NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[likeabauss]

Hello all.

VOTE: sangres

You know why.

[likeabauss]

I say we lynch TIP today, who wants to hamma?

>isn't voting TIP

Also, lynching TIP is pretty antitown when the hydras will know whether he's scum within five more pages.

Sadly I'm actually townreading this post though.

~Jekyll

does that matter? I want TIP dead regardless

dead.

Hanging town is not how town wins at this game. Go back to "Mafia for dummies" or GTFO scum.

VOTE: yessiree

[likeabauss]

I hate all the dishing out of town reads. "Ur town. Town there. There. And there too!"

Keep that crap to yourself. Your town reads on D1 don't help other townies lynch scum today. All it does is setup scenarios and leverage plays for scum to start working on and lining up. If you want to help scum, keep it up. When you want to start helping town, start pointing out shady buggers and applying heat.

TIP is unique. Apparently his meta is so obviously transparent, that he gets sorted quickly and with ease (from those that know him.) At least two of those players are here, in separate hydra slots. Ill bet good money that they'll declare him town or scum before days end, and they'll be right. Not only would I prefer NOT to hang somebody that is so easily sorted (before them being sorted obviously), I'm highly suspicious of anybody who wants to hang that fellow. Its scummy as hell.

[likeabauss]

I don't like MVP. Weird vibes.

AngryFratBoys is scum.

I hate cats.

Spoiler: FTFY

[likeabauss]

Here's what I hate about this game so far... There's about a half dozen players doing this meta/history/relivingtheglorydaysofanotherepicgame/casual but deliberate buddying/bs. It's obfuscating real conversation and sorting. I get it, we're all friends here. And I understand we all have our own methods of scumhunting... But this has gotten far away from productive in my opinion. Sure, there's a number of players barely posting, but this non-productive banter is enabling that behavior. It's easy to hide or lurk when the cool kids club is attracting all the attention. So, fellow cool kids, let's focus the conversation a bit better.

Angryfratbros deserves rope. Dude replaced into a slot that bailed out very early in the game. Townies don't tend to bail that early. They see what shakes out, read, and dive back in as time allows. Scum however has a team counting on them, working a strategy, and there's more pressure on a scum slot to be involved/present.

Dudes entry to the game was straight inside joke buddying. "Hey so and so. Don't mislynch my like last game. Tee-hee. Herp Derp." Not cool. Then a bunch more bs spam, useless fluff. Somewhere in the middle of it, another head jumped in and added to the wtfery.

I saw some town cheer leading "Scummers, get in here and post." which loosely translates to "I'm a posting machine, so obviously not scum. The scum just aren't posting."

Plus, there was the whole "Gym fist, then knowledge." Everybody knows you can't skip tanning and laundry and go straight to schooling bitches. GTL, then lynching scum. Get your mind right first. Only gready grimy scum would suggest skipping the laundromat.

There's more, but I'm mobile only for a bit and it's tough to quote and do real work.

[likeabauss]

likeabauss

, I know you can read Rank like a book. What is he?

Rank

, I know you can read likeabauss like a book. What is he?

Too soon to be certain, but Rank is most likely town.

[likeabauss]

1) Do you have any empirical evidence backing that claim, because it looks like a load of bullshit.

2) Sorry not sorry that we're excited to play with a bunch of players that we like.

3) You missed the part where I said that I'm townreading all the active players other than RC (active being players with more posts than the mod at that time).

1) 50% of the time, it works every time. If you make calls in mafia strictly on empirical evidence, hot tears of shame should stream forth from thy face.

2) There's a difference between being excited to play with people you like and stroking them/your history to position yourself. Examples:
A) Hey guys, wicked pumped to be here. Hi5! Let's wreck some scum. (This says, let's play mafia and have fun)
B) Hey guys, happy to be here! Don't screw up like last time and misread me. (This is preempetive positioning. You're cautioning them to be slow and deliberate with their reads on you, and broadcasting to the player base that those players haven't read you well in the past.)
Your "excitement" reeks of example B and its a highly suspect maneuver in my opinion. Its nuance, but there it is.

3) I don't see the relevance of your point 3 as a defense or rebuttal to anything I said. I might need a better explanation, or just more coffee.

[likeabauss]

What do you think he'll say about you?

He'll probably avoid talking about my amazing charm and striking good looks. He might toss in a mom joke, play a little ditty on his banjo, and then proclaim my towniness for all to see.

But I don't like sharing strong town reads on D1 that other folks can leverage. Example, if the people that read you 100% say on D1 that you are town, scum needs to slay you. Otherwise, you're as good as conftown. There's a similar dynamic with Rank and I, as we typically read each other well.

[likeabauss]

VOTE: angryfratbros

Forgot this before.

[likeabauss]

Where's Nacho? What do you make of my point #2 in post 552?

[likeabauss]

Sakura and TIP, I'm going to ask for some latitude on those questions at this juncture. Rank replacing out is an interesting development, and I need to reread quickly, and get responses to my current pending questions. After that, we lynch FratBros and go into N1 like bosses.

[likeabauss]

Where's Nacho? What do you make of my point #2 in post 552?

For clarity, I just want Nacho to respond to this.

[likeabauss]

Mobile for bit. I can't wait to get to a computer. In the interim, can those of you who are picking up what I'm putting down start piling votes onto the FratBoys? That's a scum slot right there and votes on it are good.

[likeabauss]

greetings, strange peoples.

Greetings scum.

[likeabauss]

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

[likeabauss]

Not fully caught up yet. Mara, TIP, Jekyll, Guyett, sheep me please. Hang FratBros. Game breaking analysis to come tomorrow.

[likeabauss]

Mara, I know Rank like you know TIP. FratBros today. Ranks replacement tomorrow. Roll with me. Do me a solid.

People, look at the quick momentum shift they pulled. As soon as I started digging into FratBoys and Ranks replacement, they bum rushed the Guyett wagon to L2 on nothing substantial at all. You saw it, you knew it was bad, this is why. Why rush a lynch on D1 when we are finally getting some content developed? Because they are not town aligned. Pro town play wants to uncover info.

Did anybody notice FratBoys jump in to defend Ranks replacement when I started in on it? Why not let me flame and dig? Why defend a barely contributing slot that is just getting into the mix from another slot that hasn't done much? Oh, scum buddies. That's why. Discredit the Bauss, try to save a teammate. Prevent discussion. Redirect attention. Oh look, shiny Guyett! Hes ready to rollover, PUSH.

That was the most scummy opportunistic and ballsy redirect I've ever seen. Nice try. Fail. Die.

[likeabauss]

Pistol Pete Maravich? I hope.

FWIW, this read is a bit bullshit and I feel bad for it, but I can't ignore it. That said, here's the deal with the Rank read:

As a player, Rank doesn't like being scum. But he loves being town. His scum game isn't that good, and it's less exciting for him. But, the best part of the game for Rank as town? D1. He loves it. I love it. We thrive on it. D1 reads and lynching is what separates the men from the boys in our opinions/world. We have probably hundreds of hours bullshitting and talking about D1 reads, psychology, sociology, profiles, maneuvers, etc etc. It's LITERALLY the highlight of the game for us as players. And the source of much bragging or shit talking in post game chats.

So, Rank's early play seemed townish to me. There wasn't much to go on, but it seemed typical. He stays light until stuff develops (much like I do), dropping the occasional potshot or poking the bear when he sees a chance. But him replacing out? 100% scum move. As town, he'd have lingered, read, contributed when he could and stuck around through D1 at least. Bought some time. As scum? He wouldn't want to gimp his team, he'd bail quickly and early to give them the best chance at victory. Which he did here. Town play doesn't require as much activity as scum play to be successful. You read, you think, you post, and come and go as you can. Example: Rank just recently detail read a 100 page D1 of a game in under a 24 hour period and started slinging reads and opinions instantly. Why? How? It was D1. SuperBowl Sunday. Bases loaded, 2 outs, full count, down by 3 in the bottom of the 9th.

Rank's slot is scum. But, I picked up on the FratBoys scum slot before Rank's, hence why my vote is on him and why I want to lynch FratBoys first then Rank's slot second. Some details on my FratBoys read coming up...

[likeabauss]

POST

I find this post very interesting. It's a major deviation from what I expect from your slot.

Riddle me this Batman... why would you actively/instantly discredit a observation like the one I've made? Why not give Orcinus a chance to respond? Or perhaps somebody else that may have played a game where Rank and I played together and saw the dynamic. Why not ask some questions or dig a bit instead of funny checklist? Seems strange. Elaborate please.

I'm guessing that was not the Mara head? Please advise.

[likeabauss]

On FratBros:
I'm semi reluctant to go in depth and share all my reads lately, because people on this board have been reluctant to acknowledge the usefulness or validity of them. I play pretty differently it seems than most here, and it's a lot of work to make these elaborate cases, clearly explain them, and get people to follow me.

I'm also fighting a losing battle because it's becoming more and more clear to me that the scum in this game are the cool kids, and I'm not going to be able to lynch any of them if they just stick together and refuse to bus or break ranks.

A lot of what I do is based on profiling, and psychobabble bullshit. It's often nuance, but it's found in almost all human communication and it's fun/exciting for me. So, I keep my eyes open for it, and when I see clues I begin to apply pressure without revealing everything I saw. And then I look for patterns that ping. There's a couple with FratBros.

