Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[Lord Mhork]

I don't really wanna be on my own on a wagon by myself... :c

VOTE: Grimgroove

Aint it a laugh? Ain't it a treat? Helping to lynch folk among the elite?

[Lord Mhork]

<3 you elle

[Lord Mhork]

Bv, have we played together before?

Maemuki, nothing to say? Really?

[Lord Mhork]

Why not? What idiot would try to hammer on the first page?

[Lord Mhork]

But wagons are really good. Especially RVS wagons.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh wow

VOTE: funkybike1

Pointing out that you're backpedaling doesn't make it any less sketch. You put me at L-1 on page one; you don't just drop it when someone points out what you did. In addition the fact you you seem to not have noticed the logical disconnect between your not liking putting someone at L-2 in the first page and putting me there with 5 posts of that. You don't even provide real rationale for jumping on me, implying that you're just bullshitting opinions.

Odds are you're probably town because very few scum are that dense, but it's definitely something worth pushing.

What exactly is your opinion of early game wagons?

[Lord Mhork]

But you said you experienced early game derphammer stupidness didn't you?

[Lord Mhork]

Are you saying that I'm scum? I don't follow your thought there.

PEDIT:
Shos, elaborate please.

[Lord Mhork]

Wine and applesauce, elle dear.

*knuckle touch*

[Lord Mhork]

...that's all you got?

[Lord Mhork]

I was expecting better rationale. You can hardly be that confident on the fact that he's town by him pointing out L-1. Post people would that out, town or scum. You just seem really, really confidant here.

Are you scum, Shos?

[Lord Mhork]

If you're asking me, I think it's almost totally null on all levels.

[Lord Mhork]

No. I was actually listening to Les Mis and Beggers at the Feast was playing and then I figured I could do lyrics too.

I enjoy Les Mis. A lot. 0.0

[Lord Mhork]

What's Morton's fork?

VOTE: shos

Don't worry, funky. I haven't forgotten you.

[Lord Mhork]

On which person?

[Lord Mhork]

...was it not obvious when I said he was bullshitting reasoning for thinking that funky was town on that one post?

[Lord Mhork]

I don't think you're provijg you're town nearly as much as you think you are.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh right I remember that.

Shos, who do you think are scum?

[Lord Mhork]

How so?

[Lord Mhork]

I don't think it's really antitown. It's more snark and I think he was trying to be funny with it.

I agree he's still scummy, but that post in itself isn't lynchworthy.

Shos, what are your reads on everyone as of now?

[Lord Mhork]

Right.... Can you think really, really hard about that town read 'cause those are kinda important too.

[Lord Mhork]

For what it's worth, I'm null/town on Malakittens for that early funky attack, nullish/sorta town on elle for general feel, but I don't trust that, and null/townish on Kazekirasomethingorother but that's a really weak guttish thing based on his whole 'Morton's Fork' discussion and general attacks on funky. I'm actually feeling null/scum on Maemuki because fluffity fluff fluff and the fact that she didn't attack my following funky onto shos and scum on funky (obviously).

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

I really want to lean town on bv but I just can't due to lack of evidence and all that. Please post more so I can think you're town, bv! And of course I'm solid null on Grimgroove and I think he should be prodded with a big heavy stick. Maybe a truncheon.

Malakitty, I'm interested in this back and forth you were talking about in 27 with funky as soon as your V/LA ends.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet. Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

Kazikiramira: Whatcha thinking, pal? You look fairly townie thus far.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

Maemuki, you're fluffing really hard. Granted you only have 6 posts, but most of them don't really contribute anything? Why didn't you pursue the following funky thing? What are your thoughts?

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

[Lord Mhork]

Can I call you Kazemandu? Kazemandius?

Good point on shos too. I was considering that.

[Lord Mhork]

I disagree. These first 48 hours are a great time to get first gut impressions which can very often be correct. Where's you gut feeling come from?

[Lord Mhork]

Yet you only voted after funky did. I don't think that makes much sense, but w/e. (b'-')b

You mean when you said this? Where did you say it felt like sheeping? The part where you pointed out I voted after funky did? That just looks like a random observation.

And are you saying I didn't point out why I thought shos looked scummy?

[Lord Mhork]

Everything. 0.0

I dunno. You said you wanted a discussion with funky. That's a good place to start, right?

[Lord Mhork]

What does that even mean?

[Lord Mhork]

Who's the scum on your wagon if it's a scum lead wagon?

[Lord Mhork]

Nifty. My breath is bated

[Lord Mhork]

Oh yay Grim is prolly town woohoo!

Scum is somewhere in Mae/Krazy/Shos. GG.

[Lord Mhork]

You're wrong. Seeping is blindly following someone's reads. I had reasoning.

And you're wrong again. I most definitely expressed issue with Shos before.

[@bv: russel Crowe can go die in a hole. Other than that, it was alright.]

What do you mean by good information from his flip?

PEDIT:
Did you just call me scum, Shos?

[Lord Mhork]

Right under that I see 'I said who the scum where. One is you.' It was poorly formatted so I wasn't sure to what you were referring.

[Lord Mhork]

Yes it was.

[Lord Mhork]

@Mod: your italics broke

Fixed, thanks!

[Lord Mhork]

I'm still interested in seeing Mae do something.

[Lord Mhork]

Well that sucks.

[Lord Mhork]

...that's all you got?

I was expecting better rationale. You can hardly be that confident on the fact that he's town by him pointing out L-1. Post people would that out, town or scum. You just seem really, really confidant here.

Are you scum, Shos?

So these votes happened.

The L-1 discussion feels like a case of Morton's Fork to me.

Either he's scum for pointing it out because scum would be sure to do that as to not attract suspicion,

or

He'd still be scum if he didn't point it out because lolderphammers

Either way I find it null and WIFOM.

VOTE: shos

And then this one.

And then I voted. How did my rationalization occur after funky's vote? You're just making things up, Mae.

[Lord Mhork]

That's how I feel, Elle.

I know I must be, like, completely wrong somewhere along this.

[Lord Mhork]

mastin? Woah. Hiya, pal. You're the one that does massive walls, right?

[Lord Mhork]

Malakittens, why are you not getting into a fight with funky. You promised me a fight.

[Lord Mhork]

Can you define why shos is super town? What about Mae? As in reasons other than gut.

[Lord Mhork]

Ok but how do you reconcile

gut

with people giving reasons for her being scum.

Point ceded on how shos can have a townish looking thought process. To what claim were you referring though? I feel like I missed something.

[Lord Mhork]

Uh could you point it out? I would go look but I'm about to step out for my Psych class.

Also my quote for today: "Pride cometh before the fall." Please either disprove the scum cases or provide rationale on your Mae town read.

PEDIT:
That? Isn't this game openly advertised as Role Madness? That's the one where everyone has a Power Role no matter how useless, right?

[Lord Mhork]

Uh could you point it out? I would go look but I'm about to step out for my Psych class.

Also my quote for today: "Pride cometh before the fall." Please either disprove the scum cases or provide rationale on your Mae town read.

PEDIT:
That? Isn't this game openly advertised as Role Madness? That's the one where everyone has a Power Role no matter how useless, right?

[Lord Mhork]

Then what are your thoughts thus far? Who do you think is scum? I mean other than obv scum funky.

PEDIT:
Well yeah I feel like that sort of denseness is more likely to come from town than scum, but that most certainly doesn't discount its relevance. I want pressure to elicit real reactions and so far he's just been treating the game like a joke and not at all taking it seriously. I'm still processing what exactly that means.

I guess I'll narrow down what I really want from you though. Mae: town or scum? And, if town, why?

[Lord Mhork]

What do you mean by not putting their money where their mouth is?

[Lord Mhork]

You seem so familiar. Shos, have we played together before? I feel like we have.

Whatever. He really doesn't seem to care about votes which I do enjoy.

UNVOTE: Shos

VOTE: Maemuki

So I didn't realize that both GG AND Elle were already here. This is a really sexy wagon, guys. Hop on board! o/

[Lord Mhork]

Lax posting isn't always town though. Scum likes to coast too.

