Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Pyrotechnics]

VOTE: garuda

Okay so scum definitely got cop, deadline and nightkill.

We lost the bid for neighborizer. I submit that whoever won it needs to claim it so that we can evaluate them. Also, I don't see neighborizer in the abilities not yet auctioned, so I *think* from what I've read it won't show up again, but if it does or can be advertised it's something that we shouldn't do.

[Pyrotechnics]

I like you guys' old avatar better >_>

[Pyrotechnics]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

[Pyrotechnics]

VOTE: Pyrotechnics

Anyone with the following abilities should claim right away: Deadline, Hitman, Investigative Immune, Nightkill. I'd want Extra Vote and Vote Freezer to claim, too.

We got Investigation Immune! I can't believe it was so cheap. We even bid $80 on it to keep it out of scum's hands.

*snerk*

[Pyrotechnics]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

Last game scum could pool their money for bids, so yeah.

[Pyrotechnics]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

Last game scum could pool their money for bids, so yeah.

So basically, anyone else that did win something aren't scum?

Like Butterfly's post.

No. Just anything that went for over $100 definitely went to scum. They could still make lower bids. I wouldn't be worried about the neighborizer right now if I thought for sure it went to town.

[Pyrotechnics]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

Last game scum could pool their money for bids, so yeah.

So basically, anyone else that did win something aren't scum?

Like Butterfly's post.

No. Just anything that went for over $100 definitely went to scum. They could still make lower bids. I wouldn't be worried about the neighborizer right now if I thought for sure it went to town.

Neighborizer went for exactly $100; I think whoever has it is probably town.

Not necessarily. They could easily bid whatever they wanted to mess with our heads and keep us guessing. They got cop, which means they're going to be looking for the other team at night. Neighborizer is the only way they'll be able to communicate. I want to make sure the neighborizer is town.

[Pyrotechnics]

Neighborizer should stay unclaimed, so they can make a neighborhood.

P-Edit: Hm?

They can still make a neighborhood when claimed.

[Pyrotechnics]

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

Garuda and upside down, enlighten me with the thought process behind sharing with the town that you <i>didn't</i> get roles. Also, Empire, why do you want <i>neighbourizer</i> in particular to claim?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJA-ING ME.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

One: You're responding to me when you should be asking baldeagle about vote freezer.

Two: I bid $100 on neighborizer as that's all I have.

Three: Garuda hasn't posted yet.

Four: Empire is part of Garuda. I'm the one who wants the neighborizer to claim. It should be pretty self-explanatory. The scum teams can win together. They have the cop role. Once they find each other, they can communicate through a neighborhood. (This is actually pretty certain. Last game it cost me over $500 to win the neighborizer from scum who had won cop and found the other team.) So, the neighborizer needs to claim so that we can evaluate them and keep track of the neighborhood if need be. Last game we were lucky and town won neighborizer both times and we used it really effectively, and we made public who won the neighborizer.

Fixed broken quote tag.

[Pyrotechnics]

I bidded $20 on it. I tried to go for cop as well, but I didn't win it. (I spent $40 on cop). I didn't want to spend too much money.

P-Edit: No, scum will kill the neighborzier.

Why would they? Scum are going to kill the most town person no matter what their role.

[Pyrotechnics]

Lol, you saw tammy townslip in syr's game and think that's enough, eagle?

What does that have to do with this game?

[Pyrotechnics]

Can anyone that played the first two rounds tell me if scum shared a qt for money actions or used seperate ones? If it's the former, bald is scum.

I'll have to look back, but I'm pretty sure they shared a qt for money actions. Scum (MoI) was caught because can't remember who right now, came into the thread on day one and said "just got back from my qt" and MoI tried to push it as a scumslip because he hadn't read his whole role pm that said he could request a personal qt.

[Pyrotechnics]

There's a dayvig in this game?

Well, last game there was and BB was it. He's probably joking about it this time though.

[Pyrotechnics]

I talk A LOT with Faraday, but mostly on AIM. But for this game, I've been asking Magua five zillion questions about every single role interaction in the hydra QT.

If you asked Magua a zillion questions about every single role interaction, why did you wonder why I wanted the neighborizer to claim?

Fixed broken quote tag.

[Pyrotechnics]

lol at mhork fucking up the quote tags after complaining >_>

[Pyrotechnics]

I submit that whoever won it needs to claim it so that we can evaluate them.

Why?

You were in the last game. Not only were you in the last game, but you were part of the neighborhood in the last game. Why would you ask why?

. Neighborizer is the only way they'll be able to communicate. I want to make sure the neighborizer is town.

...uh, how?

How do you read anyone as town? We can evaluate the neighborizer, which as far as I'm concerned is one of the most important roles right now, just like we do anyone else as well as evaluate the neighborhood.

I don't get the purpose of either of your questions.

Fixed broken quote tag.

[Pyrotechnics]

If the winning amount on the Neighborizer was anything else, I'd agree whoever got it should claim. But it's exactly $100; if Mafia really wanted it, they would have bid that $1 extra. I'm pretty happy to say whoever has it is probtown.

I don't care what you do think. We have no idea how much money the scum team has and how much they actually bid on things. The deadline and the nightkill went for over $100 so we have no idea how much they had left.

I don't understand why town wouldn't want to claim having the neighborhood as there would be absolutely no reason not to.

Let's look at it this way, the person who has the neighborhood is scum? They can not claim and then hold onto it while they cop people to try to find the other team and then neighborhood one of them, then get information for who else to neighborize from the other team. YAY now they can communicate and town has a harder time of winning this game.

If the neighborizer is town, they claim and will be using it night one and two, we can evaluate them and their choices. This is good for town.

Like this shouldn't be too hard for town to understand.

[Pyrotechnics]

Also it was brought up last game that creative scum could bid on things for the express purpose of looking like it was a town bid, so the bid amount means absolutely nothing.

[Pyrotechnics]

Pyrotammy, I'd like to write you off as town, because I feel like your intro to this game has been more in keeping with your town self, but the more I think of it, the more your reasons for voting me REALLY bug me. So I'd like answers.

Firstly, "YOU ASKED MAGUA QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GAME. HOW DID YOU NOT REALIZE THAT NEIGHBOURIZER WAS AN AWESOME ROLE" (my questions were more technical ones about how abilities resolve; also, my point with your post was more "Why would you claim to have bid $100?" than "Why ask the neighbourizer to claim?") is a terrible point, but anyway.

I actually am fine with the people voting me because my claim is fishy (although granted, I'm not exactly sure what the

scum

motivation is for claiming to have bid $80 instead of $100, I'm well aware that the way I claimed looked

weird

).

We only started with $100. All of those items went for over $100.

Ah, scum gets more money? Lame.

So you considered bidding $101 on any of those abilities? Also, what made you decide to bid on Vote Freezer in particular? Did you bid more than $11 on it?

Garuda and upside down, enlighten me with the thought process behind sharing with the town that you <i>didn't</i> get roles. Also, Empire, why do you want <i>neighbourizer</i> in particular to claim?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP NINJA-ING ME.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

One: You're responding to me when you should be asking baldeagle about vote freezer.

Two: I bid $100 on neighborizer as that's all I have.

Three: Garuda hasn't posted yet.

Four: Empire is part of Garuda. I'm the one who wants the neighborizer to claim. It should be pretty self-explanatory. The scum teams can win together. They have the cop role. Once they find each other, they can communicate through a neighborhood. (This is actually pretty certain. Last game it cost me over $500 to win the neighborizer from scum who had won cop and found the other team.) So, the neighborizer needs to claim so that we can evaluate them and keep track of the neighborhood if need be. Last game we were lucky and town won neighborizer both times and we used it really effectively, and we made public who won the neighborizer.

Fixed broken quote tag.

Firstly, this was just when people were starting to throw suspicion on me. Secondly, even if you take into account that you didn't realize I'd got Garuda and you mixed up, I just realized that NONE of this is even alignment relevant. The closest thing to an actual "case" is One...and I

am

asking baldeagle about vote freezer in that post, so...huh?

I couldn't care less whether or not you LIKE why I find you suspicious. If you know me and If you know my town self, you know that I don't think that early game suspicions have to be awesome and you push where something feels off no matter how small it may be. The first point does look like it's questioning me, so it looks really lazy on your part, and it looks like you're throwing something on me just to do it. But what really caught me as off is the calling me Empire and asking questions of Garuda, who hadn't even posted. You'd also know if you recognize me and my town game that the amount of time I pay attention to early game suspicion by other people is about *-* much, so you can't throw that against me either. It just feels off to me that you're getting all of that confused.

You do realize that my question to you about you asking Magua questions about roles is AFTER I had already voted you. So, are you faulting me for questioning you to try to determine your alignment further? Are you serious? You do understand you're the Mina who in a Westeros game asked the mod every single questions available and trapped scum day one because of that? So, yeah, for me that if you asked Magua a million questions about all the role interactions I do wonder why you didn't understand the neighborizer potential problem. If you meant why I claimed to have bid $100, why didn't you ask that. And I don't know why that's such a problem as that's how much I bid, especially when you came out and claimed how much you bid on your role. So, what's your point again?

[Pyrotechnics]

We didn't advertise, obviously, I wanted to keep all our money to try to get neighborizer.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh I didn't even think of the advertising aspect, that makes it even more uncertain that $100 bid on it means it went to town.

[Pyrotechnics]

If it's not up for auction, you can't bid on it. I wanted all of the money I had to bid on what was most important to me.

[Pyrotechnics]

OH. MY. GOD.

I know that Neighbourizer is a dangerous role in the hands of scum in this set-up. I really don't need to ask Magua why (and frankly, anyone who DOESN'T know why isn't scum anyway).

My point is, DON'T TELL THE SCUM WHAT POWER ROLE YOU DON'T HAVE.

"Hey, guys, I bid all my money last night, so I didn't get anything!"

That's the equivalent of claiming vanilla.

You could have still asked the neighbourizer to claim without saying that you had personally bid for the same role and lost. And frankly, that seemed really off coming from Empire (you aren't). I claimed investigation immune because it helps the town to know in whose hands the role is (even if the scum know how much money the person in whose hands it is has).

But anyway, I don't see the point in continuing this, unless it's for your own benefit. You obviously believe what you're arguing.

If you did know how important neighborizer was, then why'd you ask?

Also, it doesn't matter one fig if they know what role I don't have. Last game most people claimed not only what roles they had, but how much money they had. AND HEY guess what??? We won. Like stomped won. Now, I know that Magua made this game less breakable than the last game, but the fundamentals don't matter. I didn't say how much I spent on neighborizer until you asked me, but apparently meant to ask baldeagle how much he spent on vote freezer. You can bid, and win!, more than one role, but it wouldn't matter if I did claim vanilla. If scum have all the important roles, those of you who claimed already narrowed down who is vanilla at this point in time, so what is your point again, because at this point it just looks like you're arguing with me to argue with me. And you look like you're backtracking. "I don't know how important neighborizer is!" "No wait I do It's obvious" "Oh wait thanks for confirming me as town because we didn't know" Which is it?

[Pyrotechnics]

Also, it doesn't matter one fig if they know what role I don't have. Last game most people claimed not only what roles they had, but how much money they had. AND HEY guess what??? We won. Like stomped won. Now, I know that Magua made this game less breakable than the last game, but the fundamentals don't matter. I didn't say how much I spent on neighborizer until you asked me, but apparently meant to ask baldeagle how much he spent on vote freezer. You can bid, and win!, more than one role, but it wouldn't matter if I did claim vanilla. If scum have all the important roles, those of you who claimed already narrowed down who is vanilla at this point in time, so what is your point again, because at this point it just looks like you're arguing with me to argue with me. And you look like you're backtracking. "I don't know how important neighborizer is!" "No wait I do It's obvious" "Oh wait thanks for confirming me as town because we didn't know" Which is it?

Wow, this is pretty scummy.

Nice way to evade the question. As if you and your other head don't know I'm quite obviously town.

[Pyrotechnics]

Already voting you faraday.

[Pyrotechnics]

As if you and your other head don't know I'm quite obviously town.

I'd like to state for the record that this shit you do about calling yourself obvtown really does no good here, tammy.

OHKAY. I am and it's the truth. Ask the butterfly, they'll tell you.

Is there a reason you're not tackling me at 100MPH? Like in all the games I've played with you before you've tried to sort me relatively quickly early.

Which one are you? And where is this ALL the games we've played together. If we've played SO MANY games together that you feel I have a pattern with you then my alignment should be really obvious to you. Like super freaking obvious.

But, let's take a trip down memory lane of both of your heads and you can tell me which one of you I tackled at 100 MPH in the first few pages of the game.

Let's see Mafia.Maiden for ffery - called you town relatively early without tackling.
Hmm....Redwedding for Cabd - I was scum...that doesn't count.
Chef...both of you, so bonus!, was caught up in my suspicion of Amrun early day one (or most of day one) and didn't truly attack either of you until day two, though I will say that Syry had a scum read on Cabd day one for handwaving us, though the attacking at 100mph? sorry.
HardBoiled...both of you, so another bonus! Attacked mara and the nacho hydras day one, didn't question ffery hydra though she questioned me. Didn't fully attack the nacho/cabd hydra until day three.

So, now would you like to explain yourself?

[Pyrotechnics]

I think you're scummy tammy, stop twisting what i'm saying I wrote out my own post i now what i wrote MISREP

No you don't.

[Pyrotechnics]

That was Cabd. I didn't play Mafia.Maiden. Before my time. You're probably thinking of Raptured.

But I agree with Cabd that self-proclaiming obvtown is pretty dumb. If you are BEING obvtown, then other town will see it. Saying so is a waste of effort.

Um so...and so.

[Pyrotechnics]

Tammy, amend the day one part probably, but being on the other end of your.... unique.. method of yelling at me is pretty terrifying and seems to give you results? Chef mafia you guys mislynched me (worth it for the win tho) and I was scared as fuck of you in syr's hard boiled the entire time. I seem to remember getting major heat day one in that game, maybe not?

Also it was me who made that, ffery's been kinda in the back seat most of the evening so far.

Um no in Chef we decided you were town and tried to lynch d3x the day you were lynched. Syry and I were pretty pissed about your lynch. We decided you were leaning town day two, and were trying to solidify that so we could move on.

