Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Pyrotechnics

Anyone with the following abilities should claim right away: Deadline, Hitman, Investigative Immune, Nightkill. I'd want Extra Vote and Vote Freezer to claim, too.

We got Investigation Immune! I can't believe it was so cheap. We even bid $80 on it to keep it out of scum's hands.

[Lost Butterfly]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

Garuda and upside down, enlighten me with the thought process behind sharing with the town that you <i>didn't</i> get roles. Also, Empire, why do you want <i>neighbourizer</i> in particular to claim?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJA-ING ME.

Fixed broken quote tag.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, I think everyone should claim if they advertised or what they advertised on. Not the actual amount.

[Lost Butterfly]

OMIGOD, STOP NINJAING ME.

@Prohawk: Interesting.

Why do you find that post so suspicious? I mean, is it

that

unlikely that a townie would bid on investigation immune?

1) Honestly, Faraday and I have been talking with Magua for the past couple of days in a hydra QT, but I'm not sure that's a "QT" slip so much as me being incompetent at formatting quotes. I posted BBcode tags in the hydra QT, too.

2) @Muffin: that question was a crosspost, and I didn't see baldeagle had actually answered.

[Lost Butterfly]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

Garuda and upside down, enlighten me with the thought process behind sharing with the town that you <i>didn't</i> get roles. Also, Empire, why do you want <i>neighbourizer</i> in particular to claim?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJA-ING ME.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

One: You're responding to me when you should be asking baldeagle about vote freezer.

Two: I bid $100 on neighborizer as that's all I have.

Three: Garuda hasn't posted yet.

Four: Empire is part of Garuda. I'm the one who wants the neighborizer to claim. It should be pretty self-explanatory. The scum teams can win together. They have the cop role. Once they find each other, they can communicate through a neighborhood. (This is actually pretty certain. Last game it cost me over $500 to win the neighborizer from scum who had won cop and found the other team.) So, the neighborizer needs to claim so that we can evaluate them and keep track of the neighborhood if need be. Last game we were lucky and town won neighborizer both times and we used it really effectively, and we made public who won the neighborizer.

...oh.

Um...I...

...actually...thought your first post...was Garuda.

._______________________________.

Fixed broken quote tag.

[Lost Butterfly]

GODDAMN FUCKING QUOTE TAGS.

[Lost Butterfly]

Why do you find that post so suspicious? I mean, is it that unlikely that a townie would bid on investigation immune?

not directed at me, but while i don't find going for investigation immunity suspicious, i do think that if scum really wanted it, $80 wouldn't be enough to stop them from getting it. and i think you would know this. you never answered upside down's question about why you thought $80 would be enough to stop scum getting it.

Well, gee. I don't know. I guess I just thought $100 was too much to spend on an ability that was useless to me! And I wanted to save some extra money in the long term. We did consider going for $100, but then settled for $80. I'm not really sure what you think the difference between claiming $80 and $100 is. ^_^

I have been in a hydra before, but we don't talk a whole lot.

I talk A LOT with Faraday, but mostly on AIM. But for this game, I've been asking Magua five zillion questions about every single role interaction in the hydra QT.

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Voidedmafia

HAIIII to you too!

Why did you advertise Extra Vote in particular? Also, thoughts on baldeagle's most recent posts?

Hey, Muffin, what's your current read on baldeagle?

[Lost Butterfly]

Pyrotammy, I'd like to write you off as town, because I feel like your intro to this game has been more in keeping with your town self, but the more I think of it, the more your reasons for voting me REALLY bug me. So I'd like answers.

Firstly, "YOU ASKED MAGUA QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GAME. HOW DID YOU NOT REALIZE THAT NEIGHBOURIZER WAS AN AWESOME ROLE" (my questions were more technical ones about how abilities resolve; also, my point with your post was more "Why would you claim to have bid $100?" than "Why ask the neighbourizer to claim?") is a terrible point, but anyway.

I actually am fine with the people voting me because my claim is fishy (although granted, I'm not exactly sure what the

scum

motivation is for claiming to have bid $80 instead of $100, I'm well aware that the way I claimed looked

weird

).

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

Garuda and upside down, enlighten me with the thought process behind sharing with the town that you <i>didn't</i> get roles. Also, Empire, why do you want <i>neighbourizer</i> in particular to claim?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJA-ING ME.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

One: You're responding to me when you should be asking baldeagle about vote freezer.

Two: I bid $100 on neighborizer as that's all I have.

Three: Garuda hasn't posted yet.

Four: Empire is part of Garuda. I'm the one who wants the neighborizer to claim. It should be pretty self-explanatory. The scum teams can win together. They have the cop role. Once they find each other, they can communicate through a neighborhood. (This is actually pretty certain. Last game it cost me over $500 to win the neighborizer from scum who had won cop and found the other team.) So, the neighborizer needs to claim so that we can evaluate them and keep track of the neighborhood if need be. Last game we were lucky and town won neighborizer both times and we used it really effectively, and we made public who won the neighborizer.

Fixed broken quote tag.

Firstly, this was just when people were starting to throw suspicion on me. Secondly, even if you take into account that you didn't realize I'd got Garuda and you mixed up, I just realized that NONE of this is even alignment relevant. The closest thing to an actual "case" is One...and I

am

asking baldeagle about vote freezer in that post, so...huh?

[Lost Butterfly]

what's your current read on baldeagle?

maybe scum. i don't believe the "omg more than 3 scums!??!" thing, all the "misunderstandings" he's had about hthe setup look fake. why are you specifically asking me this?

I actually asked you (and Voidedmafia) this because I thought baldeagle looked really

obviously town

past a certain point (so for the opposite). I'm in agreement that his first post looked like more of a scumslip (and was hoping he'd say something like "I bid $110", since I dunno, he seems kind of clueless), but then he just read as really eager bewildered town. I'll give quotes if someone wants substantiation (this game is moving too quickly, so I'd rather keep it brief). But he clearly does not look like he's part of an informed minority. It's mostly a gut read, but it's a strong gut read. Like I said, I actually LIKE your line of questioning on me, but I didn't like that you weren't picking up on the same things I was re: bald. I feel like this is the kind of VI read scum cling more naturally to.

Voided, if it makes you feel better, you're actually making me feel slightly guilty about my vote on you. But why are you defending me this hard? I'm town, but there's no way you can be sure of it this early; I mean, I've mostly been on the defensive so far and this game has been open for barely an hour, so I haven't even had

time

to do anything that looks all that town.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Well, to add to my recent post, I find Muffin's reasons for suspecting baldeagle plausible.

Hey, BBmolla, why the fuck is your vote on Muffin, particularly since you've been calling multiple other people scum?)

[Lost Butterfly]

By the way, we decided not to advertise last night. Who wants to continue the advertisement claim?

[Lost Butterfly]

Vote Lord Mhork

[Lost Butterfly]

Lost Butterfly why did you choose 80 over 100?

Please stop asking our slot questions. TIA.

Hey upside down, vote lord mhork. I'm a v. good scumhunter.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Well, to add to my recent post, I find Muffin's reasons for suspecting baldeagle plausible.

Hey, BBmolla, why the fuck is your vote on Muffin, particularly since you've been calling multiple other people scum?)

Evil scheme

Or I forgot

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lost Butterfly

Why the profanity

hey mina told me she's town so if you could vote lord mhork that'd be appreciated.

[Lost Butterfly]

I couldn't care less whether or not you LIKE why I find you suspicious. If you know me and If you know my town self, you know that I don't think that early game suspicions have to be awesome and you push where something feels off no matter how small it may be. The first point does look like it's questioning me, so it looks really lazy on your part, and it looks like you're throwing something on me just to do it. But what really caught me as off is the calling me Empire and asking questions of Garuda, who hadn't even posted. You'd also know if you recognize me and my town game that the amount of time I pay attention to early game suspicion by other people is about *-* much, so you can't throw that against me either. It just feels off to me that you're getting all of that confused.

You do realize that my question to you about you asking Magua questions about roles is AFTER I had already voted you. So, are you faulting me for questioning you to try to determine your alignment further? Are you serious? You do understand you're the Mina who in a Westeros game asked the mod every single questions available and trapped scum day one because of that? So, yeah, for me that if you asked Magua a million questions about all the role interactions I do wonder why you didn't understand the neighborizer potential problem. If you meant why I claimed to have bid $100, why didn't you ask that. And I don't know why that's such a problem as that's how much I bid, especially when you came out and claimed how much you bid on your role. So, what's your point again?

OH. MY. GOD.

I know that Neighbourizer is a dangerous role in the hands of scum in this set-up. I really don't need to ask Magua why (and frankly, anyone who DOESN'T know why isn't scum anyway).

My point is, DON'T TELL THE SCUM WHAT POWER ROLE YOU DON'T HAVE.

"Hey, guys, I bid all my money last night, so I didn't get anything!"

That's the equivalent of claiming vanilla.

You could have still asked the neighbourizer to claim without saying that you had personally bid for the same role and lost. And frankly, that seemed really off coming from Empire (you aren't). I claimed investigation immune because it helps the town to know in whose hands the role is (even if the scum know how much money the person in whose hands it is has).

But anyway, I don't see the point in continuing this, unless it's for your own benefit. You obviously believe what you're arguing.

[Lost Butterfly]

someone should neighbourise me : ]

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't feel comfortable doing that, it sounds unethical bbmolla

[Lost Butterfly]

Maybe I should start signing my posts. Do I need to explain which of them are Mina and which are Faraday?

