Newbie 1436 ~ Game Over

[Bert]

Hi...

This does not feel like a newbie game

Dat playerlist <3

Spoiler:

[Bert]

VOTE: Cabd

[Bert]

Because I sheeped notscience in 513 and 514, and I'm doing it again since I think ns is town

but I've just skimmed and done nothing else in this game

sheeping notscience is proven to work if you pick the right time

this is the right time

therefore I an notscience's sheep

/pat

[Bert]

Don't dive 1402, it makes me sad.

+1

This whole- "You've seen my scumgame" bit is a lie. You've told me that you always change how you play your scumgame after every finished game. So, that is ultimately null and the fact you're trying to use that to make me townread you is moronic.

This is so true about Cabd. Even when I was talking to Nacho one time, he told me that Cabd changes his scumgame play frequently.

Anyways, I actually just skimmed the game for the first time since I've been here.

T S O seems pretty scummy gut-wise, kinda like I remember from being his partner on Day 1 in Mini 1462. Really don't have any other solid reads other than NS-supertown. And so I'm just gonna sheep NS until the day I die. <3

SOOOOOOO yeah. Good night, 2:49 AM and gotta wake up at 7 LOL.

[Bert]

Oh goodie, bert replaced into a town slot. Shame though, I kinda liked getting to talk to you at night, bert. (giffy's micro)

So....

Town: (This is in order of strength)
Agi102 (not lynching this)
Bert (his slot felt town vibey, we'll see how bert plays)
GM (CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL GUYS)
Ffery (low town but she goes here for now)

Null:
notsci (You just saw me own you as scum in gif's micro, you should know what my scum play looks like now, this ain't it kiddo, but you don't usually try to 1v1 as town so we'll see)
Gravija (Less opinions about rules mechanics, more opinions about players and their play please)

Scum:
TSO (naked votes are bad and you should feel bad)
Sakura (Hey sakura come play with me, girl. You're not going to get away with lurking away just because players that can nail your ass to the wall replaced in.)

VOTE: TSO




And notsci, you wondered why I didn't vote sakura before asking questions? Let me show you why: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5140291

Is there a reason you posted your first reads list after I replaced in?

Town

notscience - paranoia + decisiveness
ag102 - transparently town motivation
Bert - mostly on basis of predecessor

Null

gravija - irritability-based votes, otherwise pretty passive
Sakura Hana - almost moved her up. null for now because lack of content. I guess the main thing that troubles me is she apparently thinks she's seeing town-Cabd this early in a game
goodmorning - staying out of most of the hot spots
Cabd - the one townish thing I'll give him is that he's not trying to get on my good side

Scum

T S O - aggressively low content, and reacted to pokes about content by showering the thread with...content

Vote: T S O

Same question to you - is this your way of working with cabd. And does your vote no TSO have nothing to do with what I said about TSO in the previous post?

Just making sure. And yes, I am fully caught up skimming-wise with this game.

[Bert]

Actually, you're right.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Sakura

For massive amounts of lurking.

Huh? Please don't do this. This usually begets trouble.

[Bert]

Do you disagree with any of my reads?

No, but my reads aren't solid, but I really like the vibe of your reads list.

But um why do you think it's not good that Sakura thinks she/he is seeing town-Cabd?

Is there such a thing as town-Cabd?

[Bert]

I think what I meant to say is:

is meta useful for him...but yes, I understand what you mean. So what I can try to do is look into Cabd's play in this game in a more productive light is all

[Bert]

It's incautious at the least. She's played at least 3 games with scum-Cabd. scum-Morph the Cat accounts for three games, and there may be others.

Ah. I missed this point of yours about Sakura. Now I understand. Hmm...

[Bert]

The reason I replaced in is because Cabd IMed me about mala needing 2 replacements. I can see why that post looks like buddying to others, but to me it was and is just acknowledgement that we intentionally replaced in to the same game.

I knew that you two had to have replaced into the same game on purpose.

Honestly, I saw this playerlist and was like <333. This doesn't feel like a newbie game at all, much like my last newbie with notscience and GM where on Day 1 only 2 newbies (marjam and Joanne) were there.

[Bert]

Lmfao, he knows I hate cases and asks for one.

I said earlier TSO and Sakura were scum and now "oh yeah they're scum" yet you apparently don't have a townread on me when I thought them before you did. I said Agi was town before you did.

Seemslegit

You're trying to come up with reasons to feed the town paranoia about me (NS you've been lurking/inactive in your recent games, you scum bro?)

notscience, you think you've been incredibly obvtown, right? And should be an easy read?

Also, why do you hate cases? you made a nice one on GM in 514?

[Bert]

T S O is very Jason Wazza like from what I remember of 1462. I played scum with him for like 2/3 of Day 1 during that game.

[Bert]

It turns out, if you take gatorade powder, but use vodka instead of water because fuck water, that the end result is really good.

In other news, i'm still town as fuck, so screw you TSO. You won't be able to mislynch me.

Why the AtE from you, of all people??? This looks bad and you should feel bad

[Bert]

I don't know. You were supposed to be my scumbuddy in 222 Assassins in the Palace, but you never showed up in our QT. And you got replaced for inactivity in 1462. So I don't know what to think of you, I just remember vague impressions of your play in 1462.

During 1462, all I remember other than you being rather defensive is you didn't really fight back when I was your scumbuddy and named you as a scumread (gut). Also, you never made much of a presence because you were generally inactive. I've never seen your towngame, but I do have gut/general vibes/impressions remaining from that brief day 1 in 1462.

[Bert]

I'm kinda surprised you're still playing in games because you got replaced out in several games and didn't appear to be that interested in continuing any games you were in, to be honest with you.

[Bert]

I find Sakura's suicidal play to be pretty null

[Bert]

R was notsci

L was Mara

M was unknown

And yes Im here but sleepy and have a test in 8 hours

Will revisit all this after tomorrow afternoon - have fall break starting in 15 hours yayyyy

Idk how to read cabd tbh

Notscience is *probably* town but I'm not that confident

Ffery *seems* town

TSO is being too nice. Why is he/she scum, again?

Sakura don't know yet

Kaze's entrance seems overeager to appear town, maybe I am overthinking

That is my initial gut feelings

Also agi has been gone so much since I replaced in that I have no recollection or impression of humor her during real-time interactions

[Bert]

My thoughts are I will not underestimate notscience's ability to fake town meta

GM has made no impression on me. Need real time interactions to get some feelings going. Talk to meee, who do you think is scum? Re-read done yet?

[Bert]

Hey cabd

Sort ffery please??

Bc if she's super duper town

I will sheep her as long as she lives

[Bert]

Yes I want him to stop saying you're null

Because he obviously has an opinion on you andknowsyou well

[Bert]

Bout time they let you go.

Hey Kaze, would you please explain what is scummy about TSO? You just stated he's scum and didnt back it up.

I'm not feeling a scum vibe from TSO, so what am I missing? Please elaborate

[Bert]

I looked back briefly at 1462 and my memory of TSO was wrong.

[Bert]

And Cabd, gut feels you're town from your latest posts.

But I won't spare you if my stronger townreads say you're scum.

Ffery seems town so far

/phone post

[Bert]

<GM, Sakura>

The most confusing of all, I'll leave that up to you all. Either could be scum.

[Bert]

<GM, Sakura>

The most confusing of all, I'll leave that up to you all. Either could be scum.

[Bert]

Lagging, please delete double post please. <3

[Bert]

Please please please please excuse my spam here,

I was procrastinating and half-awake on my phone!!! So in 5 hours I promise to prod you all with a stick!

unvote

Need to think.

[Bert]

I feel the same about Sakura's absence.

do you think GM's slow start should be worrisome?

[Bert]

Notsci is being obnoxious and conf-biased; but as I've said before, being wrong does not scum make.

is notscience a hard read for you to make, or...

Bert is town as fuck so far, although he needs to learn to recognize drunkposting. He also replaced into a slot i townread.

why

why am I town?? I am no sweetheart

I think I need to reread this, but I doubt my opinions will change much.

Why hello there, darling.

Would you like to meet Bert? GM, meet Bert because you haven't been here to meet him yet. Don't break my heart...

[Bert]

Hope it goes good!

[Bert]

I can see scum-Cabd coming up with yet another way to fuck with my mind, but he came into the game the same time I did and he would have had no chance to lay the groundwork with Sakura or any other hypothetical scumbuddy in the pregame. It's going to be totally impromptu and without much help from his scumbuddy, or it's not going to happen until day 2. That goes for any gambit, not just one designed to screw with my head.

What do you think of Cabd's trajectory so far? Comments?

[Bert]

OMGUS?

May I ask why, or...

is this one of those cryptic, unpredictable, nonsensical accusation intended to incite a reaction from me? No wait, don't answer that.

I know what you're doing. <3

[Bert]

@Sakura: reads list please, scumspect dah'lin!

[Bert]

Hey Sakura, hey answer my question??? Why the OMGUS?? <3

Lack of reach out or sorting effort from Cabd has also bothered me, but jury duty.

Overall he's reminding me of the Perpetual MYLO game. :/

Hmm....that's the game that you compared his 231 Mismatched play with. Hmm.....interesting, and worrisome at the same time

I'm already stepping it up, are you having problems?

Can you see why she might be having problems?

[Bert]

Meh, Kaze's predecessor felt kinda town. Kaze, not so much. Reads list feels kind of empty, and it's like she/he is appearing to be doing something but not really doing anything, if that makes any sense at all. Meh.

