Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[KingdomAces]

Hi, I've only read up to page 26. I'll try to get through everything, but until then is there anything I really need to know?

I saw the plan and followed it, spending five dollars on each of the five abilities, and sent $140 to Lost Butterfly.

Anything else you need from me for now?

[KingdomAces]

Yes, I have Hitman and Investigative Immunity.

Something about Upside just seemed off to me, and PV/Pieguyn pretty much seemed non-existent. I do have townreads on the other two though.

Among everyone else, Eagle's confusion seemed genuine enough, and I think I remember thinking that Gaurda/Harakiri were fairly town. I don't have any scumreads though, because I don't get scumreads.

PEdit: I don't see any possible harm in saying what Zd already said, and I don't know why I forgot to mention reads earlier. How could it be bad advice?

[KingdomAces]

My reads right now are pretty much just gut.

I'm too tired to do any serious reading right now, but I'll make an effort to get some more reads with reasons out tomorrow.

[KingdomAces]

If I need to explain where Bald looked confused, then I might actually be thinking of something else. It was the sole issue in the first few pages of the game.

And the thing about upside is that I just saw them as a hydra, so they have double the capacity to try and be useful, but literally all they did was troll. Once again, I did this reading two replacement requests ago, and my memory is terrible.

Really, I'm probably just being a huge idiot at the moment. Actually leaving now.

PEdit: I don't know if it actually matters to the discussion, but as soon as I saw that I had two incredibly antitown abilities, the first thing I did was check to see if Zd had already claimed them. Since he did, I didn't think it was worth mentioning myself.

[KingdomAces]

Up to the end of D1.

Okay, Seanald is looking absolutely terrible with continually going back and forth about how much he's read, along with advertising an incredibly antitown ability.

I'm retracting my townread on Garuda. They seem to be just going after the easy targets, while giving reasons that don't even seem good enough to justify that. I'm speaking mostly about Hermy and Klick here. Yeah hindsight, but Hermy only really gave newbie tells from that first post, and unlike Butterfly, they seemed like they were just voting her for fun and not because they actually had reasons. As for Klick, pretty much everyone's first post who wasn't around the entire time was some version of that. Their reaction to being pressed on it isn't that good either.

Still have townreads on Eagle and Morph. Their reaction to Pepper's entrance at the very least sound like not scum with him.

[KingdomAces]

It's a process, okay?

[KingdomAces]

Agree with that post giving massive townpoints to Ghostly Penguin, and I forgot to mention in my reply to Muffin earlier that I still have townreads on Lost Butterfly and Harakiri, the only reason I mentioned Morph and Eagle specifically was because of their reaction to one of DP's posts.

More things I should have said before, I think my main qualms with Upside are just not liking N's playstyle. Quilford's entrance made my opinion of the slot a lot better.

[KingdomAces]

Prod dodge because I'm tired and not really feeling well. This game is my top priority over the weekend.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, I put this off a lot longer than I should have, but I'm starting to read again. Any questions you want to make while I'm reading would be appreciated.

Also, I'm too busy reading this game to check, but wasn't there a press against Voided in Marketplace Mafia II for the exact same reasons that he is being suspected this time? I just got a strange sense of deja vu for some reason.

[KingdomAces]

My memory is terrible, and I haven't looked at that game since it happened. I just think I remember that happening, but I'm not sure at all. That's why it's a question and not a statement.

Anyway, why were you getting so angry at ProHawk when you voted him earlier in the post. If you thought he was scum, wouldn't you just explain how bad his posts were, and use that to add to your case? The only reason to get angry at someone for supposedly making really stupid statements was if you thought they were misguided town.

In post 913, ProHawk wrote:
Speed-lynch.

WE HAD THREE DAYS TO LYNCH SOMEBODY!! YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING -BUT- SPEEDLYNCH SOMEBODY IN THAT TIMEFRAME, YOU IDIOT!