Day one, you weren't around much but Syry had a scum read on you for what he thought was handwaving. I left the read on you up to him because he hydras with you.

I did go after you early day two to try to get a read on you when we had to reevaluate everything after Amrun was confirmed town to us and we realized our town reads were wrong somewhere.

As far as Syr' hard boiled game, I did have a scum read on you guys, but you weren't around and there was a quick lynch day one.

But none of that matters. You're all "why aren't you sorting me early day one?" When it's clearly obvious I'm trying to sort other people

[Pyrotechnics]

Tammy...I...I really can't tell. Do you...not...realize at

all

that Faraday is trolling you? Like, at

all

? You just seem completely oblivious.

Also, in all fairness, I checked my opening post, and I did say something like "Why neighbourizer in particular?" I mean, honestly, I was surprised that the winning bid on neighbourizer was $100. So I see your point that I was downplaying it; like, yes, it's dangerous in the hands of scum who are really lucky in whom they target, but it's really only situationally useful. I was thinking other roles (Deadline, Hitman, etc.) were more dangerous. I still think your trying to find scum motivation in that is silly, though.

~Mina

I think if Faraday didn't troll me the earth would stop on its axis and start spinning in the wrong direction, and the end of time would occur.

Again, I'll say early game I find it beneficial to push whatever seems off. You know this about me because I've been criticized for going after poor things early game all the time. I do find it odd, and I still find it a little odd, because it seems like you can't figure out what exactly you meant about the neighborizer role. And it's not situational or just inherently lucky. Scum have cop which means if they have neighborizer they're at a distinct advantage.

[Pyrotechnics]

thank you for posting that. I was just looking back to show that the scum team did have a qt for money talks.

[Pyrotechnics]

thank you for posting that. I was just looking back to show that the scum team did have a qt for money talks.

No problem, in return I want your cat

(just kidding ew)

you can't have my cat

(he's playing fetch right now and it's super cute though)

[Pyrotechnics]

Nacho hasn't posted.

[Pyrotechnics]

scumhunting the other team

I may be mistaken but I thought left and right are still working together they just don't know who each other are? Am I wrong here?

No, you're not wrong.

[Pyrotechnics]

scumhunting the other team

I may be mistaken but I thought left and right are still working together they just don't know who each other are? Am I wrong here?

Eh, I think it's more complicated than you're suggesting. MoI was pushing a scumread on our slot in the last Marketplace game. I remember reading both the Mafia and the Dead QTs last game and he did in fact genuinely scumread our slot as opposite scum. He pushed us in thread and I'm thinking he chose to because he was looking for something genuine to talk about as opposed to being forced to generate fake content, if that makes any sense (multiball is weird).

Yes and he also pushed seanald after mattye caught him who was on his own team while seanald copped graygnarl, got a guilty on him and claimed an innocent and then tried to get neighborizer to communicate with them. (Multiball is weird, but when they can win together it's weirder)

Can you please comment on my idea that neighborizer should claim because I know you have to have read to that part especially since it was like the first post. Thanks.

[Pyrotechnics]

So something Faraday has done before was claim miller just to see if a real miller would counterclaim him, and then retract it. We decided to run with something similar here.

In this game, it has less utility (since we know what roles in the game, and anyone could counter us), but we thought that if we claimed to have won something antitown, we could possibly get someone to look really town by their reaction (or possibly give away knowing outside information).

For a while, I was debating between claiming Hitman and Investigation Immune. At first, we wanted Hitman, because we thought a scum investigation immune player would be more likely to counterclaim us. (Before we got our role PMs, we'd considered a scum strategy would be to bid on investigation immunity, claim it to look town, and then transfer it to a teammate and give him cop protection). Hitman is more likely something scum wouldn't claim--particularly since WE look scummy if a NK goes through that shouldn't have.

But then I thought about it, and realized we should choose Inv. Immune for the opposite reason. Town will almost certainly claim either Hitman or Scum. But scum is much more likely to claim Investigation Immune than Hitman for town cred. So if

we

claim Investigation Immune (and scum has it), they go, "Score! They're probably on the other Mafia Faction and signalling to us!" Or capitalize on the confusion and say nothing. So the object was also to reduce the chance of

scum

claiming inv. immune (and then passing it on). (Actually, now I just realized that it might have been better to let them claim it and be held accountable. OOPS.)

HOWEVER, my major mistake in the plan: not accounting for the fact that scum are confirmed to have cop right now. I'd thought of this before seeing the auction results, and didn't take into account the fact that the investigation immune role is no longer even a

threat

to town when the scum have cop.

So...long story short: I should have claimed Hitman.

e]

There's not a doctor tonight either.

If faraday had run similar gambits, why would you be so shamed by empire to rush in here and stop your gambit. I just don't see faraday folding to empires position, not if he thought what you guys were doing was in the best intentions for the town.

[Pyrotechnics]

If someone gets Neighborized N1, then I think it's more likely that the slot with that power is town.

(You probably should have at least not revealed that, since it's at least a vaguely subtle role interaction that might not be thought of)

I'd also say the neighbouriser just claiming day 2 is effectively the same as day 1, anyway. I don't think I'd be wanting to claim neighbouriser if I had it, for instance.

I don't believe you think this.

And considering I already played out this scenario, he didn't reveal anything new.

[Pyrotechnics]

Can you please comment on my idea that neighborizer should claim because I know you have to have read to that part especially since it was like the first post. Thanks.

I have an idea cooking up that's kind of a compromise. I don't know if it's any good though.

My thought process is this: I obviously see the dangers of scum winning the power but it could also be immensely powerful for town (doubly so given the number of hydras here) and I don't want the Neighborizer instantly claiming if town and then dying immediately. But what about the slot that gets Neighborized claiming on D2? The potential Neighborizer / Cop combo is ineffective if both are used N1. If someone gets Neighborized N1, then I think it's more likely that the slot with that power is town.

I don't know this all sounded decent in my head. What do you think?

Possibly. I just think that part of what helped us win the last game was transparency in the town. I don't see why the neighborizer is going yo instantly die, it's not that powerful of a role in the hands of town.

[Pyrotechnics]

Can you please comment on my idea that neighborizer should claim because I know you have to have read to that part especially since it was like the first post. Thanks.

I have an idea cooking up that's kind of a compromise. I don't know if it's any good though.

My thought process is this: I obviously see the dangers of scum winning the power but it could also be immensely powerful for town (doubly so given the number of hydras here) and I don't want the Neighborizer instantly claiming if town and then dying immediately. But what about the slot that gets Neighborized claiming on D2? The potential Neighborizer / Cop combo is ineffective if both are used N1. If someone gets Neighborized N1, then I think it's more likely that the slot with that power is town.

I don't know this all sounded decent in my head. What do you think?

Possibly. I just think that part of what helped us win the last game was transparency in the town. I don't see why the neighborizer is going yo instantly die, it's not that powerful of a role in the hands of town.

And it was only powerful in the hands of town because we were all working together last game. 16 pages in and I have no hopes of synergy like that happening here.

[Pyrotechnics]

I don't believe you think this.

i'd ask you to explain the disadvantages of waiting but I don't think you actually can

Possibly. I just think that part of what helped us win the last game was transparency in the town. I don't see why the neighborizer is going yo instantly die, it's not that powerful of a role in the hands of town.

and that's kind of not true, depending on if it gets lucky with a neighbourise or whatever. the only advantage of having the neighbouriser claim today is...we know who the neighbouriser is and can judge their targets. if they claim tomorrow we can do the exact same thing and they've stayed hidden for a night. if scum have it they're probably not going to be willing to claim it either way (or are, and this won't change depending on when we make them claim)

Can you double speak more please? You just literally said that claiming on day two is effectively the same as claiming on day one. Can you please at least pretend to believe what you're saying? I mean a little?

I just think that town you guys who supposedly came up with the game breaking plan to claim a game breaking role in the hopes of gaining reactions would be interested in actually trying to develop a plan for town here, but you're not. You're more interested in sideline sniping, trolling, and "gambits" than any thing else.

[Pyrotechnics]

are you clinically fucking retarded or can you just not read?

Maybe but you're a clinical fucking jerk.

Oh and hey that doesn't make you town.

Now, why are you (lol) comparing voided to mhork?

[Pyrotechnics]

Yes please, because I'm functionally retarded, and then when you do I'd kindly like for you to assess the actual players in question and explain to me why you are expecting lord mhork to respond the same as voided because that would fucking own

[Pyrotechnics]

<here are reasons for why i don't think it matters and in fact there may even be an advantage for claiming day 2>

<I AM TAMMY AND I CANNOT READ>

im attacking ur literacy are you mad?

Nope I actually think it's pretty sad that you have to insult people but hey that's you. Hope you feel better for it.

[Pyrotechnics]

Yes please, because I'm functionally retarded, and then when you do I'd kindly like for you to assess the actual players in question and explain to me why you are expecting lord mhork to respond the same as voided because that would fucking own

Because I fucking asked him to compare their responses?

So.

[Pyrotechnics]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

Here faraday. I would expect you to recognize that there are player differences, and this is looking like you're not taking that into account.

[Pyrotechnics]

what just happened did tammy scumclaim

Nope, but I did admit to being functionally retarded!

Which I'd have to be to think town could work together in this game again when no one actually will.

[Pyrotechnics]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

[Pyrotechnics]

actually I kind of liked his response to empire's vote.

How do you think it differs from Lord Mhork's reaction to you? And to what extent do you think the difference is due to follow-up vs vote?

I don't understand the last bit? I think the difference comes in the directness of voided and the way he meets empire (a stronger player) head on. mhork just kind of beats around the bush, presses questions, treats me as town and then is like "i'm not scum, this is a mislynch". do you think i'm not being objective because he's voting me or something, because whle it's possible I don't think it's what's happening here.

Okay, that doesn';t actually say that, or imply that so I can only conclude you have a dirty computer screen that can't let you read my posts.

You are voting for mhork are you not? You do like voided's response to empire ( a strong player) do you not? You think that mhorks response to you (a strong player) is not as good as voided's do you not?

My problem is that voided is a strong player so I would expect something strong from him, while mhork isn't as strong so the comparison without acknowledging player differences feels off to me. And I can't remember a time when town you went after a weaker player for displaying weaker player tendencies.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm going to bed, but quick strategy thoughts:

1) What do people think about a mass-advertisement claim (which we use to find out how much money is on each ability), and then a coordinated advertisement campaign? I originally wanted just to claim

what

we'd bid on, so scum wouldn't know how to stop it, but maybe each town can pledge to pay a certain amount so that abilities aren't lost. The obvious caveat is that scum know by how much to outbid us, though. But something like, "These two players are responsible for advertising however much they want on these three abilities, these players for advertising these ones," etc. Is that more trouble than it's worth?

2)

*pokes Tammy with a stick*

To be honest, I'm sick of Neighbourizers right now. What's the obsession with them being so dangerous? I actually think it's a protown power in this set-up (although it becomes strongly proscum in really specific instances). You can transfer money with a town read, plan gambits, claim role information, buy abilities, etc. Meanwhile, if scum have neighbourizer, then there's nothing we can do about it to stop them communicating with the other team. It's not something like Investigation Immune that we can plan around. Garuda's plan of having the neighboree claim D2 is a good compromise, but that doesn't stop scum from just using the second shot to neighbourize a partner.

3) @Empire: I was thinking "This is a list of townies and this is a list of not-townies. These not-townies must send money to the townies every night, but don't claim which one. Afterwards, if the townies a certain not-townie claims to have sent money to keep winding up dead, not-townie starts looking fishy." I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

The next couple of days will be mostly Mina posting, so expect shittier reads and fewer votes!

Why couldn't this have been the posts earlier and not trolling with abandon?

The advertising campaign is something we did last game and worked out well.

The neighborizer can be really protown and I never suggested it couldn't. I mentioned that I had won neighborizer last game, that town had won it both times it was up for auction and used it effectively. For instance, Mehdi won neighborizer and made it public that he was neighborizing me night one. Because we were both strong town reads we all knew the neighborizer was in town hands. Once in the neighborhood, he transferred all of his money to me, and we had several other people transferring money to me, such that when neighborizer came up again, after the scum who had won the cop role had found one of the other team with it, we won it again because they didn't realize that I had as much money as I had. We made schedules for who would bid on what. Everything was really transparent and it worked really really well. (And for instance we *did* plan town gambits in the neighborhood, once mehdi and I were the ones in control of the neighborhood and everyone had a town read on us for the most part who was in the neighborhood wasn't even a thing beyond the two of us because people trusted us. We were able to through the neighborhood recoordinate the bids that we had publicly claimed to have. So for instance, I was put on the schedule to get the night kill, but Mattye really took it so that scum wouldn't know some things, but we had that because we had trust because we had transparency and people willing to work together in that game, which unfortunately doesn't look like we actually have here, so whatever.)

And we can plan around neighborizer and I can't see why you can't see that. We can evaluate who has it and we can suggest nominations for who gets neighborized.

[Pyrotechnics]

(actually I think I was neighborized night two because he neighborized empire night one and they died partly because of a total lack of transparency (voided was a doc who tried to protect them but mattye were roleblockers who were suspicious of voided and blocked him) so, the nights don't matter as the benefit of the neighborhood was the same.

[Pyrotechnics]

3) The last game was won by forming a public town bloc and having suspicious people / non-townreads transfer their money over to the townies. Magua mentioned after the last game and IIRC in the dead QT that he was going to make sure this did not happen in the next installment. The signups thread also talks about making transferring less efficient. I combed the Rules with a comb and noticed something in the Mafia role PM – take a look at where it says “Wire Fraud” under the section called “Dirty Tricks”. The mafia have an ability where they must choose a transferor and a transferee. I’m guessing that this is the mechanic Magua was referring to and that this probably means the mafia have some way of fucking with publicly announced transfers of money. I’m still trying to figure out some way around this as I think this game has similar potential to be broken. One of the ideas I’ve been kicking around is to have a publicly announced town bloc but without announcing any transferors (in other words, the mafia won’t get to know where the money comes from). It’s not foolproof but at least it leaves mafia guessing. We could also do this the old fashioned way (and I’m guessing this is the way Magua wants us to do it if at all) by not having any announced town bloc and just privately transferring money to townreads. Open to suggestions here.