If Cabd's trajectory is eerily reminiscent of Perpetual and Mismatched, then something's up.

TSO feels kinda town, that's why I asked Cabd and others to reiterate what's so scummy about TSO because I don't really get it right now

No, step 3 is the problem.

Sakura does that as a suicidal play because

she knows it works on you.

And it's working right now.

Sakura isn't going to flip because if I went for her then Cabd would turn on me for going for an "easy lynch." It works both ways.

This felt so genuine.

Vote: Cabd

Don't think my vote's moving in the three days remaining. <3 Love ya, Cabd, but no sirree you gotta go today, me thinks.

[Bert]

With GM it's really more the low level of engagement. I kinda expected some significant catch up from her yesterday. Our last MS game together she was scum. She kinda messed with me on day 1 of that game. She made a joking reference to that in a post right after my replace-in. Other than that, I feel like any reach-out has mostly been from my end.

GM was scum in your modded game, that's my last experience with her. She's being lurky IMO, absence notwithstanding. I do remember her saying that she felt her scumplay was better during her early/earlier years on this site...that's just a random recollection of a thought/memory. Err...she hasn't really made a mark in this game, so I can't really say anything for certain, other than that if she does not show up soon then something's up.

I think I need to reread this, but I doubt my opinions will change much.

This sort of bothers me, because I would think she's more opinionated than that...

[Bert]

Just pick me then

because I'm townreading Cabd and TSO, and

im just pretty much useless here anyway

Sakura, seriously, stop that. It makes you look super scummy. You want to know what makes you look scummy

^that quoted post is it

[Bert]

I still think Bert's scum, and if he's town his gut is most likely wrong anyway.

And you're wrong in this game about me, and you're most likely wrong because you had me as town in Mismatched and are not aware of how I have to emulate gut-reading tendencies as scum. (See my logic here? Yes, it's bad, and that's the kind of logic you just used, so I'm doing the same thing you juts did of "Bert's still gut-scum, and even if he's town, his gut's wrong anyway".) What's the point of saying my gut's wrong anyway??

"If he's town his gut is most likely wrong anyway" does not EQUAL Bert should die like you're implying it should

And your read on me is gut too, and we're all wrong sometimes. You seriously just read me as scum because I was using my "gut," and you know this is a staple of my game as you have seen me as town multiple times.

now talk to me, Sakura. Why is Cabd town again??

[Bert]

And what if it makes me look scummy? Do I look like I care? I'm used to being lynched by now, and if I have to find scum via people voting me so be it.

Does it look like you're being lynched today?

No.

[Bert]

Sakura, I'm reading you as town (starting from the past two hours - not based on the rest of your play which I was not present for (real-time))

because you're reminding me of 514 right now, and your paranoia/defensiveness is like off-the-charts. Which post read transparent and genuine?? Please point it out to us

[Bert]

goodmorning, I'm nachopappa and we were in Newbie 1402 and Micro 189 together - also 514 Masons in Serona (sp?) Ffery's game where I was Bert.

[Bert]

I know. I was being facetious.

Ya know, speaking of 1402, which you are just thrilled to talk about - what do you think of notscience here???

[Bert]

Why is he scum?

ISO me.

I have a whole week off...and I'm only in three games so this game will get a lot of attention as I feel comfortable here, knowing everyone except agi from past games <3

OK, first, Sakura: I recommend you ISO notscience and cabd simultaneously so you can read their interactions (with post #'s and what-not). I tried just skimming notscience's ISO alone and that is not sufficient by itself. Or, you can catch up! How about catching up fully? But from what I just skimmed, 178-180 range had some good lengthy interactions between notscience and cabd.

More posts later. I am pumped for this game. YEAH

[Bert]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 1.1

*Cabd - T S O, notscience, Bert [3]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert - Sakura Hana [1]
*Kazekirimaru -
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, agi102, Kazekirimaru, goodmorning [4]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Fferyllt [1]

Not voting:

[Bert]

We had gone almost 4 pages without a VC, so I figured why not I go skim and make an unofficial VC - hope that's legal. <3

Because I was confused as to who's voting who as well.

[Bert]

UNVOTE: Ffery
VOTE: agi
UNVOTE: agi
VOTE: bert
UNVOTE: bert
VOTE: Gravija
UNVOTE: gravija
VOTE: Cabd
UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: T S O
UNVOTE: T S O

tl;dr ffery is unrandomvoted

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 1.2

Cabd - T S O, notscience, Bert [3]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert - Sakura Hana [1]
*Kazekirimaru -
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, Kazekirimaru, goodmorning [3]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Fferyllt [1]

[Bert]

Mala counted post 240 by agi as a vote for TSO, apparently? It should be an Unvote, unless I'm interpreting the post and the voting rules incorrectly. So TSO is at lynch -2?

[Bert]

Hey GM, what's your case on TSO? I can't find a post of yours detailing one.

You don't seem to be very townie feeling so far this game. That's what bothers me. Where's your forceful pushing, because that vote felt empty and smelled bad like sheep-breath. It didnt feel right or natural.

[Bert]

Vote: goodmorning

[Bert]

So suddenly from TSO, Cabd scumteam people start seeing GM as scum.

Btw Bert you're not gonna get towncred for busing.

1) I have not said TSO is scum. When did I say that?

2) Blatant mudslinging doesn't do anything for you.

3) The "btw you get no towncred for bussing" is just as bad as me saying "you don't get towncred for defending Cabd."

[Bert]

So you no longer think Cabd is scum?

Why do you think GM is scum? Is it for the same reasons I pointed out last week?

What do you actually think of me defending Cabd and TSO?

GM hasn't done anything I find townie, and her play seems rather passive tbh. Not really pushing anything new, not giving input that seems useful. She's just....there. You know what I mean?

Look, you're gonna have to work with me this game. I *think* you're town, with your knee-jerk reactions and paranoia and pseudo-meltdowns. My lynch just ain't happening, with everyone here except agi knowing my scumgame and towngame quite well, for the most part (Cabd, ffery, notscience in particular). I can play however Bert-like I want here and not have to be scared of being misunderstood. Heck, even TSO has been scum with me twice out of six scumgames.

And as for my GM vote, I decided hey, I'm gonna lead a wagon and just not feel like I came in and just sheeped a townread for the heck of it. Because that means I'm being easily manipulated, and I won't have that this game, at least not until I have a better read on everyone. Even notscience's style can be faked, so I'm going to look into everything that my limited skimming self can look into. But yes, notscience I *think* is town, but it's not quite as strong as my townread on you. And as I said, I'm in THREE games so expect this game to get lots of focus from me and I will town it up like never before.

If you want my thought process about Cabd, it's this: I woke up with it this morning. I was telling myself, "Bert, don't you think it's awfully convenient that Cabd is playing the exact same way he did in Mismatched, almost to a fault, as well as Perpetual MYLO?" As I said, I can't read Cabd worth anything, and Ffery hasn't pronounced a Cabd scumread. So far, it's conjecture along with two people yelling at me to vote Cabd. If Ffery really gets in a groove and says "Bert, Cabd is screaming scum at the top of his lungs," then I will sheep her if I feel she's town.

TOWNREADS:

Pretty Town <Ffery, Sakura, notscience>

seems town: <agi> - that playstyle will probably look the same regardless of alignment, but I have to say, coming into the game last night and seeing him/her post "here's a post full of nothing because I've got nothing" screams pretty town to me

confused about my read: <TSO, Cabd>

Leaning Scum: <GM, Kaze> Some gut, but also GM not doing anything townie-looking ANYWHERE....and that god-awful TSO switch that really made no sense in terms of rhythm and naturalness and in the flow of the game, it did not FEEL right at all. More like jumping onto a wagon for the sake of it. Kaze is a feeling thing, his/her posts coming in just felt a bit empty. I don't feel the Kaze town-PASSION I remember feeling in 219, which I interpreted as scum in that game. I feel more cautiousness, where the passion isn't being mimicked.

That is where I stand.

[Bert]

TSO's more likely to be scum than Cabd, I think, and my logic (haha don't laugh) is that he's being a bit too nice for TSO (you'll be like BERT ARE YOU KIDDING ME).... but it's true LOL

[Bert]

No, I didn't even notice you were voting GM. I had no opinion about you until yesterday, and honestly most of my reads/feelings come from real-time interaction, of which I had next-to-nil until you showed up yesterday while I was at school studying for tests.

And that's when my townread of you developed.

My read on GM developed today, after reading her posts, and afterwards supplementing that by skimming her ISO carefully.

[Bert]

Since I came in, it seems like TSO and Cabd have been the big yee-haw wagons. Like woopdedoo, HEY GUYS JUMP ON TSO OR CABD WAGONS and we'll take you to the PROMISED LAND! That's how it felt like, entering in, but now I'm on fall break as of today and fully awake and I'm just like, forget it, everyone here knows me, I'll put forth everything I've got into this game.

[Bert]

Both of you have been noticeably absent ever since I replaced in - ever thought of that?

[Bert]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 1.3

*Cabd - T S O, notscience [2]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert - Sakura Hana [1]
*Kazekirimaru -
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, Kazekirimaru, goodmorning [3]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Bert [1]

Not voting - fferyllt, agi102 [2]

[Bert]

Scum try their hardest to be consistent and not make stupid mistakes, so forgetting who you're voting/not bothering to look back at your last vote feels town, albeit careless.

