Mewbie 1442 the second -- Game over

[Buckwild]

/Present

[Buckwild]

VOTE: immuno

[Buckwild]

oops. VOTE: unvote

[Buckwild]

VOTE: GIF
Did that really need a 3rd vote?

[Buckwild]

I don't see a post from you telling anyone to vote him. I was gonna ask the question to you, but the 3rd vote felt more scummy.
GIF, do you think GM's vote was real?

[Buckwild]

GIF, do you think GM's vote was real?

Do you think that mattered when I voted her?

Yes. So did you?

[Buckwild]

Answering JMO, it depends on whether you though GM's vote was real. But I am asking that question to GIF right now.

[Buckwild]

Nice vote on me. But do u really think GM is scum or were you sheeping for an easy train? Now trying to get the heat off you by throwing it back on me?

[Buckwild]

Neither.
Just wagonin' for wagon's sake.

Scum will be scum. At least you are admitting to it.

[Buckwild]

Seriously though, GIF is definite scum. This guy is just acting like his scum moves are whatever when its just a cover up. Please vote GIF.

[Buckwild]

Why would town join a wagon for the sake of a wagon? It could easily lead to a mislynch. Scum oftens jumps on an easy wagon in hopes that it will push through.

[Buckwild]

shit, i dont think we should even vote. sounds like a good plan?

If you are going to vote, at least have a reason? If you think sheeping is a good reason, maybe we should just all sheep one person and go from there. It is anti-town to sheep and I don't buy the reaction BS.

[Buckwild]

Honestly his behaviour here isn't even in the top 50 scummiest things he's done in just the games I've been in with him (and quite a few of those from his Town games).

Don't have time for meta reading. So basically he has free reign to be scum because that's what he does? Am I over-reacting because no else seems to think GIF is scum?

[Buckwild]

I've been really busy in the last week. Still here. I will post something either Thursday or Friday. I'm sorry for not contributing.

[Buckwild]

Throwing in 4 ISOs I've done, I'll take a look at the rest tomorrow.

Crisp: Strong town. post 46 appears town like, I definitely agree with his beliefs on lurkers. Yes irony, I know.
Post 113 is great. In general Crisp is playing like pro-town, similar to what he was doing last game.

GM: Starts off attacking me for my post then jumps to crisp, both null moves. He gets an early townread on both GIF and DC. Both of them were voting me at the time, yet GM does not vote me?
He votes JMO next. Post 154 has a town feel. Leaning town, and definitely should not get lynched today as he is one of the more useful players creating discussion. My worry is a possible scum GM-GIF team as both seem like town leaders right now.

JMO: Sheeps nacho initially and then tunnels GM for 2/3 of the day. Has a short scuffle with me over voting, then continue to make short quips here and there. Null.

Nacho: Jumps from GIF, to GM to Dr.robot. all part of his scum hunting that I've seen before. He becomes quiet for a bit but then bursts out again with good posts. 148 is a great analysis and I agree with most of it except for his GIF read. Definitely town.

[Buckwild]

I should have posted earlier before the next wall of text came. I haven't read through nacho's new stuff yet, will do tomorrow.
3 more reads:

IamDrRobot/Brian: post 32 seems like is is worried about us knowing he was scum last game? Then he goes V/LA. Lurker scum? Brian comes in and posts something that should be useful, post 175, but I don't like the way he posted it. I can't be bothered clicking every link to figure out who he is talking about. Post 180 is getting better.post 209 is a straight prod dodge. off that he says there has been too much content since his last post with just 34 posts since. Both him and crisp apparently feel strongly against JMO. Also, there are plenty of pairs out there that are not interacting with each other. Why focus on JMO and me? Leaning scum for sure.

DC/AA: Her first few points are about the last game. Then goes on to hating on my line of questioning to GIF. I actually like DC's questions against me that are causing me to get a town vibe from them. What was D/C's role last game? I am confused on whether claiming VT was a lie or not and whether it matters even. Appears to protect GIF quite a but then disappears. A/A drops in and says she will post Monday. I'm gonna have to go with null until I see more.

Rach: a lot of nothing initially from being sick. First posts after don't add much. Continues to talk about lurkers being null, which a definitely disagree with. This is mostly a feel as I don't have much content to point at right now: leaning scum.

I need more time to look at GIF again. It seems everyone was fine with him so I have to reread our exchange again.

[Buckwild]

From the way JMO is defending himself, he is feeling pretty town to me. His style of speaking like, unvote me right now and feeling bad that others don't see him as town really strike a cord with me. I would be ok with a rachel vote as I already had a weird feeling about her.

[Buckwild]

Well I will be away for 36 hours so no vote from me.

[Buckwild]

Crisp wants to see what GIF says and frankly, so do I...

[Buckwild]

Will post soon, just came off a 24 hours shift.

