Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[funkybike1]

It's better for someone else to get in on the fun as well.
VOTE: Kazekirimaru

[funkybike1]

Are you insinuating there is something wrong with RVS wagons?

No, I am not. I am generally in support of them. I'm just not going to force the issue and put someone at L-2 twenty minutes into Day 1, before they've even had a chance to post.

[funkybike1]

Part of it is my background as a player, where I was the victim of that kind of nonsense many times. I just want to give everyone a chance to post, after that, the game is on. Plus this is a Role Madness game, where a quicklynch might actually be worth it for scum.

[funkybike1]

All the better, if you ask me. Coming on to find you're wagoned before you've even posted would make for such lovely interactions.

My vote is srs bsnz, by the way. Get voted at.

Those "lovely" interactions would just delay the meaningful discussion. And yes, an OMGUS vote during RVS is clearly serious business.

UNVOTE: Kazekirimaru
VOTE: Mhork

L-1

.

[funkybike1]

I apologize, but RVS wagons are really good.

[funkybike1]

For what it's worth; I don't like you. Another thing I don't get is how you don't want to put someone to L-2, but are okay with putting someone at L-1. Noted that you clearly back tracked after someone called you out. This all makes me twitch. I can't wait for others to comment in regards to it. Now Funky, you and I are going to have an interesting conversation in a bit. Everyone should consider voting Funky for his back pedal. <3

VOTE: funky

I'm also sad that Peng didn't include pictures in her role PM's ):

A valid criticism. (Well, except for not liking me, of course.) But is it at all strange for someone to change his views - and his vote - when criticized for a previous vote? I explained my reasons for not immediately voting Grimgroove, and then I followed up by saying why I didn't. I was expecting a reaction for the Mhork vote, and I got one.

For what it's worth, I believe, from what few posts I've seen, that you are likely town. Scum probably would have not attacked me as overtly, if my prior experience means anything.

(Yes, I know this makes me a bit of a hypocrite. And yes, I am "backpedaling" again, if that's what you think.)

UNVOTE: Mhork

[funkybike1]

Sorry, I probably should have been more clear. What I dislike is putting someone under pressure before they can post. I'm fine with normal RVS.

[funkybike1]

Yes I did, though that should hardly be an issue here unless the scum have no will to live.

[funkybike1]

The L-1 discussion feels like a case of Morton's Fork to me.

Either he's scum for pointing it out because scum would be sure to do that as to not attract suspicion,

or

He'd still be scum if he didn't point it out because lolderphammers

Either way I find it null and WIFOM.

VOTE: shos

[funkybike1]

"A Morton's Fork is a specious piece of reasoning in which contradictory arguments lead to the same (unpleasant) conclusion." (from Wikipedia)

Basically, pointing out the L-1 is scummy and not pointing it out is scummy, ergo anyone who makes a L-1 vote is scummy. See the flaws in that argument?

[funkybike1]

@funky: Do you agree that my "Morton's Fork" argument is valid? It appears you do in your 64. If so, why is your vote still on shos?

Yes, I do agree with the argument itself being null, though his other posts hardly do anything to defend him. My vote is on him because I haven't had a reason to move it, and I still think he's a bit scummy.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

I have a slight scumread on shos, though it's nothing but a gut feeling at this point. We're less than 48 hours in though so it's hard to tell for anyone.

[funkybike1]

Just got time for a first quick read-through.
Initial discussion about L-1 on page 1 and anything related to it didn't seem very interesting to me.
Mhork's post 30 I disliked, mainly because of the part where he says the odds are that funkybike is probably town but it's definitely worth pushing. I don't see how that works, first of all letting him know you actually think he's town let's him know your push on him is not something you truly believe in and thus should not concern him. Secondly it shows you're following an argument through voting you don't follow through reasoning. Why do such a thing?

Not sure I got time for a full-blown catch-up post, but I'm already quite certain Maemuki is scum. All of her posts are fluff and show tactical detachment from content.

elleheathen knows a lot about Les Miserables. I don't know a thing so most of her initial posts read like mumbojumbo to me. I do get strong townvibes from the rest of her ISO, especially her latest three posts.

I'll have to get into shos-case later, butI don't like this bit in post 90:

"If i am lynched

before or after I claim

, lynch my voters."

That distinction is not only irrelevant for his intended result ("lynch his voters"), it's also nonsense. It implies that he's got a strong role on the one hand, by implying the claim in itself will be pivotal enough to warrant such a distinction, yet on the other hand implies a weak role since some people could still be moved to vote him and lynch him despite his claim. It doesn't seem to add up.

More later, but sadly not today.