^Tammy would like to see your response to this + any other suggestions you might have, thanks in advance.

This is a good part of why we won the last game. We had a strong town block and scum were pretty accurately identified by mid day one (or at least we didn't have any scum in our town block, so we weren't transferring any extra money to scum).

Transferring is less efficient as I think that transferred amount was 90% last game whereas it's 80% this game. The transferring of that much money allowed us to gain control of the nightkill more than one night as well as the neighborizer.

The transferring of money also helped us to have more faith in the early suspicious individuals as if they didn't transfer their money to us, they would be regarded as more suspect.

One thing we had last game that we don't have this game is investing. I can't remember how much money we could make on investing, but I know I spent a couple nights investing money and getting money transferred to me and ended up with quite a bit of money that I could outbid even the pooled mafia. But we don't have investing anymore. Regardless, we were really transparent about most things last game and it worked really well.

HOWEVER, last game we had a group of people who were willing to work together and unfortunately I just don't have high hopes for that happening in this game. I guess that will be less of a pessimistic outlook if the majority of scum have been posting tonight and the remainder of town can come together starting tomorrow, but I doubt we can be that lucky.

Anyway, it's late and I need to go to sleep. Talk tomorrow.

[Pyrotechnics]

Okay so I just read through the advertising stuff and we can't advertise for an ability to show up again until all things have been moved out of the not yet auctioned column (if Im reading this wrong, let me know.) Which means that cop or neighborizer can't be auctioned again until probably night three or four. I still maintain that neighborizer should not be advertised again.

Also, the person who's neighbored day two doesn't solve the OMG scum might kill the neighborizer, which why would they especially if they think they have a chance of getting neighborized. They could easily neighborize someone night one and get that town cred and then kill the neighborizer night two or the neighbor night two and neighborize scum night two if they find scum night one with the cop.

I don't know I just think we have the opportunity to direct a town power if it's in town's hands and minimalize the damage it if it's in scum's hands. But my clinical retadation is probably keeping me from thinking clearly.

[Pyrotechnics]

For instance, Mehdi won neighborizer and made it public that he was neighborizing me night one.

Wait, Mehdi claimed to neighborize you N1? I thought that we only knew who won it and the people she neighborized were kept under wraps until it was necessary to speak?

I corrected myself in the next post. He kept quiet about neighborizer D1 and neighborized empirefan, but he claimed it day two and made it public that he would neighborize me. It was also made public that I was buying the neighborizer that night as scum had advertised it. After that we kept quiet who we neighborized and noone asked who was in there. But it was made public.

That didn't take long.

[Pyrotechnics]

Lol, whoever did that is probably scum. Which sucks, because we still have a few people who haven't post at all. But, the good advantage is, we get waaaaaay more money, so scum is practically giving us money.

I didn't advertise on N0. What we really need, is people to start talking.

P-Edit: So LB is town because I'm pushing for his lynch? I think he's scummy. Yeah, I don't like that read for calling him town.

I don't think we get more money though. We only get more money if we lynch before deadline, since the deadline was moved up, we're not lynching early.

[Pyrotechnics]

That's actually

great

news. Scum just blew what was one of the most dangerous abilities in the game on D1, so later on, when it's more important to coordinate actions, we can strategize uninterrupted. And this also leaves the door wide open for us to use Wage Freeze.

They'll still be able to advertise it again in a couple days.

[Pyrotechnics]

Can you explain why exactly you thought this, though:

Oh wow that's actually a really good point. Pyro just jumped up, like, three town notches for me.

This is the post from Pyro, and it's really, really banal (not to mention untrue):

I bidded $20 on it. I tried to go for cop as well, but I didn't win it. (I spent $40 on cop). I didn't want to spend too much money.

P-Edit: No, scum will kill the neighborzier.

Why would they? Scum are going to kill the most town person no matter what their role.

is it really really banal Mina? Is it. I would like to know how often as town you decide to underhandedly discredit the points of people you are town reading. You know for a fact scum don't always just kill someone because of a role. They often kill who the most town person is or who is a threat, so reducing it to a role based on paranoia isn't actually accurate.

And what made you think he was responding to that statement. That would be a ridiculous statement to give a townread for. Not only that but the time stamps are in the same exact minute. When he made that post I thought he was referring to my post a couple up in which I pointed out that since scum have cop they could use neighborizer to coordinate with each other if they found each other.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh I did the math, and that is the amount of money he should have if he did those things.

[Pyrotechnics]

What has cabd come up with on the game mechanics end?

[Pyrotechnics]

Okay syry read the game this morning and our basic reads are this: butterfly is scum, he thinks voided is scum as fuck right along with them. I'm more neutral on voided as I think I've suspected voided in every game we've played so I'm a bit more hesitant. He's a little more of something I can't put my finger on in this game. He thinks mhork is 300% scum and I disagree. He had me read through luplozke mafia for tone and I dint really see it so. Besides at this point I don't see him being scum. Nero Cain could be scum, and he's suspicious of eagle.

We think that Garuda is town. Empire made a post or two I don't see coming from scum so yay there we can get our masonry started. Molly town, zdenek town, pro hawk crazy town, muffin town.

So that's where we're at. He's neutral on morph, I'm leaning scum ATM.

[Pyrotechnics]

*molla he's cross dressing in that last post

[Pyrotechnics]

Okay so what we should do with our limited quasi town block in training is have people were not so show about advertise the roles we want up for auction so that the people we want to have those roles will have maximum money. We could direct certain people to get certain things. Although we might want to not make public who's getting the doctor.

[Pyrotechnics]

We could work on a money transfer that could be helpful too, but it would probably have to be kept more secret that the last game.

[Pyrotechnics]

]

Player	Advertised n0	Bid on n0
VoidedMafia
PeregrineV
Nero Cain
Seanald
guille2015
Lost Butterfly (a hydra of Faraday and Mina)
Garuda (a hydra of Empire and Nachomamma8)
Pyrotechnics (a hydra of Syryana and Tammy)	adv 0	bid on neigh, didn't get it
morph the cat (a hydra of Cabd and fferyllt)
BBmolla
Banakai
Harakiri (hydra of Natirasha and Sakura Hana)
uʍop ǝpısdn (a hydra of N and Quilford)	Cop and Medium	everything - didn't win any
zMuffinMan
Hermy
ProHawk
Lord Mhork
Zdenek
1baldeagle1
DoctorPepper
Klick

Everyone fill yourselves in!

I'd give more details for exactly how much we bid on things, but I don't know if that's a good idea.

[Pyrotechnics]

Ok.

Sad.

I'm a little discouraged that we'll be able to work effectively together night 1.

Cabd and I are going to talk some of this over and then decide what our best course of action is.

It will probably involve sending funds to someone we think is both town and making sense. e.g. someone not Pyrotechnics.

?

[Pyrotechnics]

No I was questioning your last statement. The eg not pyrotechnics part.

Does that mean you've already put some to get watcher/doc up tonight?

[Pyrotechnics]

No I was questioning your last statement. The eg not pyrotechnics part.

Does that mean you've already put some to get watcher/doc up tonight?

That was ffery upset at you for sucking at reading us. And yes, instead of bidding we paid some vital abilities forward. We mentioned it earlier.

I've correctly read both of you in all our games together (eventually) but I also don't think ffery's scum game is as bsd as she thinks it is and will be a bit more cautious.

[Pyrotechnics]

We'll be waiting.

Well we had hoped in chef mafia to make the tria-hydra town bloc but ffery was evil and tried to kill us and cabd wasn't really playing. So cautious it is.

[Pyrotechnics]

None of the things you posted is *why* I suspect you though. It's gut and tone. You just decided I suspected you for some reason that didn't enter my mind. The the claim and unclaimed thing, I only found it odd that you would be shamed into dropping something you hoped would be protown because empire said he didn't want any gambits. I get that cabd asked the question about voided and mhork, but even still the comparison strikes me as off because it's not actually taking into account the players involved. So expecting mhork to behave the same way a strong confident player played read off. It wouldn't have read off if there was accounting for that in there. To me, it looked like faraday was doing what he does when he's scum and that's go after what is "scummy" while when town he actually looks for the scum.

And you're right I haven't reevaluated anything yet, but why are you expecting me to jump to it today? I'm extremely busy right now and have done nothing but grading today and getting stuff ready for the 5 evaluations I'm getting this week. So you can shove those long reasoned posts right now especially considering the game hasn't been open for very long. Stop having these overblown expectations for me.

And Ftr all day long when I've caught up I've wanted to read you as town, I really have, because they superficially look townish. But I know you and I know how good you are at mimicking your town play, and I go he this sounds fake. Your posts to mhork have just really rubbed me the wrong way. and I was just kinda hoping to see some protown plan being put in motion, especially since you asked a zillion questions, but there's really not anything. And that might not be a fair expectation, but I am waiting to see that thing that will flip the switch.

Even your rant at me I want to go, oh that's definitely town Mina, never mind, but I also know you're capable of mimicking that too.

Syry doesn't post much in hydras. He only comes out when I yell at him to or when he's going to yell or dance with someone.

Going to bed now.

[Pyrotechnics]

Mhork - it's based on the luzlocke game that was abandoned. He thinks you have a similar tone to that game. I think he's wrong.

[Pyrotechnics]

So I guess the point I was trying and failing to make was not why are you comparing them but why are you having the same expectations for how they would behave.

[Pyrotechnics]

That's what I thought mhork, but he said the similarities were in town, which I don't see so...

[Pyrotechnics]

*tone

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm too tired to give a more substantial response to Tammy, but if you'd said all this in the first place, Faraday and I would have been a lot less tetchy in response.

Frankly, sometimes I feel like I'm in a never-ending arms race between my scum and town game when I play with people I know well. I can't look obvtown every second. I can't always have a breaking strategy or concern myself with appearances or be attentive to every single detail in the thread or always be emotional/spontaneous/whatever it is "town Mina" sounds like. And after a certain point, there's only so much I can up the ante by. There isn't anything I can do to defend against a case like that other than say, "Well, yeah, I

can

fake my town meta decently sometimes. So I guess...just be lucky I got a town PM?"

The woes of being a sociopath.

I also think you're overrating my skill as town. You said I have overblown expectations of you--don't you think the reverse is true if you're attacking me for not having broken the entire game in twenty-four hours? (I mean, I'm perfectly happy with the ratio of scumhunting-to-theory-discussion I've done this game.)

Faraday can answer the thing about Voidedmafia and Lord Mhork himself, since I don't think I've played much with Voided and am not sure of his skill level.

I'm curious to know why Syryana is scumreading us, though. He doesn't know anything about our scum meta.

@Mhork: our push on you was real. If we're talking about the same thing, then I was asking why you were calling us scum but also seemed to believe we had actual conviction in our push on you. I'm also kind of curious to why you decided to single out BBmolla on your wagon. Beyond that, that's it.

I can relate to the problems of expectations of being obvtown.

As far as me not saying what I said the first night, that's a load of crap. In your hyperbolic rant about my egregious misreps and me literally quoting everything you said and misinterpretting it, you were way far off. There was some miscommunication earlier,

in which you don't seem to want to accept some of it was on your part ie asking me a question about why I wanted neighborizer to claim when apparently you meant to ask me a different question entirely.

never mind you do. I never even made a case on you, but you were quick to point out the nonexistent case you assumed was a case where stupid, no wait braindead, reasons to suspect you when you just felt off and every post you made felt more and more off.

But you know I did elaborate on the point I was making to Faraday about the comparison between Mhork and Voided. here here and here which I guess it was just more fun to insult me and make fun of me for incorrectly assuming I didn't realize that Faraday was trolling me early, which I think my responses to him were pretty obvious that I knew he was trolling me but whatever. And maybe I didn't get my point across clearly of what I was asking him, because I was trying to make sense of his reads to make sense of him, but you should cut the functionally retarded some slack.

And I never said Oh mina you should have this game broken already. But it did seem odd to me that having asked Magua a million questions about the setups and the roles, there wasn't much of a hint of trying to come up with a plan or coordinate something for town. (And no I don't expect for Faraday to do anything other than troll. And yes, your strategy post could be written by either alignment, but it was nice to see something that was proactive, something that I would expect from someone who had thought about the game enough to ask the mod a bunch of questions.) It's just something that I would have liked to have seen earlier. And really the only person that actually seemed interested in some protown coordination that night was Empire and to a lesser extent Voided. And my overdefensiveness about the neighborizer thing is nothing like the BSG thing but cute of you to bring that up. And it did seem odd to me that someone who asked a bunch of questions to the mod about the roles would find it so strange that I would want the neighborizer to claim. And instead of attacking me for omg claiming I didn't get it and later on attacking me for admitting how much I bid, I find it odd that you didn't actually try to come up with a plan that would be beneficial for the town. If I recall correctly, Empire was the only one to think of a way that the neighborizer could stay hidden but be evaluated.

What is overblown, and still annoys me to some extent, is your comparing at least two weeks to a month of me trying to determine your alignment by asking questions and talking about your meta and reasoning out my read on you and trying to claim that I'm not doing something that took me a month to do in another game in the space of 24 hours here. Like I just read that paragraph again, and I can't believe you actually wrote that. And the thing is I can't believe that you actually believed that enough to write it. I don't know I'm just going to shut up right now because I just think that with the way your slot interacted with me that night you really don't have a right to talk down to me. Maybe there were some communication issues and some of it was my fault, but you assumed reasonings for things that I didn't have. You felt off, you still feel off, and me trying to reason out why you felt wrong when you asked about things as I was trying to determine it myself doesn't make me braindead.

[Pyrotechnics]

not scum, Tammy. Go away.

Show me.

[Pyrotechnics]

Garuda - Did you guys ever answer what it was about Klick's one post that gave you both a scum read?

[Pyrotechnics]

VOTE: hermy

[Pyrotechnics]

By the way, Mina, thoughts on what we should actually advertise? I want to get some things like doctor, bulletproof, and commuter up in this personally.

I'm not mina, but I think those things are good to advertise. Also, I was just realizing that the two items that get the lowest bids will be removed from the list.