Also, I just realized that I'm a fucking moron. Literally. Explanation coming later.

But anyway, could someone please claim Hitman? Knowing who has it is useful when the protective roles start showing up.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey guys just letting you know I have a town read on 1baldeagle1

[Lost Butterfly]

Four: Empire is part of Garuda. I'm the one who wants the neighborizer to claim. It should be pretty self-explanatory. The scum teams can win together. They have the cop role. Once they find each other, they can communicate through a neighborhood. (This is actually pretty certain. Last game it cost me over $500 to win the neighborizer from scum who had won cop and found the other team.) So, the neighborizer needs to claim so that we can evaluate them and keep track of the neighborhood if need be. Last game we were lucky and town won neighborizer both times and we used it really effectively, and we made public who won the neighborizer.

Fixed broken quote tag.

thanks for the game mechanics explanation tammy we didn't realise fairly sure that makes us confirmed town

[Lost Butterfly]

What if it's the RIGHT thing to do? And you're LEFT with no other option?

wink wink nudge nudge

uh is this a code???

[Lost Butterfly]

Magua: I will be v/la for the weekend for the usual family activities (quadz is taking me to niagra falls)

You will also be v/la from tuesday so please note that

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, it doesn't matter one fig if they know what role I don't have. Last game most people claimed not only what roles they had, but how much money they had. AND HEY guess what??? We won. Like stomped won. Now, I know that Magua made this game less breakable than the last game, but the fundamentals don't matter. I didn't say how much I spent on neighborizer until you asked me, but apparently meant to ask baldeagle how much he spent on vote freezer. You can bid, and win!, more than one role, but it wouldn't matter if I did claim vanilla. If scum have all the important roles, those of you who claimed already narrowed down who is vanilla at this point in time, so what is your point again, because at this point it just looks like you're arguing with me to argue with me. And you look like you're backtracking. "I don't know how important neighborizer is!" "No wait I do It's obvious" "Oh wait thanks for confirming me as town because we didn't know" Which is it?

Wow, this is pretty scummy.

[Lost Butterfly]

What does TIA mean? Why are you being rude? And why can't I ask your slot questions?

you asking me HARD HITTING questions makes me sad

[Lost Butterfly]

You should probably vote me for avoiding your questions, tammy

[Lost Butterfly]

thanks for literally getting the joke.

[Lost Butterfly]

You should probably vote me for avoiding your questions, tammy

You're avoiding my question too you know

Unvote
Vote: Butterfly

Yes, but I'm being polite about it. Which is a town tell.

[Lost Butterfly]

What does TIA mean? Why are you being rude? And why can't I ask your slot questions?

you asking me HARD HITTING questions makes me sad

mhork i'm not going to explain common acronyms too you, please stop pretending you have a sincere interest in trying to determine my alignment it's embarassing

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey guys just letting you know I have a town read on 1baldeagle1

Read yourself in ISO, me. I'm waaaaaaaay ahead of you.

@Muffin: I'm looking at his ISO and not sure there's one specific quote so much as just the overall way he's playing. He could have easily lurked, but instead he's being really active and engaged, and he just

looks

earnest. Like, with the completely out-of-the-blue reference to his ongoing game hydra. And yes, his case on us is, but there; he looks like he's really seen the light and is trying to cheerlead people onto it (here, if you want a quote):

The butterfly wagon needs more motivation, let me convince you all. Brb.

He doesn't exactly strike me as a Fate-style player who revels in pushing false cases as scum.

Also, come on, is he really faking:
Not knowing how money works.
Not knowing the likely team distribution.
Clueless comments about neighbourizer.
Completely spontaneously claiming to have bid on Extra Vote?

One fake-townslip (or scumslip) I can buy, but does he really seem calculated enough to do all of them? And just the completely out-of-the-blue references to his ongoing game hydra.

Muffin, assuming baldeagle is scum, how do you think he would be playing if he

was

town?

~Mina (duh)

[Lost Butterfly]

I said you couldn't ask me questions because I didn't want you to ask me questions.

pedit: dunno, there was one thing he did that seemed kind of townish but I don't know if I know how to read him very well after black flag

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh for fucks sake.

TIA== Thanks In Advance

Um...<_< please don't interfere with my "scumhunting" tia!!!

[Lost Butterfly]

I am fucking amazing. Lord Mhork continuting his robotic line of inquiry like some sort of fucking dog in heat owns.

[Lost Butterfly]

Given how little I'm liking bald's push on them, I'm starting to think they're town. At the very least I don't think they're scum. I like their most recent post as well.

^^ I kinda think this is townish just because I feel like even if it's faulty it was him trying to apply a genuine reason to get a read on us.

[Lost Butterfly]

Do you often randomly latch on to random people and say they're definitively scum? Does that work for you?

I've lynched scum day 1 in my last hundred games in a row, so yes. Therefore statistics say that you are in fact, 100% likely to be scum.

pedit: the muffinmann though I am willing to converse in depth about many things with you upside down

[Lost Butterfly]

I bidded $20 on it. I tried to go for cop as well, but I didn't win it. (I spent $40 on cop). I didn't want to spend too much money.

P-Edit: No, scum will kill the neighborzier.

uwop, we all can be in a quicktopic if we wanted to, so I doubt that's a scumslip.... but, scum would need to talk more, so they use the tags more....

Damn guys, get your quote tags right.

Wow, this is pretty scummy.

How?

You should probably vote me for avoiding your questions, tammy

You're avoiding my question too you know

Unvote
Vote: Butterfly

[Lost Butterfly]

Agree w/ Mina those are all good posts she quoted

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh you're one of those players >.>

Why are you interacting w/ me in a manner which suggests you think i'm town

[Lost Butterfly]

I think you're scummy tammy, stop twisting what i'm saying I wrote out my own post i now what i wrote MISREP

[Lost Butterfly]

i don't understand why you don't think his ignorance is sincere, he seems kind of an idiot

[Lost Butterfly]

@Lost Butterfly:
I don't think you're town. I think you're an asshole. And your assholeness is getting in the way of me trying to figure out your alignment. Usually when I lynch an asshole, he flips town, but you seem like the kind of guy who's an asshole town or scum. So I'm gonna wait to see what you do while I pursue other people. Like Seanald who I remember being fairly transparent as scum.

okay thanks for the heads up i actually won an award for most enjoyable player last year and am in fact beloved by many so i can only conclude that you must be scum for not finding me enjoyable

[Lost Butterfly]

you couldn't even tell me and mina apart fos pyro

[Lost Butterfly]

And you look like you're backtracking. "I don't know how important neighborizer is!" "No wait I do It's obvious" "Oh wait thanks for confirming me as town because we didn't know" Which is it?

^^^ obligatory reminder you actually posted this in a mafia game tammy and thus are very scummy

[Lost Butterfly]

No I just don't enjoy people telling me when I can or cannot speak with them. You're not even pushing a real case. You're just saying my posts are bad and that I'm scum.

I'm probably going to get you lynched unless you change my mind so I think I'm doing okay?

[Lost Butterfly]

fardy you're an asshole just deal with it and leave britney alone

:[ plz don't vig me this time

[Lost Butterfly]

Tammy is very sassy :[

[Lost Butterfly]

hey do you guys wanna lynch lord mhork with me i promise to vote ur top read tomorrow and am not lying

[Lost Butterfly]

Did you type that with a straight face, just curious.

[Lost Butterfly]

god I don't even know actually

[Lost Butterfly]

hey can you sign your posts garuda?

[Lost Butterfly]

Um...ignore my last post of random quotes, please. I hit submit accidentally before commenting on the quotes. And the baldeagle ones were on my clipboard from before. My point was basically that this is a terrible, horrible reason for a vote. Also, your scum reads (baldeagle, Voidedmafia, Lost Butterfly) all line up perfectly with the people who were getting heat, whereas I think town would be prone to falling into a camp. Care to elaborate on why bald-Voided-LB are your scumreads? Or why Pyro and Muffin are town? Your list feels cribbed from everyone else's.

I think I need to take a break from posting and touch base with Faraday for a bit, because we've been posting almost completely independently so far.

Tammy...I...I really can't tell. Do you...not...realize at

all

that Faraday is trolling you? Like, at

all

? You just seem completely oblivious.

Also, in all fairness, I checked my opening post, and I did say something like "Why neighbourizer in particular?" I mean, honestly, I was surprised that the winning bid on neighbourizer was $100. So I see your point that I was downplaying it; like, yes, it's dangerous in the hands of scum who are really lucky in whom they target, but it's really only situationally useful. I was thinking other roles (Deadline, Hitman, etc.) were more dangerous. I still think your trying to find scum motivation in that is silly, though.

~Mina

[Lost Butterfly]

Given how little I'm liking bald's push on them, I'm starting to think they're town. At the very least I don't think they're scum. I like their most recent post as well.

^^ I kinda think this is townish just because I feel like even if it's faulty it was him trying to apply a genuine reason to get a read on us.

really? i had the complete opposite reaction to this. it looks like him making up a reason and not thinking about it from a town perspective (he should know it's faulty logic).

i don't understand why you don't think his ignorance is sincere, he seems kind of an idiot

the sheer volume of it. it reminds me of other times i've seen it done and overplayed. take, for example, neil's ISO in this game. multiple posts at the beginning of the game, faking ignorance of the setup.

i don't understand why you're writing it off as sincere.

