NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Angry Frat BROs]

Whats up scrubs.

BRO and I are here to kick ass and take names.

FoS: Nacho and Ffery. Nacho for Mislynching me in Mind Reader Mafia. Ffery for knowing I was a scumbutt in NY 165 and still letting me coast to endgame. Have some respect for my scumplay, PLZ!

Jacob Savage is probably the serial killer.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ill catchup after the gym.

<3

-AP

[Angry Frat BROs]

FoS: Nacho and Ffery. Nacho for Mislynching me in Mind Reader Mafia.

I mislynched BRO in a similarly glorious fashion in Xenogears, although mislynching you in Mind Reader was one of my favorite experiences in mafia ever.

Oh hey Nacho.

It's k 'cause you got mislynched there too

[Angry Frat BROs]

(btw GM you can fix your parenthetical. AP/BROseidon hydra, reporting for duty ^_^)

[Angry Frat BROs]

Jacob Savage is probably the serial killer.

10/10 to my hydra partner.

[Angry Frat BROs]

No, it's a joke.

AP and I joke a lot.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Also hi bro/AP. Guilty child sucks to draw, doesn't it?

This hydra is the guilty child hydra :/

[Angry Frat BROs]

Jacob Savage is probably the serial killer

So, why SK and not other scum?

Oh.

Yeah, but I figured that it was some sort of legit accusation.

Did my post sound even remotely serious? a FoS on sangres for rvs reasoning and a joke from last game.

So you understood that it was a joke but took the 'read' seriously anyways? Because you are saying that you got the joke but figured it was a serious accusation. Ok, but you took the JOKE part of it seriously too and decided to follow up on why we are SK-hunting?

UNVOTE: whoever

[Angry Frat BROs]

FoS: Nacho and Ffery. Nacho for Mislynching me in Mind Reader Mafia.

I mislynched BRO in a similarly glorious fashion in Xenogears, although mislynching you in Mind Reader was one of my favorite experiences in mafia ever.

Somehow I knew BRO and I were always meant for each other. Now it all makes sense. We have the same arch-nemesis.

[Angry Frat BROs]

can hydras sign their posts pl0x

This always pings me. Are you really planning on meta'ing hydra heads? And if you cant tell which head is posting anyways, your analysis specific to each head will probably suck.

Spoiler:

THIS IS MY EGOPOST GM ITS OKAY I LOVE YOU AND IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER ILL SEND A PICTURE OF MY KAT FOR YOU TO EDIT INTO HERE

THIS IS MY EGOPOST GM ITS OKAY I LOVE YOU AND IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL A PICTURE OF MY KAT FOR YOU TO EDIT INTO HERE

I LOVE YOU IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL MY KAT FOR YOU TO EDIT INTO HERE

I LOVE YOU IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL MY KAT FOR YOU TO EDIT

I MAKES YOU FEEL MY KAT FOR YOU TO EDIT

I MAKES YOU FEEL MY KAT

I MAKES KAT

IM A SK

VOTE: Cabd / MC Makara

RC could you explain this SK read to me? Why is he an SK and not group scum?

We are relieved to learn that our random vote has landed in an intelligent place!

Interesting use of the word intelligent :S - why was MVP's post noteworthy?

Actually, good question for everyone. SK is found day one. Lynch or leash? Give reasoning, there will be a grading rubric.

Cabd, is this you? Why are you flooding P2 with shitty questions and dumb RC quotes? Leave the shitposting to BRO and I thanks.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Your knowledge of ffery clearly predates AMOL and NY165.

This is officially the NY 167 mafia drinking game.
Rules

1) Take a shot every time Cabd mentions AMOL.
2) Take a shot every time Guyett drunk hammers.
3) Take a shot every time ffery calls me scum but doesnt vote me.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Alright.
This feels townish from Sakura. Minor point, but being open like that is usually a good town indicator.

Dr. Jeykll's 32 feels wrong.
I like MVP pointing out the lack of hard stance in 55.

So I know JS always feels scummy, but this post feels scummy. >.>
You really care to talk about self-voting in lylo over anything else posted in your entry into the thread? And to mention that on rare occasions maybe self-voting isnt bad in lylo? I dont like where the attention is in this post, feels unnatural.

Woah and there comes Sangres with the JS vote. You are in my head.

Oh god, TheIrishPope. In 2.5 friends I waffled on you back and forth forever. I think I got a feel for your scumgame skimming Venmar's zombie apocalypse mafia. Lean town on TIPs early posts.

P-edit: Oh god we are both on and posting.

[Angry Frat BROs]

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

[Angry Frat BROs]

Starts out game supporting idiotic policy lynch (Bro here: everyone who even considered that policy lynch is bad and should feel bad)

Proceeds to provide no game-related content, and then starts trolling about how town they are.

And you are confident that he's town.

#logic

[Angry Frat BROs]

I wouldnt wualify anthing RC has done as ballsy.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Suggesting a policy lynch because someone made a dumb play once that they're probably not going to repeat isn't ballsy; it's lazy and scummy.

And Guyett has the real reason to vote for our slot. #1 logic right there.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Hey Guyett, your image is broken

[Angry Frat BROs]

Bro here:

Don't like JS's combination of lurking+meh content. He's in the mix of people that I'm scumreading, and I think AP feels the same way. We're still touching base and calibrating reads in our QT.

[Angry Frat BROs]

^ lurking + meh content is JS's mantra. Im concerned about where his attention is so far, he is interested in things that really are not interesting or relevant and I don't see any particular emotional reason for it either.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Curiously, the Large Normal is technically allowed up to two non-Normal Roles iirc.

This is correct but if you use them to make a broken role (*glares at peregrine's white mage*) I will hate you forever and kill your cats.

It was not broken, it was beautiful!

That game was balanced around me getting confirmed town White Mages lynched, : P

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ah, the goody two shoes player. This is confirmed Town.

No its not. I can see why you think this looks townie, but its easily fakeable as scum and is really more of a playstyle thing than anything.

I mean, if you don't know us enough to not know who is talking in each post, you don't deserve to know who is talking anyway, nor will it matter enough for you to meta-search or whatever

This feels town from Marangal. Partly just that she had the same gut reaction to the request that I did, but also she feels open here. And the lack of attempting to appease the request is a positive indicator.

Spoiler:

^
Cabd post

^
Mara post

^

Cabd

Mara Post

Does voting them make them stop?

Do you realize im not voting the person that screwed up my plan, but the person saying that town screws everything up?

Your content is extremely reactionary at this point. Like you spend time posting about nothing and don't bother to explain your reads unless pressed. Is this normal townplay for you?

What reaction were you even looking for? The way I understand what happened:
You vote wake88 for *reasons*, presumably a reaction test.
Toomai asked you for reasons for your vote and you ADMIT that it is for reactions (potentially ruining your own "reaction test")
You then get upset at TIP for calling Toomai obvious town.

How did TIP ruin what you were doing?

Pre-edit: It was a Doctor that could target itself. Also its protections lasted two nights instead of the usual 1. So basically she could permanently make herself and the Tracker (ffery) kill immune.

[Angry Frat BROs]

As someone who constantly walks into others' plans and reaction tests and ruins them, it does not. See what I did there, maybe?

Why did you post this?

Also, lynching TIP is pretty antitown when the hydras will know whether he's scum within five more pages.

Sadly I'm actually townreading this post though.

I got the same gut feel for yesiree, lets talk about it. What felt good about him to you?

And who claimed to be able to read TIP well?

P-edit: hullo ffery. Are we finally on the same team this game?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Did I blow your mind with that post?
Also, fix your scumdar. It's not working correctly this game.

Actually, I think there is a good explanation for why their scumdar isn't working this game. Post 62 isn't the towniest reaction I've ever seen.

You and cabd look townie, but damn those spam posts; less of them please.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Why do you want TIP dead so bad?

because to lynch is to love

and I love TIP very much

What about TIP do you "love"

Are you going anywhere with this line of questioning or trying to look busy?

Hey kids, I'm here now. When did this whole thing get six pages already???

This post doesnt sit well.

Toomai can join the leaning town pile for this. Paranoid of being buddied and unafraid to slap a vote on TIP for it. And Toomai already felt towny for the interactions with Sakura.

How is that buddying...

You called Toomai 'confirmed town' for almost nothing. You can't fathom why that is weird to someone? Stop being a dumb.

Ugh can I just townread Cabd so I can ignore his quote strip walls?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Cabd started the game off aggressively; he certainly wasn't trying to just blend in and make friends. Mara mirrored my point about hydra posting and I get where Cabd's attention is this game. Nothing they've done is mega-town, but they are par for the town course to be sure. Feeling pride from his play and edginess that typically aren't from scum.

P-edit: goodmorning gm ^^

[Angry Frat BROs]

P-edit: hullo ffery. Are we finally on the same team this game?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Pretty sure I've never played a game with town-you, so

Having not played with me-town before matters, because?

I wasn't trolling, I was opening a dialogue. You are a strong town player, I want you close regardless. What are your thoughts on Cabd? Also tell Nacho to get his ass in here.

[Angry Frat BROs]

It matters because I have a hell of a scum-AP model, and although not fitting a one-sided model well is nice, and actually works sometimes, it's a shaky starting place.

By this am I to understand that you feel town on me (and BRO?) so far because Im not living up to my scum meta?

Nacho is posting on the site, so hes around.

I dont think I've got to Cabd's analysis on Yesiree yet?, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Uh, your scumvibe on me in goonies was purely based on me aggressively shoving a slot you knew to be town (yours). So if I ha called you scum and voted you here, that would be scummy on me? And in NY 165 I was just kind of loud scum cause I figured I could get a way with it. Not sure where Im going with this tbh, I'm in this game. You seem less paranoid about me than you should. Like you are TELLING me that you are, but Im not feeling the paranoia. Eh.

Cabd was town in a game I modded offsite. Other than that, no I havent played with him as town.

Also while I have you hear, quick thoughts for me on:

Dr. Jekyll, Sakura, TIP, RC?

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm in this game.

Err I'm town in this game as well as simply being in it >.>

[Angry Frat BROs]

Cabd was town in a game I modded offsite.

And I remember thinking he was a strong town player. The scumteam did as well and actually killed him on N1 even though it sorta doomed a member of theirs because of Cabd's flip.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You also went after the player that I was most strongly townreading on day 1 of that game, and that was two reads I couldn't believe you wouldn't get right.

Alright, then lets talk about reads this game and compare. I am wrong sometimes although not very often. ; )

Ugh Nacho. He can't read me for shit. Tunneled the shit out of me all game we were in together and was like "lol mastin2, how can you have such a silly townread on AP, that is so weird". Mastin was scum. GG no re.

Spoiler:

now that the ugly work is done we can lynch scum

Vote: AngryPidgeon

the case on this kid is as hard as a diamond in an ice storm
so lynch him now

also, i might be a little lurky soon
i am going to learn how to round dance (rumba, quickstep, waltz) so when i'm back i'm probably just going to sleep the day away
don't use my absence as an excuse to not lynch this clown

So from a logical perspective...I just don't see why lynching AP over qwints is ever going to be a good plan.

I did. Meaning that there's a very special reason why I am focusing on AP over qwints. It means that I fucking know that AP is scum and qwints amounts to what is essentially a backup suspicion. Yes AP town is more valuable, but that's not what we care about right now. I have LS as 100% town, I have Mala as pretty fucking town, I have Jal as pretty fucking town, I have GreyICE as pretty fucking town, I have penguin as pretty fucking town, I have Loran as pretty fucking town... The only powerful player I have as scum is ANGRYPIDGEON and it's a strong fucking read. Right now, the name of the game is neutralizing threats, and the biggest threat to the town is the mafia psychic that you have a

completely irrational townread on.

4.