[Lord Mhork]

But she's wrong. Her points don't hold any water. I gave rationale before funky posted and she's ignoring that to make it look like I seeped a scum read and then rationalized it. That didn't happen.

[Lord Mhork]

What does that post mean, funky?

[Lord Mhork]

>.>
You're not giving any good feels to me here, Mae. Try posting more and see what happens.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah but flavor claim doesn't prove alignment. It's not really worth unvoting for.

[Lord Mhork]

I say no. Most games can't be broken by a flavor claim and I don't think this one would be any different. I doubt that PA would herp the derp making the thenadiers and Javert and the foreman and all them bad and the rest good. At the very leasthe would definitely give obv bad people obv good fake claims, so I really don't believe that flavorful claim can definitively make her town.

You can make a flavor justification for anyone in les Mis to be either alignment, Elle. I promise. Focus on the fact that Mae is playing like shit and being super scummy.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah to be honest there are very few completely 'good' or 'evil' characters in Les Mis anyway.

[Lord Mhork]

Why are my posts horrible, mastin?

[Lord Mhork]

0.o
Right. But Mae is the pinnacle of towniness and good feels, right?

[Lord Mhork]

Can you point how the 'town' in her posts then?

[Lord Mhork]

Are you blind, Mae?

For what it's worth, I'm null/town on Malakittens for that early funky attack, nullish/sorta town on elle for general feel, but I don't trust that, and null/townish on Kazekirasomethingorother but that's a really weak guttish thing based on his whole 'Morton's Fork' discussion and general attacks on funky. I'm actually feeling null/scum on Maemuki because fluffity fluff fluff and the fact that she didn't attack my following funky onto shos and scum on funky (obviously).

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

I really want to lean town on bv but I just can't due to lack of evidence and all that. Please post more so I can think you're town, bv! And of course I'm solid null on Grimgroove and I think he should be prodded with a big heavy stick. Maybe a truncheon.

Malakitty, I'm interested in this back and forth you were talking about in 27 with funky as soon as your V/LA ends.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet. Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

Kazikiramira: Whatcha thinking, pal? You look fairly townie thus far.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

Maemuki, you're fluffing really hard. Granted you only have 6 posts, but most of them don't really contribute anything? Why didn't you pursue the following funky thing? What are your thoughts?

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

You're my only read? Really? Perhaps I've spent 20 posts talking about you, but I have nearly 60 as of now. You're trying to throw numbers around without context. In addition I'm only attacking you because you're not here? Is that because I've been patiently waiting for you to come back and elaborate on anything other than bullshit fluff? Where was I trying to lynch you for being an easy target?

Nor has 'point out her towniness' been the extent of my argument anywhere. If you look at my context, ya know by actually reading my posts, you could easily see why I asked that. That is, that mastin had written my last few posts had no town in it, but for some reason he still holds you as his gut scum read in spite of your posts.

I'm actually extremely pissed by your comments that I must be scum for going after you while you weren't here. You can't use that as a way to strawman my entir argument into 'look at the scum attack me because I wasn't here. No town would do that.' That doesn't work. You didn't have a V/LA or any other indications you were not going to have access to the game. There was nothing to show that you weren't just scum waiting for suspicion toward you to blow over, especially since mastin is now your little guardian.

In short, you're argument is fake and wrong and you're still scum.

[Lord Mhork]

You can put Mae at L-1 to inspire her to post better content?

[Lord Mhork]

Hey.

Hey mastin.

Hey.

What's townie about Mae's posting? Her post was wrong and based in her making things up that didn't actually happen. Where's the town in her posting? Where's the town motivation in misrepresenting me?

[Lord Mhork]

No. No you haven't. I asked you to point it out and you ignored me. Nothing in her posts scream town. You're bullshitting here. Point out where the town is. How does it scream town? Use facts to support your gut.

[Lord Mhork]

I'm not getting lynched, malakittens >.>

Mastin is obviously not scum. That doesn't make him right on me. What do you think of Mae?

[Lord Mhork]

well ya see there's no town in my posts. Therefore I must be scum.

[Lord Mhork]

It's the fact that Mae was fluffy and also doing little half attacks with me and just generally being super passive and trying to skirt under the radar.

I'd do more detail, but I have a foot out the door.

[Lord Mhork]

I think you're fine. I would compete for space, but mastin and Mae haven't come back yet. :/

[Lord Mhork]

Alright mastin I'm writing you off as an actual source of information until you actually decide to say real things instead of bullshitting a tone argument for Mae. You can't just say I'm not town, that my posting is 'godawful' and leave it at that. I'm done with you.

Mae, I'm still waiting for you to actually do real posting.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh hey there's still no Mae town case.

Or Mae.

I guess I will continue to wait.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah. All the suspect people aren't posting. This is ridiculous.

Although failing some brilliance, I don't see myself moving from Mae for the rest of the day.

[Lord Mhork]

Unfortunately on my phone, but how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up!

As soon as I finish my book, I'm gonna hop on the computer.

[Lord Mhork]

I don't know how I feel about this...

[Lord Mhork]

[quote="In post 337, Lord Mhork"how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up!

She's fine with being lynched by the quote I pointed out in which she admitted she was fine with being lynched.

Also, stopped showing up, if alignment-indicative at all, would be town, not scum. (It's probably null, as something outside Mae's control.) Because it shows that apathy. Scum are more likely to feel the pressure. Scum are more inclined to post like mad(wo)men in order to avert their lynch. Scum are more likely to fight their absolute hardest to avoid getting lynched, to survive just one more day to get closer to victory.

Haven't read your entire case yet, but with the above I disagree 100%. In my experience town shows a lot more indignation over being lynched, because they know some people are mistaking by voting them. When you're telling the truth and nobody believes you, it's far more frustrating than when lying and nobody believing you.

If you feel like you're being lynched by town players, you can show frustration as town. But if you feel like your mislynch is driven by scum, then no. (Mae felt like her wagon was driven by scum.) You'll accept it, because you know your mislynch can be weaponized to find the scum.

Hi. Those of you who know me are probably pissing and moaning that you had some really bad fucking luck to have me show up.

Quite the opposite, I'm ecstatic. Because you're probably one of the only players here who can prevent your idiotic mislynch.

Just read the towncase, it sucks. Far from what i thought you talked about.

Oh? And what did you think I was talking about, then?[/quote]

Wrong. Not even close to right. If you feel like you're getting your lynch shoved through by scum, typically you fight it as well. Because townies don't want to be lynched. Because every townie lynch brings scum closer to victory.

Perhaps to you it's ok when you think that the wagon is entirely scum driven, but even then don't you at least make an effort to point out who's scum? To give all your information? If for some reason you are resigned to death, don't you at least make your last moments count. Mae didn't do this. Mae dropped off. She disappeared. This wasn't her boldly resigning herself to a lynch knowing that town would be able to find scum on her wagon. No that's just you projecting what is apparently your view on the matter and assuming she is like you in that respect. On the other side, people may not fight nearly as hard as you would with a wagon they believe is town driven. Don't townies tend to be more tunnelvisioned and focused than scum because they don't know and as such they compensate by being overly sure? The point is that you don't know what she was thinking. You only know what you would be thinking if you were her. That is not a solid town case.

And apologies for not focusing on the Mae case. My building's wifi completely went out last night right as I started it.

[Lord Mhork]

Broken quote tags suck, but whatever

Part One: Mae is relaxed in the early game
That is not alignment indicative. Many players as scum are extremely relaxed in the early game especially since they can write off anything they do as not being serious/being RVS/not mattering. Conversely many townies come in very strong and are super obsessive, focused, and wound up, perhaps wanting to exit RVS quickly or just feeling eager. This is null.

Part Two: Mae questions Mhork
This isn't anything. Town Mae has just as much reasoning as scum Mae to find an early game target. Town Mae to start the scumhunting search and scum Mae to search for potential mislynches. You can note that her questions are more of a probing nature testing the water rather than making accusations. While I suppose there's a chance that she is sincerely super calm about everything without a care in the world, it's so much more likely that she's looking for someone to see her minor questions, grab on, and let her ride their cases they build against me. That's a simple, relatively effective scum tactic. She paints a target and someone else goes after it, absolving her of guilt but achieving the mislynch.

