Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

OKAY EVERYONE LISTEN UP, READ THIS POST BEFORE YOU POST.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Claim: PGO

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS IS NOT A JOKE, THIS IS NOT A TEST, I'M A PGO SO IF YOU'RE SCUM PLEASE TARGET ME KTHX

[zMuffinMan]

13. zMuffinMan
^Eh, will figure him out later, but null for now.

how are you not reading me as town?

Scum found. And I have a case!

that's actually rather solid, but i want to give morph a chance to defend himself before we lynch him

Vote: thezmon

[zMuffinMan]

Putting them in scum won't change their alignment, ergo scum.

keen insight

I can't tell if this post is serious or not, which in RVS seems like a bad thing

it was serious. i really do think psychlone's case was strong. so strong, even, that i'm not entirely sure it's possible for morph to argue against it. but i'm a fair girl, and i believe in giving them a chance to defend themselves, even if their lynch seems almost inevitable after that case.

pieguyn is an early town read for confusion over this

i was kind of meh about pieguy's apparent confusion here. i dunno how you're reading it as town.

I don't believe the PGO claim

what about the claim made you think it wasn't real?

[zMuffinMan]

town: GP, varsoon, psychlone, BRO, mastin
maybe TNE

i don't like how little morph has done anything that didn't feel completely empty in this game, especially considering the amount of posts from them.

i don't like the continued flippancy from thezmon.

i don't like pieguy being confused about stuff that isn't really confusing at all. and the attack on varsoon is pretty meh.

[zMuffinMan]

Moar RQS answers please. Thanks Mastin.

and i didn't like this post. way past the point where RQS even matters

[zMuffinMan]

At the very least, it reminded me of someone's PGO claim in a prior game

you're imagining things

Have you ever made a PGO claim in a previous game?

no

[zMuffinMan]

Did you use that format for claiming PGO after seeing someone else do it to claim?

no

Have you used that same format to claim a role in the past?

no

[zMuffinMan]

Why did you claim PGO?

i'm not very funny and it was the cleverest thing i could think of to start this game :<

is that what you wanted to hear, varsoon? was all this to humiliate me?

I want a specific explanation with quotes

if i wasn't super-tired i might entertain this just to absolutely destroy your case. but not right now. the tl;dr version of it is that your original reasons for voting him weren't good (how is it "better" to bandwagon for absolutely no reason? plus even if giving reasons was in some way scummy, or varsoon was scummy for the way in which he gave reasons, as varsoon has pointed out, why attack just varsoon for it?) and nothing in your push since then has made for a good case.

you're townreading him, for apparently no reason?

nah, i'm townreading him because i like the aggressive responses to you. e.g. while i literally loled when i read, "you're afraid of town-varsoon," that came across as fairly town.

[zMuffinMan]

i also remember thinking, "pieguy has never played with thor."

[zMuffinMan]

@pieguy,

no, not really.

1. what would have needed to happen for you

not

to consider a vote on thezmon opportunistic?
2. the first part isn't even scummy, and you

are

trying to say everything he does is scummy, so uh... yeah. the second part is kind of ironic but i don't really remember what this is referring to.
3. this didn't happen (he did point out the inconsistency in who you're attacking, but it wasn't "redirecting")
4. *shrug*
5. no
6. no
7. so what? this actually looks more town than scummy

plus it's not about whether or not you have a townread on BRO, but whether or not you

actually

think what varsoon did is scummy, and if you do, you should think BRO is equally scummy for it, regardless of your read on him. or double standards. whatever.

[zMuffinMan]

posts like 126, for example, don't exactly help your cause when you claim you're not trying to paint everything he does as scummy

[zMuffinMan]

i don't have the energy to headdesk. i'm going to lie down for a bit.

before i do, though, i'm going to say that i flat-out disagree with morph's assessment of varsoon being more "abrasive" as scum. it depends what they mean by abrasive, but i think he's rather passive-polite in the way he talks to people as scum. *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

I agree on nacho's townread on pieguy.

for being confused about whether i seriously thought your case on morph was good and that morph needed to defend themselves against it?

what do you think about the exchange with varsoon?

Varsoon, why is your vote on pieguy?

why is this the only question you're asking? you're clearly not reading the thread.

7. pieguyn - trying to figure stuff out
1. BROseidon - Varsoon vote reasons were bad and he should feel bad.

which stuff are you referring to when you say pieguy was trying to figure stuff out? because most of the stuff i remember him trying to figure out wasn't alignment-indicative (is this a serious post? is that a serious post?) and i wouldn't exactly call his exchange with varsoon trying to figure varsoon out

as for BRO, one reason i have him as town is that i didn't mind the reasons for his vote. the attack felt more townish than scummy, really. dunno why you have him as scum for that.

Since when is "buddy" a good thing in Mafia.

you don't know what buddying means if you think defending a town read is buddying.

and you clearly have no idea how to play this game if you think that's a bad thing.

[Varsoon] and Pie come off TvT

how?

[zMuffinMan]

pieguyn's efforts to get the not-obviously-off-topic stuff figured out strikes me as a much more town-like reaction.

ok. i disagree that it was not-obviously-off-topic, which is part of the reason i don't like how much apparent confusion there is from him about it. PA's reaction to it is more in line with how i imagined a town player reacting to it

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin was fueling the flames to bolster Varsoon's mindset

... you realise pieguy was the one who

asked

me to do it, right?

without taking a definitive stance, ala voting Pie to echo your sentiment

ok. why do you think i'd switch my vote from a scum read to someone else when the wagon on the scum read is bigger?

[zMuffinMan]

Post 212 makes Cabd very sad.

why?

[zMuffinMan]

*shrug*

how much of that stems from paranoia and how much of that stems from actually thinking i'm scum?

would it help if i told you i'm town?

[zMuffinMan]

@thezmon

who do you think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

no you were doing this even before I asked you to elaborate on your opinion on my case

i don't like pieguy being confused about stuff that isn't really confusing at all.

and the attack on varsoon is pretty meh.

it's really subtle but even smth like this counts.

no, i don't think that single comment is what wayne is referring to when he says i was "bolstering varsoon's mindset", and that single comment is hardly fueling any flames, but there's an easy way to find out for sure.

@wayne,

were you referring to that single comment before pieguy asked me to elaborate when you said you think i'm buddying varsoon and fueling the flames, or were you referring to after pieguy specifically asked me to talk about it?

you can just go blaming me when I ask you to elaborate

blame you for what? wayne is saying he thinks i'm scummy for the way in which i argued against your varsoon case, i pointed out that the only reason i was doing that is because you specifically asked me to.

also, these kinds of arguments based exclusively on where people's vote is are invalid.

what do you think of wayne's argument about me not voting you?

[zMuffinMan]

I took like three seconds to write it. I joke about a fake claim, making an obvious joke OMGUS on Mastin, and lo and behold, we somehow got a shitstorm of a wagon on me

nah. well, maybe that's what some people thought was scummy about you, but i was thinking you were scum from your first post. i didn't like anything about it, and the concern for which head of each hydra was posting felt like you trying to fake town concern for this.

why am i a null read btw?

and why are you still voting mastin if you have a scum read on wayne and TNE?

[zMuffinMan]

brb finding scum instead.

how's this going for you?

wait what, now all of a sudden you think it's town v town? can you explain why the flip flop plz?

it's convenient for his stance on me

[zMuffinMan]

Varsoon's shit-lord comment seems genuine

this is one of the things i was referring to when i mentioned varsoon's aggression towards pieguy in that conversation, and why i don't think it's like the passive-polite play i saw from him attacking scum reads (or people who were attacking him) in some scum games i've played with him.

When did I say you v Varsoon was anything but TvT?

what was the point of your varsoon vote if you thought it was TvT the whole time?

Don't misrep muffin. Your whole double team on Pie with with Varsoon smacks of buddying. I already said that, so why are you trying to confine my thoughts to one post when that isn't what I said?

er... i pointed out that your attack on me was based on something pieguy

asked

me to do, pieguy apparently was confused about this, i wanted you to clarify this is actually what you were doing.

Why is it a "fake town concern" if I want to know who is posting what?

because i don't remember you asking questions about which head posted what or anything similar to that in any of the other games i've played with you. granted, i've never seen you play from the very beginning, but i don't ever recall you being overly concerned with figuring out which head posted what.

Yes, I have scum reads on wayne and TNE, but they're both weak reads, and I don't know which path to take.

so how are you going to decide? you're not exactly questioning or commenting on either one of them.

[zMuffinMan]

13. zMuffinMan - Cabd's gut is putting up weird flags.

cabd's gut sucks then

4. MafiaSSK- this matches an interesting meta-tell blackmailed from natirasha about ssk/does not match paradox-town-ssk

eh

he could be scum. i didn't like that the only thing he did about 7 or 8 pages in was ask a question that would have been answered if he'd read the thread, and nothing else.