AngryPidgeon

_{rep. Adam-12 D2}

-

Test Subject

- Lynched Day Two

Re Cabd: I need more time to be sure. He feels town right now, but certainly not someone I would invite to a townblock kind of town. His scumplay in 165 felt a little .. uninspired? I don't know, I was way focused on shoving my own agenda that game and lightly bussing him on the side. I felt like he was obvious scum that game, but a lot of it was because of his claim and the BS flip. The RB claim was obviously from scum the instant BS flipped, so eh. /waffles.

What do you associate with Jekyll's scum game? I see its a hydra, havent cared to learn their identity. I see a lot of weak opinions and posts that look nervous from that slot. I didn't like their interactions with MVP at all.

Errr, ok. Not sure what to make of the cryptic bit about Sakura. I felt her narrative on the her/toomai/tip interactions was a bit disjoint in a weird way. And she herself admitted to her reaction test being a .... reaction test then went on to berate TIP?? for derailing a stupid question? Her honing on on TIP calling someone "conftown" as scummy feels a bit easy to me. I can see town having issue with it, but she just instantly scumread him for it and seems to oscillate between the reason for her TIP scumread being that and him derailing her line of questioning (which she herself pretty much did?). So not liking her at the point Im at.

TIP seems townish to me, but I'll admit that read is mostly gut at this point in that he feels like he didn in 2.5 friends and Im not seeing the pointed, direct TIP that was scum in Venny's game.

RC is scum independent of alignment

[Angry Frat BROs]

The RB claim was obviously from scum the instant BS flipped, so eh. /waffles.

Seriously, wth. You lynched STUBBSKVM over the Mafia Roleblocker. I was even helping throw him under the bud for you

[Angry Frat BROs]

^Speaking of Mafia aligned Roleblockers. Cabd are you a mafia aligned roleblocker this game?

Also, what is your read on Sangres?

[Angry Frat BROs]

I like AFB's overall presence so far.

caledfwitch needs to do something.

There's a lot of people here who need to so something.

Especially the scum. Other than RC, none of the posters more prolific than the mod have pinged.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Fuck you for that posting restriction. Of yellow fever. Or the black plague. Or gang-greeeeeeeeen.

[Angry Frat BROs]

My fault for being the only sane man in that day one derptown.

I can't remember where you stood on the D1 lynch, but I remember the town frothing to mislynch that dave88? guy. I was reading along and shaking my head at how obvtown he was, he was just a lurkaderp.

DarthPika has the highest pretention/skill ration I have ever seen in mafia. He was shoving that one iirc. I could be wrong, about that tidbit but still.

Who are you looking at other than Yesiree? Haven't quite caught up to your case therefore yet.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not scuuuuum gawd
Guyett, yessiree, caled, do you wanna post content or...?
MVP why focus on Sangres?
Pidgeon stop being so cocky and post some reads will you?

AP's been posting content and interacting and shit.

I'm the one who's being cocky ^_^

It's hard to get scumreads when scum aren't posting :/

[Angry Frat BROs]

10 people have fewer posts than the mod.

Hey scum, stop lurking and post!

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ok I've done a quick read of Lucid dreamers, its my only game with Caled which I remember and she was scum in it.
She lurked pretty hard through that game too

VOTE: Caled

And you didn't compare this to a town game because...

[Angry Frat BROs]

11. Angry Frat BROs - null with a light town lean. I don't trust my ability to read AP just yet but their play has been quite jokey which I'd see coming from town. Early posts were good but later posts are kinda fluffy and theres discussion about game speculation from other games.

What am I, chopped liver?

(Hint, this is BRO)

[Angry Frat BROs]

14. RadiantCowbells - town. I don't think I've played with RC before. However he seems to be just taking the piss... I could see him as town just fucking around but I couldn't see scum doing that.

Calls out other people for posting full.

Calls RC's fluff town.

#logic.

[Angry Frat BROs]

What if I ended up being vigged and flipped a confirmable town role, such as Mason or Innocent Child or Beloved, who was trying to bait reactions since looking scummy isn't an object for someone who isn't going to end up being lynched anyway?

Then you're playing a shit game.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Can we continue to skewer RadiantCowbells to play properly instead of musing about previous games?

Or we can just lynch it, because.

Well, y'know. Scum.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Scum: Guyett.
Town: RC, AFB.

Pretty small ammount of reads but you know me and my thing with getting decent reads early on during large games.

1) How are you townreading RC.

2) If you're townreading both me/AP and RC, why aren't you trying to get me/AP off RC?

[Angry Frat BROs]

I think Guyett reading me off one game doesn't work that well. Just so you guys know, Lucid Dreamers is my only scum game so far and my scumbuddy basically carried me through the whole thing.

I don't think I have an established play style yet, but just because I haven't posted a lot doesn't necessarily mean a scum read. IRL man.

Do you have anything useful to say?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Angryfratbros deserves rope. Dude replaced into a slot that bailed out very early in the game. Townies don't tend to bail that early. They see what shakes out, read, and dive back in as time allows. Scum however has a team counting on them, working a strategy, and there's more pressure on a scum slot to be involved/present.

Dudes entry to the game was straight inside joke buddying. "Hey so and so. Don't mislynch my like last game. Tee-hee. Herp Derp." Not cool. Then a bunch more bs spam, useless fluff. Somewhere in the middle of it, another head jumped in and added to the wtfery.

I saw some town cheer leading "Scummers, get in here and post." which loosely translates to "I'm a posting machine, so obviously not scum. The scum just aren't posting."

Plus, there was the whole "Gym fist, then knowledge." Everybody knows you can't skip tanning and laundry and go straight to schooling bitches. GTL, then lynching scum. Get your mind right first. Only gready grimy scum would suggest skipping the laundromat.

There's more, but I'm mobile only for a bit and it's tough to quote and do real work.

1) Do you have any empirical evidence backing that claim, because it looks like a load of bullshit.

2) Sorry not sorry that we're excited to play with a bunch of players that we like.

3) You missed the part where I said that I'm townreading all the active players other than RC (active being players with more posts than the mod at that time).

[Angry Frat BROs]

1) Do you have any empirical evidence backing that claim, because it looks like a load of bullshit.

2) Sorry not sorry that we're excited to play with a bunch of players that we like.

3) You missed the part where I said that I'm townreading all the active players other than RC (active being players with more posts than the mod at that time).

1) 50% of the time, it works every time. If you make calls in mafia strictly on empirical evidence, hot tears of shame should stream forth from thy face.

2) There's a difference between being excited to play with people you like and stroking them/your history to position yourself. Examples:
A) Hey guys, wicked pumped to be here. Hi5! Let's wreck some scum. (This says, let's play mafia and have fun)
B) Hey guys, happy to be here! Don't screw up like last time and misread me. (This is preempetive positioning. You're cautioning them to be slow and deliberate with their reads on you, and broadcasting to the player base that those players haven't read you well in the past.)
Your "excitement" reeks of example B and its a highly suspect maneuver in my opinion. Its nuance, but there it is.

3) I don't see the relevance of your point 3 as a defense or rebuttal to anything I said. I might need a better explanation, or just more coffee.

1) If you're going to make an empirically-driven argument ("people who replace out on day 1 are usually scum"), you'd better have empirical evidence to back that up. You don't, because it's a load of bullshit.

2) The only thing you could categorize in that B category is our trolling with Nacho, and I doubt Nacho is going to hold back if he scumreads us

3) You called my comments to the lurkers "town cheerleading," when I made it plenty clear that I was townreading the vast majority of the active players. There are very few players (read: one) that I feel comfortable reading after only a few posts. That you're trying to spin that as "town cheerleading" is bad and you should feel bad.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Nope because Cabd. I'll probably do some sort of gambit somewhere midgame and try to figure it out.

Are you assuming both of you will be around then still? What is your experience with Cabd that prompts this sentiment towards him?

Once again, laying out your sneaky attempts to get reads on people by announcing them kinda beats the purpose.

TIP still not having the most postcount

Is this really your reasoning for voting TIP? There are a handful of compulsive posters in this game and I've never known TIP to be a top-poster consistently.

@Mod: We voted RadiantCowbells in post 469, but in case you require unvotes here you go

This is a good vote - but it doesn't quite sitwell. Feels like a bus.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I was hoping that I would be able to tunnel the hell out of you early and get you to break, respond, something, but the response that I get is being ignored? It doesn't feel too great to me

As in its scummy on him for ignoring you or are you just being a troll?

This is correct but if you use them to make a broken role (*glares at peregrine's white mage*) I will hate you forever and kill your cats.

But you are town, so you DO want town White Mages in this game..right...RIGHT??

His scumgame shows a decent amount of conviction as well, don't you think?

Cabd said (or didnt respond when MVP suggested?) that he has no scum-yesiree experience.

I'm starting to read Mara as town, so we might be able to ignore the hell out of you and live life that way.

Heh, I was starting to feel good on Cabd. Im terrible at reading Mara, but Cabd feels a bit carefree/genuine in this game. Not seeing the same direct, forceful Crabd from NY 165.

What I like least about JS is my push on him which got translated to him ignoring the hell out of me; when I mislynch him in Harry Potter as scum, he at least made an effort to engage and gave out batshit crazy scumteam ideas, which at least showed that he was thinking and attempting to figure things out. In this game, he just started looking elsewhere.

He is usually responsive to pressure although I think that is true of him as both alignments. Either way, I think hes worth pressuring right now.

She'll be back today and I found it suspicious that she decided to put V/La up pretty much right after getting a few votes against her... kinda similar to someone else in the Marvel vs DC game

Is this a serious point? Just noticed how terrible this is.

I usually can read people a hell of a lot better after I mislynch the fuck out of them.

Well Im waiting cute boy, lets hear about me then.

like are you actually fucking agreeing or disagreeing on something?

Lol? It means you are going to disagree but stop arguing about it forever to no end. Justify your TIP vote please. TIP appears to be playing to a town wincon.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Dude replaced into a slot that bailed out very early in the game. Townies don't tend to bail that early.

This is a god-awful point; replacing is not a tell and you are wrong. Leaning towards thinking this is a townie sort of wrong, but I have seen scum shove easy cases like this.

Dudes entry to the game was straight inside joke buddying. "Hey so and so. Don't mislynch my like last game. Tee-hee. Herp Derp." Not cool. Then a bunch more bs spam, useless fluff. Somewhere in the middle of it, another head jumped in and added to the wtfery.

I have provided content in my posts that you are ignoring willfully or otherwise. How about commenting on that instead of taking my joke entry post seriously.

Plus, there was the whole "Gym fist, then knowledge." Everybody knows you can't skip tanning and laundry and go straight to schooling bitches. GTL, then lynching scum. Get your mind right first. Only gready grimy scum would suggest skipping the laundromat.

Uhhhhh. I replaced in and didnt intend to read the game thread immediately. Once again, are we really void of content or are you just pretending we are?

what are reads never heard of them

that's null stop handing out towncred like toilet paper

I get a gut townfeel from this. Cabd can we compromise somewhere else atm?

I don't trust my ability to read AP just yet

Can you elaborate on his for ol' Big Bird?

[Angry Frat BROs]

This would be true if they knew what i was planning on doing and/or when.

You ar declaring intent to "gambit" on Cabd. What am I missing here? You just ruined any element of surprise you had in trying to get a genuine reaction from him down the road since he will just assume you are fakeclaiming/gambiting. I dont get it. And if you have some sort of investigative role you intend to use on him, you are blowing credit by suggesting any result on him is just a test. So I really don't get why you thought to post this. Its like you are trying to show that you are scumhunting without actually doing it.

P-edit:

[Angry Frat BROs]

8. Guyett (Guyett has yet to drop his hidden signature town tell, but he hasnt done anything overly scummy either. Mara has him down as gut-scum. )

I think Im starting to see Guyett-scum here. He definitely feels less proactive and more responsive which is scummy and I know hes capable of being aggressive town. Also his attempts at banter come off feeling weird to me.

