Micro 231: Mismatching Flavor Mafia (Game Over!)

[morph the cat]

hi guys.

fery here and catching up.

[morph the cat]

Hey how about no more damned claiming until I am caught up?

[morph the cat]

Don't like Cabd/ffery hydra, we need more from him/her.

Why did you hammer if you were so concerned about more content from us?

[morph the cat]

@Cat: Gut didn't like him. Plus, this progression pinged me. Second quote is like he 'knows' Guyett will flip town by saying "scum won't kill you." But before that, he had just said that Guyett is his strongest scumread.

I didn't phrase my question well. Why did you hammer so soon after I replaced in? I'm a quick read. In a thread with less than 30 pages I'd be caught up enough to start asking questions within a few hours of my first post.

I'm mostly annoyed that the lynch happened before I could develop an opinion about Lucky2u.

[morph the cat]

Somebody want to explain their case on Beast?

[morph the cat]

I'm a quick read. In a thread with less than 30 pages I'd be caught up enough to start asking questions within a few hours of my first post.

so now that youre caught up, what are your reads?

R~

Which head are you?

[morph the cat]

Indeed it didn't. I'm going to interact for a bit before I put down reads.

IIRC I figured L~ for Mara.

[morph the cat]

I didn't phrase my question well. Why did you hammer so soon after I replaced in? In a thread with less than 30 pages I'd be caught up enough to start asking questions within a few hours of my first post.

Empty promises from cabd...Lucky's last post was really really bad and almost made me forget about everyone else.

You are not a quick read, where did you get that from - remember our last game? You took several days until you let us hear your thought processes...

Not true. Go back and look. I was asking people why they were voting JKLM as soon as I finished my first read through, and in fact got Mutley to unvote a few hours after I joined the game. I didn't post a reads list until a couple days later but I put a ton of thought process into the thread prior to that, and my first reads list shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

I'm mostly annoyed that the lynch happened before I could develop an opinion about Lucky2u.

You subbed in last-minute, amongst the noise, and Cabd's deliberation was SOOOO overcontemplative

Why did he avoid interacting with us for the majority of the day??

I don't think he was avoiding interaction. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but he's had reasons to be bummed out about mafia in general over the last week or so, and prior to that he was on V/LA. He and I were hydraing in another game that ended right after his camping trip. I was carrying Morph through the V/LA period, which scared the crap out of me because it was a scum game and we were playing an insane gambit that I didn't think I could carry off if suspicion swung back our way.

[morph the cat]

I don't remember you being this interested about getting reads done and input in so quickly.

I'm actually assuaged to see you interrogate me like this

I expected you to take more than plenty of time to help us out if you're town, but with a delay.... that's all

have you gotten in the game yet??

I've read through it, but was pretty bummed that day 1 ended before I had a chance to contribute. I'm going through some ISOs this morning. Expect a wall or two (or what passes for walls) in a bit.

[morph the cat]

morph, there are like 2 pages of people trying to guess heads.

beast - Leaning scum. I feel like he is being opportunistic. And it didn't seem like he cared much about finding information. But, something feels really wrong with this read and it's bothering me. I can't pinpoint it exactly.

What about this has changed since you are voting me now?

You feel that his vote indicates something has changed?

[morph the cat]

Reading through Guyett's ISO made me go back through the lead-up to Bert hammering Lucky. Guyett encouraged the hammer in 675.

I don't get why this became such a hurry.

[morph the cat]

I don't get why this became such a hurry.

Sorry guys, gut kept screaming scum for Lucky, especially towards the end. That, along with one of my stronger townreads thinking along the same lines... Ffery, you should know that I've always sheeped my townreads if I'm having trouble reading people worth anything... much less if I have a gut scumread of my own on TOP of that

Putting my thinking caps on...

The bulk of this game will come down to POE...I do worry that one of the people widely regarded as a townread is scum though, but that's wayyyyy far in the back of me mind

Let's have lots and lots of discussion today, then, since you claim to be so bummed out! <3

Works for me.

THAT SAID, what do you think of Guyett? You clearly disapprove of his encouraging a hammer.

I have him as leaning town based on his interactions with Brian, but that read is shaky because I didn't like his interactions with Lucky2u.