[zMuffinMan]

she has her own reasons for putting you there

what reasons?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

[zMuffinMan]

instead of people thinking of it as you buddying him, they'd think of it as you elaborating "because I asked you to".

correct. that's what happened.

I'm assuming you have a scumread on wayne correct?

no. he's not a town read. i'm still trying to figure out whether he's being derptown or scum.

have you dropped your scum read on varsoon or something?

[zMuffinMan]

this is why you voted varsoon when you thought he was town?

You were gloating very much, and I figured that was the easiest way to get your attention.

[zMuffinMan]

ur a vry good player

[zMuffinMan]

Or, alternatively, it was muffin who told you that about Wayne's scumplay, since he was in that game too.

that's something i tend to talk about with everyone, because you know, it's an important part of my life and i feel the need to unnecessarily talk about wayne and that game at every opportunity.

how did you know?

[zMuffinMan]

that's kind of the point. no one would suspect you of buddying because that is what happened, when your true intent was buddying

ok. the much simpler explanation is what actually happened, though.

besides, you think varsoon is scum, don't you? so how would that make sense from your PoV?

Nope. Run me up. Your loss.

i thought you were iffy on morph. if they're scum and you're town, how would that be their loss?

[zMuffinMan]

Before the day is over is fine, but realize that sofitng and then revoking it is tantamount to a scumclaim.

no offense to pieguy, but i don't think he's the kind of player that's capable of lying in this way as scum. he probably is town here.

and i'd actually prefer he doesn't claim today if he isn't being run up. big purple writing has me paranoid about bad things happening with unnecessary claims.

>>>Important: There are eyes and ears everywhere. Flavor Claim at your own risk in this game.<<<

[zMuffinMan]

...

[zMuffinMan]

That’s called the “town” in some mafia games.

i'm a town read now? when did that happen?

[zMuffinMan]

13. zMuffinMan
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
10. thezmon221

Is there another BFF?

why is ghost scum?

I'm not really sure what you heard about that game, but whatever reputation was earned was shared rep for the most part.

he's referring to [REDACTED] fwiw

[zMuffinMan]

so is morph a town read now or just not a scum read?

[zMuffinMan]

answer the question

[zMuffinMan]

Ok, so igmeou. Better?

and what did this mean if it didn't mean you were at least considering them as scum?

[zMuffinMan]

ur a vry good player

[zMuffinMan]

what did i misrep about that conversation? that quote and the next suggest you were thinking morph scum there, no?

are they a town read of yours now?

[zMuffinMan]

OK. i'm not very good at talking to retarded kids, but i'll try my best to be understanding. let's try something else.

is there anything outside me "buddying" varsoon that makes you think i'm scum?

and is there anything outside that one quote by thezmon that makes you think thezmon scum?

is BRO a town read now?

[zMuffinMan]

don't sign up to games i'm in again, wayne.

if you're scum and consider doing what you're doing a tactic, then you're a dickhead. and if you're actually town, then you're legitimately the worst player i've played with on this site. worse than saki. worse than even deitykabuto, and he set the bar pretty fucking low.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah that's bullshit. you spent most of your time in xenogears interacting with AJ despite scum reading him from your replacement, and you were scumreading me there and still interacting with me in that game. e.g. this post where you both interact with me and call me scum, or this post shortly after it. you also interacted with ghostlin, and other people you were supposedly scum reading.

you need to die.

Unvote
Vote: waynegg

[zMuffinMan]

you want me to go through your whole Xenogears ISO and quote every time you interacted with a scum read, you lying piece of shit?

OK. mission accepted.

[zMuffinMan]

how come this doesn't count as interacting with a scumread?

where do you draw the line about "interacting"? 0.0

ignore the obvious contradiction, he's lying.

[zMuffinMan]

i think you're being deliberately unhelpful in this game because morph pointed out some meta thing they have on you, and you're paranoid about what it is, so you're trying to emulate whatever you think that meta thing they have on you is.

any insults i threw your way came after you were being deliberately unhelpful, so don't act like that has anything to do with it.

i literally don't have to put that much effort into multiquoting your interactions with scum reads when you spent half the game interacting with scum reads, wayne.

Spoiler:

Wayne, pretty sure those aren't cop claims, they're clears for other reasons. Let's not get the claims out quite yet if players aren't ready unless you think you've got a "guyinfreezer is soooo PR" kind of vibe going on again.

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

And yeah, lets kick scum butt and perhaps work on the friend thing in the process.

I don't see a reason for you to want to out AJ's role, tbf.

~

@NS: I'll get to your comment in a second.

When and hiw rarely have you ever seen town BP? There's already been suspicion on the AJ slot and I see no reason to not make the result public for others to chew on.

'If Skull is scum' is crazy weak for the theory we have here.

Thez, I know. I think Rach is the ideal lynch. All the major roots extend from her, and she hasn't proven anything useful. Mala will be incriminated, I get my lynch, and we then proceed to wreck the scum team.

AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

Then, can you explain this?

Whenever I read wayne's posts, I find myself asking, "is he confused, or am I?"

Im not confused. Been reading and taking notes since the game started

Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

Because WE said so.

I'm specifically asking Andy why he thinks that because I'm not on the same page. Nor do I believe you're town, so I'll wait for Andy, but thanks.

Mastin, why is Venmar town?

Because he is. That's as much as you're getting, and as much as you're ever getting.

Yeah. Not a good answer

This requires another spoiler. Inside, I have responses to FTL, Muffin, and kinda Mac...

Where's the love AJ?

___________________________________

Fixing the format

Why is AJ town?

I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it. Along with the fact AJ's been chasing down me along with others. I do think he's solidly town

So, you

are

scum...

No. I think he's town because he's hunting whether or not he's on the wrong or right rack. He's hunting.

~

I'm done replying to Mastin or Bro. They won't even knowledge that I might be a little town.

I haven't done just all AtE. I have given reads out if you like them or not, I have been hunting whether or not you disagree with it.

How is taking shots at a popular punching bag and paraphrasing what others have previously said and tunneling hunting?

That struck me that you were using Rach's scumminess to make it appear that Mala is scum (e.g. lining up lynches). Based on your definition, that's still how it comes across. "To make one appear guilty" isn't the same as "almost certainly guilty". To make someone

appear

to be guilty is more along the lines of framing someone whereas the other reflects more of a personal view. Pretty confident you're scum based off this. Using euphemisms like this to soften intent is pretty common when under pressure. If you're scum, I hope you don't feel like scum caught for the wrong reasons...

More AJ votes please.

Lol!

a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

How is what you quoted a euphemism?

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm saying that when you told me what the phrase meant to you, you said it was to make someone

appear

to be guilty. When applied to your statement you used a euphemism, "almost certainly guilty", to soften that. Now when called out for euphamizing your statement, you say you're using evidence (though what you pointed to really isn't evidence) to incriminate. And then you quote a statement of mine and call it a euphemism when it isn't, for what purpose I have no idea.

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm pointing out what you did that shows to you being lying about your intentions.

@AJ

One more question, please. It may seem silly, but I really need to know why you chose the Rubix Cube as your long term Avi?

Noooooooo! Multi format fail! Noooooooo!Third time the charm?

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!'

'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.[/quote]

i have something fun to claim

i'm Dominia Yikzor and i'm an inquisitor for the nissan alliance.

i had a cop power, but if I got 2 innocents, i lost the power. venmar investigated mac and tiphainedeath and got innocents on both, so I lost the cop power

I'm confused

The Inquisitor is a self-aligned role with aspects of both the Serial Killer and the Cult Leader. Its Night Action is simply its factional kill (like a Serial Killer); however, if for some reason the Inquisitor's victim survives the kill, the victim will instead have its alignment changed to match that of the Inquisitor. In this sense, it is a Serial Killer that has a chance to pick up allies.
The existence of an Inquisitor usually suggests that there are multiple protective abilities in play during the game so as to allow the possibility of recruitments.
As always, care should be taken with recruitment, as Inquisitor is generally able to recruit Anti-Town players and recruited players keep their former abilities. For more information, see Cult. The recruited players do not gain access to the factional kill if the Inquisitor dies.

Even more interesting with Venmar's PGO claim. Please help me out of this confused state...

But inquisitor isn't cop. It's a factional kill and alignment changer. Mason also doesn't make them both town.

Flavor isn't really indicative of roles... Look at Andrius' flip (I'm not quite sure what her role was, but it wasn't standard).

15. RachMarie, Krelian,

Mad Scientist of the Solaris Empire

, was lynched Day 1.
17. Sound of Silence, Seraphita,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 1.
11. Saki, Sigurd Harcourt,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 1.
13. nickthename, Maria Balthasar,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was lynched Day 2.
3. BeautyAndTheBeast, Emeralda Kasim,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 2.
12. Malakittens, Miang Hawwa,

Ancient Seductress of the Solaris Empire

, was lynched Day 3.
9. mastin2, Bartholomew Fatima,

Pirate Regent of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 3.