11. Angry Frat BROs (I will likely waffle on this forever, i've been wrong about bro 2/2 times so far)

We're town, you'll come around. You seem really able to rad me from what we have talked about in the past, so read me and not BRO if thats what it takes.

9. likeabauss (his hatred of the buddy-style sorting is null to me, i've gotten complaints about it from both alignments in the past. Nothing else much of note in the ISO)

His points are terrible, but in a sort of townie way. He seems genuinely invested in finding and lynching scum at any rate.

4. sangres (I'll probably flip flop this at least twice this game minimum, but this seems like townffery from what data I do have on her (and from being inside her head b/c morph))

Getting a read on Sangres is p much my top priority atm, so Id appreciate if you could back this up for me.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Yes, well, that feels like a contrived reason to scumread me, so there. Y'all are trying pretty hard to do so while ignoring the players who are actually good at reading me.

I've mentioned several other posts of yours that I didn't like.

@Guyett: Oh dear. Im right about you arent I.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Anyone not voting him: why the fuck not?

Need a chance to synch up with BRO.

[Angry Frat BROs]

RadiantCowbells [L-7] - Angry Frat BROs, Doctor Jekyll

[Angry Frat BROs]

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

So you're misreading someone you've played with for 10 years

Retardedness or scum?

Wow, you cant be serious. Anybody replacing out on D1 is scum? How bad at this game are you?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Because he's lazy, probably.

And your read on Guyett is?

Too soon to be certain, but Rank is most likely town.

greetings, strange peoples.

Greetings scum.

Yet a replaceout makes him instantly flop over to the probable scumpile?

Example, if the people that read you 100% say on D1 that you are town, scum needs to slay you. Otherwise, you're as good as conftown.

Not really. Most people don't care how good you claim to be able to read an individual. Reckoner in the Balto Invitational game did this about his BF (gave him a 100% townread that was right), flpped town and the slot he was 100% town on still got lynched. And a lot of people who claim to be good at this are just full of themselves.

^
That was quick

VOTE: sakura hana

sorry my last vote was a typo

Hey Orci ^^. Nice to see you are already par for the town course this game.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Peregrine's ISO is suspiciously void of his usual town indicators, but hes lurkaderping. Want to look there when he gets back around to posting though.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Doctor Jekyll - This looks like town Ceph to me.

What about his posting is reminiscent of "town Ceph"? I really don't like the slot, feels nervous and a lot of their stances are kinda lackluster. Granted, its early game, but it still reads a bit superficial.

I think AP trying to sort me is a good sign, though I feel pretty cautious. In prior scum games, he's either townread me (until a scum read suited his purposes) or immediately gone for the throat on my slot (after I replaced out, but still that was MY slot and I was srsly town).

What the fuck is this post. So Im not living up to either extreme of my prior interactions with you ...and you are providing that as your reason for "feel[ing] pretty cautious" about us?

I havent tried to crunch a reads list out, but yours is resonating pretty strongly with where Im at in my head (Jekyll is the only one I disagree with more than a little)

[Angry Frat BROs]

Feeling pretty cautious is independent of your not hitting either extreme. I think I said earlier that I'm counting on nacho to keep me reality-based on my Cabd read. You're pretty much in the same category.

Eh I can buy this. I know in both our other games you thought I was scummy but didn't know what to do about me.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Guyett

[Angry Frat BROs]

Dats L - 2 btw.

[Angry Frat BROs]

L-2....

Remind me why you are self-voting?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ffery, are you intentionally blind to this Guyett wagon or what?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ffery, are you intentionally blind to this Guyett wagon or what?

What do you think is the scum-profit in continuing to self-vote at L-2?

Well you were listing him as scum while he was still self voting just last page...

[Angry Frat BROs]

ANd I put myself to L - 1 before as scum just to stage a meltdown, so I dont see anything remotely townie about selfvoting.

[Angry Frat BROs]

FoS: Sangres. You are wayyyy too deflective about taking stances on anything this game. You keep shrugging everything onto Nacho and asserting hes not here. Well he isn't here. So step up to the plate and pinch-hit, ffery.

Guyett self-voting is not town motivated and you are dumb to instantly give him a pass for it.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Is ffery just unsure about bussing you or something? Its unreal. You are scum. You get one more vote. You post a meaningless post. You are town.

Actually nm, that is town-ffery to a T thinking back. Holy crap though, get it together.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I've never seen ffery in a hydra but her waffling on people who are probably scum backandforth forever is exactly what she did to me in both games we played ( I was S she was T)

[Angry Frat BROs]

She was literally just listing you sa one of her top 3 scumreads though. This sudden flop is totally bizarre.

[Angry Frat BROs]

ecause my read is extremely influenced.

Explain.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Lynching Guyett is justice. Hes still scum, don't be fooled. Just keep calm and lynch scum.

Sangres can be sorted tomorrow. They are #1 investigate target actually.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Glad to know you've resolved to being loud and useless this game Orci.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Pedit: suck something.

I often do. Speaking of sucking, a case wont make your vote suck less.

[Angry Frat BROs]

AFB are voting Guyett because... literally no apparent reason? They've mentioned him a couple times but not in a 'this is my top scumread' way.

So, what gives, guys? I don't understand why this wagon exists, and he doesn't seem particularly worse to me than, say, JacobSavage.

Its possible I forgot to trasnlate my thoughts into a post.

He is doing things I tend to do as scum. His selfvote was not encourging and him bothering to point out he was at L - 2 w/o unvoting is just scum trying not to look like they are flailing. Him "trawling for reactions" it and ending up on ffery shows he was just lookingfor a "valid" excuse to move his vote. His attempts at scumhunting are uninspired and his rage reads fake to me.

His earlier posts to me were cutesy in a scum way, sort of pointed but not really doing anything. Trying to blend in, no real attempts to find scum (except highly contrived and immediate ffery case out of the blue, making them a plausible buddy).

In particular, him pointing out we have no completed games together rang alarm bells. I attempt to discredit meta reads on me when Im scum like that. He is totally not considering the possibility that I have read games of his and instead tries to handwave my suspicion away without following up on it or figuring out if it has a base to it? Thats scum.

[Angry Frat BROs]

So, what gives, guys? I don't understand why this wagon exists, and he doesn't seem particularly worse to me than, say, JacobSavage.

Im sure JS is a strong scumread of yours. Lets hear why hes better than lynching Guyett.

Cause this counterwagon on JS is looking awfully suspicious to me after Guyett offers up some ez fakeable AtE.

[Angry Frat BROs]

could someone explain the jacob case?
Coz I've lynched him for being a useless lurksack and he flipped town and I was sad

And this is a really weak stance. Being uncertain of his CW but fishing for a good case to sheep?

If he were really skeptical of JS being a good lynch hed be more assertive about it.

[Angry Frat BROs]

now get fucked AP

Did last night, thanks.

[Angry Frat BROs]

AFB are voting Guyett because... literally no apparent reason? They've mentioned him a couple times but not in a 'this is my top scumread' way.

So, what gives, guys? I don't understand why this wagon exists, and he doesn't seem particularly worse to me than, say, JacobSavage.

Its possible I forgot to trasnlate my thoughts into a post.

He is doing things I tend to do as scum. His selfvote was not encourging and him bothering to point out he was at L - 2 w/o unvoting is just scum trying not to look like they are flailing. Him "trawling for reactions" it and ending up on ffery shows he was just lookingfor a "valid" excuse to move his vote. His attempts at scumhunting are uninspired and his rage reads fake to me.

His ISO screams discouraged town

His earlier posts to me were cutesy in a scum way, sort of pointed but not really doing anything. Trying to blend in, no real attempts to find scum (except highly contrived and immediate ffery case out of the blue, making them a plausible buddy).

I dont' see him trying to blend in. I see him with posts like "I haven't been able to get into this game".

In particular, him pointing out we have no completed games together rang alarm bells. I attempt to discredit meta reads on me when Im scum like that. He is totally not considering the possibility that I have read games of his and instead tries to handwave my suspicion away without following up on it or figuring out if it has a base to it? Thats scum.

MAYYYYYBE.

In what way does it scream discouraged town. His one AtE post about always being lynched? Something people do as scum ALL THE TIME??

Once again, his singular post using his playstyle as an excuse for being wagoned + a dash of AtF. Scum upset at being caught for the wrong reasons. His blend in posts that I mentioned are not that one post. Im glad you bothered to read more than 1 post of his before making this one.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You seriously calling Guyett scum because of AtE?

I would like to take you back to Mother bangers, Pigey.

No, Im astonished that Orcinus thinks it is from town.

[Angry Frat BROs]

He's gay lol. They use more protection than us normals.

They use more protection than us normals.

than us normals.

us normals.

p-edit: You aren't that dense Cabd.

[Angry Frat BROs]

He is not a strong scumread of mine, actually, but I don't have any strong scumreads yet. I do think ffery's argument is a good one- the fact that JS has been ignoring her is scummy. All I have at present is light scumreads on Guyett (yes, really), JS, and Sakura, though I'd still be voting RC if I thought it would get me anywhere.

I'm not joining the counterwagon because of the ATE, which was indeed pretty fakable.

I really dont get this. You dont have any reason for thinking JS over Guyett (except you liked ffery's point, ok). Guyett is still plausible scum, why are you analyzing his wagon in itty bitty pieces then and trying to throw doubt on it?

Cabd you are seriously townreading htis?

[Angry Frat BROs]

He's gay lol. They use more protection than us normals.

They use more protection than us normals.

than us normals.

us normals.

p-edit: You aren't that dense Cabd.

That wasn't cabd.

Oh lol. Hi Mara. What is your Guyett and Jekyll reaqds, stat.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not 'trying' to throw doubt anywhere. I'm just stating how I feel, and how I feel is 'this is too easy and too fast'.

Yet he is one of your 3 mentioned scummy picks and you are cw'ing JS shamelessly and for no stated reason other than ffery said so.

And you absolutely did get motivated to pick apart every single vote on his wagon and point out how unbased you felt they were. If you are leaning scummy on Guyett, why do that?

[Angry Frat BROs]

This is it guys. This is the game where I finally go insane.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I hope that is a real dayvig although I know it isnt.

[Angry Frat BROs]

@Mod BRO head is V/LA through Saturday

[Angry Frat BROs]

BRO head doing some quick catchup:

Did anybody notice FratBoys jump in to defend Ranks replacement when I started in on it? Why not let me flame and dig? Why defend a barely contributing slot that is just getting into the mix from another slot that hasn't done much? Oh, scum buddies. That's why. Discredit the Bauss, try to save a teammate. Prevent discussion. Redirect attention. Oh look, shiny Guyett! Hes ready to rollover, PUSH.

So it’s scummy for us to point out that you’re using the same shitty logic on Orc as you’re using on us? The fuck are you smoking.

Mr. Bauss, you haven't really given an initial reason for scumreading AFB IIRC. You just started from that assumption and are now painting them as scum. Orci was never in trouble here though, so I find your last statement to be an exaggeration.

Considering that my experiment seems to have failed, I'm considering dropping the act and changing accounts.

Remember why I started bussing you in NY165, because you were doing this as scum to EddieFenix?

Does this read the same way as your push onto Eddie, because it is for me.

Policy lynch? Naw
That's only for stupid players (RC)
This is for a bad player (Guyett)

…Same thing.

because I read 678 and 795 in order

Sheeping shitty logic. #1 player, right here.

Sorry been busy recently.

I don't think I can get behind this guyett lynch because 1. I don't seen it 2. He doesn't seem like a bad player in my expereience.


Expect more when I get home tonight.

And that catchup is where?

Pistol Pete Maravich? I hope.