I am pushing you now because I EXPECT YOU TO LIST who your candidates are. Then I can SEE if it reads like a scum's reads list.ASAP. I don't have any meaningful experience with charizard or your other hydra-head, in particular. All of Cabd's posts about "I don't have time for this, especially since you all criticized my walls"...

Push all you want. I play at my pace.

it's hard to tell if he is avoiding serious play as scum by being this way. It was SO freakin blatant!!

I'll leave that for Cabd to answer if he feels it's not been answered already.

If you're town here by any chance, I do not want to feel a disconnect between us like in 1415. It will not come down to that. As that'll affect your game AND MINE, and I will start getting paranoid about you REGARDLESS because of your indecisiveness.

You did knock me off my game in 1415. I don't think that will happen again any time soon.

[morph the cat]

Mara, your thoughts about VA?

[morph the cat]

BERTBERTBERT

YOU'RE SCUM AREN'T YOU, AREN'T YOU!?

~L

That's similar to what Syryana said as scum in Masons and Monks QT - see post 5 in the QT.

"Syryana
07-20-2013
01:26 PM ET (US)
You cheeky little fucker! You're a werewolf, aren't you. AREN'T YOU"

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/LwF5RER5Lqph

@Guyett: Mara is paranoid about me everywhere because she misread me in Mini 1482

So which is it you are thinking? Paranoid or scum?

[morph the cat]

I have no one else to vote for right now so I figured I would see what everyone else thought of my vote.

so you townread everyone else?

R~

Beast I want to see your answer to the above. Also want to see more of your reasoning for scumreading Guyett.

[morph the cat]

Are we really still going to condone this Saki play on Day 2?

You had VA as null yesterday, I think. Has your read changed?

[morph the cat]

You had VA as null yesterday, I think. Has your read changed?

Tell me how to read VA and I'll tell you. The slot is a goddamn joke.

We're most likely at 5-2 today. We don't have the luxury of lynching jokes unless they are scum jokes.

[morph the cat]

You had VA as null yesterday, I think. Has your read changed?

Tell me how to read VA and I'll tell you. The slot is a goddamn joke.

We're most likely at 5-2 today. We don't have the luxury of lynching jokes unless they are scum jokes.

And this is why I'm currently voting my best scumread.

I realize that. But, you looked like you were considering a change to VA, or at least feeling out the interest level. I couldn't see anything in your ISO that suggested you're scum-reading him now.

[morph the cat]

@Brian Yeah, that's what I meant by the last part - your read on VA, which at the last point you had talked about him prior to the post I quoted, it looked like you were null-reading him.


@VA, what are your current reads?

[morph the cat]

I'm asking anyway.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Brian Skies

wrong answer

You look like you are forcing part of your town meta.

[morph the cat]

I think Assassin is town along with Morph and Shiny. Brian is odd to me and I know I am town.

Why are VA and Morph town?

Why am I odd? Does being odd make me scum? You were willing to vote me earlier for just being odd.

You are null on PoE. If I am wrong on one of my scum reads then you are next in line to be scum right now.

I like how they are posting. Morph came in for Cabd IIRC and have been doing a lot of questioning and things I consider to be town. VA I just don't think is scum.

What does "odd" mean? What specifically are you finding odd about Brian?

[morph the cat]

Also, Ffery, it has been three days, why no reads list yet? You're being rather passive, and you haven't voiced a scumread yet like you did in 1415 where you said you thought Jason was scum and that I was an alternate scumread. I don't like that.

Putting reads together Friday helped me focus on players and questions for them. I'll post the list after I get these initial lines of questioning resolved.

Unless you guys want to see a WiP list?

[morph the cat]

I've spent a day trying to reach out to Saki to try to get him to give us more

And I spent one post telling Beast to step it up if he's town and stop using Nacho dying as an excuse

I'm not a messiah and I don't help or fix things, but there is something called compassion rather than being a cold-blooded zombie all game

because I've been there where I flaked because Nacho died

seriously, stop that

Sounds like you're projecting.