In post 913, ProHawk wrote:
No evidence

WISHY-WASHY-NESS/NON-COMMITTAL-NESS TO THE TWO LARGEST WAGONS AT THE TIME!

HOW ARE THOSE NOT EVIDENCE?!

[KingdomAces]

In 1, they didn't win together, and all scum had a way of communicating separate from the thread anyway. I don't really remember 2 all that well though.

I don't think it's worth bothering to check though, since it's posted in the OP that the factions are right-hand and left-hand. It would be suicidal to make that sort of crumb.

The fact that Pyro was the main person being so paranoid about the hydra's and causing a massive argument, then getting killed, makes me think that there's a decent enough chance that at least one of the people they were being paranoid over there is scum. Will try to determine who when I'm done reading.

[KingdomAces]

I find Garuda's comments on Dr. Pepper in 1306 strange. At this point he seemed not all that much different from Guille/Bankai, but he specifically commented about DP and none of the other near lurkers. In the post after that he calls Seanald a second tier townread with absolutely no explanation, when he'd done nothing even remotely town at that point.

I'm also finding his insistence on Zdenck town strange considering his current opinions on me, but I'll wait until I actually see their full trajectory on this before pushing it.

[KingdomAces]

Up to 60. I don't think I can read any more for today, but I should still be around to respond for a while.

Now that I've actually seen content from PV and Pie, I'm definitely getting townreads on them. Morph paranoia is going up, but they're still leaning town.

If this were a bastard game I'd call N scum and Quilford town, especially with N pressing how many times N says that Quilford is obvtown, but it isn't so I'll just go with town on that slot.

[KingdomAces]

The absolute best thing that can happen to incredibly antitown abilities is for them to get removed from the game due to lack of advertising. That way scum has absolutely no chance to get them, so town is free to ignore any negative consequences it might cause. If it comes up anyway, then the only way to keep it out of scum's hands is getting it ourselves. There is a massive difference between advertising something to ensure that it gets in the game in the first place, and buying an ability when it's already up for auction.

And yes, I have a leaning-scum read on Garuda.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, I'll withdraw the part on Seanald. I realized that you did actually say a few things about him after I posted that, but didn't correct myself because I quite frankly disagree about that. I can't really make meta arguments, but people can not care as either alignment. In this case, he could be just as easily upset that he rolled scum in this setup again, and was completely expecting a rehash of Marketplace Mafia II. So I may have been projecting on that point, and I'm sorry about that.

This doesn't make your comments on DP any less suspicious though.

About Voided, the part of the post I quoted in 2420 actually gave me huge town vibes the first time I read it. I forget why I framed it as a negative in the first place, since I was kind of expecting that to be more of a live discussion, but with the response he did give in 2484... I'm not sure. I literally just sat around trying to figure out what it meant for like ten minutes. I am really bad at this whole Mafia thing.

[KingdomAces]

A: I haven't read the whole thread yet.
B: From my point of view, I'm constantly asking people to ask me questions, and everyone is just ignoring me. Yeah, I'm not exactly involved with all that much yet, but that's more indicative of how bad of a conversationalist I am than it is of my alignment.

[KingdomAces]

I literally just sat around trying to figure out what it meant for like ten minutes.

Well, what exactly confused you about it?

On one hand, everything about the explanation makes sense and explains the problems I had with it. On the other hand, the way it was phrased made it seem like you were completely disavowing any ownership of what you said after I showed a possible negative light it could be portrayed in. Really, it's probably just null all around anyway and I just had already done enough that I wanted to try to force myself to get at least

something

out of it. Separating the rest of the response and not quoting it, so people don't go "Oh look, quote strips." and then just skip them completely.

---

To be honest, I've been purposely avoiding Nero. While I can't say I know much about him, everything I do know just makes me even less confident that I can actually get anything from him. I will try to figure him out though.

