Newbie 1433 - Game Over

[Mr_Ree]

Wow. It's a bit strange to see mafia reveal themselves so early...

Hey all, I'm your IC. I'm here to help answer questions and show you how the game is

meant

to be played.

vote Satan

Keep an eye on how many votes a person has before voting them. You DON'T want to accidentally hammer (lynch) someone.

[Mr_Ree]

Yes. Satan is 100% pure scum. There is no denying it. That tell is flawless.

Let me see if I can find his scumbuddy before we end the day.

[Mr_Ree]

Btw, here is the glossary containing commonly used terminology:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Glossary

Learn it. Love it.

[Mr_Ree]

Hmmm. What do you think Bob? Not sure I bought that...

see reaction test in the glossary

[Mr_Ree]

>_> We are not policy lynching..

[Mr_Ree]

Too much theory at once. This isn't school ya know...

It is all good stuff though. The trick is bringing theory into practice. Everyone has their own groove, you just have to find yours.

Sometimes, the easiest way is just to jump in.

As town, you should feel bad about your lynch. It means you were either not transparent enough or you were playing anti-town. Remember, the goal of the game is to find scum, not see who can be the biggest troll.

now, back to your regularly scheduled gaming.

[Mr_Ree]

Crap.... busted...

That was actually a reaction test. There is no solid foolproof tell for finding scum. I wanted HIM to think there was though, so I could gauge his reactions. Sometimes you have to bring people out of their comfort zone to see how they act under pressure. Once you've seen a few of these reaction tests, you will start to realize the intent behind them. Reaction tests are an excellentaddition to any scumhunting repertoire.

[Mr_Ree]

I don't see my vote moving off 2Pac or me contributing much until he cuts out his shtick. I'm here to play mafia, not read bad rap parodies.

The thing is, though it is stupid, do you really think it is scummy? I mean, he clearly thought of this method of posting before, based on his username. I find his posting style annoying, but not necessarily scummy.

Twee posting styles like that are a good cover for scum, it makes you harder to read, which is something scum wants and town doesn't. But honestly I don't really care about that, I'm just not willing to deal with it. We're here to win, but we're also here to have fun, and having doggerel verse shoved down my throat is not my idea of fun.

I agree, there is no way he can it all game. But, I'd prefer to lynch someone scummish to someone annoying.

This is town.

[Mr_Ree]

He wouldn't. That WAS the point.

The reaction test was to see how he reacted to having a decent wagon on him and being called 100% scum for committing a "sure fire scumtell"

I feel he didn't react the way I would have thought he would act if scum. Therefore, I am more inclined to believe he is town.

Truth is, there is no tell that is 100% all of the time. Once it has been used and called town, scum tend to adopt it and use it to gain towncred, thus, the game is ever evolving.

[Mr_Ree]

Yes. Satan is 100% pure scum. There is no denying it. That tell is flawless.

Let me see if I can find his scumbuddy before we end the day.

You ready to go 1-vs-1 against him? The IC shouldn't say stuff like this, the poor newbies will take you seriously.

@ SatanHellYeah -

I'm giving you exactly

one

chance to prove your innocence. I want a paragraph-length read of every player who has posted so far. I don't care if they've only posted once, or if you think you know next to nothing about them. I'm looking for the feeblest, most spontaneous, most honest gut reactions you can give me. Reach into your psyche and spit out the truth. Pick

something

about everyone and write about it. Minimum 3-4 sentences each. Also, label them as probably town or probably scum, based on your best guess so far.

If you're town, do NOT try to calculate your response based on what you think the town wants to hear. Just be completely honest, even if you think it might look bad. Trust me.

If you're scum, good look pretending that you've taken the above advice.

Also, if you argue with the prompt I've given you for any reason I can promise you that your ass is grass. Comply first, and ask questions after.

@ everyone else -

DO NOT

comment on or make reference to the request I just made of SatanHellYeah until AFTER he responds to it. We don't want to taint his answers. This is extremely important, for reasons I'll be more than happy to explain afterwards.

See these two posts following it Fuzzy, Nominull hints that it is a reaction test and Archaebob takes it a step further with his own reaction test.

Sometimes putting people off guard is a good way to get GENUINE reactions.

[Mr_Ree]

Now you're thinking!

I do wonder about SE's taking on the IC role and being overly helpful but frankly, Archaebob hasn'tactually done anything I can call him on. For now, I'm willing to view it as he saw and recognized my RT and decided to roll with it. Truthfully, if he was scum, he probably would have pushed ahead with a Satan lynch.

[Mr_Ree]

No response to my post Fuzzy?

[Mr_Ree]

Lol I thought you didn't like reaction tests...

Don't see much of a point to it either. It may have worked better at L-1. Otherwise, you were just trying to kill the wagon, which is boss. Back to business though,

unvote, vote: Fuzzylogic

Not sure if scum or new.

[Mr_Ree]

It's a combination of voting pattern and gut.

I think you know better than what you let on...

[Mr_Ree]

Good stuff in here. Catching up now.

You will be shocked and amazed when I reveal what I have learned about each of you. Of course... that will have to wait until tomorrow....

I should probably mention that I play 100% by phone. right now it's outta juice. I feel confident calling the scumteam now though and I can say with complete certainty 2 of you are solid town. Will go more into depth and post a read list in the morning.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm not at all happy with this turn of events.

Same...

@Bob is this VLAable?

[Mr_Ree]

There's no real skill level qualification for playing as IC. Experience is required, and presumably you get better with experience, but the point of the IC is to provide someone who's familiar with the mechanics and social norms of how the game is played on the site for people to refer to, not necessarily to provide someone who's so amazing at the game they'll automatically win for whatever side they're on. That'd be no fun, after all.

Don't like this. don't like this at all..

Of course I'm going to win for town. My town record is like almost perfect. This sounds like a discredit...

[Mr_Ree]

unvote vote Nominull

Sorry guys this flu is kicking my ass. Hoping to get some actual content down soon. My brain is pretty fuzzy from all the meds.

PE- listen to ^This guy in the meantime

[Mr_Ree]

Here's something for you to ponder, as a show of my good faith: if Mr. Ree is such a good townie, why is he voting for me and not 2Pac?

Scumpost.

Answer: because I'm right. I'm always right. Now that I'm on the mend, I can finally hop back into this.

