A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[SpyreX]

He asked me to replace into an 85 page game.
He didn't say it was an 85 page game on DAY TWO.

This is gonna take me a bit guys. I'm working on a full reread but work reblocked mafiascum like jerks so it might take a bit

[SpyreX]

I'm up to page whole twelve and I hop across to see this?

This is too perfect for too many reasons.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[SpyreX]

Better. At least you're talking his language. Could do with more skulls for the skull throne and taunting about boring ass vanilla cats, but it'll do, I guess.

There never will be enough taunting about boring ass vanilla cats. Never.

But I did get to catch up and so it begins:

THESE PEOPLE

:
Alfred Borden
Goat on a Raft
kanyeknowsbest
Nautilius
Prideandjoy
SafetyDance

NEED TO KILL THESE PEOPLE:

AGar
elleheathen
ooba
StupendousMan
Syryana
The Alchemist
Zdenek

AND SEPARATE THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF HERE:

Benmage
Cephrir
Garruk Relentless
Messiah Complex
quadz08
Shadoweh
Tammy
Tierce

I am super, super confident about the town grouping there. At MOST, and thats a most, there's 1 scum there. If I could nuke the rest of this game right now I would and watch the victories pour in.

The chaff is a little trickier. All in all of that group I think Tierce & quadz are most probably town. Garruk will really depend on the way things shake out, Shadow and Tammy I can't tell if its a distaste from the raw amount of tickling eachother early or the fact that they feel like a hydra displaced that makes me all bloodthirsty. Cephrir and Benmage are my two bipolar reads this game and I want someone to tell me for sure which way to go. Messiah I can barely remember and I just read the game.

As for the last group. I will immediately and without hesitation hammer any of them. My preferences are slightly in favor of AGar, Elle and Zdenek.
AGar for the combination of andruis's half-hearted attempt that was called out by benmage (and if AGar is scum, Benmage is town writ large) and 1140. Especially:

SafetyDance and his 10 scum reads can go pound salt, because that's about what that's worth. 10? The fuck, Faraday, why is there an almost 1:1 town scum ratio in this game?
Oh wait....
[sarcasm]The fuck, Faraday, why is there an almost 1:1 town scum ratio in this game?[/sarcasm]

I know I get replacement powers of reading that in one fell swoop but it took about 30 seconds to see what SD was doing. SD's problems (and redemption) came much later and and that point this is posturing. Also putting mac in the murder list is super itchy.

Elle was in the chaff pile until today. This wombo-combo:

@Alfred - In your 2160 reads, you have Zdenek up there in what looks like a varying degree of towny pile. Help me out and give me some insight into that one. My list looks fairly similar (at least name wise) with Z as the one exception.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is L-2?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever. Content or claim, imo.

Not just stupid - intentional.

VOTE: Spyrex

Is enough. It takes a particularly ticklish brand of stones to call out the hammer even if it was fast. Someone with more time: I'd love to see if there was activity from anyone on the wagon after Garruk posted and BEFORE I hammered.

Zdenek doesn't get giant sets of quotes. His whole interaction around Thor early isn't natural. 400 and 401 are baad news.

The thor lynch hurts my head, but I will say this: its the right brand of hurt that I bet that is a way heavy town wagon. When VCA time comes, remember that.

And as for yesterdays hammer. Yea, I was only on 12. Now that I'm all caught up the only thing that would have given me pause is that there is no flips.

And I say pause. Because I would have still done it. Amrun was in my notes (which if someone reaaaaaaly wants to see and laugh at I guess I can post) from post 1 and that never changed. Riding the lurking dragon doesn't change that.

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

[SpyreX]

Spy that's a decent post with some stuff in it, and the ponits on Elle are good. However, I don't understand your point on AGar (that case on SD was perfectly valid, and he was far from the only person to make it; why is he the only one that gets called out on it?), and possibly more importantly, you're now justifying your hammer with "well now that I have read the whole game, I still would have done it." That's not a reason to do it in the first place, and I don't think there's town motivation to do so without having read the whole game.

My vote stays for now. (I am not jumping on a growing Ooba wagon, guys, this is how bad I think Spy's hammer was.)

In what universe is that case on SD 'perfectly valid'? There are some who were on him that were more legit than others, but parroting the volume of scum reads as some kind of magic tell sarcasm font isn't it. I didn't even blink an eye at it catching up.