1. Andy hasn't flipped.

2. Who's talking about flavor?? I'm talking about roles. Everything bolded was their role, not their flavor.

Mad Scientist= assigns passive roles
VT= duh
Ancient Seductress= Roleblocker and 1x redirect
Pirate Regent= Mason and 1x JK

An Inquisitor is a defined role, which is factional kill and cult leader. All you peeps trying to make it sound like I'm talking about flavor are pushing wifom.

pedit solidly, huh?

The vast majority of scumbags aren't Batman villains, Varsoon.

Crumbs can be found on Venmar's first post of the day on days 2 and 3. Spoiler: they're not subtle, at all.
Day 2: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5269791
Day 3: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5309208

And scum didn't NK the slot because... I mean, I know its in scum's best interest to leave town investigative roles in the game and all, so if you have an explanation that would be nice to share...

also, if you want, i can go back over venmar's posts and point out all of the places he crumbed his role. i have most of them already because i pmed bork about it N2 when i ranted to him about my thoughts on the game. i am very sure that he was either what he claims to be, or he's factional scum (i.e. not a traitor) who planned it with his partners. and i'm leaning towards the former based on his play making sense as town and also based on how fucking elaborate it would have to be for venmar to have co-ordinated that as factional scum.

Given the crumbs you linked in 4380, how would this be remotely "elaborate" to do as scum? Let me illustrate...

Venmar... Hey gaiz, I'm gonna crumb investgatr so blatantly noonez can miss it. Before suspicion getz on me we snuffz one of my "innocents" to givez me to get town credz.

The other scumz... Yayz. Gud planz!!!

And scum didn't NK the slot because... I mean, I know its in scum's best interest to leave town investigative roles in the game and all, so if you have an explanation that would be nice to share...

because he claimed PGO and scum ignored the obvcrumbs. see AJ's response to the revelation today, for example.

ONE OF HIS OBV CRUMBS WAS TO CONSIDER HIM TO BE CLAIMING LIKE MATTP, AKA LYING ABOUT HIS ROLE. Try again...

it's elaborate because (1) why PGO claim at all? if the aim was to drop cop crumbs, why was a PGO claim necessary? (2) there could have actually been a real cop, and considering how blatant those crumbs are, he'd need to explain it (3) why venmar instead of a stronger scum player? (4) it was risky because PGOs are potential policy lynches like millers (though policy lynching isn't all that common anymore) (5) he would have had to tell his scum buddies about it, and have them tell antihero about it, etc etc

you're actually a moron if you think this is more likely to come from scum than town.

1. I covered that in my Venmar spoiler ~ KEEP TOWN PR AWAY AT NIGHT.

2. Great, then scum would know real cop D1 from cc.

3. Your question answers itself. If he's found out, he dies and the stronger scum lives.

4. I've never seen PGO policy lynched and only twice on Millers. Not that risky because I've seen that play a lot.

5. Scum QT, one whole sentence. It's not as complicated as you're trying to make it sound...

My small list of suspicion:

1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
7. Ghostlin
20. Antihero
21. zMuffinMan

you're actually a moron if you think this is more likely to come from scum than town.

And this by itself...

A one for one on a cop isn't quite the same as a one for one on other roles. Since you didn't have any disagreement with the other points I'll just assume you're 80% wrong

2. Great, then scum would know real cop D1 from cc.

this is so fucking moronic it's not even funny. scum never want a 1 for 1 trade, especially early game, and especially not when there could be protective roles. holy shit.

the rest of your responses aren't much better. your reasoning is that you can think of an absurd situation in which he would do it as scum, so therefore he could be scum. if you're not policy lynching PGO claims sooner or later, then you're not playing correctly, and if the fucking idea was to use PGO as a fucking cover against town PRs then him claiming today makes no sense.

i shouldn't have to explain the fucking obvious. and now i'm going to sleep.

Oh so some weak rebuttal? Ok.

It's only absurd if you think scum play with no strategy, because this is a very simple straight forward strategy with little thought necessary to pull it off.

I'm not going to take advice on the wrong and right ways to play from someone who is 80+% wrong! especially when more and more I think you're scum. Even on a hypothetical PL on a conf town PGO (note HYPOTHETICAL WITH BIG FLASHY LIGHTS SO YOU CAN MISS IT BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE THATS THE CASE HERE) reals of scumotivation.

It would make perfect sense if the replacement read my Venmar spoiler where I shot that claim to hell and back. In fact, it would be a knee jerk, "well crap, now I gotta claim something and hope everyone buys it" because I gave great reasoning not to believe the claim and a fake claim always looks bad. As town I would have expected the replacement to keep mum because who gives a flip what a single player thinks. As scum I would expect him to do exactly what he did ~ give another claim before anyone latched onto the evidence I put forward.

1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
7. Ghostlin
20. Antihero
21. zMuffinMan

Why are Nacho and Desp not in this list?

But not Andy? Hmm. Nacho because I've never felt he was scum. My last list just consisted of the lynch pool of those people weren't saying was confirmed. Desp because I forgot. Think that's a slip right there BRO.

wayne ignoring nacholynch makes me suspicious

Vote: nachomamma

this should happen
unless you want to lynch me first and figure this out the hard way

So you think AJ is town?

I don't have anything new to contribute.
So this is me posting.
Nacholynch pls.

If you can show me where and why Nacho is scum, and it makes sense. I don't see it.

So

AJ
BRO
Andy

Does anyone think there's six scum?

That would be a waste if you're town. But it kinda sounds like a challenge. Always like a challenge. Tell you what...if you get run up to L-1 I'll call your bluff.

*He's been underwhelming all game. By Day 4, I expect some kind of push. In Xenosaga he was all over the place. Here..he makes a few points here or there, but he's not steering, nor is he leading from anywhere. This isn't Nacho--at least not Town Nacho.

*There are some who have said 'give Nacho time and he'll pick up'. It's Day 4. If he's not producing now (and he's not) he's not gonna.

*This one's difficult to follow, but here goes:

Nacho, quite publicly, caught me as scum because I can't fake logical Town thought well

. He's hedged his bets (particularly with his interactions with Mastin, but even how he's treated people like me who he's said earlier he wanted to 'interact more with' and really hasn't) and he's produced low enough content to kinda squeak by.

*The AJ/BRO/Des case is an excellent example of all the above. Nacho can make a weak non-committal push without a case. As Town, even lazy Town, Nacho has no reason not to release the case. As scum, he has reason to hold off to see if his wagon will dissolve and we'll bite. I'm 90% sure he's bussing one buddy there for cred, and 75% sure sure he's bussing both for cred. In fact, if scum don't cross bus they'll die.

*Nacho has made the argument that he's done nothing that would indicate he was scum. The reverse is painfully also true. There's nothing to indicate that Nacho's town, either. It's a hollow and somewhat misleading argument by someone who I expected to be higher key and give a shit, and has promised to give a shit multiple days now.

*This is not a reason why I think Nacho is scum. However, a number of people if you analyze the night kills knew Nacho's playstyle. The remaining two with history I know about are myself and Andrius. Now, my problem with this 'argument', is it leads to an orgy of evidence wifomic problem. (Look up 'orgy of evidence' in TVTropes). Scum could be killing people with a history with Nacho to make us fucking look there, but Nacho's still a good lynch DESPITE that. Or even BECAUSE of it.

Ok, so all the purple is the same reason ~ he's been apathetic. Problem with that is in all his recent games I've read he's been apathetic.

The last one is meta (which is still pretty much the apathetic thing), and I'll give that a lot of people are 100% sold on meta. I'm not one of those because what do you do when someone's playstyle changes drastically? And then an orgy of evidence usually indicates just the opposite of what that evidence seems to point to.

Iffy meta and apathy given his recent games aren't enough to sway me from the town read virtually all of his posts on Aug 20th, among others, have firmly planted in my mind.

The bold really needs to be explained though...

That would be a waste if you're town. But it kinda sounds like a challenge. Always like a challenge. Tell you what...if you get run up to L-1 I'll call your bluff.

Girls, girls. You're both fucking pretty.

Seriously, neither of you are scum, and it's a fucking waste either way. Andy, you know Wayne's into fringe theory from the 'saga game. Wayne, Andrius isn't scum. Fuck, I'm not scum. Run me up to L-1, and I guarantee no one in this town will fucking lynch me.

I've had Andy town since I started reading D1 (though his first wall glows with the same glow as his first in LotR), but I'm not going to back down from a challenge. If he's town and wants to take another townie down with him, let it be on his head.

Now a legit reason from this game to see some scum in him (aside from his first wall since as I said I don't weigh meta heavily). He claims to have a veng role that can kill only town while being town. I can see that. What I can't see is him going on with the 'lynch me!' campaign knowing that if he's telling the truth, scum would never hammer because it would out them. That means ONLY town would risk lynching him if they think he's lying. That leads into motivation.