[Buckwild]

Alright,

Crisp: Not going into anymore given that he is town. If he were mafia he would not have to post so much to win this. Usually I'm uneasy about people buddying up with me but in this case I don't care since Crisp is def town.

GM: I want to hear more from GM on why he has such high suspicions of me. Either way, he feels even more town than ever since his last few posts. Crisp, I think you are wasting your time on GM.

DC/AA: This ones ez. Still null, but this all changes depending on AA's next post.

Even if I assume AA is a lurking scum, there is still one more scum between these three:

JMO: Still being useless in my eyes. Not giving any reads or analyses of anyone, just yelling at people when he gets voted by them. He appears much more scummy today than yesterday.

GIF/YUI: SO GIF's first attack is on me which was in response to me questioning him. He doesn't do anything useful all game and just outright avoids questions directed toward him. He lurks a bit then ends with the rachel vote which itself is null. Yui comes in with a great post that I agree with for the most part. I don't see how AA is the scummiest person on the list. Finally though, I do not like her not having anyone she would vote for after 13 pages of info. IMO scum often find it hard to point to someone to call scum since they know everyone else cept their partner is town.

Brian/Dr. Robot: Since his first couple posts, he has been lurking as well. I disagree with Yui as I do not think Brian's posts were that useful, especially the first one. Brian, you were pretty strong on coming after JMO earlier on. Now that Crisp is moving away from JMO, what do you think of JMO?

Ultimately my vote would be on 1. YUI 2. JMO or 3. Brian right now.

[Buckwild]

Why aren't you voting someone then?

ok. If you want one.
VOTE: JMO

[Buckwild]

Why aren't you voting your top scum read?

Just cause someone else is my top scum read doesn't mean I can't vote you.

[Buckwild]

Because I'm phone posting and I can't rally post comprehensive posts on my phone.

His reads were meh. I really don't see how he can call me even more useless than yesterday. Anyways. I'm feeling nacho was killed because he was defending me so much. Without him is be an easy lynch right?

You must have been posting from your phone since the beginning cause almost all of your posts are one liners that comment on other people's "comprehensive" posts. You are useless cause you aren't giving any thing novel and useful.

[Buckwild]

WTF? The pressure fell of him at one point cause everyone was telling me he was just being GIF. I pushed, he was an ass and it went nowhere. Also, I actually posted reads which at least give us something to work with unlike your single line quips.

[Buckwild]

Crisp you are o so wrong. JM might be mafia but you are so wrong about me.
I get feelings from the way people post. Its the language they use in their posts and their convictions. Nacho's posts were the strong posts he usually does minus the being an asshole. I had a good feeling he was town and I was right. You think I'm scum cause I can read people?

[Buckwild]

Quick thoughts before bed:
There is no way that mafia could talk themselves out of a quickhammer the next day unless JMO looked so scummy there was no reason to wait, which he has not. I don't know what kind of experience Yui has had, so I can't say he is making stuff up to cover his butt.
GIF was not saying JMO was definitely town, but that the reasons for the wagon were poor.

[Buckwild]

Read up to post 374 so far:
Really Gm, not going to vote brian this game? What has he done to give you such a great town read. There is no way he should be in anyone's definite town pile unless they know something we don't. So why is Brian so town to you?
I didn't think GM's answer was fishy as he can definitely hold back for some time but eventually needs to answer for it. This Brian thing is a red flag though.
Nacho didn't seem that great this game, but I've had one other game where he was certainly one of the better players.

I don't understand the Second half of Crisp's post 373.

[Buckwild]

Trying to reply to this wall of text is impossible so:

"1. No, it was not a lie. I would have no need to tell my partner I was going to bus them, as the first thing I post in Mafia QTs is "don't be surprised if I bus you."
2. Not having daytalk doesn't really matter, especially in a game this size. There are plenty of subtle ways to telegraph one's intentions anyway."

Just b/c u tell your partner you will bus them does not mean you could not make use of a signal for a change in game plan.

"So "your reasoning about jmo is WIFOM and bad, we will discuss it postgame" is what, exactly?
And what I am stating we will discuss postgame, again, is theory questions (why is WIFOM bad, why do I find VCA/NKA bad, etc.)."

Again, I don't understand this part of Crisp's argument.

"If you think I have a problem lying as Mafia then maybe you need to go meta me a bit better."

Crisp, can you link a game where you see GM acting in this way?

"The why could be any one of ten reasonable reasons and countless more unreasonable ones. Unless you are Scum, you cannot know which. To propose that important opinions should be based on conjecture is frankly ridiculous."

The why is just of not more important than the fact as it promotes discussion. Only mafia would rather have ppl ignore the kill. Also, it one can get reads off of reactions to a kill.

"Um, no.
It's not something I can talk about, because ongoing games and not-mine-to-tells, but basically I was glad he was distracted by the other thing, but also sad he was away from this one.
That's the conflict of interest. It's my interest in this game vs the other thing."