I think it's pretty clear that he has had a bad experience with White Knighting in the past, and when he saw the possibility that it could happen again, he went on a crusade strongly believing that his conclusion was right, so everything else only looks like more proof. (I'm not criticizing him for it though, I did the exact same thing in Survivor: Arkham Asylum, if anyone here actually pays attention to those.) While this does mean that I really don't trust his VCA, this really does increase my townread on him, since I don't think scum's righteousness sensors would get triggered like that, since they would know your alignment in the first place, so subconsciously he would be unable to believe his conviction as strongly as it appears he does.

And I lost track of time. I'll get to the rest of the questions later when I have time to actually give thorough answers that solely comprised of the words "null" or "gut", because that's what you'd get if I tried to answer them now.

PEDIT: I've apparently been on this reply screen for 40 minutes. Yes, I'm that slow. No, I'm not going to take the time now to read the pedits.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, starting with things I don't have to do any research to respond to.

Spoiler: Quote stripping at VM

I'm not sure how that could be construed as "disavowing ownership" of what I said. I was clarifying what we were arguing about, explaining my annoyance with Prohawk's second statement, then pointing out to you how anger isn't just a one-way tell.

I suppose I didn't word that correctly. What I meant was you specifically stated, twice, that your argument had nothing to do with your alignment, and you would have done the same as either. Not exactly disavowing ownership, but still giving the same "nothing to see here, move on" kind of feeling.

But why not see if it wasn't actually WKing? IIRC Baldeagle said I was WKing and latched onto that from the get-go, and I don't recall him saying anything different. I can understand not wanting to be defeated by the same tactic again, but better sense would be to make sure it IS actually happening again, right?

Also, I don't really get a sense of "righteousness" from his posts, just a "gotta kill VM, gotta kill VM" sense <_<.

Like I said, I've done it before, and when I did I wasn't paying attention to reason whatsoever. I know this probably doesn't help you see what I'm talking about, but I can't really describe it.

Do you believe this isn't a two-team game?

I may have forgotten about that temporarily, but scum cannot bus in this setup due to money issues. One scum is already down. If he's scum and thinks that you are on the other team, he's still not going to be acting the way he is.

Did Mhork medium-ing Pyro affect your read on him? If yes, how?

Yes, it gave me a leaning-town read on him from absolutely no read at all. Pyro was by far my strongest townread when I was reading the beginning of day one, (noting that this was before he died, I tried to keep up with the game for a while before I replaced in, but ultimately failed) so I don't find the fact that he chose to medium them specifically problematic at all, and he genuinely seems to be trying to work with conftown and get their postdeath reads back into the game.

How do you feel about Seanald? Upside Down?

I've already given my opinion on these two. Seanald is looking scummy for his advertising choice as well as general apathy towards this game after getting totally blown apart as scum in II. Also I agree with whoever said that his "See you on day two" before the activation of Deadline was weirdly timed. I'm annoyed with N's posting style, but whenever Quilford posts I immediately get a townread on that slot. More reasoning for this coming after research, but that might take a while.

Morph: I am incredibly disengaged. How is that an alignment tell? This is the first time I'm replacing into a game where I hadn't read the whole thing before offering, and frankly I'm beginning to think that was a mistake.

[KingdomAces]

On second read... I don't actually know where my Quilford townread came from. I guess it was just that much of a relief to see content from that slot that I didn't really think about it. That and the fact that I agreed with his points on Garuda. I'm moving Quilford to null for now, so that makes that slot overall null-scum.

ISO'ing Muffin, I don't really understand why he was a fairly strong townread of a few people early D1, but there were a few incidences of trying to get people who were nonsensically arguing back on track, and nothing really stood out as scummy to me. I'll put him at leaning town right now.

Morph, you still haven't said how my engagement is an alignment tell.

Note to self: Still to ISO, BBmolla, ProHawk, Nero. Not sure if this is going to be now, because I kind of want sleep at the moment.

[KingdomAces]

Just like everyone else is saying that they have a mild scumread on Garuda.

I'm sorry that I haven't actually read your slot thinking logically until now, and every other time when I saw Quilford I only saw that it was so much better than your posts, without realizing that "so much better than your posts" isn't actually enough to make your slot look town.

