A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[elleheathen]

You hit your head too many times on the Wall, didn't you?

VOTE: PrideandJoy

[elleheathen]

you can dance if you want to,

vote safety dance

the unconfirmed...

How do you think voting the one man that's not looking (and therefore, not likely to be responding soon) to be helpful? Or are you used to stabbing a man in the back?

[elleheathen]

Why be a direwolf or a dragon when we can be 'badass woomenz'?

[elleheathen]

... So why FOS someone that hasn't been on yet?
All you're doing is making very little of what your FOS should be when it has actual merit behind it besides 'OHEYTHISGUYHASNTLOGGEDINYET. MUSTBEAWIGHT!'

[elleheathen]

What makes it 'good enough'?

[elleheathen]

'OHEYTHISGUYHASNTLOGGEDINYET. MUSTBEAWIGHT!'

The caps, or my interpretation of the weirdness of his vote and fos?

[elleheathen]

elle do you think pnj is scum or are you just happy w. lettin your rvs chill?

I'm happy to see where it leads.

[elleheathen]

Yeah, wight. Because as of right now, he hasn't posted so a dead slot. So?

[elleheathen]

lol that change.

What change?

[elleheathen]

wight = dead slot

rather than the obvious wight = scum connotation it looked like you were trying to fake to me. *shrug*

I'll move my vote when you do pro-town things.

That wasn't a change from what I was saying?
PB votes someone not here. I call him out for it and quote the most out there reference of a dead baddie that I can think of because I can't understand the reasoning behind putting a vote on a slot that he knew wouldn't respond.

Did you like his vote?

[elleheathen]

what about not having a reason for pointing at someone other than they haven't shown up do you not understand?

The town motivation from it.

[elleheathen]

VOTE: elleheathen yeah I am way supercomfy with that wagon. the wight comment reads too much like a slip to ignore this early in the game.

How could that even

be

a slip when I'm talking from the POV of someone else and not even referencing myself but someone that hasn't shown up yet?

[elleheathen]

VOTE: elleheathen yeah I am way supercomfy with that wagon. the wight comment reads too much like a slip to ignore this early in the game.

How could that even

be

a slip when I'm talking from the POV of someone else and not even referencing myself but someone that hasn't shown up yet?

He's saying it sounds like you know the scumteam is made up of wights, I believe, when there are essentially infinite possible scumteam themes.

And wights are a thing, in case you aren't aware. They're from the big cold place. I sure do like that place, even though it scares me sometimes.

I know what wights are, craven. Should I get you a blanket t'hide under?

[elleheathen]

Gods, rough crowd...

Can town slip?

Yes. There's townslips and scumslips.
But this was neither. It wasn't accidental. I

meant

to say wight as a reference that fit the scenario of a slot that was vacant as of yet. In hindsight, probably wasn't all that smart but wasn't thinking about how it'd be perceived as alignments or how it'd get turned around like this.

Mainly because since being voted, all Ella has done is react to her wagon, not scumhunt at all.

Meh, truth. My 163 and 201 is me trying, to no avail since neither of the questions were answered. But most of the scumhunting going on here is meta-based and I haven't played with a single person here - nor do I get insta-reads so I'm more conservative with (and prefer more conviction behind) my reads.

[elleheathen]

Claim

: Miller.

So the claim is at least optimal play that coincides with what your playstyle is (at least in regards to not wanting to have to play under the radar) so then what's your flavor name?

[elleheathen]

Claim

: Miller.

So the claim is at least optimal play that coincides with what your playstyle is (at least in regards to not wanting to have to play under the radar) so then what's your flavor name?

How will knowing this help anyone? It'll probably come out eventually.

I'd like to see if it in any way would coincide with what flavor I'd expect a miller to be drawn from as my natural inclination is to suspect claims - especially when they come in with 'Fuck 18 pages, initiate RVS vote because I'm clearly conftown'.

But

VOTE: Cephrir

Because it should have been very obvious why I was asking - and not only that, what's the harm in asking the flavor name when he's revealed what his role is?

I only follow strength - or lead by example.

[elleheathen]

what's the harm in asking the flavor name when he's revealed what his role is?

What's the advantage?
I mean, other than to lynchers or something?
Because, at this point, your vague claim is 'I think Thor is too dumb to manage to have a fake name claim to go with his fake Miller claim if he's scum who decided to gambit Miller.
And to that I say - look at my win rate as scum and my join date and then stop trying to explain to your grandmother how to suck eggs.

It's not far off the mark, no. But less about you ability to dredge up a fakeclaim flavor role that would match and more about it being an easy way for me to weigh the merit of the claim and not have to focus on it if it were to mesh up for me. So what's the disadvantage?

[elleheathen]

look at my win rate as scum and my join date and then stop trying to explain to your grandmother how to suck eggs.

First, that 'saying' implies that I was trying to advise you how to play the game. I wasn't. Second, so I should kneel to you because you're more experienced and because of that shouldn't be questioned on your actions? Never.

P-Edit: It doesn't.

[elleheathen]

especially one as ballsy as Day 1 Miller claim...y'know, a claim I wasn't rushed into in any way at all, nor forced to do, but chose to do as a clear strategy regardless of my alignment meaning I had time to think about it?

Yeah, I said all this when I said it was optimal play for a Miller

But, gawsh, fine, here's my nameclaim just for you;

Nameclaim: Casso, King of the Seals

You're right, it didn't help. Sorry.

And UNVOTE:
Because I'm bad and I'm playing bad.
Was more concerned with playing to flavor than I should be.

[elleheathen]

First, because the lyrics were posted: Last of the Giants

/tear

Anyway, some reads.

PrideandJoy - Null, Leaning Town

Spoiler:

I'm conflicted on. They came in with a self-vote that would ultimately end RVS (so in essence, good) but they voted a head instead of their hydra, something that actually couldn't be wagoned. While it looks awkward, I think it's the best way to self-vote (and kickstart discussion) without actually self-voting (which would otherwise feel scummy to me) so in this case does the opposite and makes me think towny.
The only thing that made me think otherwise was 277, where for all his non-chalance and uncaring attitude, he seems very concerned to have Tammy's vote on them. But then, it goes along with the early pressure he put on me only a few hours in to 'do town things!'

Ooba - Scummy

Spoiler:

Naked reads always give me a weird vibe when they come without any previous commenting. What strikes me as more odd there is that he has me, of all people, as his only town read in 271.

Doesn't provide anything further on his 'reads' as they are just 'vibes' but these vibes are apparently enough to vote on, just not to elaborate on? Ooba?
In 331, he misreps me by quoting a succession of posting that dubs it down to put me in the worst possible light (I really didn't need help there, yo!) but it's blank, not to mention erases what I am actually answering. When questioned on it, he says it was to 'get an explanation' but doesn't ask a question in the quotes with which to get a reaction.

@Ooba - If I'm your town read, why did you phrase the quotes to paint me as scummy - on top of an accusation of rolefishing on someone who'd already revealed their role? And why do you have me as town?

Tammy

is town. I expected coming into this that if she were scum, she'd have used her paranoia of me from the scum game she modded me in to give weight to an easy vote on me. She didn't. That, combined with the 'happy as fuck to be town' in 104 feels very true throughout her posts.

Shadoweh

I can't really read - but something about the interaction between her and Tammy feels like they're on opposing sides but only between the two, as if they're just going to eventually fight it out to the death betwixt themselves. In which case, I give you: Fight Music!

Thor - FIIK, looking into meta.

His tone at my questioning seemed overly aggressive which is something I'd expect more from town, but the whole DONTQUESTIONMENEWB felt very scummy - but then it was probably the nicest way possible to tell me I'm stupid too so idk.
Going to read the meta soon to see if that's typical as a response. Still don't like the claim but that's just because it's a claim, not because of him specifically.

Just going to second Tierce's questions to him in 373 for now.