I think he's saying he is in another game with Brian and it is giving him info? Did I just break a rule?

"Do you think these actions tell on his alignment? On mine? Show your work."

I believe it gives more info on Brian's alignment than GM's. If Brian and GM are in another game, I need to read it.

"Why would I claim jmo was never a suspect?
What makes you think he's presently my biggest suspect?
Where was I appealing to him in my posts?"

Questions for Crisp.

"Giving a Town read =/= questioning somebody's alignment.
Also, this point appears to have little to do with me, excepting the underlined.
As to that:
Which would be scummy at the beginning of D2: me voting my strongest scumread, me voting a weaker scumread, me voting a townread, or me not voting at all?
And which would be the towniest?"

Voting scummiest initially is towniest, voting townread would be scum. I sometimes like to vote the lesser scum reads to try to throw them deeper into one pile or the other from their reactions.

"Please demonstrate where I began to question your alignment. Also please include quotes, if you can find them.
Also, which of these is scummy: questioning someone's alignment, or acting as though one knows?
And which would be the towniest?

Please actually respond to what I'm saying instead of what you seem to think I'm saying. I find your misrepping disingenuous."

Neither is scummy if you have good evidence to support.

These walls are annoying. Also, where the hell is everyone else. This is BS. I won't be able to post for another 2 days.

[Buckwild]

prod dodging. Will post Friday for sure.

[Buckwild]

At this point I'm starting to meta this and think AA is mafia and her lurking is being recognised as a strategy so that's why she hasn't been mod killed yet. I might also pull a JM here and say if AA is town and you can do that I want her blacklisted in my games.

Two things...

There is connection with alignments with Modkilling. And Why do you think that my slot was supposed to be Mod killed? Explain?
Sometimes Lurkying also means Busy.. And you're trying to apply policy lynch here.. You understand that you're in a newbie game?

And what the hell about Blacklist? what's your problem.

this is not a town attitude.

VOTE: Crisp

AA, explain to me what is wrong with policy lynching in a newbie game? You're supposed to play to your win condition. Honestly, you lurking for almost two weeks without doing anything useful to the town? I don't like that.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

why youre indicating that i am playing against my win condition? explain that first
lurking is not always scum. have you played any mafia games before? lnfact lurkers are easy scum targets.

So after all this time, you come out with this crap? You are voting crisp because he is calling you out on not being useful? You are either an emotional player or scum not sure where to place her vote. We need to get things moving. Arc, post something useful on reads. Crisp's vote on you seems like a frustrated town. VOTE: AA.

Someone mentioned that players here are bleh. TBH this is a newbie game. You should join a real game if you want loads of content to read. I play these games because its less likely I'm gonoing to fall behind on reads. Also, I am not finding these walls of texts useful. Crisp, how would VT false claiming PR be useful. If I was the power role I would claim bullshit and get him lynched asap. It would be the equivalent to me of actually finding out that someone is mafia during the night.

I am still getting mixed feelings from Brian. I'm going to post another reread of everyone sometime this weekend. Right now, AA is on the top of my scum list.

[Buckwild]

I'm on vacation, this week and only have access to an iPad with occ internet connectivity. I did not know aa was being placed at l1 with my vote, I had done a count and thought I was putting her at l 2. Regardless I would have still voted her since all game she had been lurking and then just placed a weak vote on crisp without a good reason. It just seems very weak for her to pull that and something I could definitely see scum doing once their back are to the ropes as she is.

[Buckwild]

WTF? more certain of crisp than me? Crisp is the towniest motherfucker here. And now he's gone. <vote>goodmorning</vote>. This guy is grasping for straws.

[Buckwild]

VOTE: goodmorning

[Buckwild]

Bullshit on AA's vote on me right from the beginning. It proves in no way she is town. If she is mafia, her partner's vote only puts me at L-1, which still needs to draw a town vote. Easily a ploy to get a mislynch early on. This whole game she has been after me with little to no reason. Her only mention of a reason is my prior vote on her which she claims is because it was weak. This was BS too since I voted her because she voted crisp on the basis that he wrote an unuseful lengthy post?

I would vote her now, but Mindgamer is right that massclaim is the way to go. I'm am bulletproof. Mindgamer, your analysis is pretty accurate except that you also had results from your viewpoint. If someone claims VT, then you or the VT are lying. You are the towniest person I see right now, especially after that breakdown, but the mass claim in no ways proves you town 100%. Also, I sort of wish you hadn't said anything until after the mass claim. It makes it too ez for noob scum to analyze the situation...

Finally, I was on 24 hour call again yesterday. I will post until 8PM tonight, but then am on another 24 hours call at work.

[Buckwild]

He's lying. Has to be. This is an interesting move, but don't buy it JM. Not sure why he would lie though. VOTE: AA

[Buckwild]

actually not sure. I thought that you had cleared Mind earlier. Did you not?

[Buckwild]

VOTE: Mindgamer