Not necessarily. I've seen Majiffy forget set-ups, who just died, etc., as scum. It goes both ways, but I understand your sentiment.

Also when did we play together? I don't recall ever playing with you.

I was part of NOTYOCHEEZ in 219, where I hammered you Day 1. Does that ring a bell?

Are you telling me you're putting off serious votes because fuck it?

No, my vote on Cabd was serious. It was a serious sheep vote (80% sheep, 20% consciousness). Coming in, I had nothing better, and my reads on everyone were not confident and not developed at all (even gut-wise, which is what I rely on for the most part). Cabd didn't look town, but neither did anyone else save for notscience - I alluded to that upon coming in, if you read back.

Now that I'm in the flow of the game and I feel comfortable (which doesn't happen in all games), I am being my own player.

[Bert]

This brings me back to: why are you still voting Cabd?

I'm not!!!! Did you neglect to read the last few unofficial votecounts???!?!?!?!?

[Bert]

So TL;DR no more sheeping from Bert.

I still will, but it will be selective sheeping of a darn good, rock solid townread who I think isn't just scum playing very well (hopefully I don't get deceived easily)

[Bert]

Only major major major thing that might have us all fooled is if Ffery and Cabd are scum together, which would explain Ffery's unwillingness to call Cabd scum outright and just say "she's still figuring him out, yada-yada-yada." Seriously doubt it though, but hey, paranoia speaks for itself sometimes, ya know?

[Bert]

TSO needs rope asap.

Okay, Kaze, my good sir:

Since you do not see GM as scum, why do you see TSO as scum? You still haven't explained it. Is it gut, something else ping you, what??

[Bert]

Thanks, I forgot about that.

I just realized I'm voting with my other scumread and a null read. But my other scumread is being voted by...my other scumread. -twitch-

I'm not gonna wagon analyze right now.

Have you wagon analyzed yet, or is your conclusion that you don't like the composition of the people on the TSO wagon, them being a mix of scum/null reads?

I see. See, this helps me relate to your thought process (or at least try to).

[Bert]

What's your conclusion about GM, Ffery? Yeah, I skimmed it all. First part you list what's town about her, and then the second part you list what's bothering you. What do you want me to comment on, specifically?

Can we please for the love of god get votes back on scum-cabd?

Comments unrelated to Cabd please, like ffery just asked you to do. And no, I'm not caving into your pressure to vote Cabd because you said so. That won't do. And reiterating why you're voting Cabd in a way that makes sense would help too, while you're at it. "ISO me" is not an acceptable response

[Bert]

Bert, yours wasn't really a "case" persay.

Did I say I have a case? No!

I do have observations and gut feelings. Now, why are you voting Cabd? Don't you avoid my question like that please <3

What I want to know is "why"

"because he's scum" does NOT work here, okay? I am reaching out to you, if it isn't super duper obvious already

[Bert]

Lmfao, he knows I hate cases and asks for one.

I said earlier TSO and Sakura were scum and now "oh yeah they're scum" yet you apparently don't have a townread on me when I thought them before you did. I said Agi was town before you did.

Seemslegit

You're trying to come up with reasons to feed the town paranoia about me (NS you've been lurking/inactive in your recent games, you scum bro?)

This whole- "You've seen my scumgame" bit is a lie. You've told me that you always change how you play your scumgame after every finished game. So, that is ultimately null and the fact you're trying to use that to make me townread you is moronic.

You had that joking/buddy attempt on ffery when you came in- why? Because she knows you best of all the players and poses the biggest threat.

OK, I see it. THANKS! <333333

[Bert]

Bert, I'm too nice? Since when have I been mean? >_>

PEDIT: LIKE 6 POSTS, STOP POSTING FOR 5 SECS

START POSTING FOR LIKE 5 SECS <3

You're more err... passive-aggressive-defensive from what I remember (that's the vibe).

But hey, I'm not voting you, so be happy and thank you for checking in

Bert, who exactly do you think is scum? I'm not getting it from your stances, so spell it out.

now please comment on all the updates since you were gone

Thanks in advance!!! <333333333

Oh, and my reads are below - since you obviously haven't caught up! BAD TSO BAD THATS BAD

Spoiler:

So you no longer think Cabd is scum?

Why do you think GM is scum? Is it for the same reasons I pointed out last week?

What do you actually think of me defending Cabd and TSO?

GM hasn't done anything I find townie, and her play seems rather passive tbh. Not really pushing anything new, not giving input that seems useful. She's just....there. You know what I mean?

Look, you're gonna have to work with me this game. I *think* you're town, with your knee-jerk reactions and paranoia and pseudo-meltdowns. My lynch just ain't happening, with everyone here except agi knowing my scumgame and towngame quite well, for the most part (Cabd, ffery, notscience in particular). I can play however Bert-like I want here and not have to be scared of being misunderstood. Heck, even TSO has been scum with me twice out of six scumgames.

And as for my GM vote, I decided hey, I'm gonna lead a wagon and just not feel like I came in and just sheeped a townread for the heck of it. Because that means I'm being easily manipulated, and I won't have that this game, at least not until I have a better read on everyone. Even notscience's style can be faked, so I'm going to look into everything that my limited skimming self can look into. But yes, notscience I *think* is town, but it's not quite as strong as my townread on you. And as I said, I'm in THREE games so expect this game to get lots of focus from me and I will town it up like never before.

If you want my thought process about Cabd, it's this: I woke up with it this morning. I was telling myself, "Bert, don't you think it's awfully convenient that Cabd is playing the exact same way he did in Mismatched, almost to a fault, as well as Perpetual MYLO?" As I said, I can't read Cabd worth anything, and Ffery hasn't pronounced a Cabd scumread. So far, it's conjecture along with two people yelling at me to vote Cabd. If Ffery really gets in a groove and says "Bert, Cabd is screaming scum at the top of his lungs," then I will sheep her if I feel she's town.

TOWNREADS:

Pretty Town <Ffery, Sakura, notscience>

seems town: <agi> - that playstyle will probably look the same regardless of alignment, but I have to say, coming into the game last night and seeing him/her post "here's a post full of nothing because I've got nothing" screams pretty town to me

confused about my read: <TSO, Cabd>

Leaning Scum: <GM, Kaze> Some gut, but also GM not doing anything townie-looking ANYWHERE....and that god-awful TSO switch that really made no sense in terms of rhythm and naturalness and in the flow of the game, it did not FEEL right at all. More like jumping onto a wagon for the sake of it. Kaze is a feeling thing, his/her posts coming in just felt a bit empty. I don't feel the Kaze town-PASSION I remember feeling in 219, which I interpreted as scum in that game. I feel more cautiousness, where the passion isn't being mimicked.

That is where I stand.

[Bert]

^OK, ns, now get out of your hidey hole 100% now and comment about people other than cabd

<3

[Bert]

@ns - So...nothing new, then? No recent developments on your reads? You're not stubbornly riding your vote now, are you?

[Bert]

notscience, your read on Cabd is the easiest for you to write if you're scum - as that's who you have tunneled for pretty much the majority of the time I've been here

so now I want to see you write some other stuff about everyone else and why you suspect them, etc., etc.

none of this requires much time if you consolidate! <3 Is that too much to ask?

[Bert]

Have I not been showing development in my Sakura read?

You may have and I may not have noticed, but regardless you gotta talk to me like I'm a 5 year old child that needs a lotta help in school and math homework

And yay your reads <3 This is great for future reference, you da man! <333333

[Bert]

Have I not been showing development in my Sakura read?

TSO is probably trying to hardbus his scumbuddy, thus why he's so insistent on him being the shepherd to the flock.

OK, so you think it's TSO-Cabd or TSO-Sakura.

And you're voting Cabd. I see. Hmm....

[Bert]

Anyhow, I re-read 1398 for some insight on TSO. He is a lot more vitriolic in that game than this one. Kinda solidifies my read. Yet the WAGON STILL BOTHERS ME fuck

That's interesting, I'm not great at meta-diving or recalling the past correctly (should ask Ffery about 1415 where I meta'd her and got all the wrong impressions - that's why I rarely do any in-depth skimming metadiving...I even avoid skimming old games sometimes hahaha).

Anyways, which game do you speak of? I must have it backwards then with regard to 1462

[Bert]

ns tunneling is town-ns but ns himself said in the last newbie game we shared that he was in the process of changing his meta so I am trying not to take too much stock in such things.

Good point about meta-dodging there that you just mentioned.

That's why it's hard to tell about Cabd, as he changes it up frequently too. It does bother me that he made that comment to NS about "you've seen me as town, you should know I'm town here." That gave me pause for a second there, for sure. A long long second.

[Bert]

I really hate it when people excessively add "I see" and "hmm" to the end of posts. It's like you're trying too hard to seem like you're really thinking on it. Trying to make sure town knows your gears are turning, cause scum doesn't need to scumhunt too hard, amirite? Bert, you're giving me weird feels.

I always do that regardless of alignment, so you can choose whether it's genuine or not. I'm very melodramatic if I'm engaged - which isn't often.

If you want to know what my gut feels, it's that TSO is probably a mislynch waiting to happen. Solely gut.

And I'm teetering between Cabd and GM. Cabd is for weird comments throughout the game that ping, his play being lackadaisical similar to Mismatched, as well as Ffery (and to a lesser extent others) making remarks about how Cabd is not very townie at all. GM is for not doing anything townie looking, to be blunt. And for the voting pattern she has projected so far, along with lack of explanations. Where's the fire?