[morph the cat]

where did beast even use nacho dying as an excuse?

youre so fake it isnt funny

R~

I'm sorry you feel that way

That was 100% genuine FYI

And look at 771

ffery, I don't know what projecting is

But he said he was sad that nacho died and hasnt looked back or something

What post are you talking about? His first one after day 2 started?

As far as projecting, it looks like you're reading into his posts based on how you've felt in other games?

[morph the cat]

selfmeta too?

awesome.

R~

R~, meet Bert.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Brian Skies

wrong answer

You look like you are forcing part of your town meta.

whut

Yaah that whole be uncooperative to the point where anti-town vs scummy becomes a blurred line, draw someone into voting you and then turning around with a great big OMGUS.

You're doing it, but it's coming off tryhard.

[morph the cat]

Town

(more or less in order of read strength)

Brian Skies - strongest town read, playing transparently. Reading through, I had concerns about the day 1 1v1 thing, and also had concerns when he basically agreed that his interactions with Shiny had been scummy-looking, because apologetic posts about looking scummy do that to me. But, on second read, it wasn't apologetic so much as accepting accountability. His day 2 posts have mostly been solid, though I'm concerned about anything that sounds like policy lynch on the doorstep of LYLO.

Shiny Hydregion - interactions with Brian and with Mononoke mostly. (post 748 knocked this read down for Cabd. Why is the risk worth mentioning for Saki? It's the case for any mislynch today.)

Bert - willingness to engage with me, wariness after severely misreading me in a recent game. Some of his posts seem contradictory and AtE, but mostly looks like a feature of his scumhunting style. Hammered town. Would he do that as scum with a few days left on the clock?

Guyett - weakest town read. Pushed the Lucky2u lynch pretty hard, though.

Scum

beastcharizard - 726 "no one else to vote for" post pinged. (Mostly a fferyllt read. Cabd had a town read yesterday, but it's weakened based on the Guyett vote/reason)

Viera Assassin - low content overall. 281 "killing off big liabilities", 698 no time to tunnel so parking vote post pinged. The baiting and then OMGUS of Brian looks pretty damn scummy.

[morph the cat]

(post 748 knocked this read down for Cabd. Why is the risk worth mentioning for Saki? It's the case for any mislynch today.

and why wasnt this mentioned when it happened? it makes it look like you thought of it right now.

anyway i had better scumreads than saki at the time and i did not want to policy lynch someone who will likely flip town and put us into lylo. right now im lost and the other heads dont have any problem with lynching him and ensuring he wont be present in lylo so i no longer oppose it either.

R~

We talked about it yesterday when I drafted this. Cabd can pursue it if it still concerns him when he's unpacked and settled in back at home. His camping trip was interrupted by a flash flood evacuation today. I'm following my own lines of questioning and I'm pretty satisfied you're town.

I'm not entirely happy with Beast's responses, but his promised reads list should help in sorting him.

[morph the cat]

No, Cabd has been absent since sometime Friday.

I don't pretend to be able to accurately meta you, Saki. You've changed up and aren't playing to at least some of your meta, but this is a theme I've seen play out before. It's a town theme, but it doesn't look the same. Maybe because you're posting so little overall.

I'm not voting you. I most likely won't vote you unless Cabd thinks I'm right about what you are doing.

[morph the cat]

Clarification: Absent from this game. We haven't talked about it since sometime Friday. I have seen him post here and there.

[morph the cat]

describe my townmeta and how I'm trying so hard to play to it

Tunneling
Blatantly antitown crap, especially post-slutting and uncooperative responses to requests for useful content for reading you
Intentionally drawing policy-style votes and rounding on the person who votes you.

I feel like you've stripped away some aspects of your town game here. And I think that's a global change, not specific to this game. The OMGUS reactions don't look particularly natural in the absence of those other aspects of your game as I've seen it before.

The counterattack on Brian was shitty, horrible and scummy-looking.

[morph the cat]

No, i will explain them. But why didn't you ask Guyett to explain his?

Any time now would be good.

[morph the cat]

Sorry for my absence, guys. Camping trip ended with flash flood, and then jury duty today. Life is just fucking with me at this point. I'm baaaaaack nao though.

9. Viera Assassin - Null
Mostly gut. I don't know much about Saki except what others have told me. They haven't done anything I deemed scummy. Because of my changing my Bert read I am not comfortable with putting Saki as town.