Also, if everyone else had a null-scum read on you, then why would they all be giving you money?


On that note, I agree that the plan needs to be changed somewhat to have just the general scumreads pass money along to the general townreads. We really just can't afford to risk the entire game on those people being town at this point, because I really can't be too sure. I'm still planning on transferring everything I get, since I realize that I'm being useless and you have no reason to trust me for now. I'll keep working on this whenever I get the time, but that just isn't as often as I'd like it to be.

[KingdomAces]

Yes, several people have already mentioned it, though I don't think anyone has stated any reasons except for the fact that I'm useless and behind in this game. I'm trying to fix that, but as I said earlier, it's a process.

[KingdomAces]

Looked over BBMolla, and he doesn't seem to different from what I've seen of him elsewhere. A lot of one liners, spamming multiple posts in a row instead of consolidating into one post. The main difference is he doesn't seem quite as antagonistic as I remember him being. That could be because he isn't completely sure of anything this game, or I'm just remembering incorrectly, but there's definitely a possibility that he's playing carefully to try to get less heat than he normally does.

Most of what ProHawk's talked about this game has been theory. Ignoring all of that, the main things left are his continual suspicion of Morph and his townlist which among other people consisted if Pyro, who would go on to get killed, and Dr. Pepper. The first thing I'll say is that he's probably not scum with DP, and I don't think I need to explain that. The way he pressed Morph all game see,s like he's actually truing to get them to think and be more useful, which I don't think he would do as scum unless he knew Morph was scum as well, so he's a townlean as long as Morph still looks town.

Spoiler: Current Readlist.

Town:

PeregrineV
pieguyn
Ghostly Penguin
1baldeagle1

Townlean:

Lost Butterfly
Harakiri
zMuffinMan
ProHawk
Lord Mhork

Null-Town

morph the cat

More analyisis required:

VoidedMafia
Nero Cain
JacobSavage

Null-Scum

Garuda
BBmolla
uʍop ǝpısdn

Scumlean

Seanald

Unfortunately for me, this means I pretty much have to attempt to analyze Nero the next time I'm on, because I'm running out of other people.

[KingdomAces]

Yes, several people have already mentioned it, though I don't think anyone has stated any reasons except for the fact that I'm useless and behind in this game. I'm trying to fix that, but as I said earlier, it's a process.

Crazy thing is, everyone is a potential PR in this game, cause $$$$$. So the fact you are being useless is baffling as well as scummy.

Except for the fact that I gave up all my money, so I'm not actually a potential PR anymore. Also I'm still in the process of catching up. I'm fairly close to done at this point, so I should be getting less useless soon.

[KingdomAces]

PV, I just remembered that you were in MattP's Large Normal as well, so you should know that I'm completely useless even when I am caught up to the game.

Anyway, reading Nero now.

[KingdomAces]

D1 Nero spent the entire time calling Hana scum for sheeping Nacho. I agree that she shouldn't have been doing that but it was pointed out several times by several people that it was completely null, yet he continued to press it. The other points (contradicting themselves, saying that Eagle is good enough to fake a townslip as scum.) were just as weak, since self-contradiction is only an indication that someone isn't sure of something, and... I just don't understand how the latter is scummy at all. D2, the entire day for him was arguing that Mhork didn't make him appear. Honestly, that entire thing was ridiculous, as well as completely null and I don't know why anyone let it continue as long as it did.

Doing D3 later. From the first two days though, it seemed like all he ever did was pressure people for doing things that were wrong, even though they weren't actually scummy. That's the easiest way to fake content as scum, and the fact that he hasn't really done all that much else on those days makes me lean scum on him. I'll finish this tomorrow.

[KingdomAces]

Upside, you said I was just copying everyone else's reads on you. I have a null-scum read on you. Therefore you said that everyone else has a null-scum read on you.

Morph, reasoning would be nice.