I do agree with most of what you said. At post 30 we were still in RVS so Mhork's post isn't as bad as it seems. I'm not 100% sold on Mae scum yet, though your arguments seem fair. As for shos: #90, followed by #93, leaves me convinced he is probably scum.

Ohai gg you live me now don't you ;p

Never a good way to start a post.

And, of course, "lynch my voters before or after my claim" + "I'll be back in 3 hours"? Just giving him time to think over things.

[funkybike1]

Er, what? You haven't said a thing about me other than your "srs bsnz" vote and the Morton's Fork thing. Could you elaborate?

[funkybike1]

-hand raise-


We can talk about theory and such all day, but in the end we must reach a conclusion. And right now my conclusion is Shos/Maemuki. Shos has made lengthy but useless posts, and a day of discussion was wasted on the L-1 thing. He hasn't convinced me he's town yet, so I'm still voting him.

And Maemuki, you are a textbook example of active lurking. I won't waste time repeating what others have said. I agree with their arguments.

[funkybike1]

The funny thing about both funky and shos is that they seem to excell in one thing: point at each other. The thing they fail to do is stand up for themselves. Maybe it's them being the two competing wagons for now, but it doesn't make it easier. One thing I feel confident in saying: they're not scum together. I deeply believe that, regardless of how scum they may be in their own right.

funky's behavior at the start of the game was very strange. It seemed extremely nervous. There was a whole lot of backpedalling going on, and like elleheathen already stated in a response to his rethorical question from 28: it IS weird. Also in his case there's some flawin his reasoning as well: while he first claims to be wary of derphammers, in 33 this suddenly turns into a fear of derphammering (I guess he means quickhammering) scum. Some small inconsistency there that I don't like. After this debacle I have the feeling funky slipped away from everyone's attention, mostly thanks to shos.

Him using Kaze's logic to vote shos, while Kaze himself sees it as a reason not to vote shos, is something I'd like to see comments on by both parties involved.

What I forgot to add here is the rest of 28, where he townreads Malakittens because of a reaction that is null (something shos will be called out for later as well for another action). It feels contrived; he puts Mhork at L-1 to get reactions, gets 1 reaction from Mala, reads her as town, and considers the reaction test a success. Feels rushed. This is where I got the vibe of funky being very very nervous about something.

So many people to keep an eye on in this game.

You are right in that I appeared nervous, looking back on myself. And yes, I have been focusing on shos, due to my belief that he is scum and my other scumread Maemuki having no content whatsoever to point out. Initially, it was a pressure vote, with the Morton's Fork thing just piling on. I never expressed a fear of derphammering or quickhammering at all; I just said it won't happen if the scum are smart. My reaction test may have been a bit poorly done, but I did get what I wanted, which was a (IMO) townish post from Malakittens, and you were right to regard that as suspicious - I certainly would have looked at it again.

PEDIT: Seriously shos? #90 is a softclaim of a strong role. "Before or after I claim?" No townie or weaker role would say that. It's about the same as asking "if I'm a cop, should I claim it." Nobody is rolefishing here. Also, don't bring "you just played me as scum" into this. It only makes you look scummier.

And the timestamp thing is null. Too easy for scum to do.

[funkybike1]

@Mod: You can still copy the vote count you know

[funkybike1]

Mhork: shos's so called "claim" was in #90. The "if I am lynched before or after I claim" thing.

Mastin: I'm especially interested in why you see bv as scum. This is why replacements can be a game changer - you might be on to something.

shos: You're (finally) creeping more toward town in my book. I will note the following line though.

Scum are funky and maemuki (maemuki less).
Town are gg - strong, and elle. NO solved reader.nextInt on mhiek, DONT even remember the names of other lol. That means people need to post more.

I agree with your last sentence. (Also, the mythical nextInt appears again!)

Pedit: Mastin, you are right about being arrogant. Trusting your gut isn't always wrong though.

[funkybike1]

My opinion seems not to be shared, so this is long overdue.

UNVOTE: shos

I would vote Mae if not L-1. More coming after I'm done with classes for the day.

[funkybike1]

Okay, maybe I should have phrased that as "you guys are not lynching shos today, and he looks a bit more townish now." If you want to correct me on the first half of that, you're perfectly welcome to do so.

As for Mae, here is every single one of her posts.

VOTE: bv310 because fellow '09.

RVS, not much to say about this one.

They never even 'Oooh'ed or 'Ahhh'ed.

It's not better than an opera (yet), though.

Fluff.

My collection of Les Miseràbles cast albums is potencially embarrasing. Seriously, I'm missing very few of them.

Also, shos, it benefits scum in a way (less townies) but it also leaves them at a disadvantage (because every other townie is now suspicious of them). So there's that.