The quadz wagon is meh. He got town points for stopping the attempted tunnel on the hydra issue that was taking the thread way off course. I didn't like that he didn't answer my question posed to him on the vote but the unvote didn't strike me as suspicious as it's made out to be. But then, I could be slightly biased, lol. Null atm.
Most of my other reads either aren't worth mentioning or just waiting on more content.

[elleheathen]

Why is self-voting bad if you're still self-voting in spirit?

I'm going to guess that's meant to say why

isn't

(?) and in this case, it just felt like a good use of hydra to me.

But most of the scumhunting going on here is meta-based and I haven't played with a single person here -

I thrive in crowds where I don't know anyone and no one knows me. You shouldn't have a problem getting reads on people the usual way, right?

Not so much about

my

reads but more getting into/understanding where other reads are coming from.

He got town points for stopping the attempted tunnel on the hydra issue that was taking the thread way off course.

Why? It seems pro-town, but not particularly difficult to replicate as scum.

Yeah, it probably isn't - but I think it's that he made two strong attempts at curttailing it. One that explained how it should be looked at and one that like 'nostahp'.

I can't really read - but something about the interaction between her and Tammy feels like they're on opposing sides but only between the two,

This suggests they are both third party or Shadoweh is scum, no?

Because I have Tammy as such a strong town read, initially yes, it lead me to believe Shadoweh might be scum. But their whole interaction confuses me (and I have a tendency to overthink things) and wanted a better idea on their flavors and to see what would happen when they found their hunky menz (thought it could be you with the 347 but no response to it from them) but:

And forgive me because

I know

this is going to sounds ridiculously stupid but you asked...

I thought they might be both town with some kind of modifier or role (mentors, lovers, neighbors) where this hunky man could choose between the two and it would somehow alter their role or... something? I only dove into a lot of this speculation because Shadoweh's posts haven't struck me as particularly scummy so I wasn't ready to label her as scum just because of what looks like a similarity in their roles - but haven't ruled it out as a possibility, no.

[elleheathen]

-

"not to mention erases what I am actually answering."

- so which part were you answering? It still isn't obvious.

This is what you quote:

Also, seriously, my rolename will help you quantify the validity of the rather normal and pointed claim of 'Miller'?
...
How's that help your read of my roleclaim?

P-Edit: It doesn't.

This is what is actually there:

My vote on you is serious now.
How's that help your read of my roleclaim?

P-Edit: It doesn't.

He says his vote is srs, which doesn't help my read of his roleclaim.

-

"on top of an accusation of rolefishing on someone who'd already revealed their role"

- ??

- ShadowReh who isn't on the wagon but the reaction to the elle's rolefishing was pushing it

^

-

"@Ooba - If I'm your town read, why did you phrase the quotes to paint me as scummy"

- I've already explained this. Either a self-contradiction on your part or a communication gap on my end - required an explanation. I approach the game like a puzzle to be solved - if there's a small piece that doesn't make sense, I want to see what that's about.

Meh. I find it weird because you posted it but didn't ask for this explanation you wanted until you were called out on the misrep and asked. If it were about seeing a response, it'd be one thing but you wanted an

explanation

to a question you didn't ask.

[elleheathen]

Oh, and:

HEY WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A READ ON ME

<3
You're town. Very obvious, wonderful, helpful town.

[elleheathen]

Also, I'm not scumreading Thor but am I the only one who doesn't buy the "lol Casso" claim

/handraise

A lot of that is probably due to the fact that I'm reading through his scum games/qt's and it doesn't strike me as something he'd pick. Originally, I thought he claimed the most obscure char he could think of just to shut me up - but he stuck by it and that surprised me.

While I think he is

exactly

the type of person to gambit this, the fact that he specifies the way in which he

could

be conftown

'if we have this role and if they do this'

(and goes with his 'you're dumb, let me spell it out for you' theme) makes me think there may be some merit to it but I still wouldn't put the gambit past him.

@PnJ - Since you're not scumreading him for it, why do you think he would fakenameclaim it?

@Thor - Was that your first pick? (Disregard if this was already asked/answered, I recall someone asking your picks previously and can't find it atm.)

Alfred pretty much sums up my thoughts on ooba in 599. (I don't know how I feel about Alfred actually echo'ing me but that's probably because he says exactly what I say and just does a better job of explaining it D:) ooba's actions make me think obvscum whereas his responses to me seem very genuine town, especially since he owned up. Conflicted.

Also. Whyyyyyyyy.

I read you as so town it hurts and then:

You can pretend I'm town if you need to

yudodistome (unless I just missed some by-play between you and macmollie...)

[elleheathen]

[sarcasm]Nameclaim: Casso, King of the Seals[/sarcasm]

That is all.[/b]

@Elle - that all said, you wanted the name claim to...scumhunt me in some manner...you apparently did nothing with it besides just going 'that's a weird claim...must be legit!'
Did I miss something?

Meh. When I asked, I figured there'd be some obvious revelation to go along with it. Like if it were, say, Tyrion, someone inherently good but whose alignment is always quesionable - who I could easily see as a miller.) You basically point out how stupid that is and I agree and drop it - a lot of that due to the fact that I hadn't much considered the more obscure selections we could have picked - or that it probably wouldn't be as obvious as I was thinking it might be.

I never said it was legit - and in my previous post am outlining exactly that - that I thought you were bullshitting me with the name claim but I didn't read your further commentary on it as snarky/sarcastic so it confused me.

[elleheathen]

First person to ever post mostly a majority of fluff out the gate - and still ping me as town. Hmm.
Think it might be the same thing as Tammy - because all the lols.

I don't ever want to leave this page. Not ever.

Especially when I do this:

VOTE: Thor

[elleheathen]

Especially when I do this:

VOTE: Thor

I don't think Thor is scum.

-f

Why not?

[elleheathen]

Especially when I do this:

VOTE: Thor

I don't think Thor is scum.

-f

Why not?

Why do you think he is scum?

-SSK

Because kittens.
Oh, you wanted a

serious

answer!
Because THE FEELS.
Oh, you mean you wanted an actual reason? Well dang! Here:

/interpretation

Spoiler:

The 'I'm a conftown Miller and Innocent Child basically.'

The claim.

The fakenameclaim.

The fact that he gets super defensive and derogatory that I would dare to suggest that the almighty Thor is scum when what I am actually doing is asking him for a reason to believe that his miller claim is legit and for a reason to think he's town -

and

I state this prior.

The sarcasm that doesn't always looks like sarcasm until it's later presented as sarcasm in the most sarcastic way possible - and this is only an issue because it feels like nothing he says can be taken at face value or believed, even if he

is

town.

The fact that even

if

his miller claim is legit it doesn't mean he's town. (And makes it a great gambit to make given that no other cop role can confirm his

alignment

. (And correct me if I'm wrong here because I'm not overly familiar with all roles but day cop, flavor cop, gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower, watcher, voyeur - none of these variations can confirm whether he is scum or not.)

If he's town, at best, he's anti-town that wastes drawing all of our peekaboo-power to him for a search to prove him town when he can't be proven town - and when it's unlikely that town would out themselves to prove he's anything but scum and even then, no guarantees unless they're chopping block material.

There are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

Yes, completely out-there speculation. No, probably not as easy as all that. Yes, good probability that I'm wrong. And yes, mostly gut. Take it with a grain of salt, if you like.

I think a lot of it stems from reading his scum qt's and the fact that this seems exactly the type of gambit he would try to pull off as scum - if just 'for the lols'.

And because I feel lucky.

[elleheathen]

1= He's scum, 2= He's town

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[elleheathen]

There you have it, folks!

[elleheathen]

I'm going to precursor this with:

I never stated nor pretended that this was some big case on you nor tried to present it as such. I never implied it was some strong case at all - and even went so far as to belittle what information it is that makes me think you're scum by saying that it's mostly just speculation and gut.

Because I plan to ignore a good portion of your sarcastic blather.