I think it's a reason that's valid in most games, I don't think town always modify how they scumhunt in multi ball (or psuedo multiball).

i'm writing it off as sincere cos I think it is? I mean I think I'm pretty good at judging sincerity and I haven't actually read any of his posts but i'd be surprised if he was scum? i mean okay, i've seen scum fake stupid shit before like cooldog in good versus evil but it feels more like him just being purposefully clueless about the whole game which I find fairly easy to sympathise with

[Lost Butterfly]

Tammy...I...I really can't tell. Do you...not...realize at all that Faraday is trolling you? Like, at all? You just seem completely oblivious.

huh!!?

[Lost Butterfly]

By "last post of random quotes," I mean...the one of Harakiri and bald posts with no context. Which will make no sense anymore. Because I've been ninja'd 100 times, 50 of which were by my own account.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJAING ME.

I'VE HIT SUBMIT LIKE FIVE TIMES ALREADY.

~Mina

[Lost Butterfly]

it's fucking stupid. it's faulty logic, and if you were actually town you'd know this.

this seems really naive of you to think that?

a players logic doesn't get more dumb with a scum pm

[Lost Butterfly]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mhork

(Well, to add to my recent post, I find Muffin's reasons for suspecting baldeagle plausible.

Hey, BBmolla, why the fuck is your vote on Muffin, particularly since you've been calling multiple other people scum?)

Evil scheme

Or I forgot

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lost Butterfly

Why the profanity

Mina you guys left or right scum?

Mina you seem way too panicked this game.

Can we please stop with broken quote tags? That's really, really obnoxious and it's not terribly difficult to prevent.

PEDIT:
I like your thinking muffinman.

VOTE: lost butterfly

^Opposite team scum found.

2easy

[Lost Butterfly]

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/SNBBu3DhwNabq should answer any q's about last time

[Lost Butterfly]

OMIGOD.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. I'm so sorry. That was obviously Mina. I keep hitting Submit instead of Reply when I multiquote posts!

Anyway, BBmolla, I know you said you suspect both Mhork and us of being on different teams, but I feel like you followed Faraday's vote onto Mhork

way

too easily. All it took was a bit of Faraday charming you. Also, you never explained the Muffin vote; that felt completely out of left field at the time.

[Lost Butterfly]

is this how you make cases now? you just quote someone's iso?

no you link to it mina is in fact a scrub

pedit: I feel like I am pretty charming so that is okay? I told a drunk girl a fact about zoology at at the improv club today!

[Lost Butterfly]

thank you for posting that. I was just looking back to show that the scum team did have a qt for money talks.

No problem, in return I want your cat

(just kidding ew)

[Lost Butterfly]

it's called pancake.

i'm hungry now and going to eat! <_<

[Lost Butterfly]

Okay, fuck it.

I wanted to wait until tomorrow morning when everyone had checked in, but since I realized I made a mistake in the plan (it's completely my fault and not Faraday's, since he was away when the thread opened), there's no upside to continuing this.

I retract the investigative immune claim.

[Lost Butterfly]

harakiri do you plan to flake @ any stage during this game?

[Lost Butterfly]

So something Faraday has done before was claim miller just to see if a real miller would counterclaim him, and then retract it. We decided to run with something similar here.

In this game, it has less utility (since we know what roles in the game, and anyone could counter us), but we thought that if we claimed to have won something antitown, we could possibly get someone to look really town by their reaction (or possibly give away knowing outside information).

For a while, I was debating between claiming Hitman and Investigation Immune. At first, we wanted Hitman, because we thought a scum investigation immune player would be more likely to counterclaim us. (Before we got our role PMs, we'd considered a scum strategy would be to bid on investigation immunity, claim it to look town, and then transfer it to a teammate and give him cop protection). Hitman is more likely something scum wouldn't claim--particularly since WE look scummy if a NK goes through that shouldn't have.

But then I thought about it, and realized we should choose Inv. Immune for the opposite reason. Town will almost certainly claim either Hitman or Scum. But scum is much more likely to claim Investigation Immune than Hitman for town cred. So if

we

claim Investigation Immune (and scum has it), they go, "Score! They're probably on the other Mafia Faction and signalling to us!" Or capitalize on the confusion and say nothing. So the object was also to reduce the chance of

scum

claiming inv. immune (and then passing it on). (Actually, now I just realized that it might have been better to let them claim it and be held accountable. OOPS.)

HOWEVER, my major mistake in the plan: not accounting for the fact that scum are confirmed to have cop right now. I'd thought of this before seeing the auction results, and didn't take into account the fact that the investigation immune role is no longer even a

threat

to town when the scum have cop.

So...long story short: I should have claimed Hitman.

Part of why I liked the people who were attacking us for being fake was that they were

right

. My claim did read as phony, because it was. (Honestly, I just threw in the part about $80 on a whim, although I think it's a terrible argument that you'd have to risk ALL your money on something on D1.) Of course...another explanation is that the people who thought I was lying

knew

it, if their buddy had the role. But then why wouldn't they leave me alone, given that each faction wants the other to survive?

Bottom line: if it's a scum role, then I feel like the people attacking me for my claim were at most on the faction that doesn't have it.

In retrospect, I probably could have waited until tomorrow for everyone to give opinions and get more reactions. At the very least, the person who counterclaimed me would've been town. But this was a distraction, and I felt guilty when I read this:

2) Negative utility items (such as investigation immunity, deadline, etc) should be claimed immediately if won by town (and it’s not impossible to outright win one, the N0 Night Kill went for only $31 last game for example). Failure to do so will be considered to have been won by scum. I don't want any dumb lolgambits on this front (this means you, Cabd). This is non-negotiable. If you’re town and do something stupid on this front, my hatred of you will follow you like a shroud for the rest of your days.

[Lost Butterfly]

wow

[Lost Butterfly]

Faramina*

[Lost Butterfly]

I should add to my last wall that Faraday is actually suspicious of Muffin right now, though. He finds his reasons for pushing Voided to be very mechanical and crappy. And quite a few of my suspects were people who were pushing us, so eh.

To be honest, I'm really not caught up right now (it takes so long to respond that I'm missing a lot of what's going on in the thread). I voted Voided earlier because I didn't like his big quote strip wall or buddying us; I then got some okay vibes from him but didn't change (and then Faraday changed his vote without asking me).

preview-edit: is no one reading my posts at all? My reveal barely drew crickets, just lots of fluff about breakfast cereals.

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: by "didn't change" I mean, "didn't read him closely afterwards."

[Lost Butterfly]

what more do you want us to say? "I see what you were trying for? That was dumb don't do it again."

I don't know. Attention? Flowers? A gold star? Verbal abuse?

An answer to why you claimed not to have won anything in your first post?

[Lost Butterfly]

He finds his reasons for pushing Voided to be very mechanical and crappy.

what does he think my reasons are?

the ones w/r/t his reasoning for fnding us town

sorry i alt slipped

~mina

[Lost Butterfly]

okay!

[Lost Butterfly]

probably should read the post to see why she dropped it

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't really think the gambits are particularly similar, mine was well thought out + owned

[Lost Butterfly]

If someone gets Neighborized N1, then I think it's more likely that the slot with that power is town.

(You probably should have at least not revealed that, since it's at least a vaguely subtle role interaction that might not be thought of)

I'd also say the neighbouriser just claiming day 2 is effectively the same as day 1, anyway. I don't think I'd be wanting to claim neighbouriser if I had it, for instance.

[Lost Butterfly]

what's your current read on voided?

it's probably very similar to the last time you asked

[Lost Butterfly]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

[Lost Butterfly]

yeah

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't believe you think this.

i'd ask you to explain the disadvantages of waiting but I don't think you actually can

Possibly. I just think that part of what helped us win the last game was transparency in the town. I don't see why the neighborizer is going yo instantly die, it's not that powerful of a role in the hands of town.

and that's kind of not true, depending on if it gets lucky with a neighbourise or whatever. the only advantage of having the neighbouriser claim today is...we know who the neighbouriser is and can judge their targets. if they claim tomorrow we can do the exact same thing and they've stayed hidden for a night. if scum have it they're probably not going to be willing to claim it either way (or are, and this won't change depending on when we make them claim)

[Lost Butterfly]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

[Lost Butterfly]

oh, I see what you mean. yeah I guess it's the fact that he's initially "nah, not scum" whereas I found mhork's interactions with me + insistence I answer his questions before that kind of bad + I don't think the way he's responding to me is how you treat someone you think is scum

[Lost Butterfly]

are you clinically fucking retarded or can you just not read?

[Lost Butterfly]

I DON'T THINK YOU BELIEVE THIS

WELL I DO

NU UH

okay

[Lost Butterfly]

<here are reasons for why i don't think it matters and in fact there may even be an advantage for claiming day 2>

<I AM TAMMY AND I CANNOT READ>

im attacking ur literacy are you mad?

[Lost Butterfly]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

[/quote]

[Lost Butterfly]

would you like me to define the words in the sentence one by one so you can understand why i compared the two?

[Lost Butterfly]

sorry my mom is calling me 2 bed. better get my beauty sleep. night tammy, if you've anymore qs for us be sure to PM them to magua

[Lost Butterfly]

????

plz quote where i said i expected them to respond the same or if that was an actual relevant thing

[Lost Butterfly]

FARADAY AND TAMMY. BOTH OF YOU STOP IT.