1) Do you have any empirical evidence backing that claim, because it looks like a load of bullshit.

2) Sorry not sorry that we're excited to play with a bunch of players that we like.

3) You missed the part where I said that I'm townreading all the active players other than RC (active being players with more posts than the mod at that time).

This hydra head here made some mistakes, unknowingly. I call this the burden of guilt. I've touched on this in other games, and I'll hit it again here. AngryFratBros knows he's scum, and is trying to hide it/mask it/refute it. The nuance of this comes across a couple times.

See line 1. He's challenging the basis of the argument, the means if you will, not the end. His phrasing and word choice is not saying "I'm town, you're retarded" it's saying, "Your argument is retarded/baseless, therefore I'm town." This is a window into what's going on inside his brain. Proof or GTFO is a common response from scum when called out. As if anybody ever really PROVES that somebody is scum on D1, without night info, or hard line evidence. But the psychology that manifest from a perspective of town or scum in this situation it is dramatically different. That word choice was confirmation for me that he is scum. After the clues I picked up on previously that made me suspect him. I've pegged other players on this site with methods like this before.

(In bussing Mara once, I used a similar tell to create my own original case against her. I took the town cred and went on to victory, where she called me a sweet mutha fucker and said she loved me. Now, no love. Why? Likely because Mara is scum too. But I digress, more later...) P-edit: Sakura onto it too.

But lets look at item 3) in the quote above. It's in response to:

I saw some town cheer leading "Scummers, get in here and post." which loosely translates to "I'm a posting machine, so obviously not scum. The scum just aren't posting."

He was hell bent on DEFENDING the accusation. So he defended the piece of it that he could, the "town cheerleading" as I called it (which, let's face it... was pretty bullshit and easy to refute.) But he didn't even see what I was really getting at and affirmed it on his own shortly after. I asked more to clarify and dig. Quick recap:

He showed up and started posting a storm. Shortly after, this gem:

There's a lot of people here who need to so something.

Especially the scum. Other than RC, none of the posters more prolific than the mod have pinged.

This is another window inside his brain. He's openly insinuating/stating that the scum aren't posting, as he's only got 1 scumread from the active player base. But this is two fold bad:
1) It's easier to setup a lynch on the less active, less vocal players. Derp Derp. Scum.
2) He's directly and indirectly demonstrating/validating/supporting a behavior that he's using to mask his scummy taint. He's not afraid to post a lot, be vocal. He's behaving that way. And he's also stating that the scum in this game are NOT posting a lot and being vocal. It's a complimentary maneuver. (this is the psychobabble)

After I asked a followup question to develop what I was onto a bit, he responded:

3) You called my comments to the lurkers "town cheerleading," when I made it plenty clear that I was townreading the vast majority of the active players. There are very few players (read: one) that I feel comfortable reading after only a few posts. That you're trying to spin that as "town cheerleading" is bad and you should feel bad.

Again, he's defending that cheerleading... not what I was really looking at. The behavior of posting a lot, saying scum aren't posting, and setting up an easy mislynch (town that isn't posting much.)

Easier to analyze behaviors:

Let's face it.... we have a pretty open vouch that something is up with RadiantCowbells. Along with enough of a breadcrumb that we can wait and see what shakes out. Why push that?

I laid out the momentum swing onto Guyett in a previous post. Scummy. As. Fuck. Why did he do that?

He actively defended Orcinus from me. I'm sure Orcinus is scum, and FratBros is scum. He knee jerked and defended him when I got on him. WHY WOULD YOU DEFEND SOMEBODY THAT JUST REPLACED INTO A GAME FROM ANOTHER PLAYER THAT'S HEATING HIM UP? It's anti-town behavior. Let me flame and fry and develop content. Don't stop me and defend somebody. Townies don't know alignment, so are reluctant to actively defend somebody else in the absence of a good solid read. He literally stepped right up and laid into defending his scum teammate from the big bad Bauss. Fail.

I have more, but time is short for me and I don't think FratBoys will hang today given my mapping of who's who. If you're town, you should just sheep me and we'll lynch two scum back to back.

Scum list:
FratBoys - high certainty
Orcinus (Rank) - high certainty
Mara - medium certainty

[likeabauss]

I've stalked you and rank playing together, I've read your TV hydrae games.

This is you subtly suggesting that you understand and know me. And it positions you as informed about my play and style. What is the real purpose of this statement? I know that you have read me.

This statement was made entirely to convince other players that they should trust your opinion on me. You slid it in at the end of a completely unrelated point (your checklist usage.) You're actively setting up to discredit me rather than explore my lines of thinking. This is highly anti-town and likely scum.

I can't see another scenario. Especially from you.

[likeabauss]

Townies, please no full reads lists. We are up against a very smart and aggressive scum team. They will leverage your reads list against you. Chase your scum suspects, keep your town reads close for a game day or two.

[likeabauss]

I made a reads list in a private QT. So I get all the benefit of organizing my thoughts, but I don't get to share them all either! Sadface.

Share your scum reads and reasoning if you like.

[likeabauss]

MC Mara... Do you trust your partners read on TIP? And on what basis? With any limits? Do you ask her to justify or explain it each time or is her track record substantial enough that you take it with little more than a question?

You knowing me and Rank, and our history, should give you reason to strongly consider what I'm saying. Instead, you are dismissing it. Facts: Rank and I have a long tradition of playing mafia together. We each have deep knowledge of the other.

My opinion/experience on and with Rank is better developed than any other player here. Why cast it aside so easily?

While I briefly described a piece of why I know Ranks slot to be scum, there is far more to it than I even took the time to explain. Surely, somebody like yourself with a deep understanding of mafia, wants to explore it. No?

[likeabauss]

So townies, here's what is likely to happen... A momentum push of some kind again. I'm digging into some sore spots I think, and there's going to be a flurry of posting activity to push right past the stuff I'm posting. You can watch it fly by, or you can pile some votes onto FrayBoys and increase the heat. The scum team is worried now because if I can convince enough people to hang one of FratBoys or Orcinus, I get doc protected overnight and tomorrow lynch another mafia (the other one.) That puts them in a really really bad place.

That's why we are seeing Mara come out and discredit me (not the logic of an argument.) If I get some cred, its trouble. Mara knows I'm a strong player. We've got a couple games together of the same alignment (both town and scum) and we won them together. That's missing this game because Mara is scum and instead of valuing the input of a strong player she likes, she's position against it.

I'll be a bit lighter on activity for the next couple days, mobile only, so forgive the typos and any shit formatting. But I'll try to keep the heat on and contribute what I can.

[likeabauss]

Do I fucking look like mara to you?

Is Mara not a head in that Hydra? Cabd and Mara? Correct me if I'm wrong. My apologies if I am.

You reframed the logic instead of answering my questions. If I'm the most knowledgeable guy in the room about Rank, why was your first reaction to discredit? If you were town, why wouldn't you push on Orcinus instead of discredit my argument? Do you have such a strong town read on that slot that you instantly thought "No way, Bauss is scum and/or retarded." I mean, its D1 and us townies need to find scum. All you did in this instance is discredit a potentially valuable read (or piece of info about player/slot) instead of exploring it.

[likeabauss]

Since we are informing the player base of your knowledge/opinion of me:
"Well that was certainly fun to watch. Bauss played a damn good game from an outsider's POV" - Cabd from Newbie 1386

I played scum with Mara in that game. With Rank, TIP, and Nacho as town. You can't act like you don't have a recognition or appreciation for my skill as a player. And from that perspective or understanding of you, your reactions/behavior don't jive (the stuff I'm questioning you on that you won't answer.) That means you're not town. You're scum too. I just don't get why you and FratBoyz thought it wise to try and defend Orcinus from me (directly and indirectly.) Is he a special scum role holder? Role blocker maybe? Is there potential for a godfather in this setup?

Updated reads:
FratBoys scum (he didn't even laugh at my GTL joke, he tried to defend against it. Only angry scum doesn't laugh at Jersey Shore jokes.)
Orcinus scum
MC Maraca scum

[likeabauss]

Here they come, fresh from a scum conference in their QT! Lol. Predictable.

The worst part of this is I know its near impossible to rally the votes needed to lynch either of them.

FratBros, you ignored or didn't respond to several other things I pointed out about your shitty transparent scum game. Momentum push onto Guyett? Setting up to lynch less active players? You're still not getting the psychobabble stuff, which I'm used to. You're scum. Let's do this... I can't lynch you today. You've got like 1 vote and its me. Your overactive defense can take a rest. You're safe. Focus your energy someplace else so I can sort the rest of the player base from your actions. Thanks.

Mara, you cut me deep! I asked for your vote on FratBoys awhile back. You never gave it. That was clue 1 that you're bad. We've cleaned house together previously, and when you asked me for my vote or some time in other games, I gave it. (Because I know you're a baller.) You know I'm good, and you know I know Rank, and still no love. No support. You're scum.

Orcinus, sorry man. Like I said, its a bs read and I feel bad for it. But you replaced into a scum slot.

[likeabauss]

Mara, just because I don't mention his RL stuff doesn't mean I'm not aware of it. Dude read the 100 page D1 game on his honeymoon and we lynched scum D1.