From a town mindset, where's the motivation to continue his self push? Why would he be pushing to take a town with him if he's really town? It's only his recent stuff that's seemed scummy enough for me to hammer if he gets to L-1 and call his bluff.

@Andrius

I see what you're saying now. Like I said, I've had you as town since D1. Please don't give me a reason to lose faith...

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Pretty sure that's L-1

why AJ, nacho? at best, he's bulletproof scum. at worst, he could be bulletproof town.

why not, say, Desperado, if you really believe the scum team is full of PRs? he could have an active PR that would, in some way, fuck with town.

Because AJ is all but confirmed scum and POE will be better tomorrow

VOTE: AJ

If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

What plan is that?

To have me claim so that FTL could see if I'd lie about whether I'm vanilla when there's a vanilla cop in play.

You sure it's not a scum bussing plan that was hatched in your QT and that there was some sort of disagreement with?

And how stupid do you think I fucking am if the answer to the first question is Yes?

Scum never say anything like that

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

And this is has to do with this game...?

Apparently. This is the only game I'm playing with him

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

Grr! I can't believe I missed the Randy Savage!

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

ebwop: actually, it's not just the possibility that RM's role interfered with town roles in some way. RM's role

did

interfere with town roles in some way. we just aren't sure how at the moment.

Umm...she was lynched day one...you have some explaining to do because there's been no indication she was able to do anything.

Walk me through what here says "I know the traitor is on the scum side"

It's the only thing that makes sense where a supposed BP is told, in no unequivocal terms, that a Traitor exists in this game. I wast told there was a Traitor in this game. Was anybody else told there was a Traitor in this game? Stinks of something the informed minority might know, but other than that...

Let's try something...

@bork: would you be so kind as to spoiler a role or two in this game to me as well, other than mafia/scum, VT, and what's already flipped? Pretty please

nacho might be town if aj scumflips.

Don't think like that.

I'll carry that torch for you tomorrow if you fall!

4193
Faith shattered

VOTE: Andy

Oh yes, that incredibly town-looking counterwagon...

Hey Wayne, I'm gonna be fairly absent until Thursday/Friday. I have some stuff I want to bounce off of you.

I'm in, if I'm still in.

i was going to make a post about how much you've been had this game, waynegg

And see, that's the beautiful thing about how play. I lead without looking like it. Since I've replaced in, I've lead 2 scum lynches from my D1 reads, all while looking like I wasn't doing anything. Kinda like I'm doing right now.

Bro

The fact that you've been in both of my scumgames and think that I'm scum here is baffling to me...

You always look the same to me so I've given up trying to actually read you. POE suggests you as scum. Nothing to do with your posting.

So, what did you want to talk about?

lol @ you thinking you led the Mala lynch.

Mala was obvscum from long before you replaced in (was obvscum from nhammen's first post, but I digress...), and it was mollie who prevented that lynch from going through day 2. Y'know, before you replaced in.

You get the bulk of the credit for Aj, though.

pedit: I wanted to talk to you about Anti and FTL. I'm about to go to sleep, though. Like I said, busy through Thursday, can't really stick around for immense amounts of time.

As far as Mala goes, yes she was already a sinking ship. Doesn't mean I didn't push her (in that special way where I do the opposite when I see no one wants to work with me, but I digress). I feel FTL. Until today I didn't really feel anti. His recentness is really bad though. I have D1 on both, but Venmar went back and forth across my list.

When are you gonna be around on Thursday? Well make a date.

Wayne I realized that our date is stupid. I've already said all I have to say about the Anti slot, and us talking about the likelihood of a gambit at this point is dumb.

VOTE: Desp

Ok

VOTE: BRO

So, I have no reason to not think antihero is scum.

except for the godfather and the crumbs and clearing two townies

Explain better. I don't know what you're talking about.

I like Venmar quite a bit, actually

And a cop with gf just wifom'd the town, so I can see a mod wifoming the scum. Like I said, Nacho can be lynched without. E.

Scum clear town all the time. I've never been in or read a game where they didn't. Great for town cred.

But, let's just go with your reasoning Nacho. Why are we on you and not FTL?

Yeah, so,ermines it doesn't. I totally agree with that. But I know my D1 reads are in general better than at any other point in the game. TF (cabd) can describe to you how I work.

so... what... you think it's a sign of weakness to admit your thought process might have lead you to the wrong conclusion?

...and don't think that I'm judging you here, either. This is a widely held belief that few people will admit to having. I myself fall into this trap. frequently.

Nope. I flaw more than I hit. But Ihjt scum 40ish% which is still solid. Yours isn't the only name left from D1. It's just at the top.

Promise.

What kind of scum game is it that votes off his entire team?

Promise.

What kind of scum game is it that votes off his entire team?

I promise you that Antihero is town.

That's fine. I said it was personal. I'll just be quiet and hammer. Tell me who and when.

UNVOTE:

pedit ok Andy VOTE: BRO

yeah, but once you put aside all the paranoia, all the PR claims make sense.

Andy claiming supersaint and then inviting people to lynch him? not likely a scum move, especially given that it's actually still on the table

Cue paranoia.

How perfect of a scum claim would it be for Andy to claim exactly what he claimed as scum. TSS that only vengeful a on town? Perfect sense for town to not lynch. Perfect sense for scum to leave hi in the game. Perfect claim if he can sell it, which apparently he has. Perfect. Andy does the unexpected often. See LotR. He came with straight up scum agenda that only third party would clearly pick up on, thus outing them. Do you have any idea how hard I had to work to get THAT lynch to go through.

I want to discuss the motivation behind Andy's claim before we end this day.

UNVOTE:

TSS that only vengeful a on town? Perfect sense for town to not lynch.

he claimed supersaint at 14 people alive, which is literally "lynch me I'm a free lynch"
it would be the worst scum fakeclaim i've seen in my entire life.

How would it be the worst? He conditioned it with taking a townie with him if town hammered and leaving scum alive if scum hammered. That takes the incentive out of the town to lynch him. That also gives incentive for scum to keep him alive. I'll take bro at his word to hammer if it gets there.

VOTE: Andy

execute same plan tomorrow.

I would be hammering Andrius tomorrow.
Both things have the same result.

If Andy scum: Andy gets to live untouched.

Until tomorrow, when we lynch him.

The two things are completely equal.

Except you could renig for *reasons* or have been killed, etc. today we have bro who will be speed lynched if he doesn't follow through on hammer. Andy WIFOM is gone and we get to odd numbers.

Andy is very likely town thanks to his claim and his play. BRO is not as likely town.

And wouldn't that just seal his fate tomorrow without it hanging on a m/l to XYLO? I realize you and Andy decided early on to go out in a blaze of glory with each other and all, but the lynch Andy to get nacho just makes more sense. And notscience is voting BRO...

even if you claim half of these aren't interactions with scum reads, you spent a lot of time interacting with them. but i tried to make sure to pick out quotes from players you

said

you were scum reading, or had in your scum lists. there are others i probably could have pointed to as well, but i left out interactions with players before you claimed a scum read on them (e.g. interactions with me after you'd just replaced in)

you even made a date with BRO to discuss things when you were apparently scum reading him at the time.

[zMuffinMan]

also i only said you're a dickhead

if you're scum

so it's kind of lol you're making a big deal out of that

[zMuffinMan]

Morph, have you gotten what you were looking for yet?

why are you so overly concerned about some meta thing they have on you.

and yes, i'm totally aware you can't answer this post or my last 2 posts without contradicting yourself, so hey, isn't that funny?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't particularly care if it's infantile (although i'd argue that most infants probably don't have those words in their vocabulary, so you're wrong about that). you're deliberately being a prick in this game, and i

know

it has nothing to do with "interacting with scum reads" because you do interact with people you're scum reading (or at least you did, several times, in xenogears). so there must be some other reason you're being deliberately unhelpful and avoiding answering my questions, and i think it has to do with some meta thing you're worried about (which you've now brought up twice, first in 374 then again in 507). i think you being deliberately unhelpful here is part of you trying to emulate whatever it is you think morph sees in town-you that they weren't previously seeing here.

but whatever. i'm going to step away from this game for a while and cool down.

i probably shouldn't have called you a retarded lying piece of shit, but meh.

[zMuffinMan]

even if i were to accept that you had D1 townreads on those 4 people (when you weren't in the game) and that this somehow meant you were

always

reading them as town (lol), even while voting to lynch some of them (lol), the fact that there are still conversations with your scum reads means you were interacting with your scum reads. so, uh, yeah, that kind of proves my point, no?

i'm also assuming i'm meant to ignore the obvious interaction with me here, right? or is this also leading me?