[Bert]

EBWOP: And Cabd's meta is so much WIFOM right now, because it's similar to Mismatched but "would he be blatant enough to do that two games in a row" is a messy WIFOM argument waiting to explode and ruin our fresh perspective on him. Based on his play here, just his play, I'd lynch him. GM, not as much, but I have more expectations for her.

Bah, humbug!

[Bert]

@Ffery: I understand GM took stances, that does make me feel a tad (a teensy weensy bit) better, but not by much if at all.

[Bert]

This is what I wanted to talk to Ffery and everyone else about:

Fine. You want your 1v1? You're not really going to get it until I think you're scum. So you get a 1v0. Go ahead, make a proper case for me and I'll put in special effort just for you to show you how you're entirely wrong.

In other news, i'm still town as fuck, so screw you TSO. You won't be able to mislynch me.

It's what I call the "intimidation factor." Why is Cabd resorting to this, and is it alignment-indicative or a tell in any way, shape, or form? Surely, this looks like it's supposed to arouse fear in the other and persuade someone to back down from attacking him?

Why not talk it out, or at least be more reachable for everyone

Tell me what you think, please?

[Bert]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 1.4

*Cabd - T S O, notscience [2]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert -
*Kazekirimaru -
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, Kazekirimaru, goodmorning [3]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Bert, Sakura [2]

Not voting - fferyllt, agi102 [2]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-10-04 23:50:00)

[Bert]

Anyhow, I re-read 1398 for some insight on TSO. He is a lot more vitriolic in that game than this one. Kinda solidifies my read. Yet the WAGON STILL BOTHERS ME fuck

TSO, it's really interesting that your most vitriolic post of all (quoted below) came shortly after Kaze called you out for not being as vitriolic as you apparently are as scum.

And I'm gonna address right here that my wagon is a load of shit. Who's on it? Scum Cabd, who's pushing my lynch since I'm pushing his. Kazekimaru, who's catch-up contained

not one post showing me to be scum

, whose case on me is "I feel different and my townreads are on your wagon." Then when he finds out his townreads

aren't

on my wagon he smiles and just stays on it, proving HE DOESN'T NEED A REASON TO PUSH THE WAGON BECAUSE HE HAS NOTHING. He's stuck on it now and he can't get off it. notscience, who's pigheaded case on me is a direct attempt by him to gain all the credit when Cabd flips scum (he's town, just selfish) and goodmorning, who just switched onto the wagon because he thought he might get away with it.

[Bert]

as you apparently are as town* typo.

It seemed more dismissive than intimidating.

OK. I skimmed the examples you provided in those links. I'm not sure what to think, then. I feel the dismissiveness was more unyielding here compared to those examples which were more or less milder. I don't know what I'm trying to say.

[Bert]

But I don't actually want Cabd's lynch to go through so despite championing the lynch I'm actively hoping it will fail.

Huh? You're hoping it will fail? Do you think Cabd's scum or not, because your vote indicates you think he is...

if not, why are you voting him then

[Bert]

Am I crazy for thinking Cabd-GM as a team? Or GM is WKing Cabd for some reason...

GM's comments regarding Cabd are sorta sparse...

Spoiler:

@fferyllt: I don't recall having found it particularly difficult. Cabd is slightly more excitable generally.

It's not that I find him scummy as such, more that I find him the least towny of everyone I'm not reading as Scum.

Notsci this is how Cabd acts all the time.
In other words, I'm not seeing alignment either way.

And Cabd's lack of reaching out to Ffery is not a good thing either - he hasn't since they first entered the game together, I think?

"In post 330, Bert wrote:
GM has made no impression on me. Need real time interactions to get some feelings going. Talk to meee, who do you think is scum? Re-read done yet?"

Yes it is done, and still T S O and Sakura with low-and-unlikely chance of Cabd.

[Bert]

Or GM is WKing Cabd for some reason...

I didn't mean WKing. Disregard that part of my post. Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm trying to get all my thoughts in with 2 days left till deadline, and I'm in a pickle. Sorry again.

[Bert]

Sorry again for the multiple posts. Kaze's right about the wagon construction of TSO. Cabd and GM on there doesn't look right, even Kaze on there too. That's almost all scumspects.

Pretty Town: <notscience, ffery, Sakura, agi102>

Scumspects in no particular order, by virtue of POE and not being a townread: <TSO, Cabd, Kaze, GM>

Three of the latter group are on the TSO wagon. I actually do see what Kaze was saying about feeling weird about going onto the TSO wagon. Crap. I have that sinking feeling that i'm missing something. :/

[Bert]

Yeah, Cabd wouldn't mind bussing. That's true. I'm not comfortable with Kaze, but that's OK... no one else is considering Kaze today so no use in concerning myself with that.

Ffery, what do you think of Kaze? You said she made a good point about GM's carelessness probably being more likely to be coming from town. Other than that, I can't find you having commented about that slot in the last couple of days.

I *think* Kaze has looked better in the past couple of hours, but I am still not quite comfortable with him. Thoughts would be nice...

[Bert]

Sakura-Cabd team.

Game nailed.

How did you nail them, and why do you feel that this team is scum?

I was thinking along the lines of with a Cabd-you scumteam, anything not him would be good.#

NS, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

And why tomorrow, not today? Your reads stagnated, much like GM's.

[Bert]

Yeah, evolving players are difficult to look into for me. I did just skim my game with him where he got lynched in 7 pages. It was more of a quicklynch than anything - Guyett didn't like his "reactions after being voted," BRO called him out for a "terrible vote on himself," and that was that... I'm guilty of being the impulsive hammerer.

[Bert]

Hey ns, I've been thinking about stuff the last 10 minutes, and I'm considering about lynching Cabd with you.

I need some reactions from GM first, before I make my final conclusion. But I think that's potentially where I'm headed. *shrug*

GM

, I want to tell me your reads on everyone, EVERYONE, including me. Try to elaborate why. You want to survive? Then give some reads and town it up if you're town.

TOWN
notscience
agi102
Ffery
Sakura
TSO/Kaze

Cabd/GM
SCUM

[Bert]

EBWOP: I had to put all the feelings and confusion coming from Cabd's meta to look objectively about my thoughts, without that kind of bias. That's how I sorted my thoughts in order to see what lynch(es) I'd be content with.

[Bert]

Double bus?
I WON'T BELIEVE IT
THIS ISN'T HAPPENING

Are you caught up??? What you can do to prevent being a mislynch down the line if you're town is...tell us what else you're thinking about anyone - that would be a great start, at least I think it would be personally <3

You have your vote, but you're not using it...do you plan to? why or why not?

[Bert]

Bert, you're pretty much my only solid townread. Why do you think ns is town?

It all boils down to him playing like he usually does as town - from what I've seen of him in previous games.

He may be mimicking his town "crazy" vibe, who knows - I don't know how good he is at doing that...because in the scumgame he was in where I was town, he wasn't this tunnely and boisterous and nonsensical. Someone earlier in this game said that he has mentioned that he would like to meta-dodge...

I've read several people here wrong before in the past (Ffery, Sakura, notscience, in particular), so if you think ns is likely scum, please tell me why and I'll definitely consider what you're saying

Sorry, I got the gender wrong several times in this game. You're a "he." Err.. I'm having trouble deciding on who I want going down today as well. The scumspect pool is voting each other, pretty much, so wagon analysis isn't doing me any good - it makes me paranoid, if anything.

[Bert]

- I usually sheep my strongest townread, but yeah...it can get me in trouble if the townread is just playing scum extremely well

- I really just skim and am not capable of actually reading thoroughly and giving analysis, so gut reads and a little logic here and there are all I can give. Why are you reading me as town? I'm playing this freely here because almost everyone knows me...so I don't feel obligated to take a more conservative approach. Otherwise, I might be in danger of being lynched easily/quickly.

- Are you comfortable voting

anybody

? What I worry about is how notscience's town playstyle is transferable to his scumplay, so I don't know how good I'd be at spotting it.

- Yeah, most people here know each other well. I've seen both scum/towngames of at least half the players here and have been in past games with everyone except agi102 who is a newbie...and I'm probably the newest player of the bunch - aside from you and agi102.

[Bert]

So Kaze, why do you think you've gotten lynched a bit in past games?

And if not for wagon analysis, and say everyone had a clean slate in terms of voting, you would be voting TSO (priority 1) or Cabd (priority 2)?

[Bert]

OK, so I just skimmed the second half of the game I've been present for.

Notes: Cabd reading ffery as null is just weirding me out. I don't think ffery's that hard of a read... :/

And then he mentioned ffery being a "paranoid chick." Am I missing something here?

@notscience: in what way is goodmorning similar here to what you remember of 1402?

@goodmorning, you seriously need to come back and answer the questions posed to you throughout the past few pages. <3 If you need a recap of the questions, ask away (e.g. why you're voting TSO, what your cases are, your reads no everyone and why, the list goes on...oh and respond to Ffery's case/points regarding you)

[Bert]

Who the fuck wants to play like Majiffy?

Not me. I'll pass.

STOP POSTING CONSTANTLY AND I MIGHT JUST BE ABLE TO

KAY THEN. AT LEAST THIS ISN'T A SNOOZEFEST LIKE 1402 <3333333333333

That's what he means by paranoid. I don't take anything he does at face value.

Gotcha. If there's such a distinction between your town/scum games like you say there is, it is weird that he is reading you as null when he has already listed other reads. Maybe you take more effort to read, despite him knowing your play very well??