P-edit: So, where's the vote I asked for? You're here now. Back me up. Rally some other people too (I think there are some people here that will back you if you ask.) Help me lynch scum. Or at the very least help me scum hunt.

He's like a million votes from hanging and you won't even heat him up with a vote. What. The. Literal. fuck. You are scum.

I'm not asking for a hammer for Gods sake. I'm asking townies to pile some votes on a guy who is L-7 or L-8 which might as well be L-1 million.

[likeabauss]

Not sure what to make of this "likeabauss vs. Rank-slot" thing.

I guess I can ask: likeabauss, are you so sure on your meta-replace-read that you would be willing to go 1-for-1? I'm not saying it's a good idea or anything, I'm asking if you're that confident.

I will be V/LA the majority of Friday and Saturday.

1 for 1 is, if I'm wrong I get the noose next day? 100% on Rank/Orcinus, yes. And I'd even go FratBoys because my pyschobabble-fu there is strong, yes.

And I'm on FratBoys instead of Orcinus because I pegged him first, and I feel bad about the Rank read because its BS (like I said a few times.) I like to catch people making slips or dig into them and expose them... not lynch a replacement on something he didn't do. Orcinus was kind enough to sub in, he hasn't done anything really obvious, and its only because I know Rank that I pegged that slot. So he gets an extra day according to the "Bauss's guide to mafia etiquette."

I'm selectively responding to questions and prods from my three scummers, but everybody else I'm trying to answer directly. If I miss it, ask me again or point.

[likeabauss]

Also, my history with Rank goes outside of and beyond mafia on this board. So just doing a meta dive here doesn't yield an awful lot in the grand scheme of things. I don't get that people here will generally accept Mara or Nachos read on TIP without question, but I throw down on Rank and its a great big production.

Srsly. Somebody that isn't scum explain to me. Earlier in this very game Cabd or Mara had a rage moment about the TIP read/relationship, right? I think with Yessiree? I mean WTF.

Tell you what, if I'm wrong about Rank, I'll change my name to LikeAPuss. Swear to god. And I'll continue to play here on that name.

If I'm wrong about FratBoyz, I'm open to other name suggestions. FratBoyz choice obviously.

Yeah hey so this stuff is frowned upon and all that.
Consider this a warning.

[likeabauss]

Tell you what, if I'm wrong about Rank, I'll change my name to LikeAPuss. Swear to god. And I'll continue to play here on that name.

If I'm wrong about FratBoyz, I'm open to other name suggestions. FratBoyz choice obviously.

If you're town, please don't do things like these, it feels cheap and you're bringing outside influences into the game.

I think orc has already made some scummy reactions so you dont need to rely on your Rank mafia history, what do you think?

Noted and my apologies on that. I retract those statements.

[likeabauss]

Pedit: no. in the bauss quote i gave he says that replacing out day 1 in a scumtell.

But that's for one of his reason for scumreading

AFB

, not Rank. There's a difference.

LTB clearly said that Rank's rep out d1 is scummy because Town-Rank loves d1 and he wouldn't rep out D1 if he was town.
As reaching as it sounds, his logic is based on his meta on him, regardless of his willingness to prove it or not. However, what MCM did there was that he butchered down his logic to make it sounds like his logic is based on some stupid overgeneralized theory.

Just want to touch on this briefly. I don't use Meta as "proof" like lots of players here do. Meta, at its very core, can be willfully manipulated by an experienced player that is cognizant of his/her play or meta. There is no "proof" in meta when up against a skillful player... only clues and hints. But yes, you're right. My scum read on Rank is essentially meta based.

Also, I'm not going to publish a thesis on how to read Rank for everyone to see/read/and put to work against him in future games. Its a courtesy that we extend to each other... we'll make cases for and against based on whatever we see but generally only to the extent necessary to get the desired result (which can at times be epic battles of whargarbl.) In this scenario, I'm highly confident in my read, I've laid out why, and that should be sufficient to get the slot lynched, vig'd, investigated, RB'd, etc.

[likeabauss]

On AFB:

I don't always lay out all my cards. Those that have played with me know this. I very often poke at a player on a seemingly irrelevant item, or ask "softball questions", develop stupid lines of conversation. These things are cornerstones of how I formulate my reads. I like to do progressive lines of questioning sometimes, building and adding as I go. (I did this last night with Cabd, look at how I engaged him and then asked a bunch of questions that he couldn't adequately answer. It started off relatively light, but developed.)

You'll notice one of my first posts after AngryFratBros entered the game simply stated "FratBros is scum." That was a hunch. So, I added a bit to it. And from there a bit more. Now, I believe I have enough info that I can layout more simply and clearly. He's made adjustments and reactions to my accusations and pressure, and because I didn't tip my whole hand I think I was able to get additional info out of him for the case against him.

I'll make a simple and concise post a bit later with why we should hang FratBros.

[likeabauss]

His accusation of APBro.

Exactly one thing in this entire post is something serious that applies specifically to APBro and not the rest of the town.

His entire read on APBro was based on him replacing into the game

So

:/

Big misrep. In that post I even state, THERE'S MORE.

[likeabauss]

A more thorough/concise case against FratBoys:

1) Al Capone Ego (psychobabble) This is tied to the "Proof or GTFO." Al Capone ego goes something like this "You can't PROVE I killed those people, even though everybody knows I did." I hinted at pieces of this in earlier posts, and he's done it a coupe times. He's refuting an argument strictly because I can't prove it... like proving anything on D1 in mafia is possible. This is scum behavior.

2) Guilty Conscience (psychobabble) Talked about it previously.

3) Momentum shift onto easy Guyett wagon (Guyett seems pretty clearly ambivalent/frustrated town to me) Anti-town behavior to run up on D1 so fast and hard, and setup a lynch with so little contributions from other players.

4) Setting up for future easy lynch targets - talked about this previously

5) Defending scum buddy Orcinus (this is leveraged, and I know most will skip over it, fine. But Orcinus is also scum and FratBoys actively defended the slot before even attempting to sort said slot.) I asked a similar line to Cabd. Why does a townie defend another player that they haven't strongly sorted from another player? Especially if the accusing player is a townread.

6) Steering conversation - things like shutting down an interrogation into another suspect, trying to get people to focus back on what he states/says is important, etc. Theres several examples of this. It's anti-town behavior, and most often scum.

7) Wanting to lynch RC despite what I perceive as an in thread subtle vouch (Post 269) I stuck this in there because it supports a few of the above items. Orcinus is also conveniently on this maneuver.

8) Overly defensive - example: he defended against an OBVIOUS joke I made about Jersey Shore and GTL. Not even a chuckle, or laugh, and he didn't just glaze over it. He addressed it directly like it had merit. There's a few other examples. He's still trying to refute me, despite having a SINGLE vote on him and not being in any trouble. This is tied to #2 and #1 lightly, but is scummy behavior in its own right. To clarify a bit, this is a departure from expected behaviors. Look at his post 343. He cuts up RC for doing exactly what he does later with my joke. Pretty lol IMO. Again in 607 about taking jokes seriously.

9) Overt buddying - right from the start. Examples are obvious.

10) Useless fluff posting - I made a few comments about people reliving the glory days of games gone by. FratBros did a bunch of this. With Cabd, with sangres, with ffery, with JS, Guyett, etc etc. It's half buddying, half filling the thread with useless posts. By itself, it could be null... but look at his response to it in 571, line 2. He can't refute it, so he just downplays it. "Bah, I only did that with Nacho."

11) Rephrasing my arguments - (This is a bit of a stretch. It could be that he either doesn't understand or he's scum and just positioning.) He's done this a couple times. He's tried to frame my psychobabble arguments as logic problems. If you're a student of language, words have meaning and sentences have a rhythm. Two different musicians can play the same notes, and they'll sound completely different. I'm essentially saying that his word choices, responses, etc are singing a different song to my ears. It's not logic, its nuance, don't re-frame it. I have a trained ear, and I hear it clearly.

12) Mis-reps - 358, 540, 624, 629, 728

13) His scum reads are people I completely disagree on (this is perspective driven, YMMV)

14) He's leaving himself back doors on his town reads. He's a very aggressive player and I'd almost call it fence sitting. (this is an add-on, not enough merit on its on but coupled with all the above it reads scummy.)

If anybody has any questions about anything in particular, and your name is not Orcinus, FratBoys, or MC Maraca, please ask and I'll endeavor to explain myself better.

[likeabauss]

A ton of caution.

This Fferylt? Nacho hasn't come back around yet? If/when he does, I would love his response to the question I posed earlier.

FWIW, I've failed at reading both Fferyllt and Nacho in the past as a townie. So, I'm cautious on applying a read to that slot. There are certain playstyles that I am terrible at reading (TIP is a great example as is Fferyllt.) Nacho I think I can peg a bit better, so I need him around to even attempt to sort that slot.

[likeabauss]

You forgot to answer this Bauss wrt orc.

Bauss are you really that sure this guy is scum?...

All I'm getting from my back and forth is that he's most likely town, I doubt scum would be this stubborn to get a mislynch in.

My bad. Yes, I'm 100%.