I'm not 'justifying' it. I had reasons but even if I didn't I probably would have taken it - I'm just sayin after the fact I dont feel bad about it. If it was some kind of really bad wagon I shot through I'd have felt bad, at least. It is what it is. Replace into a hammer early? I'm takin it almost every time. This time it was just even more perfect.

@SpyreX: Why the scum read on Syryana\The Alchemist?

A better question for everyone else apparently - why not?
I have to assume there's some secret ~meta~ or something because that iso is a lot of nothing. The ONE post that really seems to be doing anything is a discussion about Cephrir being scum because ~~sweet meta~~.
That slot is "that guy" who is always around at the parties but manages to duck out before the bill shows up.

LOL.

You should probably just self-vote.

I'm really confused about why so many people are saying thinks like Spyrex is bad, but LOL we can forgive him, vote someone else.

It's making me nervous.

LOL FORCED LOL LOLOL

I seriously would love to see this turn into vapor before the sun sets. With furious vengeance.

In other news kkb is nostradamus per 2329 vs 2331

Erm, ok, how are you arriving at any sort of conclusion w.r.t. that wagon given that the wagon formed basically out of deadline rush?

Because the end of Day 1 is the kind of thing the scum-sandman sends to good baby scums each night when they deserve extra happy dreams.

Assuming you're not under heat as scum the only thing better than a bad lynch is no lynch at all. Given their druthers, scum would have left that claim alive forever. That end-of-day mad push was very town feeling most of the way through.

[SpyreX]

Ohh meta.

Tierce remind me after this game there's a few things I want to soapbox about.

[SpyreX]

I am struggling to find the words to describe how I feel about your comment on someone having the "balls" to call out your hammer. I guess the best way to put it is that you must have a brass set yourself to try and make someone out to be the reactionary one when your action was questionable at best and a pure scum move at worst. You admit that you were 12 pages deep when you flipped over to the last page to see Amrun at L-1 and, lucky day, hammered.

I also like the fact that you ask someone with more time to investigate what activity happened in thread after Garruk gave intent to hammer and your hammer, like there was so much activity that it would be impossible for you to wade through. Two posts were made in between his intent and your hammer. Two. One of them was a vote count update from the Mod, the other was a quick question from Cephrir. Then you pop in and hammer. And what excuse do you have for this action? A Monday Morning QB read on Amrun that you made postmortem and a vague reference to hammers relating to your role. We think that the reason that you are unable to adequately explain yourself is because there was no town motivation behind what you did. You cut short a townies ability to post when they had said they were going to, and someone else had already called them out and put a deadline on their activity. Hell, if you wanted to hammer you still could have after giving Amrun some time to complete the post she said she was doing. Does your role say anything about not being able to declare intent, or preventing them from claiming. The only reason we can figure you hammering the way you did was to prevent Amrun from being able to reveal any information that could be beneficial to the rest of us.

We believe that there is credence to the theory that Peace replaces out as scum where he wouldn't as town, and see his reason for replacing out to be suspect. Adding that to the absolute void that was displaced, and the abomination of a hammer and subsequently shitty response to town reactions from Spy there is no dissidence when we

Unvote
Vote: Spy

I'll quote this even though its to both of you.

Yea, I expect 'heat' or fake /emo or what have you but

being on the wagon

and coming out takes stones. If you're gonna late vote, you want it dead.

And lets not forget the fact that she was active and posting on site after Garruk said 12 hours to hammer. If there was time for squemishness then would have been when to slide off.

You dont get to be on it and tsk, tsk when things dont work out.

[SpyreX]

Not they.

You. YOU posted after garruk said 12 hours. You were on, saw it at L-1 and went "swelp, this is fine".

Nah I hammered because it helps the sweet sweet candy. I just dont feel bad after actually catching up.

[SpyreX]

Actually. How did you EVER think I was talking about Amrun from what I said?

Even more important, in a game where the role has nothing to do with the alignment, why were you pushing for a

claim

?

[SpyreX]

No, I did not. My last post in this thread is at 12:08 - 35 minutes before the L-1. Cephrir is the only person to post (besides a VC) in between the L-1, Garruk's 12 hour warning, and your hammer.

Because it'd take a 'particularly ticklish brand of stones' to insinuate that because I was posting in other games that that somehow means that I was lurking here instead of just posting in my other games. Maybe you should take a look at the content of those posts in those games to which you think I'm lurking with instead of involved in those games.

