dude as he defends his poor play is hardly that much higher on the amazing pro-town scale, amirite?

Demand him to be vigged and move on, or wait until he does something that can be called scummy and try to get a dog pile going. Everything else just won't be helpful right now.
I (sadly) kinda buy his play as coming from a town (if not pro-town) mindset, but that still means we shouldn't lynch him and also that you have to not debate that what he's done is bad, but show how it is actually scummy to advance anything here.
And it's not going to happen even then for the rest of Day 1, pretty much assured.

@Alfred - moreso than anyone else, I'd like to get your take on what Tierce did as regards pushing my lynch last page and how she did it via the logic she presented.

It's not necessarily that, and I'm not fighting with Alfred. It would be one thing if it was okay this derpy guy is probably infuriating town and he's not going to play but were not going to lynch him anyway so let's find someone we believe is scum. Because hey that I'd back any day. Lynching scum over likely town no matter how annoying is preferable any day.

My problem is it's okay let's argue that this guy who isn't playing needs to be saved but let's policy lynch the guy who claimed miller because of stupid reason x,y,z.

If you get lynched and flip scum ill dance a jig, and eat a little crow, but I'll still maintain the setup reasons were complete bs.

[Tammy]

I'm here and deciding what I want to do.

If we lynch Thor and he flips town I'm going to

[Tammy]

Well we had a wagon going on safety dance that fell to Thor and Garruck when safetydance "town told"

[Tammy]

Tammy its D1, I'd die before a NL.

Chess, figure it out tomorrow.

2ish hours

Next time try consolidating earlier... grab people by collars.. yeesh everyone's panties jump into a bunch when I try and hardnose the game.. And when I don't we rival the US govt.

I wouldn't let it go to no lynch.

[Tammy]

Well we had a wagon going on safety dance that fell to Thor and Garruck when safetydance "town told"

The Garruck wagon was comically bad. It would've been a horrendous speedlynch. Now if we got off Sdance a few days a go because people stopped twiddling their own isolated agendas, we could've had time to analyze Garruk.

Safety dance refused to show up and participate before last night.

[Tammy]

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

false.

What crap meta are people learning these days.

I'm not going off meta - but I suppose if you hadn't read any of my earlier interaction with Thor, you wouldn't really get why I think that.

He doesn't mean you have meta with Thor. He's referring to the meta idea that you have to lynch miller claims. It's just as false as the idea that you have to lynch a pgo claim.

You might need to discuss it based on their behavior but you don't have to lynch them.

[Tammy]

If we lynch Thor and he flips town I'm going to

VOTE: THOR665

I don't get why you are quoting me.

[Tammy]

VOTE: tierce

That was the most opportunistic piece of bullshit jump on thor yesterday and I'm still pissed. Hey, I said, roles before alignments. Faraday has used millers I said. I've played in the last two faraday upicks I said. Did you listen? NOOOOO. Let's abide by some bullshit model made up by you to decide what faraday wouldn't do and just ignore the person who's played in every faraday modded game here and offsite for almost two years because clearly I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh but wait, town miller, good job.

And yeah I know empire's going to come in here and yell at me, but I just don't care right now. If you're town I have no idea what the hell you thought you were doing.

[Tammy]

For people who are better than me at setup spec, what does this mean for multiball vs. single scum team?

This head thinks that it would most likely indicate one main scum team plus one or two oddballs/independents, but two threes isn't

completely

out of the question. Presumably our obtaining this information was likely enough that the mod may have wanted to screw with our expectations about it somehow.

With having no deaths last night though, do you think it's likely to be more than one though?

[Tammy]

With having no deaths last night though, do you think it's likely to be more than one though?

We can think of plenty enough possible variables for that to be plausible.

There's one thing I'm toying with but not sure if it makes sense yet. Have to see how today goes.

[Tammy]

And, Tammy, I have strong reason to suspect that Tierce is town. Don't want to go into more detail at the moment, but, yeah. I refuse to support that lynch .

I'm just frustrated and need to vent. Venting at the mod doesn't help because he pretends I'm not talking.

[Tammy]

Did Syry get replaced by Alchemist or is that mechanical?

Yes and yes :p

[Tammy]

btw, elleheathen.