Mmmmmkay.

Oh, also, and in correcting you if you're wrong - with a Miller claim the following roles can all provide rather serious evidence about my alignment; gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower.
Neither Watcher or Voyuer can but...then again, they can't do so for anyone they target...though I suppose if they watched or Voyeured someone *I* targeted, then, again, they would help identify my alignment (since, y'know, Thor would have lied...y'know).
Flavor cop wouldn't help until and if I was forced to nameclaim...also known as 'the only way a Flavor Cop ever helps in a uPick' so it's meaningless because he's as effective versus me as versus anyone.

Gunsmith - in this case, likely flavored something like swordsmith - could not confirm you as town. They could confirm that you had a weapon and confirm that you lied about your role should you be found with a sword but not as town.
A role cop - would tell me your

role

, not your

alignment

and your

role

isn't indicative of your

alignment

.
A faction cop - is basically just a cop for their respective multiball faction - and I'm unclear whether this would play out the same result as a regular cop for a miller of that faction.
A tracker and follower - both could confirm that you targetted someone, which could easily be avoided by inviting everyone to target you tonight and

not targetting anyone tonight

.
A flavor cop - wouldn't help even if you were forced to claim as it gives us your flavor name, which doesn't prove your

alignment

.

The 'I'm a conftown Miller

and Innocent Child basically.'

If she would like to say that she honestly believes I claimed Innocent Child I will respond to this.

I'm an Innocent Child effect basically.

Oh, I'm sorry. Was this sarcasm, too? Well damn, I keep missing it in text. How derp of me.

[elleheathen]

I'm going to precursor this with:

I never stated nor pretended that this was some big case on you nor tried to present it as such. I never implied it was some strong case at all - and even went so far as to belittle what information it is that makes me think you're scum by saying that it's mostly just speculation and gut.

"And decided to present it anyway - and am voting you regardless"

Do you see the issue there?

That I'm voting with my gut - and plainly saying that I'm voting with my gut and state the reasons why it pinged my gut? Or that I'm going on what makes me

feel

like you are scum as opposed to very obvious scumtells - which you point out won't happen anyway because you're a scum expert - why, just look at your scum win ratio! That issue?


As to the cops issue:

Oh, okay. Good. Now we have it cleared up that none of those roles can

confirm you as

town

like you've been suggesting all along, and that only one of those roles can confirm you as scum. Thanks.

So great. On the off chance that we do have a gunsmith in the setup, we're all set for knowing that you're scum! Except that, as I've said, no guarantees when or if they'd get the chance to out you. And, you know, that's beside the very big

if

.

So, when I said I was a Miller...who could still be investigated by oother means, thus making me like an Innocent Child...you took that as;
Claim: Innocent Child Miller!
And you also didn't request me to use my Innocent Child power?
...
...
...
Whut?
Can you walk me through that again?

You said you were miller, a claim I said out the gate that was my natural inclination not to believe. K.

Who could still be investigated by other means - except that you said you could be investigated as

town

which is not the case and in which only one role can investigate you as anything useful. K.

Claim: Innocent Child Miller - Nope. That's me taking that as you trying to convince people that you're somehow conftown, innocent child - when you're not conftown, innocent child and can't be proven conftown innocent child. K.

[elleheathen]

Syr. I spent far too long trying to lip-read this.


@Thor - Spoilered because length

Spoiler:

Well, you plainly stated you were voting with gut after I pointed out your case was meaningless dribble.
Why waste our time if this was the case?

Actually, I stated it before and had to reiterate it after because you chose to ignore it the first time. See here:

Before:

Yes, completely out-there speculation. No, probably not as easy as all that. Yes, good probability that I'm wrong. And yes, mostly gut. Take it with a grain of salt, if you like.

After:

I'm going to precursor this with:

I never stated nor pretended that this was some big case on you nor tried to present it as such. I never implied it was some strong case at all - and even went so far as to belittle what information it is that makes me think you're scum by saying that it's mostly just speculation and gut.

I wasn't aware that gut reads were a waste of everyone's time.

Next.

You also ignored the plethora of other roles I pointed out could find me as scum,

First, how did I ignore this

plethora

of other roles when I address them all here, in my post, with your post include IN that post:

Oh, also, and in correcting you if you're wrong - with a Miller claim the following roles can all provide rather serious evidence about my alignment; gunsmith, role cop, faction cop, tracker, follower.
Neither Watcher or Voyuer can but...then again, they can't do so for anyone they target...though I suppose if they watched or Voyeured someone *I* targeted, then, again, they would help identify my alignment (since, y'know, Thor would have lied...y'know).
Flavor cop wouldn't help until and if I was forced to nameclaim...also known as 'the only way a Flavor Cop ever helps in a uPick' so it's meaningless because he's as effective versus me as versus anyone.

Gunsmith - in this case, likely flavored something like swordsmith - could not confirm you as town. They could confirm that you had a weapon and confirm that you lied about your role should you be found with a sword but not as town.
A role cop - would tell me your

role

, not your

alignment

and your

role

isn't indicative of your

alignment

.
A faction cop - is basically just a cop for their respective multiball faction - and I'm unclear whether this would play out the same result as a regular cop for a miller of that faction.
A tracker and follower - both could confirm that you targetted someone, which could easily be avoided by inviting everyone to target you tonight and

not targetting anyone tonight

.
A flavor cop - wouldn't help even if you were forced to claim as it gives us your flavor name, which doesn't prove your

alignment

.

Yes. I left out Voyeur and Watcher. Because your explanation of them was sufficient, and they were not roles that could target YOU and learn anything from YOU.

and also how the rolecop one would force you to totally reinvent your case if it came up 'Miller'.

And once again. Miller does not mean that you are town.

Meanwhile, again ignoring how if I am Scum why I would clarify how many roles my power specifically wouldn't work against...y'know, meaning that those powers are free to check me out at their leisure and I can't use a 'but...Miller!' defense on them.

Initially, you don't. You imply that you can be proven town by any investigative non-regular cop role. This is not true - I question it. You list the ones that can prove you town - I list the flaws in this claim because only one (gunsmith) could prove that you are not a Miller. Which goes back to Miller not necessarily being town.

Claim: Innocent Child Miller - Nope. That's me taking that as you trying to convince people that you're somehow conftown, innocent child - when you're not conftown, innocent child and can't be proven conftown innocent child. K.

You are aware that Innocent Child is a PR and that you have agreed that you didn't think I was claiming it...and then whined that I claimed it...right?

If the extent of your issue is that I claimed I was conf. town...that's at least vaguely defensible because people d seem to take issue with that...even though I wasn't aware I had mind control powers based on whatever I wrote, but that has nothing to do with an Innocent Child claim...right?

No. It's that you're insinuating that you are conftown/innocent child effect because you're Miller but Miller does not guarantee that you are town, let alone that you are conftown and/or should be treated as though you're innocent child.

While you stick by your Miller claim - you keep avoiding the fact that numerous times it has been said that roles come before alignments and that being a Miller does not mean you're town.

So. I believe that you might very well be a Miller given your stance on it.

And I think there's as much chance for you to be a town Miller as a scum Miller.

If you're town, I'm having difficulty seeing it. Though the last replies seem improved if only because:

The sarcasm that doesn't always looks like sarcasm until it's later presented as sarcasm in the most sarcastic way possible - and this is only an issue because it feels like nothing he says can be taken at face value or believed, even if he

is

town.

It feels less like a scum trying to hide their motives behind sarcasm that only serves to confuse and only avoids answering questions.

But I can see you as scum:

To me, it looks like you're applying the 'Big Lie' theory - that if you tell a lie that's big enough, and you tell it often enough, people will believe you are telling the truth, even when what you are saying is total crap.

I think that your continually insinuating that our PR's can confirm you as town is an attempt to get as many of our investigative PR's to target you as possible. I bring it to attention because that would be a sad waste of PR power, and unless we have a gunsmith, we shouldn't be wasting any night abilities on you since none of these can confirm you as a definite besides gunsmith.