And again, you're assuming you're playing with your clone/twin/doppelganger/whatever. You might act this way as town, but other people act this way as scum. What you would do in this situation is irrelevant. And scum Mae wouldn't necessarily push harder. Pushing means attention and until she's sure she has plenty of people agreeing that I look bad, what is there to gain by attention?

Part Three: But she isn't confident guize!!!
Your quote doesn't show her piecing anything together. All she's doing is noting a vote and calling it sheeping. That's just her trying to see if people are agreeing with her about me looking bad. And if scum are too confident, they could just as easily get called out because they already know who is town and who is scum. It's just as common a scum tactic to play like a total idiot, mislynch bait and hope someone like you comes along to white knight them to the end game. It's a matter of tactics. Everyone has different ones.

Part Four: Not making others do work
First of all quote is one of Mae's

Lies

, but that's for another time. Point is she isn't making other people do work for her, but she also isn't doing anything either. I've already pointed out that she was laying a foundation for someone to grab hold of. Why wouldn't she do it? Why was she waiting, lazily probing and testing the waters?

Part Five: The secondary lynch candidate
I would absolutely expect a scum player to point out that a bunch of people are holding her as a secondary lynch candidate. What does she have to lose. Not only does she throw suspicion on all those people away from her, but it also taps into a bit of AtE to get people on her side.

And how in the hell can you read that she's ok with that? Where in there does she say she's ok being a compromise lynch? You're reading into it substance that isn't even there. He tone is accusatory. She points out that she's a back up lynch amongst people and fingers them. She points out all the people who are voicing suspicion without voting her. Where are you getting this idea that she's fine being a compromise?

And that last line is absolute bullshit. She's not trying to figure anything out. She's throwing some slight slander at me. If she has read a single one of my posts, she'd have the answer. She wasn't reading though. She wasn't trying to understand. She was just trying to make people think I was scummy without actually doing or committing to anything.

Part Six: mastin takes the bait hook, line, and sinker
Yeah you're a sucker for buddying. You know why her thoughts seem largely along yours?

It's 'cause they are

. You were defending her and finally accepting the little foundation she was setting against me. Of course she is going to support you and say that I'm ignoring what you're saying and blah de blah blah. And as for the generic platitude that is 'people only do that when they have nothing to say'... please. Anyone can spew that trash. She didn't actually say anything new in that post. She just decided to buddy the shit out of you.

You're being hypocritical. Also you're still making up stuff and reading things that don't exist in the post. She does not--I repeat

she does not

--point out that she's doing the same thing. Instead she ignores that fact that I've been looking at other players, including (very obviously) shos whose wagon I had JUST gotten off of, and makes me look like a some heartless, scummy asshole cruelly trying to force a lurker lynch against poor little her. Nevermind the fact that she never even gave a reason as to why she was lurking so bad, nor would I really expect her to, just look at how much of that is made up or a misrepresentation of the facts. You're reading town motivation and town thought processes that again aren't there and are just reading that how you would expect it to be written if you were town in her position. Once more for good measure

she does not acknowledge that she is doing the same

.

I had given reads on other players long before this point, but whatever. Those aren't reads on GG or elle. That's literally just her giving an explanation as to why she's bitching me out instead of them. This could of course come from scum, especially scum that doesn't want to fight a multifront battle.

I can't believe you're falling for this. She's buddying you because you're the only player standing up for her. Of course that statement resonates with you: it's what anyone would think if they were getting buddied as hard as she was buddying you. Buddying is not a town tell. Not even buddying you. I see scum posting this. Definitely. In fact I would only expect town to post this once in a blue moon. She's not contributing to scum hunting; she's just giving you good feels towards her. Also you have no way of knowing that's legitimate paranoia. You're again making that up.

Part Seven: Tiredness a town tell?
I'm just gonna say you're wrong. That was applied as an AtE. So yeah. You're again reading things that aren't there.

tl;dr: Mae crumbed that she was scum back in 23

Just read the wall. It's that hard

---

mastin's town case for Mae boils down to her buddying him and him reading his own perspective in her posts and projecting what he would do as town in her actions. There isn't a shred of actual evidence in there, in fact most 'evidence' is false, made up, or just plain wrong.

There's still nothing to really indicate Mae town, so I'm still totally down with lynching Ghostlin.

[Lord Mhork]

[quote="In post 337, Lord Mhork"how on earth is Mae fine with being lynched? She stopped showing up!

She's fine with being lynched by the quote I pointed out in which she admitted she was fine with being lynched.

Also, stopped showing up, if alignment-indicative at all, would be town, not scum. (It's probably null, as something outside Mae's control.) Because it shows that apathy. Scum are more likely to feel the pressure. Scum are more inclined to post like mad(wo)men in order to avert their lynch. Scum are more likely to fight their absolute hardest to avoid getting lynched, to survive just one more day to get closer to victory.

Haven't read your entire case yet, but with the above I disagree 100%. In my experience town shows a lot more indignation over being lynched, because they know some people are mistaking by voting them. When you're telling the truth and nobody believes you, it's far more frustrating than when lying and nobody believing you.

If you feel like you're being lynched by town players, you can show frustration as town. But if you feel like your mislynch is driven by scum, then no. (Mae felt like her wagon was driven by scum.) You'll accept it, because you know your mislynch can be weaponized to find the scum.

Hi. Those of you who know me are probably pissing and moaning that you had some really bad fucking luck to have me show up.

Quite the opposite, I'm ecstatic. Because you're probably one of the only players here who can prevent your idiotic mislynch.

Just read the towncase, it sucks. Far from what i thought you talked about.

Oh? And what did you think I was talking about, then?[/quote]
not that hard

[Lord Mhork]

Oh Ghostlin is adorable. He's one of those players.

1) I suppose I'll buy that for now. A body guard is a nice, low powered role especially for a Role Madness setup.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

2) What do you make of the fact that elle and I have been voting together for awhile? You say that it's suspicious, but why exactly is it suspicious? Especially with GG too? We all have mutual town reads on one another last I checked, why wouldn't we vote together?

3) This isn't power tunneling. I've been stuck on Mae for awhile because SHE QUIT POSTING. If you read my posts, you'd see all sorts of angles I've been pursuing. There was Grimgroove. There was shos. There's still funkybike. And there's been Mae. How have I been tunneling? How have I been optimistic? Am I not allowed to point out suspicious activity once someone stops posting? Is that a free pass to scummy behavior?

So why can't all three of us be town? Why is that so impossible? Is it because we're voting you? You're acting just like mastin: 'this is obviously suspicious because I feel it in my gut why are you guys not feeling it too?'

That's very close to an Amish Tell along with the 'I'm disposable' that makes me have lingering bad vibes, but there are better targets than a body guard we direct if he survives the night.

In addition about my 'ballsiness,' if you read my posts up until then, you will see that I had been asking mastin about how he was so sure she was town. That's why I asked for the town in her posts; he had told me that mine had none. Don't try to sling mud. At least find something decent to use. Or better yet, help lynch scum.

Elle, bv or funky? I still find funky scum but I really don't like that bv dropped off the radar. What do you think?

PEDIT:
Did you even read my post, mastin?

[Lord Mhork]

That was a question directed at you. >.>

Elle, (should we lynch) bv or funky?

[Lord Mhork]

Unfortunately have to go to Psych. Will phonepost at breaks if I can.

[Lord Mhork]

Ok first point is that equating a three person bloc to a 7 person bloc is fallacious reasoning. Sure they're both 1/3 of their respective games, but you're forgetting that it's much easier for three people to be in agreement than seven. You can't really seriously push someone as scum for this. You can maybe maaaaaaaaybe use it as backup evidence, but even that's specious in itself.

In addition Elle does have some reason to be in agreement with me. We just won a LyLo and before we got to that point I correctly named the last scum. And I've seen Elle act obv town in some of her past games and the behavior is similar, so I'm confident in my read. If anyone were being opportunistic, it'd be grim, but I'm confident in my town read there as well.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah and I'm not gonna try to answer your death tunneling thing via phone. I'm not that good. It'll have to wait until later/tomorrow.