[zMuffinMan]

please lynch wayne
please lynch wayne
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[zMuffinMan]

basically. i want to lynch wayne.

dayvig is also acceptable.

thanks in advance

[zMuffinMan]

can someone wayne is townreading ask him to expand on all of his current reads?

[zMuffinMan]

Attention players of Mini 1515,

For each hour that goes by that wayne is still alive, I will kill a kitten with my bare hands. I don't want to do this, but you're going to force my hand.

Think of the kittens and do what is right.

[zMuffinMan]

kitten #1 dies in 50 minutes

Spoiler:

don't make me do this

[zMuffinMan]

nailing 50% of the scum in a newbie game is rather admirable. gotta give him credit where credit is due.

[zMuffinMan]

i really don't care whether or not his reads have been somewhat accurate in past games. most people in this game can probably boast something similar.

i don't think he's town here, so it doesn't matter.

Nor have you since provided any reasons.

heh

[zMuffinMan]

i asked you to talk about your reasons for thinking i'm scum because the sole reason you've given ("buddying varsoon") is something you should know i do as town (especially if you read D2 of xenogears, where all i did was argue against the nick lynch and called the reasons for nick being scum shit). not only that, but the specific instance you're referring to here is something pieguy asked me to do. i don't think you're really bad enough to think that talking about something i was asked to talk about is scummy. and i don't think you actually have any good reason for thinking i'm scum.

so i asked you to expand on your reads.

but you're not going to do that because you don't have good reasons.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh. So first it was "buddying? How the hell am I buddying?" And now it's " ooh huh! BUUDYING! Yeah, I do that as town too..."

you actually don't know what buddying means, but what you're referring to as "buddying" is something i do as town, something you've seen me do as town. so yeah, trying to use it as your sole reason for thinking i'm scum is bullshit.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, for the viewers at home, can you quote where i said anything remotely similar to that first quote?

just so they know you're not bullshitting

[zMuffinMan]

lol

i just realised this is what you meant to write in 575

absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence

hahahahahahaha

yeah you totally have legitimate reasons for thinking i'm scum, you just don't feel the need to talk about it.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm up to kitten #20 now.

i'm a monster. please, people, think of the kittens. save kitten #20. i don't want to have to do this.

Spoiler:

[zMuffinMan]

...

[zMuffinMan]

Prod dodge. Post later.

this will happen eventually and it will be the most amazing post that was ever posted.

just wait.

[zMuffinMan]

morph,

save the kittens?

[zMuffinMan]

But but but muffin-kun; I'm scared. I hear the first time hurts?

are you iffy on wayne being scum?

He can fake the craziness a bit, but not in ways like this.

you really think asking for a cop claim is something he'd find difficult to do as scum? this is what made you change your mind about him?

[zMuffinMan]

Later.
I'll read later.

haha, i sincerely doubt that

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think any third party role really counts as a "scum" role. it was both antitown and antiscum.

[zMuffinMan]

it was also antitown in terms of the specific game mechanics (needed to keep ring in play, needed to get ring and keep it for self, self-preservation, etc) but yes, it didn't require killing anyone but the other antitown factions to win.

anything that happened in the way of scumhunting in that game probably was genuine scumhunting.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't know what your scum meta looks like

but this isn't similar to how you played in xenogears

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think anything from that game can really be used as "scum meta". i wouldn't call it "town meta", either.

if it's purely about scum hunting style, then i guess that's in line with your town meta? i didn't really pay attention to your ISO in that game outside of scanning it for the claim, so i don't really know what BRO is referring to.

[zMuffinMan]

on?

[zMuffinMan]

night 2 on watcher

what does the "on" mean? and why are you claiming so early?

[zMuffinMan]

what do you thinks going to happen, muffin?

i dunno. my first thought was scum could have a flavour vig (similar to con mafia) or flavour vanillariser (some way of partially or fully nullifying roles based on flavour) or some other way to gain an advantage by knowing role flavour (e.g. unable to vote, or hated, or something).

in any case, i don't think anyone should be flavour claiming this game.

also that only refers to flavour claims, so im sure claiming will be fine.

*shrug* i'd prefer no claim from pieguy either way, unless he's being run up.


@wayne,

why did you feel pressured to claim at L-3?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: mafiaSSK

[zMuffinMan]

hey morph,

what do you current reads look like?

it feels like you guys have been taking a back seat approach to this game and sort of going with the flow for most of it

i'm not seeing any sort of strong questioning/stances i'm used to seeing from you

[zMuffinMan]

I'm really surprised Wayne claim under so little pressure if he's actually town.

the explanation in #653 kinda, sorta makes sense if you squint really hard.

i'm nowhere near sold on him being town, but i don't really want to deal with him today.

what makes you think SSK is scum rather than lazytown/can't keep uptown?

i'm kinda poeing from town reads atm, and i really didn't like his second post - the only question he asks is a question to varsoon that woulda been answered if he'd actually read anything - felt really out of place.

[zMuffinMan]

btw i'm pretty sure TNE is town here. or at least his play here is totally unlike the play from when i was scum with him.

[zMuffinMan]

pie displayed some fairly detailed knowledge of the LoTR game mechanics.

er btw this is wrong. he didn't display anything outside of what was probably a guess from reading the rules of the setup, and he was wrong about the mechanic for the most part.

i skimmed over the conversation earlier so i didn't notice it before, but yeah, this is plain wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

Bork had a delayed PR in his last game.

no he didn't?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, i totally missed that somehow. thought mac was a regular joat. that's actually a really cool role.

who do you think is scum (outside of ssk)?

[zMuffinMan]

I'm scumreading [PA] and townreading Ghostlin

where does the scum read on PA come from?

And on SSK, there's nothing TO be pinged. But I fail to see how the lack of content is alignment-indicative from him.

what do you think about my point on his second post feeling out of place? even apart from that, he'd probably be in my scum list just by pure poe at this point. i have too many town reads.

13. zMuffinMan

we're 30 pages in and you're still not town-reading me. you even left me out of your big waffle-wall completely.

do you really find it this difficult to read me?

[zMuffinMan]

@pieguy,

i've already gone over it a couple times (you can just ctrl+f my ISO for "ssk") but 8 pages into the game, no comments on the game, no sign he's read the game, and the only question he asks is why varsoon's vote is on pieguy. if he'd been reading the game, he'd already know the answer, and if he hadn't been reading the game, then this is a really, really out of place question to ask.

[zMuffinMan]

exactly

[zMuffinMan]

... no it wasn't

[zMuffinMan]

i'm talking about mafiaSSK being scum, not varsoon, just so we're on the same page here.

[zMuffinMan]

honestly, i think that's more of a habit than a tell

[zMuffinMan]

let someone answer their own questions and their own heat.

i already held back on responding to 755/756

[zMuffinMan]

UNVOTE

until Cabd and I have a chance to talk about this morning's posts.

has this happened yet?

[zMuffinMan]

It isn't the least bit concerning to you that you've gotten so many townreads on so many of the stronger players, and have the weaker players as scum via POE?

i'm actually in the process of resetting my reads, because i know i had too many town reads.

where i stand right now is

town: mastin, varsoon, GP, psychlone, mac

i didn't like pieguy's entrance to the game, but his reactions to morph's attack on him looked townish and some of the recent exchanges with me looked town. i *think* TNE is town here - i'm kind of just leaving him in my townpile for now on gut and his play here is virtually the opposite of what i remember from playing scum with him (he was less involved, more active lurking, didn't try to create any ripples at all, non-committal in reads). thez's more recent posts have made me feel better about him. wayne i'm still a little iffy on but i don't really wanna deal with him today.

so i'm looking at {mafiaSSK, morph, BRO} atm.

i don't like anything mafiaSSK has done in this game. i don't know how you're not seeing eye to eye with me on mafiaSSK's posts so far.

it feels like BRO's been coasting through the game so far and the scumhunting he's done has been really weak. i also didn't like the way he basically sheeped me onto the wayne and mafiaSSK wagons.

i get pretty much the same feeling from morph as i do from BRO. the scumhunting they've done so far has either been weak or felt really forced. also they've been almost bipolar in their read on me and i feel like that's been going with the flow of the game more than genuine trouble reading me.

[zMuffinMan]

On SSK: Also gut-town, reinforced by me not liking the push against him.

gut-town based on what?

Think morph's town

why?

There is no sarcasm, only waynegg inconsistency

nah, it was pretty fucking obvious i was doing it ironically.

Normally you telegraph your votes pretty hard, but that didn't really happen here. Why'd you vote SSK here?

i think i tend not to telegraph my votes, actually, but the reasons for the vote really should be obvious

This was the point where I expected you to transition from a tne vote to a pieguy vote, but you kept that useless tne vote on. Why?

i was voting thez at the time, not TNE. and why would i change my vote to pie just because of that? thez was the larger wagon at the time (four votes? compared to the lone varsoon vote on pie), and i still thought thez was scum at the time.