[Mr_Ree]

So, town, who of archiebob and fuzzylogic would you rather see die today? I think I'd prefer fuzzy, but I'd settle for archie too. But no one other than them is dying today.

Actually, the way archie jumped on fuzzy could be majorly opportunistic scum, since he seemed so convinced of fuzzy's innocence until he started getting votes. Thoughts?

I apologize for thinking you're town. I was wrong. I'm big enough to admit that.

[Mr_Ree]

Ree, I'm pretty damn positive that Nom's town. His last two pages worth of posting has been incredible sincere.

Anyway fully catch up and then vote Satan.

Working on it. Going to see how this pans out. I'm seeing some bad play so far.

[Mr_Ree]

But whatever. Hurry up and claim, Satan, so we can move on to 2Pac.

Scumpost.

The thing is Regfan, ^ this looks worse than Satan's slip.

[Mr_Ree]

The thing is fuzzy, I really appreciate what regfan has been posting. It looks a lot like what I would have posted say, a year ago. The analysis is great, I agreed with his read posts. I just don't agree with a Satan lynch atm.

Nominull and Skelda are the probable scum here. When I look at some of the interaction between the two, I see scum. A Nominull flip here would give more information than a Satan flip, which, I am willing to bet would be town. Regfan said it himself, Nominull is capable of better than this.

Take the statement I just pointed out, That looks to me like he KNOWS Satan's alignment. If Satan gets
lynched, Null gets enough towncred to push a 2pac lynch tomorrow. "You guys should have listened to me yesterday and voted for 2pac"

PE: oh, this should be good... Do explain for the crowd...

[Mr_Ree]

I could very well be wrong. It has happened once or twice.

Considering my top scumread is Nominull, I believe Satan to be town based on HIM. Thing is, scum KNOW the alignment of every townie walking into the game. I think Nom KNOWS Satan's alignment.

If scum goes and calls every townie Town, they have nobody to mislynch. Likewise, they cannot call every townie scum. The best way to get around that is to tunnel, or focus on one player only. That is what I believe Nom is doing with 2pac. Have you heard many other town or scumreads out of him?

I believe Nom to be the most informative lynch. A scumflip from him would damn Skelda, clear 2pac and basically win us the game. It really is THAT easy.

A townflip from Satan would sufficiently muddy up the waters so that Nom WOULD have been able to drive home a 2pac mislynch.

Based on what I've read, ^ this is exactly what I see happening.

[Mr_Ree]

@ Ree- what makes you think Satan will flip town. Also what do you make of Reg's scumslip read on Satan...you seem to think that he has pretty good reads. I guess I am asking why I should I should flip my vote to Null since Satan seems like a pretty sure bet. Not saying am 100 percent sure he is scum but it seems more likely than not he is.

Why does it seem more likely? I'd like you to answer in your own words.

[Mr_Ree]

I have a guess as to Satan's alignment. So do you. We're in agreement on that, at least. How about you join me and we can get a counterwagon going on 2Pac?

Not happening. I haven't had one single iota of a townread off your play. You are intelligent, I'll give you that. Your case against 2pac is uninspired and based off a playstyle that is nothing but null. He has given reads. He hasn't backed down. Your play has been anti-town through and through. You have no intention of helping town win this and your cases are as hollow as the inside of the twizzler I can currently eating. Why should I, or anyone, for that matter, follow your lead?

You have shown knowledge of alignments
You have discredited
You have played anti town
You have tunnelled
You have attempted to spread suspicion

These are all marks of scum. I am quite happy with my vote on you.

[Mr_Ree]

Btw, I will be around quite frequently until this day ends. I have had a wicked flu for the last week and I apologize for my absence.

I have noticed a few unanswered questions posed to me. Reg and Sthar have done a decent job of explaining reaction tests. If you still have lingering questions, feel free to ask.

[Mr_Ree]

@Reg, I look forward to it.

Can you sum it up real quick for me? It's 3:30am here and that bed is really calling my name. Also, you should know that I am severly inclined to disregard the words of those that insult me so keep that in mind.

@Ran, Then it turns out I was wrong. Fortunately, I don't think I am.

We still have to deal with a claim, we still have VCA to fall back on AND we still gain valuable intel on Skelda, 2pac and Regfan. That basically covers all current scumreads. I have a problem finding fault in this.

[Mr_Ree]

Oh ok. let me just switch my vote then...

Not buying it dude. I've been around the block a few times too. I liked your original reads much better. Tell you what though, you push your case and I'll push mine. That way, at the very least, we have 2 viable options when it gets to deadline.

Since you seem to be defending your Nom townread, here is some food for thought, I play exclusively by phone and only on Wifi. It shows me as online when I'm not. Sometimes I look at the thread and simply don't have time to post. Sometimes my phone logs in and I don't check anything. Who are you to say any of these DIDN'T happen to Satan? Did he implicitly say that he ignored the thread?

What kind of newbie doesn't blame stuff on being a newbie? I did. Just about every other newbie I have encountered has too.

[Mr_Ree]

This is ridiculous. We were so close to getting done with time to spare...

Ree, we are not lynching Null. All he has done is tunnel on 2Pac and be attacked and defended. Satan's flip is what we need right now. End of story. You just don't have the votes to kill Null.

Yeah, lets get that mislynch gogogo!!

Oh wait.... yeah. we're not doing that... Anyone want to join me on Nom?

[Mr_Ree]

Or perhaps Skelda....

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah. I believe so. Switch to Nom if we start running short on time. If you think Skelda is scum, take a look at how he's been defending Nom ALL DAY.

[Mr_Ree]

If you feel Satan should be lynched, be my guest. I just don't believe it will result in a scum flip.

I'll confirm my suspicions tonight one way or another.

Association tells are anything but useless especially since there is no daytalk in newbie games. When combined with reads and VCA, they are quite revealing, especially when those flips do start rolling in.

Since 2pac isn't happening, Why not join me on Skelda Nom? Since you aren't partners or anything...

[Mr_Ree]

Does that mean you wouldn't be willing to switch at deadline just to get a lynch?

Do I really have to point out that scum would probably take any out in order to prevent thier own lynch? A scum Satan would have hopped all over a counterwagon to save themselves. Satan is probably town.

[Mr_Ree]

Fair enough. I'm willing to go Skelda if need be.

[Mr_Ree]

Whoops found a hole...

I thought 2pac was supposed to be scum with Satan. How does town Satan mean scum 2pac?