As per your 508, will elaborate later. It takes time when there are suddenly four more pages.

Oopsies, my bad. Think of it as making up for lost time.

Can't you? Let me remedy that in a bit then.

You better!!!

[Bert]

Spoiler:

@Bert: I'm townreading Cabd because of all these:

You. You're fuckifiknow but I suppose I'll have to sort you sooner or later. Probably later, I'm a lazy fucker right now

To futher explain the paranoia I get....
<snip>

People keep getting an inflated idea of what my scumgame looks like, le sigh.

Ill vote when I'm ready. I don't want a shithammer this game like varsoon did last newbie I subbed into.

BTW this is about as close to an innocent child as we're gonna get this game. Not lynching this thing EVER.

This is the part where I play scummy all day one, obvtown it up in twilight, and get shot at night one, right?

Light townread on cliche, agi looks like day one lynchfodder of choice.

OK, Sakura...I don't interpret those quotes as genuine like you do. thanks for sharing your perspective! Now why are you townreading TSO?

[Bert]

That makes sense.

@Ffery, what do you think of GM's responses to your post(s)?

[Bert]

Hey bert, why are you continuing to ask the same question of me when it has been asked and answered? You aren't expecting a different answer, are you? You keep pushing it to make me look bad and that's not okay bro.

If I did that, sorry. Today, I had too many things going on in my head after fully getting engaged in this game which is very rare

Too many things going on about who I think scum are, and lots of ramblings in my head, that's all. A night of sleep will help with everything I've skimmed today and pondered about...then your responses (and everyone else's) will start to sink in, as today (and to a lesser extent yesterday) is when I finally got into this game 100% and got in the flow, so to speak

I've been forgetting what questions I've been asking too.

[Bert]

Anyways, I gave this game 100% (literally) of my attention today, so...

sleep and then camping, so I'll be back a few hours before deadline. <3 And I'm not sure who I'll vote in the end...

fun times...

[Bert]

And Kaze's fake paranoia is hilariously bad.

Interesting that you think that. I can actually see why it might look that way from glancing at Kaze's ISO.

I recently did a meta dive on Kaze. His game has been evolving pretty quickly. His first game at MS was a scum game. All his games since then have been town. His tone has gotten lighter and less formal with every game. The stuff that has stayed the same about his town games is reasoned stances and observations. I should go back and look at some of those games, though. IIRC he's been mislynched 2-3 times. I didn't pay attention to why he was mislynched. Was more interested in looking for differences in tone and expressiveness by alignment.

Thoughts on Kaze this game? What is your read? I asked you what you think earlier, and you came up with this response...which doesn't help that much within the context of this game. I feel like I might have been easily fooled for a while yesterday when Kaze was interacting with me. TSO's observation actually reaffirms what was farther in the back of my mind yesterday.

Got a few hours, so umm....yeah I think I'm pleased with my GM vote and will not move it.

It's interesting that not much has changed since I started off yesterday with my reads:

Spoiler:

So you no longer think Cabd is scum?

Why do you think GM is scum? Is it for the same reasons I pointed out last week?

What do you actually think of me defending Cabd and TSO?

GM hasn't done anything I find townie, and her play seems rather passive tbh. Not really pushing anything new, not giving input that seems useful. She's just....there. You know what I mean?

Look, you're gonna have to work with me this game. I *think* you're town, with your knee-jerk reactions and paranoia and pseudo-meltdowns. My lynch just ain't happening, with everyone here except agi knowing my scumgame and towngame quite well, for the most part (Cabd, ffery, notscience in particular). I can play however Bert-like I want here and not have to be scared of being misunderstood. Heck, even TSO has been scum with me twice out of six scumgames.

And as for my GM vote, I decided hey, I'm gonna lead a wagon and just not feel like I came in and just sheeped a townread for the heck of it. Because that means I'm being easily manipulated, and I won't have that this game, at least not until I have a better read on everyone. Even notscience's style can be faked, so I'm going to look into everything that my limited skimming self can look into. But yes, notscience I *think* is town, but it's not quite as strong as my townread on you. And as I said, I'm in THREE games so expect this game to get lots of focus from me and I will town it up like never before.

If you want my thought process about Cabd, it's this: I woke up with it this morning. I was telling myself, "Bert, don't you think it's awfully convenient that Cabd is playing the exact same way he did in Mismatched, almost to a fault, as well as Perpetual MYLO?" As I said, I can't read Cabd worth anything, and Ffery hasn't pronounced a Cabd scumread. So far, it's conjecture along with two people yelling at me to vote Cabd. If Ffery really gets in a groove and says "Bert, Cabd is screaming scum at the top of his lungs," then I will sheep her if I feel she's town.

TOWNREADS:

Pretty Town <Ffery, Sakura, notscience>

seems town: <agi> - that playstyle will probably look the same regardless of alignment, but I have to say, coming into the game last night and seeing him/her post "here's a post full of nothing because I've got nothing" screams pretty town to me

confused about my read: <TSO, Cabd>

Leaning Scum: <GM, Kaze> Some gut, but also GM not doing anything townie-looking ANYWHERE....and that god-awful TSO switch that really made no sense in terms of rhythm and naturalness and in the flow of the game, it did not FEEL right at all. More like jumping onto a wagon for the sake of it. Kaze is a feeling thing, his/her posts coming in just felt a bit empty. I don't feel the Kaze town-PASSION I remember feeling in 219, which I interpreted as scum in that game. I feel more cautiousness, where the passion isn't being mimicked.

That is where I stand.

[Bert]

The waffly/hedgy stuff bugs me enough that I want to call Kaze leaning town, not strong town.

Gotcha. This is really useful to know.

the big difference to me between his scum game and his town games is that the first game's posts felt organized with tight, well defined stances. In other games, his stances and reactions to game events have been more disorganized and hence fluid.

Got it.

I want to factor in my impression of his predecessor. Gravija had a really strong newb vibe, and was reacting to stuff that irritated him without paying much attention to whether what irritated him was scummy.

Yeah, I felt the same way when I first caught up with the game. I remarked earlier that I read Gravija as town too. Kaze's opening nullified/questioned my townread on Gravija. This all does make me feel better about Kaze, though!!! <3

[Bert]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 1.5

With 9 alive it's 5 votes to lynch.

Voting for:

*Cabd - notscience [1]
*Fferyllt -
*Bert -
*Kazekirimaru - T S O [1]
*agi102 -
*Sakura Hana -
*T S O - Cabd, goodmorning, Kazekirimaru [3]
*notscience -
*goodmorning - Bert, Sakura Hana [2]

Not voting: agi102, Fferyllt [2]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-10-04 23:50:00)

[Bert]

You're really dancing and wavering around me, bert. And it feels icky.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bert

HAHAHAHA you can't read me worth a shit

it's not even funny, you and your little notebook

Nacho was right about you reading him wrong

and ME TOO IN THIS GAME

ARE YOU KIDDING ME

LOL!!!!

[Bert]

OK I just got back after 24 hours so I'm gonna catch up. But Cabd voting me is just HILARIOUS!

Go burn your notebook and put it in flames, because I've never been as transparent EVER. Maybe, MAYBE Popcorn, but yeah your ability to read me is pathetic.

So unless this is some joke where you're opposing me to get a reaction, you were all 'talk' when saying you can nail down my game with notes. LOL

[Bert]

Well your read on me is pathetic, because my play here is as natural as it gets, so if you continue with your vote on me today and tomorrow, then I'm seriously gonna have to think you're scum for such a pathetic read

sorry I juts went camping and I barely slept and I'm on adrenaline right now, so I'll read this game later.

But I came back and saw this and it's like WTF IN THE EWORLD IS CABD THINKING, Sakura already OPPOSED ME ENOUGH!

This is not funny.

NOT FUNNY!

[Bert]

MAN forget this

Vote: Cabd

You can just die already. Now I'm gonna go take a shower and come back after a nap and be calm before deadline. <3

Don't mind me right now! <3333333

[Bert]

Bert, what changed you from "not moving my vote from cabd" to "herpaderp I'm not voting cabd even though you have a case"?

BECAUSE YOUR META

IS A BUNDLE OF WIFOM

and is the reason you're not even being lynched

because of your Meta

META!

Like seriously, Cabd, you've been the one on jury duty this game. YOU have not interacted with me much. YOU simply have not been here. YOU pretend that we will buy your little doceydo of "hey let's waltz around and be busy all the time."

You know how Nacho caught you in MISMATCHED??

SLOW START

MAKING AN EASY READ OR WHAT SHOULD BE ONE - and MAKING IT INTO A LONG WALL SNOOZE FEST (MONONOKE READ)

OH LOOKIE HERE

it's a slow start here again

and you think you can just waltz in and say I'm scum. LOL I feel like Tammy in 527 having to deal with Majiffy (omg I could never do what she did and handle all that shit) so yeah I'm gonna go get some sleep now ughhhh

[Bert]

I'm dead serious this game as TOWN and more than ever before if you read me as scum for the rest of this game, you can never, EVER claim to be able to read me easily ever again. EVER. Thank you for listening. <3

/end rant

[Bert]

Oh and by barely slept I mean like 30 minutes, so if you will excuse me!!! I'm gonna contain my temper and tell myself that Cabd is either scum or has a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad ability to read me. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz This is seriously just a TERRIBLE read or a SCUM trying to attack me.

[Bert]

It's okay, I think I need some towngames where I go out swinging so some of that paranoia about me is dispelled. I won't be back before deadline.