Holy shit, you really are scum with saki aren't you? I was townreading you day one but everything you've done today has been a great lakes' worth of pondscum.

Let me translate for the other players how to read that:

9. Viera Assassin - Null
I am scum with this player and need some shit filler to justify a null read here.

VOTE: beast

[morph the cat]

cabd mind lynching saki first?

R~

Maybe. You got some reasoning there... mara, I assume?

wait, morph is a cabd hydra?

Yes. It's cabd and ffery. I just

suck at town alone

brought in the heavy guns.

[morph the cat]

1. Cat - Null subs always are null for me.
2. Guyett - scum
5. Brian Skies - town PoE
7. Shiny Hydreigon - town
8. Bert - Scum
9. Viera Assassin - town

Going to bed so this is what you get.

1. Cat - Null
Cabd did very little but Cat has picked it up. Still don't have a read on them.
2. Guyett - scum
Their response to pressure doesn't seem genuine. The self-vote seems like a gambit and putting a read of themselves didn't sit well with me. Everyone is going to call themselves town.
5. Brian Skies - town
I didn't like their exchange with Shiny but their explanation and saying they were confused seemed genuine to me. Since then they have been encouraging conversation and scum hunting.
7. Shiny Hydreigon - town
Can anyone argue they aren't town? They generate discussion. They call people on everything they do. They push people to actually contribute.
8. Bert - Null
I am changing this read. I can't find anything I find especially scummy about them. They seem to be very fair with how they play as well.
9. Viera Assassin - Null
Mostly gut. I don't know much about Saki except what others have told me. They haven't done anything I deemed scummy. Because of my changing my Bert read I am not comfortable with putting Saki as town.

Like saki made zero posts between these two, but bert being null suddenly makes vierra less town? Bullshit.

[morph the cat]

So what did my answer to your post 892 do for you, beast?

What changes if I'm in the hydra or not?

[morph the cat]

Saki still needs rope asap but I would move over to the beast wagon if we're going for him.

I'm waiting to hear from maradragon on why we should lynch probscum saki over practically claimed scum beast, but you can see where my vote is.

[morph the cat]

I give subs the benefit of the doubt because I know I suck at

playing town

sometimes.

Hello, scumslip.

[morph the cat]

His reads list changed with no really good reasoning, and now he just scum slipped too.

Why is saki a better vote than this thing?

[morph the cat]

I was waiting to see if Cabd/ffery will try to pull off lynches solely based off meta

you've seen the wrong games ffery
i lurk too

hows anything a better vote than this thing?

R~

You're really kind of aggressive this game, mara/ns/whoeverthirdheadis. This is kinda weird given how you usually interact with me.

Skies, I read it and I mostly agree, but mara really seems to be deadest on saki here, and I'd like to see exactly why first.

[morph the cat]

im not mara. mara will be away for 2 days or so.

R~

Well then, thirdhead; do you feel like you're sure it's beast-saki? Because I really don't see why lynching saki is better in this situation.

[morph the cat]

im not mara. mara will be away for 2 days or so.

R~

fery here. Do you know that Mara concurs with you re Saki?

[morph the cat]

yes.

[morph the cat]

brian say morph is scum. do you think its more likely to be with saki or beast?

R~

I was making an intent to hammer post before I saw this.

I think I want to sleep on it.

[morph the cat]

I thought I had the paranoia market cornered.

Yeah, no. Not posting intent tonight. Another reread is in order.

[morph the cat]

wow guyett just wow. ever considered it might be true? maybe wait to see what the rest of the town thinks of the claim?

This

saki/morph it is, but keep an eye on guyett

R~

Keep more than a close eye.

[morph the cat]

When was the last time you saw some one fake claim friendly neighbor?

In a very recent game actually. The last game cabd and I played as morph.

But, it's not a common fake claim. And, scum neighborizers are a thing.

Given your depth of MS experience, I'd probably believe your claim without having seen your post-hammer reactions.