FWIW, this read is a bit bullshit and I feel bad for it, but I can't ignore it. That said, here's the deal with the Rank read:

As a player, Rank doesn't like being scum. But he loves being town. His scum game isn't that good, and it's less exciting for him. But, the best part of the game for Rank as town? D1. He loves it. I love it. We thrive on it. D1 reads and lynching is what separates the men from the boys in our opinions/world. We have probably hundreds of hours bullshitting and talking about D1 reads, psychology, sociology, profiles, maneuvers, etc etc. It's LITERALLY the highlight of the game for us as players. And the source of much bragging or shit talking in post game chats.

So, Rank's early play seemed townish to me. There wasn't much to go on, but it seemed typical. He stays light until stuff develops (much like I do), dropping the occasional potshot or poking the bear when he sees a chance. But him replacing out? 100% scum move. As town, he'd have lingered, read, contributed when he could and stuck around through D1 at least. Bought some time. As scum? He wouldn't want to gimp his team, he'd bail quickly and early to give them the best chance at victory. Which he did here. Town play doesn't require as much activity as scum play to be successful. You read, you think, you post, and come and go as you can. Example: Rank just recently detail read a 100 page D1 of a game in under a 24 hour period and started slinging reads and opinions instantly. Why? How? It was D1. SuperBowl Sunday. Bases loaded, 2 outs, full count, down by 3 in the bottom of the 9th.

Rank's slot is scum. But, I picked up on the FratBoys scum slot before Rank's, hence why my vote is on him and why I want to lynch FratBoys first then Rank's slot second. Some details on my FratBoys read coming up...

I’ll believe you if you link me every game Rank has ever replaced out of and they are vast majority scumgames. If you’re going to push a numbers-driven tell, have numbers to back it up.

Your theory about this slot advocates a(n)

( ) insightful

(X) interesting

( ) uncommon ( ) crazy

approach to reading it. Your method will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which vary from player to player)

( ) Scum can use it as a blank check to hide.

(X) It is just as likely to get false positives.
(X) It does not account for other potential reasons to replace out
(X) Your solution speculates as to motives not apparent to everyone
(X) Your theory requires us to treat you as confirmed town
(X) My read disagrees with the slot being "obvscum"
(X) WIFOM says the player would have known you'd do this if it was scum
(X) Anyone could fake the result they want since it's only your word

Specifically, your plan fails to account for

( ) Lack of confirmed townies
( ) Timezones
( ) The claim from that slot
( ) Ease of planning a response in advance assuming scum daychat
( ) Asshats
( ) Nobody trusts you
( ) Unpopularity of new gambits

(X) The existence of already successful scumhunting tactics

( ) Susceptibility of newbtown to fall for it as well
( ) Willingness of players to give you a chance
( ) People who hate your play
( ) Scum safeclaims given by mod

and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

(X) It could just as easily be WIFOM
(X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
been shown reliable

( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable
( ) Flavor Gambits suck

(X) Why should we have to trust you and your methods?

( ) Incompatibility with the current player base
( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
( ) Revealing info does nothing but assist scum
( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough

Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

(X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it's a viable tell.

( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
house down!

Still makes me laugh ^_^

See line 1. He's challenging the basis of the argument, the means if you will, not the end. His phrasing and word choice is not saying "I'm town, you're retarded" it's saying, "Your argument is retarded/baseless, therefore I'm town." This is a window into what's going on inside his brain. Proof or GTFO is a common response from scum when called out. As if anybody ever really PROVES that somebody is scum on D1, without night info, or hard line evidence. But the psychology that manifest from a perspective of town or scum in this situation it is dramatically different. That word choice was confirmation for me that he is scum. After the clues I picked up on previously that made me suspect him. I've pegged other players on this site with methods like this before.

So me saying, “I’m town, you’re retarded” is going to be more effective in revealing to you that I’m town than breaking down why you’re logic is bad…

This is another window inside his brain. He's openly insinuating/stating that the scum aren't posting, as he's only got 1 scumread from the active player base. But this is two fold bad:
1) It's easier to setup a lynch on the less active, less vocal players. Derp Derp. Scum.
2) He's directly and indirectly demonstrating/validating/supporting a behavior that he's using to mask his scummy taint. He's not afraid to post a lot, be vocal. He's behaving that way. And he's also stating that the scum in this game are NOT posting a lot and being vocal. It's a complimentary maneuver. (this is the psychobabble)

This is a good theory and all, except:

1) I’m town, so it’s not setting up mislynches.
2) I’ve never said that activity is alignment-indicative. What I’ve said is that I’m townreading almost all of the active players in this game. That you’re trying to spin that into the first is a blatant strawman.

I'm not a fan of how quickly the votes for Guyett built up. Too many, too quickly. And some of the people voting for him aren't all that town-y to me. I didn't like Guyett's self-vote, but it could just be irritated/panicked town.

RC has decided to go lurky for a few days, and waited for suspicion to be drawn to other people.

I'm liking orincus as town right now.

Hermy will post a nice and detailed reads list whenever she motivates herself to go check this website on her computer, as she does not have the willpower to do so on her iPod.

I'm not a fan of JS's ISO, and I'm townreading near enough the entire wagon.

VOTE: JS

These are a lot of great positions, but do you have reasons for any of them?

Oh boy, I finally got one townread I am reasonably confident in! I was actually thinking about drawing up a reads list before post 842 happened with likeabauss on top of it, mostly due to my overall lack of conviction this game, but damn that moonlogic (there's a better word for this I know) is so town. And this is not the same as towndrugs, because his reasons are not ludicrous. town, town, town, town, town.

I want to talk about this :/

So let's go with your logic:

1-Replacing out day one is a scumtell.
2-Rank enjoys day ones.
3-Rank replaced out day one.
4-Rank's slot is scum.

So since the actual data totally disproves (1) why should 2-4 still be valid? Do you have some evidence of this you can cite?

:/

You’ve conflated his two cases.

Still like Guyett for scum. Also don’t like RC trying to lurk out the pressure. JS is my third scumspect right now, but that’s a fair bit weaker. Want to flesh out with Ceph why he’s townreading Bauss because I’m seeing parallels between what he’s doing here and what Ceph did in NY165.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I don't get that people here will generally accept Mara or Nachos read on TIP without question, but I throw down on Rank and its a great big production

Here’s the difference: I’ll ask Mara or Nacho why they’ve scumread TIP, and they’ll give me an answer about his gameplay based on experience. I’ll read that case, decide whether it makes sense, and then vote accordingly if I agree.

You build cases that are shit, don’t substantiate your points, try to twist narratives to fit your agenda, and then expect people to blindly sheep it.

It’s shitty and highly scum-motivated.

I liked that he had a convoluted argument that, while less than stellar, had an internal logic to it. He has an over-the-top assurance that reminds me of Scumrir (only moreso), and when most players sound like Scumrir I find they're usually town. I really like abrasiveness, and he's preaching a level of certainty here that I don't see coming from scum (with possible exceptions for really prolific players, but I've never heard of him). And I'm also a fan of crazy-ass logic when it isn't completely stupid (like, he is saying things about words you actually wrote and I can imagine someone thinking as he does).

Pertaining to your first point: the reason I’m scumreading him right now is that his play reminds me of how you dealt with BulbaFenix on D2 in NY165. He’s twisting every word I say to try to build a case about me being scum: when I said that I was townreading all the active players except RC, he twisted it into me saying that activity is a towntell. When I defended Orc against the same shitty logic he used against me about replacements, he came in and said it was me defending a scumbuddy, instead of, I don’t know, a townie defending someone from the same shit logic he used against that townie.

the wake slot is scum

i dunno why you're scum though, ask my brain maybe

There’s no way this is town. Building a shit case based on strawmans and shitty numbers that one fails to substantiate is one thing, but agreeing with that case is worse.

5. JacobSavage maybe scum given meta
7. caledfwitch have not looked at yet
8. Guyett* increasingly scum given he was run up to l-2, and has been lurking ever since wagon defused
12. Hermy have not looked at yet
13. PeregrineV i remember PV lurking as town but I'd have to hceck
14. RadiantCowbells policy bait
15. Toomai picks on low-hanging fruit, thinking scum

JS is reminding me on NY165. Need to reread Jobpick and read some other towngames for a sense of meta.
Guyett’s doing that thing that I did in NY 165 where I lurked until the pressure on me was gone.
P5 lurks as town. Not sure about his scumgame.

In this scenario, I'm highly confident in my read,

I've laid out why,

and that should be

sufficient

to get the slot lynched, vig'd, investigated, RB'd, etc.

You don’t seem to understand what the words “why” or “sufficient” mean.

Orc/Sakura makes Orc look town, but is null on Sakura.

Holy fucking shit Bauss you’re going to make me have a fucking aneurysm. NO. I’M NOT SCUM. YOU’RE A FUCKING RETARD WHO’S TOO FAR UP HIS OWN FUCKING ASS TO SEE THAT YOU’RE SPEWING A LOAD OF HORSESHIT.

OR YOU’RE SCUM PUSHING FOR A MISLYNCH. FUCK OFF ASSHOLE.

Although I bet one of your suspects is probably right, this post is full of confirmation bias and things that are not really happening. I have underlined a number of examples of this.

Also, I almost want you to produce the italicized now because it's beginning to sound like this is baseless. And your failure to agree with my assumption tells me it was not a good assumption.

I still think you're town but you really need to ease off on the death tunnel.

HOLY SHIT. THANK YOU. I’m glad this game isn’t full of fucking retards.

Also, you think way too strongly that everything everyone does is a reaction to do, such as that orcinus "cautionusly asking for a reads list" is a direct response to your assertion that we should be careful with them this game. Even if he's scum he probably isn't that worried about one line that one person said. You are not the end all be all god of scumhunting.

Like you did with BulbaFenix. See what I’m gunning at here…

I recently finished a game with wake

he was town; he was in the process of moving and was working like 10 hour shifts, but despite the fact that he was busy as hell, he did not ask to be replaced out of that game. he squeezed time to contribute and his posts were logical in general.

in this game, he had been acting the polar opposite in this game, illogical, diffident, minimal contribution. he has partners, he's unsure on the approach to contribute, he's scum

Ignores that he replaced-out cross-site.

I like yessire's thoughts on wake. From what I've seen of him this replace out does seem totally not himself.

1) Any thoughts on what AP/I have posted given that you’ve just finished a game where we were both scum.
2) It’s still scummy to agree with flawed logic.

Wake replaced out of a lot of games so I wouldn't use that as an admission of guilt on that slot

the mere act of replacing out is not indicative of his alignment, certain traits have to be observed along with this occurrence

and in this case, these traits have been observed as explained above

You also don’t seem to understand what a good argument entails.

No way both bauss/yessiree are town. There’s no way we have two townies who are so monumentally moronic.

Holy fucking shit we’re dealing with so much stupid here. We should expect like 4-5 scum here, right?

OH HEY LOOK I HAVEN’T READ AN RC POST IN LIKE 10 PAGES.

HEY FUCKER, STOP LURKING AFTER I CALL YOU OUT FOR BEING SCUM AND GET BACK HERE SO I CAN LYNCH YOUR SCUMMY ASS.

Bauss/yessiree/JS/Guyett/RC<–Scum’s there’s your scumreads.

VOTE: JS since apparently you fuckers are okay with letting Guyett lurk out his wagon.

[Angry Frat BROs]

My cases aren't shit, they're just different. I play differently than most people on this board and so it may seem foreign to some of you. But I've had some pretty significant success here with my "shit cases." Fuck the pretentiousness of players here that put down somebody else's play. Seriously. Call it moonlogic, call it shit, I don't care. It works for me and its more fun than just rereading old games and saying "Meta, meta, meta."