You know, besides the fact even if I had seen it - there was still 12 hours hence from a stated intent.
You say it was because of 'reasons' - yet the only reason I see to hammer something that already has intent on it, is to prevent us from getting the information we were waiting on from Amrun. Did you get what you wanted from your 'reasons'?

I dont care

what you were posting. You were clearly on. You announced the L-2, you knew what was happening.

And if you don't know what my reasons were then *claps hands*. But, that makes sense because this is all shadowboxing right now.

Oh, come now.

No. How, from my words would you get I was talking about Amrun ?

And, if its the latter no way. You vote to make people dead. You dont vote for a claim. She didn't even say it was a lolpressure vote to get the fabled content. It was for the claim and in the best of worlds that stinks to high heaven.

[SpyreX]

I don't see why she (or anyone, including me) wouldn't think that "I have a scumread on Amrun" is one of those "too many reasons".

As for the latter, no. Not everyone votes for a lynch. Ask the majority of the people in the Amrun wagon; people wanted to see content out of her, and pressure is one way to achieve it. But that wasn't even my point, my point was that a claim, flavor and role, may not only be relevant for alignment (as Faraday games have plenty of informative/investigative/knowledgeable roles that can confirm other people), but also, roles don't flip. It HELPS to have claims before lynches, and what a person claims to have DONE with their role is indeed relevant to alignment. You're neglecting all these very sensible, Town-based aspects relevant to someone wanting a claim in a uPick to try and paint elleheathen's stance as scummy.

I need to stop posting when I'm way too tired. I skip logical leaps.

The former was talking about the discussion we were just having when I said it would take some serious stones to be on that wagon and then play up shock and awe that it happened. I made reference to

her

being on that wagon. Somehow that turned into talking about "misrepping the dead" which after rereading

still doesn't make any sense

contextually. Its shadowboxing.

The pressure thing? Even if the argument is "votes for pressure" there's no magic switch between L-3 and L-2 thats going to make someone committing nothing go "ohh gee golly, NOW is the time."

But, EVEN THEN:

@Alfred - In your 2160 reads, you have Zdenek up there in what looks like a varying degree of towny pile. Help me out and give me some insight into that one. My list looks fairly similar (at least name wise) with Z as the one exception.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is L-2?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever.

Content or claim, imo.

This isn't pressure. This is for death (or "claim"). Its not "I want more content or they need to die." It is "I want to lynch them and additionally some more content before they are lynched".

Which, in and of itself is fine.

What isn't, and I guess when I through my hammer I should have put my super secret breadrcumb that said "THE SCUM ON THIS WAGON WILL VOTE ME TOMORROW IF THIS ISNT A PRO HAMMER ON SCUM" because voting for the wagon and then tsk, tsk voting after is the path of least resistance. Hell, when she voted she was already placing 'blame' on all her town reads being on the wagon.

--------------

That isn't what irony is and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable.

And what I presented isn't "logic," it's evidence--that scum can and will take opportunities to quickhammer if it benefits them, especially if they think they can talk their way out of it on the other side (which Spyrex clearly does). And given the limited information Spy has provided, the quickhammer only benefitted him as scum.

I'm going to reiterate that: the quickhammer only benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

If he really was town whose power hinges on his having the (or multiple) hammer(s), he could have just...waited. And hammered later. But he didn't. Because he's scum.

Ok, since I'm not convinced yet this is a scum crusade we'll go ahead and lay it out like this:

If I were to go through my game history and find examples of me doing exactly this as either alignment (I may? have even done this as cult and SK before) - what is your new argument? You've laid down an absolute, and short of some form of "bad player lolz" I'm not seeing your exit strategy.

If that isn't good enough and this game is going to continue I'll make you one more offer: If I am lynched and flip town, you get lynched next. Are you that committed to this nonsense?

If not, take a step back and look whats happening. You want to come at me for actual reasons, fine. This stops.

-----

ALL that said, I still don't prefer elle. Zdnek is my new preference over Agar by a ttinnny margin because 2429 is at least looking at what is happening. It could still be scum playing the long game but that doesn't seem smart when someone wants you dead a lot.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

[SpyreX]

This is a prod response. I've had 30 hours in the last 2 days, I can't brain even a little.

[SpyreX]

Curiosity SpyreX: You want me dead for the L-1 vote or for general play? Trying to get a gauge on who's actually, y'know, pursuing a case, and who's afraid to take on a POWERFUL WIZARD so taking the copout vote.