List of not yet auctioned:

Abductor x 1
Accountant x 2
Auction Detective x 2
Bodyguard x 2
Bulletproof x 2
Commuter x 1
Coroner x 2
Doctor x 2
Federal Reserve Chairman x 1
Forensic Accountant x 2
Gift Card x 2
Governor x 1
Love Potion x 1
Market Analyst x 3
Messenger x 2
Night Kill x1
Ninja x 4
Roleblocker x 3
Self-Watch x 1
Tailor x 3
Tracker x 2
Vote Nullifier x 1
Wage Freeze x 1
Watcher x 1

------

It might be good to pick a few of these and not have anything advertised on them so that the important ones don't get tossed aside and not able to reappear until night 3 or 4 when we start recycling. We could also put together a list of who should be doing some advertising so we make sure those things get advertised and not dropped off.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm not sure if that's the same as your plan, or if the not-townies are a crucial new element.

Slumberparty had both townies and not-townies involved in transferring, so I think it's pretty much the same. Gather up a good chunk of townies, and have another (not necessarily the same size) chunk of non-townies transfer to them without specifying who. Said townies should probably also not claim just how much they got through transfers unless it's necessary to figure out if scum won an ability during an auction or if.

I may have to reread through the rules again, but I don't think there was something put in place to prevent us from having specific people buy specific things, and I also believe that it would be necessary to at least have cash claims from anyone who's not town (perhaps even from everyone, but like I outlined above it may not be a good idea for the group of townies to say just how much they got so scum don't know how many people transferred to who). I'm not a setup expert, but I think it's possible to have non-townies A.) have a set amount of cash after they claim how much they have be set aside for transfers, then B.) Have another set amount of cash they will use each night to advertise certain PRs. Next, each of these non-townies will be designated to buy certain items with the money they should have from the transfers; no specific amounts, but they should at least give some kind of minimum number ("I have at least $300" "I have at least $500", etc.) to work with. This kind of plan may not necessarily be in place for tonight as no one should really have over $150 unless they did absolutely nothing with their money, but it should work from D2 or D3 onward.

There might be a problem in how transferees can catch scum who give lower amounts than they're supposed to, but idk if that's a good tradeoff for limiting scum's ability to use that wiretap ability.

Voided this is what I was referring to when I said you were showing some early signs of coordination.

[Pyrotechnics]

P-edit: Voided, I feel like Seanald would have probably more of an attempt to be "helpful" as scum though? He certainly didn't have a problem trying to look pro-town in the last game as scum by attacking Tammy early despite a fast moving thread and then being apologetic when his attack backfired.

Get out of my head.

[Pyrotechnics]

I wouldn't characterise voided as a strong player tammy, he was pretty easy to mislynch in black flag because he has the kind of wall of text style that I'm pretty sure no one reads.

Wait, I thought I got mislynched for more than that? I could've sworn I was wagoned on for, like, believing that Sixty was town when everyone else thought they were scum or something.

No. >_>

If that were the case we'd have lynched almost everyone as Empire and I were the only ones convinced they were scum. I just remember thinking you came across as pretty scummy overall, but can't exactly remember why.

And Faraday, I didn't mean strong player in the sense that he can avoid getting mislynched or always has correct scum reads (no offense voided) but strong in the sense of personality. It's been awhile since I've meta'd voided, but I don't remember him being the type of player that wouldn't stand up to someone in a relatively strong manner no matter his alignment. Whereas Mhork isn't that type as much, or at least from what I've read and remember. I could just see Mhork getting intimidated by a strong aggressive player and that's the type of variable I was trying to see if you were taking into account. He does stand up for himself but the language he uses isn't sometimes as strong (except when he gave the speech about you being an asshole, which was beautiful :p )

I was trying to see if you were looking below the surface or just construing someone as scum because they exhibited traditionally scummy behavior that could be exploited.

[Pyrotechnics]

Love potion can't be used in 3p LyLo

[Pyrotechnics]

Abductor x 1: More useful to town than scum. Decent, but I prefer the other protective roles on the list.
Auction Detective x 2: Very potluck, but has the potential correctly, gives you a 1/__ chance of getting a guilty if you hit scum (just ask if a player won Cop, Deadline, or NK on N0).
Bodyguard x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum. Good for someone scummy to pick up.
Bulletproof x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum. Good for one of the trusted town bloc players to pick up.
Commuter x 1: Meh since it's one-shot, and is situationally useful for scum.
Coroner x 2: Useful in conjunction with Auction Detective. Otherwise, not that useful.
Doctor x 2: Useful for town, useless for scum.
Federal Reserve Chairman x 1: Meh. Since there are more townies than scum, that means more money is going in town's hands than scum's. But the advantage isn't as meaningful knowing that scum can coordinate more effectively.
Forensic Accountant x 2: Like coroner, useful in tandem with Auction Detective, but there are much better abilities.
Governor x 1: Situationally useful for town, dangerous in the hands of scum.
Love Potion x 1: Really dangerous if scum get it in LYLO.
Market Analyst x 3: Meh (only situationally useful)
Messenger x 2: Mediocre--can be used for gambits in the hands of town or scum.
Ninja x 4: No (duh).
Roleblocker x 3: No because it's a red power, so scum have a secret advantage in bidding for it.
Self-Watch x 1: Meh.
Tailor x 3: No no no.
Tracker x 2: Yes, because in this set-up, it's easy to catch someone useful.
Vote Nullifier x 1: Antitown (but that didn't stop someone from advertising Vote Freeze).
Wage Freeze x 1: It's free money in the hands of town, so better than nothing, but not as powerful as some of the others.
Watcher x 1: Yes (watchers are a broken role).

I feel like we should be advertising only one of Doctor / Abductor and that Doctor should clearly be the one getting top priority.
Auction Detective is a decent pick too just for the potential of guiltying someone with it (even if it is not very big). Maybe not a whole lot of money spent here?
Bodyguard / Bulletproof / Commuter (which functions as a BP in essence) are all must-haves and absolutely need to be advertised. I am curious as to what would happen if we force scum to BG the NK target as it says that the NK fails if one scum team targets another scum.
Wage Freeze could be incredibly useful and at the very least it's worth having up there. FRC is a maybe.
I don't think we should be putting anything towards potentially negative utility stuff like governor unless there's some plan I haven't fully thought about to take these things off the market for scum?

Why do you only want to advertise one of abductor/doctor? I think that abductor is useful and if it's not advertised it runs the chance of being removed from the list. What did you think of my suggestion of picking a few we definitely don't want and making sure that those don't get advertised at all so they have a good chance of dropping off the list over the useful ones. Or are you not reading my posts

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm in the midst of catching up on all games tonight and will be back later. However some of this questioning of Prohawk is really really silly. I'd say his refusal, blatant refusal, to vote Hermy day one is a pretty good indication that he believed hermy was town. Just saying.

We don't care about the town bloc, because we don't have strong town reads on anyone in said town block besides possibly muffinman. (Also, Syry has already scolded me for letting faraday goad me by his trolling so you can try but it won't work.)

I am a bit confused over why scum made the deadline shorter if they weren't even going to try to take out someone they thought was obvtown though especially when there was no healing role last night.

And to reiterate we advertised nothing night 0 and we advertised abductor last night. bbl

[Pyrotechnics]

you changed your mind about mhork?

Please don't walk through my lines of questioning, they're known to unravel if you paw at them.

Which one of you posted this?

[Pyrotechnics]

Also I don't get why people are voting ProHawk? Overstating a correct read after the fact isn't scummy (it's something I've done A LOT as town) and the fact that he seemingly preferred a no lynch is pretty clear evidence that he did actually believe Hermy was obvtown, come on.

Plus a lot of his posts today remind me of Xenologue, will explain when at my PC.

Why aren't you annoyed that I'm questioning your placement in the town-bloc?

[Pyrotechnics]

Why aren't you annoyed that I'm questioning your placement in the town-bloc?

I just got back to my PC and I skimmed through the thread while I was at my friend's.

Anyway, I don't even get why you're questioning when you yourself even realized last Day phase that I'd never play like this as scum (nevermind the fact that I've written the majority of the posts in a hydra with a guy who enjoys playing as scum) and I'd really rather not have to deal with this bullshit paranoia in this game when you know very well the best way to win is via cooperation so please let me know when you get over this phase, thanks in advance (also, P.S.: LB is still town, sorry).

Cool. What do you think of Morph the Cat?

Also, it's not paranoia, I do think a couple of your posts seem like ones you wouldn't make as scum, but you also don't feel real. And this response is exactly what I would expect for you to say to me regardless of alignment. I don't like that it literally took me asking you to respond to my read on you to give this to me. And considering the fact that I've been trying to get town to work together since my very first post, you don't get to pull this on me. Oh cooperate with me or you're anti-town. And, you know what, sorry, when LB actually start acting and sounding like town, I might start reading them that way. That goes for you too.

[Pyrotechnics]

The only townreads I'm confident enough to put into a bloc right now are LB and Pyro because I can't imagine Mina and Tammy respectively posting some of the stuff they have in this game. I'm hoping to induct some new folks into it during this Day phase and actually get a more coherent strategy going on here.

If you can sort Tammy I'll be delighted. I see your point about Tammy and Mina's posts, though.

Why aren't you trying to sort me? Why haven't you been? You've been more interested in trying to characterise me as some sort of fragmenting Vi sort, but =5380764]this post makes absolutely no sense from you guys as town. This suggests you have a town read on us, but instead of working with us you dismiss us. You then several times suggest we're possibly town but in no way try to work with us or sort us as you should if you were town. Where are your questions to sort our reads? Where's the inquisitiveness?

[Pyrotechnics]

Ok.

Sad.

I'm a little discouraged that we'll be able to work effectively together night 1.

Cabd and I are going to talk some of this over and then decide what our best course of action is.

It will probably involve sending funds to someone we think is both town and making sense. e.g. someone not Pyrotechnics.

I'm referring to this post. I don't know why it won't post.

pedit: why aren't you trying to sort that out or get us to town read your town pile? I would expect the both of you to be a bit more proactive about that, but you're not. You're like lalalalala you're scumreading our townreads hahahahaha. But you're not trying to find a commonality, and that makes literally no sense from either of you.

[Pyrotechnics]

So, how about it. What are your current thoughts on LB?

Are you asking me? We don't have a town read on LB, but I think that would be pretty clear if you were actually reading our posts.

[Pyrotechnics]

If Syr ever shows up, I'm pretty sure he won't have any trouble at all sorting at least the ffery half of this hydra.

Get the fuck out of my thread, so fery and I can have a little chat.

[Pyrotechnics]

If Syr ever shows up, I'm pretty sure he won't have any trouble at all sorting at least the ffery half of this hydra.

Get the fuck out of my thread, so fery and I can have a little chat.

The funniest part of this is that it was her that made that post.

Guess how many fucks I give. Beat it.

[Pyrotechnics]

Ok.

Sad.

I'm a little discouraged that we'll be able to work effectively together night 1.

Cabd and I are going to talk some of this over and then decide what our best course of action is.

It will probably involve sending funds to someone we think is both town and making sense. e.g. someone not Pyrotechnics.

I'm referring to this post. I don't know why it won't post.

pedit: why aren't you trying to sort that out or get us to town read your town pile? I would expect the both of you to be a bit more proactive about that, but you're not. You're like lalalalala you're scumreading our townreads hahahahaha. But you're not trying to find a commonality, and that makes literally no sense from either of you.

In this game, it makes hella sense because there needs to be at least a core of town that is cooperating right out of the gate so that we aren't left ahint the door during the advertising and auction phases.

I have you in my probtown pile mostly on the basis of Nacho's read from yesterday. That is good enough for me for now. i don't proclaim myself obvtown or shit. I just do what I think needs done based on my town wincon. And I trust that my motivations will become clear for people who are able track back from behaviors to win condition.

If Syr ever shows up, I'm pretty sure he won't have any trouble at all sorting at least the ffery half of this hydra.

*twitch* *twitch* *twitch*

You have no paranoia about nacho whatsoever? You have no worries that Nacho might misread me whatsoever? You decided not to try to sort me yourself whatsoever?

Are you serious???

[Pyrotechnics]

Ok.

Sad.

I'm a little discouraged that we'll be able to work effectively together night 1.

Cabd and I are going to talk some of this over and then decide what our best course of action is.

It will probably involve sending funds to someone we think is both town and making sense. e.g. someone not Pyrotechnics.

I'm referring to this post. I don't know why it won't post.

pedit: why aren't you trying to sort that out or get us to town read your town pile? I would expect the both of you to be a bit more proactive about that, but you're not. You're like lalalalala you're scumreading our townreads hahahahaha. But you're not trying to find a commonality, and that makes literally no sense from either of you.

In this game, it makes hella sense because there needs to be at least a core of town that is cooperating right out of the gate so that we aren't left ahint the door during the advertising and auction phases.

I have you in my probtown pile mostly on the basis of Nacho's read from yesterday. That is good enough for me for now. i don't proclaim myself obvtown or shit. I just do what I think needs done based on my town wincon. And I trust that my motivations will become clear for people who are able track back from behaviors to win condition.

If Syr ever shows up, I'm pretty sure he won't have any trouble at all sorting at least the ffery half of this hydra.

*twitch* *twitch* *twitch*

You have no paranoia about nacho whatsoever? You have no worries that Nacho might misread me whatsoever? You decided not to try to sort me yourself whatsoever?

Are you serious???

Tammy, stop fucking talking so I can talk to them. You're supposed to be doing an LB ISO. Git.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm happy with Nacho. I liked his effort to sort me quite a lot.

I feel like I've got my nacho radar back, actually.

Are you going to talk to me now Tammy's gone to all the trouble to get me here or are you just gonna ignore me?

[Pyrotechnics]

I got one question for you, fery.

Ok.

Sad.

I'm a little discouraged that we'll be able to work effectively together night 1.

Cabd and I are going to talk some of this over and then decide what our best course of action is.

It will probably involve sending funds to someone we think is both town and making sense. e.g. someone not Pyrotechnics.

Did you post this, or was Cabd pretending to be you?

[Pyrotechnics]

That was me.

Alright then.

VOTE: morph the cat

[Pyrotechnics]

That was me.

Alright then.

VOTE: morph the cat

Stop being stupid.

Cabd teaching you how to be arrogant, I see.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm terribly sorry that you two drew scum yet again, but you both really should have realized that treating me like some kind of village idiot is about the worst possible way of attempting to fool me.