I'd caution against presuming he wouldn't be that stubborn to get a mislynch in. Throw everything away for a minute and just believe that I'm right on both FratBoys and Orcinus. If that is the case, there is a chance they start D2 down two scum (we lynch one today, vig if there is one bags another tonight.) They can't NK me because going into night after my redonkulous crusade today I'm a likely doc protect. Tomorrow, I jump right back into the death tunnel mode on suspect number 2 (if they weren't vig'd) or suspect #3 MC Maraca... only at that point I'd have serious town cred and be much harder to thwart. They are staring at back to back scum lynches for 2-3 days. That's a HUGE problem. They NEED to be stubborn and push a mislynch that doesn't conftown me. If they don't, they're setup to lose big, hard, and fast.

Yes, the above is an extrapolation and its based on me being right... I know. But the narrative of it fits so clean and neatly. It explains why they are defending each other. It explains the aggression. It explains why they won't break ranks and even pile a vote onto each other.

[likeabauss]

So if you're convinced he's scum due to Rank's meta, and you dont want to lynch them D1 because it'd be too cheap of a tactic in your opinion, what's your opinion wrt my back and forth with orc. You surely should have picked something up there.

Are you asking for my read on orc's play without the bias of my Rank slot read? I think you mentioned something to that effect earlier.

[likeabauss]

Okay, a couple things. Orcinus, I'm basically ignoring you because I'm not going to beat a dead horse. You keep asking for an example like it'll prove my read in either direction.

Let's say I link you a game where Rank replaced out D1 as scum. Will you openly admit that you are scum? Think that through... Okay, so should I give a shit what you ask for? Seriously. I know you're scum. I don't negotiate with terrorists. Let's not spam the thread with anymore of this.

Let's say I tell you that in my history with Rank, he's never once EVER replaced out on D1 as scum. Ever. You'll just say "SEE CAN"T PROVE IT. I'M AL CAPONE BITCH. YOU KNOW I'M SCUM BUT CAN'T PROVE IT. GET BENT"

The end result is the same. You can't admit I'm right, regardless of what I say/do. Let's move on.

Sakura -

Orcinus is doing the Al Capone thing. He's pushing momentum moves. He's avoided taking a stance on FratBros and MC Maraca. He jumped onto the Guyett thing. Actually, his only pushes that stick out to me have been on Guyett and Sakura. He's not really scum hunting, he's just screaming/trying not to get hung and discredit me/you/anybody that is open to exploring avenues of thought. I see lots of misrepping, saw some buddying. Specific to his exchange with you, misreps and flailing. He's desperate to secure a lynch target. His constant posting is Anti-Town in that it's keeping the less active players from being able to keep up with the game content and contribute meaningfully. It's obfuscation (like right after I posted my case on FratBros, back him comes with multiple posts.) Also note, no comment on my FratBros case from him. I think I remember him saying he thinks I'm town, but he's actively discrediting me. lol.

This:

would you be against providing a readslist

Look at how cautiously he asks for a readslist. I've said several times this game "Townies, please keep your town read to yourselves. Mafia will use them against you."

lol. Quick sidebar... Sakura... who was it that asked you for your reads list earlier?

Thanks

Since you're here, updated reads from the past few pages?

See a pattern? Okay, back to Orcinus:

When he came into the game and I said "Hi scum." he said "Sup." There's some other psychobabble I see that I won't bore everybody with, but it sort of segues into this:

There's a sociology going on with this scum team... they are all (or a majority are) experienced players (I called them cool kids earlier.) I hinted at this a couple times earlier. The team got picked, QT opened up, and I bet somebody said something or most of the people thought to themselves "Shit, our team is stacked with power players. We're going to win this shit." I'm inferring this because they're doing things that I consider rash and/or brazen for D1 in mafia. Openly defending each other, even when there is no REAL heat. Openly steering conversation. They're empowered by their collective skills as mafia and think they can just strong arm the flow of the game. My 3 targets aren't even considering getting on a bus of one of the others (FratBoys, Orc, MC Maraca.) Either of them could've tossed a vote and some heat on after I started... THEY AREN"T EVEN CLOSE TO GETTING HUNG. Instead, they defended. It's classic groupthink.

I hope that answers your question Sakura. I'm actively avoiding spending analysis time/posting/etc on Orcinus because he's already sorted in my mind.

[likeabauss]

Also, you think way too strongly that everything everyone does is a reaction to do, such as that orcinus "cautionusly asking for a reads list" is a direct response to your assertion that we should be careful with them this game. Even if he's scum he probably isn't that worried about one line that one person said. You are not the end all be all god of scumhunting.

I'm hyper fixed on him and him on me. It's not a stretch or outside the realm that yes, he is actually reacting to me. I never presume that everyone is reacting to me, and only to me. But, on that item specifically, Hemry and yourself also seemed to support the sentiment in 848 and 850 respectively. Orcinus being cautious in 998 several pages later isn't just a reaction to me... it's an adjustment or reaction to the overall sentiment. Sorry if I didn't spell that out more clearly.

[likeabauss]

Also, I almost want you to produce the italicized now because it's beginning to sound like this is baseless. And your failure to agree with my assumption tells me it was not a good assumption.

I think I stated, or meant to state, that I'm not going to delve much deeper into the Rank slot read than I need to. Just because I didn't respond, either to confirm or deny your assumption, doesn't validate or invalidate it. I'm just being courteous to a longtime friend and player who is no longer playing this game.

[likeabauss]

My cases aren't shit, they're just different. I play differently than most people on this board and so it may seem foreign to some of you. But I've had some pretty significant success here with my "shit cases." Fuck the pretentiousness of players here that put down somebody else's play. Seriously. Call it moonlogic, call it shit, I don't care. It works for me and its more fun than just rereading old games and saying "Meta, meta, meta."

If anybody wants to lynch scum today, I found two: FratBoys and Orcinus. One on my shit reads and the other on meta of a player that I know too well. I'm out for a bit.

[likeabauss]

Yessiree, we played together in Open 517 and we caught scum D1 on some simple nuance. Reread D1 there, look at what we bagged uncledaphne on. Sheep me on FratBros? I've got far more on him than we did on uncledaphne that game.

JacobSavage, AngryFratBoys is conveniently on your wagon (which has run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit) just like he was on the Guyett wagon (similarly run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit.) Doesn't that make you wonder? You are clearly not the best lynch right now for a town player, IMO. Why wouldn't he want to lynch between me and Orcinus to clear the air? Why is he just following the easy wagons? There is no town aligned logic that explains this behavior, because he is scum.

[likeabauss]

FratBros, do you accept or contest that there is both logic and science behind the disciplines of psychology and sociology?

My reads and cases are generally built heavily on the above. Actions and behaviors, words... they all occur within certain contexts that give them additional meaning. Nuance. That's where this beautiful special snowflake comes from. Its not rocket science, but it is science. I'm sorry if you don't understand it, I'm happy to take the time and explain better if you can formulate questions or thoughts instead of just screaming loudly "UR Dum, F U."

My appeal to Yessiree is an attempt to get his vote. I will continue to make appeals and try to get the votes I need to lynch you. Here's the people I'm hoping I can convince to vote for you:
Hermy
MVP
TIP
Sakura
Yessiree
JacobSavage

I'm hoping they think me credible enough, and that my case against you is more compelling than your angry "Wrong. Dumb." Which is basically all I've heard from your slot since I posted a fleshed out bulleted case against you.

If you're on that list, I'd love to answer questions or hear your opinion about my read or case on FratBros in 1048. I can clarify any points that aren't clear and lay out more complete logic behind each.

[likeabauss]

Y'know what likeabauss? Fine. You'll get what you want. If Orci flips scum then... well done. If he flips town then you get lynched. Alright?

VOTE: Orci

Thanks man! But I'm actually pushing to lynch AngryFratBros for today. Orci is also scum, but FratBoys goes first in my book.

[likeabauss]

Mara, that feels like a cop out and that makes me a sad panda. I'm not asking for your support just to get a lynch or lead a charge! (I'm actually insulted at the insinuation.) I'm only asking for your support to lynch FratBoys, because of my confidence in my read. I could play 10 more games and not have a read I feel so strongly about. This sort of vote whoring is not something I do often or take lightly.

How about you just help me lynch FratBros so we can end this day and start fresh tomorrow? I'll take any vote, it doesn't have to be principled or committed to the cause. Frivolous or frustrated is fine. He's a tough one to lynch, I know. But I'm going to give it all I've got and your vote would help speed things along.

FratBros, don't call me retarded ever again. K thx bai.

[likeabauss]

FratBros, don't call me retarded ever again. K thx bai.

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and read the way in which I've crushed your shitty case.

Hahaha. Crushed? That's almost the worst rebuttal I've ever seen. I didn't even think it was serious, I thought you were just raging and typing. But if that is your rebuttal, it is your best foot forward, and you're confident with it in its current form, I'll gladly respond... (likely on Monday when I'm at a computer.) Do you want to phone a friend? Or maybe use another lifeline? Because "LOLOL, UR Moron" isn't exactly a crushing rebuttal.