Can you compile all of Thor's reads, his reasons for his reads, and a VCA. Then please use them to find scum for me. TIA!

*twitch*

[Tammy]

Tammy--you said Faraday used millers in Westeros. Different metas, and scum millers are completely different than regular Town millers. Whatever. I could go on a rant on how you could have clarified that instead of bitching SafetyDance out, but right now I am all out of patience for yelling at you or anyone except these two.
?

I said several times roles then alignments. Said it had been that way in the last two upicks. Amrun asked if it was the same here and I pointed her to the opening post which said that.

-------------

UNVOTE:

Need to look back at some things.

[Tammy]

Why Amrun though?

- Des

Amrun is the lesser of the two, but I've had a gut scum read on her since the beginning of the game(I've mentioned this as well). As well, the faces on the Amrun train engender more hope to me than the faces on ooba at the moment. I know Amrun-scum lurks a lot more than town-Amrun, and, well, she's lurking hard this game(V/LA excuse time has run out).

@Tierce: Once, only.

Amrun definitely needs to post more, but now that another game is over I can mention that at the same time this game was going on she was also not playing in another game we were in in which she was town. She could be scum, but her lack of play was over more than one game so it's not alignment relevant.

[Tammy]

chef mafia

[Tammy]

chef mafia

iso'd.

Every vote has a reason. Every switch in reads is also reasoned. Nothing is done "on a whim". ever.

I am glad that finally I see a game where Amrun is town (and won with town). she's been scum wherever I see her recently.

And unfortunately she is also scum this game.

( yeah, syry and I wrecked shit that game ) but, I was just referencing that for the lurking argument. Il have to look back at the last times I saw her as scum to see if she does that vote thing as scum. I was pretty convinced she was scum the first day of that game and she wasn't, so I'm not really confident in my ability to read her.

[Tammy]

I don't want to lynch SD anymore.

What changed your mind?

He sent a rabbit to us and I don't think a scum JOAT would use the fruit vendor ability N1.

- Des

Why wouldn't he though? If he was near a lynch yesterday and had argued his role was provable, why wouldn't he prove it night one?

[Tammy]

Tammmmmyyyyy
I was going to sing you a song but now I can't

What song were you going to sing me?

[Tammy]

There's a princess in the song.

You're confusing me even more. I thought you were going to say you were going to sing me a song that blasted me for voting for Tierce at the start of day, but now I just have no clue

[Tammy]

You know, I'd be madder about Thor's wagon because of the miller thing etc, except uhm. Did no one notice that he kind of.. lied about who he was? I'm not a Game of Thrones scolar but that didn't look like the King of the Seals did it? It was still a terrible wagon for other reasons but I don't think over the top posts about how dare a liar get lynched are going to find teh scums.

He was being sarcastic about his King of the Seals claim. He admitted as much. If he would have actually flavor claimed, it might have made more sense, but he said he wasn't actually who he claimed to be.

[Tammy]

Yeah, I think Benmage and like one other person took it seriously, but that's about it.

[Tammy]

I am becoming increasingly paranoid about P&J. They just don't look like town Chesskid to me.

Like how? I've only ever seen scum!Chesskid, so I wouldn't known town him if he smacked me, but ActionDan not doing anything is pretty worrying.

[Tammy]

tierce I just iso-ed them and I didn't see where they did that?

They told me at the start of day that they had a pretty good reason to think that Tierce was town.

[Tammy]

wat thor/benmage/macmollie thing? there as a thor /benmage thing but thor and I were practically writing lovenotes to each other compared to our normal squabbles and benmage and I had very little to no interaction at all. so could you plz clarify tia

also noting that you were not reading your top scumspect's posts yesterday and that is just so ewww

not surprised you don't have any reads since all you have really been doing is whining about our playstyle and saying...you don't have any reads. <----

tammy sd was not the only 1 not playing the game on d1 there were a few

amrun is the only one that I can think of that was not playing the game, and that was a site wide issue and I don't remember any questions addressed to her that weren't answered. SD said he was catching up and didn't actually do anything, but seemed like he was actually caught up with the thread.