Why would waynegg lie about something this ridiculous as scum?

i was wary of him trying to fake his "town meta" because of the meta tell morph were claiming they had on him.

[zMuffinMan]

I love how people be hatin on the lurkers.

have you read the game yet?

[zMuffinMan]

There will most likely be an incoming reads list update in an hour or two.

[zMuffinMan]

then why are you voting someone you're "null-scum" on instead of someone you actually think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

I want more time to sort the pairings.

you didn't have that issue when voting nick in xenogears

why do you think those 4 "look bad"? and what are you doing to sort them?

[zMuffinMan]

Both instances make me think it's TvS

i really hate statements like this, unless you actually have a scum read on one and a town read on the other. e.g. if you think one of mastin/morph is town and awkwardly posturing, why couldn't they

both

be town awkwardly posturing?

[zMuffinMan]

quick post before i head out today

On gut.

i meant, which posts gave you this gut feeling? or is it not based on his posts?

@zmuffin: what are your thoughts on morph's 837

i don't really have thoughts on it. it's a fairly alignment-neutral post.

[zMuffinMan]

Lean Town

Varsoon
mastin2
zMuffinMan
pieguyn

Null

thenewearth
Mac
Psychlone
waynegg
Ghostly Penguin

Leaning Scum

BROseidon
MafiaSSK
thezmon211

for someone that claims to be far more efficient at townhunting than scumhunting, you sure have a lot of null reads

[zMuffinMan]

if the mafiassk wagon goes nowhere, i'll probably join the bro wagon.

oh, and i'm not gonna be around much for the next 48ish hours.

[zMuffinMan]

catching up in a bit

i take it i missed stuff

Spoiler:

[zMuffinMan]

I'm somewhat alarmed that I don't have at least one strong town read.

However, based on this morning's content, it looks like that's about to change.

did your town reads from earlier in the game weaken or were they never strong?

which posts between 849 and 948 changed your mind about mac? (so much so that mac is now solidly town for you when you were apparently null on him before)

While I think he's scum, he's far from certainly-scum, and I want us to all have time to analyze his wagon from both perspectives. If he's scum, who his scumbuddies are (such as if they're bussing, and if so, who), if he's town, who the scumteam is (and how many if any are on the wagon).

[5] MafiaSSK (zMuffinMan, BROseidon, Psychlone, thezmon221, Morph the Cat)

2 scum in those names? it's possible there's only 1 given how many people were softly supporting that wagon without actually jumping on it. i'm guessing BRO is one and if there's another it's in the late supporters {thez, morph}. i didn't like the way either of them slid onto the wagon.

[zMuffinMan]

i want to lynch BRO

thez might be scum, but i think i have a compelling counter-argument for why a BRO lynch is better

Spoiler:

BRO's ISO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . read it

Vote: BRO

[zMuffinMan]

actually, the more i look at it, the more i think thez's reaction to the dayvig was town. i don't see thez-scum thinking it's a good idea to discredit someone who has claimed dayvig and isn't particularly fond of him. he'd be walking a fucking fine line hoping pieguy takes a shot at mafiaSSK over him.

also

I'd like to move thezmon up, but I don't really feel like I can justify it beyond "gut" right now

was this based on particular posts or just an overall gut feeling?

[zMuffinMan]

wat

[zMuffinMan]

discrediting meaning calling pieguy scum and claiming the gambit was scum motivated, etc etc, and basically all-round antagonising pieguy

not calling the shot fake

[zMuffinMan]

reading after sleep

[zMuffinMan]

the entire method of catching up is scum-oriented

to be fair, i don't think this style is alignment-indicative. i recall having the same issue with the way he caught up in xenogears D2 (the post he wrote during N1).

the thing i don't like about BRO's posts is the amount of nothing in his posts prior to just recently. the series of post-responses he was producing earlier in the game had very little game-relevant content and he said he was busy "finding scum" but never actually looked to be trying to find any scum. also the way he sheeped me onto both the wayne and mafiassk wagons irked me.

wait wtf, GP wasn't even on SSK?

In that case, I really don't like how he was saying he was suspicious of SSK

the same could be said of a number of people (in fact, apart from... wayne? maybe? the entire game seemed to be softly supporting the mafiassk wagon/vig)

Ugh I better not be wrong on my Ghost read, or I'll be pissed. This makes more sense than I want it to make.

bad

Gonna OMGUS that.

VOTE: Mac

bad

[zMuffinMan]

k

VOTE: TNE Hey guys he claimed scum, we should lynch him ^_^

really?

[zMuffinMan]

I'd also like to know where said townread came from

iirc, it initially came from PA's 95, but i also like ghostlin's first posts in this game.

i don't remember much they've done lately. i keep forgetting they're in this game

[zMuffinMan]

you keep mentioning my read on you in xenogears as though me being wrong once means i'm wrong every time i think you're scum

[zMuffinMan]

this is what is worrying me most about the hydra. I know penguin isn't as prolific in thread as most, but ghostlin's been a non-presence so far.

i'm pretty sure the lack of activity is unrelated to this game.

Your threats don't scare me, scum

You know, I'll be honest. I get the vibe from BROseidon that he's trying to paint our fight as townVtown.

i don't see that. but i do think a lot of BRO's responses to you look fake. i know he's going to come in here and say 1221 was a joke or whatever, but that and other responses he's given to you just feel like he's putting on a show.

to be fair, i don't think this style is alignment-indicative. i recall having the same issue with the way he caught up in xenogears D2 (the post he wrote during N1).

the thing i don't like about BRO's posts is the amount of nothing in his posts prior to just recently. the series of post-responses he was producing earlier in the game had very little game-relevant content and he said he was busy "finding scum" but never actually looked to be trying to find any scum. also the way he sheeped me onto both the wayne and mafiassk wagons irked me.

Yeah this sums it up pretty well.

you've had BRO in your scum list for a while now, and you agree with points raised against him, but you've shown no indication you're willing to vote him. why?

Or we can JUST lynch this. Because it's soooooooooooo improbable to have more than one scum read...

i'm starting to think my initial impression of TNE could have been wrong, but i'm not seeing the way he's pushing BRO as a bus, so either i'm wrong about BRO or TNE is derptown. what's your current read on BRO?

And what I think is the most important question of all of this: Where the fuck are muffin and thez?

not here, obviously. do you really think this is an important question?

zMuffin is usually really vocal, too.

i know, right? i've been busy this last week or so, and unfortunately it's going to remain that way until the weekend. i *may* have a little more time tomorrow to do stuff. no promises, though.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm pretty sure mastin is town here. mac is also town. GP i dunno.

also, keeping track of this for my own purposes

Spoiler:

bottom of p49
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[3] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon, waynegg)
[2] Varsoon (Mac, pieguyn)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)

[3] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221, Morph the Cat)

---

bottom of p50
[3] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon, waynegg)
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[3] Varsoon (Mac, pieguyn, Morph the Cat)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)

[2] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221)

---

bottom of p51
[4] Varsoon (Mac, pieguyn, Morph the Cat, waynegg)
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)

[2] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221)

---

bottom of p52
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[1] Varsoon (Mac)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)
[1] Ghostly Penguin (pieguyn)

[4] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221, Morph the Cat, waynegg)

---

bottom of p53
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[1] Varsoon (Mac)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)
[1] Ghostly Penguin (pieguyn)

[4] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221, Morph the Cat, waynegg)

---

bottom of p54
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[1] Varsoon (Mac)
[2] Mac (waynegg, Varsoon)
[1] Ghostly Penguin (pieguyn)

[3] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221, Morph the Cat)

---

current
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[2] Mac (waynegg, Varsoon)
[1] Ghostly Penguin (pieguyn)
[1] thenewearth (Ghostly Penguin)

[3] Not Voting (thezmon221, Morph the Cat, Mac)

[zMuffinMan]

mastin said he's town, and i don't think he would lie about something like that

[zMuffinMan]

GP i dunno.

nah GP is still town, i think



@wayne,

why is morph in your untouchables list?

[zMuffinMan]

@varsoon,

the activity stuff aside, what issue/s do you actually have with me?

[zMuffinMan]

you're still reading BRO as town?

[zMuffinMan]

nothing really. it's a pretty meh post overall and one of the reasons i don't like his responses to mastin. did you think it looked town or something?

[zMuffinMan]

what do you think of TNE's posts p44/45?

[zMuffinMan]

Can you give me your big BRO case?

i've gone over this a few times already, but the gist of it is that his catchup spam earlier in the game lacked any real scum hunting, i didn't like the way he sheeped me onto the thez and mafiaSSK wagons, and his recent responses to mastin feel fake.

why don't you talk about why you think it's his town game?