[Lord Mhork]

Your death tunneling thing is wrong Ghostlin.

For what it's worth, I'm null/town on Malakittens for that early funky attack, nullish/sorta town on elle for general feel, but I don't trust that, and null/townish on Kazekirasomethingorother but that's a really weak guttish thing based on his whole 'Morton's Fork' discussion and general attacks on funky. I'm actually feeling null/scum on Maemuki because fluffity fluff fluff and the fact that she didn't attack my following funky onto shos and scum on funky (obviously).

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

I really want to lean town on bv but I just can't due to lack of evidence and all that. Please post more so I can think you're town, bv! And of course I'm solid null on Grimgroove and I think he should be prodded with a big heavy stick. Maybe a truncheon.

Malakitty, I'm interested in this back and forth you were talking about in 27 with funky as soon as your V/LA ends.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet. Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

Kazikiramira: Whatcha thinking, pal? You look fairly townie thus far.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

Maemuki, you're fluffing really hard. Granted you only have 6 posts, but most of them don't really contribute anything? Why didn't you pursue the following funky thing? What are your thoughts?

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

This is a post I made where I explained my reads on people. It's not like I am ignoring anyone. Well except bv but that's mainly because I forgot he existed. I'll admit I got a little distracted, but that was more because I was waiting for Mae before I could move on.

In addition you can note that I have attacked shos. I've attacked funky. I've attacked Mae. I've even semi attacked mastin. The only reason it looks like I'm 'tunneling' is due to the fact that my attacks on her have lasted longer. Which isn't my fault. Again, it stemmed from her not posting. You'll note that I wasn't saying much of anything while I was waiting for Mae. It's not like I've been bullying through anything. I don't even see where you're getting opportunism from.

Now that you mention it, it is odd that bv stopped posting. I admit that's my bad, but I was distracted. Being distracted when pursuing a scum read is hardly a scum tell. It's minor tunneling, but not tunneling to the sheer extent that you have made it out to be.

As for funky, I haven't really pushed him because I think he's scum. He's, like, solidly scum. What is there to be gained pushing there? I've been more interested in sorting out the null/scums.

You're gonna have to refer me back to the shos vote thing because I can't remember what that is.

Your push on me is bad, but at least it's not mastin bad. I'm not saying you're cleared as town by any stretch, but I feel better about you than I felt about Mae.


Elle hurry I can't decide

For now:
VOTE: funkybikeone

[Lord Mhork]

Hah. That belated OMGUS.

[Lord Mhork]

What? Mastin misrepresented my argument as to why his town case on Mae was faulty. That's all that really happened. Did I miss something?

Why am I scum?

[Lord Mhork]

Ghost why didn't you bodyguard Elle? Who did you guard?

[Lord Mhork]

You thought mastin would die? >.>
Well that's reasonable enough, I suppose.

Rereading people and stuff now.

PEDIT:
Did anyone get a drink yesterday?

[Lord Mhork]

Idea:
VOTE: /malakittens

[Lord Mhork]

Ghostlin, I don't think that bv is that good a person to go after right now. What do you think of mala?

[Lord Mhork]

Why not shos?

And just trust me for that for now.

I looked at at ISOs and funky only had one interaction with mala early on and it was a random early town read for an attack against him, which easily reads as scum/scum trying not to look like they are distancing too hard. As well malakittens never made good on her 'interesting conversation' that she said she and funky would have. She then brushed it off as a reaction test without really giving the reaction she got. She also gave a slight amount of suspicion on me after my funky vote, yet it was also noncommittal. Further on there's more indication that she has a gut scum vibe on funky, which is always gut, and never a real reason for anything but that scum read even when she finally unvotes him.

In addition elle's death also make me comfortable with mala scum. elle was pretty universally town read, and she had malakittens as a strong town read. The motive there is perfectly clear.

[Lord Mhork]

Did the drink do anything?

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah I was hoping you'd distract town...

Also GG is very town, Mala. Just saying. And it can definitely implicate you. I'm not saying it's complete proof, but by killing elle, you make people more likely to follow her reads including her town reads and her scum reads.

[Lord Mhork]

Not necessarily. I'm not getting into the WIFOM right now with you over death. There is definitely plenty of scum reasoning to do so though. Plenty.

What do you mean by killed to hide something on the wagon? What do you mean her reads were off?

[Lord Mhork]

I'm not using it as proof. I'm simply saying that her town read on you doesn't clear you as scum, which I knew would definitely get argued.

Then what do you feel was off? What proof do you have?

I don't know what that last line is supposed to mean.

[Lord Mhork]

It's not bad and I'm not using Elle's town read as proof either way.

Your scum reads are wrong. Do you have a third?

[Lord Mhork]

Well I haven't been looking for crumbs; I've been looking for scum >.>

[Lord Mhork]

Ok your top three scum reads are wrong. What else do you have?

[Lord Mhork]

Well when it's me, a super town read, and a semi-strongish town read, yeah we're gonna disagree.

[Lord Mhork]

It might be shos, though it'd be a stretch for that. Then there's also mastin2 who I really don't think is scum but also am not that sure is town. All three of you came to me through process of elimination, though, which is why you seem like the most logical conclusion.

PEDIT:
SHE MIGHT BE HOW CAN YOU BE SURE?

[Lord Mhork]

CAN YOU SHOW ME SO I CAN BE SURE TOO?

[Lord Mhork]

Also mala are you suggesting that I power bused my buddy right out of the gate?

[Lord Mhork]

No you kept a 'my gut says you're scummy' which is a common scum tactic. I actually said funky was scum and consistently held that approach with evidence.

[Lord Mhork]

Why not, shos?

But you can't substantiate a gut read. It's a cop out with a built in escape of 'it was only gut/it wasn't strong gut.'

[Lord Mhork]

Not even tunneling. You're just the only person who's actually talking to me.

Got it. Meta clearing shos along with weak association.

[Lord Mhork]

Elaborate for me.

[Lord Mhork]

>.>
Please, shos? I'll give you a cookie.

[Lord Mhork]

I don't even know what you're babbling about. Who should I be going after then shos?

[Lord Mhork]

UNVOTE:

GG, your posts have been giving me all the good feels so that's why I think you're town.

Mala, what does that mean

Shos, I think tomorrow would probably be better unless someone has information that can confirm one of GG, mastin, or ghostlin.

Mastin is next on my list, but I wanna see how good a vote on him looks later when I'm awake.

[Lord Mhork]

I wasn't needling Shos about what role he was holding. >.>

[Lord Mhork]

I had thought I missed something obvious day one or something. He was babbling about conf town which gets thrown around a lot in place of obv town. It never even crossed my mind that it could be role related.

[Lord Mhork]

Fuck off mastin. You're wrong.

I didn't think it was role related 'cause I'm not trying to role fish. I've been playing this game mountainous in my head from the start because that's all I've needed. I found funky didn't I? Why the hell would I power bus him so hard? There were plenty of other people I could have gone after.

This is probably all the real content you'll get from me today. IRL has me FURIOUS.

[Lord Mhork]

You shouldn't lynch me because I'm very much town. >.>

Malakittens, bv isn't town.

[Lord Mhork]

Is town. Fuck midterms

[Lord Mhork]

I can say that I believe very, very strongly in town bv right now.

[Lord Mhork]

I wouldn't autovote because autovoting is stupid. I would, however, look at this third person with a high level of scrutiny.

[Lord Mhork]

Better idea:
lynch mastin, then ghost, then GG. We might as well end this quickly since I'm fairly certain you're town, Ghostlin.

[Lord Mhork]

It's not necessary, Malakittens.

And if we must claim now, I guess, but I'd rather wait until tomorrow to do it.

[Lord Mhork]

Look I'm going to plead the same way that shos is pleading. We don't need to out PRs yet.

[Lord Mhork]

No

VOTE: mastin

[Lord Mhork]

GG is town. He's not scum.