Which goes full circle back to:

There are a number of reasons why this claim is wonky - I mean, considering alone how alignments came after roles, this could be a brilliant gambit. For example, it could be a miller/watcher/whatever else scum team and he's using this claim to draw our investigative roles to his scumbud so that they know who all those PR's are.

Yes, completely out-there speculation.

But it doesn't mean some parts could be valid. I

am

lucky, after all.

And to whoever suggested it was a cop-out claim - I don't know. I see it at as high-risk, high reward gambit - and something he would do just 'for the lols' if just to see how long he lasts. It'd be a serious 'inyoface' if it were pulled off. And that's only if he's faking Miller - because

as

a Miller, he seems to be counting on site-meta beliefs to pull him through.

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

But alas, the dice have spoken.

Speaking of:

elle's dicetags post seems super town to me

Is this because of rule breaking or is there something else?

Kneeler laws don't apply to me.

[elleheathen]

Eh, it's not just the scum list I'm having difficulty making but a list at all.

Going to scale the wall of some ISO's.

[elleheathen]

Reading through this all just looks like a lot of 'you're my bro or I think I can read you well so I won't vote you even though I think there's a good chance you're scum.'

...And this really only applies because /sadpanda

So many people are townreading Thor and I feel like I've missed something. Reading through more of his games kind of makes me wonder - but I knew my read was highly speculative when I made it. (And I'm one of those awful people that has to state them when I feel them because

what if

.) I still stand by it but this recent push gives me uneasy vibes. macmollie's vote (and the leadup for it) on Thor looks like an attempt to find an excuse to get the vote back on him after kanye's 1201. I'm not sure it's indicative of alignment - just gives me weird feels.

@macmollie

- Could I get a summary on your read of Thor, if you plzplz?

@kanye

- Same as above.

(Or maybe just point me in the direction of your read if I missed it? I'll ISO for it tomorrow but in case you beat me to it or wanna lay it out for me... ?)

@Tammy

- Did Thor's responses give you any better insight about him at all?

[elleheathen]

^
Not sure how to feel about the wagon yet but pretty much what I was thinking.

The misrep is going to fester even though the response that Ooba gave me on it made me feel all warm and fuzzy towny on him - so that part leaves me kind of null.

I don't really like the way that he scumhunts but I don't think that because it's different that it means scum. While I can see this as a good way for scum

to

scumhunt, I can also see a benefit to this style of scumhunting in the late game. It made me look into a few of his games to see if there was any indication of a like-process of scumhunting elsewhere - and there is.

The problem is that in other games, there's also a very evident feel of paranoia and questions that accompany this process as town that I'm not getting a sense of here.

@ooba - What's up? Am I wrong at feeling like something is missing from you or is there a reason why I'm not getting that speculative vibe from you?

Tell me I'm wrong - because bondfelixface and pretty reads list make me happy.

[elleheathen]

@mod - V/la until Sunday.

(Just a heads up in case I don't get a chance to check in) Gameday weekend > all things! <3

[elleheathen]

Not sure where elles getting the paranoia thing. I'm paranoid when i get to late game and setup speculation, not early game.

It comes naturally... Not answering me isn't helping.

[elleheathen]

There's way more to Thor, than Policy Lynching him for Miller.

A)Miller claim
B) His auto-town assertion in his claim
C) His bullSmurfing well into the game about his claim verse being open and truth full.. we're the uniformed, we cant be playing games.
D) His repetitive deflection
E) Fence-sitting/lining up lynches.

Its a great D1 lynch if you ask me. Wayyy to many question marks surrounding that slot.

There's way more to Thor than policy lunching hm for Miller claim;

A) There's Policy Lynching him for Miller claim.
B) There's that he thought his claim was obviously pro-town and said so - the scummy bastich!
C) There's the Casso, King of the Seals nameclaim which me and one other person bought, and other people immediately told us was fake, but Thor didn't until later, and that is anti-town to make me look silly, and obviouslly served a scum agenda of distracting people...namely just me and, like, Ceph(?) I dunno, whoever else bought it.
D) His deflection...of...stuff...I'm guessing the nameclaim? I dunno.
E) Him pseudo bussing his buddy, but I won't vote the buddy, even though that's the only way this is scumplay.

Yep.
Amazing case.

F)The continual downplaying of the shit he did to not make it look as scummy as it is.

[elleheathen]

Garruk's wagon is the worst at this point - it kills any good vca/reasonings we might have had on a lynch and turns it into 'loldeadline'!

As for ooba, despite him not answering me about what I see missing in his posting here as opposed to other games, I still have him leaning a bit more town than scum due to his responses to me just feeling very genuine town.

With SD, I don't see the scum mindset in listing off 10 scumreads, if that's all there is to the SD lynch. I think that's an awful move for a scum to make, and a lot of attention/people your risk questioning it if you're scum.

And I think if it's between a possible town joat and a possible town miller, there's no question; we lynch the miller.

In regards to Thor, while I agree that the last page of his commentary looks town, I also don't see it as something hard to fake when you're being run up and that's your last shot. It could just as easily be scum bluffing as town helping.

Thor is the best lynch.

I think he's scum but at this point, even if he's not at least we have

1)His claim
2)His final reads
3)And the best vca analysis we're going to get

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

[elleheathen]

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

false.

What crap meta are people learning these days.

I'm not going off meta - but I suppose if you hadn't read any of my earlier interaction with Thor, you wouldn't really get why I think that.

Thor is the best lynch.

I think he's scum but at this point, even if he's not at least we have

1)His claim
2)His final reads
3)And the best vca analysis we're going to get

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

1. Yes, because that's impossible to get.
2. ...oookay, how thoughtful of me to provide reads, if I'd known providing jack-all would make me less lynchable I would have done that. Oh gawds, the newb is so strong here.
3. ...and, hey, look, off my VCA is scummy Garruk...who is a wagon option, so...y'know...

This is really just an 'in comparison to the other lynch possibilities on the table thing' but to issue 3; and if Garruk flips town? There is

nothing

to analyze because it's all deadline votes. We don't have his claim and there's not enough to go on with 3 hours left of lynch opportunity so for all we know, he could be an

actual

town PR as opposed to a negative utility

miller

.
Same goes for ooba.

That's not what you actually do with Millers - you're just supposed to scumhunt them normally, not policy lynch them because you're unable to find scum without a cop holding your hand (or are Benmage - who may have that problem, what do I know?)

This isn't a normal instance, though. We've been over this but miller doesn't mean town and if I'm just to 'scumhunt you normally', I've already listed the things you've done up to now that have made me think of you as scum.

Whose worse, this town or the US govt.

lol. Depends on who else is actually town.

[elleheathen]

It would have helped...

[elleheathen]

Anyway.

VOTE: Zdenek

Bad, bad vibes. Most of his posts just look to me as though they're either trying to cast suspicion on or away from someone else.

His 1022, for example. Where it just feels as though he's pointing out things that look scummy to him without actually taking a stance on them while parking his vote from 300 posts before.

And his votes. Most of them are either blank or not really explained.

28 - Benmage - 'Obviously' (and only here to outline his original RVS)
62 - Kanye - 'Well this is actually easy.'
396 - Thor - 'Miller claim looks bogus.'
778 - Goat - 'Mainly because their interaction with Benmage which seemed like the were just trying to be antagonistic.'
1579 - Thor - Blank
1817 - Amrun - Blank

The recent 1848 gives me a

vibe

of some kind of fishing. It's a simple question though and may just be a case of 'looking to much into it' due to phrasing but that's what it felt like when I read it.

@Zdenek - What are your reads on ooba and Cephrir?
Also, do you think Amrun is scum due to her low activity despite her explanation?