Has anyone actually made a case against 2pac that doesn't involve his gimmick? I think its pretty clear he intended on posting like that regardless of which alignment he drew. In fact, he would have stopped doing it if he was scum so he wouldn't get lynched. Since it would be playing against wincon and all..

I gave you two perfectly viable candidates for scum. I listed reasons why they could be scum. What makes them so town to you that you wouldn't consider it? Please share, because if for some reason you die tonight, I will still be pushing my suspects tomorrow. If I die, I would want people to focus on you, Nom and Skelda. Especially if this silly 2pac mislynch goes through.

[Mr_Ree]

Okay, answer me this then; How is him not posting for three days any different to the following situations:

1) Mr Ree not posting from the 13th to the 16th
2) Sthar not posting in the last 3 days
3) Skelda not posting from the 18th to the 20th
4) Satan not posting from the 12th to the 15th and from the 18th to the 20th

The answer is that it isn't any different and you're fabricating reasoning to continue pushing towards 2Pac for what really is a policy lynch. And what about his posts do you read as fluff other than his rap-sections because there is actual stances and reads in his ISO. None in yours though.

[Mr_Ree]

Don't feed me that AtE. My win ratio is that high because I won't compromise on my reads, I defend my townreads and I keep an open mind. Nobody has truely given me any reason to suspect 2pac. What you are saying about him now contradicts what you said earlier.

What would you like me to do? Abandon my reads and tell people to follow you? I said at the beginning that i was goin to show people how the game is meant to be played. Abandoning my reads for the sake of a wagon I don't believe in is not how one plays town. If you joined to see if you can win against me, I've beaten better. If you joined to see how awesome I am at catching scum, listen up. This isn't something to get mad about. If you truely are town, treat me as an obstacle or change my mind. It's not just me you have to convince, you need 2 more to get your 2pac lynch. If it turns out you are wrong, you can swallow your pride and try again. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll do the same.

Do you not see the benefit of a counterwagon? Do you not see the benefit of forcing people to take hard stances on their reads?

Overcome my questions with answers. Counter my points with facts. Guide me with the truth.

If I just lay down and die, I cannot show you what you wanted to see in me. You wanted to learn but you cannot learn from one who teaches nothing.

[Mr_Ree]

The truth is you're opposing a 2Pac lynch because

I'm

leading it and you don't want me to be right.

Want to make a deal? We lynch 2Pac; he flips scum you sheep me for the rest of the game or if I die you lynch Satan and if that doesn't end the game then perhaps Skelda afterwards. If he flips town I'll vote whoever you want tomorrow. Do we have a deal?

This is absolutely 100% wrong. I want you to be right. I can swallow my pride and 70% of day 1 lynches are wrong anyway.

I just don't see it. Others don't see it. Lead us to water and maybe we will drink.

Thing about going after a player who plays sporadically is, at this stage, he may not even get the chance to claim or defend himself. Perfect specimen for a late day mislynch.

Nom on the other hand is an active player who does nothing but tunnel, refuses to make any other reads and discredits attackers... Perfect candidate for scum.

What it sounds like to me is that you are trying to one up me. If that's the case, you have to be right. Are you sure you are?

[Mr_Ree]

Did I mention I play by phone >_>

Look Reg, I have NOTHING against you so please stop thinking I do. This is getting weird and personal.

What is it that you want me to do?

You are getting all psycho on me for not sharing your reads when you, yourself only solidified your reads a few pages ago. I've seen nothing to change my mind.... yet. When I ask you to enlighten me, you don't.

@Nom: How is it exactly that I'm supposed to know you are town when you don't act like it. Please make a towncase on yourselfso I can see what you are seeing.

2pac towncase incoming.

[Mr_Ree]

I have more faith in my reads than I do in yours because I can explain mine.

[Mr_Ree]

I thought that's what I was doing....

If it is a mislynch, I want someone to fight for it so I can look back and use that as evidence for or against them. See if what they say fits.

2pac has stated his reads at every turn. His scum suspects match up with mine giving him a great deal of transparency. He is being targetted by my top scum read which earns him towncred in my books. He doesn't post out of fear, which is a towntell. He has linked evidence to support his conclusions. He has explained his cases, even if they are in verse. His self imposed posting restriction (while occasionally switching to Shakespearian (thou dost is not rapper vernacular)) was premeditated and entirely null. He gets his point across and pushes his scum reads.

That's why I read him as town. To get me to read him as scum, you must first convince me that Nom is town. That's something you've been unable to do thus far. How do you know I'm not right? For that matter, how am I supposed to know you are right when it goes against what I believe? It's like telling a Muslim to eat bacon because it tastes good to you.

I'm giving you plenty of reasons for and against your reads (mostly against) Why not start defending your reads and pushing your case instead of attacking me for pushing mine. Our reads are mutually exclusive and I doubt either of us will be switching anytime soon so start convincing the others if you truely are concerned with the impending deadline. I am only one voice and one vote. That leaves 8 others. If you want people to listen put everything in one

concise

post. Lay it all out. People like cases. towncases and scumcases. lay it all out so it's simple to follow. Then people will listen. Notice I've asked you and null both for cases against 2pac? It's because you haven't given me one I couldn't shred to pieces. Why? Because he probably isn't scum.

When I asked you to explain why you thought Nom is town, you told me to go back and read a few pages. I assure you I have read all of his posts. I see anti-town. Please tell me why he should be around come lylo instead of someone who
actually puts effort in to find scum.

Then there is the fact you've called both me and my reads idiotic. I can see why people would want to ignore your reads. That is NOT the type of attitude to bring to a newbie game. As an experienced player, you should know better. Smarten up.

Many of us are willing to switch to Skelda. That can be the compromise if we need one but if you were truly serious about that deal of yours, I'm sure you don't mind reversing it. Plus, with your concern of the impending deadline, you should have switched so we could have had a claim out of him hours ago. Again, if you have concerns about getting a claim before we lynch, why go with the less active player?

Anyone else joining the 2pac wagon, I want to hear your reasons why Nom is town and 2pac is scum.

[Mr_Ree]

Lol. i havent walled in a while...

[Mr_Ree]

FOR THE LAST TIME, I'm not voting 2pac today.