If anybody wants to lynch scum today, I found two: FratBoys and Orcinus. One on my shit reads and the other on meta of a player that I know too well. I'm out for a bit.

No.

Fuck no.

You don't get to play the "I'm a special snowflake card."

Do you know why?

BECAUSE YOU AREN'T FUCKING SPECIAL.

YOUR CASES AREN'T SPECIAL. THEY'RE SHIT.

STARTING OFF WITH SOMETHING THAT'S OUTRIGHT FALSE IS SHIT.

TRYING TO SPIN EVERY FUCKING WORD I SAY AS SCUM-MOTIVATED IS BLATANT NARRATIVE MANIPULATION. YOU'LL GO TO INFINITE LENGTHS TO MISREP EVERY WORD I POST TO CALL IT SCUMMY. I COULD SAY "THERE ARE FISH IN THE OCEAN," AND YOU'D TALK ABOUT HOW IT PROVES THAT I'M SCUM.

THAT'S NOT "SPECIAL." THE BASIC RULES OF LOGIC APPLY TO YOU. IF EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING YOUR REASONING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, IT'S PROBABLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE YOU FUCKWAD.

I TRIED BEING NICE, I TRIED WORKING WITH YOU TO TURN THE READ AROUND, BUT FUCK YOU.

HOW THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE READING YOU AS TOWN.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I've decided I'm currently in favour of the likeabauss case. I just feel like he's making more sense right now.

Vote: Angry Fat BROs

Still V/LA.

Is anybody reading this as town? I'd be fine flashwagoning it.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Yes.

AP doesn't get angry.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Yessiree, we played together in Open 517 and we caught scum D1 on some simple nuance. Reread D1 there, look at what we bagged uncledaphne on. Sheep me on FratBros? I've got far more on him than we did on uncledaphne that game.

JacobSavage, AngryFratBoys is conveniently on your wagon (which has run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit) just like he was on the Guyett wagon (similarly run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit.) Doesn't that make you wonder? You are clearly not the best lynch right now for a town player, IMO. Why wouldn't he want to lynch between me and Orcinus to clear the air? Why is he just following the easy wagons? There is no town aligned logic that explains this behavior, because he is scum.

"OH EM GEE, REMEMBER HOW I CAUGHT SCUM ON DAY 1 THAT ONE TIME WITH YOU. THIS MEANS THAT I'M ALWAYS RIGHT, AND YOU SHOULD SHEEP ME HERE."

I'VE PEGGED FULL SCUMTEAMS AND ALL SCUM IN MULTIBALLS ON DAY 1 OR NIGHT 1 BEFORE. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I DO IT EVERY TIME.

YOU'RE A FUCKING RETARD IF YOU DON'T GET THAT.

[Angry Frat BROs]

JacobSavage, AngryFratBoys is conveniently on your wagon (which has run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit) just like he was on the Guyett wagon (similarly run up with absolutely no coherent case of any merit.) Doesn't that make you wonder? You are clearly not the best lynch right now for a town player, IMO. Why wouldn't he want to lynch between me and Orcinus to clear the air? Why is he just following the easy wagons? There is no town aligned logic that explains this behavior, because he is scum.

This just in, anyone who doesn't want to lynch between likeabauss and orcinus is scum

Ceph, you're scaring me with how cogent you're being :/

[Angry Frat BROs]

Let me run a full ISO on Sakura. I'm kind of twitchy right now from Bauss's full-retardation deathtunnel, and all I'm remembering solidly is this page, which looks bad for reasons you/Ceph have already pointed out.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I guess Ceph never called Sakura scummy for it, but the editing out the words and pics makes it look intentional to me.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Sakura ISO:

11: Pushes shitty PL during RVS. I don’t like anyone who did this for obvious reasons (semi-serious PL was for shitty mistake that would never be repeated). Even if you try to justify it with “lol RVS,” it’s still postured in a way to make easier a push onto Hermy later.

The exchange with TIP about yessiree feels strange. Yessiree interrupts her “reaction test,” and TIP goes in and is like “OMG CONFTOWN.” I don’t think it’s a 3-way scum theatre because there’s no way there good enough to think to do something like that, but that exchange makes yessiree and TIP both look worse than Sakura.

I like the transition into voting TIP.

Don’t like that she answered “leash the SK,” but that’s stupid-motivated, not scum-motivated.

Naked-vote onto JS is a little strange, especially because she preemptively justifies the naked-vote. Could be scum trying to avoid any potential fire.

Sakura’s catchup wall post V/LA seems fine. She justifies her play, and asks a decent set of questions.

Don’t like her lack of effort to move me/AP off RC, though. Town typically want to get their townreads working together as much as possible.

I like Sakura’s push on Guyett. She points out where he’s being hypocritical with respect to her play, and aggressively pokes holes in his logic wherever possible.

Her interactions with my other head about the cabd-gambit are… strange… AP’s been AWOL from this game recently, and that interaction is worth more discussion.

I like her cheekiness in post 625

Her logic in how to treat MVP is wtf. It’s a Cerberus with at least one known head; treat it like one.

The way Sakura twists your words around post 1000 comes across more as a lack of understanding, though, whereas with Ceph later it comes across as intentional.

On the whole, I’m leaning town on Sakura. Need to calibrate with AP to see what he thinks once he gets his head back in this game.

[Angry Frat BROs]

re Ceph: Most of this game is full-retarding.

He's not.

That makes me a bit nervous.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Case on JacobSavage:

His obsession with yessiree’s PL vote on TIP is strange. He obsesses over it more than reasonable.

Everything in 1082 reads as coasty-scum trying to sit in the middle of town opinion. People call Bauss’s shit logic townie, so JS calls it townie. Fluff comment about sangres to look engaged. Throws shade at Orc because there’s now pressure moving his way. Guyett wagon dissolves, so time to actually justify the townread that he gave for no reason earlier. The worst, however, is this:

I like yessire's thoughts on wake. From what I've seen of him this replace out does seem totally not himself.

Followed by:

Any thoughts on what AP/I have posted given that you’ve just finished a game where we were both scum.

Nope because I can't read you to for shit as that game showed.

So he’s implying that he thinks our slot is scummy based on Wake, but without considering anything that AP and I have posted. It looks like him trying to move with the BS that Bauss is spouting without really understanding it himself, so he’s just going to justify a push with as little as possible.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Orcinus, you should claim

#Logic.

[Angry Frat BROs]

A more thorough/concise case against FratBoys:

1) Al Capone Ego (psychobabble) This is tied to the "Proof or GTFO." Al Capone ego goes something like this "You can't PROVE I killed those people, even though everybody knows I did." I hinted at pieces of this in earlier posts, and he's done it a coupe times. He's refuting an argument strictly because I can't prove it... like proving anything on D1 in mafia is possible. This is scum behavior.

OR IT'S TOWN TRYING TO WORK WITH SOMEONE TO TURN AROUND A SHITTY READ.

2) Guilty Conscience (psychobabble) Talked about it previously.

AKA BULLSHIT THAT YOU'RE SPEWING TO MAKE ME LOOK WORSE

3) Momentum shift onto easy Guyett wagon (Guyett seems pretty clearly ambivalent/frustrated town to me) Anti-town behavior to run up on D1 so fast and hard, and setup a lynch with so little contributions from other players.

"IT'S ANTI-TOWN TO PUSH WAGONS AND APPLY PRESSURE. ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE YOU'RE SCUMREADING." ARE YOU REALLY THIS FUCKING RETARDED

4) Setting up for future easy lynch targets - talked about this previously

"HE'S SCUM, THEREFORE WHAT HE DOES IS SCUMMY." CIRCULAR LOGIC FTW YOU FUCKWAD.

5) Defending scum buddy Orcinus (this is leveraged, and I know most will skip over it, fine. But Orcinus is also scum and FratBoys actively defended the slot before even attempting to sort said slot.) I asked a similar line to Cabd. Why does a townie defend another player that they haven't strongly sorted from another player? Especially if the accusing player is a townread.

"OH EM GEE, I USED SHITTY LOGIC TO SCUMREAD HIM, AND IT'S SCUMMY OF HIM TO POINT OUT WHEN I USE THAT SAME SHITTY LOGIC ON SOMEONE ELSE." THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE THIS FUCKING RETARDED. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT.

6) Steering conversation - things like shutting down an interrogation into another suspect, trying to get people to focus back on what he states/says is important, etc. Theres several examples of this. It's anti-town behavior, and most often scum.

POINT OUT WHERE I'VE DONE THIS. OH WAIT, YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP AGAIN.

7) Wanting to lynch RC despite what I perceive as an in thread subtle vouch (Post 269) I stuck this in there because it supports a few of the above items. Orcinus is also conveniently on this maneuver.

RC IS FUCKING RETARDED AND SCUMMY. THAT'S TWO GOOD REASONS TO WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE

8) Overly defensive - example: he defended against an OBVIOUS joke I made about Jersey Shore and GTL. Not even a chuckle, or laugh, and he didn't just glaze over it. He addressed it directly like it had merit. There's a few other examples. He's still trying to refute me, despite having a SINGLE vote on him and not being in any trouble. This is tied to #2 and #1 lightly, but is scummy behavior in its own right. To clarify a bit, this is a departure from expected behaviors. Look at his post 343. He cuts up RC for doing exactly what he does later with my joke. Pretty lol IMO. Again in 607 about taking jokes seriously.

SORRY NOT SORRY THAT NEITHER I NOR MY PARTNER WATCH THAT PIECE OF SHIT SHOW, AND THEREFORE DIDN'T GET YOUR RETARDED JOKE

9) Overt buddying - right from the start. Examples are obvious.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL MAKING MORE SHIT UP

10) Useless fluff posting - I made a few comments about people reliving the glory days of games gone by. FratBros did a bunch of this. With Cabd, with sangres, with ffery, with JS, Guyett, etc etc. It's half buddying, half filling the thread with useless posts. By itself, it could be null... but look at his response to it in 571, line 2. He can't refute it, so he just downplays it. "Bah, I only did that with Nacho."

AND THIS IS SCUM MOTIVATED HOW? OH WAIT, IT ISN'T; IT'S ME AND AP BEING EXCITED TO PLAY WITH PLAYERS WE LIKE.

UNTIL YOU SHOWED UP AND DECIDED TO BE A MASSIVE TWAT

11) Rephrasing my arguments - (This is a bit of a stretch. It could be that he either doesn't understand or he's scum and just positioning.) He's done this a couple times. He's tried to frame my psychobabble arguments as logic problems. If you're a student of language, words have meaning and sentences have a rhythm. Two different musicians can play the same notes, and they'll sound completely different. I'm essentially saying that his word choices, responses, etc are singing a different song to my ears. It's not logic, its nuance, don't re-frame it. I have a trained ear, and I hear it clearly.

POINTING OUT WHERE YOU MISREP ME=REPHRASING? THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?

12) Mis-reps - 358, 540, 624, 629, 728

WAY TO NOT LINK ANY OF THOSE POSTS TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN DUE DILIGENCE, BECAUSE A HALF-RETARDED MONKEY COULD SEE THAT YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP

13) His scum reads are people I completely disagree on (this is perspective driven, YMMV)

NOT ENOUGH L'S AND O'S YOU MORON

14) He's leaving himself back doors on his town reads. He's a very aggressive player and I'd almost call it fence sitting. (this is an add-on, not enough merit on its on but coupled with all the above it reads scummy.)

AND THERE YOU GO AGAIN MAKING SHIT UP, BECAUSE CITING EVIDENCE WOULD MAKE IT OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE THAT YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT

If anybody has any questions about anything in particular, and your name is not Orcinus, FratBoys, or MC Maraca, please ask and I'll endeavor to explain myself better.