[likeabauss]

12) Mis-reps - 358, 540, 624, 629, 728

WAY TO NOT LINK ANY OF THOSE POSTS TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN DUE DILIGENCE, BECAUSE A HALF-RETARDED MONKEY COULD SEE THAT YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP

Lol. I said I'd reply on Monday in the very post you quoted. I didn't think you were actually serious in believing that to be a rebuttal. I mean, in one of your points to rebuke my case (which I reposted above) you thwarted me with this amazing and infallible defense that amounted to, "You forgot to put post tags, na-na-na-poo-poo." On Monday, I'll go through all those posts and point out specifically what I saw. I'll also go through your other rantings and give them a more thorough explanation. I tried to keep it concise, since it was already several points long and wall post status was achieved.

Can I add an OMGUS to the case against you as well? Or would I be making stuff up there too? Do I need to link to the specific post where you did it and a page detailing what OMGUS is as proof that what you did is actually OMGUS, lest you invalidate the accusation by saying "Prove it!"?

Exhibit A, in the case for OMGUS: 1229, see "Vote Bauss"
Exhibit B: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... d_You_Suck
Exhibit C: Click my ISO, and note the lobbying for FratBoys as scum since he entered the game

Can we just lynch it already? Good grief.

[likeabauss]

Sorry to hear that Yessiree.

TIP and Sangres, will you support a FratBros lynch with me? Take into consideration the strength of my read on Rank's slot and that I'm still pushing a FratBros lynch.

[likeabauss]

And if that's Cabd, when you have time and if you'd be so kind, I'd like answers to my post 865. To clarify, those weren't rhetorical questions.

[likeabauss]

Cabd, I did explain my Rank read pretty thoroughly (831). You didn't ask for details, you just straight discredited me immediately after. You then did something self-contradictory when I started to press you. Let me explain this:

You suggested that you knew of me and Rank, having read/stalked some of our games. (Though you and I have never played together.)

In closing a post, I said:
"I can't see another scenario. Especially from you"

Then this:

WRT the bolded I thought you'd never played with the cabd-head. Now all of a sudden you can tell me what you'd expect from it?

You're:
A) implying that I'm not qualified to have expectations of your play because I haven't played a game with you
B) in an argument where you're discrediting my read of somebody I've played a ton of games with
C) after positioning yourself as knowledgeable about Me and Rank because you've READ a few of our games

Do you see why I'm having a really hard time with your position on my Rank slot read? You didn't even ask a question. You went to straight up discredit. The logic of my read on Rank in 831 is not only sound, its spot on. If he were here, I suspect he'd echo the sentiment almost exactly, and I think you know that. And then when I pressed you for a conversation on it, your whole reaction and position became self contradictory.

Your words and behaviors directly contradicted themselves.

[likeabauss]

I'm only 4 votes away from lynching him. If you and TIP come along, a couple others will too and he'll dangle. I get your read on the slot, but its on meta and you and I both know he's a good enough player to manipulate that. His tantrums didn't seem that real to me, (RC mentioned this too.)

There's no glory in stringing up Orcinus on D1 for me. I didn't pyschobabble anything, or flame him into exposing himself, or logically rip him apart to peg him as scum. Its cheap and hollow for me. I'll derive no pleasure from it.

If I didn't have another strong scum read, then yes of course. But I started down this path and I'd like to see it through. If I can't pull it off, then 100% I'll ride that Orcinus train with you.

[likeabauss]

Here's some. I spoilered my original accusations and bolded FratBros responses for ease of reference and scroll management.

Spoiler:

1) Al Capone Ego (psychobabble) This is tied to the "Proof or GTFO." Al Capone ego goes something like this "You can't PROVE I killed those people, even though everybody knows I did." I hinted at pieces of this in earlier posts, and he's done it a coupe times. He's refuting an argument strictly because I can't prove it... like proving anything on D1 in mafia is possible. This is scum behavior.

OR IT'S TOWN TRYING TO WORK WITH SOMEONE TO TURN AROUND A SHITTY READ.

No. The nuance here is that you were/are demanding proof of something that you know nobody can prove. I can't prove you're guilty, nobody can. It's D1. There is no proof. Why ask for it? It's an absolutely useless post. You could've said "I disagree" or "That's not a strong enough tell on it's own" or any number of other dequalifiers.

Spoiler:

2) Guilty Conscience (psychobabble) Talked about it previously.

AKA BULLSHIT THAT YOU'RE SPEWING TO MAKE ME LOOK WORSE

This isn't really an appropriate response. You can't just say "BS" to refute an argument. Here's a primer on how word choices provide insights into the brain:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/let ... they-speak
There are much more in depth applications. It can be very effective, until the subject (you in this case) is aware that reading of that nature is going on. (This is a big part of why I keep my cases to myself, and don't always explain my reads in great detail. These are some cool tools that I use frequently in mafia, but the more I talk about them the less effective they become with people who are aware.)

Spoiler:

3) Momentum shift onto easy Guyett wagon (Guyett seems pretty clearly ambivalent/frustrated town to me) Anti-town behavior to run up on D1 so fast and hard, and setup a lynch with so little contributions from other players.

"IT'S ANTI-TOWN TO PUSH WAGONS AND APPLY PRESSURE. ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE YOU'RE SCUMREADING." ARE YOU REALLY THIS FUCKING RETARDED

This is either a misrep, or your skimming my posts. Earlier, in 795, I talked about why this move was shady. It was early on D1, with a number of players not having contributed much yet, and you helped accelerate a wagon right in the middle of some content development that was starting from players who had previously not been adding much. Town needs conversation and interactions between players to flesh out reads. It wasn't just that you pushed the wagon, it was also the TIMING of it. It was anti-town in nature.

Spoiler:

4) Setting up for future easy lynch targets - talked about this previously

"HE'S SCUM, THEREFORE WHAT HE DOES IS SCUMMY." CIRCULAR LOGIC FTW YOU FUCKWAD.

I especially like this one. Again you didn't actually refute or challenge my case. You said clearly, earlier, that of all the active posters you had townreads on. You further stated that the scum were not posting. This is positioning, plain and simple. Generally speaking, people who post less are easier to lynch than active players. They don't defend as much, they lack the body of work that allows other players to develop proper reads on them, etc. etc.

Note: This behavior also directly contradicts with your behavior above on the Guyett wagon. If you say you want the scum to start posting so you can find them, why did you rush the Guyett wagon to L-2? Why not draw the non-posters into the conversation? When actions and behaviors don't match up with what you're saying, it's generally because you're scum.

Spoiler:

5) Defending scum buddy Orcinus (this is leveraged, and I know most will skip over it, fine. But Orcinus is also scum and FratBoys actively defended the slot before even attempting to sort said slot.) I asked a similar line to Cabd. Why does a townie defend another player that they haven't strongly sorted from another player? Especially if the accusing player is a townread.

"OH EM GEE, I USED SHITTY LOGIC TO SCUMREAD HIM, AND IT'S SCUMMY OF HIM TO POINT OUT WHEN I USE THAT SAME SHITTY LOGIC ON SOMEONE ELSE." THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE THIS FUCKING RETARDED. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT.

Like I said, this is leveraged. In order to make sense of this read, you have to operate under the premise that Orcinus is scum. My read on Rank replacing out was much different than the replacement prod I threw at you earlier for discussion. But, for giggles, let's explore it a bit farther...

Why, if you were townreading me at the time (please correct me if I'm wrong assumption), did you jump in to defend the Rank/Orcinus slot? He wasn't catching votes. If the logic/premise of the argument was shit, let Orcinus defend it himself. Why did you HELP him? You stepped in on behalf of somebody who's alignment you hadn't even sorted yet (please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.)

Spoiler:

6) Steering conversation - things like shutting down an interrogation into another suspect, trying to get people to focus back on what he states/says is important, etc. Theres several examples of this. It's anti-town behavior, and most often scum.

POINT OUT WHERE I'VE DONE THIS. OH WAIT, YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP AGAIN.

This is harder to point to, because it is more of an ebb and flow of the game. Timing, etc. I had a discussion with Mollie and Nacho I think about this in another game. I'll let this point slide for now rather than try to explain it, because it would require a lot of words and this post is already getting beefy, again. Note, I'm not conceding this point... I just don't want to whargarbl up the thread anymore than I have to.

Spoiler:

7) Wanting to lynch RC despite what I perceive as an in thread subtle vouch (Post 269) I stuck this in there because it supports a few of the above items. Orcinus is also conveniently on this maneuver.

RC IS FUCKING RETARDED AND SCUMMY. THAT'S TWO GOOD REASONS TO WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE

This response isn't really a suitable defense either. Somebody else in thread said quite clearly that RC was acting far outside of normal meta/context. This suggested quite clearly to me, reading between the lines, that it was deliberate. Subsequent conversation with RC verified that it was in fact deliberate. Whether it is scummy or not isn't the question... it's that you pushed a lynch on it rather than consider the possibilities or scenarios that would explain the strange departure in behavior. (Personally, I don't think scum would actively draw attention in the way RC did, so I moved that behavior to the null/town side... not scum.)

Spoiler:

8) Overly defensive - example: he defended against an OBVIOUS joke I made about Jersey Shore and GTL. Not even a chuckle, or laugh, and he didn't just glaze over it. He addressed it directly like it had merit. There's a few other examples. He's still trying to refute me, despite having a SINGLE vote on him and not being in any trouble. This is tied to #2 and #1 lightly, but is scummy behavior in its own right. To clarify a bit, this is a departure from expected behaviors. Look at his post 343. He cuts up RC for doing exactly what he does later with my joke. Pretty lol IMO. Again in 607 about taking jokes seriously.