[Lord Mhork]

Just look at his posts. There's analysis there. He came in strong with his opening few posts. He went through the effort of ISOing Mae to put together a rationale for why he was suspicious of her, providing actual thoughts and work. He shows a development of and progression of reads and back them all up with evidence. There's no gut cop out there.

In addition he could have let funky derp hammer. I can maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe see this as very slight coaching, but that's a stretch in light of other evidence. He could just have easily let funky hammer her as an easy lynch and focused on someone else while discounting funky as an idiot for his actions and not alignment indicative. Instead he didn't want a speedy derp hammer. I like this.

So yeah. I'm fairly confident in my town read there.

Hey by the way mastin

VOTE: Lord Mhork.

Right, so Mala, I'm really liking what Mae's selling, combined with Mhork's overall bad posting.

Put it another way--funky might feel like scum...but Mhork also not only feels like scum, but LOOKS like scum as well.

Short on time atm, but basically, I really want today to be Mhork vs. Funky (lean towards Mhork), rather than Funky vs. Mae. Funky vs. Mae feels funky. Doesn't seem right, doesn't seem natural. Also, I know I said (and Mae agrees) that Mhork vs. Funky can't be scum-scum, but I'm kinda getting a gut feeling today that, somehow, despite all logic pointing to that not being right, it actually is right. Hence, another reason why having the two wagons be Funky and Mhork would be better.

What happened to this?

[Lord Mhork]

Well now your turn. Give me real reasons why mastin there is town.

[Lord Mhork]

The thing is that he didn't go after funky right from the get go. He went after me and kept this odd semi scum read on funky which was only really supported by 'his posts are especially bad' and 'he looks scummy.' Also he never followed up. He just sorta kept it there as a backup, which scum mastin could totally do after reading funky as an especially weak scum player. Actually I'm interested now. How did mastin bus funky?

Why?

The interactions between funky and Mhork don't look like scum-scum. I said this before. I am still saying it now.

I have scumreads on both of them. My scumreads on both of them come from a combination of bad posting from both of them, and POE townreads on most of the other players. So they're both scumreads, separate from one another.

While them both being town is possible, for both of them to be town requires me to be wrong on AT LEAST one townread, not to mention, a minimum of two of my three scumreads*. And I'd like to think I'm a more competent player than that. So, YES. I don't think it's town-town. Nor have I ever thought it was town-town.

In fact, while the interactions don't look like scum-scum, I still think that, somehow, it's possible for it to be scum-scum. (Put it another way--don't look like scum-scum, but feel like they could be scum-scum.)

*Not to mention, their interactions don't look like townVtown, either. Read their interactions yourself and tell me you think they're both town. Seriously. It's not a town-town interaction.

This post is also bad from mastin. He's saying we probably aren't scum-scum, but also leaves the window open for it to be scum-scum after all. This wavering isn't town at all. He's trying to cover all his bases while maintaining a bad attack on me.

PEDIT:
Well you were a help too, but I did plenty too to discern the alignment :c

[Lord Mhork]

No lynch sounds bad. We've PoE'd it out good enough and scum will just kill an obv town

[Lord Mhork]

Hey guess what, mastin! Still not scum. I haven't been scum. I haven't for awhile now. You're push on me is bad and you should feel bad for 'scumhunting' so poorly.

If we are mass claiming, mastin first.

[Lord Mhork]

Mastin, why would I power bus funky when there were soooooo many other wagons I could have forced through?

PEDIT:
Fuck off you're being asked by a town read of pretty much everyone else.

[Lord Mhork]

No mastin before me. I've already said this. The less info he gets, the better.

[Lord Mhork]

Where's mastin? Why isn't he jumping at the chance to clear himself?

[Lord Mhork]

What's your name, mastin?

Btdubs I don't believe his claim. He committed a certain tell that I've actually found surprisingly strong when it comes to role claims. Plus there's way too much preemptive defense in there for me to feel comfortable. It was very forced and polished, like he'd been thinking really hard about how he'd put it

PEDIT:
It's not even that intricate of a claim. Like, at all.

[Lord Mhork]

So it's mastin vs GG? I'm cool with that.

[Lord Mhork]

Gee willikers, mastin. You sure got me good. It's not like I was waiting for you to finish your claim or anything.

@GG: I never said that I visited bv, which I didn't.

I am actually Eponine, the town mailman. Each night I'm allowed to write a note each night of no more than 50 words which the mod will send to a player of my choice. As I was afraid that I would get killed dead, and since elle was my strongest town read, I sent her my reads on all living players in case I died. Unfortunately she died, so that was a waste. I actually wrote it in a rhyming scheme and everything.

Also mastin, Marius makes absolutely 0 sense as a Jailkeeper. Like, everyone else has made at least some semblance of sense, except this one. You claim is fake and awkward like funky's was with the bishop.

So is the rest of the town claiming too, 'cause if so, bv should prolly be next.

[Lord Mhork]

>.>
I hope it's not bad form to out people.

Last night bv neighborized me. Neighborizer seems a weak as fuck role to give a tiny scum team, and especially with a redirector sneaking around the extra targeting town role makes sense. I'm also iffy on mastin's Marius claim because my QT is the barricade so unless bv is Enrojlas or however you spell his stupid name, I don't see who could work.

Bonus points: I don't actually doubt that mastin is a jailkeeper, but I bet he's, like, Javert. Which sucks 'cause I love Javert with a passion.

[Lord Mhork]

I mean I know that neighborizers can possibly be scum, but the level of power on this town leads me to think that scum got a leg up for balance.

[Lord Mhork]

I'll just paraphrase it since I butchered it down to make it rhyme and fit in 50 words. Essentially I said that you she were super town in my book, and that mastin and malakittens were both likely on our side too since mastin is playing like a fool and mala was giving me goodfeels. I also said that I didn't like bv's coasting and that he could very well be scum, and that shos and ghostlin also had high odds of being scum.

Then today happened and role claiming fucked that over, but those were supposed to be my dying words to elle.

PEDIT:
I actually think that I've seen mailman a couple times as filler roles. They write notes; it's kinda their thing mafiawise.

Not really. I mean, they're both fairly useless filler roles, but that's to be expected in a role madness setting. To avoid making it too swingy there are lots of situation/fruit vendor-esque roles. And the letter didn't have to be just for reads, but I figured I had a decent shot at dying and a dead man's honest last reads are a pretty big deal. Also I could be completely honest about what I felt and how strong the reads were instead of having to try and elicit reactions. Those were my honest feelings at the end of that day.

And I wouldn't write them in thread because A) there's always a significant chance that someone would hammer and the flip would happen before I got online in time to post my thoughts and B) if I didn't die, I gave away too much information that scum could use. There's a reason people are often vague about exactly how they feel about each and every player. There's a huge difference between 'X is scum' and 'X might be scum but there's also a good chance that it's in here.'

Well yeah but it's not too impossibly hard to argue that a scum neighborizer could be a thing. It's very often a thing.

No. I will tonight though.

PPEDIT:
Barring massive illogical shenanigans, pretty much every player in thread has stated in one way or another that Ghostlin is town and that his claim works. There's a slight chance he might be scum, but that's out there.

Uh.. I can PM penguin and ask I guess if it's that important.

[Lord Mhork]

Also I have no idea why there was a no result tracking on bv. That's part of the reason I believe there actually could be a JK/RB who must have blocked you GG. *cough*mastin*cough

[Lord Mhork]

And yeah I PMed P_A about copy/pasting my exact wording on my note to Elle

[Lord Mhork]

It's cool. Here y'all go.

If I, Lord Mhork, should die tonight
Tell the others what I write.
You and GG are surely town
Likewise mastin, though a clown.
Malakittens is likely on our side
And bv is coasting for the ride.
Scum he may be, very true
Or Ghost or shos to name a few.

[Lord Mhork]

Why thank you
If you count the words, it's actually 50. That was a pain in the neck to do.

But yeah. I think everyone else should claim now too. Then we can come up with a plan for the Night Phase, string up mastin, and, if somehow the game isn't over, we should win tomorrow. Cakewalk ;D

[Lord Mhork]

No I definitely got cleared to post the full message by PA. Like, that was a real thing. Why would I bullshit it anyway? Hell why wouldn't I have picked any other role?