But this is my towngame and I really don't care. Anyway I'm gonna exit now.

<3

OH also since I'm apparently a flash wagon:

Last Reads before I get lynched:

TOWN: <Ffery,, Sakura, notscience, agi102> NEVER LYNCH THEM

Confused/maybe scum but who the hell knows: <Cabd, GM> (that opposing me is something, I'm overreacting, but it might be town actually - I can't think clearly right now). And I'm not super confident in my GM read.

SCUM: Kaze, TSO - these are both gut right now, sorry I can't give anything more

Vote: TSO

-> This is for you, notscience.

Sorry I couldn't be more use to town, but I got INVESTED in this game and this is why I usually don't do this. Good luck town.

[Bert]

And I actually am going to spend the night elsewhere so I won't have access. =/

It's funny my last game with GM and notscience (1402), this is the way I went out on Day 1. Sorry again.

[Bert]

And Sakura we're even now, so no more of this "Bert can't read me, he read me wrong in a newbie back then." You can't either, so it goes both ways.

[Bert]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

Claim: VT

Now I seriously am sorry I am in a rush, but I just had a whole night awake of camping and seriously like

I am tired and stressed out about school

SOOOOOOOOOOO..

but seriously

SAKURA THINK ABOUT IT - I have no time to make long posts with any content like I did eariler this week. But you need to think.

REMEMBER TIT FOR TAT.

PLEASE play as if this Bert was in this game today, because during that stretch in may I was at Doctor's appointments all day long.

All day long. So seriously that Bert from Popcorn/Tit for Tat - it's still in there somewhere but only when I'm really legitimately tired and stressed. Like up until the past week, I haven't had that part awakened inside of me at all, but last Saturday I felt that way because I was busy helping out with the international festival and was up all night. but seriously this only happens when I'm super-tired-stressed, and then I Can't maintain my coposure.

And Sakura, it's called SHEEPING NS because I don't have time to look back at cases and GM wagon might not go through.

but whatever

Vote: GM

then

I didn't even look at if TSO claimed or not at lynch -1 or something earlier

ANYWAY You all can do whatever you want but seriously I came back to claim

because getting lynched withotu a claim

is just really pathetic, and there's a deadline here.

[Bert]

Bert...you just flailed like a motherfucker.

I have never seen such reaction before.

I don't know what to make of that.

Either you pretend this didn't happen, or actually MAKE SOMETHING of it and be decisive. "I don't know what to make of that" is super hedgy/indecisive and I DON'T LIKE THAT ABOUT IT

If you think it's fake, then you know where your vote goes. But please this indecision thing from you, that's the only thing that was plaguing me and making you a gut scumread.

COMMITTING to a wagon. THAT's what I want. OK goodbye. <3

And I'm sorry I'm freaking out but seriously, it's a blessing in disguise that I have to go for the rest of the day.

[Bert]

I have dinner access err...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29468

Sorry guys for earlier. In the this link (Mini 1465), I had a doc appointment in June that last few days of D1, and you can see my freak-out as town when I really WAS a wagon and about to die. Stuff from personal life got into frustration here. Sorry for reverting and disappointing y'all -->

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29868

^1402 Newbie: This game, I went out on 1402 so peacefully, and I regret not doing anything about it that day

And yeah, GM's claim and reaction *seem* town

What do you all want to do

Once I place my vote, it's not moving.

A few weeks ago, I got speedlynched in 24 hours at the D2 start without a chance to say anything. This was Open 522 which ended a week ago (link below) I got lynched for reasons I didn't understand, in like 48 hours following the start of D2.: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30923

I didn't even understand why I got lynched, but this ^ Open 522 was when I was feeling calm, so you see I just said "go ahead and hammer" and didn't really do anything to stop it. And...I got hammered. Was calm in 1402 and showed lots of apathy.

But seriously, earlier today was a lot of frustration from lack of sleep and some other lingering crap and I'm sorry I brought that into this thread.

/end rant

And yeah all the paranoia/frustration I directed at Cabd and Sakura, I meant all of it though, I just don't have the audacity to lash out like a jerk like that usually

[Bert]

EBWOP: But yeah I claimed extra early in 1465 too but it was way premature, so it is what it is. Catching up now that I'm awake...

[Bert]

And I still believe in Kaze/TSO as a possible team, since I'm stubborn. That's what I posted in my frustration-filled morning BS posts, and I stand by that.

GM, her reaction + claim COULD be faked as she is smart and experienced and I know she is capable of that. But yeah claiming a PR is also risky, but yeah that's a lot of WIFOM to think about.

[Bert]

@Cabd: I honestly have no confidence reading you, so I'll flip flop like a fish. Also, I haven't seen you as town yet. I'm glad you're not voting me anymore, but at this stage if you did I don't really care because I'm awake now and actually thinking clearly for once.

Kaze/TSO is because Kaze is acting really weird about the "wagon analysis" thing (I sound like a hypocrite but still..) There is something weird about how he/she seemed to be indecisive about bussing TSO. That's the gut feeling I got. And the "one solid town read on you, Bert, only you" was a really really weird feeling. Reminds me of Cephrir in 527 where I kept reading as scum, and then she/he reached out to me, and yeah I'm really icky feeling about stuff like that so it's what it is.

Cabd has felt kinda genuine in the past day ever since he did get engaged, but... I'm very paranoid about him because he prides himself on his town/scumgame so much so really I'm not confident at all. And Ffery, this is how I felt about you entering 1415 Newbie, so no wonder Cabd feels I'm dancing around him because you felt the same way in that game.

So if not GM, then I narrow it down to TSO/Kaze PoE. I don't expect my reads to be correct though, don't get me wrong.

[Bert]

As I mentioned, I'll be looking at you if he flips Town.

Why Ffery?

[Bert]

I'm so excited! This is the game where ffery finally mislynches me, isn't it?

This teasing doesn't make me feel good. Not the time nor place where it feels natural.

[Bert]

I'm no newbie, but I'm actually learning a lot from playing with you guys, especially Ffery outlining to look for scum/town motivations behind posts. I've never tried doing that or putting myself in a mindset like that. That was some good advice, I have to say. So yeah Newbie games are cool for learning for derps like me. <3

[Bert]

I ruined my play again this game and all the work I did D1 by falling into the reaction test trap again. I'm vulnerable to that still, when I'm not thinking clearly and too stressed out IRL. I'm really not used to people opposing me with BS just to get reactions from me either way. But I need to learn to control that better, especially when I'm not feeling well or headache-y or whatever BS excuse.

I'm actually mad at myself for coming onto MS when I'm tired/frustrated like this morning. Almost got me in big trouble. That's not the mindset to be coming in here and posting, and I shouldn't have ever been in Popcorn/Tit for Tat during that mindset I was in during May.

Checking VC now, brb.... have 30 more minutes

[Bert]

If TSO claims and is not counter claimed, we're lynching me, understood?

I don't want this paranoia shit sending me to a LYLO mislynch.

Please don't do this. The last sentence is what I've said as scum multiple times. "I'll be a liability in LYLO, please lynch me first" =[

"Oh, lynch me, don't send me to LYLO." Please don't make me more paranoid about you, and no this paranoia is not manafactured. It's real just like mine was about Ffery in 1415.

[Bert]

Vote: Cabd

Sorry, gut feeling. TSO smells bad, this is a gut feeling.

[Bert]

Last few posts, he said stuff that I've said as scum so many times towards the end of a day. That isn't right

[Bert]

Also nothing was stopping me from hammering earlier so yeah, suck it.

If TSO claims and is not counter claimed, we're lynching me, understood?

I don't want this paranoia shit sending me to a LYLO mislynch.

don't like, gut-wise.

UNVOTE:


Will have to vote from my phone, but i'll be around. I hate deadlines.

Oh, you hate deadlines. Lalalala that just rubs me the wrong way from you saying this

Post what you have now, I'm going to be gone from 6PM on. Do we even have a viable counterwagon we feel is more likely to hit scum?

Any other claim as scum is sub-optimal on day one in most cases. Especially this close to deadline. I don;t know how many other options we have, though.

I'd expect GM to claim a PR as scum here.

There's so much indecisiveness

[Bert]

Pedit: Bert your gut is shitty

as your ability to stay detached emotionally.

Thanks for rubbing it in. That's really kind. <3

[Bert]

Cabd why do you use alcohol as an excuse to post abrasively/derply all the time?

THIS. Exactly this. I attack the reads, and the posting, but him saying my "ability to stay detached is shitty" is just unwarranted.

Not everyone does that when drunk.

[Bert]

OK...but him calling people's inability to stop emotional attachment as shitty is still not cool. I take offense to that actually. It's something I would never say to Sakura, for example. That's just a low blow. We try to improve our game, and don't need stuff like that. Attack my gut as shitty, that's fine, my reading ability as shitty, that's cool too. But emotional ability - not cool, man.

so who do you want lynched then

[Bert]

That's the truth. So what if it sucks. You telling me I have too much indecisiveness is funny as fuck though.

Sorry, but I wasn't calling you out for "emotional" issues, so please watch what you say about that is all I'm saying. The game, everything else is fair game, but that's not okay.

[Bert]

Sorry Kaze.

Vote: TSO

[Bert]

You can.

IT's Sakura, Kaze, GM, me.

I counted and we had been at lynch -2 until I voted..

[Bert]

@780: Sorry I should have just let it go.

Err... we have like 40 minuets left, we should just hammer?

[Bert]

Doing a reset in the event I'm alive tomorrow.