SORRY NOT SORRY THAT NEITHER I NOR MY PARTNER WATCH THAT PIECE OF SHIT SHOW, AND THEREFORE DIDN'T GET YOUR RETARDED JOKE

You didn't/don't have to watch the show to derive clearly that I was making a joke or being facetious. There's literally nothing serious or substantive in the entire reference. Let's reread it again:

Plus, there was the whole "Gym fist, then knowledge." Everybody knows you can't skip tanning and laundry and go straight to schooling bitches. GTL, then lynching scum. Get your mind right first. Only gready grimy scum would suggest skipping the laundromat.

You defended against that. You actually wrote a defense like it was an accusation. After earlier in the game saying you guys joke a lot, and even railing on somebody else for not getting a joke. 343, 607.


More soon.

[likeabauss]

Guyett, you should come back to FratBros. With your vote, we're only 3 away from lynch.

[likeabauss]

When someone references psychological stuff... they're probably scum.
So yeah orcinus vote is best vote.

TIP, this doesn't work in my mind. Are you saying I'm probably scum for referencing psychobabble?

You know I do psychobabble stuff all the time, alignment regardless.

[likeabauss]

Orcinus, when I'm a townie and its D1, it always makes me uncomfortable when somebody I haven't really interacted with much jumps into a fight with a third party to defend me. I mean, I'm a big boy... I can defend myself. Plus, that person usually doesn't have any business defending me, especially if they haven't sorted me yet (and may not have sorted the third party.)

So there was me coming at you, and two folks who clearly jumped in to discredit/debate my attack on you (AngryFratBros and MC Maraca.) Now:
1) if you're town (which we know you aren't) you'd be suspicious of two meat heads randomly defending you. Seems like good/reasonable play to me.
2) if you're scum (which you are), a reasonably good play would be to setup a lynch on either or both of the two if they were townies by feigning suspicion of their defending. It'd be an easy angle to press, especially if you had an annoying egotistical and highly suspicious player that'd help (that's me.)

But you've done neither of the above.

In this scenario/narrative above, explain what I'm missing from your perspective.

[likeabauss]

Can we please wtf unvote RC? What's happening?

Is town too blind to see that a probable reason we cant lynch either FratBros or Orcinus is because townies have divided between the two wagons?

C'mon people. FratBros or Orcinus. I'm literally begging for votes, so confident I'll do the 1 v 1 thing, and consistently laying out more and more reasons why these two are scum. Their responses are "UR Shitlord" and or "BS prove it." I mean, is this an acceptable defense in anybody's mind? You dont have to buy into my psychobabble to see that something is seriously wrong with their play.

I'm not going any farther on my Rank read. I don't give a crap how many times anybody asks. I said why several times. He's not even in this game anymore, and aside from that we have players who know Orcinus who are actually scum reading his play.

Lastly Cephrir, why on Gods green earth would you vote for somebody on D1 that is a policy lynch or whatever, when you have two other options that both yield way more info to town? I don't need you to like me, and you can attack my cases all you want, but hanging between FratBoys and Orcinus right now does far more for town than a PL on RC.

[likeabauss]

See, I saw what you said, and this is bullshit. You don't want to screw over your friend metawise, but here you are making a meta-based argument which if true would do precisely that. If Rank's slot did flip scum, this argument would become pretty valid and whether or not you cite these games would not be relevant to whether or not others could use this against him in the future, all they'd have to do would be to cite this game.

Completely disagree. Rank is an experienced player. He would/could knowingly manipulate instances of a certain behavior in his game history to throw off reads based on the same. Your meta based argument is flawed, as follows:

You're saying (along with a huge majority of the player base on this board):
1) Player Joe in game 1234 was of alignment scum and did X.
2) In future games, Player Joe, doing x again, indicates the same alignment.

I'm saying:
1) Player Joe in game 1234 was of alignment scum and did X.
2) Player Joe knows he did it, and knows that you know he did it.
3) Player Joe mucks your read up next game because he replicates the behavior (or avoids the behavior as the case may be) thereby masking the tell.

If every game I'm town, I rage like a maniac and death tunnel a player... don't you think I could draw a scum alignment and knowingly rage like a maniac and death tunnel a player? I'm not a moron. I can review and understand my own play and make refinements and behavioral changes accordingly.

Why do very few people on this board understand this theory?

Here's another example: Somebody said FratBros only rages and loses control when he's town, he's generally a very level headed scum player (I think it was Nacho.) You cannot operate on the assumption that FratBros always plays level headed and cool when he draws a scum role. If you do, you're handicapping yourself as a player when reading FratBros (because one day he'll rage like a maniac as scum and fool you.) This is why I look at BEHAVIORS and ACTIONS in the current game. They are real. You can point to them and analyze them, determine what the player is actually trying to do. Are the maneuvers pro-town? Do they correspond with what the player is saying? Do they correspond with what the player is actually doing?

Cephrir, what do you make of my behavioral challenge to Cabd in post 1282. Let's use that as a point of discussion to move forward with... Does the logic behind my suspicion there make sense to you?

[likeabauss]

Do you have any previously given reasons (you or anybody) about why either of these two are scum?

On FratBros:
842
1048
1319

On Rank/Orcinus:
597
831
1059

[likeabauss]

Alright, so at this point, the FratBros lynch is failing. I'll shift over to Orcinus, but with all due respect I'd like to reserve my vote for the hammer.

Yessiree, Orcinus? Help me rally it up and bang it out? I burned a lot of stock pushing on FratBros.

TIP will you go back over to him?

RC, you too?

[likeabauss]

Anybody notice anything strange about Orcinus's reads list?

[likeabauss]

I'm busy for a few days but I'm reading, just posting light

VOTE: Orcinus

I just can't read anymore of the crap coming from him and FratBoys. Its not even mediocre scum play, it just makes me sad.

MC Maraca, I'll respond when Cabd responds to me. Pretty sure I asked him some questions first.

Cephrir, did I miss a response from you? And why is your vote on somebody that you don't think is scum? Did I read that right?

And in case a miracle happens and I wake up to find Orcinus lynched:
Scum = FratBoys, MC Maraca
They'll both be near impossible to hang with their teammates holding votes (as evidenced by today.) So an overnight kill would be ideal.

[likeabauss]

Rank def would not have subbed out as town cop. Fail fakeclaim.

DO NOT CC.

Somebody hammer it please.

[likeabauss]

Because that makes him ever the more so deadly as a town player. He'd have kept board meta and played RankLite through to D3 or so, depending on the game flow. Then it would have been a triumphant game winning reveal of "I'm cop, and this bugger is scum, this guy town, and scum over there #2, Hi5 town, Bauss sucks/Rank rules."

[likeabauss]

Hang it before somebody outs themselves. This is a calculated info gathering claim by the scum.

[likeabauss]

Saving that for twilight, if that's okay. I'm typing up a post furiously

[likeabauss]

i'm impressed with bauss

FTFY. I love you too man. Sorry you subbed into Rank's slot and got stuck with that. You and FratBoys did a good job though.

[likeabauss]

I never wanted an Orc lynch.

I want fking Frat Bro.

Me too but roll with me on Orcinus and we can slay FratBros tomorrow

[likeabauss]

You've got to be kidding me. Orcinus is scum. Lynch him please. EVERYBODY WHO RESPONDS TO THIS BULLSHIT CLAIM INDICATES TO SCUM THEY ARE OR ARE NOT A/THE COP.

See example: Toomai, TIP, Sakura are likely NOT COPS (if town, which mafia knows, but we don't. You're tipping the balance of the info battle further into scum favor.)

Jesus christ people. Orcinus is lying. Hang him. ASAP.

[likeabauss]

I don't really believe in orc's claim, but it seems like an easy wagon so I'm also hesitant to vote for him.

Let me fix that for you:

I want to cast doubt on this claim in case the lynch swings that way, but I'm worried I might get heat for actually attacking him. I'll just post here and test the waters to see how town swings.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: caled

This is actually a pretty good argument.

Yeah, it kinda reminds me of this one:

I am too hesitant to lynch investigative claims though, I know this. sangres, convince me to ignore my better judgement?

"I know right? Like, I want to lynch it, but I'm hesitant. Blargh. Somebody talk me into/out of it please?"

[likeabauss]

wtf is this shit?

VOTE: caledfwitch

Its a carefully crafted redirect onto an easy to lynch lurker, designed to save the fake claimed scum and enable future WIFOM like whoa.

VOTE: Orcinus

Let's stop the madness.

[likeabauss]

Hey guys, not sure if you've heard this before:

Rank would not sub out on D1 as town. 100%
Rank would not sub out on D1 as cop. 150%
Orcinus is scum. ((100% + 150%) / 2) = 125%

Math is fun!

[likeabauss]

FratBros, you can keep screaming loudly at the top of your lungs, but I laid out a pretty substantial case against you and your response is pure suck. Just because I'm not continuing to drill at you doesn't mean you're right. You're now attempting to paint me as scum, without laying out any type of case on me. It's quite laughable really.