[Lost Butterfly]

<here are reasons for why i don't think it matters and in fact there may even be an advantage for claiming day 2>

<I AM TAMMY AND I CANNOT READ>

im attacking ur literacy are you mad?

Nope I actually think it's pretty sad that you have to insult people but hey that's you. Hope you feel better for it.

rip my dignity

[Lost Butterfly]

????

plz quote where i said i expected them to respond the same or if that was an actual relevant thing

bump

[Lost Butterfly]

lmfao

[Lost Butterfly]

????

plz quote where i said i expected them to respond the same or if that was an actual relevant thing

bump

bump

[Lost Butterfly]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

Here faraday. I would expect you to recognize that there are player differences, and this is looking like you're not taking that into account.

Well, I feel like if it looks like that you should read it again.

[Lost Butterfly]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

Okay, that doesn';t actually say that, or imply that so I can only conclude you have a dirty computer screen that can't let you read my posts.

[Lost Butterfly]

JUST. STOP. INTERACTING. WITH. HER. FARADAY.

Frankly, I'm finding it annoying to have every sentence be twisted to be in bad faith, too, and I've literally spent the past half-hour starting posts in response to particularly egregious misrepresentations that I force myself to delete, but that doesn't mean personal attacks are called for. Moreover, THIS IS A COMPLETE FUCKING DISTRACTION THAT DOESN'T HELP FIND SCUM.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm going to bed, but quick strategy thoughts:

1) What do people think about a mass-advertisement claim (which we use to find out how much money is on each ability), and then a coordinated advertisement campaign? I originally wanted just to claim

what

we'd bid on, so scum wouldn't know how to stop it, but maybe each town can pledge to pay a certain amount so that abilities aren't lost. The obvious caveat is that scum know by how much to outbid us, though. But something like, "These two players are responsible for advertising however much they want on these three abilities, these players for advertising these ones," etc. Is that more trouble than it's worth?

2)

*pokes Tammy with a stick*

To be honest, I'm sick of Neighbourizers right now. What's the obsession with them being so dangerous? I actually think it's a protown power in this set-up (although it becomes strongly proscum in really specific instances). You can transfer money with a town read, plan gambits, claim role information, buy abilities, etc. Meanwhile, if scum have neighbourizer, then there's nothing we can do about it to stop them communicating with the other team. It's not something like Investigation Immune that we can plan around. Garuda's plan of having the neighboree claim D2 is a good compromise, but that doesn't stop scum from just using the second shot to neighbourize a partner.

3) @Empire: I was thinking "This is a list of townies and this is a list of not-townies. These not-townies must send money to the townies every night, but don't claim which one. Afterwards, if the townies a certain not-townie claims to have sent money to keep winding up dead, not-townie starts looking fishy." I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

The next couple of days will be mostly Mina posting, so expect shittier reads and fewer votes!

[Lost Butterfly]

Will be busy most of the day to a family function, but when I get back, I want to go through the list of Not Yet Advertised abilities and break down which ones town should be going for. (Also, nope, baldeagle, not claiming what I actually bid on nor what I won.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, Zdenek is town (both because of the claims and how he seems more gleeful and spontaneous than his more robotic scum meta). Other town reads I'm getting are Pyro, Garuda (although this would be more solid if they'd done more scumhunting, the way they're approaching the strategizing feels like a town PoV), and baldeagle (although his last big post I didn't like as much). I have a weaker one on upside down based solely on tone and them seeming really relaxed. I'll get back to you on scum reads later.

[Lost Butterfly]

That's actually

great

news. Scum just blew what was one of the most dangerous abilities in the game on D1, so later on, when it's more important to coordinate actions, we can strategize uninterrupted. And this also leaves the door wide open for us to use Wage Freeze.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, if anything, a seventy-two hour D1 is more protown than scum, given the posting rate.

[Lost Butterfly]

UNVOTE: Lord Mhork

Hope Faraday doesn't mind (he's away in Niagara Falls), but I'm extremely uncomfortable being on this wagon now.

[Lost Butterfly]

Heh. I'm comforted to know precisely what his win condition is.

what do you think of mork?
i think it's a much better wagon than your voided thing

Were you aware that your slot was voting Voidedmafia for most of the game before this?

Also, was your "I like this" in response to Mhork's claim? What are your current thoughts on Mhork?

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: BBmolla

[Lost Butterfly]

(EBWOP: I apparently can't read. I'm still confused by your post, though. You like it, but you still feel okay about voting him? Could you elaborate, please?)

[Lost Butterfly]

That said...

Yeah I was trying to read quickly 'cause I saw the motion for 'hey guise lynch Mhork' so I think that's slightly more important.

I'm not scum. Also look at where the suspicion was when the deadline thing was popped. If I were scum, why on earth would I suddenly put a deadline hounding down especially with Lost Butterfly hounding me like he's got a guilty. The alternative is that the other scum team is trying to get me lynched, but since this is semi-multiball that implies that they want Lost Butterfly/BBMolla to get me strung up today. If they thought I were a possible scum ally, why would they do that? More likely they see an easy mislynch opportunity because Butterfly is tunneling me into oblivion.

<snip>

I don't even know why this wagon on me is a thing except for Lost Butterfly and his confirmation bias and I don't think I can actually win the argument against him before he forces my mislynch.

The actual early claim, complaints of powerlessness against a more charismatic player, and outrage over being mislynched I liked. But leaving aside that the scum half with deadline probably didn't give two tosses to your alignment (and if they suspect you, they might be pushing for a Voided wagon instead), why are you interacting with us as though you think we're misguided town? You apparently have a scum read on us...which you haven't reevaluated despite the fact that your vote was essentially parroting Muffin

et al

on my vote being fake...when we've outright admitted since that it was fake. But you keep talking about how we're

so stuck in confirmation bias.

We're doing the job of scum

for them

. So apparently, you think there's actual conviction behind our read. That's leaving aside that I don't really think we were tunneling on you (although granted, Faraday was using lots of rhetoric, and the target of a case is more likely to feel unfairly maligned).

Also, why are you singling out us

and BBmolla

on your wagon? Lots and lots of people suspect you; us, I understand, but BBmolla's push hasn't been very forceful or persuasive (it's literally "Mhork is on the opposite scumteam as LB...sure, okay, LB, I'll vote Mhork with you!"), and no one is sheeping him on Mhork here (no offence, BBmolla).

Garuda, why do you think ProHawk is town? He's a suspect of mine, and although his ISO wasn't as bad as I remembered, he's definitely not

townish

. (Preview-edit: ninja'd by Garuda.)

[Lost Butterfly]

...EBWOP: ninja'd by Morph.

I feel like the site rules against editing posts should be waived in my case.

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP:

You apparently have a scum read on us...which you haven't reevaluated despite the fact that your vote was essentially parroting Muffin et al on my vote being fake...when we've outright admitted since that it was fake.

asfaisoghsidhgsipodghiuagshdgiuIDSHGIHDSIPHAPFDsdghsdguishdgiusdhg

...which you haven't reevaluated despite the fact that your vote yadda yadda on my

claim sounding

fake.

This is actually getting pretty ridiculous.

Oh, I like this Mhork post:

@Lost Butterfly:
I don't think you're town. I think you're an asshole. And your assholeness is getting in the way of me trying to figure out your alignment. Usually when I lynch an asshole, he flips town, but you seem like the kind of guy who's an asshole town or scum. So I'm gonna wait to see what you do while I pursue other people. Like Seanald who I remember being fairly transparent as scum.

Can you explain why exactly you thought this, though:

Oh wow that's actually a really good point. Pyro just jumped up, like, three town notches for me.

This is the post from Pyro, and it's really, really banal (not to mention untrue):

I bidded $20 on it. I tried to go for cop as well, but I didn't win it. (I spent $40 on cop). I didn't want to spend too much money.

P-Edit: No, scum will kill the neighborzier.

Why would they? Scum are going to kill the most town person no matter what their role.

======================
BBmolla, a response to my questions on you from before would be nice.

[Lost Butterfly]

We also lost the bid for neighborizer.

Why did you and Empire decide to claim to have lost it now?

We got Investigation Immune! I can't believe it was so cheap. We even bid $80 on it to keep it out of scum's hands.

Why didn't you go for Neighborizer?

I take it you read ahead by now?

I liked Molla being aggressive with Mina early.

My read is pending on how he answers a few things, but what I don't like is that he dropped it really quickly and hopped onto Mhork. I know he was calling Mhork a member of the other scumteam, but the way the vote change went down read as though Faraday sweet-talked him onto the wagon. Even if he did really suspect Mhork, I'd have expected more resistance to being charmed by his other top scumread.

Also, I'm not sure what reaction he was expecting from me as either alignment (he should know I don't fold easily to stuff like that as scum). And, if anything, my frame of mind when I wrote the post he called nervous was completely relaxed; I knew everything would be cleared up once I claimed, and I'm used to drawing early wagons that dissipate quickly because of my wacky early-D1 scumhunting style.

Also also, his last two posts struck me as fluffy, and not in a bumbling spontaneous BBmolla town way ("Omigod, there was a traitor who's immune to cops...in a completely different set-up! Never mind that there's no indication any of the Marketplace games had a traitor. This is a useful contribution to the strategy discussion.")

[Lost Butterfly]

Like Mhurk Wagon, don't like Voided wagon. Mainly focused on sorting Cabd/ffery, Nacho/Empire, and Zmuffin right now.