Not for the L-1. Aint nothing wrong with that. I really didn't like Andrius and I really didn't like your early play. I will admit, and maybe its because you're rubbing my ego's belly and making it purr, I'm starting to get hesitation because defending me when people are clamoring for blood doesn't make a lick of sense scumwise.

---

I need someone else to reparse whatever the hell is going on between quadz and Naut because it reads like white noise.

---

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

No.

The fact that it even crossed your mind to offer this sort of deal when you (presumably) don't know my alignment is scummy as fuck. With that said, if you were to miraculously flip town, I would do the same thing I do every other time I lead a mislynch--forget about it and get back to finding scum.

- Des

On some level I'm not surprised. So, the exit strategy is flailing about and after all the spittle is done, just pretending it didn't happen. Gotcha.

I'm not saying I'm town because lol meta. I'm saying that when your argument is ONLY SCUM WOULD EVER DO THIS THING and you're patently wrong and easily proved such, what are you going to do? You that committed to your nonsense that'd you take a rope for it? Nah, course not, cause that would be a hard stance and better get back to finding scum.

However today is not the time to waste on an ostrich, that can come later.

*passes through with a Spyrex For Scum picket sign*

Wooosh.

The thimble holding the actual content from you today is awful empty.

SpyreX, why aren't you voting... moreover why not Agar?

Are you town?

Because I want sweet sweet hammers yo. I think its clear where I would be going.

Zednek is a horrible lynch. I don't have have the same level of confidence with AGar but he shouldn't be today's lynch too.

I actually like Messiah's recent play.

TheAlchemist really needs to start playing soon. Also what does "Glass Towers" mean in the below line?

I will underline this so it doesn't get lost:

He's talking about other wagons while voting the "lead" wagon. He's not even pretending to try and push through his vote.

If Zdenek is scum, lynch ooba.

{SpyreX, Zdenek, The Alchemist, AGar, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless}

this is pretty much my kill group in order

Goat is town. Just believe. If today ends up being me and stupid please remember that for the futures.

Splitting posts because tldr.

[SpyreX]

So now, the actual not catching up part.

If, IF, I go today I want it to at least be on the back of real wagons. These floater votes either need to drum up or get with a program. There's way too many scattered votes at this point and toooooo many people getting away without committing to whats going on.

That's one thing I like about AGars recent set - he's went hard and fast on me being town. I don't "get" the angle and I need someone to help explain to me scum-Agar's motive. I really, really think a scum-zd flip means AGar town (almost as much as it means ooba-scum).

elle took the low bar and went under it with the last posts. Benmage looks even more town which is good.

Unovte, Vote: Zdenek

I want to make these compete. If this gets big enough, I am going to reposition for hammers, but if I have to stop the Y U NO VOTE there you go.

I will say that cursory view the AGar wagon looks a lot more town than mine in composition. I feel like there's something in the way these votes are spread that I'm missing, but I can't even get my fingers around it.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, why place a vote seemingly without reason?

SSK

Go reread, if you think thats without reason.

I wouldn't be horribly opposed, but I'm very very reluctant to move from one scum to the other when spyspy keeps showing up and disappointing me. Like I read ahead and noticed his "oh put Goat in town if I die" but I don't need him to die to see Goat is town I just need him to be town and then explain it to me. I might be willing to let him go another day based on your peacebringer read, but spyspy going another day based on an endorsement does not leave me feeling awesomely or like I'm racing towards an excellent scumlynch.

Why not? I'd defend you in a nacho-scum, SpyreX-town situation; it's likely that you'll be able to throw the wagon off you because you're SpyreX, and then I wouldn't be in the dog house when the tables were turned. I much prefer kanye's defense of your slot of AGar's; AGar's is attacking the quickhammer = scum logic which is obviously wrong but kanye is actually going "no, the slot is town".

Yeah that SpyreX quote was bullshit.

My time is limited, and based on how this game has went doing an analysis on

why someone is town

when the extent of what I'm getting on the other side is very, very limited is, was and will be a waste of my time. Doubly so when you've got a halfie about me being scum. So, instead, if this goes awry maybe then you'll actually relook at it. This is prep for down, down, down the road.

While kkb's read is good, the fact AGar is attacking the quickhammer = scum logic is the majority of the "wagon" on me. The bullshit they cover it with still comes down to "ohh there's a wagon." AGar is solid enough to know that even if he's successful chances are high that same pack of wolves jumps that way.