So basically you're a fucking retard who's full of shit because backing off this deathtunnel would make it obvious to everyone that you're scum

[Angry Frat BROs]

If you're on that list, I'd love to answer questions or hear your opinion about my read or case on FratBros in 1048. I can clarify any points that aren't clear and lay out more complete logic behind each.

Your definition of "complete" is apparently "me saying things that you should accept as correct."

[Angry Frat BROs]

but the editing out the words and pics makes it look intentional to me.

I didn't "Edit out" anything I just highlighted the part that jumped to me and clicked the quote button, I thought you'd have seen that's what I do everytime I quote something.

But ok i'll run you through my thought process when I saw Ceph's post.

1) I saw the obvious picture saying Egocentric, and i was like "wth?"
2) I read he quoted that thing bauss said and then made a comment saying people not on either of the 2 was scum.
3) I thought he thought one of the 2 was scum and was pushing people to take a side.
4) I didnt remember who Cephrir was voting so I looked at the last vote count.
5) He wasn't voting either of the 2 so that jumped out to me and I asked him the question.

And you missed the first three words of his sentence that made the sarcasm beyond obvious?

The hell?

wat.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Dear Cephrir,

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

wtf you'd take this bullshit at face value?

The eff are you smoking Nacho.

[Angry Frat BROs]

i hate this game

i hate it, i hate it, i hate it.

VOTE: orcinus

is it cos you got busted?

Explain to me why we stopped lynching this shit?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Don't tempt me.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Why would I care that obvscum is voting me you retarded twat?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Hurling homophobic insults at the gay guys.

Keep it classy.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Dear Cephrir,

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

wtf you'd take this bullshit at face value?

The eff are you smoking Nacho.

Why would I ignore it?

Because he's failed to substantiate the claim despite being asked multiple times by multiple people.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I've mentioned it multiple times in the speakeasy forum, as well as in several game threads.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Don't replace out. I'm also really angry right now.

I'm taking a step back and not posting here for a bit.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Frat Bros get mad when called dicks

but it's okay for them to call others retards and assholes

#logic

NO

NO

FUCK YOU

SORRY GM AND NACHO, THIS IS FUCKING INEXCUSABLE.

I DIDN'T GET UPSET THAT HE CALLED ME A DICK. THAT'S NOT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED

GUYETT INSULTED ME USING A HOMOPHOBIC INSULT, WHICH CUTS PRETTY DEEP BECAUSE SOME OF US HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE SHIT THAT COMES WITH BEING GAY ON A DAILY BASIS

YOU'RE SO FUCKING INTENT ON PUSHING MY MISLYNCH, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO FUCKING MISREP WHAT HAPPENED IN A CONVERSATION THAT MOVED OUT OF THE GAME?

NO

FUCK YOU

THERE'S NO FUCKING WAY YOU'RE TOWN.

VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
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VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE
VOTE: YESSIREE

[Angry Frat BROs]

Second, don't assume I'm the same as your kind that I can differentiate between what insults to homophobic people cut deep and what insults do not.

Hurling homophobic insults at the gay guys.

Keep it classy.

You can't be this dense. I refuse to believe it.

I'm trying to calm down because Bauss's shitty ass arguments and the VIs sheeping it are giving me a fucking aneurysm. I stepped back from the game because I was getting to agitated, and then you came right back in to keep goading me.

Can you get why I'm frustrated and getting ready to jump through the internet to verbally eviscerate people?

[Angry Frat BROs]

If you've decided you're gonna toss around words like how Fat Joe makes it rain, then you've made the decision. And that decision takes away your right to complain about other people's insults hurled at you.

The point is that I'm upset about the BS logic going around and people's inability to engage in a way that makes things arguable.

Guyett's insult was one that I took as being against my sexual orientation.

See the difference.

[Angry Frat BROs]

FratBros, don't call me retarded ever again. K thx bai.

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and read the way in which I've crushed your shitty case.

[Angry Frat BROs]

so what? you're gonna justify your usage of the word "retard" now?

as far as I'm concerned insults directed at sexual orientation and insults targeting a specific group of handicapped belong in the same trash can

That's fair.

I'll simply use "asshole" and "head up ass" from now on.

[Angry Frat BROs]

:/

You're handling it fine. I get that it wasn't intentional. We both crossed the line of what's appropriate, and we both needed to step back and calm down.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Hahaha. Crushed? That's almost the worst rebuttal I've ever seen. I didn't even think it was serious, I thought you were just raging and typing. But if that is your rebuttal, it is your best foot forward, and you're confident with it in its current form, I'll gladly respond... (likely on Monday when I'm at a computer.) Do you want to phone a friend? Or maybe use another lifeline? Because "LOLOL, UR Moron" isn't exactly a crushing rebuttal.

You've consistently failed to address any point I've raised about why you're case is horrible.

You're being loud and obnoxious to get people to sheep you without substantiating any claims.

Now that I've calmed down, I can put my vote in a serious place.

VOTE: Bauss that level of narrative manipulation can't come from town.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You and possibly Guyett. Scumread on Guyett's diminished a bit because of how apologetic he got; scum normally try to goad me further when I get emotional.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Summary of RC's ISO:

1) Jumps on Hermy PL.

2) After the PL post, RC posts a bunch of setup-spec fluff surrounding 3rd party leashing.

3) Starts doing the "I'm town" thing over and over.

4) Does the octuple-selfvote thing.

5) Votes Hermy for generic, minimal reason.

6) Fails to get the NY165 joke

7) Does more "I'm town" stuff. Looks like there may have been a shitty reaction test in there.

8) Sheeps wagon on me for generic reasons.

9) Latest interaction with me asking about who I think's scum on my wagon.

So, now for the case:

1) There is a complete lack of scumhunting. Every post but his most recent 2 posts are fluff posts. That's 95% fluffposting, for those counting from home. It's a bit less if you count the octuple-vote thing as a reaction test.

2) Doesn't take positions frequently, and when he does he provides minimal or scummy reasoning for those positions.

[Angry Frat BROs]

1) OMGUS isn't a scumtell

2) You don't know what that means, since I'm voting for you because of how you're pushing me, not because you're pushing me.

Also, my point wasn't that you forgot to put post tags; it's that you're blatantly misrepping me, and not using post tags to make it harder for people to check the posts you're talking about.

So you've just misrepped me again.

Want to continue, or are you going to take your head out of your ass?

[Angry Frat BROs]

...so do you only have 1 scumread?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Here's what I don't get:

RC asks me a question about who I find scummy on my wagon. I give a list (one of whom I'm voting for)

RC asks me why I'm reading him as scum.

I present the case.

MVP comes in and passive-aggressively jabs me for providing this case while not voting RC, despite the fact that I'm 1) Voting for a scumread and 2) Was asked to give the case.

@MVP was it the notscience head who posted that shit?

[Angry Frat BROs]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT BAUSS AND RC. ARE YOU REALLY THAT INTENT ON GETTING A FUCKING MISLYNCH.

NO, MY RAGE ISN'T FAKE. I'M GOING TO FUCKING VERBALLY EVISCERATE YOU EVERY TIME YOU SAY SOMETHING STUPID, BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING A FUCKING MORON.\

YOU'VE MISREPPED EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN POST I'VE MADE IN THIS GAME.

YOU'VE REFUSED TO ENGAGE ME LIKE A REASONABLE PERSON.

YOU'VE DONE NOTHING BUT SAY SHIT THAT'S FALSE.

THIS IS MY RESPONSE TO EVERYTHING YOU'VE POSTED IN THIS FUCKING GAME:





























HOW THE FUCK IS ANYONE READING THIS SHIT AS TOWN. HE HAS DEMONSTRATED 0 INTEREST IN WORKING OUT ANYTHING.

[Angry Frat BROs]

^

Unless you're talking about the Orc read. I thought I'd already yelled at Nacho about 831 being a shitty reason to scumread Orc.

Nacho, you got a reason for scumreading Orc beyond Bauss's bullshit that he refuses to substantiate with facts?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Because I don't see how you'd agree with that line of reasoning given that he's repeatedly refused to back anything with data, and the fact that Bauss's deathtunneling in a way that betrays a lack of caring about alignments.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I expect you to be able to tell our heads apart :/

[Angry Frat BROs]

You called me AP

[Angry Frat BROs]

BRO-you = BRO head of AFB.

Ah, I misread it :/

[Angry Frat BROs]

No. The nuance here is that you were/are demanding proof of something that you know nobody can prove. I can't prove you're guilty, nobody can. It's D1. There is no proof. Why ask for it? It's an absolutely useless post. You could've said "I disagree" or "That's not a strong enough tell on it's own" or any number of other dequalifiers.

You use an argument that you can't substantiate, and then you call it scummy for me to point out that you have no reason to make that argument in the first place. Then you used the fact that I tried to use logic to further push your shit case.

I can't even...

This isn't really an appropriate response. You can't just say "BS" to refute an argument. Here's a primer on how word choices provide insights into the brain:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/let ... they-speak
There are much more in depth applications. It can be very effective, until the subject (you in this case) is aware that reading of that nature is going on. (This is a big part of why I keep my cases to myself, and don't always explain my reads in great detail. These are some cool tools that I use frequently in mafia, but the more I talk about them the less effective they become with people who are aware.)

1) I'm a linguist

2) I've seen this done before by people who are much better at it than you are.

The way in which you've used it is wrong. The only argument you made here was that because I pointed out that your arguments are bad instead of saying "you're stupid, I'm town," that's indicative that I'm skirting around the end.

Implicit in playing this game is the assertion that everyone is reading themselves as town, and taking actions to assert that in a more explicit way is a waste of time

. It's not me skirting the end, it's me finding the end so self-evident that I wouldn't think anyone would have their head so far up their ass to push that.

This is either a misrep, or your skimming my posts. Earlier, in 795, I talked about why this move was shady. It was early on D1, with a number of players not having contributed much yet, and you helped accelerate a wagon right in the middle of some content development that was starting from players who had previously not been adding much. Town needs conversation and interactions between players to flesh out reads. It wasn't just that you pushed the wagon, it was also the TIMING of it. It was

anti-town

in nature.

If we want to talk about words as a window, there's one right there. Note the use of "anti-town," not "scummy."

Also, page 26 isn't early day 1, so I don't know what you're smoking there.

And L-2 is still far from a lynch given how people play on this site, especially this group of players.

I especially like this one. Again you didn't actually refute or challenge my case. You said clearly, earlier, that of all the active posters you had townreads on. You further stated that the scum were not posting. This is positioning, plain and simple. Generally speaking, people who post less are easier to lynch than active players. They don't defend as much, they lack the body of work that allows other players to develop proper reads on them, etc. etc.

Note: This behavior also directly contradicts with your behavior above on the Guyett wagon. If you say you want the scum to start posting so you can find them, why did you rush the Guyett wagon to L-2? Why not draw the non-posters into the conversation? When actions and behaviors don't match up with what you're saying, it's generally because you're scum.

You've just misrepped what your own point was. Wtf I can't even.

Why, if you were townreading me at the time (please correct me if I'm wrong assumption), did you jump in to defend the Rank/Orcinus slot? He wasn't catching votes. If the logic/premise of the argument was shit, let Orcinus defend it himself. Why did you HELP him? You stepped in on behalf of somebody who's alignment you hadn't even sorted yet (please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.)

Because you're inability to use logic and your refusal to even try is infuriating.

This is harder to point to, because it is more of an ebb and flow of the game. Timing, etc. I had a discussion with Mollie and Nacho I think about this in another game. I'll let this point slide for now rather than try to explain it, because it would require a lot of words and this post is already getting beefy, again. Note, I'm not conceding this point... I just don't want to whargarbl up the thread anymore than I have to.

"Let me use an ambiguous point that I can't substantiate but that sounds really smart to push my shitty case further."