I'm half paying attention to the thread--letting Sakura handle it until Pokemon Fever dies down.

Whatever happened to your suspicions of us (and baldeagle and Voidedmafia)? Also, why are you AVOIDING MY QUESTIONS here:

Wow, this is pretty scummy.

How?

You should probably vote me for avoiding your questions, tammy

You're avoiding my question too you know

Unvote
Vote: Butterfly

Um...ignore my last post of random quotes, please. I hit submit accidentally before commenting on the quotes. And the baldeagle ones were on my clipboard from before. My point was basically that this is a terrible, horrible reason for a vote. Also, your scum reads (baldeagle, Voidedmafia, Lost Butterfly) all line up perfectly with the people who were getting heat, whereas I think town would be prone to falling into a camp. Care to elaborate on why bald-Voided-LB are your scumreads? Or why Pyro and Muffin are town? Your list feels cribbed from everyone else's.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi LostButterfly!

Read context clues better to figure out how to read this hydra's head!

Here's a secret: only one of us two is actively playing Pokemon right now.

Um...

Have...you guys...been talking about the game...

...

at all

?

*twitch*

I don't suppose you could ask Head Who's Not Playing Pokemon (Sakura?) to respond to my last post and explain the progression of her reads, please? Also, are the self-vote and the post about morph, Muffin, and Zdenek the only one you (Nati?) have made? Why do you want to focus on those three players in particular?

To lost butterfly, I enjoyed the post from pyro regarding the fact you would go for the whole hundred of you were actually purchasing to keep it out of scum hands. That inconsistency made sense to me.

Except Pyro never said that. Whose post did you read and think was Pyro's?

Also, do you have any thoughts on me accusing you of behaving as though you believed our push on you was genuine?

[Lost Butterfly]

@Muffin: You're probably not going to get much more in-depth reasons from Faraday than he's already given, but I can explain the reasons why I was

fine

with that vote. It was a combination of the timing of his stances and shift onto our wagon (he acted as though he was on the fence, but then waited until there was momentum our way), his parroting of other people's suspicions (for example, when he was the THIRD person to ask us about our HTML tags), the buddying up to Tammy for a pretty banal point (apparently, he meant to say someone else was town, but let me check something), and some of the filler questions/posts he made.

What are your thoughts on Mhork?

Probably vote Nacho again soon.

Why Nacho?

VOTE: BBmolla

I hope there's an explanation for this coming up.

My read is pending on how he answers a few things, but what I don't like is that he dropped it really quickly and hopped onto Mhork. I know he was calling Mhork a member of the other scumteam, but the way the vote change went down read as though Faraday sweet-talked him onto the wagon. Even if he did really suspect Mhork, I'd have expected more resistance to being charmed by his other top scumread.

Also, I'm not sure what reaction he was expecting from me as either alignment (he should know I don't fold easily to stuff like that as scum). And, if anything, my frame of mind when I wrote the post he called nervous was completely relaxed; I knew everything would be cleared up once I claimed, and I'm used to drawing early wagons that dissipate quickly because of my wacky early-D1 scumhunting style.

Also also, his last two posts struck me as fluffy, and not in a bumbling spontaneous BBmolla town way ("Omigod, there was a traitor who's immune to cops...in a completely different set-up! Never mind that there's no indication any of the Marketplace games had a traitor. This is a useful contribution to the strategy discussion.")

...hmmm

I don't think that's really worth a vote at the moment?

Um...isn't the definition of vote-worthy early in D1 "anything you find suspicious"? Are you defending BBmolla, do you disagree with anything I said, or are you agreeing with my suspicions but suggesting I should vote someone else?

Oh, another question for you. How much of the posting has been N and how much Quilford?

=================================================
Preview-edit: ProHawk, even leaving aside that your point makes no sense in quasi-multiball (if he wasn't on my team, I'd have no idea if he's town

unless I'm baldeagle according to Voidedmafia

):

1) I

outright said

in that big post that I think scum would be much less likely to claim Hitman than investigation immune, because you're outed if ONE person goes, "I doc-protected this guy who died anyway."
2) I think Zdenek-scum gets enough town cred just from claiming one of the two abilities. In his shoes, I'd claim investigation immune (particularly with a scum cop) but keep my mouth shut about Hitman.
3) Honestly, it just

read

genuine. It's the "bitches" that did it for me.
4) This is more for MD, but meta is one of the most powerful scumhunting tools out there if it's used correctly. There are certain players who are literally impossible to read without meta, but become easy to read with it.

[Lost Butterfly]

(In all fairness, though, I didn't really think that hard about most of that stuff at the time--I was checking the thread on my phone and just had an instinctive "Oh, he looks town" to Zdenek's posts.)

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't disagree with you on the alignment of Zdenek. I am concerned that you didn't even blink twice with all of your theorizing about Hitman and Investigative Immune being used by scum to gain town-cred.

Fair enough. But why did you deliberately not bold the last part of my sentence about scum being much more likely to claim investigative immune

than hitman

? Shouldn't the fact that he claimed Hitman have been relevant?

What's this supposed to mean?!

Aren't you the one who got in trouble for implying you thought I was town because baldeagle was scum and attacking me? To be honest, at this point, I'm skimming the walls between you and eagle, because I'm a terrible person.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Garuda: ohhh! I like your neighbourizer plan.

My only worry is I'm not sure how feasible it is to organize town blocs today given the short deadline and how many people have barely posted (and aren't the most reliable people to count on to submit money). I prefer just suggesting what abilities should be advertised.

On a side note, it's weird how wacky most of the claimed advertisements have been.

(In other news, I kind of like Voidedmafia now, but I don't really have anything stronger than "gut", so should probably make an effort to solidify this read now that he's the leading wagon.)

p-edit: Garuda, didn't you claim to have advertised nothing before?

p-edit2: ProHawk, if it makes you feel better, I don't like my gambit now, either.

[Lost Butterfly]

is it really really banal Mina? Is it. I would like to know how often as town you decide to underhandedly discredit the points of people you are town reading. You know for a fact scum don't always just kill someone because of a role. They often kill who the most town person is or who is a threat, so reducing it to a role based on paranoia isn't actually accurate.

OMIGOD.

OH.

MY.

FUCKING.

GOD.

Excuse me. I think I'm going to bash my head against a wall for the next thirty minutes.

Discrediting you.

Discrediting

you. That post had nothing whatsoever to do with you, my opinion of your alignment, or my assessment of your skills as a Mafia player. It was just a very ordinary observation that Mhork had an overblown reaction to, and his posts looked like buddying.

And what made you think he was responding to that statement. That would be a ridiculous statement to give a townread for. Not only that but the time stamps are in the same exact minute. When he made that post I thought he was referring to my post a couple up in which I pointed out that since scum have cop they could use neighborizer to coordinate with each other if they found each other.

yes, how SCUMMY of me for not looking at the time stamps and realizing that no one could have written a one-line post in a minute

He's claimed it was that you said our bidding $80 instead of $100 was suspicious (which you never did, so maybe he's misreading something?).

[Lost Butterfly]

Seriously, there is something fishy here.

I was wagoned by you in

A Dance with Dragons

on Day One. Your reactions there were completely different. It felt like you were seriously evaluating my alignment, you were questioning me on things, you were giving in-depth reasons for suspecting me, you were commenting on other people's cases/defences on us and giving corroborating evidence from my meta...

You know what's a sign that there's a problem? My read on Pyrotechnics is, "I'd think they're town, but they suspect us for braindead reasons." Literally. That is why I'm paranoid of you now. There is no more depth to it than that. No, the pieces for Pyrotechnics-scum don't actually fit, because their neighbourizer thing is protown, and I really don't see Tammy attacking us this hard as town. But I don't care. Your posts do not make sense right now. Because that's how terrible your case is.

Your reasons for suspecting us are so, so, SO bad that I don't know how you can post them with a straight face.

It's not even like the paranoid meta thing you did with Gert in the slow game where you had semi-legitimate reasons for suspecting her and were caught up in your emotions for valid reasons. Your reasons for suspecting us keep changing. You are literally just quoting every post we make and finding a way to misrepresent it in the most contrived, over-the-top way. And then when caught doing it, you don't even bat an eyelash. "Oh my God. You're so SCUMMY for comparing these two players today." *quotes a post where morph FUCKING ASKS US to compare said two players* "So what's your point?" Have you been really, really drunk for every single post you've made this entire game?

Not once have you so much as reevaluated us (after our unclaim, after my posts today). The closest thing was when I posted strategy...which actually, wasn't a town tell at all, since anyone can post strategy. And I mean, do you really think you're going to get strategy instead of trolling from

Faraday

? I'd have expected something like long and reasoned evaluations on our posts, questions on my reads, or trademark town!Tammy waffling. Not...whatever this is. (Frankly, the overdefensive way you're handling questions about your opinions on neighbourizer is also similar to how you handled attacks on your opening posts in the BSG game. Also, why is Syryana not posting?)

And now you're going to respond to this post with several paragraphs about how I should know your meta, and it's REALLY suspicious that I'm discrediting, when shouldn't I have played enough with you to know that THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY, DAMMIT, YOU JUST LOOK FOR SOMETHING THAT'S OFF. And I also know this exchange is completely unproductive. But you know what? I felt better writing it. So ha!

Also, I'm sorry if this is overly harsh, Tammy, and I still like you and respect you a lot as a Mafia player. So I really don't want to offend you. But this is honestly straining credulity right now.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm too tired to give a more substantial response to Tammy, but if you'd said all this in the first place, Faraday and I would have been a lot less tetchy in response.