[Pyrotechnics]

You guys realize that this argument is completely ridiculous, and your differing theories on how you'd organize a town bloc have nothing whatsoever to do with alignment, right? Pity ffereysdstsseyhsiosy and Cabd seem much nicer than Faraday, or else you might have had a hope of escalating the Tammy-morph fight to Tammy-us levels.

If you could stop falsely attributing our reasons for our reads and claiming they're something they're not, that would be really awesome.

[Pyrotechnics]

Nobody cares about you right now. Shoo.

Pedit: except tammy.

[Pyrotechnics]

if you could stop posting that'd be really awesome

I'm sure you'd love me to not rail at your scumbuddy, but that's really just too bad.

[Pyrotechnics]

I have been dancing with joy with nearly every post in this game. I'm not watching every step trying not to screw things up for my partner. morph is on my territory. And however this game works out, this is going to be morph-town meta.

I've seen more joy at funerals.

Tell me, why is it that (or more accurately in what universe do you), as town, make no attempt to work with me and to persuade me to your way of thinking and instead paint both Tammy and I as some sort of fracturing village idiot? Tammy I can at least sort of get, but me? Really? I think not.

[Pyrotechnics]

Aw Syr. I was sure that you had my town game calibrated by now. Maybe next time you'll get it right from the start.

Attempts to make me fly into a rage and make a fool of myself noted.

[Pyrotechnics]

if you could stop posting that'd be really awesome

I'm sure you'd love me to not rail at your scumbuddy, but that's really just too bad.

I get a strong desire to step in front of a bus everytime I read one of your posts.

I'll keep posting then, one less scum to lynch <3

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh moooooooooorph

Where are you

You disappeared

I am mildly le sads

[Pyrotechnics]

WELL THATS COOL POST PREVIEW

[Pyrotechnics]

Have you even posted prior to tonight? I figured you'd show up if and when you're ready to play and in the meanwhile Pyro = Tammy.

98% sure I have. 2% possible game overload.

You know how I sort town. I'm a lot more cold-hearted about that sort process after the Diner game, because being town is not enough.

Oh, don't even bring up Titus. We're nothing like her, and you still have made no attempt to reach out to us this game. We raped the shit out of scum you in Chef, and we're a damn good team, and you know it. I'd have NEVER before this game thought to see you dismiss us as some sort of lolzy dipshit like some other people we've played with I could name. From the beginning, both you and Cabd have treated us like some sort of moronic innocent child. No reach outs (beyond a token Oh hai gaiz why you so dumb). I ask again, why are you treating us like this? Why have you made precisely zero attempt to work with us and change our minds, or even really figure out why we scumread who we do? You have, since you first started talking about us, intimated you think we're town but we're some kind of useless idiots.

Added onto all those other questions, perhaps the most relevant question of all:
If two players you know aren't shit at this game start throwing out complete batshit idiotic reads and fractures your townblock (which, according to you, is exactly what we've been doing),

why the fuck are you townreading us?

[Pyrotechnics]

I didn't really have Titus in mind. I was thinking more about ROFL in fact. Somebody I knew was town, knew I

should

be able to get on the same page with, but quite simply couldn't.

Difference between there and here: we tried to talk to rofl. You haven't done shit to talk to me. Until like, 20 minutes ago. And boy howdy, look at all the shit talking in your ISO about us.

YOU also are talking to two players who are good at townreading and good at forming townblocs and because we think your read on LB is shit that's a huge red flag, yes. And the solution is to vote us. Right? RIGHT?

Considering you've done fuckall to talk us into or out of our read on LB until tonight, yes.

BECAUSE NACHO.

After all the time I've spent listening to you agonize in paranoia over whether or not Nacho is town, you suddenly are such an expert on reading him that you'll override a likely scumread to sheep him? Don't make me laugh. It normally takes you FOREVER to read Nacho. And even then, you second guess the shit out of it. Don't EVEN tell me you're so goddamn sure he's town after less than a Day you'll sheep him over your massive red flags. You'd have scumhunted the shit out of us. Which guess what? You haven't done.

[Pyrotechnics]

And for what it's worth, I just ISO'd ProHawk again and I actually feel better about him than I did before so that's a start.

Empire, why are you ignoring the shitfest going on right now?

[Pyrotechnics]

Tammy, amend the day one part probably, but being on the other end of your.... unique.. method of yelling at me is pretty terrifying and seems to give you results? Chef mafia you guys mislynched me (worth it for the win tho) and I was scared as fuck of you in syr's hard boiled the entire time. I seem to remember getting major heat day one in that game, maybe not?

Also it was me who made that, ffery's been kinda in the back seat most of the evening so far.

Just to amend Syry's last post, this post is your slot's acknowledgment of at least this fragmenting player's ability to actually get correct scum reads. (Although this is a misattribution of us mislynching cabd because we were townreading him by that day, but I digress.) The fact is that even if you guys are completely disregarding the fact that you both hydra with Syry and should be able to talk with him, you have seen me in more than one game work pretty damn strongly for town and have correct reads. So it really makes no sense whatsoever that you go, oh you have dumb reads, and don't try to figure out why our reads are what they are or try to convince us that we're wrong. You've seen us in Chef, town read scum day one and turn around day two and change our minds. Ditto with scum reading town. The experience that both of you have with us, and especially me since you've to this point associated Pyro with Tammy is someone who is working with people and listening to their reads. So, I don't get for one second this:

You know how I sort town. I'm a lot more cold-hearted about that sort process after the Diner game, because being town is not enough.

Makes no sense that when we gave our reads that your response was just. "I. Is. Sad." That isn't even you sorting us or even trying. That's just going ah dumb. And maybe it doesn't make so much sense for Cabd as he has experience with me as scum and town, so maybe he hasn't seen how much I contemplate my reads, but for ffery this makes no sense. Ffery was with me in mafia.raptured and has seen me spend a lot of time contemplating my reads and discussing them, hell she saw me telling Syryana that he was wrong about his scum read on ffery when I was town reading her, so the brush off doesn't feel right and none of the ensuing discussion feels right. Especially when it's couched in "it's not enough that you're town" when both heads of this hydra are willing to discuss and amend our reads based on new information or a different point of view. Both of you know that, and neither of you were actually willing to try to work with us. If you didn't think we were town that would make sense, but your posts suggest otherwise so the dismissive attitude about our ability to work with town makes no sense at all.

[Pyrotechnics]

Right. One question. Then a vote. And you expect sweetness and light?

The time for sweetness and light vanished roundabouts the time you started slandering our character. Which, most curiously, happened way before your reach out. If one could call it such.

I'm still waiting for someone with 2 brain cells to rub together to LOOK AT LAST NIGHT'S AUCTION and show the slightest indication that they see what we see in that, and what it means about the stronger players in this game. Because that one piece of hard evidence is more persuasive than all the walls I will ever write in this game.

Hey, maybe you could be that somebody.

Curious, how this fails to address just about anything I've said thus far. Why should I give a rat's fuck about game mechanics when you're right here, dodging every damn thing I say?

I angsted through day 1 of the cashcabd game, made my decision, and it all fell together from there.

Any angst i have about Nacho I'll work out with my partner. You're spared this time.

So, cashcabd made you a Nacho expert? And all your paranoia vanished, just like that? In fact, show me a time where you EVER stopped scumhunting because someone told you someone else was town.

Actually, scratch that. Nacho never called us town before you made your lovely "oh they're clearly village idiot town" post. In fact, neither you nor Nacho ever had ANY indication of EVER scumreading us. Both you and he have made comments to the effect of "Pyro is dumb" and "holy fuck recalibrate Syr's scumdar". In fact, the only person that mentioned a townread on us from that slot was Empire, who posted it long before Nacho ever even posted in thread. The only thing Nacho posted w.r.t. us is that we had "crazy town ideas" and that we seemed "abnormally pessimistic".

So guess what? Your whole "I'm disregarding my red flags because Nacho's town as fuck and says you're town" is a crock of shit. What's your next excuse?

[Pyrotechnics]

Who in their right mind would step into the middle of it?

I dunno, town trying to stop two townreads fighting with each other seems like a good bet.

[Pyrotechnics]

I have a strong town read of LB and your arguments with Faraday and Mina looked just so wrongheaded that I couldn't wrap my head around where you're coming from. The MS gambiting culture is foreign to me, and I'll probably never speak it fluently. But, even I can usually figure out the probable motivation behind a lot of the gambits I see here.

Why do you think we were gambiting? What was wrongheaded about my arguments? What specifically caused you to not understand?

It's not one player saying whoa. It's web of players disagreeing with you on different reads. There's some non-zero chance that we're all scum messing with your head, I guess. But, I wouldn't assume that's the case. Personally, I'd be trying to figure out if there's something in my town reads that has thrown me off. Because sometimes it happens.

Why do our town reads have anything to do with our scumreads on you? Why do you assume that we assume "you're all" scum? Who is "we all" when you say "we're all scum messing with your head"?

[Pyrotechnics]

Hey, Tammy, remember when I townread Lost Butterfly and you just completely ignored said read and didn't even bother to ask me about why I was reading them as town or anything of the sort despite my repeated insistence of it? Because I sure do and man did that own.

Well considering that you said earlier that you wanted to quote a particular post of Mina's and claim that that post was why she was town, I have a pretty good indication of why you're saying she's town.

How many games have you played with Mina as scum? How many times have you been fooled by Mina as scum? Because if you could count those times and point out why the rant post she made just wouldn't come from her as scum even though I've seen her make posts that sound like that as scum, that would own. Also, considering her other head isn't exactly doing other than trolling, I'm not confident.

Also, I'm not exactly reading you as town, so your reads are being taken with a grain of salt.

[Pyrotechnics]

Because I'm telling you I think it's pretty damn significant?

So, now game mechanics are more important to you than scumhunting? Man, it's like you've completely trashed the last eight months of your own town meta.

Besides which, you know full well how I get once I get a head of steam on a scumread. Why on earth would you even attempt to deflect me with this, or assume I give a rats arse about what you see in auctions when I'm totally convinced you're scum?

That game plus some events here and there in other games has kinda restored my confidence that I can get a decent read unless he's being completely oblique, which he sometimes does. He's not being oblique in this game.

So, you now can magically read Nacho, unless he's being "oblique". Interesting. An ISO chock-full of "I like this"s and "I don't like that's" and other terse and, to use your words, oblique statements, you're so confident that he's town. Hmm. Especially considering all your interactions with his slot up to the point of calling us morons rather assumes he's town. Even more interesting!

I'll have to go back and reread to even see if I can agree that there's some basis for this characterization. I'll let you know when that's done.

I bet Cabd is hating his life so much right now.

[Pyrotechnics]

I have a strong town read of LB and your arguments with Faraday and Mina looked just so wrongheaded that I couldn't wrap my head around where you're coming from. The MS gambiting culture is foreign to me, and I'll probably never speak it fluently. But, even I can usually figure out the probable motivation behind a lot of the gambits I see here.

Why do you think we were gambiting? What was wrongheaded about my arguments? What specifically caused you to not understand?

We didn't think you gambited. I'm talking about Mina's gambit.

You didn't answer my questions

It's not one player saying whoa. It's web of players disagreeing with you on different reads. There's some non-zero chance that we're all scum messing with your head, I guess. But, I wouldn't assume that's the case. Personally, I'd be trying to figure out if there's something in my town reads that has thrown me off. Because sometimes it happens.

Why do our town reads have anything to do with our scumreads on you? Why do you assume that we assume "you're all" scum? Who is "we all" when you say "we're all scum messing with your head"?

You're scumreading LB. I get the impression your read of garuka is null at best, but maybe I'm wrong. And you're scumreading us.[/quote][/quote]
I'll ask again: what do our townreads have to do with scumreading you and LB for entirely separate reasons?

[Pyrotechnics]

It's not one player saying whoa. It's web of players disagreeing with you on different reads. There's some non-zero chance that we're all scum messing with your head, I guess. But, I wouldn't assume that's the case. Personally, I'd be trying to figure out if there's something in my town reads that has thrown me off. Because sometimes it happens.

Why do our town reads have anything to do with our scumreads on you? Why do you assume that we assume "you're all" scum? Who is "we all" when you say "we're all scum messing with your head"?

You're scumreading LB. I get the impression your read of garuka is null at best, but maybe I'm wrong. And you're scumreading us.

I'll ask again: what do our townreads have to do with scumreading you and LB for entirely separate reasons?

Fixin le quotes

[Pyrotechnics]

Last answer tonight.

It's not your townreads. It's your scumreads.

That's quite literally not what you said.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh yeah, and how'd that reread go?

[Pyrotechnics]

Tammy, when you're done pretending to Tammtrum, I want to know why you stopped talking about the Neighborizer.

Well yesterday when I tried to get something organized about the neighborizer, I got trolled and characterized as a fragmenting Vi. You, in the midst of our argument accused me of scumslipping. I've been told that I didn't actually try to get town to work together yesterday even though I actually did.

I give up.

Peregrine has the neighborizer. If you want to know about the neighborizer ask him.

[Pyrotechnics]

please stop

1110 is the only post in the last 4 pages i enjoyed reading

Well since ye actually read the last 4 pages, let's get some opinions.

Town v town?
Town v scum?
Scum v scum?
...
etc.

[Pyrotechnics]

Town v town v town v ?

That's not an opinion!

i think you're town, pyro. i'm not sure about morph.

the argument isn't doing anything to change this. it's just noise. and it's fucking annoying.

Fair enough.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm fairly sure that my townread on them came well before that post, so no that's not really the complete picture and you didn't even bother to ask for why so try again.
I've hydra'd with both of those players as town before so I do consider myself pretty capable of reading them and what they are/aren't capable of as scum (well admittedly way less so with Faraday), thanks.
And really, though, I'm just tired of dealing with this shit from you in seemingly every game onwards so either you'll read me as town eventually or I can just laugh in the post game as I revoke your ability to correctly nail the easiest meta read on the site. In the mean time, I'll go on and try to you know actually win the game and stuff.

Anyway, bedtime for real now.

Could not really care why. Because if you can't figure out a way to talk to me, who you are supposedly town reading, without being antagonistic about it (for instance, doing oh how long will it take for tammy to town read LB, any guesses) you don't get to say shit.