[morph the cat]

its not a neighbourisor. Basically he would be like an innocent child if the person he talked to was alive... the person wasn't alive so it looked like it could be faked

It's a terminology thing. If the neighbor gets to choose who is in their neighborhood I call it a neighborizor. If the neighborhood is set up by the mod I call it a neighbor.

[morph the cat]

I've never run into that role. I see why you said it's like an inno child.

[morph the cat]

Brian Skies is town. We hid behind him on night 1.

Consider our vote to be virtually on VA. We think the other scum is Guyett.

[morph the cat]

Nobody. We're one-shot.

[morph the cat]

Guyett is scum by PoE mostly, though his hammer on beast was pretty crap.

You're the other scum possibility, bert. But, we both had a stronger town read on you yesterday than we did Guyett.

[morph the cat]

I listed Brian as our strongest town read in my day 2 reads list. I figured town would find that if we died.

[morph the cat]

I want to get as much content as I can to figure Guyett and you out.

[morph the cat]

Cabd has not posted anything particularly townie this game, unless he has been impersonating you somehow and generated reads in-thread. What are his scumreads right now?

My read on you is now based on all of my experience with you, and all my feelings. Cabd I saw as scum in 527 which is now COMPLETED, but he hasn't been working with us during this game. I've been as transparent as you'll see me in my games with you. You saw how I kept changing votes in 527 like an insane VI, I don't definitely know whether to trust you or not. In the end, you aren't casting doubt on me like you were in 1415, though, which is good.

What I didn't like about Saki was that he kept directing our attacks on him by deflecting them to others. That's what makes me annoyed.

Yesterday when I came back from class and saw it was night, my gut instinct was to check out Guyett more closely. Brian, I'm curious to see where you are at right now. You're the only one that's most town town town.

VA has pinged my scumdar the most...I very often doubt my Nacho reads mid-game, much like I'm doubting my town read on you yesterday, Ffery. Dang it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Cabd *can* impersonate my posts. We could both go for a stripped down style of writing and probably look more similar than we do, but I write with

my

voice in every hydra. I changed some window dressing for hydraing with Nacho, but wound up incorporating those changes into my personal style rather than having a Sangres-only voice.

In 1415 I was town. Why is it good that my play is different in this game? Why do you think it's different?

[morph the cat]

Ffery, I remember after 1415 you said that you hoped to have had things sorted out and the "right" answers by the end of the day. How sure are you about VA as scum

I will be very surprised if we wind up voting elsewhere today, but it could happen if you or Guyett claim scum.

AND how have your synergies been with other players so far? you said your gameplay depends on that, IIRC

Synergies have been a little tentative because I never really got a handle on Shiny, and Mononoke and I didn't directly interact because SOMEBODY hammered Lucky2u before that could happen, and they were dead on day 2.

[morph the cat]

In 527 a bunch of my reads just plain sucked. I never got to the point in that game where I was comfortable enough about Nacho and Mara to shift a lot of focus on you. If I'd been alive closer to endgame, I would have put more effort into sorting you.

In this game, we're here, so yeah.

[morph the cat]

The role is called Hider. There are some variations, but in general the hider dies if they hide behind scum or if the player they hide behind is killed. We thought that Cabd's third wall was a strong enough indicator that he had some doubts about you, so we went with you on Night 1. Day 1 ending the way it did really pissed me off because I didn't have time to catch up and more importantly to post something that would clearly indicate our hide target. So, we wound up going with you because at least if we died it would point back to you as our likely target.

[morph the cat]

Question: If the scum killed me, would the hider die too?

Yes.

[morph the cat]

Actually, rechecking the role pm it doesn't explicitly say we'd die if our target was killed, but afaik that's how it usually works.

p-edit Being hidden behind doesn't protect you from a kill.

[morph the cat]

Anyhow, these are the possible scum-teams. I can cross them off as we go.

Bert

Bert-Brian

Bert-Cat

Bert-Guyett
Bert-VA

Brian

Brian-Bert

Brian-Cat

Brian-Guyett

Brian-VA

Cat

Cat-Bert

Cat-Brian

Cat-Guyett
Cat-VA

Guyett

Guyett-Bert

Guyett-Brian

Guyett-Cat
Guyett-VA

VA

VA-Bert

VA-Brian

VA-Cat
VA-Guyett

Fixed that for you.