I played terribly today for my standards, so I'm pretty ashamed. I'll be here tomorrow, and I hope you are too.

[Bert]

Good luck with the flip guys.

god I have been terrible today

And I KNOW I will be here tomorrow because I'm a VT and because I sucked today and somehow towntold with all that crap I posted today.

<3

Thanks for the hammer Cabd, no hard feelings <3

unless you're scum, to which YOURE GOING DOWN!

[Bert]

This is confusing...it does make me feel better that my GM paranoia meant nothing...but the VT kill is kinda confusing all the same, ya know? It doesn't make me feel as bad and wonder "what if" about yesterday letting GM go and going after TSO.

I still feel like I'm missing something, and obviously my reads sucked - unless Kaze is scum with Cabd - otherwise everything I have is off. Even agi102 I find myself second-guessing my reads.

[Bert]

Given the caliber of our player list this screams framejob.

Why? And is it bad for me to be speculating with you on this?

[Bert]

You think Scum know who the PRs are?

No, but GM was under a considerable amount of suspicion yesterday, and had claimed VT. She would have been lynchbait and have made me paranoid for the duration of the game. I was paranoid thinking about her during the night, for that matter.

Yeah, the argument of them framing Ffery makes sense if you are scum and want to make a framing kill.

Because let's be honest here. A newbie might think silly enough to see GM flip after saying she was gonna nail ffery, and then push to turbolynch ffery. If agi is scum, this is probably the case. I don't think agi is scum, but it's certainly a layer of wifom added to the scenario, and the kill doesn't fit my scum ffery model.

Does Ffery kill whoever she wants dead just because she absolutely doesn't want him/her alive? Agi-scum does make sense in this scenario, but man I feel I am delving into WIFOM territory that is detrimental to town so feel free to put a stop to it.

[Bert]

I can't see anyone making that mistake if they were following closely to the thread.

Maybe agi is scum after all?

I'm thinking agi-scum too, but I feel like an easily-manipulated idiot.

[Bert]

Although, agi's buddy can't have been inactive and would have told him/her about the claim...

[Bert]

.but the VT kill is kinda confusing all the same

???

You think Scum know who the PRs are?

Do you usually 'forget' about who claimed what? You were here for the last 12 hours of the day, when GM claimed.

[Bert]

I mean, there has to be incentive. Ffery makes sense on a surface level too, but it's just... convenient.

Like from a newb incentive perspective, I can see why you might want to frame someone by killing a claimed VT's top announced scumread in the case that TSO flips town.

But only one player in this game remaining is a newbie. The kill is such WIFOM that it could be interpreted to frame agi102 is what I'm saying.

[Bert]

I feel like this NK analysis is getting us nowhere, though. wifom, wifom, wifom.

Yup. Say the magic word?? <3333333333333

[Bert]

To be entire honest, this is the kind of kill i'd make if I was scum with ffery, or was scum in ffery's slot. But I play scum in a very unique manner so for ffery to be scum means she's lifting pages from my book. Which is technically possible after those morph scumgames.

Yeah, I thought of morph and me in Mismatched, where you asked me who I wanted dead, and who we absolutely didn't want alive in the game. Ffery-scum would absolutely not want GM alive. And since you thought your lifespan would be short, you could melt someone in molten chocolate, whoever we desired to murder!

You're going balls deep now.

That's a real stretch.

as I've been saying this is delving into WIFOM territory. I will stop now.

[Bert]

Speaking of Castle, which I just read back (I didn't get to read back much at the end of Day 1 as you all witnessed LOL), I'm sorry Ffery you had to read that game! Bad Cabd. BAD BOY!

You made her read that, you YOU YOU I'm gonna getcha

You're right, it was burlesquing, and it was AWFUL dirty, sickening play from me <3

[Bert]

Town (Bert, aji102, notsci)
Probtown (Sakura, GM)
Scum (Cabd, Kase)

Possibly subject to change based on TSO flip.

So, did this change? Are you gonna wait a while before you tell us why

If TSO flips town I dunno. Kase has been on his butt for much of his time in the game. Might give him town points for that. Cabd's hey how about nolynch was probably not going to happen given site meta about day 1 nolynch, so suggesting it so close to deadline makes me nervous.

Does Kaze get townpoints and why or why not?

[Bert]

v.v

ceaseless meta

self-scummetaing

wifom discussions

im losing interest

1) talk to us about the game

2) tell us what your thoughts are after the TSO flip.

A. You haven't told us what you think of your new reads after the TSO flip.

B. What has changed? Drown out our sounds with your brilliant words, will ye?

I challenge ye, challenge!!! I beseech you!

[Bert]

Bert, ffery said right before the end of day that it had changed with me no longer in the scum category.

K. THANKS

Oh, and

Vote: Kaze

Now, Ffery and Cabd please talk to me about Kaze pretty please with cherry on top? Before I go paranoia-central on him/her. lots of his/her posts have been (1) complaining about our self-meta/metaing overtendencies or (2) generally not doing much other than "trying" to appear town. Then there's the waffling that bothers me, indecisiveness in sticking a vote, the same kind I portrayed in Castle when Desperado-Mantis went head-to-head.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Plus, lots of shouting and yeah, just overreactions that don't feel genuine. The part in D1 about not having any solid townreads other than me, which is not very believable. Just to name a few, and the opening he/she had wasn't convincing. I will elaborate more tomorrow.

[Bert]

1) talk to us about the game

2) tell us what your thoughts are after the TSO flip.

A. You haven't told us what you think of your new reads after the TSO flip.

B. What has changed? Drown out our sounds with your brilliant words, will ye?

1. What about it?

2. There's likely at least one scum on his wagon. Not sure whom yet.

A. What new reads?

B. That's kinda apart of A. Isn't it?


@Cabd: Have your thoughts changed on Ffery in the last couple posts? You went from "this is a framejob" to "this is a kill we would have made as morph" so, yeah.

@Bert: Why are you appealing to Cabd and Ffery in particular?

1. Who do you think is scum? Post flip
2. Ok
A. Yes, corresponds to 1.

I'm appealing to Cabd and ffery because Im trying to relate to their thought processes, and because I know what they're capable of as a team.

Notscience probably won't talk other than to tell me who to vote for. Sakura too, plus I constantly readher wrong. You I don't trust. Agi doesn't seem caught up or contributing.

[Bert]

Also

@Bert:
- What is the scum motivation behind me complaining about you people and your love of meta?
- What is the scum motivation behind waffling on votes? Also, do you recall why? Was my worry unfounded back then to you?

On phone so posting in fragments here.

1. It doesn't add to the game. It's empty whining, much like my aTe spill when I wasn't feeling well irl.
2. Keeps ur options open. Yes if you look back at day 1's end and prior, I never really townread you. I even stated my read on you still seemed iffy. You are experienced and know how wifomy wagon analysis can get, and then today you come out telling us how wifomy NKA is

[Bert]

Town (Bert, aji102, notsci)
Probtown (Sakura, GM)
Scum (Cabd, Kase)

Possibly subject to change based on TSO flip.

So, did this change? Are you gonna wait a while before you tell us why

If TSO flips town I dunno. Kase has been on his butt for much of his time in the game. Might give him town points for that. Cabd's hey how about nolynch was probably not going to happen given site meta about day 1 nolynch, so suggesting it so close to deadline makes me nervous.

Does Kaze get townpoints and why or why not?

I'm kinda stunned atm. Not just by this game and the GM NK.

At the time I was thinking that Kaze would get townpoints with a TSO townflip because it seemed to me like he didn't have a second choice lined up. Scum usually do IME.

I can't relate to that but I guess the "usually" part of your statement makes it a weird generalization, which makes me wonder how not having a second choice would have you giving Kaze arbitrary town points...

[Bert]

Why does it bug you

[Bert]

Sakura, GM explicitly told us at the end of D1 to look at ffery next if TSO were to flip town

[Bert]

What do you think of ns?

[Bert]

I just woke up too. I mentioned him only in #833

[Bert]

[Bert]

wrong thread ugh

[Bert]

Cool. If you want to ask me questions about anything today, it will make me get off the couch and skim particular things. <3

[Bert]

I don't have the power to do more than skim a page or two at any given time, so I haven't mustered up the effort to look back at all

I'll look back at ISO's now.

[Bert]

@Sakura:

Here’s a start: skimmed isos.

Cabd – don’t like, wouldn't mind seeing him die

Notscience – town but not confident, style is transferable to both alignments

Kaze – scum (gut) - you know how often it drives me in the wrong direction

Sakura – don’t know anymore, no confidence in this read, feel the same as I did about you in 1481 - remember when I just let other people read you and see

Ffery – super super town

Agi102 – newbtown (*probably*) but newb passes………YOU know how I feel about newb passes. It cannot be trusted, right? Will remain red herring for the rest of the game, most likely. Hooray paranoia, JOY!

To be honest, I’m probably gonna cause swing today and just sheep Ffery because she’s my only 100% town solid rock solid town read. Everyone else is rather *meh*

[Bert]

What are your updated reads after both flips?

What are yours? You're gonna not be happy, but part of me is tempted to vote you because Goodmorning called you scum. If I had lived to D3 in Masons and Monks, I likely would have been tempted to vote you after Wisdom's death because Wisdom tunneled you so much and called you scum, as did Mara. It is what it is, though.

[Bert]

Cabd - This guy is innocent until proven guilty.

ffery - Super Town

notscience - Gut Scum read, but my head tells me that he's town.