Because really, how hard is it for you to go "Tammy, I don't see Mina going 'x,y,z'?" I know Nacho knows how to do it, so put him on the line maybe? But instead you're like, oh so dumb, and the hydraing bit doesn't make sense because you've hydra'd with me in more games than you've hydra'd with them and both of them are better scum players than I am...not only that you've modded games with a town me in them...and that didn't stop you from being paranoid of me in wingate mansion for nearly no reason at all.

And you can "laugh" at me all you want. You didn't blink that Mina was semi-paranoid of you twice in this game? Guess it's just easier to bitch at me because you expect me to just back down. Here's the dealio, yes, I think a couple of your posts seem like posts you wouldn't make as scum, but your first post seemed prewritten so it doesn't count. And the remainder of your posts to me are bitching about why I might be suspicious of you after I asked you why you weren't annoyed about that. Basically you can bitch at me all you want. You can laugh at me post game all you want. I'll have you solidly town when I believe you haven't done things that I can't see you doing as scum.

[Pyrotechnics]

what are you referring to harakiri?

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm being antagonistic and not to Mina because you're being fucking obnoxious about it in a game where the #1 priority should be cooperation just like how you were fucking obnoxious about it in Wingate (where, hey, I reacted antagonistically and even told you to go fuck yourself!). Instead of trying to actually sit down and talk with me, you just ignored me the first time I said that slot was town and continued to do so. Expecting me to chime in when you're having another one of your shit festivals with a slot I am reading as town when my intervention did nothing last time is just frankly fucking absurd. I'm just sick and tired of it. You're literally the main cause of pages upon pages of complete fucking bullshit that I (and apparently other people too) am getting tired of having to read. So when you actually want to sit the fuck down and talk to me in a manner where you don't come across as a colossal shitlord, then I'll be here. Otherwise, I'm just putting your noise on ignore while I go actually scumhunt.

Okay. Thanks Empire. I guess I was the one calling myself a functional retard. Cool. I guess I was the one trolling myself while trying to make sense of someone else's reads to get a read on them. Cool.

Also, in wingate, fuck you. Like fuck you twice . Like fuck you triple times over. Your entire neighborhood including you were a secret dwelling group of scumfucks who protected yourselves and you were the ONLY innocent person. Did I not scum read one of the members of your neighborhood and you tell me I was wrong? Did Nacho not tell you another person of your neighborhood was scum and you claim he was wrong? Did the scum in your neighborhood not scumclaim in your neighborhood and you not ignore it? You do not get to tell me that you told me a slot was town and bring wingate into it when I was claiming someone was scum while you were arguing with me from early day one and I was right.

Can you just put Nacho on the line, cuz apparently he's the only one who knows how to deal with people and I might actually be able to read him. Thanks. (or you know keep trying to emulate faraday which is not actually commendable.)

Though, I would really really really love flove love for you to tell me who you were in the last game reading as so super strong town that I totally ignored, because if it's Nacho, you get to guess again since I protected him night one. After that have fun placing anything on me.

Now, would you like to talk about this game, or are you going to make up bs about past game and rewrite history some more?

[Pyrotechnics]

Holy fucking shit, is this for real? Like are you even reading my posts anymore?

When in the world did I ever even attempt to discredit your reads in that game? I said that my reacting antagonistically here was very similar to the way you treated me early on in Wingate. In no portion of that post did I even bring up your reads in that game.

reread your damn post. or make it clear when you're switching what you're talking about.

[Pyrotechnics]

You should probably do more imaginary stretches if your imagination is so unfit it can't piece two very similar things together.

There is enough of a difference between "town" and "obvtown" (and if I really want to be semantical, between those two and "solid town") that to say that someone is obvtown

after

the lynch, without

any

form of evidence to show for it, is very suspect. It is similar in some ways to the difference between "town" and "conftown" only without the unlynchable connotations that conftown automatically is associated with.

If you are so perplexed (or w/e) about this, please point to me what shows ProHawk explaining how Hermy is obvtown? Not town, not "don't want to vote" *insert read here*, not newb-town, but OBVtown.

Okay, my problem with this is that it's a stupid attack, not that ProHawk thought Hermy was town. (I clearly thought Hermy was scum.)

What ProHawk is saying today is consistent with what he was saying yesterday. I don't see anything scummy in that.

i don't like that you put that in parentheses. it feels off.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh, don't even bring up Titus. We're nothing like her, and you still have made no attempt to reach out to us this game. We raped the shit out of scum you in Chef, and we're a damn good team, and you know it. I'd have NEVER before this game thought to see you dismiss us as some sort of lolzy dipshit like some other people we've played with I could name. From the beginning, both you and Cabd have treated us like some sort of moronic innocent child. No reach outs (beyond a token Oh hai gaiz why you so dumb). I ask again, why are you treating us like this? Why have you made precisely zero attempt to work with us and change our minds, or even really figure out why we scumread who we do? You have, since you first started talking about us, intimated you think we're town but we're some kind of useless idiots.

This is very much reading like town tammy to me.

that was syry :/

[Pyrotechnics]

You don't think he added anyone last night?

I haven't heard anyone claim it, nor has he said anything, so i'm working from that angle ATM?

That's a weird assumption to make.

Why would scum have bid exactly $100 on Neighborizer? Why would they not go that extra dollar to make sure they get it? If it's to look town, why would he have not added someone last night to continue looking town?

To make this exact argument? weren't you in the last game? If you were, you know that scum made gambits with some of the roles.

Pere hasn't made enough posts to suggest an alignment, but this is a really poor argument, especially considering that Pere has played in both of the iterations of this game.

[Pyrotechnics]

["quote=empire"]
just like how you were fucking obnoxious about it in Wingate (where, hey, I reacted antagonistically and even told you to go fuck yourself!). Instead of trying to actually sit down and talk with me, you just ignored me the first time I said that slot was town and continued to do so. [/quote]

If you weren't talking about my reads in wingate then what were you talking about?

[Pyrotechnics]

You cannot get angry at me that I didn't take your word for it that you were town. you can not also say oh you didn't sit down and talk to me about my town read on myself, which means you were talking me to me about your town read on someone else. Which in that game, I was fucking right about scum.

[Pyrotechnics]

can you puhlease put nacho on the line?!?

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm really interested in morph the cat yelling at anyone else who's claimed to have been obvtown.

[Pyrotechnics]

Stahp.

I meant that I find it interesting that I got yelled at about it (and what's humorous it I was responding to trolling), but it's not been picked up on regarding anyone else.

pedit to LB


-----------
Our reads are: Mhork and Prohawk town. Possibly muffin and bbmolla town.

Null: whatever the fuck empircho is.

Scum: Morph, Nero (probs) maybe LB.

[Pyrotechnics]

the last time I talked to syry he had him as a scum read.

but, I'm not sure. I think he's an easy mislynch if he's town. I've played with him a few times and he's drawn suspicion just like this as town. He got mislynched in black flag even though empire and I were trying to push another lynch. He was only confirmed in the last marketplace game because he was the doctor who was roleblockd and outed that. In kingdom hearts he was killed night one for well no one knows why.

In short, voided has a tendency to look like scum and I need more from him before I can sort him.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm really interested in morph the cat yelling at anyone else who's claimed to have been obvtown.

In the interest of downgrading the snark level, I'm reluctant to reply to this at all. But, since you evidently consider a non-reaction scummy I will say that I generally can tell the difference between trolling and srs business and I see N's comments as the former. I don't consider the comments alignment indicative.

We didn't consider your declaration of obvtownness scummy either. But, as with N, we are skeptical that it's alignment indicative in any direction.

Okay, but part of that isn't our scum read but part of our erm what read.

You made sure to interject that me claiming obvtownness was no good did read odd to me because it made no sense. The first time I said it it was in response to Faraday's trolling and then it was in response to you. Your response to me doesn't make sense as you were not looking at the evolution of the conversation, and if there's anyone who I would expect to look at the evolution of a conversation and how it developed it's you.

(this is a previewed accepted pyro post )

[Pyrotechnics]

Tammy at the time that comment was made (and it was Cabd who initially made it, not me though I agreed with him.) the thread had been moving at a prodigious rate iirc. Evolution is something you look at either after the fact or in the moment if the moment is leisurely.

That period of the game was anything but leisurely.

So, here's the thing. I am completely obnoxious about the fact that I'm obviously town when I'm obviously town. However, I dont' just walk into a thread and go "oh hey I'm obvtown!" I might rejoice at being town but my responses are usually in response to someone else. So, Faraday trolling. Me responding with "I'm obvtown and you know it" because Faraday and I have played together quite a bit - in fact that hydra probably knows how to read me better than anyone as we play together here and at another site; I can sometimes fool mina, but I'm not sure I could fool faraday...he was trolling me and my response was in part to that.

Me being obnoxious about my town game is never going to change. I don't have a good scum game; my town game is what is good - even when my scum reads are not great, the thing I can do best is look town.

No that first night was not leisurely. I was trying like hell to keep up with everyone and partially failing. But my problem with you guys is htat is that once it started being leisurely there was no attempt to work together.

[Pyrotechnics]

That's absolutely right. No attempt to work together while you were and are pursuing players I think are town. Just a lot of headshaking and the occasional "but...but...we think they're town".

Question for you. Cabd raised the concern about Peregrine, sorting him, and figuring out what is going on with his neighborizing. you seem to agree that it's something to be concerned about. So, what is your theory about why we'd call attention to something like that?

I'm going to say this one last time because apparently you didn't get it when syry talked to you and you haven't gotten it yet.

You are for all intents and purposes calling us town? correct? Therefore, if we are scum reading people you are town reading that would be something you would want to figure out with us? Correct? I mean, maybe not me, the only thing I've been is in games with you both (though I maintain have kicked fucking ass) is nothing, but maybe a fragmenting individual, but you both hydra with syry, so why wouldn't you want to talk to us about our reads? I mean we should be the easiest people you could work with. "Hey Pyro, can you explain this read? That read is wrong...we think this" You might have shook your head, but there was no attempt to work out reads with us, and that doesn't make sense to either of us.

As far as the neighborizer, I don't know. I already said I give up. I tried early day one to say that it could be important about the neighborizer and no one agreed with me that it was important. I was trolled day one and figured as a fragmented Vi, by you no less, and even though I tried to figure out who should advertise what have been accused of doing nothing, so I don't think I'm the best person to ask about the neighborizer issue.

I don't know why you're asking us about how we think you'd all attention to it. If you got neighborized, feel free to out it and give us your impression about peregrine. If not, I don't know what you're getting at.

[Pyrotechnics]

As far as the neighborizer, I don't know. I already said I give up. I tried early day one to say that it could be important about the neighborizer and no one agreed with me that it was important. I was trolled day one and figured as a fragmented Vi, by you no less, and even though I tried to figure out who should advertise what have been accused of doing nothing, so I don't think I'm the best person to ask about the neighborizer issue.

I thought the concensus was to leave it to day 2? Hey Tammy it's day 2 now!

What do you expect me to do? I wasn't neighborized. I have no special insight into Peregrine because I have no idea who was neighborized.

Like seriously what do you and Morph expect me to do? I tried to do something day one and was shot down. Why are you yelling at me now? I obviously don't have the role, have no control over the role, so can you explain to me your point to me and what it has to do with the game.

If you have a question about the neighborizer, as Peregrine.

What are your reads N. Besides that you think your other head is town. (and interesting that morph didn't rush in here to tell you it was no good to spout that it was nonsense but I digress.) Do you have anything to say about the game?

[Pyrotechnics]

Holy shit N you're totally scum aren't you.

[Pyrotechnics]

^^^ Please someone else tell me you see this load of bs.

We both believe in our Morph vote, but this? Yeah this is scum too. Either that or N took his brain, locked it in a box, and buried it in the sand way deep in the earth.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade. if you look at the way he interacted with me yesterday, there was no indication whatsoever that he believed in my opinions on the neighborizer. So, why is he he trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together? I mean Morph is doing the perfect fake rendition of looking like they're working together, and N is trying to pull up something from the day before and trying to make a big deal out of it even though the entirety of the game has sided against me on the matter. So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

[Pyrotechnics]

Also, anyone who disagrees with the

FACT

that Quilford is towny town is probably broken.

you and empire could form a support group. I hear there's crack involved.

[Pyrotechnics]

[quote="In post 1211, morph the cat"]

gods i hope you flip scum. It will be so justifying.

[Pyrotechnics]

So, you now can magically read Nacho, unless he's being "oblique". Interesting. An ISO chock-full of "I like this"s and "I don't like that's" and other terse and, to use your words, oblique statements, you're so confident that he's town. Hmm. Especially considering all your interactions with his slot up to the point of calling us morons rather assumes he's town. Even more interesting!

What was your read on me before I made this post?

Before you made this post I'm quoting now, or before Syry made that post? That post had nothing to do with our read on your slot and everything to do with how Syry was trying to make sense of ffery.

We have you as pretty null. There are some things that empire has said that I wouldn't expect from him as scum, but that's about it. I'm also not seeing things I would expect from him as town, so it feels flimsy. So, while I lean town I don't feel great about it. This could be colored by how annoyed I am with empire though.

Speaking of empire. I didn't realize you hadn't stopped talking about Wingate because it didn't make sense for you to be talking about you intervening in anything in this game too. It made sense for you to be referring to your intervention in the last game, because you did tell me I was wrong about scum reads I was right about in that game. I realize now that what you're referring to as an intervention was this:

So how much longer do you guys think it will take for Tammy to realize that Lost Butterfly is town? Any guesses?

Which isn't in any little teeny tiny way an intervention or you trying to talk to me about my reads. I get it trolling Tammy is fun, and maybe because you do it so bloody often it just comes natural to you. But, when my buttons are already being pushed and people are being antagonistic to me in the first place, antagonizing me further is NOT intervening or trying to work with me neither ftr is saying things like "holy shit syry needs to recalibrate his scumdar". So, quite frankly I put you on ignore after that and didn't even consider that's what you were referring to in the post when you were blasting me for being obnoxious in wingate (and obnoxious isn't something unique to me just so you know.)