I think "lack of content" is a really shallow reason for pushing on him. there's content in there but you have to look to see it and I think it's obvious from his posting what his reads were.

it's not about "lack of content" so much as... empty posts? like the scum hunting he's doing is just surface-scratching stuff and there's no

real

effort to look for scum in any of his posts. yeah, i can tell what his reads are, but i don't think the way he arrived at those reads, or the way he's approaching the game in general, looks genuine.

what do you think about all his posts like 1201?

1201 was a town post. here's the thing. if you strip away the arrogance in mastin calling himself obvtown, you're left with mastin (from the pov of mastin-town) trying to figure out why psychlone isn't reading him as town in this game, when nacho has enough experience with mastin that he should be able to differentiate between mastin's town play and mastin's scum play. you can call that mastin talking out of his ass and claiming he's obvtown or whatever, but at that point mastin didn't really have a wagon on him or anything, and i don't think him calling himself town was so much of a defense as a trying-to-figure-out-what's-going-on-with-psychlone thing. which is why it's a town post.

also i was half-joking when i said i don't think mastin would lie about being town (we've already established i'm not very funny). but i really do think the over-the-top way he called himself obvtown here is something he's more likely to do as town than scum - it's hard to fake that kind of confidence, especially when people are calling you scummy and voting you for it. i'm really not sure why so many took issue with it. iirc he did something similar in xenogears (except instead of calling himself obvtown, he called himself conftown) and i don't remember anyone in this playerlist thinking he was scummy for it then.

[zMuffinMan]

hey morph

did you ever look into TNE's meta? iirc it was something you said you were doing at some point in this game

[zMuffinMan]

if you can provide meta that suggests that BRO never does this as town

even if i had the time to actually do the meta research, i probably wouldn't.

it's really not about "effort". i don't know how to explain it any better than i've already tried to. :/

[zMuffinMan]

not going to be around much between now and deadline

will try to follow thread on phone and/or post late night, but the next 48 hours is not good for me

if the BRO wagon doesn't happen, i'll shift my vote to a wagon i agree with, but i still prefer a BRO lynch

[zMuffinMan]

yeah i see bro's wall here very similar to this wall from gears. pretty sure he's town.

similar in what way and why would that make him town?

as for the ssk wagon, i don't see where you pulled that from. i cant find no sheeping of you from bro onto that wagon.

then what do you make of his SSK vote with no prior mention of finding SSK scummy or anything?

muffin has not impressed me at all in the past few days either

well, that's unfortunate. i live and die for your approval

he doesn't worry that he's pushing through another mislynch here?

that's is really fucking worrying.

really?

[zMuffinMan]

is cabd the one posting right now?

[zMuffinMan]

Probably because we either townread him, or because you've not done enough to convince us to sheep you. Or both!

what is this?

you're voting for BRO, aren't you?

[zMuffinMan]

do you really believe my lack of activity has anything to do with this game?

what's your actual read on me?

[zMuffinMan]

you don't even think you're possibly doing it again?

this is a really, really weak question.

sure, it's

possible

i'm doing it again, but if i thought that was the case,

i wouldn't be voting him

.

but why is that specifically something that worries you about me? why does me being wrong about BRO in a previous game mean anything here?

[zMuffinMan]

how much are you talking to ffery about this game, cabd? or when was the last time you discussed reads?

and what's your read on BRO?

[zMuffinMan]

i'm about to sleep anyway and i was more interested in your answer, not hers.

[zMuffinMan]

what is your read on tne? and would you be willing to switch to the tne wagon?

thing is, if i wasn't reading BRO as scum, i'd probably be reading TNE as scum.

the initial like i had for TNE's play has long since faded and if BRO actually is town then TNE's contributions to the game so far amount to nothing but tunneling BRO and... nothing else i can really remember. but i don't think TNE is scum with BRO, and my read on BRO is stronger than my read on TNE.

@mastin,

where does your read on morph come from?

[zMuffinMan]

should i fakehammer?

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: BRO

[zMuffinMan]

now to wait for his reaction

[zMuffinMan]

this is not a town response to being hammered

[zMuffinMan]

Cabd told me he disagreed with me last night. I thought he was going to unvote while we sort ourselves out but he didn't.

when does this happen?

[zMuffinMan]

Aside from their softclaim and how they've been handling it, the overall vibe from their posting is definitely the town-them I'm used to seeing

what's the difference between town-them and scum-them?

because morph this game has felt off to me and i'm not really sure why so many people are town-reading them when nothing about their play has struck me as particularly town. they've been all over the place and kind of a mess, and i'm not seeing the sort of confident stances i'm used to seeing from the ffery head. it really feels like they've just been going with the flow of things for most of the game and trying not to draw much attention to themselves.

Plus, they've invoked a holy-Mastin tell of "I'm not used to you not townreading me" similar to you in Xenogears

if that's a holy tell for you, why was i never anywhere near your tier-1 town reads in xenogears?

he has nothing else to say besides a fake fakehammer, which doesn't even do anything?

is there something in particular you wanted me to comment on? i was fine with BRO being at L-1 and not much had happened that i felt was worth mentioning.

[zMuffinMan]

nothing specific, but can you explain why you chose that way to put him at L-1 plz?

wat

[zMuffinMan]

you are aware i've been voting BRO for a while now, right?

[zMuffinMan]

So yeah, a BRO vote please so I can hammer his scumbutt

wait for aa9 to read the game

[zMuffinMan]

please shut the fuck up about this stuff btw i'm not interested in hearing about how bad a player AA9 is.

read the game already and stop posting useless shit

[zMuffinMan]

yeah i'm starting to realise that now

[zMuffinMan]

if i were in full paranoia mode, i'd say it's entirely possible that mafiaSSK's death had something to do with the flavour claim rather than a dayvig, but i'm pretty sure pieguy is town here so it's not something i'm thinking too deeply about atm.

[zMuffinMan]

You are aware of at least a couple of the games that took some of the starch out of my confidence recently

if you're talking about your read on me here, then OK, fine. i don't particularly mind that you have trouble reading me, but i do think it's strange that you've been almost bipolar on your read on me this game and it seems to change from one post to the next.

but what recent games caused a confidence hit in, say, your ability to read mastin or mac or ghostlin or anyone that isn't me, really? because i don't really care how confident you are in your ability to read me, but you've apparently had issues with getting any strong reads for most of the game. and most of the time when you do give reads, it looks more like you're going with the general consensus than trying to form your own opinions.

[zMuffinMan]

Why would there be a town flavor cop in a game where claiming your flavor is a bad idea?

[zMuffinMan]

I will hammer much closer to deadline, but only to prevent mislynch and I won't be thrilled about it.

no lynch?

[zMuffinMan]

i didn't even understand what your point was until just now rofl

do you actually think that means anything?

[zMuffinMan]

Am I imagining things, or are you lower key this game for some reason?

i probably have been. the last week or so has been shit for my free time. you would be about the 5th person to point this out

how could it mean anything else

i thought you were confused, actually *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

Enough. If you're town this is so antitown I'll mark it down as one of the best policy lynches I've had to do ever.

which head posted this?

[zMuffinMan]

wayne is scum and needs to be lynched asap

please, no

if you really wanna take issue with wayne, do it you're both still alive tomorrow

today we lynch BRO

he claimed a fucking flavour cop in a game where flavour claiming is not a good idea. how is that a town role?

Why the fuck does it matter?

i'm recalling something one of you said early in the game about policy lynching that made me double-take reading that

[zMuffinMan]

who posted these?

I would prefer to keep my policy lynch virginity intact

But but but muffin-kun; I'm scared. I hear the first time hurts? ...maybe if it's you. You won't make it hurt, will you?

[zMuffinMan]

i realise you were partially joking, but the impression i got from that is that you hated policy lynching

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler:

[zMuffinMan]

I'm the one in this hydra who hates policy lynches. Me. ffery.

you seem fine with it

Are you thinking that Wayne's pulling a last minute crazy thing to keep BRO in the game one night?

i don't actually see what's so wrong with his recent posts that warrants a last-minute policy lynch

explain it to me like you think i'm dumb (if you don't already)

[zMuffinMan]

why are you trying to get lynched

[zMuffinMan]

Go back and look at pie's post

i did. it's the sort of thing i probably would have skipped over or not bothered correcting so i don't see the issue

I think wayne is scum here that fumbled his claim

have you

ever

seen someone forget what they fake-claimed? like... ever? because i don't think i have.

[zMuffinMan]

like i've seen inconsistencies before, but generally someone doesn't forget what they fake-claimed

[zMuffinMan]

*Saying he claimed Night 2 infinite shot Watcher after Varsoon claimed superdoc. This wouldn't have been a hard thing to check as either alignment, but he doubles down on what can only seem like a lie. I'm saying Town would of been more likely to not be glib.

what does this even mean?

*The 'oh, oh, it was maybe a gambit' walk back. If you're going to counterclaim BRO, counterclaim BRO; don't do both claim it was a gambit and then seemingly want BRO lynched.

he wasn't counter-claiming? did i miss something here?