Bert - The opposite of notscience, Gut Town read, but my head tells me that he's scum.

agi - Don't know

Kaze - Don't know.

And I didn't need to skim ISOs for that.

1. So you have no gut read on Cabd or head read?? Just curious why you go "don't know" on Kaze/agi and then go "innocent until proven guilty" on Cabd. Is there a reason for this? I must have missed it, so do refresh my memory

2. What is off about notscience's play such that he is gut scum?

[Bert]

I was writing a response to this, but I think I rather keep scum guessing for at least 1 more game day.

What's the motivation behind being evasive about evaluating Cabd??

If you're town, you have no idea whether you'll be alive tomorrow, so what's the point in "hiding what you're thinking" until "next game day?"

Also, you missed the first part of #860.

[Bert]

Your response is weird...if you have something to say and you're already ALMOST implying what you're saying, just make it clear because I don't get why ANYTHING could be affecting your read on Cabd after you say he's "innocent until proven guilty." ALL of us are innocent until proven guilty!!!!

Kaze - Don't know

Why is Kaze completely "IDK"? No impression either way is weird, considering how aggressive she is

I asked you what your GUT read is on Cabd, and what your HEAD is telling you, since you mentioned both a gut + head read on both notscience and myself.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Oh, and your GUT and HEAD reads were scum, then town, or vice versa, on both notscience and myself. That's what I'm asking about Cabd.

[Bert]

There's no way we can prove he's guilty. Emphasis on "prove." What does your definition of "proven guilty" here mean. Until he's lynched and flips scum, he's innocent???

[Bert]

Holy shit if kaze and Bert fish any harder then the fish are gonna go extinct.

AWWW I would like to eat some fish, cuz you know seafood is good for ya

so umm moral of the story is we should stop fishing??

LOVE, BERT

<3

[Bert]

@Bert - Why do you keep calling me a she? ._. Also, if you yourself have naught but a gut scum read on me, why are you pressing Sakura for having a null on me?

Sakura's read ain't null, it's "don't know," which is NOT null <33333

And DANG I keep getting gender wrong. I thought I got it wrong yesterday by calling you HE by accident, and now I just remembered it was Shadoweh in a recently completed game where that happened.

GRRRRRRRRRRR RAWR GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR <333

[Bert]

How is null =/= don't know?

My bad, didn't realize they're the same thing virtually. bah humbug!



YEAH YEAH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

His parents give him love and affection.........

keep him strong moving in the right direction
Living just enough..

JUST enough... for the CITAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY <3333333333

[Bert]

I started working on a case for notsci-scum yesterday. I talked myself out of it.

Why did you talk yourself out of it? Do you mind telling us (generally) what the case consisted of?

[Bert]

My girlfriend plays mafia and was in that game with bert.

Didn't you follow Mini 1489 too, which had Nacho/Tammy/Empire/me/Mara? You follow a lot of games...lol

Cuz that's probably a good measure of my town game, and I wasn't obvtown in that game either

[Bert]

My girlfriend plays mafia and was in that game with bert.

I wish Lynx were here to give input, she was good...that's why she died N1

[Bert]

I forgot that I switched to post links instead of quote stripes. NotSci usually doesn't quote what he's replying to, and I found that quote stripes weren't showing his trajectory very well.

So....before I go read your analysis of notscience, do you think he's scum, or leaning scum?

Is there even such a thing you'd consider NOT a shitty defense coming from me?

* crickets *

Didn't think so.

Why does Ffery always consider your defenses shitty?

[Bert]

It's a gut-based worry. Objectively his posts don't scream scum. But, I know he'll tunnel the crap out of players as scum as well as town.

Yeah, I agree. It's very much transferable to either alignment, so he's hard to read in that regard.

Hmm...I think I'm gonna grab some popcorn and watch this scumbag squirm.

Vote: notscience

Die.

[Bert]

EBWOP: @ffery, your 775 link is messed up.

@notscience: what say you to ffery's case?

[Bert]

Doesn't matter what Kaze thinks about meta. <3 Just do your own thing!

[Bert]

We are in super super trouble if Ffery has us all fooled and is scum with Cabd. (now that's some paranoia!!!)

So Cabd, what do you think of Ffery on D2? I know she is probably able to fool me as scum...

[Bert]

Hmm i'm more interested in townhunting among the remaining 4 to be honest. We got a townbloc of {Me, Cabd, ffery} if we find 1 more is auto-win (If we mislynch, scum hits one of the 4, there's still 3 conftown for a lylo)

No one's conftown?

I'm not close to as confident as you are in Cabd-town. Ffery is pretty spot on in this game, but that's not conftown by any means.

[Bert]

And I also laughed when Sakura put herself in the townbloc.

[Bert]

Fwiw ffery is probably town because she easily could have led bert on a crusade against me D1 in the end there and it would have gone through. Her play today however has to ignore that since she figured out ~things~ and couldn't push me if she wanted to as scum.

This is true, I would have blindly sheeped her onto you in a heartbeat.

Why? She definitely belongs there.

Why does she belong there??

[Bert]

That's what you think.

no one's conftown in this game, period. That is the truth. Unless there's a confirmed cop that got an innocent on you, you aren't conftown.

[Bert]

GODFUCKINGDAMMIT NS ARE YOU TRYING TO BE STUPID NOW?

Like... I refuse to believe you're this damn ignorant of what's going on.

Maybe it's all fake?

Oh crap, I just realized I mixed this game up with another. NO. This is the game where Sakura breadcrumbed a PR

My bad.

[Bert]

I woke up this morning and literally thought about that all night

Like I thought of all the Law and Order shows, and how people are "innocent until proven guilty"

I apologize.

[Bert]

do tell, what IS going on then?

Pedit

WHAT THE FUCK

You know how I'm incapable of reading to any depth whatsoever

so like, yesterday, Sakura kept telling me Cabd is innocent until proven guilty, and then she kept saying "I can't explain till tomorrow, or else I give scum too much info" or whatever

and yeah... but I seriously forgot about that until Sakura started putting herself in her own townbloc

yeah, there's no scum motivation to do that in a matrix

[Bert]

Fuck. Bert why would you out this.

Fine.

I'm cop, inno on sakura, she noticed the crumbs and tried to flip the claims around so she'd get nightkilled tonight instead.

You shouldn't have done this. You know how bad I am at noticing that, right? You read 1482, where I was oblivious to anything. I didn't notice NATIRASHA scream I'm Cop for crying out loud <33333

[Bert]

Like, I honestly thought she/he was a neighborizer after Day 1. I'm that bad. And yeah, no motivation here for Cabd to lie.

That does save me from my Cabd paranoia and Sakura paranoia.

[Bert]

WHY WOULD A COP OFFER THAT SHIT

Relax, there's no reason for them to lie about this.

[Bert]

Yeah, isn't Ffery good at noticing crumbs? Hmm... and you Sakura crumbed yesterday? or Cabd yesterday? I'm confused

Yeah, Ffery doesn't make sense as scum though, townread notwithstanding

notscience/agi would make sense, if notscience really is that ignorant about what's going on in this game. but that careless to not realize GM is a VT? Weird.

[Bert]

notscience and Kaze are both burlesquing (new word that Ffery used about my game in Castle), so way more noise than substance

P-edit: you just noticed? lol

[Bert]

Kaze's more genuine (superficially) than notscience who has been phony. It's like he's trying hard to imitate what he does as town but it's a bit overdone and too noisy, plus he's appearing even more ignorant than usual in his arguments. Sorry if this is too harsh, but that's exactly my sentiment at this time.

[Bert]

Why is it that I don't feel that vibe of town passion as strongly in this game???

Why Kaze?? and who do you think 2nd scum is then?

[Bert]

EBWOP: passion from you as strongly*

[Bert]

But Cabd...

notscience's PM of "because my role PM said so" doesn't satisfy me??? I want MOAR

Oh, sorry about the tossup. I didn't notice that. As you can see, I don't read back very well lol

[Bert]

BTW if this is genuine bert just townslipped the fuck out of the thread.

That was a continuation of my previous post about how I read Natirasha was a neighborizer D1 in 1482...

[Bert]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

all my Cabd paranoia was unfounded this game and he's town...

=/

=/

=/

and the busy/jury duty thing isn't alignment indicative or super lurking excuse

DANG I am a fool

WHAT

UGHHHHHH

And D1 y'all voting me caught me off guard on a bad weekend, I apologize lol sometimes I am narcissistic and think I've been so obvtown that no one should be reading me as scum in my own faraway little perfect world

[Bert]

I've read a few mafia games.

I've only ever seen notsci before.

weird that this is agi's opening post...

[Bert]

Actually, Kaze/agi doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Now I need to try to put into words why that is...which will take a while lol

(1) there's PoE... Sakura what do you think of Agi and the newb pass??
(2) I doubt anyone else would have cooperated and been there throughout the night and killed GM. GM of all people. Maybe I'm just naive that I think that no one else would approve of a GM kill on N1, GM the claimed VT. Lol.


It's pretty telling that of my four non-town reads on D1, 2 flipped town already and 1 is a claimed cop. This is why people don't expect much from me - and I tend to agree with why they shouldn't expect anything! <3

Yeah, yeah Bert this post is bad and you should feel bad. I know...

[Bert]

When I thought of you and newb passes, I thought of Gaiden

[Bert]

Wow congratulations I'm not smart enough to keep up with all these gambits, so now I'm genuinely confused

AHAHAHAHA