[KingdomAces]

Coroner=/=Austerity Measures? If you actually have a question, then you should ask it.

[KingdomAces]

Mostly just a prod dodge. I know that deadline is really soon, so I'll finish up everything I need to do today within 24 hours. I think all I need to say right now is that I advertised 5$ on each of the five abilities listed last night.

[KingdomAces]

Not voting because I don't want to vote until I'm completely caught up and would be able to vote someone who I person I think is more likely to be scum. In order to do that though, I'd have to have an opinion, and in order to have an opinion I'd have to put in a massive amount of work, and I just really don't feel like doing that.

I promised content that I never gave, so I might as well force myself to do it now. Since apparently it's now less than a day until deadline, I'm just going to focus on Nero vs. Voided unless someone has something specific they want me to look at.

[KingdomAces]

That's probably because it is.

[KingdomAces]

If you're saying I should vote Seanald, then I should point out that he's at two votes with ten to lynch, with deadline in less than 15 hours. I don't think it's going to happen, so voting him is pretty much the same as not voting.

[KingdomAces]

Fine. It's still not going to accomplish anything though.
VOTE: Seanald

Aside from that, while I'll be around to vote elsewhere if necessary, it's really looking like I just am not going to be able to sort either of Voided/Nero before the end of the day, Too many shiny things.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, I guess I was wrong about how possible a Seanald lynch was.

Normally I really don't like deadline flashwagons, but in this case Seanald's reaction to it just doesn't seem town, especially since he should have explicitly gotten his ending balance in bold at the end of last night, so there's no reason to get the amount wrong.

Mostly just posting to say that I see the plan, and I agree with it. Yeah we'll be losing a lot of money if one of the four gets killed, but expanding the number any further is too risky, and denying the general scumreads of money is probably more important than giving the general townreads more money anyway.

[KingdomAces]

Do you really think that he wouldn't know how much money he currently has if he was town? That's seems like something too easy for anyone to mess up.

[KingdomAces]

Do you really think he wouldn't make extra sure he had his numbers right if he were scum?

You are the one saying that Seanald's an idiot. Screwing up fake numbers is far easier than screwing up real ones. Not to mention that scumSeanald would have a lot less motivation than townSeanald because of what happened last game.

dat echo. This is pretty much what Muffin and Mhork have been saying about me. Though Hana/Nat saying that LB is good enough to fake townslip as scum is nothing more than a "hey suspect this guy" type of post wich I think comes from scum a lot.

If that's what Muffin/Mhork were saying, then I haven't read them as much as I thought I did. In that case though, why are you still pushing it if that has been said already? I think that this is the first time you've said that about Hara's post though. Why didn't you mention it sooner?

[KingdomAces]

I sent all of my money to Pie last night, and if you need me to say it again on N2 I sent $140 to LB.

How is saying an argument looks like TvS without specifying which is which a scumtell? Pretty much whenever there is a massive argument, at least someone says that, if not multiple people.

I have nothing new in terms of reads. Since I'm apparently the only one who is at all suspicious of Garuda, re-examining that is going to be my first priority when I get the time.

[KingdomAces]

Are you serious? It's the easiest way to fencesit and get two mislynches without getting your hands dirty.

I know that. What I'm saying is that doesn't actually mean that scum actually does it more often than town, even though there are clear benefits to doing so.

[KingdomAces]

I still have Pie as a fairly solid townread. This argument is actually pushing upside more towards town for me though,

And yes, I've been incredibly passive and wishy-washy this game. The former because time, and the latter because I'm wishy-washy in life.

[KingdomAces]

Why am I currently the leading wagon even though Mhork's 2676 is the closest thing

anyone

has given for reasons so far? It's kind of hard to tell who is being opportunistic when it seems like every single vote is unexplained.

[KingdomAces]

Technically I've pretty much given up on reading what I haven't read yet outside of ISO's, so I'm not really behind anymore. It's just that I'm having a hard time getting solid reads, which quite frankly is normal for me. Especially scumreads, since I don't know if I've actually had a correct scumread ever, so I generally try to avoid pressing people and instead looking for townreads.