[elleheathen]

28 - Benmage - 'Obviously' (and only here to outline his original RVS)
62 - Kanye - 'Well this is actually easy.'
396 - Thor - 'Miller claim looks bogus.'
778 - Goat - 'Mainly because their interaction with Benmage which seemed like the were just trying to be antagonistic.'
1579 - Thor - Blank
1817 - Amrun - Blank

Well, if you are going to hold my RVS votes against me there's really not much I can say. As for the others, Goat's attack on Banmage was lame and they admitted as much, Thor was a scum read from the get go, Benmage made some good points about him, and he was a lynch that I was fine with at the end of the day. I'd already explained my Amrun vote, and I feel no need to repeat myself.

I'm not using your RVS against you - and state specifically that I only add the first vote in there to

show

the one that is RVS. Are you saying your second vote on Kanye in 62 is not RVS? Because it looks like you're defending it as a legitimate vote in 69, 182 and 187...

What do you think of the other Amrun votes?

If you mean the wagon as a whole, I think this is exactly the time it needs to happen. There seems to be a lot of questions arisen due to her inactivity and/or lack of contribution - and running her up seems to be working if only to get her involved/responding because

lurking

isn't going to cut it - we need more.

If you mean the people on Amrun's wagon, I have Alfred, Naut and Goat as town. Shadoweh I had as leaning town but the whole marriage thing/no marriage/dragon marriage fail gives me weird vibes. But I'm not really clear on what happens with all that so idk but it puts her back at a null. (Anyone wanna clear up what happened there for me? D: )

[elleheathen]

I don't have a strong read on either Cephir or Ooba, but I don't want to lynch either of them today.

Why not?

[elleheathen]

Not really. I showed up at Alfred's door with a bottle of Bacardi going "Hey handsome wonk " and he was like "PUFF THE MAGIC DRAAAGON LIVES BY THE SEA" and I ran away in horror the end

Do you only get one shot - and because you failed to choose a human you're doomed to a spinster life filled with only your Bacardi and fire?
I think I only find it weird because Tammy's search was very... open? Where I feel yours was more behind the scenes? I accept different approaches but I'm just trying to get a feel for it because there wasn't an obvious "Alfred jilted Shadoweh at the altar of fire!" mod post like Tammy/Syr's wedding post.

I don't know that their would be on a failed attempt, though. I think I remember seeing someone saying there was an instance of this marriage deal happening somewhere else? Whur?

[elleheathen]

Spoiler: Disappeared (1/25)
Syryana disappeared at the end of Day 1

1/25 now instead of 1/24 - though still no idea what to make of it.

P-Edit - o0o, interesting theory.

[elleheathen]

Do you only get one shot - and because you failed to choose a human you're doomed to a spinster life filled with only your Bacardi and fire?
I think I only find it weird because Tammy's search was very... open? Where I feel yours was more behind the scenes? I accept different approaches but I'm just trying to get a feel for it because there wasn't an obvious "Alfred jilted Shadoweh at the altar of fire!" mod post like Tammy/Syr's wedding post.

Can you tell me a reason I should actually answer this question? It's almost like I'm not Tammy or something. I have no interest in helping you understand. Bacardi is my best friend though, he and I can be happy forever.

Not really. As I said previously, I had you leaning town but my confusion over what typically happens here (because I got the feel that it was common knowledge from others and remember something about the marriage deal happening in another game) put you back at null. I was hoping to clear it up because I liked you as leaning town.

My comment that 'I accept different approaches' was me saying that I know you're not Tammy and that I don't expect you to play the same way...

I wish you and your bottle the best.

[elleheathen]

hello, all. i want to lynch garuck and terice and also maybe amrun a little someonje whos good @ finding scum and also town pls tell me what 2 do ty

Why Garruk?

[elleheathen]

I think he's scum but at this point, even if he's not at least we have

1)His claim
2)His final reads
3)And the best vca analysis we're going to get

The worst case scenario is we lose a miller that would have to be lynched at some point anyway.

It reminded us of the kind of bargaining that we tend to do as scum in order to negotiate ourselves a cheap mislynch. It's frustrating because we know that it sounds reasonable but, anecdotally, this head is sure that he sees this more often from scum than town.

Do you not think that with 6 hours to go and 4 wagons at 5/9/3/6 respectively that we didn't need some bargaining to prevent a no lynch?

Do you think it's more likely that most of the scum were actually on Thor's wagon or the ones who were here and seemed to be actively avoiding any lynch?

Through all of his her focus is very largely on Thor, there's not a lot of talk or digging on anyone else.

Well, I suppose since you only:

iso'd elleheathen and ctrl+f'd "Thor".

You may have missed some of it. Though, admittedly, the point is still fair. Besides my interaction with ooba, there isn't too much of note. A lot of my questions went either unnoticed, unanswered or 'rainchecked' but not much else was jumping out as me as OMGOBVSCUM.

It adds up to a feeling that elle is most comfortable arguing hypotheticals, practicalities and gut about Thor than anything else. It's the easy way to look busy.

lol, you think butting heads with Thor is 'easy'?

Who are your scumreads?

[elleheathen]

@Alfred - In your 2160 reads, you have Zdenek up there in what looks like a varying degree of towny pile. Help me out and give me some insight into that one. My list looks fairly similar (at least name wise) with Z as the one exception.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is

L-2

?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever. Content or claim, imo.

[elleheathen]

@ naut

I am starting to get cranky and suspicious that you are not working with me on hammering out reads. do it w/o elle plz lets just start.

you're waiting on something from meee? i re-read and iso'ed but I don't see what i missed? halp?

Serious question for people: Is kayneknowsbest's active lurking not scummy to anyone? We've been beating up on lurkers, Amrun, displaced/Spyrex before he's posted (?) but kayne is getting some serious ignore time here. I know he posts small alot but in Mafiastuck he was really active like he was at the beginning and never stopped. Kayne can you please stop it and go back to Day 1 when you were pushing your reads? What do you think about Zdenek ignoring you today?

Don't know what to think about kanye.

A ton of people seem to have town reads on him based on his meta, which I'm hesitant to doubt because I was wrong with Thor in that situation.
His posting style seems scummy to me, as does his ignoring of questions, though both have been stated to be 'kanye normal' regardless of alignment.

I don't know about the active lurking but I've had him in my 'could be scum' sights since he left the Thor wagon with only twelve hours to go to start a new wagon on Garruk without even so much as a read. Maybe it's that there isn't much transition from his post in 1664 where he seems fine with both the Thor and SD wagons but... bad feels.

But then, he doesn't actually explain anything and hasn't answered my question on 'Why Garruk' yet - and that's apparently normal so idk.

[elleheathen]

bah. disregard the question above, macmollie. just realized you meant elli, not me. (i think?)

[elleheathen]

Not just stupid - intentional.

VOTE: Spyrex

[elleheathen]

@mod - Gone for the weekend, V/LA until Sunday night

[elleheathen]

Not just stupid - intentional.

VOTE: Spyrex

Is enough.

It takes a particularly ticklish brand of stones to call out the hammer even if it was fast.

Really? You thought you'd come into today without being called out for quickhammering without slot content or claim time? ...Really?

And 'fast' is an understatement. There's not even two hours (and only two posts) between the L-1 and your hammer - and what, you didn't expect someone to 'have the stones' to call you out for it?

I'm not buying into that whole PB replaces out as scum supposed meta tells or the lurking bit of displaced - this is solely because of that hammer. And

that

is enough.

[elleheathen]

I'll quote this even though its to both of you.

Yea, I expect 'heat' or fake /emo or what have you but

being on the wagon

and coming out takes stones. If you're gonna late vote, you want it dead.

And lets not forget the fact that she was active and posting on site after Garruk said 12 hours to hammer. If there was time for squemishness then would have been when to slide off.

You dont get to be on it and tsk, tsk when things dont work out.

Actually, I do get to be on it and 'tsk, tsk' at you because:

While I believe the L-1 was overkill, it still gave us the option to opt out.