I substantiated both claims on Rank, with an in-depth analysis of him as a player and his play (based on 10 years of playing mafia with him.) You're asking me to substantiate a meta read that spans a volume of work you couldn't possibly read and understand in enough time to vote appropriately. There's an evolution of play, different archetypes he plays, deliberately different meta on different boards, calculated play refinements based on board play, and then there's a personal level of conversation and post game chats that provides far greater insight and depth on him than simply reading a game he played... you're asking like my meta read on Rank is something simple that I can point to a game or two and say "Here it is."

You're asking like you can only prove somebody is a murderer if they have murdered before.

[likeabauss]

i dont want to try in this game anymore

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Somebody smart said something like that once.

[likeabauss]

Why do you not like the Caled wagon?

Because the guy that started it and a few people on it are scumreads for me. Couple that with the fact that it was a quick swing off Orcinus... who is scum. Its just all around bad.

[likeabauss]

Nacho, that you? I'd like to nail down your read on MCMaraca.

Second, I wonder why you aren't pushing for an Orcinus lynch if you trust my Rank read. (If that's changed, please advise.)

[likeabauss]

Why because I am really not liking his tunnelling.

It almost seems like he is pushing the lynch more now we have the claim rather than re-evaluating.

@Buss how well do you know Rank in Real Life?

Very well.

[likeabauss]

So you'd know if he had any Real Life issues that caused him to disappear?

100%, yes.

[likeabauss]

Orcinus or FratBros for today in my book. I also won't support any lynch that either or both of them support (because, scum.) Between the two of them, they've been on RC, Guyett, Sakura (all town reads of mine.)

Letting Orcinus live today is only rewarding him for crappy play and a fake claim, and gimping the town by the WIFOM a fake claimed cop will create.

Rank wouldn't have quit as town cop. Period. This is an easy breezy D1 scum lynch if you just trust that I know Rank. Take it one step further and look at Orcinus's scummy play as highlighted by other players that know him.

Lastly, if we as a board simply give a pass when somebody fakeclaims a PR to avoid lynch, we are in effect gimping town PRs on a macro level. They have to expose themselves to CC, conceal their contempt for the fakeclaimer if they decide to not CC (lest they be identified by the scum team), or risk outting themselves and being hung anyways. The risks of a scum fake claim, in this given situation, are far less. Orcinus was about to be hung anyways so the fake claim gained him an opportunity to draw out a real cop, the potential to completely avoid an otherwise straightforward lynch, or the worst case scenario... draw out the real cop and lynch him/her anyways. The risks are all inherently on the town side, with nothing but advantages for the scum side, given this sweeping avoidance of lynching an un-CC'd PR and this scenario. This policy or board play is a power shift to the scum team, if we allow it to be the policy.

And even if I didn't think Orcinus was scum, I'd still think it highly suspicious that on D1 he claimed cop after his previous play for the dayphase. I don't think it jives at all. If he was actually town, why not lie and claim vanilla? Or BP? Breadcrumb and try to get some investigates off? An outted cop on D1 is getting RB'd or dead... and fast.

[likeabauss]

BP = bulletproof? Did I use an incorrect acronym? 1shot BP is a town role?

Both FratBros and Orcinus have the exact same lynch list. No way they'd have the same targets? Too obvious to be scumbuddies, right? Hi5 on that brilliant line of thinking (fail.) How naive/scummy can you be? Have you played mafia before? I mean wtf with this.

Based on my reads, I've got a short list of people (about 4) that could be the real cop. I'm guessing the mafia will be able to generate the same or a smaller list. So copper, you might only get 1-2 investigates and you should take that into consideration as you go forward. You can confirm Orcinus scum with your CC and hopefully clear/guilty somebody tonight. But going too far beyond that, your chances of surviving long enough to reveal will dwindle.

[likeabauss]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Orcinus is practically begging for a CC. He, amongst others, keeps referring to the fact that we can't hang him without a CC. Guess why? Does that strike anybody as a town mindset?

[likeabauss]

Also, not sure why nobody checked this sooner, but Rank hasn't posted on site since before his replace-out.

Bauss's case is bullshit.

He's not in any other games that I'm aware of at the moment. I chatted with him the other day about some business consulting work, and we discussed signing up for a TunnelVision hydra game once I'm out of this one. I mentioned a bourbon tasting event on the horizon where I'll be swimming in some of our favorite barrels. We laughed about "winter" hunting down south, and I harassed him for buying a hybrid now that turbo diesels have gained such traction in the marketplace.

You've really got a lot of eggs in the "defend Orcinus" basket, huh pal?

[likeabauss]

Two more votes!

Toomai?
Caled?
Guyett?

[likeabauss]

Toomai, Sakura, come onto Orcinus. I don't think we should make Caled claim and/or lynch her.

[likeabauss]

If you don't trust my Rank read, just look at his behavior. Reread his ISO, look at the deviations in play as things progressed. Look at post claim play, certainly not that of town.

[likeabauss]

Guyett? Back me up on Orcinus. All my scum reads are on the Caled wagon. Isn't that a sign?

[likeabauss]

Votecount 1.25

Guyett [L-3] - PeregrineV, Sakura Hana,

orcinus_theoriginal

, TheIrishPope, Toomai,

Angry Frat BROs

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

,

orcinus_theoriginal

, Cephrir, Hermy

JacobSavage [L-4] - sangres,

MC Maraca

, Cephrir, Hermy,

Angry Frat BROs

RadiantCowbells [L-4] -

MC Maraca

, TheIrishPope, RadiantCowbells, Cephrir,

orcinus_theoriginal

caledfwitch [L-3] -

MC Maraca

, Guyett, Cephrir, sangres,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Angry Frat BROs

4 potentially viable wagons for today, outside of FratBros and Orcinus for today. Look at who is on most of them. This isn't rocket science. Orcinus has been on ALL of them. FratBros and McMaraca on 3 each.

[likeabauss]

Angry Frat BROs [L-4] - likeabauss, Toomai, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, PeregrineV

orcinus_theoriginal [L-1] - Sakura Hana, sangres, Guyett, PeregrineV, Toomai, likeabauss, yessiree, TheIrishPope

orcinus_theoriginal [L-2] - PeregrineV, likeabauss, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, MVP, yessiree, Sakura Hana

Wagons for FratBros and Orcinus above. NOTICE who isn't on ANY OF THOSE WAGONS?

Angry Frat BROs

orcinus_theoriginal

MC Maraca

Doesn't that strike anybody else as odd? Out of place? They've basically been ALL about lynching anybody else, except for FratBros and Orcinus.

[likeabauss]

Sangres only on 2. You're only on 3. Two of them are different vote counts for the same wagon, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Why would you vote to lynch other than your scummiest/scummier read? Mind boggling to me.

The wagon analysis was just demonstrating that all three of my scumreads have been on pretty much every other wagon, except for their scumpadres wagon. (Conveniently, you too as noted. Read below.)

I'm only slight scum on you and discounting my read because of our dynamic (I don't have conviction in my read on you at this point.) Its natural to lean scum on somebody who discredits you, and attacks your arguments, so I'm not putting much stock in my read on you as a result. I hope to develop a better read as the game goes on.

Caled wasn't on any of the other wagons either. She's pretty much parked her vote on her scum read. That's a dramatically different behavior than voting for everybody else but Orcinus and FratBros. Are you just being dense, or is your disdain for me clouding your judgment?

[likeabauss]

On Orcinus... its because he's scum. Why can't we just pull together and lynch him? There's enough of a case on his play alone, by experienced familiar players.

[likeabauss]

Sangres, I feel like you're trying to talk yourself out of voting for Orcinus. All the indications you've alluded to suggest he's scum based on your experience? Nacho trusts my Rank meta and if my previous assumption is correct your gut read on Orcinus says scum... so what gives?

I just don't get this board sometimes. People will flash wagon a noob who didn't do anything scummy, but won't hang a well known veteran who is basically screaming "I'm scum."

[likeabauss]

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

The logic here doesn't work. He can clear scum buddies, along with actually townies. If he goes three nights without lynch, we can't be sure if he cleared actual townies or conftown'd scum buddies. I'm sure you understand this.

Leashing an SK comes with proven documented validity. The people die, their roles are revealed. Our only hope of validating Orcinus's claims is by a real cop verifying ALL OF THEM.

[likeabauss]

Bauss, if you had to declare a 4th and 5th scumread, who would those be?

I'll post a reads list, given that the day is almost done and I think it's important for town to be able to evaluate post flip.

Scum list (all described earlier):
FratBros
Orcinus
MCMaraca

Leaning scum:
Cephrir (described this earlier)

I'll go out on a limb and continue to be suspicious of:
TIP (I literally can't sort him)
Sangres (I've been horribly wrong about both of these players in the past)

Null:
Sakura
Toomai
Hermy
JacobSavage

Town:
Yessiree
RC
Peregrine
MVP
caledwitch
Guyett

[likeabauss]

I'd like to hear why you suspect me aside from "he's not sheeping me".

This:

I'm only slight scum on you and discounting my read because of our dynamic (I don't have conviction in my read on you at this point.) Its natural to lean scum on somebody who discredits you, and attacks your arguments, so I'm not putting much stock in my read on you as a result. I hope to develop a better read as the game goes on.

It's mostly a gut read, not based on your actual play. And I've openly discounted it due to a natural bias. I'm not saying "Let's lynch Cephrir" but I'm also not going to say I'm null or town on you. Just being honest/open.