This response isn't

really

a suitable defense either. Somebody else in thread said

quite clearly

that RC was acting far outside of normal meta/context. This suggested

quite clearly

to me,

reading between the lines,

that it was deliberate. Subsequent conversation with RC verified that it was

in fact

deliberate. Whether it is scummy or not isn't the question... it's that you pushed a lynch on it rather than consider the possibilities or scenarios that would explain the strange departure in behavior. (

Personally,

I don't think scum would actively draw attention in the way RC did, so I moved that behavior to the null/town side... not scum.)

Overemphasizing with a side of hedging. Why are you lying about how you've perceived RC's actions.

I've played with scum-RC before. He tried to push a mislynch on a mason day 1, then fakeclaimed JOAT with a vig-shot. Scum RC can stick his neck out and draw attention to himself.

You didn't/don't have to watch the show to derive clearly that I was making a joke or being facetious. There's literally nothing serious or substantive in the entire reference. Let's reread it again:

I still don't get the reference, even with you telling me it's a Jersey Shore reference, or even a joke. Given the level of shit coming out of your mouth, I wouldn't be surprised if you used this as an argument.

And you don't even touch the rest of it, despite promising "more soon."

tl;dr, here's my response to your case:



And here's what I think of your opinions on me:

[Angry Frat BROs]

TIP doesn't make any sense bottom of page 53 through top of page 54.

There's a big leaning town one though: laziness.

There's 0 town-motivation in being lazy.

it's not about the votes I have

I have been lynched while being much happier about a game than I am now

Look at the top two wagons. Neither make a lick of sense.

Nobody in this town is willing to see anything logical

We have 5 lurkers and nothing is being done about them

This is how any reasonable person should feel about this game.

3. Sakura Hana: can somebody TELL ME why I'm wrong on this read it's driving me nuts

Did you ever respond to my Sakura ISO?

wtf that RC wagon.

Not policy, utility

Why are you fixated on trying to create a distinction that doesn't exist?

I have a strong scumread on Frat Br0s.

I have a mild townread on TIP.

I have a mild townread on Likeabauss.

Reasons are hard, let's spew random things and hope people just nod their heads and ignore my lack of engagement with the game.

C'mon people. FratBros or Orcinus. I'm literally begging for votes, so confident I'll do the 1 v 1 thing, and consistently laying out more and more reasons why these two are scum. Their responses are "UR Shitlord" and or "BS prove it." I mean, is this an acceptable defense in anybody's mind? You dont have to buy into my psychobabble to see that something is seriously wrong with their play.

1) Shitty AtE to get lurkers to vote with him.
2) You're definition of "laying out more reasons" is "misrepping everything they do to make them look scummy." That then gets followed by misrepping the next point when I point out that you've made another misrep.
3) You're right, you don't have to buy into psychobabble, you have to buy into NOT BELIEVING IN FUCKING LOGIC.

In support of Bauss, FratBros doesn't look angry.

He looks like he's making a show of being angry, without any genuine anger behind it, hence my vote.

You're blacklisted if you're scum. You don't get to discredit my emotions you asshat.

Does anyone else not see that FratBros being this hard to lynch makes him obvious scum?

...Or means that scum burned too much towncred pushing the wagon and realized that they can't get their mislynch through.

I like that caled came back with a read-list that isn't just moving with the flow of the game. Guyett raises a good point about the meta-read on him, though. I want to hear caled's response to that. Also, I don't like how when asked about her reads on orc/bauss, she only substantiates the bauss read.

...and Hermy continues to provide no content. Joy.

Anybody notice anything strange about Orcinus's reads list?

You mean this post where 5 names are missing? I didn't think that was a reads list more than a complaints list.

You get +10 to my opinion of your intelligence.

bauss gets +10 to misrepping. Again.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I do not see any scum-motivation behind the push on AFB and orc by bauss

Bauss does not gain much by investing in this act

the WORST case scenario assuming that bauss is wrong is the cost of 2 mislynches. However, in this worst scenario, there will be enough information gathered through the duration of the lynches to deduce who is scum

Look at all those townreads he's getting for this bullshit. There's your motivation.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I just can't read anymore of the crap coming from him and FratBoys. Its not even mediocre scum play, it just makes me sad.

"OH EM GEE, I CAN'T JUST KEEP MISREPPING SHIT AND HOPING PEOPLE WILL JOIN ME, SO I'M JUST GOING TO ATE"

[Angry Frat BROs]

It's not bullshit. And even if it is, I'm buying it for now in this game of bullshit.

How's the amount of misrepping he's pulling not bullshit?

How's pushing data-driven tells that he then claims are UNPROVEABLE not bullshit?

How's his constant refusal to substantiate what he says with evidence not bullshit?

[Angry Frat BROs]

If Orc flips scum, I'm thinking TIP partner. His "claim now bro" looks like coaching a scumbuddy *not* to get derphammered, and then blowing Guyett's reaction-test looks like trying to make sure Orc doesn't have a shit reaction.

Orc's last few pages have been meh; I was expecting a lot more after he got back from V/LA.

Intent to hammer here.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I've seen it work before.

pedit: The level of intelligence required to pull what I postulated is minimal.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ceph, looks like you get to join the club of people Bauss constantly misreps looking to strongarm lurkers into a mislynch.

Welcome to the club.

Yessiree and Bauss coming out immediately to try to strongarm town into pushing the mislynch is scummy, ftr. Bauss's insistence on posting high-level conjecture about Rank's play, while not addressing Orc's play with substance, is scummy.

Caled's fencesitting looks like newbscum.

TIP's vote jump is awkward as fuck, and looks scummy, but it wouldn't work with yessiree/bauss's push for the lynch.

Sakura Hana looking super-town these past few pages.

[Angry Frat BROs]

If Orc flips scum, I'm thinking TIP partner. His "claim now bro" looks like coaching a

scumbuddy

*not* to get derphammered, and then blowing Guyett's reaction-test looks like trying to make sure Orc doesn't have a shit reaction.

Orc's last few pages have been meh; I was expecting a lot more after he got back from V/LA.

Intent to hammer here.

...
Yessiree and Bauss coming out immediately to try to strongarm town into pushing the

mislynch

is scummy, ftr. Bauss's insistence on posting high-level conjecture about Rank's play, while not addressing Orc's play with substance, is scummy.

...

TIP's vote jump is awkward as fuck, and looks scummy, but it wouldn't work with yessiree/bauss's push for the lynch.

Sakura Hana looking super-town these past few pages.

A blunt transition from Intention to hammer a

scumread

to defending a perceived

mislynch

my townread on you is diminishing

I never called Orc a scumread, did I? I kept my read on Orc ambiguous intentionally to prevent a derphammer.

Also, I don't lynch un-CC'd PRs.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Thinking back on it I do think TIP is scum, just for his silly shit with me claiming. Also, why is caled drawing more attention to TIP?

million dollar question right here.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Hey guys, not sure if you've heard this before:

Rank would not sub out on D1 as town. 100%
Rank would not sub out on D1 as cop. 150%
Orcinus is scum. ((100% + 150%) / 2) = 125%

Math is fun!

Bauss failing to substantiate claim #1 makes him scum – 100%
Bauss failing to substantiate claim #2 makes him scum – 100%

Bauss is scum = (100%+100%)/2 = 100%

I can say things without providing any reasons too! Can town sheep me to put Bauss at L-1 now?

[Angry Frat BROs]

hate to piss in your cornflakes but that math is wrong...

Guyett, use this gif when addressing Bauss:



It counters him while providing the same level of reasoning he's been providing all game!

[Angry Frat BROs]

ambiguity does not come from town

False.

I can site two times off the top of my head that I've been ambiguous as town.

[Angry Frat BROs]

FratBros, you can keep screaming loudly at the top of your lungs, but I laid out a pretty substantial case against you and your response is pure suck. Just because I'm not continuing to drill at you doesn't mean you're right. You're now attempting to paint me as scum, without laying out any type of case on me. It's quite laughable really.

I substantiated both claims on Rank, with an in-depth analysis of him as a player and his play (based on 10 years of playing mafia with him.) You're asking me to substantiate a meta read that spans a volume of work you couldn't possibly read and understand in enough time to vote appropriately. There's an evolution of play, different archetypes he plays, deliberately different meta on different boards, calculated play refinements based on board play, and then there's a personal level of conversation and post game chats that provides far greater insight and depth on him than simply reading a game he played... you're asking like my meta read on Rank is something simple that I can point to a game or two and say "Here it is."

You're asking like you can only prove somebody is a murderer if they have murdered before.

You laid out a shitty case that was entirely misreps or shitty logic, which I've refuted multiple times. You can say "your responses suck" all you want, but the fact stands that your responses to my responses have consistently been you restating your original point, or you further misrepping what I've said. It's quite laughable, really.

Your definitions of "substantiated" and "in-depth" are shitty. All you've said are, "I know a lot, look at all this time we've spent together, sheep me," when I'm not going to do that over my own judgment. You've laid out the case in such a way that the only way for a person to agree with it is for them to be wiling to mindlessly sheep you. Given the way that you pushed me, I have no reason to believe that you'd represent Rank's game accurately if you can misrep his game to push through a mislynch.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Lastly, if we as a board simply give a pass when somebody fakeclaims a PR to avoid lynch, we are in effect gimping town PRs on a macro level. They have to expose themselves to CC, conceal their contempt for the fakeclaimer if they decide to not CC (lest they be identified by the scum team), or risk outting themselves and being hung anyways. The risks of a scum fake claim, in this given situation, are far less. Orcinus was about to be hung anyways so the fake claim gained him an opportunity to draw out a real cop, the potential to completely avoid an otherwise straightforward lynch, or the worst case scenario... draw out the real cop and lynch him/her anyways. The risks are all inherently on the town side, with nothing but advantages for the scum side, given this sweeping avoidance of lynching an un-CC'd PR and this scenario. This policy or board play is a power shift to the scum team, if we allow it to be the policy.

...you realize that the game is balanced with the assumption that a scum fakeclaim will get cc'd, right?

And even if I didn't think Orcinus was scum, I'd still think it highly suspicious that on D1 he claimed cop after his previous play for the dayphase. I don't think it jives at all. If he was actually town, why not lie and claim vanilla? Or BP? Breadcrumb and try to get some investigates off? An outted cop on D1 is getting RB'd or dead... and fast.

1) I think Orc's play as a cop jives fine, and YET AGAIN YOU'VE MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO ARGUE WITH YOU BY SAYING HIGH-LEVEL BULLSHIT AND NOT BACKING IT WITH ANYTHING. His play jives fine because he's one of the highest profile players in the game, and a likely target to get NK'd early. Trying to stand out less than he normally does could have potentially saved him a few days of not getting shot.

2) If you're a town cop at L-1 and you claim VT or BP, you get lynched (VT gets lynched because lol VT, BP is a scumclaim). You're right on the last part; see point 1.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Or BP?

Let's go over this again.

YOU LITERALLY JUST TOLD PEOPLE TO CLAIM A SCUMCLAIM AS TOWN COP.

HOLY SHIT.

CAN WE LYNCH THIS ALREADY.

[Angry Frat BROs]

you got any other scumreads besides bauss and me?

RC, caled, lesser degree JS.

[Angry Frat BROs]

BP = bulletproof? Did I use an incorrect acronym? 1shot BP is a town role?

Claiming BP is a PL reason from a good number of players because a town BP never wants to claim BP.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'll switch to Caled if I have to, but I'm leaving my vote on Bauss to indicate how much more I want him lynched.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'll switch to Caled if I have to, but I'm leaving my vote on Bauss to indicate how much more I want him lynched.

just put "I really want to lynch Bauss" in your sig or something; he's not getting lynched today so your vote is useless. you can express your conviction in less antitown ways.

I feel like talking about an unfinished game in my sig would be unkosher :/

VOTE: caled

I'm not supporting a lynch on an un-CC'd cop. Bauss is driving the lynch and he's still scum.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Sak wtf is the trajectory of your last two posts.