So did Garruk's 12 hour warning.

Your hammer in the interim of two posts did not - especially when it was made abundantly clear by many that that wagon was up there to pressure Amrun for a response or a claim. Something your hammer prevented.

12:43 - AGar's L-1 on Amrun
12:52 - Garruk states intent to hammer in 12 hours
2:31 - Your hammer

^You think that is giving people sufficient time to 'slide off'?

You say you had reasons for wanting to see that lynch. Reasons that couldn't have waited until you'd either formed an actual opinion on Amrun or got a response or a claim from them - when it was blatantly obvious that that's what the wagons intent was?

And before misreping the dead, why not take a look at Amrun's post history for the time of all this - because you're saying they posted while all this was going on - and they hadn't posted on site anywhere during this time. Their last post on site was here, in this thread, before my L-2. And their next post on site was well after your hammer. So, come again?

Also, I thought you were just hammering because 'lolreasons' yet now you're trying to justify the hammer beyond that because of lurking - when you even state that you were in the midst of only reading up to page 12 - turned back and hammered - but somehow found time in there with no reason whatsoever to check in on Amrun's posting activity?

[elleheathen]

Not they.

You. YOU posted after garruk said 12 hours. You were on, saw it at L-1 and went "swelp, this is fine".

No, I did not. My last post in this thread is at 12:08 - 35 minutes before the L-1. Cephrir is the only person to post (besides a VC) in between the L-1, Garruk's 12 hour warning, and your hammer.

Because it'd take a 'particularly ticklish brand of stones' to insinuate that because I was posting in other games that that somehow means that I was lurking here instead of just

posting in my other games

. Maybe you should take a look at the content of those posts in those games to which you think I'm lurking with instead of

involved

in those games.

You know, besides the fact even if I had seen it - there was still 12 hours hence from a stated intent.
You say it was because of 'reasons' - yet the only reason I see to hammer something that already has intent on it, is to prevent us from getting the information we were waiting on from Amrun. Did you get what you wanted from your 'reasons'?

[elleheathen]

Actually. How did you EVER think I was talking about Amrun from what I said?

Even more important, in a game where the role has nothing to do with the alignment, why were you pushing for a

claim

?

First, if you don't want to be misunderstood, be more clear. 'She' is not clear.

Second:

Do you think that just because roles comes before alignments, that claims will not help us? That claims can't be countered or discussed or merited?

Do you not think that those that pushed SD's claim used the validity of it to access him as town given that claim in combination with his responses, despite the 'what came first' debate?

Also:

And, if its the latter no way. You vote to make people dead. You dont vote for a claim. She didn't even say it was a lolpressure vote to get the fabled content. It was for the claim and in the best of worlds that stinks to high heaven.

Let's review.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is

L-2

?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever. Content or claim, imo.

So please, do tell me how that's not a pressure vote when I state that I'm voting it because my townreads are there and because I'm conflicted over Amrun's dodgy posting - to which I want what is promised. The content, and if that doesn't happen - the claim.

Try again - because the only person that I can see that voted to 'make them dead' was

you.

[elleheathen]

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

[elleheathen]

Allllll the procrastinators.

[elleheathen]

No, Elleheathen is still probably town.

Why? I really am interested in seeing if you see what I see as missing from her town game.

Me too.
Since he's answered, what is it you see that's missing from my town game

that isn't in my scum game

?

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

Hey, this isn't doing jack shit for anyone. If you actually want to help me get him lynched you should start putting in the same kind of time you did pussy footing around with Thor D1.

Yeah, I hear ya.

But do you actually think my 'pussy footing around with Thor D1' did 'jack shit for anyone' either, when a good portion of the group here admitted to not only ignoring what was in it but not even reading it? A theme that seemed to be carried into Day 2 since most of my questions went unanswered and my arguments about Zdenek and kanye ignored.

So yeah, admittedly - I've become disengaged.

So why is it more questionable that despite the fact that I've already said

why

I feel like he should be lynched and

why

I'm on the wagon than those that haven't?

You seem to dislike my comment on the procrastination going on in reference to all those that haven't taken a stand and are just sitting back prod dodging as time ticks by so that we're put into yet another loldeadline situation. We have 4 people that aren't even voting and another 4 on solo votes - a good majority of those that aren't doing crap all. Yet

I'm

the one not helping you?

Welp. It is what is it, then.

[elleheathen]

{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}

this is pretty much my kill group in order

wheres tammy in this?

Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.

and/or Tierce?

[elleheathen]

Zdenek is scum.

No time to go in depth but the zdenek wagon is the best of the three options.

Then why are neither of you voting him and actually making it a viable wagon option? Your votes are doing so well there in that 'Not Voting' pile.

[elleheathen]

Because I don't have a vote today

sadday.

hey elle. can u pls point out to me your argumetns about me which were ignored which helped lead to you becoming disengaged?

Yeah, sure. The ones about you that I could remember/find:

hello, all. i want to lynch garuck and terice and also maybe amrun a little someonje whos good @ finding scum and also town pls tell me what 2 do ty

Why Garruk?

Serious question for people: Is kayneknowsbest's active lurking not scummy to anyone? We've been beating up on lurkers, Amrun, displaced/Spyrex before he's posted (?) but kayne is getting some serious ignore time here. I know he posts small alot but in Mafiastuck he was really active like he was at the beginning and never stopped. Kayne can you please stop it and go back to Day 1 when you were pushing your reads? What do you think about Zdenek ignoring you today?

Don't know what to think about kanye.

A ton of people seem to have town reads on him based on his meta, which I'm hesitant to doubt because I was wrong with Thor in that situation.
His posting style seems scummy to me, as does his ignoring of questions, though both have been stated to be 'kanye normal' regardless of alignment.
I don't know about the active lurking but I've had him in my 'could be scum' sights since he left the Thor wagon with only twelve hours to go to start a new wagon on Garruk without even so much as a read. Maybe it's that there isn't much transition from his post in 1664 where he seems fine with both the Thor and SD wagons but... bad feels.
But then, he doesn't actually explain anything and hasn't answered my question on 'Why Garruk' yet - and that's apparently normal(?) so idk.

It's not much, especially apart from everything as a whole. But altogether it makes the effort feel wasted. /shrug

also i notice that you seem to think zed is scum. why havent you made any comments about him at all today outside of trying to cheerlead agar into placing his vote? are you willing to switch your vote over to zed at this point?

My read on him hasn't changed since my post 1891. I still think those things are scummy and that he could be scum - but I also don't see much point in repeating it.

My vote will stay on Spyrex - because I think he's scum and needs to die.

However, if the incoming loldeadline takes Spy off the table and means it's a choice between Zdenek and someone else, then yes, I would vote Zdenek. Or you.

Elle: Best way to become engaged with the game: Scream at people. If you don't want to cure your disengagement well..

Trying to get back into it - but I suck at screaming at ppl. I'll work on it... lol <3

[elleheathen]

Obvious prod dodge is obvious.
(Sorry - will catch up after the flu's done kicking my ass.)

[elleheathen]

Which means that our votes are in the right place. In case we're not here tomorrow: For the love of god, exterminate elleheathen. Please.

id be okay w. making elle dead if we could swing it, but i dont see it happening

Oh? x2

[elleheathen]

Yikes, forgot about this. I need to reread but before I do...

@Alfred, Naut, Tammy, Cephrir

& anyone else that can read her well...

Is Tierce town?

[elleheathen]

Yikes, forgot about this. I need to reread but before I do...

@Alfred, Naut, Tammy, Cephrir

& anyone else that can read her well...

Is Tierce town?

I probably should not be included in this group but as far as I can tell yes

Nope, you have been included for a reason. <3

Still waiting on Naut/Tammy before I reveal why I'm asking.

[elleheathen]

elleheathen: wait until SafetyDance clarifies what he did each Night, please.

Yes'm.