Frankly, sometimes I feel like I'm in a never-ending arms race between my scum and town game when I play with people I know well. I can't look obvtown every second. I can't always have a breaking strategy or concern myself with appearances or be attentive to every single detail in the thread or always be emotional/spontaneous/whatever it is "town Mina" sounds like. And after a certain point, there's only so much I can up the ante by. There isn't anything I can do to defend against a case like that other than say, "Well, yeah, I

can

fake my town meta decently sometimes. So I guess...just be lucky I got a town PM?"

The woes of being a sociopath.

I also think you're overrating my skill as town. You said I have overblown expectations of you--don't you think the reverse is true if you're attacking me for not having broken the entire game in twenty-four hours? (I mean, I'm perfectly happy with the ratio of scumhunting-to-theory-discussion I've done this game.)

Faraday can answer the thing about Voidedmafia and Lord Mhork himself, since I don't think I've played much with Voided and am not sure of his skill level.

I'm curious to know why Syryana is scumreading us, though. He doesn't know anything about our scum meta.

@Mhork: our push on you was real. If we're talking about the same thing, then I was asking why you were calling us scum but also seemed to believe we had actual conviction in our push on you. I'm also kind of curious to why you decided to single out BBmolla on your wagon. Beyond that, that's it.

@upside down: we decided not to advertise anything, which was a mistake.

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, I'm going to bed, but just want to say I liked this paragraph from Mhork:

@Butterfly: I...could have sworn that Pyro had said something along the lines of why would you bid $80 rather than $100 for an item if it was just to keep it out of scum's hands. To me that made perfect sense and I was waiting for you to answer it. Digging back through those posts, apparently I managed to cross upside's "Did you think $80 would be enough to keep it from scum?" and something from Pyro, I think the post where they say that they put $100 on neighborizer. Also are you saying your push on me wasn't real? It sure felt real from my perspective.

P-edit: that was a crosspost. No one's going to follow you there, Mhork.

[Lost Butterfly]

</being a dick to fulfill my win condition of being a jester>

Actually, I just ISO'd Zdenek, and he's not as town as I remembered.

Also, I think everyone should claim if they advertised or what they advertised on. Not the actual amount.

medium

Why did you advertise medium of all the roles on the list?

Same goes for upside down. If you were going to choose two roles to advertise, Cop makes sense for one, but why medium for the other? Also, I asked you about Nacho before because that's a really odd scum read for this point of the game. Instead of brushing me off, can you elaborate on why you were even considering a Garuda vote?

p-edit: just replace "crosspost" with "ninja'd" and it'll make sense.

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Hermy

More later.

[Lost Butterfly]

Man, I've always wanted to do that.

Mind meld!

Can people hurry up and finish claiming their advertisements before the day is over? We can't plan who should advertise what if we don't know which roles are most vulnerable to being eliminated.

Now I'm really gone for the next while.

[Lost Butterfly]

But you know I did elaborate on the point I was making to Faraday about the comparison between Mhork and Voided. here here and here which I guess it was just more fun to insult me and make fun of me

pretty much

[Lost Butterfly]

but yes the next time i'll make it clear by posting THESE ARE DIFFERENT PLAYERS AND I DO NOT EXPECT THEM TO REACT IDENTICALLY HOWEVER THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT DIFFERENT REACTIONS CAN NOT GIVE ME DIFFERENT READS ON THEIR RESPECTIVE ALIGNMENTS

i'm sorry for the communication breakdown!

[Lost Butterfly]

But yes, I'm a dick at times shock horror.

(mina get on AIM)

[Lost Butterfly]

His second post is pretty much the case mhork, there's nothing "formal", but you should read it and vote him I guess because Mina is!

[Lost Butterfly]

Why Harakiri over Hermy?

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, Hermy's wagon seems a bit rushed. I dun liek it.

There's 1 and a half days till deadline? There won't be a lynch that isn't "rushed" by mafiascum standards. You should live a little.

[Lost Butterfly]

I wouldn't characterise voided as a strong player tammy, he was pretty easy to mislynch in black flag because he has the kind of wall of text style that I'm pretty sure no one reads.

[Lost Butterfly]

eh

^^^ sorry mr moderator that was me aka mina

[Lost Butterfly]

Well Hermy has a scummy post, whereas I think your points against Hirakari are kind of bad?

[Lost Butterfly]

i mean the self vote is literally the nullest thing possible

[Lost Butterfly]

I mean I had basicaally no opinon on them before I read your case and now I think I find them town because of it because when you laid it out like that it just seems kind of generic. I mean, I guess that's not a problem but when I read them and see the context of how they're doing those things I don't find it very convincing. The baltant sheeping of nacho doesn't roam too far from what I expect for players I don't consider particularly strong, at the very least they blatantly came out and admitted it which I find at least mildly townish.

also think the seanald wagon is dumb

[Lost Butterfly]

i mean the self vote is literally the nullest thing possible

Not from my experience.

well he self votes every game regardless of his alignment, so.

[Lost Butterfly]

Well, I assumed neighborizer wasn't popular, so we advertised it and went all-in on getting it. Sadly, 90 was not enough. Who would have thought Neighborizer so popular...

^^ I didn't really like this on an ISO admittedly because it seemed...slimy? it sounded kinda fake

[Lost Butterfly]

Actually more than a single person will understand it, the "Nacho knows why" Is a reference to how I always sheep Nacho on D1.

I meanI certainly don't find this type of vote disavowal scummy?

[Lost Butterfly]

???

Are you a robot or something? If she does actually do this in every game then how can it possibly be actually scummy?

[Lost Butterfly]

I mean I find it irritating, but that's about it.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm glad you've improved

I'm not sure why you think the deadline is preventing me voting Voided? It's my lack of desire to vote Voided that's preventing the switch.

[Lost Butterfly]

I've read some of her games; why?

[Lost Butterfly]

You are telling me that she does this sheeping thing every game so it sounded like you've played with her before.

I assume she didn't just straight up lie about something that she could be contradicted about by the very player she said it about?

I mean, I'm working under the assumption she's not an idiot which seems fair?

[Lost Butterfly]

@BBmolla: Because Hermy is about as obvscum as it's possible to be on Day One with only four posts. And I'm not someone who says "obvscum" lightly.

I mean, the post I voted her for was pretty much the textbook Incompetent Scum Entrance. "Hi, there's lots of stuff going on, and instead of saying what my opinions are on any of this stuff, I'm going to be very vague and try to look helpful by offering to answer questions. Oh, look, here are two popular wagons. I guess they could both be scum, or they could both not be. I don't actually have any idea. But I'm still going to add my vote to the largest wagon because of 'reasons listed' and 'his posts and ISO.' Boy, I hope this lynch goes through quickly and I make it to Day Two without anyone noticing I exist." Her reaction to the flash wagon was also atrocious.

Why Voided over Hermy? Also, BBmolla, did you genuinely think I looked "nervous" when you voted for me? I'd have understood reading the post about bidding as fake, but nervous?

[Lost Butterfly]

Okay, maybe I should toss Hermy a bone. Hermy, what are the "reasons" listed for which you voted Voidedmafia? Do you believe Voided and Harakiri are the two scummiest players in the game? What are your top town reads?

Also, could you please say what you advertised last night, if anything?

[Lost Butterfly]

Abductor x 1: More useful to town than scum. Decent, but I prefer the other protective roles on the list.
Auction Detective x 2: Very potluck, but has the potential correctly, gives you a 1/__ chance of getting a guilty if you hit scum (just ask if a player won Cop, Deadline, or NK on N0).
Bodyguard x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum. Good for someone scummy to pick up.
Bulletproof x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum. Good for one of the trusted town bloc players to pick up.
Commuter x 1: Meh since it's one-shot, and is situationally useful for scum.
Coroner x 2: Useful in conjunction with Auction Detective. Otherwise, not that useful.
Doctor x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum.
Federal Reserve Chairman x 1: Meh. Since there are more townies than scum, that means more money is going in town's hands than scum's. But the advantage isn't as meaningful knowing that scum can coordinate more effectively.
Forensic Accountant x 2: Like coroner, useful in tandem with Auction Detective, but there are much better abilities.
Governor x 1: Situationally useful for town, dangerous in the hands of scum.
Love Potion x 1: Really dangerous if scum get it in LYLO.
Market Analyst x 3: Meh (only situationally useful)
Messenger x 2: Mediocre--can be used for gambits in the hands of town or scum.
Ninja x 4: No (duh).
Roleblocker x 3: No because it's a red power, so scum have a secret advantage in bidding for it.
Self-Watch x 1: Meh.
Tailor x 3: No no no.
Tracker x 2: Yes, because in this set-up, it's easy to catch someone useful.
Vote Nullifier x 1: Antitown (but that didn't stop someone from advertising Vote Freeze).
Wage Freeze x 1: It's free money in the hands of town, so better than nothing, but not as powerful as some of the others.
Watcher x 1: Yes (watchers are a broken role).

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm on a bus and getting motion sickness from typing, so I'll break them into categories later.

[Lost Butterfly]

SOMEONE FUCKING HAMMER HERMY RIGHT NOW.

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, I forgot. We can advertise Coroner, since everything else is covered. Nero, what did you advertise N0?

[Lost Butterfly]

Who here has the extra vote?