So Shos says he's a tracker? Didn't GG say he was one too?

[Lord Mhork]

Wait what the hell is a follower?

[Lord Mhork]

Why did I think Shos was scum? He was being a dipshit. And then I was looking over people and I was like 'wait a sec who the hell is mala?' So I read and stuff and found reasons. The fact that I didn't die meant that I did something wrong, obviously, so I was trying to reevaluate my reads.

I don't see why follower and tracker can't be a thing. And I seriously think mastin JKed our gavroche 'cause that's the only thing that makes sense. Also valjean jumped into the sewer; Javert killed himself by jumping into the swollen river seine.

[Lord Mhork]

Please don't hammer until I wake up and can think of an awesome strategy with the roles we have on the slight chance mastin isn't scum.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah I don't have time to type right now, but I will later

[Lord Mhork]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. There is no fucking way you are all so dense.

I have class. I'll be here in two and a half hours.

I cannot fucking believe that this is happening.

[Lord Mhork]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. There is no fucking way you are all so dense.

I have class. I'll be here in two and a half hours.

I cannot fucking believe that this is happening.

I'm not sure if this is town vomiting shit rage, or scum caught for the wrong reasons.

No. I'm cranky town who woke up and suddenly people stopped wanting to win. The fact of the matter is that mastin is, has been, and will continue to be scum. That's just the way this is. He's done nothing but tunnel me and push a shit case on me. Believe me, my 'scum caught for the wrong reasons' explosions are much worse.

Escuchame:

I am actually Eponine, the town mailman. Each night I'm allowed to write a note each night of no more than 50 words which the mod will send to a player of my choice. As I was afraid that I would get killed dead, and since elle was my strongest town read, I sent her my reads on all living players in case I died. Unfortunately she died, so that was a waste. I actually wrote it in a rhyming scheme and everything.

Yeeeeeah, this is scum.

Step 1: 'Yeah... I have no answer for this so I'm going to continue pushing that you're scum for no reason.'

Also mastin, Marius makes absolutely 0 sense as a Jailkeeper.

Take it up with the mod, then. That's my role. I know it's my role. Arguing it doesn't fit doesn't matter, because it's my damn role. It's what I have. Period. Nothing you can say nor do will change the fact that I am Marius, Town Jailkeeper. There's basically zero flavor explanation in the role PM for it, either. (A vaguely flavor-related quote that I'm guessing serves as the justification, a description of who Marius is which I think was also served to further the justification, and then the basic town alignment description. That's it. Then a description of my powers. Voice, vote, and a description of the jailkeeper power. With the official town wincon at the end. Seriously. That's a concise summary of the entirety of my PM. No elaborate descriptions. Nothing. Just that.) But it's my role, all the same.

Step 2: 'Look I know what the town PM looks like so I'm gonna spell it out for you. Also self-righteous indignation! In lack of actual evidence, proof, or facts, I'm going to continue trucking with all my fallacies because that's what town does.' (Right here a bit of Appeal to Authority with Appeal to Emotions)

I don't know the flavor behind the role. I don't know anything about it. So I can't even guess why the mod made that decision. Doesn't matter. It's my role. Period. Hell. Even if you think that I was scum, I'd still have it as my fakeclaim, no? And if the mod didn't design fakeclaims to work as well as realclaims, then the game would be broken. So your point holds no water.

I also dislike how intensely he defends his role. One paragraph I can understand, but two? And that wasn't even the crux of my argument. And the fakeclaim thing almost screams scumtell to me. We have no idea whether P_A provided scum fakeclaims. And even if we assume they do based on fuzzy butchering his Bishop claim, we can assume that scum fake claims are nothing more than the flavor name of someone not known to be in the game. What's your point here? You don't have one. You're just strawmanning to get ahead and being bullshitting scum.

Although to be fair I don't doubt that you are actually a JK/RB, but that role still makes far more sense in scum hands than town, especially with power stacked thusly.

Also, you role is very similar to elleheathen's role. It basically boils down to delivering something. Whether it's a letter, a fruit or a drink, I don't see how that makes much difference. I don't understand the added value of a letter, what's to stop you from writing down those reads before the night ends, in the topic?

It's probably a fakeclaim. It doesn't make sense with the setup, as it IS redundant. It serves the same exact function as the fruit vendor, only being more powerful. Trackers and followers/reporters serve different functions, with one seeing the visiting target and the other seeing the type of action. Bodyguards and Jailkeepers serve different functions, with one self-sacrificing and the other hindering. Fruit vendor and mailman? Absolutely redundant.[/url]

So are you saying that my 'redundant role' is worse than, say, the follower/tracker combination? You discount it because 'they serve different functions,' but what does that even mean? They both have a very good shot catching scum on the first night. What about the bodyguard/JK combination? They're redundant in the fact that they both save people. It doesn't matter the method. [/i]They do the same thing[/i]. In fact Fruit Vendor and Mailman are the two least redundant roles you listed up there. One visits for the sake of visiting; the other sends a message to another player at night.

That is different

. Furthermore we know that in Role Madness games, some people get stuck with absolute shit roles that serve no purpose other than 'yay power role.' If only one person had that, that would be stupid. There are bound to be a few lying around.

That said...if your theory of there being two scum left (albeit two different types of scum) is correct, it's not impossible (albeit highly improbable) for it to be a scum power. Hell, that's a scum-oriented power; just look at mykonian's title for a demonstration of why.

This is stupid. Why would P_A gimp an already super gimped faction in this setup? Again this is fallacious reasoning. You don't care whether or not I'm scum; you just want to lynch me. Also you're doing way too much here. "He's probably lying but also he might not be because it makes sense that he's scum either way." That's not town reasoning. That scum covering all his bases so his entire case doesn't get blown out of the water if there happens to be a role cop or something.

It does explain why you townread BV310 now though, also if you're scum. You had no choice because BV310 would bring up the neighborizing argument himself in case he would get a wagon on him (if he'd get active in this game at least).

Precisely.

No that doesn't follow. If I wanted to, I could have pushed bv for being a scum neighborizor. This case is nothing at all and all this reasoning is bad and scum super capitalizing on town paranoia.

UNVOTE:

Eh.
Need to go over things once more. mastin's got a point with this redundancy thing.

No he really, really doesn't.

Mailman is a weaker verison of a neighborizer

Basically, this. Except also applying to the fruit vendor, only moreso.

A fruit vendor serves a purpose of saying "I visited you!", and in this variant, is apparently used during the day. It's practically a Friendly Neighbor, in that its usage is to make you look town.

A neighborizer serves the purpose of talking to another player.

A mailman serves a purpose of saying, "Look at me, I'm town!" While also delivering a message (one-way talking) to a player.

It's redundant to both.

Thus, it's either fake, or scum real, but not town.

Again you're just being wrong here. Mailman lets town give a message in the night phase. That is a

huge

potential. You can't just hand wave a role because

you

think it's too similar. P_A designed this game, we can argue that with her later if you really think I shouldn't be a mailman. The point still remains that I am one. And to think that it could even REMOTELY be scum read, you have to be a dipshit with no brain. Look at the sheer town power. LOOK AT IT. Look at what everyone is claiming to have. Scum has to be

that powerful

. Any townie would look at that. You are not. You're just trying to force a bad lynch.

I don't even wanna touch that poetry push. Yeah it's alignment null, but that doesn't even matter. That's the message I sent to elle. If you want, tonight I'll send a note to whomever is super mega 'OMG MHORK SCUM.' Also your push on me doesn't make good sense. It doesn't. At all. It's just a string of bad attacks and a town who now is suffering the first stages of town paranoia in thinking that a game is too easily won after lynching scum early on.

I've come to this conclusion in shower earlier too. if he could write such a poem at night, then he could do the same anytime. preparing a good fakeclaim like that is art, I know, I've done that too ( ), but this game really has too many townguys, so on a which-townie-is-scum list, I'm guessing that I'm changing.