[elleheathen]

Taking some Shadoweh advice here and:

HEY TAMMY.

TAMMY.

Is Tierce town?


Up in the air about this whole SD thing. Thought he was for sure town up until this recent "I claimed this but did this" as if he's only

claiming

to have done something that he didn't actually do. 3178's especially, with "Therefore day 3 IS yesterday and yesterday was when I claimed to have blocked Naut D2."

Idk - something doesn't ring right. I may just be hung up on the odd wording because "I claimed to have done X" is so far from "I did X" in combination with the refusal to fill in easily laid out blanks...

And it makes me wonder if I shouldn't just wait this one out. Hrm.

[elleheathen]

I'm guessing no she's not since you're asking the question and she's basically acquiesced that whatever the hell you're alluding to is correct, I'm taking that as a scum claim so just out whatever fucking results you have and stop playing fucking games I don't have the damn patience for.

Wow, take a chill pill.

You're my biggest townread. I asked you because I wanted your damn opinion. MY BAD.

And the reason I chose those four people to ask specifically, was because

they're my biggest townreads

and I wanted to know about their read on Tierce given that.

Because if Tierce is town - you need to kill me.

So no, ooba - I'm not concerned about being NK'ed. Because it benefits town for me to die if Tierce is town.

[elleheathen]

Yes, because:

I'm Ygritte. Aligned with the realm.

Most important of my abilities: I'm a fixed and permanent roleblocker.

You know nothing.

Guess who I targetted?

Tierce.

Which was part of my disengaging - because it was in the last day that I saw Tierce as town.

You need to kill me.

[elleheathen]

Does your target know that you roleblocked em?

i.e. Would your target be notified that they were roleblocked?

Not sure - doesn't say.
But just realized it wouldn't have affected Tierce on N1. Just every night after.

[elleheathen]

You use your x3?

[elleheathen]

You use your x3?

I'm

one

-shot BP. Guess who was shot N1!

I have a shared Bulletproof ability. X times during the game, I can shield myself and one other player (remember Night 1? I do!). And I know where that kill MUST go. I can protect Syryana and myself for the next

two

Nights.

So give it over. This girl has quite the name to whisper~

waitwut?

[elleheathen]

@Elle

if your target dies, can you RB again?

Yes.

^^^ I want to know that as well.

I have never seen a permanent rber. It makes much more sense to include a vanillaizer than a permanent rber unless we are looking at a spree killer. Also why use it until you are convinced someone is not town aligned? Please don't take this as being hostile, I do believe the claim (can't see elle willing to be suicidal over it). Elle just makes sense as town. Were you compulsive n1 elle?

My role is all flavor - so it doesn't specifically say 'fixed and permanent roleblocker' but that was just what I associated it with based on what it does/what I know of roles. Wasn't familiar with a vanillaizer at the time, though I've wiki'ed it now. Vanillaizer makes sense since it didn't take effect until the following night. So idk?

I was about as convinced as Tierce scum on D1 as I could get - it didn't really change until mid D3. Yeah, I debated waiting until I was positive - but I also figured that if there was a reason that

I

was that positive on someone as scum, other people would be too and they'd just be lynched.

It was a risk - I took it.

[elleheathen]

Also, I really want to know the answer to my last question.

If you mean to me, I thought I answered it? Unless I misunderstood the question...? If I did, mind rephrasing?

Does your target know that you roleblocked em?

i.e. Would your target be notified that they were roleblocked?

Not sure - doesn't say.
But just realized it wouldn't have affected Tierce on N1. Just every night after.

If you just realized that it wouldn't have affect Tierce on N1, why didn't the missing night one kill bother you?

It doesn't stop kills.

Why did you start the day voting for Zdenek? On day three you were convinced Spyrex was scum and you danced the the thread with a sign. You spent day one arguing with Thor and pushing his lynch. But you were about as convinced as one could get that Tierce was scum on day one and you don't interact with her at all? You don't vote her? You don't question her? You just nothing? Come now.

If you were just totally convinced that Tierce was scum day one, how come Post 447 is the only mention of Tierce before Post 2557 when you asked Nacho why Tierce wasn't in the lynch order after he said Tammy/Tierce are strong scum reads. Other than that the next time you mention her is when you start asking us if Tierce is town.

One, because I wasn't very

convinced

on anything until after Thor's flip. A lot of my decision to target Tierce was based on Thor's final reads and him wanting to see either her or Zdenek's flip, in combination with the weird final vote switch/Faraday doesn't do millers reasoning. I meta'd some of her games at night at it wasn't adding up - that, and because I saw her as the biggest threat if she was scum.

Two, what would have been the point in not following my other reads for scum - when I'd already done all I can to take her abilities away if she were scum? Why not focus on my next highest scumspect, since I'd already taken away what I could of what Tierce's scum abilities from my pov?

I figured the best thing I could do was let it play out until either she claimed doing something as scum that my action would have blocked - or until I thought she was town. Which I did - and why I came out telling you all the kill me because I thought her claim was truthful instead of a gambit - and that she had a chance to save herself and one other 3 times as opposed to just being one-shot BP.

@Alfred - In your 2160 reads, you have Zdenek up there in what looks like a varying degree of towny pile. Help me out and give me some insight into that one. My list looks fairly similar (at least name wise) with Z as the one exception.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is

L-2

?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever. Content or claim, imo.

Can you explain why I'm not on this post, elle?

I think the above reply answers it, as well.

{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}

this is pretty much my kill group in order

wheres tammy in this?

Tierce/Tammy are very strong scumreads.

and/or Tierce?

Wait, this is after you started Townreading me.

Please explain your train of thought on me, elle.

Truth. I was townreading you I think from your early #2300+ posts. I had Naut and Tammy as my biggest townreads at that point - so Naut having you and Tammy as a scumread threw me and was why I questioned the one on you. Didn't see the sarcasm/trolling.

[elleheathen]

VOTE: Titus

[elleheathen]

I'd like to see this particular phrase uttered and I don't really know what to think between Quadz and SD, as I had them both as tentative town. So I'll keep my vote where it is for now and see if this 'V' (Varys? ) has anything to add.

(("Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones?"))

Also,

@mod: V/LA until the 14th

- I'll still be checking in as much as possible, but still a headsup.

[elleheathen]

^second.

[elleheathen]

Still on vacation until tomorrow night but I'll be catching up as soon as I'm home.

Going to have to reread some of this because I'm still not sure what all I missed/wth happened with the whole Titus block thing? Catch up inc.

[elleheathen]

Gotta have the luck to be able to do that, G.

Titus(1) or PnJ(2):

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[elleheathen]

o0o

VOTE: PrideandJoy

[elleheathen]

Actually, if it was wrong on Thor's roll, it must be reverse luck.

VOTE: Titus

[elleheathen]

why are people unironically rolling dice to decide a vote on D5 of a large theme

?!?!

- Des

Maybe there is more than meets the eye.

[elleheathen]

Or maybe I just want to roll because I can - to use an otherwise worthless ability? /whoknows

Either way, atm - I'd be fine with either of those two.

[elleheathen]

I have a sort of working theory on the game design, though, and it -strongly- suggests Titus-scum and elle-town to a lesser degree, though. I need more info before I present it though.

Info onnnn?

[elleheathen]

How many abilities do you have total?

3

[elleheathen]

Gotta have the luck to be able to do that, G.

Titus(1) or PnJ(2):

Original Roll String: 1d2 (STATIC)

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

Who are your actual scum reads? And why aren't you actually trying to figure out this game?

This rice roll reads to me as you trying to recreate that day one reaction of oh she's town cuz of this randomness.

Those

are

my actual scumreads. Kanye is another.

And yes, I definitely wanted to revisit not only that it was scum-quads who held the opinion that I was town for that dice roll but to bring back the day I actively pushed/lynched town-Thor. Definitely.

[elleheathen]

Cool and why?

Did you have it in your memory the entire game that scum-quadz town read you for the dice roll or did you have to go back and check real quick?