[Lost Butterfly]

We probably won't be able to post much until tomorrow night, but in the mean time, can people continue the N0 advertising massclaim? I have stuff to say about it when it's over.

[Lost Butterfly]

people who keep saying that prohawk not voting hermy is evidence he thought hermy was obvtown are missing the point entirely. the issue isn't what his read was, but how he came about that read (i mean, fuck, if hermy was so obvtown then WHY WAS PROHAWK THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT IT WAS OBVIOUS FOR REASONS THAT MAKE NO SENSE?) and why he did nothing with that read if it was so fucking obvious to him (which is more interesting given he's now criticising mhork's weak D1 play).

This.

I don't really care about the subtleties between "town" and "obvtown." The whole point is that how was Hermy's post obvtown by any stretch of the imagination? (Am I the only one who was actually

surprised

by Hermy's flip? I felt really comfortable about that wagon yesterday, particularly when she went quiet once the wagon on her took off.) It wasn't even that Hermy was less likely scum than Harakiri or a crappy compromise wagon or an easy lynch or insert another cliche; today he's coming in and saying that is was OBVIOUS. How was Hermy's post indicative of new-player town but not new-player scum? How do you think Hermy would have played differently if she'd been scum this game, ProHawk? ProHawk's overconfidence felt off and read more like scum white-knighting a townie (although yes, two scum "factions" etc.). And Faraday also found ProHawk's responses to his prodding yesterday mechanical.

That said, I'm not ready to vote ProHawk, because I'm a waffling waffle who wants Faraday to come back and tell me what he thinks of Pro's posts today. Some of them have an aggrieved tone that I kind of like.

Don't like Klick because his reads list is terrible and because I hate the last line of this post. Muffin, can you explain the Klick town read? I'm also getting weird vibes from BBmolla--at first, I liked his big reasonable post in response to my vote, but I've seen him use the "bombard people with text walls" tactic as scum in an offsite game. When he's town, I usually find he's much more...spontaneous; he fluff-posts a lot, but I'll get a town-read on him because it'll read as very genuine and unscripted. Also, BB, what the hell are you referring to here?

In other news, the Voided wagon is really lazy. Garuda, who exactly are you sheeping on Voided? Describe to me the evolution of your Voided read. Actually, while you're at it, could I have your latest reads list?

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm actually pretty confident that morph is town for *reasons*.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey you huge bolded people ENGAGE US ON THIS SHIT. We'll even purr real loudly just for you. Tammy-syr can come too*

Engage you on what exactly?

Our townblock o reads.

The main thing that worries me is that basically all the competent players are in the town bloc, and this is quasi-multiscum.

Oddly, I think I'd feel better about someone like Lord Mhork in there than someone like zMuffinMan. Because it's easy for someone competent to hunt for his teammates genuinely, make "reasonable" points, and become trusted for it. I was actually getting really, REALLY paranoid of both Empire

and

Tammy before their little spat on this page. I'm mostly over it now, but I still feel like all my reads this game are really unreliable (particularly after Hermy messed with my judgment).

Right now, I'd

really

like everyone who hasn't to claim their N0 advertisements, though. (We did advertise Coroner on N1.)

[Lost Butterfly]

You guys realize that this argument is completely ridiculous, and your differing theories on how you'd organize a town bloc have nothing whatsoever to do with alignment, right? Pity ffereysdstsseyhsiosy and Cabd seem much nicer than Faraday, or else you might have had a hope of escalating the Tammy-morph fight to Tammy-us levels.

Can everyone double-check that this is accurate? The bolded ones are the ones I added.

None

Player	Advertised n0	Bid on n0
VoidedMafia	Extra Vote
PeregrineV	None	Neighborizer
Nero Cain
Seanald	Austerity Measures
guille2015
Lost Butterfly (a hydra of Faraday and Mina)	None
Garuda (a hydra of Empire and Nachomamma8)	Neighbourizer	Neighbourizer (didn't win)
Pyrotechnics (a hydra of Syryana and Tammy)	adv 0	bid on neigh, didn't get it
morph the cat (a hydra of Cabd and fferyllt)	Neighborizer, Doctor, Watcher
BBmolla	None
Banakai
Harakiri (hydra of Natirasha and Sakura Hana)	Neighborizer	Neighborizer
uʍop ǝpısdn (confirmed town N and Quilford)	Cop and Medium	everything - didn't win any
zMuffinMan	Nothing
Hermy
ProHawk	Gravedigger
Lord Mhork	Nothing	Cop, Gravedigger, Medium (won)
Zdenek	medium
1baldeagle1	None	Vote freezer and Cop
DoctorPepper
Klick	None	None

[Lost Butterfly]

[Lost Butterfly]

if you could stop posting that'd be really awesome

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm sure you'd love me to not rail at your scumbuddy, but that's really just too bad.

*twitch*

*twitch*

*twitch* *twitch* *twitch*

*takes a deep breath*

OKAY.

ANYWAY, I just noticed that guille says he advertised nothing. That leaves Nero Cain, Banakai and Doctor Pepper (and Hermy, but it'd shock me if she paid enough attention to the game to advertise, anyway).

[Lost Butterfly]

if you could stop posting that'd be really awesome

I'm sure you'd love me to not rail at your scumbuddy, but that's really just too bad.

I get a strong desire to step in front of a bus everytime I read one of your posts.

[Lost Butterfly]

Mod: Plz warn pyrotechnics for implying they think me stepping in front of a bus is okay

[Lost Butterfly]

and in fact want to incite that

[Lost Butterfly]

Hello Empire why are you not posting more walls of text I think you are scum empire this is a scum tell for you

[Lost Butterfly]

Seriously, I've never actually played with either fferey or Cabd, but even leaving aside *reasons*, this post might as well be a giant fluffy bunny rabbit:

In this game, it makes hella sense because there needs to be at least a core of town that is cooperating right out of the gate so that we aren't left ahint the door during the advertising and auction phases.

I have you in my probtown pile mostly on the basis of Nacho's read from yesterday. That is good enough for me for now. i don't proclaim myself obvtown or shit. I just do what I think needs done based on my town wincon. And I trust that my motivations will become clear for people who are able track back from behaviors to win condition.

If Syr ever shows up, I'm pretty sure he won't have any trouble at all sorting at least the ffery half of this hydra.

I'm not even defending them because I think they need any help or they're in any danger whatsoever. Really, I'm just...baffled.

p-edit: ...several of those LB posts were...um...not Mina. Guess which ones weren't.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hello Mina can you please stop defending our scumbuddy morph the cat in thread scumhunter paragon tammy has in fact twigged that something may be up

[Lost Butterfly]

Faraday, why don't you go scum read deez nuts

rekt

I'm actually find it really hard to scumhunt here. i'm not sure if it's mechanics throwing me off and mina asking me a bunch of questions i literally have no opinion because despite reviewing the past 2 marketplace games i find myself completely unable to think strategically here in a way that's not "uh we should probably lynch scum". I mean I don't really understand your voided vote because I think sure he has "bad" things but they don't look out of character, there's people I wasn't even aware were playing (banakai and guille?) and I just don't have any slam dunk scum reads and I feel like I'm basically a waste of space here as that's generally what I do and let mina focus on the mechanics but instead feel like a nerd. i mean i have town reads and that's fucking great and all but hey this guy is null let's lynch the fucker isn't good enough.

plz help by making a post with reasons that i can disagree with or something.

tia your good buddy faraday

[Lost Butterfly]

Hello Empire why are you not posting more walls of text I think you are scum empire this is a scum tell for you

hey fardy let's lynch nachopire

Empire looks pretty town plz come back with a more agreeable offer!

[Lost Butterfly]

Though I will say this. Exactly what motivation does scum have in claiming they toom Investigation Immunity to keep it "away from scum"? Wouldnt it be easier to just shut up and not say anything as scum? LB is probs town for that imo.

Are you enjoying the game so far?

[Lost Butterfly]

Harakiri are town, that's cool.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm still waiting for someone with 2 brain cells to rub together to LOOK AT LAST NIGHT'S AUCTION and show the slightest indication that they see what we see in that, and what it means about the stronger players in this game. Because that one piece of hard evidence is more persuasive than all the walls I will ever write in this game.

I've worked this out despite my small brian!!!

[Lost Butterfly]

Although we actually took something different from the auction w/r/t your slot.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, considering her other head isn't exactly doing other than trolling, I'm not confident.

Pretty sure Mina has only one head. Care to comment on why you're trying to portray her as some sort of mutant?

[Lost Butterfly]

P.s. trolling is a town tell for Faraday.

~Mina.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm watching avatar the last airbender it's cool.

Pedit: That's real pretty upside downside turn the beat around side

[Lost Butterfly]

Same.

[Lost Butterfly]

Voided can you just explain why baldagle is scum in like a short paragraph that I can actually read without scrolling.

[Lost Butterfly]

Voided who are your townreads at the moment?

[Lost Butterfly]

Just a couple of quick points:

1)

CLAIM YOUR NIGHT ZERO ADVERTISEMENTS, BANAKAI, DOCTOR PEPPER, AND NERO. TRUST ME. I HAVE A REASON. JUST TRUST ME.

If no advertisements are claimed within twenty-four hours, I'm just assuming none of you advertised anything. And if you then go, "Waiiiiiiiiiiiit, I actually did this!" then I'm punching you in the face.