Speaking of townreads, I've been getting one on Espeon with his recent posts.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Garuda Quote Strips

I don't really like that he needed prodding to confirm the ivest immunity and hitman, considering the earlier pages. I was hoping we could see if we could confirm it without confirming being the obviously right thing to do, but you can't have it all.

I knew he already claimed it, and there didn't seem to be anyone who doubted Zd had them. Confirming it would have been pointless.

Up to the end of D1...

What do you think of our extended case on Klick? Hermy lynch ended up being a deadline lynch, which is clear from context. I'm also surprised you don't comment at all on the pepper lynch here...?

Wait, Dr. Pepper was lynched by the end of D1? Aside from that, what extended case? The one where you compared his first post to Seanald's the first time you mention it, and then never add anything else aside from "this sounds fake", even though it really didn't, for the rest of the day? Looking past D1, the rest of your points against him are that his logic is terrible, which while it would be nice if only scum had terrible logic, that's not the way things are. And you were the second vote on Hermy, so you can't say that it was because it was a deadline lynch.

Why did you like Quilfords entrance so much?

Went over already. When I first read that I was pretty much just skimming, and everything in that post was logical and not scummy, which was a vast departure from the rest of that slot's posts. After the first few times I was asked this question, I actually went back and reread that post to look for evidence of alignment, and found nothing.

We did comment on our different reads on most of the lurkers.

Ctrl+F on your ISO says otherwise. Burden of proof is on you here.

Wait, I can't spell. Still no Guille though. More specific response to this in the post where you're more specific. Also, what was your read on Zd at the time?

What does this have to do with anything?

It doesn't. I don't always have to be 100% serious.

Why doesn't it make our comments on doctor pepper any less suspicious when it shreds the reason you suspected it in the first place? We were conflicted on klick by the end because of replace out shenanigans, banakai had advertisements + some good sounding town points, guille was clearly not going to post so that wasn't scummy. Doctor pepper posted before deadline. He saw deadline was activated. He left without paying any sort of attention or making any effort in letting town get a lynch, didn't engage at panic mode at all. We talked about this and more, but that was the smoking gun. Why did you ignore it?

Klick wasn't an inactive at that point, you didn't say any of that about Banakai back then, noting that I had only read up to page 60. The only post was just saying that you thought he was null, for what I saw as having a really similar post to DP's. You still never mentioned Guille once. I didn't address your "smoking gun" because RL>Mafia no matter how close the deadline is. DP specifically said something was happening in RL for him, so unless you have proof that he's lying, then that's not good enough. Further about Banakai, when you did finally post something meaningful about him, it was just echoing what LB was saying and you wouldn't have mentioned him at all if LB didn't bring him up. My reasons for suspecting those comments have barely even been damaged, much less shredded.

Called out for to having a real reason to call Quilford town, moves the slot to null-scum (despite saying before that Quilford was the only reason he wasn't confident the slot was scum). Keeps bringing up that his complete lack of engagement is a null tell, which isn't true at all.

Null+Scum=Null-Scum. Where's the problem? Also, how is lack of engagement scummy at all? Once again, it would be nice if it was, but it's not.

Around the end of deadline he's like "I can't lynch Seanald and I don't have time to sort the main wagon choices a all, but I'll vote wherever you'd like me too!", which is the definition of voting someone and hoping the lynch doesn't go through.[/quote]He flipped town, so why would I not want the lynch to go through as scum? Aside from that, see the last point of the previous quote.

And of course the read he chooses to evaluate is he one without shit for support, notepad of any wagons that are prevalent.

As much as being a lone wolf can make someone look town, it's not helpful at all. I specifically wanted to review my read of you because if my review turned up that my read on you was wrong and that everyone else was correct, I'd have another townread that I could actually trust. If it came up that I still thought you were scummy, then I could actually form a decent post that people actually would have to consider, and hopefully actually have it gain support. I had already tried several times to analyse Voided/Nero and failed, so I really didn't want to go right back into doing something that would cause me to continue being useless.