VOTE: Lord Mhor

Shos, you should feel sincerely bad for this vote. I cannot fucking believe that you all are following mastin's hand like that. The only thing he has done has distract attention and strawman. A classic scum tactic. A classic

any deception

tactic. He's making you see only what he wants you to see at the moment.

I'll tackly GG's absolutely awful post after I get back in ~hour thirty, but it's about as bad as mastin's push on me and reeks of badness. I'll also explain optimal PR tactics for maximum clearage too. Just don't be idiots and lynch me while I'm gone.

[Lord Mhork]

I've looked at MHork's interactions with funkytown, and I'm suddenly very inclined to vote him.

Take a look yourself.

Oh wow

VOTE: funkybike1

Pointing out that you're backpedaling doesn't make it any less sketch. You put me at L-1 on page one; you don't just drop it when someone points out what you did. In addition the fact you you seem to not have noticed the logical disconnect between your not liking putting someone at L-2 in the first page and putting me there with 5 posts of that. You don't even provide real rationale for jumping on me, implying that you're just bullshitting opinions.

Odds are you're probably town because very few scum are that dense, but it's definitely something worth pushing.

What exactly is your opinion of early game wagons?

That sentence always rang weird to me, and a scum-bus could fit with this. Provide a real argument as to funky-scum,b ut for some reason take the heat off and leave the door open to get off that wagon.

That comment is actually far more common on me than most. It has to do with the fact that I have a shit time reading people and thus usually don't believe my own reads. It's not like I necessarily have no reads, but that I can always see where I could be wrong. For instance I can totally see the argument for mastin town and mastin scum, just like I can see arguments for every single player. And the fact of the matter was that his post was so obviously scummy that I was hesitant to think that I could actually have caught scum being scummy. That, like, never happens for me. I usually blatantly misread people. Saying 'you're probably town' was the 'too scummy to be scum' fallacy. Make sense?

What's Morton's fork?

VOTE: shos

Don't worry, funky. I haven't forgotten you.

He votes shos for the townread shos gave to funky. In a way this can still be considered a bus to funky, but Mhork chooses another wagon. This is illogical: Mhork claims to think funky is scum. shos thought funky was town at that point. Mhork moves his vote away from funky and moves it to shos. It seems to fit, but it really is rather awkward if you think about it.

What do you mean 'awkward if you think about it.' Anyway by this point, I think I mentioned, I was fairly sure that funky was scum, as indicated by 'I haven't forgotten you.' I was hunting for potential scum buddies here. It's not awkward in the least. I wasn't about to waste the rest of the day railing on obvscumness. I was trying to make the most of this. I found scum, thus I assumed odds were high that I was going to die in the night phase so I wanted to do what I could.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

It feels like a pretty blanket statement with little engagement, and very few additional arguments. It feels as if MHork doesn't need a lot of arguments to call funky scum, apart from what he said right after RVS.
I think a typical thing for scum bussing scum, is that they call eachother scum but don't really bother with formulating arguments. Psychologically this is understandable, since for scum it oes without saying their buddy is scum.

The scratched out was snark, in case that wasn't obvious. I didn't feel like I needed a lot of arguments because

I had already caught him

. That happened already. Why would I continue trying to make arguments? The only thing I could hope for would be that he says something stupid to out his buddy. And your statement there is

flawed

. I already had formulated an argument why funky was scum. That was a thing. It happened. Therefore right here you are ignoring what happened to fit a sudden epiphany you want to have.

I found reasons he was scum. I pushed him. I was satisfied that I had proven, at least to myself, that he was scum. I moved on. Where is the issue here?

Oh yay Grim is prolly town woohoo!

Scum is somewhere in Mae/Krazy/Shos. GG.

He forgot funkytown here. Despite having called him obvscum plenty of times before.

No... Other scum is in Mae/Krazy/Shos. That's really obvious if you bother to read things in context.

Then what are your thoughts thus far? Who do you think is scum? I mean other than obv scum funky.

Still no additional arguments. and he keeps finding reasons not to vote said obvscum.

Why vote for obvscum when you can find obvscum's partner? If we had speed lynched funky, how would that have helped town more than what I was doing here?

Oh Ghostlin is adorable. He's one of those players.

1) I suppose I'll buy that for now. A body guard is a nice, low powered role especially for a Role Madness setup.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

2) What do you make of the fact that elle and I have been voting together for awhile? You say that it's suspicious, but why exactly is it suspicious? Especially with GG too? We all have mutual town reads on one another last I checked, why wouldn't we vote together?

3) This isn't power tunneling. I've been stuck on Mae for awhile because SHE QUIT POSTING. If you read my posts, you'd see all sorts of angles I've been pursuing. There was Grimgroove. There was shos.

There's still funkybike.

And there's been Mae. How have I been tunneling? How have I been optimistic? Am I not allowed to point out suspicious activity once someone stops posting? Is that a free pass to scummy behavior?

Cosy in the middle.

What the hell does that even mean?

Elle, bv or funky? I still find funky scum but I really don't like that bv dropped off the radar. What do you think?

Still thinks funky is obvscum, still no additional arguments, and trying to find another reason to vote someone else over funky, in this case bv. Looking for support towards elleheathen.

Yeah because she was bleeding town and I wanted to know what she thought. If bv turned out to be scum, we'd have caught both. Quit being stupid and dense and try looking at it from my perspective. Where is the

scum motivation

in doing this?

That was a question directed at you. >.>

Elle, (should we lynch) bv or funky?

The question repeats itself. Despite having had an obscum read on funky for the entire day, he wants to consider the option of a lurker-lynch.

Yeah I asked the question again because she thought that I thought I was calling her scum. Same answer as before. I was hunting for funky's PARTNER. I was asking if she thought bv could be FUNKY'S PARTNER and thus worth a lynch or whether we should just have lynched funky dead.

Bonus point: if we had lynched funky's partner yesterday, if we had a roleblocker/jailkeeper, we could have stopped the kill. There are benefits to keeping obvscum alive, GG. It can actually be a very strong tactic. Look at this at more than a surface level and try to understand.

Your death tunneling thing is wrong Ghostlin.

This is a post I made where I explained my reads on people. It's not like I am ignoring anyone. Well except bv but that's mainly because I forgot he existed. I'll admit I got a little distracted, but that was more because I was waiting for Mae before I could move on.

In addition you can note that I have attacked shos. I've attacked funky. I've attacked Mae. I've even semi attacked mastin. The only reason it looks like I'm 'tunneling' is due to the fact that my attacks on her have lasted longer. Which isn't my fault. Again, it stemmed from her not posting. You'll note that I wasn't saying much of anything while I was waiting for Mae. It's not like I've been bullying through anything. I don't even see where you're getting opportunism from.

Now that you mention it, it is odd that bv stopped posting. I admit that's my bad, but I was distracted. Being distracted when pursuing a scum read is hardly a scum tell. It's minor tunneling, but not tunneling to the sheer extent that you have made it out to be.

As for funky, I haven't really pushed him because I think he's scum. He's, like, solidly scum. What is there to be gained pushing there? I've been more interested in sorting out the null/scums.

You're gonna have to refer me back to the shos vote thing because I can't remember what that is.

Your push on me is bad, but at least it's not mastin bad. I'm not saying you're cleared as town by any stretch, but I feel better about you than I felt about Mae.


Elle hurry I can't decide

For now:
VOTE: funkybikeone

Finally the vote. But the thing in bold sounds far from natural.

I'm sorry that you're a dipshit and think that doesn't sound natural, but it was. That had been and is still my thought process on funky. Are you really saying that you didn't like the way I was conducting my scumhunting yesterday and thus I'm scum? 'Cause that's what it felt like. I finally voted because the deadline happened and I hadn't found the partner. That was a thing. And yeah, I was sorting out nulls and scum reads.

That's what pro town people do.

And I learned a lot from doing that yesterday. I confirmed Ghostlin as town to me. I figured that shos had good odds being town. I basically proved that Elle was town to me. I thought I had a solid reason to think you were town. Instead of wasting the day powering through a lynch that was more or less inevitable because of how obv scum he was, I utilized the day to try and

figure shit out.