Nah, I have a terribad memory. I looked back earlier to find my previous roll when making post 4103 to double check that it was at Thor and I noticed it.

My kanye read is out there. My Titus read is mostly just a continuation on my Zdenek read from the previous day, where my vote stayed. Not really sure that the overnight/explanation changes that, hence my vote there. Part of me agrees that it'd be weird of scum to choose to no kill last night just to try and earn Titus some obvious town-cred so that maybe she could clear some of them, too - but then idk, why not if they weren't expecting a vig kill - especially when their kills are getting blocked by something.

PrideandJoy is mostly gut and their weird pushes on me feel like scum baiting to see who bites - in combination with a lot of others points on PnJ that I've read recently, like Cephrir's 4089 that I kind of just nod along/agree with.

There were better reasons at some point - but they got washed up in my week+ of awayness - and again, terribad memory. I keep telling myself I'll go back and re-read but yeah, never do.

So, who are your scumreads and

why

?

[elleheathen]

Speaking of elle.

Nah, I have a terribad memory. I looked back earlier to find my previous roll when making post 4103 to double check that it was at Thor and I noticed it.

My kanye read is out there. My Titus read is mostly just a continuation on my Zdenek read from the previous day, where my vote stayed. Not really sure that the overnight/explanation changes that, hence my vote there. Part of me agrees that it'd be weird of scum to choose to no kill last night just to try and earn Titus some obvious town-cred so that maybe she could clear some of them, too - but then idk, why not if they weren't expecting a vig kill - especially when their kills are getting blocked by something.

PrideandJoy is mostly gut and their weird pushes on me feel like scum baiting to see who bites - in combination with a lot of others points on PnJ that I've read recently, like Cephrir's 4089 that I kind of just nod along/agree with.

There were better reasons at some point - but they got washed up in my week+ of awayness - and again, terribad memory. I keep telling myself I'll go back and re-read but yeah, never do.

So, who are your scumreads and why?

This post is really weird.

lol. I get that a lot.
What's weird about it?

[elleheathen]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/184733391/SCA ... 4rqxfr78jl

Those are my notes so far. I'll try to finish the rest over the weekend. If you have any questions, feel free to ask as my handwriting is a bit hard to read at points (not due to quality of scan but due to my own writing. Generally {text} are my thoughts.

lolol

All the "like wtf"s in those notes. But something about them made me feel better. I think. Maybe. Could be just the follow through on the promise (because I only scanned over it quick) but I'll bite.

VOTE: PrideandJoy

[elleheathen]

VOTE: Elle

We already have a town JOAT in safety dance.

Having three abilities does not = JOAT claim. It = having 3 abilities, 2 of which are passive.

Overly dramatic willingness to die despite having two other abilities (notwithstanding them being 'useless').

Yes, when I was under the impression that Tierce wasn't a one-shot but a 3x shared BP that could protect herself and one other overnight. I took her gambit for fact.

And yes, useless. Because:

1) Vanillaizer - not only useless but detrimental to town given the above fact of who I used it on and what I thought their ability was.

2) Ability that lets me break rules because:

Kneeler laws don't apply to me.

This is the ability that allows me to use dice.

3) Ability that made me need 2 extra votes to be lynched up until Day 4 - because D3=Book 3, to say the least.

Not exactly a JOAT, is it?

That's not even considering that a description of the ability of a standard vanillize wouldn't lead someone to advertise themselves as a permanent fixed RBer even if they didn't know what a 'vanillizer' is. They'd detail the ability.

Actually, it would - because it

did.

And that was the best way I could describe it given my knowledge (or lackthereof) of roles and what the ability did without copying my role PM.

[elleheathen]

Spoiler: If Garruk flips scum

C: {SpyreX, Quadz, Garruk}
E: 2 of {Messiah Complex, SafetyDance, Titus}?

And even if I'm wrong about E\C and it's just C- Garruk still decent bet for SpyreX,Quadz scumbuddy

Forgive me, but E/C = ?


Also, I can't find it for the life of me atm but someone asked about the extent of the rule breaking ability. The answer is just D4.

[elleheathen]

I wish.

Also, I can't find it for the life of me atm but someone asked about the extent of the rule breaking ability.

The answer is just D4.

D4)

Any methods of verifiable randomness are forbidden

. This includes dice tags. Don't use them.

[elleheathen]

+1 here to the Goat numbers since they're L-2

[elleheathen]

Elle, control + F yields approximately one hit on "Tierce" day 1. If you were going to permanently roleblock her, then why the hell didn't you mention anything about her D1?

Didn't get here in time to reply with this the other day, though it was already answered:

Why did you start the day voting for Zdenek? On day three you were convinced Spyrex was scum and you danced the the thread with a sign. You spent day one arguing with Thor and pushing his lynch. But you were about as convinced as one could get that Tierce was scum on day one and you don't interact with her at all? You don't vote her? You don't question her? You just nothing? Come now.

If you were just totally convinced that Tierce was scum day one, how come Post 447 is the only mention of Tierce before Post 2557 when you asked Nacho why Tierce wasn't in the lynch order after he said Tammy/Tierce are strong scum reads. Other than that the next time you mention her is when you start asking us if Tierce is town.

One, because I wasn't very

convinced

on anything until after Thor's flip. A lot of my decision to target Tierce was based on Thor's final reads and him wanting to see either her or Zdenek's flip, in combination with the weird final vote switch/Faraday doesn't do millers reasoning. I meta'd some of her games at night at it wasn't adding up - that, and because I saw her as the biggest threat if she was scum.

Two, what would have been the point in not following my other reads for scum - when I'd already done all I can to take her abilities away if she were scum? Why not focus on my next highest scumspect, since I'd already taken away what I could of what Tierce's scum abilities from my pov?

I figured the best thing I could do was let it play out until either she claimed doing something as scum that my action would have blocked - or until I thought she was town. Which I did - and why I came out telling you all the kill me because I thought her claim was truthful instead of a gambit - and that she had a chance to save herself and one other 3 times as opposed to just being one-shot BP.

[elleheathen]

I feel like this is an attempt to pit town vs town.
Do not like.

[elleheathen]

First, thanks Tierce.

Second,

I feel like this is an attempt to pit town vs town.
Do not like.

What does this even mean?

That I think Alfred is town.

There's more I want to get to but been swamped with Turkey Day stuffs.

[elleheathen]

Elle, control + F yields approximately one hit on "Tierce" day 1. If you were going to permanently roleblock her, then why the hell didn't you mention anything about her D1?

Where were you a couple days ago when I was asking this...invisible!

You asked in 3410. I answered in 3450. - And again in 4644. Who's invisible?

[elleheathen]

Gah, sorry Faraday (and all). Didn't think the long weekend would be this damn... long.

V/LA though until Wednesday (4th).

UHM.
I could really get behind either of those votes. Benmage or TA. I'll go with:

VOTE: The Alchemist

[elleheathen]

I want the Alchemist voters to talk more about his actions and what they think happened there.
Is the Alchemist scum who had an extra kill ability and decided to give it to town despite having a couple good targets?
In particular Tierce claimed to have Awesome Planz for the shot, so the notion that some kind of "none of our names are out there" logic was in effect is pretty eh.
Or you can take the Tierce / Alchemist put on a show angle, which would be better if Tierce weren't Certifiable Town.

Some kind of "I think this is what happened in scumland that led to the above" from Elle, SD, Ceph / the others would be good.

It's about to move but I'll answer this anyway.

My vote was less about specifics of night actions because hell, I still don't know what exactly happened with the coin BS (although, I will say that I never thought of it as an extra kill ability that they could use as much as an ability they had to give away for it to be used?)- and more 'fell into my lynch pool' of:

The Alchemist
Benmage
kanye
Titus

I'd vote any of them - but there's a Tierce vote to be sheeped now - and I like it better.

VOTE: kanye