[Angry Frat BROs]

(also my vote is L-1)

[Angry Frat BROs]

(nm L-2 b/c Sak jumped off)

[Angry Frat BROs]

VOTE: Orci

How does a 3-headed hydra go V/LA at all, and then proceed to have no content when it returns.

I can't even...

[Angry Frat BROs]

yessiree jumped off too...

what the actual fuck was that chain of naked votes

This is what happens when the game is full of sheeple and lurkers.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Almost 1/3 of the players have fewer posts than the mod.

Even more than that have failed to do anything other than sheep and say high-level statements without trying to substantiate them.

And there's the hydra slip.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Almost 1/3 of the players have fewer posts than the mod.

Even more than that have failed to do anything other than sheep and say high-level statements without trying to substantiate them.

And yet even with my relatively high fluff:content ratio and my AtE, I still have provided more insight into my line of reasoning than you, and every player sans MC Maraca and sangres...

Strange how that happens. Maybe it's because I'm actually trying.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Also, not sure why nobody checked this sooner, but Rank hasn't posted on site since before his replace-out.

Bauss's case is bullshit.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You fail to realize how stubborn I am.

Bauss is scum spewing bullshit to push through a lynch on an un-CC'd cop. I've articulated like 10000000 times why the case is bullshit.

I'm going to keep piling on more evidence until people realize that Bauss is full of shit.

pedit: 1) Where is he begging for a CC, and 2) It's not a town mindset to want to lynch un-CC'd PRs, especially when the initial case was this as fuck.

pedit 2: The only time I've ever seen narrative manipulation on the level that bauss is pulling was Ceph-scum in NY 165. Townies don't go out of their way to intentionally misrep people and spread misinformation the way bauss has. I'm fine being the Cassandra this game; I do it all the time IRL.

[Angry Frat BROs]

MVP have you even looked at why I'm calling bauss scum, or are you just being a shitty player?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Even though the "misrep" can be seen differently from different view,
Scums don't do that either.

What does this even mean.

And if you have a reason for why Orc's scum beyond "Rank wouldn't replace out," I'd love to hear it because the only other reason for Orc-scum given has been Nacho's burden of proficiency case.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You've really got a lot of eggs in the "defend Orcinus" basket, huh pal?

Naw, it's more in the getting you lynched because you're scum. Orc's tangential to that.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'll summarize it to one sentence.
Post-claim actions.

Specificity is hard, let's make high-level statements that absolve me of responsibility later.

[Angry Frat BROs]

(hint: It means I want a real reason and not some bullshit that anyone could conjecture)

[Angry Frat BROs]

you're voting caled

you're not that stubborn

Only because this town refuses to put votes on bauss.

My vote'll be right back on him tomorrow.

[Angry Frat BROs]

(hint: It means the reason I'm even posting now it's because I've been prodded when I told mod that I was on V/LA.)

Again, you're 3 people.

How the fuck do you go V/LA

[Angry Frat BROs]

Sorry about the flake :/

Kind of feel like a dick now b/c I know about the 2nd V/LA...

[Angry Frat BROs]

That's not a soft-claim.

That's him saying that he'd troll fakeclaim a counterclaim normally.

RC is DGB 2.0, methinks.

[Angry Frat BROs]

And then you'll start fakeclaiming mason as town...

[Angry Frat BROs]

(It was a NY165 reference, where DGB fakeclaimed mason with Dramonic, who went along with it. I expect you to pull the same one day)

[Angry Frat BROs]

Anyway, I am mason this game.

With Caleb.

^_^

[Angry Frat BROs]

I figured. Have you not been tracking the conversation?

[Angry Frat BROs]

He's the head that's V/LA

[Angry Frat BROs]

(ie, V/LA for longer)

[Angry Frat BROs]

So let me get this straight.

Bauss puts his ass on the line and calls out his Mafia Bro for being scum, and Orci decides to claim cop (which isn't an unlikely scum claim).

Cabd freaks out, misreps Caled, and decides to policy lynch her instead of trying to get a good scum-lynch.

Everyone on the Caled wagon is bad and should feel bad.

Orci must be one hell of a scum-role or scum player to be getting this kind of protection from his scum-team.

~ Pete

You're missing the part where caled lurked for like 1500 posts and then didn't post anything of substance on the return.

And the Orc case is still thin and built on bullshit that scum-bauss is spewing.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Not happy with the caled wagon

Reasons still appear to be hard for everyone in this game.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Is it a policy lynch or is it a scum-lynch?

If it's not the second one, don't talk to me.

Second.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You mean like people did with Bauss's case on me and Orc? Are you seriously failing to see your hypocrisy there?

Writing a case now.

[Angry Frat BROs]

1) 14 posts. Demonstrates a lack of interest in scumhunting.

2) Doesn't provide a post with content until 1404. In this post, she provides only a reads list with rudimentary reasons behind the reads. The reads themselves are null; she has a mix of going-with-the-flow looking reads and consensus reads, whereas the scummier thing to do would be to have pure consensus reads.

However, some of the "reasons" she gives for reads are stuff like:

Cephrir - save the sarcasm for later, you have time to think your posts through

TIP - Surprised your post count has been so low for someone who everyone argues about.

Her "reasons" don't delve into her thinking: There's no transparency, and because of her lack of posting, there's no trajectory to analyze, either.

3)

I don't really believe in orc's claim, but it seems like an easy wagon so I'm also hesitant to vote for him.

So much fencesitting around the claim. Looks like newbscum who doesn't know how to proceed.

pedit: will address your points b/c I'm getting this up.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Re your points on 1406 and 1412, those aren't particularly scummy posts. I've drawn my case from elsewhere.

Re her reads list, I've pointed out why the content is weak and scum (lack of transparency of thought + lack of trajectory means that we have no way of tracking her thought process. Makes her reads ineffective for pushing anything, and obfuscates where buddies are later in the case of a flip)

Re her not voting Orc: The point is not that she's not voting him, it's that she massively fencesits.

[Angry Frat BROs]

She's not fence-sitting in favor of anything. She's massively cogdissing it up.

If it were newbtown being paranoid, I'd expect a full back-off to see how better players deal with it/to be safe. I'm a fairly experienced player, and I still don't like lynching un-CC'd PRs, even neg-utility ones.

[Angry Frat BROs]

@Bauss what is your Cephrir read?

[Angry Frat BROs]

I don't really believe in orc's claim, but it seems like an easy wagon so I'm also hesitant to vote for him.

MVP, that's not a full back-off. That's a fencesit.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not gonna lie, I almost want to lynch bauss for the blatant narrative manipulation at this point. It's just reaching astronomically absurd levels.

You/me/orc/JS.

We only need 5 more.

[Angry Frat BROs]

She's not fence-sitting in favor of anything. She's massively cogdissing it up.

If it were newbtown being paranoid, I'd expect a full back-off to see how better players deal with it/to be safe. I'm a fairly experienced player, and I still don't like lynching un-CC'd PRs, even neg-utility ones.

Considering MVPs strong townread and defense of scum-caledwitch, which of the following is true, IYO:

1) Scum-Caled has totally fooled town-MVP (and me) into thinking they are town.
2) Scum-Caled is being protected by scum-MVP.
3) Town-Caled is being correctly read by town-MVP.
4) Town-Caled is being (buddied, whiteknighted) by scum-MVP.

1

[Angry Frat BROs]

Bauss, if you had to declare a 4th and 5th scumread, who would those be?

pedit: Ceph, you're one of the few people in this game with any common sense.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Oh my god.

I can't even.

Holy fucking shit what is this.

Does opening this thread cause people to be dumb, or is this game just full of dumb people?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Rank has NEVER subbed out on a D1 of a game with me, ever. Here, recently, we hydra'd and drew a scum role. He was MIA for the first couple days and I got into a rhythm without him. He didn't want to ruin the rhythm and so he basically had 3 posts all game. He talked about not reading the role PM to avoid knowing our scum mates. He didn't read/post in the QT to avoid the top of mind awareness of associations/disassociations. He wasn't worried about letting me down as hydra partner, he was worried about letting the team down. He knew the game was tight, he knew we had to go to the end game, and he wasn't confident in our ability to get there if we drew any extra heat. He doesn't like the lying/hiding and knew I was on a good course, so he backed me up with his town skills.

Did you look up what the word "substantiate" means?

Because this is the first post you've made that's substantiated your case.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I believe we are competent enough to make the decision without info from flip and night action

I believe we are so massively incompetent that neither the flip nor night actions will resolve our general stupidity, but we should still lynch over nolynch on principle.

So much this.

[Angry Frat BROs]

@AP head of FratBros... In Shadows/Lights: Were any of the lengthy posts yours? If yes, can you point me to a couple? NOT SIGNING POSTS MAKES HYDRA PLAY META DIVING A BITCH. Or is there a trick to picking you out of a hydra?

Bro head here, sorry to disappoint. AP's not caught up on the game; he's taken a bit of a mafia break for ~reasons~. He should be back and caught up some time during day 2. Either you can wait for him, or you'll have to pick AP out on his writing style. He was hydra'd with mastin in that game, which should make it pretty easy to tell which is which.

@mod V/LA until Friday b/c finals

[Angry Frat BROs]

Still hesitant to lynch a claimed PR, although Bauss's last few posts have resonated a lot better with me.

I don't like this Sakura wagon either.

I'd be down to flash-wagon RC or caled.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Rank's not even here to defend himself. Its pretty bullshit that you, amongst others, are demanding I substantiate a read that I've openly stated I'm avoiding getting too deep into. Its an injustice to a player I respect to air out his play and methods without him having an opportunity to refute/discuss/obfuscate. Seriously.

So forgive me for not giving a crap about what you've asked me to "substantiate." You think Orcinus is sitting at L2 without substance? Are you reading this game or just skimming because you're scum? Just because you don't see the substance in my cases doesn't mean it isn't there.

Lastly, after my substantiation, why aren't you voting Orcinus?

I'm confused by your sense of ethics here, but that's irrelevant to the game.

The case from sangres and MVP's biggest issue is that it doesn't account for frustration/being fed up with the game. Orc took a lot of shit in NY165, and hasn't been in a lot of games since. I don't think him coming back to getting flashed-wagoned on what were initially thin reasons made him want to play.

You also underestimate how much I don't lynch un-CC'd PRs, at least not on day 1. There's no reason not to play the safe route, work through a few other lynches we'd go through anyways, and then lynch him if later. That way, if he's town, he gets some results.

[Angry Frat BROs]

VOTE: RC

Would much rather flash-wagon this. I'll be pulling an all-nighter tonight writing papers, so I can switch to SH if nobody wants to join me.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Annnnnnd my flashwagon won't happen

VOTE: SH

[Angry Frat BROs]

ftr if anyone has questions on the Harvard school of reading the

Aeneid

, or about inconsistency in either the

De Rerum Natura

or Ovid's

Metamorphoses

, I'll gladly answer.

Latin is fun ^_^

[Angry Frat BROs]

VOTE: orc

That's L-2. Nobody put him at L-1 for the self hammer until we decide that we've gotten in all the taking we want.

[Angry Frat BROs]

wtf do you mean by "something missing between."

[Angry Frat BROs]

Maraca claim action.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Thank you Cabd/Mara

VOTE: Hermy

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not letting her use the VI card to justify cutting the day phase short.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I'm not going to let you use a null action to justify pushing on an obvtown.

1) Hermy's far from obvtown. I had her in the null range until end of yesterday.

2) Null action my ass:

Town motivation: None

Scum motivation: Ends day early, prevents scumteam from having to awkwardly dance around caughtscum.

Personal motivation: None

I'm not letting Hermy use "stupid motivation" to obfuscate an objectively scummy action.