*Partially setup spec: if it's potentially fatal to claim a role in this game, such a thing might be symmetrical.

what does this even mean?

*Wayne's role oddly has more reason to draw Var's attention and considering the timing of both posts..

what does this even mean?

[zMuffinMan]

Just think of me as K at the World Fair

i don't hang with the cool crowd so i don't know what this is a reference to

Where does it say that it's objectively bad? All I see is that there's a risk to flavor claiming (ie, that it can hurt, but won't necessarily)

. . . . .

[zMuffinMan]

o wait, wait, i have the perfect image for my thoughts on the recent happenings hold on

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler:

[zMuffinMan]

your face is a risk

[zMuffinMan]

zmuffin why aren't you voting wayne

actually. true story. wayne and BRO swapped accounts about 10 minutes ago, so if you want to lynch wayne, you're going to have to vote BRO

technically i'm one of the only players actually voting wayne right now

you should join me

[zMuffinMan]

The lies were what sold it for me

what lies?

[zMuffinMan]

i think the "maybe i'm just trying to draw the NK" thing was meant more as a mindfuck to scum than anything so i don't see where he lied

[zMuffinMan]

probably still a n2 onward watcher

[zMuffinMan]

i think the not affirming being a cop thing was an oversight, the maybe i'm trying to draw the kill thing was a mindfuck for scum, i don't even know what the ffery thing means and i don't think he ever said "kill me" although i do think he probably realised his lynch woeuld be an inevitability.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm pretty sure that was the hammer

[zMuffinMan]

[7] waynegg (pieguyn, Morph the Cat, Ghostly Penguin, thenewearth, BROseidon, Varsoon, Psychlone)
[2] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2)
[1] thenewearth (Mac)


[2] Not Voting (ArcAngel9, waynegg)

yep

[zMuffinMan]

whatever

[zMuffinMan]

Govern: waynegg

[zMuffinMan]

none of those were gotcha things

but i hope i'm very, very wrong here

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Vote: BRO

[zMuffinMan]

what the fuck is nitori doing in imperishable night, anyway?

morph and BRO are not scum together. if that's the case, her vote on wayne would probably be towards saving BRO, but she was all in on riding the BRO wagon till wayne popped up, so I don't think she was trying to save BRO here. that conditionally clears morph as long as BRO is scum

i came to the exact opposite conclusion. morph was reluctant to vote BRO and then wayne popped up.

[zMuffinMan]

it wasn't because i put him at L-1 (i didn't do that anyway) but yes. and then they were reluctant to put their vote back on him.

[zMuffinMan]

...

[zMuffinMan]

the reasoning for that vote is awful

how much of the thread have you read?

[zMuffinMan]

we should mass claim today

I'm assuming AA9 is town for now, even though she hasn't flipped

meh. i'm sorta paranoid about AA9 because the only thing she's really done so far is argue with BRO.

i was reading through yesterday and my first thought was that BRO doing what he did with AA9 was a really odd move if AA9 is town, unless he was hoping for a mislynch to happen. and if that's the case, then where was his backup? unless scum were absent during the day (e.g. GP, TNE and kinda mac since he didn't really post after the very beginning of the day), what do you think the point of BRO's 1v1 with AA9 was?

i wanna go back and do some reading but i noticed one wagon you left out is the varsoon wagon that happened (probably because bork wasn't around the time and it wasn't included in the votecounts)

[zMuffinMan]

@AA9,

did you do

any

reading last night?

[zMuffinMan]

[5] MafiaSSK (zMuffinMan, BROseidon, Psychlone, thezmon221, Morph the Cat)

if AA9 is town here, it wouldn't surprise me if there's no other scum on this wagon. i was kind of in agreement with mastin's analysis here that it's far more likely scum wanted to avoid this wagon like the plague and not dirty their hands.

[7] waynegg (pieguyn, Morph the Cat, Ghostly Penguin, thenewearth, BROseidon, Varsoon, Psychlone)

no way in hell this was a town-driven counter-wagon. if there's only one more scum here, it's likely one of GP and TNE. i really disliked the way both of them hopped onto this wagon.

who do you think bussed BRO? if no one, why do you think that's the case?

if AA9 is scum, then that answers this question. if she's town, then i dunno. the day went pretty quick. if 2 of {mac, GP, TNE} are scum, then they didn't really have the opportunity to bus

why would TNE-scum neighborize Mac who's been on him pretty much the whole game?

why would TNE-town do that?

[zMuffinMan]

[4] Varsoon (Mac, pieguyn, Morph the Cat, waynegg)
[3] BROseidon (zMuffinMan, mastin2, thenewearth)
[2] mastin2 (Psychlone, BROseidon)
[1] Mac (Varsoon)

[2] Not Voting (Ghostly Penguin, thezmon221)

the height of the varsoon wagon prior to him claiming (somewhere around p51)

[zMuffinMan]

why didn't you mention giffycho at all here?

i think i explained it

they could be scum, i guess, but they wouldn't be my first choice

[zMuffinMan]

probably to score a mislynch on his way out

the thing is, that was likely not happening without support from his partners, so where do you think his partners were in all this?

I get the feeling scum was certain he'd be lynched anyway, and so he did something ridiculous just to at least have a chance to do something.

the smart thing to do there would have been to shut the fuck up and say nothing and maybe try to score some town cred for one or both of his partners on the way done.

that's the main reason i'm paranoid about AA9 at the moment

[zMuffinMan]

here's another question: do you think what BRO did yesterday was off the cuff or planned?

i think it was planned

[zMuffinMan]

you've never explained your townread on giffycho anywhere

it initially came from the tone of their early posts, but i also think the way they've approached this game in general is town trying to figure shit out. there's various points throughout the game where i remember thinking i didn't see any scum motivation in the way they've approached things. as a quick example without ISOing, the exchange i had with them at the end of D1 (particularly what they said about their read on me) made me think town

i may go through their ISO again tonight and pull up other examples

what don't you like about them?

why do you think we should massclaim today?

because i want all the claims on the table sooner rather than later

and if we mislynch today, i don't want a mass claim happening at lylo

not to mention you had mentioned thez's reaction to my fake shot was town. was it really just paranoia on AA9 that changed your opinion on the slot?

pretty much

[zMuffinMan]

like it's not even really that i'm scum reading AA9 right now. it's more a gut ping than anything because BRO's actions yesterday were strange

especially if that was something pre-planned

[zMuffinMan]

i think a lot of them not "pushing" people comes from their lack of activity

you're approaching wagon analysis incorrectly if you're looking at how much someone was on major wagons (in general, scum want to avoid major wagons if they can)

and meh. i'm not going to rule out the possibility that they're scum and their jump onto BRO was a bus but i'm not as wary of them as i am of others atm

why did you decide on D1 that wayne should be left till D2?

is this referring to when i tried to derail the wayne wagon after BRO claimed flavour cop?

[zMuffinMan]

i was under the impression their inactivity was site-wide. at least that's what i remember morph saying at some point

as for wayne, that's mostly theory. i don't lynch claimed PRs D1 unless i have good reason to think they're lying or the alternative wagons are just shit and i really think they're scum *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

The problem with nachogif is lack of content, but they both have reasons they can't post much atm and it's a site-wide thing. GiF just replaced out of a ton of games a couple days ago, and Nacho's laptop was stolen.

[zMuffinMan]

his jump onto the wayne wagon

[zMuffinMan]

even apart from not liking the way he jumped onto the wayne wagon, i don't understand how TNE goes from being all over BRO for the entirety of D1 to being like, "sup, wayne lynch? yeah i'm down with that!"

[zMuffinMan]

(TNE this doesn't mean you're off the hook)

The feeling is mutual

also i thought this was odd

[zMuffinMan]

until then he seemed to be all in on riding the BRO wagon

exactly my point

[zMuffinMan]

does anyone have a good reason not to mass claim today? can people say whether they're for or against it and why?

[zMuffinMan]

yuck. if we weren't one mislynch away from lylo i'd want you all to policy lynch me so i'm not a liability, assuming i make it that far. but the show must go on

why would you even say something like this?

[zMuffinMan]

can you elaborate on your thoughts on that quote plz?

seems forced

i don't understand why he felt the need to say that

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, fuck it.

Vote: Mac

[zMuffinMan]

hm

[zMuffinMan]

i didn't actually see psychlone's vote but i don't feel all that bad about it anyway

[zMuffinMan]

unless you both are scum and this was really LYLO

how would today be lylo unless 3 scum?

[zMuffinMan]

nah

for some reason psychlone's post didn't come up on preview

[zMuffinMan]

plus if i actually were scum and this was the end of the game i would have come right out and admitted it by now. i tend not to be a dick in postgame

it was just an accident but really, mac is probably scum so i don't feel too bad about it