I know EXACTLY what you are trying to do but I'm NOT falling for it. I don't have a high win rate because I'm wrong and I bow to pressure. I have a high win ratio because I catch scum and win games. I will not go against my reads. I believe in my reads and I think you are either scum or wrong here. Kill me tonight if you have to.

I will not vote WITH my scum reads AGAINST my townreads, no matter which townread you switch to.

[Mr_Ree]

Would you? Has Nominull claimed?

[Mr_Ree]

Both are at L-1 and everyone else has taken hard line stances. I guess we are relying on our missing magic friend.

Claim now. Both of you.

[Mr_Ree]

@Mod please prod Sthar8

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah, I can join you in this.

Unvote, Vote Skelda

[Mr_Ree]

It's viable and works with my reads. Im fine with this. will be around later.

[Mr_Ree]

You are still scum Skelda. Should have been smart and picked me instead

[Mr_Ree]

So who should we string up first, Nominull, Skelda or Reggie?

[Mr_Ree]

Good. You two are thinking. I like that. I hope you are both done listening to the anti town intrests of Skelda Nom and Reg.

[Mr_Ree]

Actually, we should just lynch Reg today.

Vote Regfan

[Mr_Ree]

Cancel that. I want one for sure and its a coin toss between Reg and Skelda. We should go for Nom

Unvote vote Nominull

Quite frankly, having it down to three players today wins us the game. I still wish someone had hammered Skelda yesterday. He is SOOOO freaking scummy its not funny.

[Mr_Ree]

Gah!

VOTE: SatanHellYeah. I am still convinced. And Nomni, give us your reads right now.

Why are you convinced Mr Satan is scum? I would like to hear your case against him in your next post. You dont have a leg to stand on here. he is so town its not even funny.

[Mr_Ree]

Is today a holiday or something?

Where is everyone?

[Mr_Ree]

You believe Reg's case that even Reg dropped because it was too full of logic holes and Wifom?

Did you not see how re refused to lynch 2pac because he had a town read on him. AT DEADLINE. When he could have hammered if he was scum with little to no suspicion. That's HARD town right there. Voting Satan at this point is basically a scum claim. Did you not se my other reasoning for him being town that even caused Regfan to change his read?

[Mr_Ree]

Now vote Nominull or we lynch you.

[Mr_Ree]

The truth is you're opposing a 2Pac lynch because

I'm

leading it and you don't want me to be right.

Want to make a deal? We lynch 2Pac; he flips scum you sheep me for the rest of the game or if I die you lynch Satan and if that doesn't end the game then perhaps Skelda afterwards. If he flips town I'll vote whoever you want tomorrow. Do we have a deal?

I still don't believe it; I think you'd have claimed in your last post if you were the cop knowing that the lynch was between two people one being you.

Happy to wait to the flip and be vindicated or eat humble pie.

Now do you get the reasoning for the counterwagon? Scum had to work for that lynch. Both are on that wagon. Your ead on Nom is probably going to get you lynched if he flips scum.

Smarten up and listen to the nice private detective who plays the game for real.

[Mr_Ree]

God, you are a jerk!

No, I won't vote Nom. I have a townread on him, I will not vote Nom. If that makes me lynch-worthy, so what? Unlike scum, getting lynched isn't a complete disaster, so you still have 2 more mislynches after today.

But, you would be a really terrible player if you tried to dictate the game like that. I'd seriously be more liable to see Reg as scum as Nom. Just voting me because I didn't agree with you would be stupid.

What if scum is someone like Ranawey, who is just watching us destroy each other and appeasing us? And what if whoever you lynch today flips town? Are you just going to go systematically destroying us? No, that won't happen. If I'm alive, I will not let that happen.

VOTE: Ranawey for the appeasement. We would have been idiots not to lynch 2Pac, and you aren't using that against us.

Yes I can be. I wont apologize for it either.

What if your townread flips scum? What if you are just defending your partner?

If I fall for every little bit of AtE, I can't win. I have to sort out what is genuine and what isnt. it's also part of my daily life. Someone has to be an asshole and ask the hard questions. I'm showing you how to find scum and to avoid deadline problems, I'm going to sort this out fast and hard.

[Mr_Ree]

Holding people accountable for thier reads. I liike that. Keep it up Fuzzy.

[Mr_Ree]

Nom would be my guess.

The coaching post, the white knighting, the refusal to vote there or let the lynch happen. All signs point to yes.

It's unfortunate that you've run out of believable options here Skelda. You dropped your Satan read like a hot potato once I pointed out the holes. Now you can't even say why you found him scummy in the first place?

Now you attack the newbies who can also be shown to be town?

The options here are one of you three who were pushing for 2pac. vote in there.

[Mr_Ree]

There is always a possibility Skelda is town and just fell for what Nom and Reg were selling. One of the three of them have to flip town. I still say we wait for those two to speak.

Nom should probably be our lynch though. look at the way he was defended for no reason by both of them.

Although I do agree that Skelda looks pretty bad at this point.

[Mr_Ree]

I will point out that the one pushing for Nom was lynched and the one pushing for Reg was nightkilled.

Just saying...

[Mr_Ree]

He wasn't worried about how he would look, he was worried about what the flip would be. That much should be clear.

AS far as lynching based on association tells go, it goes far deeper than that.

1. You were my scumread from yesterday
2. You were the scumread of the dead cop.
3. You parked your vote on the now dead cop and barely mentioned anyone else
4. You deliberately played anti town
5. You are unrepentant regarding 2pacs lynch
6. Your reads can't really be that bad.
7. You discredit those who speak against you
8. OMGUS vote
9. You still haven't done anything townie yet You insist we should see you as obviously town. Lol
10. You and probably your partner were both on the 2pac Lynch due to how difficult it was to get.
11. Gut.
12. I'm normally right.

[Mr_Ree]

2pac didn't deserve it. I said as much before you lynched him. He was an "easy target" because he used a gimmick. His reads were good, his cases, while worded to fit his rhyming scheme, were good. He asked questions of people and pushed till they answered. He stuck to his reads. He did nothing specifically anti town.

If you really think his Lynch was justified, you should be able to list all the reasons you lynched him for. Please do so. Aside from his gimmick, there's nothing besides omgus.

[Mr_Ree]

...

That's what I thought.

There is reason to feel bad. Because I handed you all that beforehand and you chose to ignore me, discredit me and downright threw a hissy fit when I refused to go a long with you.