2) upside down's reasons for suspecting Tammy are absolutely terrible, but not in a scummy way, because I feel like they wouldn't go near her with a ten-foot pole as scum when it's so easy to go, "Boy, you're just so town, Tammy! *pat pat* *kills her at night*" (Also, *more reasons.*) I dislike ProHawk's habit of assuming that people who disagree with him on theory are scum. (I strongly disagree that you should vote a player who was getting more heat over someone you actually believe is scum just for "information".) Not at all as confident as some people seem to be that ProHawk is town.

3) Nero, have Harakiri's posts today affected your read of them at all? It feels like their name is just tacked onto the end of your list for the sake of being "consistent." As badly articulated as 1264 is, Nero is actually right that Mhork was

obviously

implying something about his alignment by bringing it up and not just "stating a fact" (I'd have liked Mhork better if he'd just admitted that he found Nero's sudden appearance after being voted suspicious). But that's still a flimsy reason to vote Mhork, and the timing of his vote switch feels more like it's something he

should

believe than actually does.

I know there are outstanding questions to me, but I'm too tired to answer them. Something substantial coming tomorrow. (Also, if Faraday doesn't post actual non-trolling content along with a vote, I'm giving you all my express permission to lynch us! )

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: I should add that the reasons I'm not confident on ProHawk being town aren't BECAUSE of his hate for people who disagree with him on theory (although his reasons for voting upside down are crappy).

Also, I think PeregrineV actually has a valid point on Seanald--at least, valid enough that I want Seanald's explanation. I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!" and just picking something on the list (either because his team did advertise it or just to look good).

[Lost Butterfly]

I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!"

...

There's no need to "..." me. I'm not saying it's a smart move by any means, or that I'd do it as scum. But I wouldn't advertise Austerity Measures or claim it as

town

, either. And early massclaims are stressful for scum. Imagine the town is pushing for you to claim what you did last night, and you have to say

something

, or else people look at you funny. Maybe you're afraid of being caught in a lie, so you claim something your team actually did advertise. Or maybe you're afraid you look scummy if you didn't advertise anything (because choosing to advertise looks more "protown"). So you just pick a random ability on the auctioned list, because you know that's safe. My point is, Seanald's choice was out of place enough that I'd like to hear his reasons for it.

I concede that Pere voting Seanald solely for this is silly.

[Lost Butterfly]

Okay my Night 0 advertisements are

Gravedigger, 1$
Cop, 2$
Doctor, 3$
Commuter, 2$
and
Neighborizer, 1$

Advertised a bunch of random stuff that sounded useful

By N0, do you mean when you confirmed or after the auction started? Apparently, you could have advertised both times.

[Lost Butterfly]

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

[Lost Butterfly]

After deadline activation, lost butterfly threw out 3 posts in a row. Now I like your play butterfly but I've noticed scum like to be active right after they've made a play in an attempt to try to control the game, what's your thoughts on that?

My thoughts are this isn't something that is true this time!

[Lost Butterfly]

Quick, claim your advertisement before you go, DoctorPepper!

[Lost Butterfly]

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

You're not scumhunting.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Also, if Faraday doesn't post actual non-trolling content along with a vote, I'm giving you all my express permission to lynch us! )

After deadline activation, lost butterfly threw out 3 posts in a row. Now I like your play butterfly but I've noticed scum like to be active right after they've made a play in an attempt to try to control the game, what's your thoughts on that?

My thoughts are this isn't something that is true this time!

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

Oh, well. It was nice playing while it lasted. Have fun, and lynch scum for us!

VOTE: Lost Butterfly











...shut up, Faraday has been trolling the whole game. I'm allowed to do it for one post.

[Lost Butterfly]

bald, I don't think you've actually read my posts.

I haven't spent any money. So, no advertisement.

If we're just going to quicklynch in a large game that's already moving too fast for not much reason, I think I'll save you guys the trouble.

@Magua: I'd like to replace out

This is a really slimy move regardless of your alignment, for the record.

[Lost Butterfly]

No it's not. You are causing more hassle for the mod, just because you are being quicklynched.

That replace out was scummy, imo.

Not to mention really unfair to whoever has to replace into this nightmare and salvage the damage you've done to your slot. And that's without getting into the ethics of tactical replacements. Do you really think that people were actually going to take baldeagle's suggestion seriously?

If you're town, then get off your ass and fight for yourself. Tell us who we should lynch instead of you. What are your reads? Who do you suspect? What do you think of baldeagle's suggestion? Misguided town? Scum framing you? What do you think of the counterwagons to you? What ever happened to your planned morph case?

[Lost Butterfly]

Last post in here. But that's not actually the only reason I'm requesting reason, just part of it. I really don't have time to continue playing this game successfully, and I saw that as a way to make the game

better

, not worse. But, since everyone's throwing a pissy fit over it:

Magua, I retract my replacement request

---

VOTE: Klick

Enjoy your money.

Wow.

So...on the one hand, this is the skeeviest thing ever. On the other hand, if anyone seriously believes that Klick is scum doing this, you're out of your mind.

[Lost Butterfly]

Ffery can quote this for ISO later stuck in class but klick that was unethical as fuck. PL speedlynch go!

Hey. Uh, no? Can we not lynch the guy who towntold pretty hard with that whole page. That'd own!

I didn't like his posts day 1, particularly the uh, fucking "here's my scumteam lol ez" post which felt fake confidence but I don't think he'd do what he just do as scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

In fact, if I told you I was the ghost of marketplace mafia 3 future sent back to prevent you comitting this mistake would you unvote?

[Lost Butterfly]

as much as I'd like to think that, my one completed game has taught me that people asking for replacement isn't a towntell orz

It has nothing to do with him asking for replacement. It's that he then retracted it after drawing heat

and self-voted

for the sake of giving the town money. Why would scum do that in his shoes? Retracting the replace-out due to shame, sure. But then wouldn't he be more prone to just stalling the game/trying to win us over?

p-edit: Ninja'd by me!

[Lost Butterfly]

...shut up, Faraday has been trolling the whole game. I'm allowed to do it for one post.

This is seriously anti town and you're making our hydra unpleasant to play with!

[Lost Butterfly]

Peregrine_falcon is also town.

Uh, let me get back to you on that. I have a bunch of town reads and am trying to process the "no strong opinion" ones into something more useful.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, BBmolla when you read this can you pinkie promise that you're town.

[Lost Butterfly]

well actually that's not true. Our vote is down on Voided. But we were thinking about moving it this afternoon when I first drafted said godawful wall.

LB who do you think we should be lynching today?

Faraday is leaning toward Nero. I'll let him explain why in his own words. I'm having second thoughts even though Nero's advertisement claims were terrible, because I actually thought his rage in this post (particularly the last line) and this post looked like genuine town paranoia. (Someone in this game said Nero rages a lot as town, IIRC.)

I'm also starting to feel worse about Voidedmafia today, since I feel like some of the points in his walls have been insincere and opportunistic. It's hard to explain; in particular, his habit of quoting posts and going, "Ohhhh, you're looking SCUMMIER! This looks even scummier than that" pings my gut. Also, this post reads like he's fishing for the other team:

I don't think PV-scum'd lose much by fishing for a partner N1, so long as it wasn't a blind toss. I would hope that if he is on a team they used other means to find scum last night. (and one in particular)

Why did you say "I would

hope

," and "one in particular", Voided? This sounds more like you're talking from the PoV of scum than town, TBH.

Faraday has been distracted by some RL stuff, so we haven't spent as much time on this game as we'd have liked today. A big post on the N0 advertisements coming tomorrow, but off the top of my head, you in particular, ProHawk to a lesser degree, and maybe Banakai and upside down (depending on the math) come out looking better for it. Now I think it would have been useful to ask for

amounts

people advertised, actually, but I don't want to stall this out any more.

[Lost Butterfly]

Unless I'm misunderstanding your plan Morph I don't see how we can hold people accountable?

[Lost Butterfly]

We can't roll dice in thread though, which I assumed was necessary? Or is it just "roll a dice, then that town player knows what to do for the night?"

[Lost Butterfly]

Then why did you use the words "I would

hope

," Voided? I'm not sure I understand what you mean--this came after there already WAS no kill N1. What was your endgame by trying to conceal this from the scum (who I'd assume would know their kill had failed)?

[Lost Butterfly]

Something I literally started writing hours ago, but forgot to post:

You seemed eccentric, which would imply nervousness.

Eccentric how?

...Like, more hyped up than normal? I donno. Not chill Mina town.

Did you actually use the word "chill" and "Mina" in the same sentence?

Also:

Jesus christ are you kidding me?

Fuck that

VOTE: Voided

I don't think you ever explained, but what are you shocked about here that triggered your over-the-top reaction?

[Lost Butterfly]

morph, on the surface, your plan looks good, but I have to wake up in four hours, so I'm not going to put serious thought into it. I'll get back to you on it tomorrow when we finalize what our townreads/preferred abilities are.

Hey, Tammy, what's your read on us? It feels like your interactions with us today have been really toned down compared to yesterday (and yet you've implied you still think we're scum). baldeagle, too. Do you still have a scumread on us?

[Lost Butterfly]

Nah

[Lost Butterfly]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=23495

I don't think these are particularly similar situations other than the fact that it's klick asking for replacement in a game.

I'll post our list later, also Mina wants to bring up some advertising stuff or analyse it or something, and I want to try and catch the second half of the Arsenal/Dortmund game in a bar.

[Lost Butterfly]

What are you doing?