As for that being bullshit, well, we'll just see. Talking about the "lesser" wagons parked on the main one without trying to actually push that anywhere? That, ser, is the bullshit.

Mark it, Zdenek flips scum, ooba flips scum.

[SpyreX]

I can happily listen to your towncases when I have a halfie about you being scum. I'm one of those crazy people who will sometimes listen to people even when 100% convinced they are scum, especially when that person is SpyreX!

Well, fine. Please lord don't make this end up wasted words.

Even if you want to disregard the statement at start (which is still pretty town and I dont see the scum4cred angle).

The other components early that I liked was the stance on thor and safetydance AND stupendousman. That doesn't look like scum manuvering with the wolves, that reads honest through and through (and without hesitation on the SM vote which is the right move there).

While I dont agree, I at least understand the back and forth with Thor landing on that switch to SD. I like the vote for elle out of the gate.

Moreso, and this is that gut. Its the feel. He's addressing concerns without letting it break his stride (something I can't even do) in that very natural ebb and flow way. Its not the mechanical collection, but the more confident? stride that I haven't seen many scum be able to emulate.

A good difference is look at Zdenek's every response. Its trying to have that stride but its so fake and bipolar its closer to falling on its own face.

---

Of course if The Alchemist = Syr I'd be alllllll for that too.

[SpyreX]

A bad time to have work rear its ugly head.

I'm Samwell Tarly.

I'm trying to get my maesters chains. The hammer got me enough that I got my first power - non-consecutive doctor. I used on on PnJ last night.

I haven't had enough time to play as much as I want and I even warned mr mod when I joined in it was going to be tough but hopefully at the very least team Hammers R Scum and the bandwagon speed here actually get some notice.

Mark my word about ooba and zdenek. The other things can shift, but I am right positive about the town reads.

Good luck. Actually force real cases from now on because I think if Naut had to commit this to actual words, this wouldn't have happened.

[SpyreX]

I may be able to shed some more light, maybe.

This may be hard to do because I'm trying to not lead a fish to water:

Is there any special terms in the description of your ability?

[SpyreX]

Pretty sure I'm dead now, so that's kind of moot. I'd like SOME activity before it gets locked.

[SpyreX]

And kkb you're always a bro <3

[SpyreX]

More to the alchemist, Tierce.

KKB: I've read everything once, but its been a lot of catchup posts. Work is kicking my ass and I know it plays a part.

[SpyreX]

I can't see any reason why you'd counterclaim in twilight, but lets just be sure:
You're claiming Samwell Tarly Kat?

[SpyreX]

No, I'm saying zdenek is scum and ooba who is for death anyways really looks like he forgot what he was doing in trying to massage that zdenek wagon away.

Zdenek flips scum, kill ooba. And the other way but zdenek is far more likely.

Ok, what the hell did I miss?

[SpyreX]

I thought cephrir's thing was day two. I remembered it, but didn't 'remember' it. I didn't even notice the prod.

But, considering deadline is a day away and all the faith I have it really doesn't change much.

Only difference is I want Kat to not teehee and counterclaim the role. If thats the case and she dies zd and ooba die and the town block kills everyone else I dont really 'care' about the lynch.

If we needed any more proof on the ooba front he's now implied that Messiah and I are scum together. Think about that.

OHH BUT THE HYDRA MISSED IT YOURS WAS AN ACT HURBABABLURB

[SpyreX]

I will probably be back home approximately 22 hours from now. I can TRY to check before end if there's anything else to add.

[SpyreX]

And I make it back late to this.

I'm not surprised and that's kind of the saddest part.

[SpyreX]

Actually, more than anything I'm sorry i took it on. I knew it'd be hard to manage with how busy things have been. I did a disservice to the mod.

However, I wouldn't even have to be in the game to be convinced ooba's being a toolbox.

[SpyreX]

And Tarly? GOD ITS THE CATS ALL OVER AGAIN

Next up I'll end up in a transformers game and be god damn bumblebee

[SpyreX]

You are Bumblebee. You will never have the Matrix. Why do you even have a spot for it? Put some 8 tracks in there or something, cause you being useful is right out. Go ride around with your buddy Chip.



I did have a sweet ass passive for lylo.

But, we'll never know now.

[SpyreX]

Anyways I'm up in 5 hours for more work. YES.

So, good luck and may the Others take every one of you that deserve it.

YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

[SpyreX]

I read it all. I'm still not sure what happened.

This was quite a game.

[SpyreX]

Lynching thor was silly, and I hold to that.