There's also a complete lack of reaction to the Seanald wagon that I don't like; he just goes "oh. It's going through. He's still scummy?" then spends all of today running like a chicken with its head cut off.

What should I have done. Unvoted even though I still thought he was scum, and was just going further to prove it?

tl;dr: Most of these points are completely ignoring something else that I said, or claiming that they said things that they didn't. I want to wait for a response before making a final decision on what this makes me think of his alignment though.

Muffin:
TownSeanald process of giving correct monetary information:
1. Look at the big bold thing in his QT/PM that says "Ending Balance"

ScumSeanald process of falsifying monetary information:
1. Look at the VT PM given in the first post.
2. Create a whole separate account for himself as if he had that PM.
3. Calculate exactly how much money he needed to use on confirmable actions so that he wouldn't get caught fakeclaiming.
4. Make sure that his balance added up for his fakeclaim without the mod being able to do all of the calculations for him.

All I knew is that he screwed up one of the two, and I thought that there was absolutely no way he could screw up the former.

About Espeon: Gut. Will elaborate further after I take a short break.

[KingdomAces]

No, because I actually said that I'd get back to it, where I don't think Nero ever did.

Sorry, got distracted by things, getting back to it now. And before I get called out for Beetlejuicing, this was really the first time I've refreshed the page in the past five hours, it just so happens that it's only a few minutes after Muffin prodded me about this.

[KingdomAces]

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Unless you're referring to my spelling or something, I really don't know.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, I think the thing on Espeon came because I can relate to his not being able to get to sleep because he wanted to say something. I'm not saying that I agree with him in those points, just that getting the nagging urge to figure out another player's mindset makes more sense from a town perspective than a scum one, since they don't need to be figuring out the game as much as town does.

Yes, it's weak, but it's enough that I wouldn't want to lynch him over a null.

[KingdomAces]

I... really don't want to decide. If I had to pick someone, I'd say BBMolla.

[KingdomAces]

Spoiler: Garuda

You haven't commented on me lynching DrPepper in general. Klick showed up with a bad post around the time when deadline was activated, which sounded fake to us, and we even ended up explaining why we did later. Other points against Klick were: posturing, focusing on us calling his line fake and doing nothing else, saying that he had a top scumread in Prohawk but being unwilling to vote him because he didn't want Voided to "escape a lynch" (implicit reasoning, #1306). Later, we had a lot of waffling based on the circumstances around his replace out; I actually don't see where we attacked him based on bad logic. And yes, when deadline was activated D1, our goal was to find a good lynch on the first person who pinged us. Hermy pinged us. What other sort of lynch would you expect us to find? Doesn't it seem hypocritical that you're criticizing us for not putting enough thought into determining a D1 lynch with a three day deadline when you're still having trouble finding a good scumread to lynch weeks into the game?

What don't you understand about the fact that I haven't read anything between page 60 and the end of D2? That's why I haven't commented about it. I don't see how Klick was posturing at all, and to me all of the other points still just sound like examples of bad logic, even if you never used that term. I'm also not saying that you should have had a better lynch, just that I don't think you in particular actually thought Hermy was scum. Literally the only argument you ever made against her was quoting her post and saying "Man, I've always wanted to do that." Yet you were the second on her wagon, so you definitely couldn't just have been voting her because of the deadline. Unless you were actually confident that she was scum, which if you were you would have actually argued your point, then you would have waited until it actually looked like it was going to be the deadline lynch before hopping on.

Guille said "hi, I'm going to skim" and then disappeared. During this time, he showed absolutely no awareness of the game state, didn't complain, didn't do anything alignment relevant. What did you expect us to say about him?

DP said "hi, I'll catch up later" thought he saw a typo with the deadline, and then disappeared. Just because he had the ability to know that there was time pressure doesn't mean that he actually had more time to devote to the game. Therefore, I expect you to have said just as much about Guille as you did about DP.