Now, of our 3 main reads, 1 hasn't even showed, One started off voting Satan then switched to obvious new town and the last voted me and is poking at new town to see if he can get a mislynch in.

My god this is an easy game.

Word of advice from your friendly neighbourhood IC, Nom IS scum. You should join me in voting him so we can get a claim sooner rather than later. STOP voting at L-1 so we can ask for a claim.

[Mr_Ree]

That's a decent response to a silly question.

What if you flip scum Skelda? Nobody but scum know the alignment of every player. If we are wrong, we are wrong, but we are probably right because this many players sharing similar reads are rarely wrong.

[Mr_Ree]

@Ree besides Nom sitting on 2Pac what else makes you think he will flip scum? what is your read on Reg? also is it possible that the scum got a cop read from 2pac. I could be wrong but I dont see it beyond the realm of possibility especially with new players?

@ everyone- besides Skelda being stubborn and not admitting killing 2pac was a mistake what else make you think he is lynch worthy? Honestly I dont see much besides that issue.

See my 12 reasons for why I want to Lynch Nom.
It is possible He picked up on a breadcrumb that I
missed. Breadcrumbing is Leaving your role hidden in one of your posts. It can strengthen a claim if it's doubted or if there is a counterclaim.

For skelda, it's general anti town behavior combined with reads He can't really explain and is willing to change if they suit him.

Basically, he's looking for a viable mislynch from my perspective. I also don't like to see newbies white knighting when they can't explain their reads.

What originally drew my attention to him was a percieved coaching post.

[Mr_Ree]

If the majority suspect someone, there is normally a reason for it, whether it's because they are playing anti town or they are saying things that don't make sense with the evidence given. I'D say that you, Nom and Reg fit that bill.

If you were to start playing protown and using evidence instead of wifomy speculation, we wouldn't suspect you, would we?

[Mr_Ree]

I didnt take that attitude with 2pac because he was playing protown and his reads made sense with what was happening in the game. I did say there was a chance i was wrong(a very slim chance) but I wasn't was I?

What do you think of Nom's vote on me? Is it justified by evidence? Does it fit with scum being on the 2pac wagon?

[Mr_Ree]

I'll give you a hint. Based on evidence, Satan and I are the two worst possible votes for refusing and arguing Against the 2package wagon.

[Mr_Ree]

The fact that you three weren't on the 2Pac wagon is evidence in your favor, but it's weak evidence. We were headed for a lynch on 2Pac or a no-lynch, and either one would have served scum purposes. I don't know Skelda's alignment, but I know mine, and you get exactly zero credit in my eyes for voting me over 2Pac, Mr. Ree.

If that is what you believe, then why did it sound like He was your second choice?

[Mr_Ree]

While I appreciate you calling me God, Ree works just fine too.

I was referring to Fuzzy. Was he not your secondary scum read?

[Mr_Ree]

The fact that you three weren't on the 2Pac wagon is evidence in your favor, but it's weak evidence. We were headed for a lynch on 2Pac or a no-lynch, and either one would have served scum purposes. I don't know Skelda's alignment, but I know mine, and you get exactly zero credit in my eyes for voting me over 2Pac, Mr. Ree.

I really can't believe they don't think you are town.

What about that post screams town to you? Does it not go against the Fuzzy/Ran team you are pushing for?

[Mr_Ree]

The other thing is, you two seem the most worried about convincing people you will flip town. I don't remember having to say i will flip town even once.

Saying you are ttown over and over doesnt make it true. Your actions should speak for themselves. Yours just happen to say something different.

Not one person has made a solid town case based on your actions. I ask again, why should I read either of you as town?

[Mr_Ree]

also Fuzzy had not been directly mentioned in the conversation for quite some time, so I don't think you were licensed to use a pronoun to refer to him.

I'll give you a hint. Based on evidence, Satan and I are the two worst possible votes for refusing and arguing Against the 2package wagon.

That metric is too easy for scum to manipulate. By that metric Fuzzy is less suspicious than either of you, since he was arguing against it too, but he was around to drop the hammer rather than let us no-lynch.

The fact that you three weren't on the 2Pac wagon is evidence in your favor, but it's weak evidence. We were headed for a lynch on 2Pac or a no-lynch, and either one would have served scum purposes. I don't know Skelda's alignment, but I know mine, and you get exactly zero credit in my eyes for voting me over 2Pac, Mr. Ree.

Perhaps I should have said Fuzzy but I thought it was implied.

Does this not contradict your secondary scum read on Fuzzy? It really sounds like a townpoint in his favor...

[Mr_Ree]

wait Ree .....are you calling me out as scum?? If so what case do you have against me?

What? I said Non is making you sound town while simultaneously calling you scum. It sounds conflicted.

Should I be calling you scum? I hate being wrong.

[Mr_Ree]

Regfan seems too embarrassed to post after being wrong. He could always redeem himself by Sheeping me but If it actually goes to replacement, He doesn't deserve those scummies awards.

@Safetydance: see about getting Bob back before searching for other replacements. If not, Pm SerraPaladin.

[Mr_Ree]

What exactly are these concerns you speak of?

[Mr_Ree]

I've seen that hundreds of times from new players. Afraid of being wrong, afraid of being manipulated, etc. That's what it sounded like to me. There was no lie, just my interpretation. To me he sounds town.

Calling it a lie just looks bad on you. It makes it seem like you are trying to turn nothing into something suspicious. How does that benefit the town?

Pedit my nonsense? Says the newbie to the IC...

He can't justify his reads. He can't justify why He should be called town.

Fuzzy could be partners with anyone then? You are trying to widen the net rather than pin this down. That equates to keeping options open. Right now, we should be trying to eliminate townreads from the Lynch pool, not toss more people in.

Satan - Town
Fuzzy - Town
RAN - town

Reg - Null

Skelda - scum
NOM - SCUM

Easy peezy. Who are your townreads Skelda?

[Mr_Ree]

Actually... why don't you go ahead and claim.

unvote, Vote Skelda

[Mr_Ree]

I guess it takes time to come up with a good fake claim...

[Mr_Ree]

My win ratio begs to differ. It's one of the highest on site.

[Mr_Ree]

My win ratio begs to differ. It's one of the highest on site.

How much of that comes from scum games where you browbeat people into going along with your nonsense?

My scum ratio is wayyy lower than my town win ratio. I really suck as scum. It's hard to fake reads you don't believe in. Fortunately, my town win ratio is over 80%.