What is wrong with scenario? What bleeds scumminess about this to you? What possible scum motivation was there in my actions. Tell me that. This isn't a game of catching scum slips and finding scum that way. That's an abnormality. This is a game of catching actions that are motivated by scum. Things that scum would do to help them win. How was prolonging the day, looking for a partner for funky, and not just power lynching his scummy ass helping me win. If I had championed his lynch, I'd have likely got major town points for catching him so quickly, but instead I didn't immediately pursue him. How did that help scum me?

This will look like WIFOM on the surface and it will probably be discounted as thus, but it's something that needs to be considered. The game isn't played by random epiphanies and shit power tunneling. That's weak, illogical, irrational, and bad play. Honestly I'm surprised that mastin, who is being nominated for Professor Mafia, is acting like such a poor player. Why does that not scream at anyone else?

I've decided. Props on the poem Mhork, but you're scum.

Also, looking at the night actions, it makes sense. Mhork killed Elleheathen and blocked me. He called us town, so he had to neutralize us in another way: during the night.

This is just paranoid bullshitting and rationalization. Elle was the biggest proponent of me being town. She would have been a shit target. If I were scum, I'd have let you guys do your shit because I was part of an awesome townie block. I could have shot literally anyone else and it would have been much better for my position as scum. Hell I would have probably shot mastin to get him to stop hounding me.

But I didn't. Ask yourself: where is the scum motivation to kill my biggest town advocate and leave alive the dipshit who did nothing but call me scum for bad reasons? Can you find any way in which that improved the game for me.

Also props to mastin. He makes no sense but it seems he was correct about all his reads. Reminiscent of an oracle, talking jibberish but truthful and full of wisdom at the core.

Yeah you're a moron. Mastin has been spouting bullshit all game and I'm sure he knows it. He could very well have been correct on the rest of his reads

because scum know peoples' alignments.

There's been no wisdom at all from him this game except maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe the little bit on Mae being obviously town, though that was hardly wisdom as even Ghostlin said her play was shit.

Sorry if I'm running ahead of things, but I really feel I've had an epiphany here.

Epiphanies don't just happen and it's embarrassingly bad play that you so easily did a complete 180 based on nothing more than a skewed ISO. Honestly the only time that a total 180 is acceptable is LyLo when clearly you made a mistake in your reads. But not now. This is Day Two. The fact remains that I caught Funky. And I caught mastin. And you don't even have a real case.

Let me just spell this out for you because you apparently didn't catch it.

I thought funky was scum from basically the beginning of the game. I decided, however, that instead of powering through his lynch, it would be better for the town to hunt for his scum buddy, so that's what I did. Your 'reasoning' for me being scum is laughably bad because it hinges on your assumption that I wasn't serious about wanted to lynch funky dead or that I was bussing. Here's a dirty secret about me: I don't like bussing. I've bussed once and that was, frankly, an accident because he scumslipped so hard that I forgot I was scum and he was my buddy. Your argument is nothing more than you becoming super paranoid and feeling like the game was too easy so scum must be somewhere other than the obvious. Try using Occam's Razor: the simplest solution is that I'm still very town, and mastin still looks very bad.

You argument is pathetically bad, GG. You've been having a good game thus far, don't throw this away with shit reads that come out of nowhere.

PEDIT:
I don't care. I don't get lynched. It very rarely happens and I'm not about to let it happen here. I am town. Now I'm going to write out how Power Roles should be used tonight to optimize them. And bullshit, shos. You know that I am the LEAST likely to be scum at all here.

Mala I know how you feel, but GG gave me good feels in the beginning and I have a horrifically hard time retracting that read when mastin has been playing the way he has been.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh fuck I misread what shos does. That makes things harder. Whatever. You think that I'm scum, GG? Fine here's what we can do. We lynch mastin and if, by some miracle, he is actually town, we get rid of the only real obstructive role. Then you can follow me and see that I don't kill. If I'm scum, you'll see me kill someone and if I'm town you'll just see me deliver mail. And if I'm scum that doesn't get caught, we'll have no Night Kill to worry about.

Ghostlin can body guard you so that I can't sneaky knife you before you can present a result.

Then mala can do whatever the hell it is that her role does and shos can keep her honest. In the mean time bv and I can have drinks in the QT and laugh about the fact that scum can't make a kill as long as this plan is in effect with conf-towning me.

PEDIT:
Do you have any fucking idea how hard it is to write a 50 word poem trying to explain how you feel about your reads in mafia? Explaining my conflicted feelings about Ghostlin still having a bit of the Mae shadow over his head which gives me enough doubt to not be able to completely clear him to elle and that shos was being a moron but the townie kind while also having minor gut vibes that make me want him to get pressured upon my death is not an easy thing to write. Neither is it easy to explain the process of elimination that takes place when trying to piece together a cohesive image of the townies, the prolly townies, the prolly scummies, and the totes scums.

In short, 50 isn't easy to work with and I didn't want to confirm anyone that had that remaining doubt.

PPEDIT:
I feigned confidence and grew stronger in it. That sort of thing happens.

And fuck off with the WIFOM. I'm just pointing out that me killing elle isn't nearly as bulletproof a theory about me being scum as you said. I had a fuckload of other people I could have shot with greater success. Why the fuck would I mail her a letter if I was going to kill her? After all, according to mastin, the point of a mailman is to look town. If I sent her my letter, then she would have been essentially confirmed town on me.

[Lord Mhork]

Or we could just not end up LyLo. Shos is just as invaluable as Ghostlin come LyLo. Not only that, but if Shos does tonight, you're just trading one conf town for another. On the flip side, if I'm a moron scum and decide to kill him, I out myself.

[Lord Mhork]

So would the opportunity to both block and kill?

[Lord Mhork]

Exactly

[Lord Mhork]

With scum having wasted a bunch of time? I don't know. Aren't you following me anyway? So I get cleared as not scum which = progress.

[Lord Mhork]

It's stupid. Role blocking does not stop the qt and no lynching right now is the exact worst thing town can do.

[Lord Mhork]

Or we kill mastin because frankly I don't trust him to follow any set guidelines and role blocking can fuck everything up hard. Then we do my plan which works better.

Plus there's that thing where I think mastin is scum. So yeah.

PEDIT:
I'm not no lynching. That's that. We have too large a town pool to no lynch.

PPEDIT:
It's a no lymch. No lynch is bad idea. Therefore I cast aside your plan.

[Lord Mhork]

What if mastin just doesn't care? So far I've seen little that indicates he's willing to step off his pedestal and work with people that aren't him.

[Lord Mhork]

Malakittens does whatever she wants to whomever she wants because we don't know what she is. However investigation would be nice. Also your following bv is stupid. Why are you trying to do stupid things, GG? You are going to follow me to see that I only sent my letter at night and that I'm not doing other shenanigans. That was kinda a big deal to you since you really thought my role could easily be scum, didn't you?

[Lord Mhork]

I thought you wanted to follow me because you were worried about someone blocking grim and killing Shos. Isn't that a gaping hole in your plan?

[Lord Mhork]

If a sun optimal lynch works, Shos, then why not shoot for optimal with mastin?

And I can't link right now nor for several hours. You're welcome to look yourself though.

And duh I don't want to get lynched, but that's just meta. I hate being lynched. It's null.

[Lord Mhork]

Yay! Good game everyone and thank you P_A for the funs.

[Lord Mhork]

>.>
You're play wasn't that strong though. You were power tunneling me and it was very obviously bad. Sure roles helped clear some people, but you were all around scummier than GG, so I was more than willing to string you up.

Not to say you weren't doing alright, but your tunneling was definitely major scummy and not necessarily 'better' than me or GG. GG was obv town yesterday anyway.

[Lord Mhork]

I didn't figure that neighborizer would make to much sense for scum in this setup, and I doubted that any scum would try to neighbor me. I mean I considered it briefly, but bv didn't seem like the kinda guy who would have acted like that. Plus, not taking lurking into account, he wasn't all that scummy.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah I mean your slots were good at not interacting, but a big concern of mine was that your interaction with me didn't feel like town on town.

[Lord Mhork]

It's 'cause I'm obv town