Guyett's vote goes down in post 980, at 12:12 PM (my time, adjust as needed for time zones)

Bert and ffery made several posts within a short burst, most notably at #984 and 985, which were within 60 seconds of each other. If Bert-Me was the scumteam, game would already be over.

Brian Skies and I made several posts within 1 minute of each other (1:09PM, 1:10PM) in posts (992, 993)



Guyett unvotes at post 1002 (3:37 PM) plenty of time any two of the above three names could have hammered together without guyett unvoting.

Therefore, by process of elimination, there HAS to be at least one scum within
{Vierra, Guyett}. The second is potentially outside the group, or that could have been a cross-lylo vote for cred. Either way, there's a minimum 50% naked chance of lynching randomly within {vierra, guyett} and we're not lynching randomly. There's at best a 33% chance of lynching within {morph, bert, skies} so we're not going there.

[morph the cat]

You just cleared me, why would you be voting me?

Uh... I'm not voting you?

[morph the cat]

There's nothing wrong with it. Notice I kept it from a neutral POV. I put myself on the list right next to you, skies, even though we're both town. Like I said, randomly lynching from that list is AT BEST 33% chance (as in bert is scum)

[morph the cat]

I'm saying that scumteam is one of these three:

Saki-Bert
Saki-Guyett
Bert-Guyett

But like you did, I'm approaching it from a "nobody is confirmed" point of view.

[morph the cat]

We are clear to US. And you are clear to us by dint of our being alive day 2. Additionally, if that weren't enough, based on the lack of a hammer vote this afternoon, there is no way that YOU are scum with us and no way that we are scum with bert. The game would already be over if there are two scum in that group of three.

[morph the cat]

From an opportunity to hammer point of view, you and bert

could

be scum because there isn't post timestamp evidence that you were in the thread at the same time. But, we're alive, so you are town. You are not scum with Bert.

[morph the cat]

Brian, talk to me about why you think Guyett isn't scum.

[morph the cat]

But you cleared me.

From an opportunity to hammer point of view, you and bert

could

be scum because there isn't post timestamp evidence that you were in the thread at the same time.

But, we're alive, so you are town.

You are not scum with Bert.

[morph the cat]

See, that means something to us because we know we'd be dead if you're scum. But, that's not confirmed until we flip.

The timestamp evidence is independent of our claim.

[morph the cat]

I think we're talking past each other. :/

[morph the cat]

The existence of me being scum and you being town cannot exist BECAUSE of your claim alone. This means I can only be scum with you.

Objectively, you're fully cleared as town when we flip.

But, you are cleared to us.

Now, talk to me about Guyett?

[morph the cat]

I'll go back through that section of the game. I had Guyett as town after my catch-up read of day 1. His interactions with you were part of that. IIRC I had concerns about the run-up to Lucky2u's lynch but they were outweighed by earlier goodposting.

Day 2 really messed with that read, though.

[morph the cat]

Here I am sitting on Page 20, and I just don't get it, Morph. I just don't get why you did what you did.

If the day hadn't ended when it did, we might have done something different. But it ended without my being caught up and definitely without a chance for Cabd and I to talk about who to hide behind and then leave a solid crumb. You were the only player that Cabd talked at length about but didn't chart as pretty far in the town direction, so we felt pretty confident that if we died night 1 you would be the player that town focused on as our likely target.

[morph the cat]

I'm guessing I won't. Unless it's to do with my taking you to task about policy voting early day 2. That was me yelling at you for contemplating an anti-town reason for voting.

It's 1 am for both of us. We'll catch up in the morning.

[morph the cat]

We don't have the luxury of clearing out lurker suspects. This is almost certainly LYLO.

But, I'm convinced that Saki is scum. And the lack of a hammer yesterday convinces me that you aren't, bert.

Vote: Viera Assassin

[morph the cat]

Me too. I hate lylo. I get very little practice at it.

[morph the cat]

We're Rufio.

[morph the cat]

Whoo! Good work Bert!

I was right, the 1-shot strongman ability was a red herring.

[morph the cat]

I think town (Brian) was really close to figuring us out. With a few more hours to build a case, this game might have gone to town.