[Mr_Ree]

Nom is just fear mongering. Trying to scare you so you second guess yourself.

I agree that waiting for a replacement is in our best interest though.

[Mr_Ree]

Not overly. Either he is very very confused and that is causing his bad reads or he is scum attempting to shift suspicion on those players who really shouldnt be considered scummy.

Maiintaining a vote on someone who tried very hard to stop 2 townlynches says it all. scum don't try to prevent mislynches. Just in case it doesn't though, ask him why i should consider him town. That one seems to have stumped him.

I can make town cases for all but three players. He remains one of those three.

He made quite a few posts yesterday too. I don't think anyone could call him out for lurking. It's the way He posts though more than anything. I find it very difficult to believe that He believes in any of his cases. It's much the same way as I flounder as scum, which is why it's recognizable to me. He is probably still my first choice.

Why so curious about Nom?

[Mr_Ree]

New guy may not be able to explain for Reg but He will give us more insight into that slot. I'd like to narrow down my three suspects to 2 suspects and 4 town. It's all about PoE.

The counter to Nom's fearmongering is, If we Lynch correct today, we buy ourselves a few more days to find the partner and the game will continue. With 3 players left, and PoE to work with, I don't see a lylo mislynch. Thats If it even gets that far.

[Mr_Ree]

Who are your top 2 scumreads then?

[Mr_Ree]

Hey Peabody. Welcome to the game

While you catch up, please list your reads along with the page number you have read up to. If you do that every 10ish pages, we should be able to follow your reads and compare them to what was happening at that time.

Cheers,
Ree

[Mr_Ree]

Hey Peabody. Welcome to the game

While you catch up, please list your reads along with the page number you have read up to. If you do that every 10ish pages, we should be able to follow your reads and compare them to what was happening at that time.

Cheers,
Ree

[Mr_Ree]

Town.

[Mr_Ree]

What do YOU think of his recent posts and why do you think that?

[Mr_Ree]

Hey Peabody. Welcome to the game

While you catch up, please list your reads along with the page number you have read up to. If you do that every 10ish pages, we should be able to follow your reads and compare them to what was happening at that time.

Cheers,
Ree

You really think its helpful for me to list my reads as I read?

I personally didn't see a use for them to be listed until I'm done.

I'm on page six and have a scum read on Satan.

Yes I do. Like I said, we can compare your reads to what was happening at the time.

Your predecessor is still highly suspect. I'd like as much information as possible from your slot.

[Mr_Ree]

hit me with a "why do you think that" first, you've been pretty coy with the reasoning for your townreads all game

I hate to pull the I asked you first card but I don't want your reasoning affected by my answers. Plus, there is still the fact that you owe me an answer for why I should think you are town.

I think I've made my reasoning behind many of my reads quite clear. You, Satan, skelda, Reg, 2pac... I've listed my thoughts on all of you.

Pedit take your time. All I ask is for those three read lists at 10 page intervals.

Just try to be caught up before deadline so you can make an informed decision.

[Mr_Ree]

Did Ranawey run away?

[Mr_Ree]

What I think is you and skelda are voting him for hammering the Lynch you both were pushing for. That makes it look like you are trying to shirk your own blame for being the ones to push the vote in the first place which again, looks bad on you two.

Why do you think his recent posting looks scummy?

[Mr_Ree]

And why should I be reading you as town? What have you done this game that should read as obv town?

[Mr_Ree]

I'm sorry, were you not saying you found him scummy? That's what I based that on. If you in fact find him town, why don't you go ahead and explain why so we can bring Skelda into the light. You seem to be avoiding that question altogether, just like the question of why I should read you as obv town.

Yet another discredit, surprise surprise...

Are you planning on answering anything?

[Mr_Ree]

Skelda...you know that the reason I jumped on the 2Pac wagon was that if I didnt vote for him we would end day 1 with a no lynch. You act likeit was still mid day and that I just jumped on his wagon bc it was the easiest lynch at the time. None which is true. Secondly its not like I had not suspected you as scum but jumped on you anyways. Like I said you are grasping at straws .

I look forward to reading Peabody reads.....also at this point I think that Ran is going to be replaced.

@ Ree what do you think about my town read on Nom.

Go ahead, tell me why this is or isn't town

[Mr_Ree]

And why should I be reading you as town? What have you done this game that should read as obv town?

My thoughts exactly... why are you avoiding this? I've only asked 7 times now.

I gave you an answer on fuzzy. He reads as town. I've asked several times what your read is yet you've said nothing.

[Mr_Ree]

You should all switch to Nom, apparently there is no reason to think he is town and he doesn't want to look bad for listing the reason he thinks town fuzzy is scum.

There is also the fact he cannot seem to list any reason I'm not town.

[Mr_Ree]

Declaring intent to hammer Nom when he hits L-1. I will ask for a claim first.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm liking Peabody's reads far more than I did Reg's. Can't wait until the end of his catch up.

[Mr_Ree]

OMG YES!!!

Can you place the first vote?!?

It looks to me like you are the one not answering my question. What is it I haven't answered?

[Mr_Ree]

@Newbies : self hammering is extremely bad and against wincon. Don't ever do that. Except Nom. He can do that since he is scum.

[Mr_Ree]

The other thing is, you two seem the most worried about convincing people you will flip town. I don't remember having to say i will flip town even once.

Saying you are ttown over and over doesnt make it true. Your actions should speak for themselves. Yours just happen to say something different.

Not one person has made a solid town case based on your actions. I ask again, why should I read either of you as town?

I've seen that hundreds of times from new players. Afraid of being wrong, afraid of being manipulated, etc. That's what it sounded like to me. There was no lie, just my interpretation. To me he sounds town.

Calling it a lie just looks bad on you. It makes it seem like you are trying to turn nothing into something suspicious. How does that benefit the town?

Pedit my nonsense? Says the newbie to the IC...

He can't justify his reads. He can't justify why He should be called town.

Fuzzy could be partners with anyone then? You are trying to widen the net rather than pin this down. That equates to keeping options open. Right now, we should be trying to eliminate townreads from the Lynch pool, not toss more people in.

Satan - Town
Fuzzy - Town
RAN - town

Reg - Null

Skelda - scum
NOM - SCUM

Easy peezy. Who are your townreads Skelda?