First half, fluff; second half, explaining why quickhammering is a bad idea.

So, Mhork, won't you even give us a teeny tiny bit of your reasoning?

Your vote, maybe?

Referring to Mhork's vote on shos. He had given reasoning - shos claiming a townread on me for nothing but the L-1 vote - but it was buried in theory discussion.

Yet you only voted after funky did. I don't think that makes much sense, but w/e. (b'-')b

I have a null read on this one. At least it's not fluff.

(quoted Mhork's #74)

Mhork, I think your vote on Shos was very strange - it felt like sheeping while not completely understanding why. At least funky had the decency to quote what he thought was scummy. I said that already, but you conviniently didn't catch that.

I'm pretty sure Mhork caught that, and he stated why he thought shos was scummy.

You mean when you said this? Where did you say it felt like sheeping? The part where you pointed out I voted after funky did? That just looks like a random observation.

And are you saying I didn't point out why I thought shos looked scummy?

You only voted after funky did. Which is the definition of sheeping. Are you following?

Also, yes.

Just because you vote after someone doesn't mean you're sheeping. Especially when you have a valid reason to vote for them, and you explain it.

UNVOTE: bv (that was my RVS vote, btw, I think shos asked).
So, apparently, we already have walls of text on page 6. (b'-')b And the case on me is that I have done nothing all game? Mmmm. Let's think.

1) Most of my posts were fluff. We agree on this one.
2) Most of my posts were during the RVS period.
3) The RVS isn't very known for it's content.

Now, I don't know about you guys, but some people (I'm looking at you, shos, funky, since you're the other people who are under the most suspicion) are keeping me as a second backup lynch while not actually voting me. (If you're going to accuse me of active lurking, at least make an effort and try to check my posting history. I haven't really posted on the site ever since.) Also, I disagree almost 100% with Grimgroove's reads. I think that Ellie and Mhork sound... close, so to speak. I don't know if they've played a lot, or if this is just coincidence, but their interactions sound off.

...was it not obvious when I said he was bullshitting reasoning for thinking that funky was town on that one post?

And you only thought of that after funky posted? I find that unlikely. I'm not sure if you didn't understand my question (fine, I didn't use question marks, but the idea was there) or if you didn't want to understand.

This is moving into straight-up tunnel vision territory. Also, it's not your number of posts, it's the content of them that matters.



So let's recap. She has nine posts. Two which are nothing but fluff,

SIX

asking Mhork about his vote on shos, and the last one is her RVS vote (which she only just took back.) If that's not the definition of lurking, I don't know what is.

Here you have it. Mae, give me one good reason to not just hammer you and get it over with.

[funkybike1]

Yeah, I seriously doubt name claiming would break this one.

[funkybike1]

@Mod: V/LA until Tuesday night.

Acknowledged

[funkybike1]

Funky is vla. I say we quickly get a fakeclaim from him and lynch ahoy

Excuse me? I don't like the sound of that.

And my username isn't funkytown because that's too obvious. More from me coming tonight once I'm back home.

[funkybike1]

I know how that feels. We have 3 days to deadline. I agree with Mhork on the lack of any Mae town case. This may be due to inactivity though I have to say I did get a slight scum vibe when I looked at her (nearly nonexistent) iso. My other guesses at the moment are shos and Malakittens, but those are more guesses than anything.

[funkybike1]

funky, any reaction to any one of my dozen posts that says why you're scum?

You're in tunnel vision mode, and you have been for most of the game. Arguments like the ones you're making can be made against anyone (who posts) in this game. Maybe if you looked at other people you would realize how wrong you are. You're just staying on me since you don't want to look like an idiot, thinking you have 100% scum without looking for any town in me at all. You're not scumhunting. You're just going with the flow.

VOTE: Maemuki

L-1

, yeah, this seriously makes me look town, we can probably stop doing this, right?

[funkybike1]

well then,

Ghostlin

, you should claim in the first of your posts. fully.

this is an intent to hammer.

Didn't you attack me for doing the same thing? And you don't really need the huge text,

shos

.

Not unvoting though. And if you can come up with a reason my arguments are useless, I'll listen. Until then, you can stay in la-la land with your scumbuddy.

If anyone hammers before Ghostlin can post, they will be the next lynch.

[funkybike1]

I don't see the point in unvoting just because someone claimed Bodyguard, especially in a role madness game. This may be a special case because of the replacement, so...

UNVOTE: Ghostlin
VOTE: Mhork

Since this will drag on until I claim, I'll do so.

I'm the Bishop, Town Tracker.

[funkybike1]

It's not an OMGUS, it's a legitimate belief that you're scum. By the way, care to comment on anything else?