[Pyrotechnics]

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

You're not scumhunting.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade. if you look at the way he interacted with me yesterday, there was no indication whatsoever that he believed in my opinions on the neighborizer. So, why is he he trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together? I mean Morph is doing the perfect fake rendition of looking like they're working together, and N is trying to pull up something from the day before and trying to make a big deal out of it even though the entirety of the game has sided against me on the matter. So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

Tammy, you've been taking small digs at everyone including me all game. I'm glad I got you to finally take a stance, but it just really doesn't feel genuine. Where was I "trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together"? That's not even something you actually care about, seeing as you're calling morph scum now.

Everyone's scum but you, Tammy.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to do with the Neighborizer thing. You had no end goal. It was just something for you to do to look busy yesterday and now that didn't work out for you you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

Holy hyperbole and incorrect information batman.

Like I want to respond to this but it's so far outside the scope of what is actually happening in the game, I'm just going to accept that you are just making up bs to further try to bait me and call it a day.

Also if you and your obvtown other head are so sure I'm scum, you're missing something a little important to back up that read there buddy.

[Pyrotechnics]

Hehehe... You're funny, Nero. Do you always flip out or just as scum?

I'm not flipping out just calling you on your shit.

Why aren't you yelling at people Nero?

[Pyrotechnics]

Garuda still bugs me for the circumstances surrounding their terrible vote on Klick.

-- Quil

What is your read on klick now?

[Pyrotechnics]

Voided - I can't quote cuz on iPad right now and cutting down that long post would be painful, but yes that post you thought was total towntammy was a post from syry.

[Pyrotechnics]

gods i hope you flip scum. It will be so justifying.

I am not even a tiny bit sorry that we'll disappoint.

Though I guess the feeling is mutual in a way. It would be nice to think that at the end of this all, I'll look back and think "well of course, they were scum." But, I don't think so. I think you're town, and yet the disconnect is so vast and pervasive that we're not likely to overcome it.

That's on you. If you are town and are actually trying to get town to work together, read syry's points about you. You should then easily see where our concerns about you come from. If there is an actual disconnect, feel free to try to overcome it. Even if you think you can't work with me, you both hydra with syry, so that really shouldn't be difficult.

[Pyrotechnics]

Upside down - weren't you arguing yesterday that the neighborizer had to be town yesterday because of the $100 bid? Do you still think so? Because if you think that PV is definitely town due to bid amount, then why bring up the issue of the neighborizer again? My whole purpose for wanting to know who the neighborizer was was so that we could evaluate their choices and through that hope to evaluate him. But you thought definitely town so why would it matter to you?

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh you mean all the posts you spent whining about cooperation in the town while at the same time getting into a shit fight with LB over nonsense? You don't get to play the "hey I've been really trying to get the town to work together card" when you did literally nothing of the sort while I actually tried to offer something in the short amount of time we had.

So where Empire and I ended up before N1 came up was that Lost Butterfly was incredibly town and the majority of your thrust against them was initially weird. Vote post in #51 had you attacking them for responding to you about freezer instead of responding to eagle (they were responding to eagle, his quote just didn't have a name on it) and them mixing up you with Empire. The next clash was strategy, don't really think that scum-Mina would downplay the effectiveness as neighborizer as scum unless they were their actual thoughts; theory is the easiest thing for scum to talk about because they don't have to lie about it. The next attack was on Mina's "banal" comment, which I didn't think was fair. Empire and I shared that line of thought because we didn't think that the post Mhork was commenting on was that significant. We didn't assume they were talking about the post a couple posts up because usually when people are like "I agree with ^this post" and then a different post ninjas them, they explain what post they are talking about.

#625 from Mina seemed genuine to me in the sense that you accused her of feeling off and she sort of acknowledged that, threw up her hands and went "yes I could maybe fake this as scum but there's currently not a lot more I can do as town". I don't think that Mina/Faraday are more likely to antagonize you as scum and as town, and I think that Faraday letting you and Mina fight and only coming in every once in a while to antagonize you is more of a towntell than anything else; I'd expect him to be taking more of a lead if they were scum, and even IF Faraday let Mina take the lead as far as interactions with you go, I don't think that he'd make her job that much harder by doing nothing but trolling you.

We had a talk before Empire's initial reaction to you that was essentially "what is Tammy doing, I have no idea why she's railing against LB right now because they're town as fuck". He reached out a few times in typical trollEmpire fashion to get you to talk about your LB read because we were reading them as strong town at that point. He was pissed because your response to him having a townread on LB was "I'm not reading you as town yet and I know Mina better". References to past games are references to past games and I don't think we'll get anywhere with the Wingate references (because honestly the only person who was perfection that game was Llamarble), but that's pretty much the gist of it.

As said before, not why I was scum reading Mina. She felt off and I was trying to figure out why. How was I supposed to know that she really was addressing baldeagle in that quote when the name wasn't there and the rest of the post was addressed to you in name but actually to me. I was mostly just confused by the whole post.

As far as the empire being pissed, well I was really annoyed at the trolling attitude that he took with me. I can usually laugh off trolling, but when I'm already in bad mood or annoyed all it does is piss me off.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm going to save myself and syr from watching yet another slap fight and respond to this instead by saying that this is on neither you nor her, that this entire bitch slap fight is stupid, and that it's best for both of you to just stop blowing up.

Ffery is talking to me all sorts of depressed about this, and I'm sure syr's getting an earful about all this too. From my POV, the whole "are you guys faking each other's posts" thing came out of total left field. Syr's questioning alongs those lines was kind of a silly loaded thing, damned either way; so I really didn't get the point of it. I don't fake ffery posts, and I don't think ffery can quite fake my flavor of batshit insane yet, either. Would you like me to go back and tell you who made which posts?

I haven't talked to syry since he was arguing with you guys the other night as he was pretty annoyed and wasn't online. I really don't care who is making what posts; if I care about a particular post, I'll ask. What I think Syry was worried about was that if you guys are scum again, and knowing that she tends to let you do most of the posting when you guys are scum - or at least that's what I'm gathering - that it would bring suspicion on you guys if she wasn't posting; therefore you might fake ffery posts to make it look like she's posting more than she actually is and make you guys look town. Also, I think that he expected ffery to interact with him a bit differently than she did. That's my guess. I'll ask him about it later and correct this if I'm wrong though.

[Pyrotechnics]

Upside down - weren't you arguing yesterday that the neighborizer had to be town yesterday because of the $100 bid? Do you still think so? Because if you think that PV is definitely town due to bid amount, then why bring up the issue of the neighborizer again? My whole purpose for wanting to know who the neighborizer was was so that we could evaluate their choices and through that hope to evaluate him. But you thought definitely town so why would it matter to you?

I was and I do. I'm not bringing up the issue of neighborizer; I'm bringing up the issue of your insistence it be claimed and then nothing after it actually was.

Yeah, here's the thing. When I get slammed for an idea, I'm not going to bulldoze it.

Day one was four real life days long. I agreed with Empire that the person who got neighborized could out it day two. Peregrine admitted he had the neighborizer not long at all before the day ended.

As far as why I didn't do anything about it that night. You do realize that it was less than 24 hours after the day started and when Peregrine hadn't yet posted when you guys started jumping on me about not doing anything about the neighborizer right?

Beyond that, I was just a little bit more interested in trying to sort out my reads than I was with worrying about the neighborizer when nobody agreed with me the day before anyway. And even beyond that, I started out this game pretty excited about it and wanted to put together a plan for town. I ended up pretty quickly getting annoyed with just about everyone that I was really looking forward to playing with. I get that part of that is my fault, but my caring levels about that particular thing is pretty damn low right now.

I do find it odd that Peregrine didn't out who he neighborized after seeing that people were bringing it up.

And can you start reading my posts? I said more than once yesterday that the reason why I thought neighborizer should claim was so that we could evaluate them and their neighbor choices (in fact, I said it in the very first post I made). Considering that you were arguing with me about it, you shouldn't be *forgetting* that that was my whole point. Like this is really really really clear.

[Pyrotechnics]

That's part of the crux of his argument against you guys, and I thought he got that part across pretty clear that night? He says that it doesn't make sense for that to come from ffery. He said that from that post and the ones afterwards, you guys are treating us like we're town, but then not actually trying to figure out why our reads are what they are. It's just not what he would expect from ffery!town.

Why wouldn't ffery understand that type of thing though? In hard boiled, I made a post and ffery asked me who made the post. When I told her I did and asked why, she said she'd be scum reading us if Mala had made the post. (Or it was GiF, I suppose) The idea being I guess that you expect certain things from one person that you wouldn't expect from another.

I'm not going to start this argument again though as I think if you read Syry's posts from that night, you'll see what problem he had with it and what he expected from ffery if town.

[Pyrotechnics]

That's part of the crux of his argument against you guys, and I thought he got that part across pretty clear that night? He says that it doesn't make sense for that to come from ffery. He said that from that post and the ones afterwards, you guys are treating us like we're town, but then not actually trying to figure out why our reads are what they are. It's just not what he would expect from ffery!town.

Why wouldn't ffery understand that type of thing though? In hard boiled, I made a post and ffery asked me who made the post. When I told her I did and asked why, she said she'd be scum reading us if Mala had made the post. (Or it was GiF, I suppose) The idea being I guess that you expect certain things from one person that you wouldn't expect from another.

I'm not going to start this argument again though as I think if you read Syry's posts from that night, you'll see what problem he had with it and what he expected from ffery if town.

As part of your personal conversation with me, I'd like Tammy's scumreads as they stand right now.

Still think morph is scum. Changed my mind on Nero and n being scum though. Nero started yelling at people, which I like for his alignment. Last time I saw him as scum he was much more apologetic to me about being disengaged and kept promising me a yelling post he never made. I originally didn't like the whiny tone, but he started looking better. The only pause I have is that this is multiball, and I'll have to check back. I think I remember him being scum in dn does Star Wars and he was capable of doing his yelling thing there. And n had a few posts I think are less likely to come from scum. The klick replace out when wagoned is something I've seen him do as town in mylo before, so it was null, but the replace back in looked town. Still suspicious of lost butterfly (they've had a couple posts I liked but overall meh). Baldeagle feels off on tone. He's doing all the right protown things, but either he's severely grown as a player in the past month or he's scum. I'm a little worried about seanald, but it could just be because its seanald.

[Pyrotechnics]

I'm not even going to pretend I can get caught up here tonight. So, tomorrow.

[Pyrotechnics]

Sorry I still need to catch up, but I'm doing fifty things ATM and might not get to tonight, but I have more time starting tomorrow.

I talked to syry for a few minutes. Our top five town reads are:

Voidedmafia
Lord mhork
Muffin
Peregrine
Pro hawk (syry would like to see more from him to be confident)

We're undecided about the sixth, and I have to finish writing this lecture, so just getting something down for now.

[Pyrotechnics]

Hehehe... You're funny, Nero. Do you always flip out or just as scum?

I'm not flipping out just calling you on your shit.

Why aren't you yelling at people Nero?

You are clearly not reading. Why are you not reading?

You getting into an inane argument with lord mhork is not what I consider the Nero Cain yelling at people as you burn through the thread and Scumhunt. This is a bit of a start, but it wasn't there before.

[Pyrotechnics]

There's a table about night one - we advertised abductor.

[Pyrotechnics]

As far as accountability for the night transactions. We could designate the top scum reads and have them transfer to top town reads.

Last game we had a table where we indicated which suspect would transfer what amount of money to which town read; however, that is part of what magua fixed. But if it's still random chance it could work.

WRONG HYDRA

[Pyrotechnics]

BUT ISN'T MY KITTEN ADORABLE???

[Pyrotechnics]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

[Pyrotechnics]

Hey, Tammy, what's your read on us? It feels like your interactions with us today have been really toned down compared to yesterday (and yet you've implied you still think we're scum). baldeagle, too. Do you still have a scumread on us?

Still leaning scum. I guess my interaction is toned down because I sobered up? >_> Or maybe I'm just in evaluation mode as arguing accomplished absolutely nothing.

I don't get what the purpose of this question is though.

[Pyrotechnics]

[

1166: Tammy tells me she doesn't like me putting stuff in brackets

I didn't like the extra stuff in brackets because it felt tacked on and self-conscious. Like you needed to let us know that you really thought that Hermy was scum for some reason.

[Pyrotechnics]

You're voting him.

Okay, so why are you suggesting that you and Nero are on the same team?

You're voting him because he's scum. If your not, why are you voting him?

You're calling me scum (stating my "team" could have gotten both NK and neighborizer), but not voting me.

Your conjecturing, but if you conjecture we are both scum, then you either think we are on the same team or opposing teams.

If you have enough information to reach the conclusion that we are both scum, then you should also have reached a conclusion that we are on the same or opposing teams.

So either you don't believe what you are saying, or your making shit up. Which is it?

this is a bad argument. town conjecture about things all the time. i'm surprised this is getting blown to the proportion that it is.

[Pyrotechnics]

I think that sort of heartfelt read-documentation and selling may work better when the player is personally not on entirely solid ground. It turns the effort into something more selfless and altruistic and for-the-sake-of-town, when it could otherwise look like (and be) an effort at consolidating power.

I have to admit that a small part of this is to impress Empire and prove that I'm a better hydra partner than Tammtrum

Am I that bad a hydra partner?

Still leaning scum. I guess my interaction is toned down because I sobered up? >_> Or maybe I'm just in evaluation mode as arguing accomplished absolutely nothing.

What do you think of them having paranoia of you and then putting you in their top 6 townreads? Also what did you think of my post on them?

I saw you posted it but didn't read it. I read your town read of us though (because I'm self-absorbed) and it was a thing of beauty!

[Pyrotechnics]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

I guess this is a similar question that keeps rearing it's head to us.

It appears that you are at least to some extent going along with the attempted gamebreaking plan of your biggest scumread. If so, why?

Regardless of your alignment, your plan is a protown plan. You could be doing it because you're town or you could be doing it because you're scum trying to stay in the town's top town reads and therefore reap the benefits. We wouldn't transfer money to you at this point, but the plan itself is sound and running along the last game's game plan.

You also have no idea how much time Syry and I have spent trying to figure out your alignment and make sure we're not just confirmbiasing at this point. Right now, we're just kind of in observation mode and waiting to see what the next day brings and how it impacts our reads.

[Pyrotechnics]

I saw you posted it but didn't read it.

Dude I'm on page 65. I'll get to it eventually.

Also, you insulted my skills as a hydra partner.