What do YOU think of his recent posts and why do you think that?

hit me with a "why do you think that" first, you've been pretty coy with the reasoning for your townreads all game

I hate to pull the I asked you first card but I don't want your reasoning affected by my answers. Plus, there is still the fact that you owe me an answer for why I should think you are town.

I think I've made my reasoning behind many of my reads quite clear. You, Satan, skelda, Reg, 2pac... I've listed my thoughts on all of you.

Pedit take your time. All I ask is for those three read lists at 10 page intervals.

Just try to be caught up before deadline so you can make an informed decision.

And why should I be reading you as town? What have you done this game that should read as obv town?

I'm sorry, were you not saying you found him scummy? That's what I based that on. If you in fact find him town, why don't you go ahead and explain why so we can bring Skelda into the light. You seem to be avoiding that question altogether, just like the question of why I should read you as obv town.

Yet another discredit, surprise surprise...

Are you planning on answering anything?

Skelda...you know that the reason I jumped on the 2Pac wagon was that if I didnt vote for him we would end day 1 with a no lynch. You act likeit was still mid day and that I just jumped on his wagon bc it was the easiest lynch at the time. None which is true. Secondly its not like I had not suspected you as scum but jumped on you anyways. Like I said you are grasping at straws .

I look forward to reading Peabody reads.....also at this point I think that Ran is going to be replaced.

@ Ree what do you think about my town read on Nom.

Go ahead, tell me why this is or isn't town

And why should I be reading you as town? What have you done this game that should read as obv town?

My thoughts exactly... why are you avoiding this? I've only asked 7 times now.

I gave you an answer on fuzzy. He reads as town. I've asked several times what your read is yet you've said nothing.

You should all switch to Nom, apparently there is no reason to think he is town and he doesn't want to look bad for listing the reason he thinks town fuzzy is scum.

There is also the fact he cannot seem to list any reason I'm not town.

How many times is that....

[Mr_Ree]

@Peabody, because it would mean Skelda is probably scum. I'll double ISO both and point out the obvious coaching and defense by Skelda and null towards each other. It seems needless and unwarranted and it really stands out to me as scum tactics to avoid bussing.

I really didn't/don't see Satan as scum. He doesn't ACT like scum even if he sounds sorta off sometimes.

[Mr_Ree]

CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY I SHOULD HAVE A TOWN READ ON NOMINULL WHO HAS BEEN PLAYING DECIDEDLY ANTI TOWN ALL GAME, EVEN CONTINUING TO THIS VERY PAGE?

Pedit : I have to look back but I believe I listed reasons for it at the time. Something about the linking posts I believe between Nom and Skelda. Will post those next.

[Mr_Ree]

OMG YES!!!

Can you place the first vote?!?

It looks to me like you are the one not answering my question. What is it I haven't answered?

The other post you asked about was a continuation of this

[Mr_Ree]

Sthar, I really like that. Had you actually lynched him, I would have been outraged, but as it stands I think it reveals a lot about how quick to accuse some people are. At least one of the people who immediately voted for you is probably scum.

And the people going after Nomninull want an easy lynch. I'm reading him as stubborn town, and I don't want a lynch wasted on him when there are better candidates whose lynches will tell us more. Nomni, can you just give them reads to get them off of your back? Right now, if you are town, you had beter make an effort and not just let them waste today on you.

We don't want an easy lynch, Skelda, we want a correct lynch, and he's the scummiest to me right now. Why do you think we want an 'easy lynch'?

I feel like scum are convincing well-meaning townies to vote Nomni because he is being stubborn and trying to get rid of a behavior that is detrimental to the town's win. He has by no means great play, but there is a difference between disliking something and using your vote and persistence to make it stop, and scumminess. You guys need to see that.

And yes, because of his behavior and the town we have, getting Nomni lynched wouldn't be hard, especially with no one but me willing to defend him. I don't care about 2Pac, and I don't care about Nomni. Right now, I am convinced that they both are town. It is the people pushing Nomni who are scummy to me.

P-Edit: Fuzzy, that was obviously a gambit, no scum motive is there for sthar to do such a thing as she knew it could get her votes. That is why I am voting for you.

Nomni, please don't do that. You need to get your priorities straight. This is about winning, not proving a point. 2Pac has't even posted in a while, with any luck he will be replaced and we can move on. In the meantime, take the highroad, post your reads, and play to your wincon.

@ Skelda

You make a good point about his action .I am not sure yet.I need time to think it over a bit. I think maybe i was being a bit hard headed. Also I said that thought that the Nom wagon semed to be easy wagon so you were not the only defending him.

Skelda_ who do you deserves lynching .

The possibilities I see are...
Fuzzy-Bob
2Pac-Ranawey
Ranawey-Fuzzy
Fuzzy-2Pac

I am thinking 2Pac is town, but the arbitrary defending of him got him on the list. Those are the four that jump out at me, I'll go through all the combinations that are likely in a bit.

Also one thing I want to note before I forget, I really really don't think the interaction between Satan and Skelda are partners at all. The entire push and argument between each other heavily points against it. That means that if Satan flips scum which I'm pretty sure he will then Skelda is sadly town.

Why is that sad? Just sad you don't have both Day 1? I'm pretty sure the other scum will reveal themselves in time. Very well could be Ranawey... Or 2Pac, him voting Nomni now is idiotic.

This is ridiculous. We were so close to getting done with time to spare...

Ree, we are not lynching Null. All he has done is tunnel on 2Pac and be attacked and defended. Satan's flip is what we need right now. End of story. You just don't have the votes to kill Null.

my thoughts exactly.

Do you see the Nom connection or am I just seeing things here?

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah, that was impulsive. Better hope he flips scum. Either way, enjoy the game. I probably won't be around tomorrow. In case of town flip, Nom/Peabody/fuzzy are good options.

[Mr_Ree]

I really do want a scum flip here. I think it's quite possible but that hammer...

It makes me doubtful....

[Mr_Ree]

I'm alive???

I have take another look at this game. Since my links to Nom flipped town, it's more likely he is also town.

I think I may be down for fuzzy now. I have to check into him some more.

[Mr_Ree]

Agreed. Perhaps we need to take a better look at who fliped and why. Who did they suspect? Who do the kills draw attention to or away from. At the very least, 5 players gives each and every townie a 50/50 shot at nailing the correct choice. Decent odds.

[Mr_Ree]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Mr_Ree]

IfI was right about Nom, I should be dead But killing me would point to Nom...