Also, what was your read on Zd at the time?

Town.

Then why did you start your recent set of posts on why you thought Zd was scum?

Klick was an inactive the entire time he was in the thread. I don't remember what happened on what page because I usually respond with off the cuff answers when I'm looking at things on my iPad; checking timelines is usually a horrible waste of time. No, I probably didn't find anything interesting about Banakai by then. Why does that matter?

Not DP level inactive, which is what I'm classifying here. Timelines are important, because at that moment in time all of the people of the same activity level should be completely interchangeable, yet you clearly focused more on DP than you did anyone else on the exact same level. DP then flipped scum. There are three options here of why you could have automatically latched on to the one of them who is actually scum. 1. You are Psychic. 2. You got

extremely

lucky. 3. You are scum with DP. I believe that the first isn't physically possible, and I'm not going to just assume the second.

I pointed out how they were different.

No you didn't. If you're saying you pointed it out afterwards, see above.

DP had time to log into the thread and notice when deadline was going to happen. If he noticed when deadline was going to happen and was town, he would also notice that there was a strong wagon forming that he could have looked at. He had time to put a vote down or contribute something in thread or give a shit that we were on limited time constraints, but he did not. Why? Because he was scum.[/quote]Are you saying you've never looked at a thread with intent to read something, saw there was far more than you thought there would be, realized that you didn't have time for it, and walked away? I do that pretty much daily. It's not alignment indicative.

Null means that a player literally hasn't done anything (as in, has a rating of 0). Scummy means that the player is scum (as in, has a rating of -1). 0 + -1 = -1, as in a scummy hydra head plus a null hydra head is a scummy hydra. How did Quilford's posting make N's look townier if you didn't find anything in Quilford's posts that you liked? Lack of engagement is scummy because town players look for scum and try to get them lynched because that's their win condition. Scum players survive because that's their win condition; they also have more information than townies, so there's less "figuring things out".

Because I'm still not completely sure that my thinking N is scummy isn't because I just really dislike his style. I really can't say all that much more about that, because that's really what I was thinking. And I'm not saying disengagement isn't anti-town. It's incredibly anti-town. Anti-Town=/=Scummy.

Getting really tired, so I'll just sum up the rest of my responses to your points as that I just am not feeling motivated to do anything recently. I just don't have reads, and any time I try to find them I never find anything even worth posting.

Right now I think our main point of discontention is actually a matter of theory. I am willing to admit that Garuda could be town who just got lucky with DP.

About BBm, all it is is PoE+not liking his playstyle. If you're expecting me to actually be good at this game, then you should seriously reconsider.

[KingdomAces]

I'm really sorry that I couldn't actually do more this game, I just could never really get into it. Before I'm lynched, I might as well make one more readslist that you can use or ignore as you see fit.

Don't lynch these people unless you have a

really

good reason:
PeregrineV
pieguyn
Lost Butterfly

Less strong townreads that I'd still would rather if you didn't lynch:
Ghostly Penguin
Harakiri
Lord Mhork
1baldeagle1

Tier 3 townreads, could be scum but I doubt it:
zMuffinMan
ProHawk
Espeonage

Important points:
VoidedMafia - For some reason, this whole time I had a gut townread on Voided. I can't explain it and I don't even understand it, so I know that bringing this up before would just cause my lynch today to be even more solidified. Something really is telling me that he's town though.

Garuda - Don't just assume that they're town. They are back to null for me over the exchange I had with them today, but nowhere during it did I get the feeling that he was absolutely coming from a town standpoint.

Everyone else:
Nero Cain
BBmolla
uʍop ǝpısdn

[KingdomAces]

Sorry that I replaced in even though I really didn't have time for it, and turned what was an obvtown slot into an easy mislynch. Due to my pretty much non-presence in the game, I really don't think I have all that much I can say.

Good job to the scum, especially to LB and Muffin who I never once doubted until after I was dead.