[Pyrotechnics]

<3

I read your totally awesome wall on meeeeeeeeee though, which is let's face it way more important!

Also, I'll read it tonight; I'm just not there yet.

And again.

[Pyrotechnics]

Actually, Voided why did you choose to advertise and then go for the extra voter? Last game you went after doctor the first night.

[Pyrotechnics]

The strongest reason for Peregrine being town is probably snagging Neighborizer Night 0 for $100, and the way that situation that came about. Regardless of what scumteam he was with, if Peregrine put down a $100 bid on something that would be that effective for scum and just sort of got it, I think scum would keep that on the down low and not let him claim it. But just in case it was just a bid that looked town enough where the scumteam decided he should probably claim it, the really good parts are the followup based on him attacking people based on the scumminess of their advertisements. And when he conflicts with Muffin about this specific scenario, he immediately and smoothly turns to attacking the fuck out of Muffin based on that logic, which seemed extremely town to me. Peregrine is generally a pretty lurky guy in general, and as scum he exploits that and stays under the radar, so I can't imagine Peregrine-scum coasting on a good amount of towncred buckling down to attack Muffin, of all people.

Very likely town.

I do think that his push on muffin looks town for pere, but do you really think this about the neighborizer now? Everyone has assumed he's town partially because he claimed neighborizer, and he's admitted to neighborizing someone but no one has pushed him for who. So, do you really think the claiming neighborizer was something risky for scum to do because it would have been written off as town no matter what.

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Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the robotic Facebook "I LIKE THIS" type posts that seem to going into excruciatingly unnecessary detail at times but I am curious!

You're still not scumhunting.

Unless by robotic you mean Nacho is robotic scum!!! Which he loves to hear so you should repeat that loudly!!

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The main thing I'm taking away from this is that morph, Banakai, upside down, and to a lesser extent ProHawk (since Gravedigger isn't as unambiguously protown as some of the other abilities) come out looking really good. Given that the advertisement totals are hidden, I don't see scum dropping money on advertising protown abilities on N0. The only way it pays off is if you happen to be the one player in the game who advertises that ability. And morph going the extra mile of advertising abilities that were in danger of being eliminated last night is a major towntell.

Thoughts?

Why not? Scum could have easily advertised things knowing that this would be part of the discussion and they would be coming out looking protown for it. I'm surprised you're just writing it off as a major town tell for experienced scum to do things that would look protown.

For instance, I didn't advertise anything because I wanted all the money I could to bid on something I wanted to have the best chance to keep out of scum's hands. However, if I were scum with a pool of money, I would be more concerned with doing things that looked protown like bidding on items that would make me look more town in the process.

[Pyrotechnics]

I mean, I see your point, but to write off someone's alignment because they advertised something I think is short sighted.

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Also, my kitten is curled up in the sink of my wet bar. It's like amazingly cute.

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You're voting him because he's scum. If your not, why are you voting him?

You're calling me scum (stating my "team" could have gotten both NK and neighborizer), but not voting me.

Your conjecturing, but if you conjecture we are both scum, then you either think we are on the same team or opposing teams.

If you have enough information to reach the conclusion that we are both scum, then you should also have reached a conclusion that we are on the same or opposing teams.

So either you don't believe what you are saying, or your making shit up. Which is it?

I'm going to say this one more time, and then either you're going to not believe me and keep your vote. Or you're going to believe me, shut up about this, and then either unvote me or find some other damn reason to vote me. This goes for morph, too.

I. Made. Conjecture. That's. It. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't call you scum. Even if I did, I sure as hell don't know if you and Nero are same or opposite scum because I just don't know and I don't like to do teams without scumflips. I DID, however, post a theory t hat

involved

positing that you were scum, but did not

call

you scum. Reread that post morph quoted. Note that the entire thing is based on the assumption that you're scum, and then that you and your team won neighborizer and night kill, and THEN wasted that nk for neighbor usage. In retrospect that's not even good conjecture as even seanald wouldn't use it that stupidly if he was scum and was given usage of the nk. Not one person in this game would do that

Now, I think Nero is scum. I'm voting him. I don't know if you're scum, and only have some stupid bit of conjecture that really only works as town's biggest N1 wet dream to think that you're scum. So I'm not voting you. Are we fucking clear, or do I need to yell at you to get that through your thick skull?

Although damn this sounds town.

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Harakiri - Why aren't you trying to interact with Syry?

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The one thing that is making me doubt my lost butterfly scum read is faraday's absence from the game. He prefers playing scum, so him not doing anything but trolling makes me wonder because I would think he'd make time for it. This isn't really all that strong because he could be legitimately busy and Mina can actually scum hunt, so.

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zMuff is probably scum.

Why?

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peregrine, why did you bid on Neighbourizer?

why are you only asking Pere? He's not the only admitted person to bid on neighborizer.

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Tammy's response to Nacho's Lost Butterfly read:

I'm not doing quote stripes but for reference here

I *can* see Mina starting the game with gambit to try to trap scum. I can *also* see them coming up with that as scum too.

What bothers me is that Zdenek asked them twice what types of questions they asked Magua before the game started. Even if she thought it was a stupid question or whatever, it should be relatively easy question to answer, but as far as i remember she didn't.

Questioning people's town reads on you being a town tell is fine for inexperienced players, but not for competent ones.

As far as some of your other reads, eh could go either way, I think you're not giving Mina enough credit for actually being a good scum player when she really wants to be, and I actually do think it's weird that there's a "oh we're paranoid of pyro but they should be in the town block". As far as I can tell the paranoia comes from me not having the same tone from the first day in respect to my read on them, but I think that it was pretty clear that we were trying to work out our read on Morph this day phase, and really didn't like the stop in to kind of mock that situation with the "if they weren't so nice they'd be able to reach Tammy-us levels" (not to mention I was barely posting at that point but whatever.) It felt more designed to incite as did the "paranoia" post. I do like her advertising research but it's not accompanied by really any scum hunting, which I know she's capable of as scum. Basically here a lot like Morph we're just going to sit back and observe and if we're all still alive tomorrow then we'll take it from there.

[Pyrotechnics]

BUT ISN'T MY KITTEN ADORABLE???

Yes he is!

He says

meow

thanks!

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I think sitting in the middle of the thread complaining about how stupid everything is was less likely to be coming from a scum Natirasha. Scum usually thrive during times where the gamestate is completely fucked (aka when everyone's fighting) and I know Natirasha is particularly more in tune with the tempo of the thread than most people so it makes a lot of sense that it bothered him so strongly.

You literally got after me in Wingate for getting frustrated at Mara and Generic and their day one fight. Why now do you think scum just thrive during these times?

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Heh. I suspect Cabd and I have chewed up a similar number of bytes discussing you guys. Well, Syr mostly, because even after our disconnect in Rapture (which was mostly driven by my tentative play, something that is not an issue in this game), I feel like he's been involved in many of the game events that have shaped my current approach to townbloc-building because most of those events happened in Rift games. This game's outcome will probably shape my approach even further, for good or ill.

Observation mode is pretty much where we are at, and that should be pretty obvious to Syr. We want to let you set the pace of interactions.

For now, we'll leave it up to you to define if, how and how much you want our cooperation. And we'll figure out if, how and how much we're willing to accommodate what you come up with.

Couple things. Is cabd not paranoid of me at all? I mean I think my scum game absolutely sucks, but he said in Chef Mafia that he couldn't exactly read me because of him town reading me in Red Wedding when I was scum.

Syr had me re-read mafia.raptured the other night and wants me to read Death's Diner? which I'll do this weekend. But as far as mafia.raptured, you did react a differently to Syry's case on you. I guess for me, I'm going to take that game more seriously because it's a game I played in and one I had a town read on you, no matter how poor or tentative a game you thought you played. I'm a very poor meta-diver

and only do it when empire forces me to

so game experience means more to me. And I'm now rambling; it's late I need sleep. The main point is we're probably spending way too much time trying to figure you guys out. So if you are town, it would be really awesome if you could town tell in a way that Syry would recognize.

[Pyrotechnics]

Who are you talking to?

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Syr had me re-read mafia.raptured the other night and wants me to read Death's Diner? which I'll do this weekend. But as far as mafia.raptured, you did react a differently to Syry's case on you. I guess for me, I'm going to take that game more seriously because it's a game I played in and one I had a town read on you, no matter how poor or tentative a game you thought you played. I'm a very poor meta-diver

and only do it when empire forces me to

so game experience means more to me. And I'm now rambling; it's late I need sleep. The main point is we're probably spending way too much time trying to figure you guys out. So if you are town, it would be really awesome if you could town tell in a way that Syry would recognize.

I reacted differently to Syr's case in Raptured because I knew my play was bad. My play in this game has not been bad. In my opinion my play has been solidly town. I can see why Syr reacted to that one post the way he did, but as far as I know, he wasn't in-the-moment in this game from the start. It really, REALLY worried me that you were scumreading some of my town reads. Day 2, either you've done a better job of getting your reasons across or I've done a better job of receiving the info, or a combination of both, because I can at least see where you are coming from, and in some cases the strength of my own town reads has decreased a little this game day.

I will admit to having a tendency to be all over the place day one, especially in larges that move very fast. I tend to get lost and can't keep up (which is a similar problem I have in chat mafia) and I just go with a feeling I get. My playstyle is too deliberate sometimes no matter my scattershot style of posting. I almost never feel settled until a flip or two, and when I can reread through things and let the game digest. I'm also completely inconsistent of a player. Sometimes I have great early game reads and then fall apart in waffleville, and then some games my early reads are terrible and day 3 or 4 things start coming together. Regardless, I'm better at getting my thoughts across after the initial flurry.

I can't remember if syry was in the moment with that or not. He follows along in the game way more than he posts, but that shouldn't be surprising. I know that we talked about it before day ended because he got after me for letting faradays trolling rile me up.

[Pyrotechnics]

Voided - yes, that was me, Tammy posting last night, and my kitten! (Not quoting all that and pulling it apart on my iPad.)

[Pyrotechnics]

H/o may have found Tammy scum.

Changed my mind on Nero and n being scum though. Nero started yelling at people, which I like for his alignment. Last time I saw him as scum he was much more apologetic to me about being disengaged and kept promising me a yelling post he never made. I originally didn't like the whiny tone, but he started looking better. The only pause I have is that this is multiball, and I'll have to check back. I think I remember him being scum in dn does Star Wars and he was capable of doing his yelling thing there. And n had a few posts I think are less likely to come from scum.

Hehehe... You're funny, Nero. Do you always flip out or just as scum?

I'm not flipping out just calling you on your shit.

Why aren't you yelling at people Nero?

You are clearly not reading. Why are you not reading?

You getting into an inane argument with lord mhork ]is not what I consider the Nero Cain yelling at people as you burn through the thread and Scumhunt.

This is a bit of a start, but it wasn't there before.

AH HA HA HA

HO HO HO HO

HE HE HE HE

YEAH...NO.

Even disregarding the fact that I'm allowed to change my mind on my read on you. If you will actually pay attention, you'll see that when I mentioned my change of read on you I said you had started yelling at people. Me asking why you weren't yelling at people, and you asking me why I wasn't reading was quite a bit before that. I was answering a question you asked me while I was getting caught up with the thread. And I was answering based on my reasoning when I first addressed you. And if you will note the bolded, I said you had made a start but it was not present prior to that *when I originally asked you the question*

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I need to talk to syry about where to place our vote. I'm fine with a dr p lynch, but last time we talked syry wanted our vote on Nero. I still need to read through the game I referenced to see if I'm remembering it correctly.

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Ohh, a wagon on me led by my scum read. Predictable.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with lynching this.

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i mean, off the top of my head, i remember calling ns useless in that game and him asking me not to talk about his skill level, and i made mala stop playing the game altogether, plus whatever else i may have said along the way, so like... yeah. if it helps, i'm in asshole rehab. it's a very slow process, though.

I'm in bitch rehab!

[Pyrotechnics]

Ohh, a wagon on me led by my scum read. Predictable.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with lynching this.

Then, vote DP?

Maybe >_>

[Pyrotechnics]

Molla is either being scum or stupid from his posts. While I'm not fuzzy about LB yet, tehy're right with the muitiquote. Also, no one gives a shit about muitiball day one. Except if you're scum.

What exactly would make me stupid or scum in particular

Because I can probably attribute it off to being stupid but I need to know what you're referring to

So, you're actually caught up?

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oh the one thing that made me think "huh muffin's town maybe after all" was he was like "actually my scum game is there if you know what to look for", now I don't neccessarily think this is more true for him than anyone else (there are always differences) but I'm not sure if he's going to come out and denigrate his scum play as town. (esp. since I think in the anxiety game as scum he commented on the strength of him scum game? maybe I made that up whatever, still likd it)

I don't follow this and my computer screen is not dirty!

Are you meaning as town he wouldn't say, my scum game is easy to read if you know what to look for, meaning that you are suspicious of muffin or the opposite? Because you say in the first line that he's "town afterall" but then the discussion about his statement makes it sound like you think he's scum?

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Zdenek being king of the prod dodges and asking silly questions is concerning. Bitches, be damned!

[Pyrotechnics]

because moast players care about being lynched as scum, whereas for some reason people don't as town?

This is totally true of me >_>

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Tammy, your vote is still on Morph. Put it somewhere more useful -- I know you said you were "okay" with the DP lynch? What do you think of his reaction to the wagon?

And it's going to stay on morph until I decide what to do with it. Syry wants it on Nero most, but is all right with the Dr. Pep wagon. I think his reaction sucked. I've seen Dr. Pep mislynched before and his reaction to his wagon was way more oomphy.

[Pyrotechnics]

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the robotic Facebook "I LIKE THIS" type posts that seem to going into excruciatingly unnecessary detail at times but I am curious!

You're still not scumhunting.

You should have quoted your earlier post re: this. It gets more style points than repetition. And yes, that's true, but it can hardly be helped. I can't force myself to scumhunt successfully, so if I'm not in the right frame of mind I'm just not going to do it or work behind the scenes until I feel slightly cock/egotistical again. And well dealwithitdog.jpg

I was probably on my phone or ipad. i don't really look for stylepoints (thought that should be obvious >_>)

Also, if you're going to pull emofarabunny on me, you can't go "how come you didn't question us when we weren't doing anything.jpg" just sayin.