I so wanted to be right but I'm probably not...

Still thinking...

[Mr_Ree]

Where are you in your reads Nom?

[Mr_Ree]

It was an odd choice.

Klick posted today @2:34pm according to his view user's posts in his profile.

[Mr_Ree]

Unless they intended for me to keep attacking you and you to keep attacking me. Even then, leave PB as Lynch bait and kill one of the 3 newbies.

PB was a strange choice.

[Mr_Ree]

Lets say Klick is confirmed scum, who would the other one be?

Tbh, Im waiting on Klick's replacement. Why bother replacing in?

@Klick replace out if you are not going to read or post.

@Everyone: Please do a town to scum read list. lets see if that gives us anything.

[Mr_Ree]

Sigh... replacements kill games..

At the same time, I'd rather someone actually playing the game.

Oh well

I thought I had a good handle on this game but I'm planning a full read through and I'm going to make notes on all of you.

[Mr_Ree]

No sign of Satan... damn...

I feel like the game is being stalled purposely. It's making me question my reads on all of you.

Wanna just Lynch Klick and hope for the best?

[Mr_Ree]

Crap... I think fuzzy may be town...

Damnit.. give me a bit. Will drop a vote ASAP.

[Mr_Ree]

I guess there's no evidence that Satan has been around since Klick placed that vote, so he and Klick could be scum together.

If you came to this conclusion, why not unvote?

[Mr_Ree]

@Mod: requesting deadline extension due to semi missing, now found players.

Pretty pretty please with a cherry on top

It's gut and the way he's been sounding today. That and I'm iffy on klick, and, to a lesser extent, you. Ranawey seemed town though and you've had endorsements from several flipped town players....

Need sleep ATM but will explain more in the morning. Everyone please try to be around 6ish hours to deadline if we don't get the extension. Also, better chances with more requests, just saying...

Based on the cop flip, either we have a JK or VT and they have RB+goon or goon/goon.

You know what, if we have another PR, you can totally help poe here. Now is a good time to claim. If it helps, I'm VT.

[Mr_Ree]

That's what makes me wonder...

I still have a town read on Satan. The lack of quick hammer suggests that both scum are already voting and town is unsure OR that Fuzzy is scum and Satan doesn't want to hammer his buddy or because he is unsure town.

What do you think about Klick, Nom?

BTW. There will be a Lynch today, even if I have to vote fuzzy.

[Mr_Ree]

... Ranawey was town... yeah... Klick's apathy could be vt apathy..

Who is the most likely partner for Fuzzy and why?

[Mr_Ree]

When Skelda suggested fuzzy/ran scumteam, why did you focus more on Fuzzy?

[Mr_Ree]

Vote Fuzzy

1. Archie was replaced before the end of day 1
2. There were only 2 nights.

Nom is conf town.

[Mr_Ree]

10 hours. Cross your fingers Nom.

All we need is One. More. Vote.

[Mr_Ree]

LOL. I was going to vote you at deadline either way. Hopefully someone finishes the job.

So guys, if someone hammers fuzzy and I'm not around tomorrow, look at his interactions. See who he ignored, who he FOS'd and who he defended. We have one, we can use him to find the other. Tear his posts to pieces and find the last one. He had to give it to us somewhere.

[Mr_Ree]

Ha! That was easy!

I know who your partner is..

[Mr_Ree]

Lol. You wish.

Your partner is the one you were defending, obviously.

[Mr_Ree]

You saw it didn't you...

thanks in advance.

[Mr_Ree]

Somebody get online and HAMMER!!!!!!

====[]

[Mr_Ree]

Why did you unvote after fuzzy's bad claim?

[Mr_Ree]

Why didn't you make it back before deadline?

I already know who I'm voting for but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

[Mr_Ree]

Fun fact: I have never picked wrong in 3 player lylo.

Hard part is getting here. I find the best way to ensure you do is to defend one while lynching the other. Shall we continue to drag this out or should I just hammer?

[Mr_Ree]

Alright here's the thing, I think there's a very good chance it's Satan BUT I'm going to hammer Klick.

Reason being, Satan actually hammered when not hammering would have won the game for scum.

Before I do anything, I want to hear from both of you on why I should Lynch the other.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm going to give this a few more days. Life is kicking my ass right now and I'm ready to start fighting back. I'll be putting focus back to my games over the next few days. Expect a hammer Monday.

Please continue your back and forth until then.

[Mr_Ree]

Im here. Busy at work today.

Klick is scum

[Mr_Ree]

I'm really waffling while reading ISOs with fuzzy.

Tbh I have no clue. I am currently reading Satan as scum. I think that's where my vote goes.

[Mr_Ree]

Screw it.

I'm scum. Just vote me and get it over with.

[Mr_Ree]

How do you know I'm not just giving you a fair chance? How do you know I'm not the last of the scum feeling dejected because this win was SO easy. So easy that I feel I have to give the last two townies a chance so I can feel better about my scum win?

Let me ask you something Satan, When you claimed, why did you first claim "neither roleblocker nor goon"?

There are so many little things I'm finding now while going through ISOs (again). Ran did a lot of conversing with fuzzy before he replaced out. There was also a time when Ran voted fuzzy but dropped that read/vote soon after. Unfortunately, I've missed my chance to ask him anything about it.

@Klick: why the apathy towards this game? I notice you have been more active in others. Have you finished reading this game and done ISOs with both Satan and I with fuzzy?

@Satan: How old are you, what do you do for a living IRL? What is your native language? I'm trying to get into your head here. There is a lot of content but little transparency. I'm having a hard time figuring you out. There seemed to be some genuine confusion and you have come under a lot of fire this game for it. That's basically what I'm going to grill you on until I'm able to get a solid read off you. If you are indeed town, I need you to be active enough to figure you out.

[Mr_Ree]

I'm town. That was yet another gambit. I was trying to bait out the real scum. Again, your reaction wasn't what I expected it to be and that has left me with even more questions.

Sigh...

vote Klick

Sorry guys if this goes sideways. Gg you all played well

[Mr_Ree]

No going back now.

Are you town or scum Klick?

[Mr_Ree]

[Mr_Ree]

I hope you are pulling a me. in either case, i had to give it to Satan for needlessly hammering Fuzzy if he is scum.

[Mr_Ree]

Sorry guys....

activity was so low... I tried...