@bauss again: You expect everyone else to unconditionally accept your Rank meta (without backing it up I might add) but you aren't willing to accept anyone else's meta on me, apparently?

My Rank-fu is strong. Seriously though, I provided a thoroughly detailed explanation of my Rank read (831), I just didn't cite a bunch of completed games as references. I have deliberately avoided exploiting his game play/tendencies when he's not even here to defend himself (As a matter of courtesy or etiquette if you will.) And, for what its worth, I hate meta reads as they are used on this board for reasons I discussed earlier (1386). My read on Rank is based on a profile of him as a player/person, and my experience with him. Not, "He subbed out on D1 in game 1234, and was scum. Therefore, he must be scum this game."

I haven't seen a comprehensive "case" (or profile of you) as to why you're town/scum on meta (if I missed it, please advise.) But at this point, you've shared openly/discussed willingly all the topics of conversation. This is the type of play that will yield a better vantage point into your alignment after a couple days. So, I'm content to personally sort you later when the body of work becomes available.

[likeabauss]

LIKE, I ISO'D YOU AND I STILL CAN'T FIND IT

BUT OMGGG

I saw a post, where you were griping on how everyone just suddenly accepted my read on TIP

BUT THAT'S BECAUSE I BACK UP MY REASONS

AND, I HAVE HAD GAMES WHERE I HAVE HAD TO FIGHT FOR HIM ANYWAY

so, you aren't alone in that "why won't anyone listen to me when I'm right" department

831. I backed up my reasons. That's some pretty serious insight into Rank. Why are people saying I haven't supported my Rank meta read? Should I link you all to all the different games we played together? WTF would that prove. How do you prove something like what I'm asserting? I just don't get it. I know I can't make anybody certain of it like I am just by linking some games. I understand that 100%.

I've heard your reasons for TIP reads, stuff like "Town TIP is something that Scum TIP hasn't been able to replicate" And so on. Great, but none of is ground breaking analysis like you're suggesting. Its nuance, but I acknowledge you know his game and read him well. You and nacho, along with a couple others. So, you're both town reading him, I trust that. Its a leveraged read for me. You (as scum or town) can say TIP is scum or town, and I trust it. I saw TIP get lynched as scum in under 3 pages of a game, D1. I didn't see it, but they did. Sometimes you trust the reads of other people.

Rarely am I the guy with a rock solid read. I'm generally the beat em up, feel them out, catch a slip, fight like a bastard, type of player. So this IS unusual for me, and part of the reason why I wanted to push on FratBros first. But that flopped, and I cant ignore an obvious (to me) scum slot.

Rank has NEVER subbed out on a D1 of a game with me, ever. Here, recently, we hydra'd and drew a scum role. He was MIA for the first couple days and I got into a rhythm without him. He didn't want to ruin the rhythm and so he basically had 3 posts all game. He talked about not reading the role PM to avoid knowing our scum mates. He didn't read/post in the QT to avoid the top of mind awareness of associations/disassociations. He wasn't worried about letting me down as hydra partner, he was worried about letting the team down. He knew the game was tight, he knew we had to go to the end game, and he wasn't confident in our ability to get there if we drew any extra heat. He doesn't like the lying/hiding and knew I was on a good course, so he backed me up with his town skills.

He likes the mystery of figuring out the game, scum hunting, trying to figure out night moves. He helped me immensely doing just the same, but there was an obvious tell in it all... after drooling for a hydra scum role, he essentially bailed on me. He left me to post/fight the whole game through. Now, he helped me strategize, but he did it with the mind of a townie that didn't have all the info. So, it was invaluable insights but it came from his strength... being of a townie mindset. Ranks phenomenal as town and a great PR holder... he never gets NK'd until 3-4 nights in. Rarely gets mislynched. Knows how to rally votes and build town blocs, etc. Its his forte. Scum game, is the opposite.

Meta proof of above, Shadows and Lights Mafia.

As town, Rank is way more active and engaged. Even when he's busy.

[likeabauss]

I SAID SUM CASE ON US AND CEPH

You said like 10 things. I'm doing the best I can, as quickly as possible... I've got a bunch of crap going on.

I posted about Ceph like twice. There is no case, just a gut read. And its discounted because of bias.

On you, Cabd failed his "Logic" midterm exam and his thesis on "contradictory behavior" left something to be desired, but I need to spend some real time heating you two up. I'm thinking that'll be D2 due to time constraints.

[likeabauss]

Somebody said Varsoon was in MVP hydra. MVP hydra said "No." Do we believe Varsoon is a head there or not?

[likeabauss]

AP = Angry Pidgeon = head in FratBros hydra = head in BirdandBeast hydra = Correct?

[likeabauss]

~Pete (totally not Varsoon)

You are Varsoon. I knew it. Are you here? Can we chat?

[likeabauss]

@AP head of FratBros... In Shadows/Lights: Were any of the lengthy posts yours? If yes, can you point me to a couple? NOT SIGNING POSTS MAKES HYDRA PLAY META DIVING A BITCH. Or is there a trick to picking you out of a hydra?

[likeabauss]

Rank has NEVER subbed out on a D1 of a game with me, ever. Here, recently, we hydra'd and drew a scum role. He was MIA for the first couple days and I got into a rhythm without him. He didn't want to ruin the rhythm and so he basically had 3 posts all game. He talked about not reading the role PM to avoid knowing our scum mates. He didn't read/post in the QT to avoid the top of mind awareness of associations/disassociations. He wasn't worried about letting me down as hydra partner, he was worried about letting the team down. He knew the game was tight, he knew we had to go to the end game, and he wasn't confident in our ability to get there if we drew any extra heat. He doesn't like the lying/hiding and knew I was on a good course, so he backed me up with his town skills.

Did you look up what the word "substantiate" means?

Because this is the first post you've made that's substantiated your case.

Rank's not even here to defend himself. Its pretty bullshit that you, amongst others, are demanding I substantiate a read that I've openly stated I'm avoiding getting too deep into. Its an injustice to a player I respect to air out his play and methods without him having an opportunity to refute/discuss/obfuscate. Seriously.

So forgive me for not giving a crap about what you've asked me to "substantiate." You think Orcinus is sitting at L2 without substance? Are you reading this game or just skimming because you're scum? Just because you don't see the substance in my cases doesn't mean it isn't there.

Lastly, after my substantiation, why aren't you voting Orcinus?

[likeabauss]

MVP, what do you think of #1989? It's pretty much the only reason we're contemplating not voting orc today.

I think your case on Orcinus is the most compelling case of the day. The strength of that analysis plus my read, I mean... why is he still sitting at L2? Its because his scum pals are hoping nobody has the balls to L-1/hammer his face.

Let's go townies. Reread Nacho science in 1943. Vote Orcinus. Pwn scum D1.

[likeabauss]

Bauss is scumreading sangres and supporting their case on me at the same time? His case still lacks meta. And let me pick up this gem:

Where did I ever say I was scum reading that slot? I'm carefully suspicious of them because I've read them both wrong in the past. That's a huge difference.

[likeabauss]

Suggesting I, or Rank, cheated is an insult I won't tolerate. I have too much fun playing and respect for the game to tarnish it, lest of all just to say "I won" or "I was right."

Calling the Rank sub out a "Trust Tell" doesn't seem appropriate either. Its not something he's ever done before, and it was a departure enough from normal that I couldn't help but notice. I don't know what to call it, if you want to slap a name on it. I myself admitted it was crap, but I couldn't ignore it. Suggesting Rank and I not play together as a result is also BS. That's like suggesting some of you don't play with TIP, since you read him so well so frequently. Lastly, FWIW, I've been wrong about Rank several times despite being certain, in my own mind, that I was right. That's how mafia goes. Sometimes you're right, and sometimes you're dead wrong.

I'm not the only player here that recognized scum players early on D1, but I'm the only one being called a cheater. Was it helpful to me to leverage off of the Rank/Orci slot read? Of course. But if you come out on D1, play brazenly, openly defend and bloc together, you're gambling... and that's an aggressive bet. I'm pretty good at mafia, and if you bring less than your "A" game, there's a chance I'm going to sniff you out. Don't accuse me of cheating just because you played like shit. FU. Seriously. I picked up FratBros before Rank subbed, and the stuff I fired at Cabd was dead nuts on.

And to be honest, by the end of D1 I had Cephrir down as a likely cop and MVP down as SK/Vig. (That's part of the reason I didn't want to heat up Cephrir but put him on my suspect list.) I also got farther away from confident on FratBros the more confident I was on MCMaracascum. I didn't really believe that you'd both as scum, vote as you were, discredit me, and defend Orcinus. My tentative plan was to head into D2 and push on MCMaraca pending night info and flips.

[likeabauss]

Just by the way

Just because a trust tell doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's not a trust tell anymore
-Quadz

I'm still bitter about varsoon getting banned and then bauss won't be banned for this gigantic waste of my time.

There's a dramatic difference between Varsoon claiming his alignment truthfully EVERY game, and me knowing Rank was scum because he subbed out once out of 50 games. I don't agree with the Varsoon ban myself, but trying to draw a parallel between that and what happened this game is pretty far off. I even apologized to you directly and openly in thread because I felt bad you subbed into that. That was genuine. And kudos for sticking it out and going down swinging.