You're referring to Garruk here right (I've had some wine while unpacking so I migth be a little off). I've recently finished a game with one of the heads as scum and the head that I think's been posting a lot (Nat) doesn't feel as calculated as he did in that game. And besides, Tierce is right, if they were scum, they could have totally just let me go off on a tierce-full-tilt rampage and derail the beginning of day two and they didn't. they immediately tried to stop that, so unless you want to argue theyr're scum together, he's probs town.

[Tammy]

I'm a DRAGON!
The biggest one of all!
Did you try to marry me?

-.-

##Unvote

YOU CAN'T BE A DRAGON! THAT'S STUPID! I'm never calling you again. </3

Tammy, do you know what happened with Syr's disappearance, or are you avoiding commenting on it?

You should probably try to verify people are humans before you try to marry them >_>

Here's all I have to say about syryana atm

waiting for mollie to criticize more music

[Tammy]

he also had concerns about cephrir, goat people and had town reads on messiah, agar, tammy I think.

He never stated a town read on me; he didn't talk to me like he *thought* I was scum, but he didn't say hey tammy's town. He did state a town read on Alfred though that you missed.

[Tammy]

That's okay.
Let's vote Amrun together!

Displaced doesn't look like a scumbag.
I'll make a new list tonight or tomorrow.

Okay!

VOTE: amrun

[Tammy]

Since I'm not playing the game and am terrible at it anyway I realise the error of my ways, so I will be sheeping Tammy all day. Her rage is sincere and her ego, just perfect. So really, it's a no brainer. mmmBOP

I don't remember calling you terrible. If I thought you were just a terrible mafia player; I'd just ignore your presence and move on, but as I said earlier I think you have the capability of looking town when you are, so if you are town your not doing anything was frustrating.

Can we get something a little cooler than hanson associated with me because regardless what mollie thinks my musical taste is like, mmmbop is kinda meh.

[Tammy]

Tammy: Why CAN'T messiah and Tierce be scum together? They both seem fairly scummy to me.

Do you mean Garruk and Tierce?

And, Tammy, I have strong reason to suspect that Tierce is town. Don't want to go into more detail at the moment, but, yeah. I refuse to support that lynch today.

That's what I'm talking about. Do you really think Garruk comes out day two and draws a straight line to his partner at the start of day two?

[Tammy]

I think Syryana was a bulletproof townie who got replaced upon kill. That might just be the Sirens talking to me again, though.

Gods I hope the scum team shot Syry because that would mean they're just legit not paying attention, which means good things for us. But I just don't see how a scum team could just not realize that when Faraday said Syryana left the game and was not eligible for night actions, they decided to try to kill him anyway.

[Tammy]

I'm in the midst of grading papers and getting ready for meetings this week. Don't expect actual content from me before Tuesday at the earliest. (Unless I'm procrastinating and in that case yell at me to finish my work!)

[Tammy]

Also, this dragon is in a bit of a funk after Tammy rejected us so sorry, you're going to have to wait for us to learn to love again.

I never even got the chance to reject you; I doubt I would have!

[Tammy]

My brain is fried. If I somehow get mental energy tonight I'll catch up, but it will most likely be tomorrow when my brain is less melty.

Two things real quick:

Im not commenting on the syr/alch because I'm not. I'm just going to leave it at that for right this second; I'm trying to work out some stuff in my head myself.

Alfred bordempire - peacebringers replace out is suspect on his reasoning. Did you follow chef mafia? If you didn't, will you take a look at how he reacted in that game? He got quite a bit of flack from porochaz and I think someone else, brain fried can't think, but he was really righteously indignant about it, iirc, I kinda put him on ignore once I got a town read on him there.

Pedit: Kanyes game does tend to be inconsistent. Kanye was in mafia stuck? My brain must really be wiped I don't remember that. But in empires recent game his activity dipped in and out like crazy.

[Tammy]

Okay I'm not *totally* insane, he wasn't in mafia stuck unless he was an alt or I'm blind.

[Tammy]

I don't get the point of this question.

[Tammy]

The meta case he made is here

[Tammy]

VOTE: spyrex

[Tammy]

Vote spyrex with me shadoweh

[Tammy]

We can hold hands and be merry?

[Tammy]

Also my kitten is purring so it has to be a good sign!

(That or I really really should fall asleep.)